4 Methods To Run Radiant Heat PEX Pipe
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
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I've had radiant, in floor heat for 22 years with a concrete over pour method and seven zones in eastern Canada. The floors are finished with ceramic tile and parquet flooring and I have recently converted from oil fired boiler to an air to water heat pump. To say I love it is an understatement and it works best if you set your thermostats and leave them. When your feet are warm; you are warm.
Hey Barry, do you mind telling me what kind of air to water heat pump you're using? I'm in Manitoba about to build and I'm still debating between electric boiler or heat pump.
Sounds dreamy even in Texas 😂
Hi Barry, I second Drew's question. I'm also keen to hear who you've gone with. I want to do the same in my home and I'm just a bit hesitant as air to water heat pumps are uncommon, let alone for a radiant system. Currently looking Arctic's units.
@@adamdouglas8786 I'm looking to do same, hopefully Barry can get back to us. Have you looked at a company called Arctic? They have a line of air to water heat pumps.
I installed mine...on my hands and knees 20 years ago using all Wirsbo..soon to be then Uponor pexA and hardware. I had a convertible Buderus boiler that started on oil and now is NG. 1600SF main floor...9 zones 100percent coverage and 5 zone poured slab 1600 sf basement over 4 inch dense foam. Living space is the plywood track system and Brazilian Cherry over it. It costs about $900 to heat main floor to 71 and basement to 60...in SE MASSACHUSETTS. I havent done a SINGLE thing to it...no pump, tubing, electric issues at all. I have solar panels but it just covers 100percent of my electric bill. The air to water heat pumps are notorious for malfunction and nobody wants to touch them for repair. Anyone else have feedback for heat pumps?
I would love to see a complete video on setting up a full system. Sizing boiler, parts needed, etc. I love the idea of radiant heat
Let me see if I can do that!
Look at warmboard. Great product.
@@buildshow Hey Matt, it would be good also to rate the most efficient system embedments
IE heat draw on the boiler of a concrete insulated slab vs aluminum dispersion plates and the channeled wood product. Which one is the best bang for the buck.
Ditto. Do it with no gas appliances please! Air to water heat pump please.
There are loads of full system buolds on RUclips...and loads of DIY ones for the very brave..
For me, the ideas in ruclips.net/user/postUgkxAfqpMLyFn37qcqUl0FAzqkkycQeXqrhP Plans were a starting point for building different sheds . Ryan gives ideas that allow an individual to draw nicest conclusions into the design and building of his or her own shed.
I built my own in floor system in my house (110 years old) here in New Jersey. I read Modern Hydronic Heating by John Siegenthaler, without this book it would have been impossible to get this done.
I'm not a plumber, I'm just a crafty home owner. I watched every video I could find on the subject as well as read most of John's book. Empowered with all this knowledge I decided I would get all the bang for the buck I paid for my Tankless Hot Water Heater.
I used John's book to assist me in teaching Hydronics in central Saskatchewan, Great book.
So yours is powered by a tankless? I really want to do this in my future home, didn’t know I could do it with a tankless
@@ToastyCoronet There's what's called a tankless "Combi Boiler" which has separate plumbing for DHW and Hydronic loops. Rinnai and other companies make these.
In the Nordic countries, Uponor is a Finnish company, I myself live in Sweden, almost all new homes are built with radiant heating or underfloor heating as we call it. most often the pipes are cast into the concrete slab. the cost is not higher than for conventional heating systems - heating via wall-mounted radiators. Even when renovating old houses, radiant heating is often the first choice. My wife and I installed Uponor's underfloor heating in our 100 year old house - in all eight rooms. Yes we did it ourselves. So easy. An advantage is the low flow temperatures. When the outdoor temperature is 15 degrees Fahrenheit, a flow temperature of 100 Fahrenheit is sufficient. Perfect for heat pump. The disadvantage is of course that the system is not suitable for cooling during the hot days of the year. But, you can not get everything.
I remodeled a home that had radiant floor heat installed by the builder. It was red Pex B attached with regular j-hook to each side of the joist flange where it meets the subfloor of the main floor. Basement below. Much of the tubing was sagging into the joist cavity. According to the homeowner the system works great and comfortably heats the upstairs evenly with the furnace rarely running and only in the coldest months of the year. Zone 6.
When I lived in Germany in the 80s, I had in-floor heat (at the time I believed they were metal pipes) but the bathroom was where this really was fantastic. The bathroom was huge by German standards, the tub and shower area was separate from the sink and toilet area, but in the same room, with half walls. The floor and walls of the tub and shower area were piped with this radiant heat. This made the cast iron tub warm all winter long. It also meant that my then-girlfriend could stay in the tub forever because it took a lot longer for the water to cool off.
I’ve gone to Uponor PexA and expansion fittings-super easy, consistent and repeatable. The freeze protection is also great with any PEX product. Also no clunky baseboards that fall apart over time.
Worked in a smallish shop/warehouse with radiant heat. It was amazing!! I had to pull in pickups and trailers to load and the drivers loved it because it quickly warmed the metal deck so the cold didn't hurt your hands, the other forced air heated building the trailer would be loaded before it started to not be frozen. The outside temps were -10F for a month or so.
