Weirdly enough, this is the second time he hid an esteps tutorial in the middle of a different video, but he has never done just an esteps video. The last one was about downgrading your extruder (the dual gear he showed was absolute trash.)
Agreed. I need to do this. My prints have been so solid I have been afraid to mess with it too much haha. That being said I think it’s time as I feel like it might be under extruding a little.
Seems like a bit of a band aid fix to what is likely an issue with extruder gear gripping though. Particularly when you look up what esteps actually are with regards to the tiny magnets in the motor
imo it makes the tension the extruder is pulling against more even instead of building and building until the spool spins and then the tension drops a lot
My experience with bearings and spool holders... A free spinning side mount works great. The material moves smoothly and feeds well. A free spinning top mount was a disaster. The spool moved too freely and started unwinding itself uncontrollably. On multiple occasions, I came in to find my printer tangled up in a yarn ball of unwound filament during a print. For my printers with enough space, I do a bearing side mount. For my printers that need a top mount spool, I stick with a non-bearing holder. Your mileage may very.
What I love about Chuck is that he stays in touch with us the viewers, 3D printer enthusiasts (call us what you want). The other 3D printer content creaters started off beuatifully but then started upgrading studios to some fancy who cares about the fancy studios, as long as the content is good and helpfull. Other content creators also started moving onto big crazy expensive 3D printers that most of us wont be able to afford in our life. Wll done Chuck, we appreciate you here in South Africa, I always look forward to your next video. Keep going the way you are.
I designed and made my own. It makes a huge difference. You get less slippage in the extruder with it as well. I set mine up to hang off the side on the top. The filament goes right into the extruder at a nice sweeping angle. I have the files if anyone wants them. All you need is a shoulder bolt and two cheap bearings. The fixed holder had grooves worn in it from just over 5 rolls of filament.
I had the same result with the stock holder just putting a tiny amount of lithium grease on the shaft the spool sits on. 15-20kg of plastic later and its still smooth as butter.
Totally defies the purpose of having a 3d printer. One of which is making upgrades that work and are the same color as your other upgrades. So you can tell your wife you made that also and it was free.
I've used roller bearing spool holders since I bought my first 3D printer, an Anet A8, five years ago. I made that one out of roller skate bearings and PVC pipe. That spool holder worked just as well for my Ender 3. I remixed a spool holder for my Cr10S Pro V2, so it uses the same bearings. To me, it seems like such an obvious upgrade to make. Less drag. Smoother feeding filament.
I love the fact that you show us all the differences that any changes make to our machines and the need to recalibrate them after any changes we make! Keep up the exceptional quality of your videos for us Chuck
Imho, the resistance of the ptfe - tube is much greater than that of the holder. It is not necessary to unscrew the fitting, but the nozzle, and then do the calibration.
I just wrapped teflon tape on the spool holder on my ender3 pro, and that gave the same near frictionless motion of the spool on the stock spool holder.
I really like that you ran a series of test, maybe worth throwing in a chart next time. There are lots of videos “do X to make Y better” but with no quantification like you included here.
I think you still need some friction, because if the extruder with fast movement yank the filament you might end up with a tangled filament around the spool. This might not happen with slow prints but for fast prints and long extruder travel I think filament might snap. Thanks for sharing love your videos
I've had a bearing on my spool holder for a while now not to fix flow, but to fix bad filament snapping. Not everyone has an easy way to dry filament and over time if a spool is left in a printer, sometimes the line snaps between the extruder motor and the spool itself due to strain from being straightened. Using a bearing has allowed filament to curve and bend more than without a bearing on the spool holder, helping stop the filament from breaking when sitting doing nothing.
This was my first thought when I saw a 1kg roll HANGING from the bar not centered like a bearing. The hole of the spool is way larger than the mount Anything quantifiable is evidence!!!! The filament doesn’t just move out, it gets backed in with several prints. Not sure why but it does and that’s when I got the death knock Thanks for the videos!!!
i somewhat recently printed the "UNIVERSAL FILAMENT SPOOL HOLDER | GEN 2" off thingiverse, I also snagged another wing nut style to help lock it in place more and to fill up 'empty thread space" but I have been pretty happy with it. My bearings are either slightly offset, or, the bearings themselves arent that great quality and it has a tiny wobble, but it spins much, MUCH more freely. The design helps keep almost every spool type centered and balanced too, so it's pretty fantastic. My modifications to it allow it to mount using the Ender 3 metal bracket, using my old univresal spool holder's adapter (now with a hole in it for the threaded rod to fit through) - it does rub slightly against this, creating friction and slowing down the whole thing, but honestly I think that is a good thing, to keep it from going out of control spinny.