PLEASE do an update piece on the effectiveness of radiant COOLING! You covered it briefly years ago with a company in Austin but it could well be the future of more efficient cooling over conventional HVAC.
I still have high hopes for Radiant Cooling but I’ve not seen an actual install. I think the hurdle is a chiller for a residential setting isn’t common. Have you heard of any installs?
@@buildshow your pals at Positive Energy in Austin which you did the previous piece about it with can probably point you in the right direction and if not, go directly to the source and maybe do a video with Messana who seem to be one of the biggest in radiant cooling and heating systems.
I am sure they’d LOVE to feature in one of your vids and show you around a project.
From reading around the internet, radiant cooling would cause a lot of condensation
@@mikecousin8523 exactly and presumably if you’re going to use radiant cooling in the first place, you’re going to be controlling the air coming in and out of the house and thus the humidity.
I believe Messana actually has an ERV that can also dehumidify as well.
@@buildshow I haven't seen any homes with it in person, but I've definitely looked into radiant cooling. PLEASE make another video (or video series 🤞) going into the intricacies and tech specs thereof.
Personally, I'm most interested in efficiency vs conventional HVAC, if you can get away with hufft radiant ceilings and floors (I'm concerned about walls being damaged and that damaging the system), spot heating/cooling (like behind hot appliances [oven, fridge] or in a bathroom), and integration with an existing home water heater/solar water heat.
We have used the Climate Panel (Quik Trac) behind mirrors in the bathrooms. Works great keeping the steam off the mirror.
Great video! What I also like about radiant compared to a forced-air system is that it does not dry out the air and affect humidity.
Great video as always. Quick video editing tip for interviews though: have your editor remove the audio track from the person that isn't speaking. Otherwise, we can hear you breathe (that SM7b is real sensitive!).
Weezy Matt for sure
Omg hi Legal Eagle!!! Fancy seeing you here
Question: At what degree of heat would the heat source would operate on for infloor heat? For instance, I have a baseboard radiator system I found running my furnace at 190 Fahrenheit works best for me.
Thanks for another informative video. I think leaving out a product like WarmBoard-- especially in new construction, was a miss. It's a sub-floor and a "host" for the PEX in one shot. Another thing I think could have added more value was discussing mixed systems. For example, how (or when) to integrate radiant with a more traditional HVAC system so the homeowner can also have A/C, air filtering, and/or dehumidification in summer.
Ummm you're talking about Matt's Sponsored Content Build Show... Why would he do that? Go look for what you want instead of complaining about what he didn't show lol don't you know how this stuff works?
Here in the north radiant allows one to use low temperature water, making air2water heat pumps a viable option. There are only a few US manufacturers now, but a lot of the big brands offer these over seas. I’d love to hear some coverage on that topic from MN.
Me too. Its the breakdowns that kill it...their reliability isnt great.
I'm not a builder and have no intention of ever being one but I have to admit I enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from them. They allow me to better understand the options and make better decisions about future home upgrades. Keep up the great work!
Great to hear of putting these in the wall or ceiling from an installer. They talked about it in the Hydronic Heating book, and we had electric radiant heat in the ceiling of a condo. There's also other panels that are routed out with foil in them already, previously at about a buck a square foot. They can bring the added height down to 3/4", and maybe less if switching from a carpet and pad to something else.
I experienced this type of heating at Prayer Mountain in South Korea. It was absolutely brilliant in minus 20 degrees. It made a very rough winter fabulous.
you look caucasian, and if you don't mind me asking , what country are you in now
"Underfloor Heating" was invented by "Frank Lloyd Wright". He called it "Gravity Heating" for some odd reason.
But, Frank Lloyd Wright got the idea, when he visited Japan during the construction of "Imperial Hotel" in Tokyo.
Where he was invited to "Korean House" which belong to the CEO of that Imperial Hotel.
"Korean House" was "Crown Prince of Korea's Quarter" that was sold to the CEO in an Auction when Japan dismantled Korean Palace.
@@davidjacobs8558 underfloor heating was invented by ancient romans.
They used thermal water to warm floor in pubblic Buildings and private houses (and obviousley the baths)
@@zarbonida Yes, but for some odd reason, Frank Lloyd Wright was unaware of the Ancient Roman Under Floor Heating.
Probably because he started his career as a draftsman, and did not get proper education as an Architect. or perhaps, education system for Architects was not as structured back then, and was mostly Master to Apprentice thing ?
I see a lot of questions about infloor radiant and geothermal. I've left comments on other comments.
But here is what I have built.
I had a contractor put up the outside of my shop/house. 2400sqft of shop and storage downstairs. 1000sqft of living space upstairs. I did everything inside. Almost all by myself. Including wiring, plumbing, insulation, drywall, (Except mud) installing geothermal unit and pumps. Passed all inspections first time.
I have geothermal, solar panels 10,080 watts and r29 walls r65 ceilings. 6 zones infloor heat 3 zones inslab in the lower shop. 2400sqft. I installed the insulation 2" outside the footings/ frost walls 2" inside with 45°cut on the top. So you won't see the insulation between the footings and the slab. 2" under the slab. I made the manifolds and installed the pex. Before slab was poured. Had contractor install warmboard subfloor for upstairs. 3 zones upstairs 1000sqft. I ran all the pexalpex. Snapped into the warmboard subfloor. 6 loops to stainless manifold provided by warmboard. I have a pump to each zone. Instead of actuators.
I used chilled water fan coils for cooling. Chilled water provided by the geothermal heat pump. Chilled water fan coils condense the humidity out of the air. Just like a split system AC unit. So you don't have to worry about condensation. Like you would with radiant cooling floors, walls, ceiling. I don't think cold feet are ever desirable.
They have flush mounted fan coils. If you don't like the looks of split systems. I keep all 3400sqft as warm or as cool as I want all the time. Zero bills. I live in Wisconsin.
Because I have living space over my shop. Radiant is the only way to go. Because the living space has to be 100 percent sealed off from fumes from the shop. Running for a little over 2 years now. Love having warm floors even in the walk in shower.
I forgot to say I also built manifolds. And installed the insulation and pex before having the 8000sqft of concrete poured for my driveway. I'm using radiant solar to heat my driveway. Will be installing 12 4×10 solar hot water panels this summer. Stated 170,000 btus.
Me being a forklift driver. Have accidentally designed and self built a Net Zero shop/house.
We used this in the upper levels of our home. Ours is on a styrofoam substrate that has mechanical points where the PEX is routed through. The lightweight cement/ grout has a perlite aggregate to keep the weight down. They have added chopped fiberglass and a latex based liquid to maintain flexibility and prevent cracking of the cement mixture. There is also a 1/4” flexible foam perimeter that must be laid in to isolate the floor from the walls and allow for expansion. We used the ROTEX system from Germany. Maximum operating temperature of the system is 40° Celsius. This was installed 16 years ago as the upper levels of the home were completed. Best investment we made for heating. No intrusive radiators to mess with furniture placement. One issue is they recommend that no floor coverings be used since it will prohibit the exchange of heat. Method 1 provides zero isolation to the substrate under the the stick in place guides. Our primary heat source is a fireplace boiler where temperatures vary from 40° to 80° Celsius so it was necessary to install water heat exchangers to limit the temperature to the radiant system in the upper levels. Also in the mix there is a three way auto valve preset to 40° to protect the radiant system in the upper levels. There are four zones,three bedrooms and the main living area. With a smart panel controlling times of day one can preset temperature of each zone and the smart system will enable the zones according to the time of day with a manual override for each zone. This is accomplished with a PLC so the need for a computer running 24/7 is not needed. It also takes into account the exterior temperature. Since we are in the south eastern Mediterranean my goal is to add additional solar heating arrays to start preheating the floors as soon as outdoor temperatures. Start dropping late fall.
i love the little bit of science "more energy via water" as a selling point, but also the comfort is the big advantage of radiant. It's so unfortunate the true benefits of radiant didn't take hold earlier - the idea and the sceince has been around for a long time. I think we could have saved an unimaginable amount of energy (i.e $ in heating bills) and a lot more people would have been more comfortable in their homes. I remember as a kid, circa 1974, sitting in front of the heat vent, window curtains draped over me to capture all the heat, just waiting (and maybe praying a little), for the at furnace to kick in and blast me with glorious warmth just to beat that morning chill! As an adult in '94, I bought and renovated a 1952 built Wisconsin home that was originally built with a "radiant slab ceiling" - 1.5" concrete/plaster mix in wire mesh w/1/2" copper tubing imbedded. Even though it was top-down (heat rises, so won't that make it ineffective?), that radiant slab was so-o-o-so satisfyingly even and comfortable in the heating months. Was economically efficient, too, heating bills were the lowest I've ever experienced. Had lived in forced air, hydronic and electric baseboard, and old-school cast-iron radiator - all of these in the northern great lakes region, 60" frost line and all, so real cold in the deep winter months. The radiant was palpably more comfortable in all conditions - no comparison. I imagine it was a substantial increase in construction cost in 1952 over conventional systems at that time, and I would guess adoption of a "new" superior technology was stymied by misinformation, status quo thinking, fear of the "new and untested", and probably some commercial interests that didn't want to see their customers changing the items on the standard purchase order. But, God -once you felt that even and consistent heat, and knew your children would never need to cloak yourself in window drapes and pray for the thermostat to kick in, you'd think it would have gained a little more traction. Back in '94 I was working in the residential construction trades in carpentry, and radiant of any kind was still only popping up occasionally as a novelty.
I'd say Warm Board is another product worth a look for this, a lot like quick track but way better Just did a big renovation on a place and used that. It was easy to install because every panel was mapped out with blank panels for under cabinets etc. The entire top is aluminum, unless you have to do a custom route in a few spots which is normal but it's just no aluminum under the tubing so not a big deal. The entire system was very reasonably priced too. Hahaa, I'm not paid to say that but I would recommend that system, customer service is great too. Take care
Agreed. Plus they do a design/build type setup with plans and zones speced and ready to go.