Really interesting findings! I'd have assumed that the extruder grips hard enough to get it over the sticky spots but apparently there is some inherent slip. It sort of explains why there is always just a little bit of filament dust near the extruder drive wheels, sort of chewing it up along the way.
I've had this product open in a tab for a couple months tryingto look into it and I think I'll be going ahead on it. I haven't seen such an in depth review of it yet, so thanks yet again!
If your extruder has trouble slipping because the spool is hard to turn, your problem is the extruder not the spool holder. Fun anecdote: last time I had a filament tangle catch, the extruder deflected the spool holder enough to pull the spool off and leave it hanging from the printer by the filament. 😂
My experience with a bearing spool holder on my Ender 3 was a model I found that actually could use the stock riser and your print the mounting bracket that goes into the metal riser and a spool that took two roller bearings. I found much less stringing. I attribute that to not only the roller spool but also a filament guide that clipped into the frame just before the extruder. The guide took a lot of tension off of the feed due to steep angle.
I just printed a pulley that makes the filament smoothly turn that corner into the extruder. It also helped with the filament breaking when it got a little wet and I didn't have time to dry it.
Great comparison. I never use the attached spool holders - I prefer independent free-standing ones, some with a roller and some with teflon tape. The message that reducing unspooling friction and filament friction from sharp turns is a good thing and I concur.
A stepper will go the steps it is told to. The extruder stepper will go those exact same steps regardless of what spool holder you are using. Unless your stepper is losing steps, which I doubt due to the low resistance of both spool option. The only other variable is the knurled feeder wheels are slipping. I think the real problem isn't your spool feeder option but probably the knurls on the spool feeder are worn down.
Fancy seeing you here! Didn't know you were into 3D printing, but then I suppose they do come in handy for printing replacement parts for vintage computers and consoles sometimes. It was RMC's Ender 3 video that got me started with 3D printing in the first place :-)
I don't like spool holders on bearings. I really like the way Voron does it with PTFE. I designed a top mount spool holder where the spool runs on two strips of bowden tube.
This is interesting to me. Since I tuned my telescope mounts, I prefer to have everything running on ball bearings. It may need more force to start moving, but I like ball bearings' smoothness. Great to see people have different personal preferences.
I literally just bought this to shorten my footprint from what I had as my set up. I love it the bearings a super smooth and it was only 20 bucks for it on Amazon
I can’t remember where but I saw a recommendation to wrap the spool holder in teflon tape to help with the jerking motion on the standard holder. It seems like it helped a ton because the teflon is much slicker although I’ll have to replace it every so often I’m sure. I never checked my esteps so thanks for that tip!
I made Rings and added bearings so my spools roll on the fixed spool holder. It does work great and I like the bigger bearings. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for all spools since they have different diameters. My Ender 3V2 is also different since I modified it to be a direct drive setup, not a standard Bowden tube. This is why I need the top mount.
I'm thinking you have some good points. However the math of extrusion should take in the total resistance of the spool holder resistance plus the back pressure of the liquid as it moves through the nozzle against the bed/or previously laid down filament. I would think that your new infeed distance will change with the added backpressure of the melt process.
My stock spool holder was causing my spools to grind and jump as it turns. It even started to make rubbing noise. I printed a new holder that uses the 608 bearings. My only complaint is it tended to unwind too much filament. That was fixed by tightening the bolt holing the bearings so there is a tiny amount of friction. They easily turn but resist free spinning.
I found it a bit mysterious that despite the initial test showing that it overextruded with the bearing that calibration required you to increase the amount extruded. This is the exact opposite of what I expected. Any idea why?
I switched to bearings when I noticed that my cardboard spools were wearing off and leaving debris on the spindle. I was already concerned about the extra friction. I tried teflon tape but it caused the spool to move in the direction I wound the tape and then ate through the it. So far the bearings seem better, but it's too soon to tell.