Matt is not talking about it but on the build show network they actually have a video about it
ruclips.net/video/c9_H_X9cY2o/видео.html
I used Warmboard (and their design services) in our new build construction six years ago and love it. We used an engineered hardwood over the Warmboard subfloor. For the hot water source, we used a Navien combi boilder for both the domestic hot water and the radiant. Works (and feels) great.
The general building contractor wasn't experienced with Warmboard, or even radiant heat, but the plumber was and it worked out very easily.
I used warmboard in my house. Awesome stuff. I heat and cool with geothermal. Use chilled water fan coils for cooling. Solar for power 10,080 watts. Keep house above. And 2400sqft shop and storage below. As hot as I want all winter. And as cold as I want all summer. All 3400sqft. Zero bills. House all electric.
I want to build an ICF ranch style in North Dakota with hydronic in floor heat.
When those 80 MPH blizzards hit at -40F can't go wrong with the thermal mass and sealed envelope of ICF.
Walking on a nice warm floor is one heck of a luxury. In February.
In Minnesota, south of Eric. Warmboard is very comfortable. Remember you need R20 under the floor and good air sealing for radiant to work correctly! Micro-zoning also helps comfort.
Just installed last week, full infloor with hydro foam from nudura, uponor manifolds and 1/2 lines. Ontario Canada.
Just built our new house with in concrete floor radient system. Used a Cross Manifold system (no solenoid valve) and every room has its own zone. Very comfortable and quiet. Currently using a microboiler with buffer tank, but one day we'll add a ground source heat pump and get both heating and cooling and only use the boiler as a backup.
I installed my own radiant floor system in 2003 in Western North Carolina. I have since sold the home and plan to build again within the next year. The source of heat came from an outdoor wood fired boiler in conjunction with a high efficiency natural gas water heater.
First off... radiant floor heat is pure luxury. I have lived with forced air systems in the past, just as most of us have, but radiant floor heat has a comfort to it that you cannot obtain with a forced air system. With that said, my next home will include both systems. The reason being is that radiant floor heat is obviously for heating and not for cooling, so a forced air system will provide the cooling aspect during the warmer months. I had no forced air system in my first build because I was located at 3,000 feet elevation, so summers were generally mild and rarely required cooling.
What I look forward to in my next home is having both systems, the comfort of radiant floor heat and the cooling ability of a forced air system along with the added ability for the forced air system to provide the heating in the fall when the temps begin to drop and you only need a little heat in the evening and at the beginning of spring when the days begin to warm again. With radiant floor heat using the concrete slab as its heat exchanger it is not as quick to respond as a forced air system would be. In the spring and fall when you need better heat/no-heat control, radiant floor heat takes awhile to heat up and cool down, sometimes by as much as several hours. So, in my opinion, radiant floor heat is indeed a luxury item and expense, but worth it in the dead of winter when you need a consistent comfortable heat source.
Awesome Video Matt I would love to see more like these specifically about Radiant Heating and Cooling! Keep up the excellent work
This is definitely a subject I'm interested in. We are building a new house that's not being built in traditional methods. Radiant heat is one of the most efficient and easiest methods I could think of to use. Gas fireplaces or heaters for each room in use was first consideration, but for ease of installation and use I pretty much ruled it out. Quick-track seems the most versatile idea to use. Ease of installation on different planes of the rooms. Floors, walls, or ceilings, doesn't matter. Have to show my wife this video so she can wrap her mind around the concept. Thanks a lot for sharing this information with us!
I like the idea of using this as essentially wainscoting on a remodel. It would also be interesting to see this used in combination with a geothermal heating/cooling set-up.
I think wainscoting is a good plan
Yes, radiant with geothermal is definitely the way. If you got the land that is
@@jwristen24 and/or a pond
Yes! I'd like to see any discussion on multiple heat sources working in combination.
@@Lumbeelegend You could go vertical for geothermal if you're on a smaller lot. I've seen some installations where they did that.
Matt and Eric,
Wow! Radiant heating in the wainscoting, I never thought of that! Since I'm concerted about allergies, I guess my ERV could handle the air filtering to remove dust??? Man, I love the quiet aspects.
If you do need AC, then I guess that is when it becomes expensive compared to mini-splits???
Cheers,
Eric
As a last step of installation (or on first use) don't miss to do a heating hydraulic balancing of your system by tuning in the flow valves. It's like tuning the strings on a guitar. Similar procedures like on a duct system balancing the air flow.
Thank you for interviewing an expert that has in field knowledge.
If you have a concrete floor and you do not want to raise it, you can mill the pex into the cement screed. Then cover with flexible shrink-free mortar. We do this a lot in the Netherlands.
Was in radiant industry for long time, primarily high end homes. It’s fantastic heat. Radiant cooling is difficult due to condensation, you can do it but as simple as using cold water.
Radiant cooling is nice but you need a dehumidification system too...in damp climates.
I was just going to ask about using it in place of an A/C in warmer climates.
If you're using a heat pump. Like I have with my geothermal system. Just use chilled water fan coils. They condense the humidity out. Just like a split system ac unit . If you don't like the looks of a split system. They make flush mount fan coils.
To me the hardest and most important part of a radiant system is getting the water right. So you don't have problems a few years down the road.
@@danmccoy6164 it wont condense much water until the lines are pretty cold. In damp climates you need dehumidification
Eric is a great guy. Superb edition to your channel.
Agree! He’s awesome
@@buildshow replacing Baczek as my fav isn't likely tho. 😀
@MattRisinger
You touched on all the basic questions I wanted to ask, even regarding ceiling and walls for retrofit... I have a very small house in Cen.TX. electricity and gas are expensive too get there. I believe this style of heating, and maybe even cooling would be beneficial as I renovate the property.
Thanks for your RUclips show!
I have radiant heat downstairs in the slab and it's fantastic and it's so simple to set up. I have oil and electric(solar) to heat the water. When you are doing it, I'd recommend putting and electrical element (I have 3kw) in the loop just incase the primary oil, gas or heat pump heater packs up.
Matt,
I want to thank you very much for this weeks video post. I have always been a fan of this type of heating. But my home was too far into the build to change the way it is heated. However when you mentioned using the side walls that opened a whole new way to use the hot water heating. My first job was with an electrical contractor. At that time electric heat in the ceiling was being used. I also remember if a drywall contractor wasn't careful it could be a real mess tearing it all out and starting over. Over the years that type of heating faded away. I like the in floor method better.
Thank you
I live in north Texas have radiant heat in my bathroom floor. Omg I Love waking in there, in just socks on a cold winter day. It changes my mood instantly. I Wish my living room had it too.
Love my radiant remodel with the alluminum plates under the floor. I have it setup for 6 zones in our house. 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms and the common area of the house. It is only a year old but have been out proforming the new HE forced air furnace my son has across the street is a slightly smaller house.
Really like This. Especially the notes about ceiling and wall implementation heating and cooling.
I do so love you're videos even if it's something I don't think I'll ever use. It's really nice to see what is out there for options in today's market. Thanks for the info.
I have 9' ceilings, so i used the top 1' of the interior walls for the pipe. I run the pipe in loops through the wall so one 250' loop serves two rooms. Also, i use pex-al-pex because it does not move/expand very much with the hot water.
I've never heard of this before, it just blows my mind that there's always a better way to do things. People can be really clever. I'm definitely keeping this one in mind.
Would just like to preface that I'm a consumer! I've really only experienced in-floor radiant heat at my job which is an assisted living home. I hate it 🤷♀️ the residents don't particularly seem to enjoy it either. That being said I think it's a fairly old system that needs a lot of tweaking. The several thermostats (zones) are never in sync (some are too hot and others freezing) and my feet were always sweating while I often had to wear a sweater for my upper body. I work on the floor running around on 12 hour shifts as well as in the office mostly sitting for 8 hours. Located in south dakota so we get pretty cold winters. The worst time is switching in the spring and fall, can never find a comfortable temperature. I will say in-building humidity is much better with the radiant heat versus forced air. Not to say that it can't get dry but it's generally alot more comfortable where humidity is concerned. I would be interested for my basement master bathroom though. Just not impressed with it being used as the only heating system in a commercial 40 bed living facility, but again that may be due to age of the system and trying to please several different people because there is generally 2-3 "bedrooms" in one zone and our residents do range in age from 50's to 80's +
Would love to see if you know anyone who did this system with the cooling added into it as well.
Would be quite nice to see videos on the cooling side of it not just heating.
Hi Matt,
My family is one of the inventors of the modern Tackersystems like the one you showed in the video and the Tackergun you had on your Desk, next time at the AHR maybe we can meet when I am in the US again (did not see you in Vegas Unfortunatly) greetings from Switzerland
There was this set of stairs, on This Old House, that needed heating, but they couldn't install radiant in the floor of them, and forced air couldn't work for them. As a result, they used the wall mount method, there, for the radiant heating in the stair well. It was Kevin O'Connor's first Project on TOH, I think.
Take a look at UltraFin. Tubes suspended with heat fins attached. No mixing down required as it is the air space that is heated rather than direct contact with subfloor.
Here in Finland we don't do any connection inside wall, ceiling or floor all connections is visible and if something happen to leak you see it. Also all pipes are run into sleeve so if pipe somehow leaks it leaks into sleeve and runs out other end which is also visible. And usually those manifolds are placed room where is drain so IF something leak it will leak into drain so very small possibility to get water damage to your house because way of install.
This is what I was wondering, I didn't get through the whole video yet, but I want to hear about the leak potential and what that looks like if it happens, it seems like this would be a real pain to diagnose while it is small.
@@mighty69r Depends what leak and why. I would say biggest cause of leaks is bad installation meaning some connection isn't tight as it should and eventually it leak, other reason might be failure in product itself.
But for sure if connection is inside a wall cavity and it starts leak, it can leak a long time before anyone notice it and then failures are much worse compared to connection is at visible you see it leaking quite fast and it doesn't cause barely any issue.
So I listened and you missed one more system. That is WARMBOARD. It's a 1 1/8" think plywood subfloor with an aluminum face and the tracks for the pex are routed and the aluminum pressed into them. I would love to have used it in my house but it would have added $20,000 to the cost of my 1500 SF home. None of the other methods other than Qucktrack would have worked for floor. I didn't look at using my walls or ceilings as radiators, probably would have been a good idea. I do have in floor in my basement and my garage. The basement is super comfortable. I keep my garage at 55 and that's great for keeping the cars comfortable and melting snow off of them. But my garage is also my shop. I'm working out there at 55 and find I'm never cold. Sometime's I'm laying on the concrete floor while building my truck. My home is a DELTEC and the nature of the construction uses a 5/8" plywood subfloor that is cut to follow the trusses that radiate from the center. Because there's no running bond, a second layer is layer over in a typical offset manner to tie the house together. On top of that I have 3/4" Hickory floors for a total floor thickness of 2". So first off, it's too thick to radiate from below and second, it's nearly impossible to run pex as the trusses are nearly solid as you get to the center of the house. In retrospect, I probably could have used WARMBOARD as it's structural and would have replaced the second layer of subfloor. I've found I don't need heat in my bedroom and the center of the house is pantry, laundry and closet. I could have used any 1 1/8" subfloor in those areas.
AC isn't a major factor where we live in the Black Hills of South Dakota. The nights here are typically cool so we can cool the house off overnight and close up during the hot days which are few. I've considered a mini split for the great room and master bedroom for those few days as well as an alternate to the electric radiant we use on the main floor.
AMVIC makes EPS foam board called AMPEX for new concrete slab on grade floors. The 4x2 foam interlocks and lies on the flat ground. There is a heat shrink surface which is the vapour barrier ( no poly layer required) and this surface friction fits the Pex tubing for radiant heating. The Pex is walked around the room and squished in between the discs on the top of the AMPEX, no staples , less labour install time. The pex is supported by ribs of the Ampex foam such that the pex tube is suspended in the concrete. The heat is only useful in the concrete, other products must loose heat into the product.
I’m considering something for an existing slab to use on top of --any links ?
In thoughts in how to remodel my current domicile I never thought of radiant heat being possible... but since I do have a crawl space I will insulate up down there. I see now that I can install radiant from the bottom side. I will look into that. Thanks 👍
5:49 That's just regular sill foam you're talking about around the walls. They just use tape or spray adhesive to hold it, then trim it after the lightweight concrete cures. Though I've seen some people leave it in place because it adds a little more thermal/insect barrier. They only trim it if it gets in the way of miter joints with the baseboard.
Great video, Matt! How do you think the Uponor flooring system compares to the Warm Board retrofit system that you looked at in a previous video in one of Steve's builds? Any idea about cost comparison between the two? I'm remodeling a small cabin that only has a wood burner and one electric baseboard heater, I think one of those systems would be great for a retrofit!
I've been in radiant spaces, they're wonderfully comfortable. But I get the willies about running water tubes all through my the house. I hoped that the video would address leaks, damage, failure modes, repairs etc. I mean, everything fails at some point either catastrophically or in an insidious silent fashion. Would love to hear about that side of radiant.
after 32yrs of placing different heating solutions in homes built and remodeled the system with the most balanced characteristics has been hydronic heat run thru radiators. in floor is great but adds costs in materials and labor that usually pushes it out of reach. lifetime costs and service challenges are lower with room radiators and the overall system is simpler and requires less space. warm floors are amazing but in america they are a long way from affordable.
Great video for exploring options! Any way you could do one on radiant cooling next?
Matt is in an area with such high humidity levels, there ceilings and walls would become mosquito infested water falls
Stainless is taking over not just because it's far more corrosion resistant, but also because it's a lot less EROSION Corrosion resistant.
When I was a self-employed Handyman, I'd often have to cut a wall open to replace a copper pipe fitting where the pipe was not reamed, AND repair the pinhole that had formed about an inch from the end.
Turbulent water is no joke on something as soft as copper.
RUclipsr Got2Learn has a nice video on the subject.
Retrofit scenario: main floor is hardwood (actual hardwood, not engineered, not laminate) and ripping that out is *not* an option, but the basement has a drop ceiling so the underside of the main floor is easily accessible. Something like joist track (8:13) would be the obvious choice, but I have heard that hardwood floors can be easily damaged if they get too hot from below. How hot does the working fluid need to be for effective heating? How hot is too hot for hardwood, or is what I heard a myth?
Radiant used for actual heating is not an option for hardwood floors. Only floor warming is possible with hard wood floors because as you mentioned higher temperatures than floor warming (80-90° I believe) will damage the wood.
@@buttmankun Assuming those temperatures are in Fahrenheit, they are close to what I have read elsewhere, that 40 C (~105 F) is the highest one should subject hardwood to. Floor warming is all I am looking for though. Let the central forced air heating handle do most of the work, just give me something that makes the floors not chilly on winter mornings.
@@JonMartinYXD Agree with your 105°F under wood flooring. Installed a system for customer in 1998 that used 2 HP as stage 1 w/ defrost board lockout at about 40°F. HOT water radiant would start warming up at about 45°f also controlled by Stage 1. Stage 2 controlled 2 hot water coils in the 2 HP air handlers. Hot water (closed loop) was provided by HS Tarm multi fuel boiler (wood with gas back-up). Also DHW provided by water to water heat exchanger.
System had 9 zones that operated at 3 varying Temps. Purpose, outside temp and demand controlled boiler Temps.
Homeowner didn't have to do anything but build a fire if he wanted in cold winter months. Heart pine floor was limited by 3 way mix valve to 70% of radiant demand temp for rest of system. That maxed it out at about 105°. Always backed up by High temp HW fan coil as Stage 2/E Heat in HP air handlers.
Belt and Suspenders!😎😂🤣
If I built a new house I would be doing infloor heat period!!! Best heat ever. Both my dads houses have infloor heat and we put a coil in the wood burning fireplace that will heat the whole house via burning wood in the fireplace. With gas prices sky rocketing this is the middle finger you can give to your utility provider. Couple that with solar panels and your off grid.
Only downside is you need to still cool your house so you end up buying two systems. Infloor for heating and ductwork for cooling. Most of time this setup is 3 times the cost of a traditional scorched air setup.
I need to have Eric stop out at my place just west of Minneapolis - I am researching joist track to supplement heat my main floor to keep my feet warm (unfinished basement ceiling). Last week on his Instagram he was installing an Infrared garage heater after watching that I would like to replace my forced air garage heater with Infrared (preliminary sign off on that from my wife after ai told her it is more efficient… and we can likely sell our current heater). Now watching this that plastic track might be good for our basement to supplement heat. Curious how that system works with 1) no insulation under the slab and 2) moisture coming from the slab. Plus I think his dog Ringo knows I am watching and sounds like he is giving me a Beagle shout out in this video.
This was a great video. Very, very informative and timely for me, as im looking to replace an existing baseboard/boiler system with radiant. I'd like to see how geothermal can be used with a radiant system, and replace my antique boiler. I'm in UP of Michigan, so efficient heat is essential.
I'm in the UP also, and looking to retrofit a 1970's addition with radiant floors (connected to a 1930"s main-home with efficient forced air). Local installers seem reluctant to work with radiant heat systems. What area are you in, and what sort of contractor are you working with?
@@inisii2 I'm in Marquette, and working with J-Goods. They did radiant in my sister-in-law's house (new construction) and the install was amazing. I'll also be using them for my new build - hopefully this fall.
Upunor, proud makers of cieling rain down systems
Love the wall install brilliant
Great video. Thank you.
The second process looks interesting to me. The second floor in my house uses hydronic wall radiators and 180 degree water. By putting it in the floor then I'll need a lot less high heat water and use a different style boiler when I replace it. Warm board or what he used in step 2 seems like the least amount of added weight to the floor. Lightweight gypsum pour might be a good process as well but an entire floor in mud could be much heavier. I don't see the link to the fellow's youtube channel. Do you have that available? Thanks Matt. Oh and also trying to figure options to heat my 32x48 shop since the existing concrete doesn't have tubing installed. No heat or insulation in Idaho makes it's too cold to work in the shop. Closed cell spray foam is on my mind. Other than hammering out the existing concrete floor to add foam and then tubes, I'm not sure what would be an efficient heat source. I have natural gas to the property but it doesn't run close to the shop. Evacuated solar tubes, big storage tank and heat ex-changer are the desired plan but probably more money than I need to throw at it. Solar panels and heating water could be an option as well. Not a lot of wood in the area plus I've done wood stoves before and I'd like to have something automatic.
Awesome stuff, I might be building a new house soon. Looking for energy efficient ideas.
Wow! This is useful information! Thank you!
Nice heating/cooling system! Combine it with ground source heat pump and it's even better :)
I'm an installer in romania, built my own house with radiant heating in the basement and 1st floor and the rest is with radiators. I regret not have it all with radiant it's so much better.
This seems to me like the difference between hot water heat and forced air heat. Hot water using radiators is very even heat. Forced air, not so much as it kicks on and off temperatures fluctuate.
This heat has to be very consistent and comfortable, that alone sells me.
I bought my home and paved new floors and tiles but realize now I don’t have good heating in this house turned adu. I learned about radiant floors and now not sure how to do it when everything is done. Thx for explaining I will look into it.
You should check out the Warmboard system.
We've done a couple videos with Matt already. Should have another posting here in a week or two :).
It’s the best, I live in Alberta and I am working on a horizontal 30 ton glycol loops to air exchange and slab cooling system, it hasn’t been done before but if it works I will only be using a 120volt circulation pump to cool my home and shop, the biggest reason for attempting this my attached shop is 40x75 if it works it will be amazing to have a cool shop, the ground temp is around 8-12 C, I am only planning for cooling as the electrical required to use a typical heat pump is expensive, and I want to sell my solar to grid to pay for propane and property tax, currently my home makes income
I have electric radiant heat in my ceilings from 1955 and it works to good. Don't think just because your cold your gonna turn the dial up and go to sleep cause your organs may boil. Mess around and get evaporated.
I would love to see a complete ductless system using radiant floor heating and options for whole house cooling that is ductless.
I designed and constructed by myself a home in Alaska in 2006 where I put half inch PEX in a 4 inch thick concrete monolithic slab to heat my house with a 40 gallon hot water heater that worked brilliantly.
What type of flooring did you use over the gypcrete? And did it ever
crack with all the earthquakes we get in Alaska?
Can you explain more about the water system as in are there chemicals needed to keep the water mold free? Do you add-in water time to time due to the water loss because of the heat? Does the water move in the system or stays in place? Thanks!
I still see homes in new England with radiant ceilings lol what the heck were they thinking in the 60’s?? I love it in flooring… not in love when it’s in a slab unless it’s a shop/garage
I'd love to see how you'd approach sealing and insulating an OLD (1870) farmhouse, like mine.
Matt, Houston here, can you do a video about radiant cooling. Where is the best place for it, floor walls or ceiling?
My first house had a boiler for heating and loved it I always planned on running radiant floors but never happened
We just installed a radial loop system pexal it’s on for only an hour morning 6-7am
Being in a passive solar space
Stays 80 degrees past 10 pm every night
Thank you for sharing.
Great content, thank you! One big question left for me at the moment: how do y’all recommend installing the slab temp sensor, especially for those systems where you’re getting the radiant piping up between the joists under a subfloor? (My main concern: I’ve got one of these in, but the sensor is getting heated by proximity to the pipes - even despite being held up to the subfloor by solid foam insulation.)
The Quick Track (spelling?) is intriguing as a retrofit for our main bathroom since there is access from below (in my office/personal room). Can you put insulation/sound deadener between the floor joists and over (under?) the Quick Track to minimize the foot noise from above?
Stainless is required for potable water if you want to use for cooling by running outside water through system before end use for domestic supply.
It's odd so many people have questions about stainless steel. Not sure when or where I learned this but "stainless steel is forever." And it's safe.
Does a ceiling install in a 2 story house do double duty...heating above and below?
Somewhat, I did this in my last house with suspended pex in between the TJI’s, 4x pex runs per 16”
Seemed to send about 2/3 of the heat to main level & about 1/3 into basement, more or less.
I wonder why in every RUclips video (especially US-made videos) the pipes in a floor heating setup are all in a 'serpentine' layout? When we installed our floor heating (Belgium) it is custom to use the 'counterflow' layout. This gives a more even spread of the heat you are pumping through your pipes.
In the serpentine method your loop will start with 'hot' water, but at the end of your loop (the other side of the room) your water has cooled down and thus the floor there is colder than where you started. So one side of the room's floor will be hotter than the other side. Why is it that this method is still used?
This image on Wikipedia says it all: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underfloor_heating#/media/File:Modelling_radiant_tube_patterns.png
Can answer for all Bart ,but as an installer the counter flow lay out is way better for the perimeter to heat first ,then interior. Especially if 2 of your walls in the room are exterior walls.
However when the actual application of the pipe is layed down it's just easier to put the serpentine installation. Yes I have done it both ways ,but honestly more than 75%of our installation are done this way . When working with other individuals who are installers, not helpers it's much easier to achieve.
So yeah you guessed it ,that only happens about 25% of the time. Often said its easiest, when one needs not overthink it.
Counter flow should be designated on the lay out of the plan. However radiant is sooooo expensive this additional cost is omitted.
Which then gets dropped on my shoulders, nd having an apprentice who cares more about his insta,progress for the day than actually learning. Its not hard for me to just get it done ,the serpentine method.
@@jamesortolano3983 exactly james!😎
It would be nice if you did a video in steam heat, not just the old bulky radiators, but include modern components.
So, are there any resources for planning air movement/exchange for an all radiant house? I assume you still need ducting and/or cold air return for the home.
Its cold 6 months a year here. As a native texan id love to have heated flooring!!!!! 🔥💯
Yea I was in Texas, its cold maybe two months. Rest is spring weather to blazing saddles.
Hi, I have a couple of friends who have used a water glycol mix at their cottage in Southern QC (close to Ottawa) in case the power cuts out (which it often does). It's not a 50/50 ratio as glycol is not a great conductor of heat.
I would give just about anything to get you guys to come up here to west Tennessee and help me figure out why I’m going through a 500 gallon tank if propane a month!
Yes water does transfer much more energy than air but when you don't have air movement you also don't condition the air. So a house without forced air turns into one big dust bunny. I lived in a house with only water heat and there was a good 10" of dust between the headboard and wall where it was hard to reach.
Radiant coupled with Geothermal.
If you run a farm with plenty of manure producers or compost, you can run a radiant system through your heaps for heat.
Awesome idea
perfect timing