I'd be very interested in knowing if dual gear style extruders see a similar benefit. I suspect the higher pulling forces will avoid this issue and you won't see the same difference. But this is a really simple way to upgrade a stock E3 for more consistent flow.
The first few times I also used to calibrate e-steps skipping the nozzle, then I thought shouldn't the extrusion actually also take in account the nozzle resistance, if any?
I’ve done it both ways, but thru the nozzle is adjust be the slicer. Temperature, flow, speed all affect the filament thru the nozzle. Getting the stepper right is just step one.
Interesting. I currently use a table spool holder with bearings as my side spool started to droop, need to fix it. It did cause me layer shifts from the spool sliding to the front of the holder and rubbing against the stepper motor. But if the moving is better and more material is extruded, why the final esteps were higher than original? I'd expect them to be the opposite?
You really should print bracket and move feeder to the top of the X carriage. That's the cheapest and best upgrade to the ender3. Zero reason to stay with half meter long tube. And the better spool holder is one that has fixed axis and spins freely like a bicycle wheel. Then you add a piece of rubber to prevent disbalance spin and that's it. Flawless rotation. Always.
I used bearings in my spool holder and I found that it ran too freely and the filament got tangled up as too much of if came off the spool each time the extruded stopped pulling it.
I had the same question. The 252mm was on the Ender 2 and the 243mm was on the Ender 3, I still would expect the esteps to be adjusted down on the Ender 3, not up; was it not calibrated before changing the spool holder?
A spool holder is probably the only thing I would not buy for my printers, I have a choice of holders for different sized spools and different sized centres and all have 608 bearings
I haven’t had problems with printed spool holders using bearings. They will over-travel when a lot of filament is extruded, but only a little. Also, when filament is backed out (if you use long retraction settings - I use 4 to 6 mm on my Ender 3) the spool may rotate back.
bumping this. having a fast travel move jerk the spool into unraveling, then having the filament bind up when they retighten the wrong way, is a risk of print failure. was worse scenario than a 1% loss of extrusion distance
recently I got SPLA from Sunlu thinking it would be almos the same as PLA but printing with it has been a nightmare mostly it seems because it's kind of softer, so my extruder has a lot of problems pushing it because it's slips, I had my filament on top of the cabinet mounted on the normal spool holder (adapted with a printed base) where I have my printer and it became obvious the resistance from the setup, plus my basic extruder system was too much for this filament and sometimes the extruder ended up eating away the filament not pushing it any more. So, it's a hassle having to change a few things about my setup just because of this spool of SPLA but maybe it would be better overall to have it mount on the side and putting a rotating spool to have way less friction and maybe reduce irregularities on my prints. PS: I also have to try modding the spring of the extruder to apply more force
Do you do estep calibration with no nozzle pressure or after extruding for a short period add some pressure in the nozzle. I find that makes some difference, probably on the order of 1%ish error you’re seeing as well.
@@FilamentFriday I'm puzzled by this. The extruder uses a stepper motor. So long as it is not skipping steps changes in friction should not be an issue. What am I missing?
@@FilamentFriday Food for thought. I'm not entirely sure the result is meaningful because to filament was not also being pushed through the hot end at the same time. Squeezing a 1.75 mm filament through a 0.4 mm hole is going to create a lot of resistance. I have never measured the forces but pushing the filament seems to have far more resistance than tugging it off the spool.
I do think you're right about this affecting the top mounted spool, while I don't think it's the only factor in the quality difference (the extra weight up top probo induces more ringing) I think this is one of the bigger factors
Hi Chep great video as always. I upgraded my Ender 3 V2 with a Spite Pro extruder. I can’t find a S1 style top spool holder with runout sensor. Any suggestions on where to purchase or where to get a .stl of it?
I've been meaning to print out a replacement spool holder for the Ender 2 Pro that has bearings. Can't find a good model that has printed out good. I hope I don't need to buy this.
I just figured out that this friction is actually what's causing my underextrusion in some parts of my prints. I have an Ender 2 though, so I'm not sure if the top mount roller will fit in my bracket. Could you (or anyone else who has it) measure the top mounted spindle? Specifically the diameter where it attaches to the bracket, and how long the rotating part of the holder is? Thanks!
I am interested to compare my cura 5 PETG settings with yours to see where our settings differ. Is there a place that your shared profiles can be found for cura 5? the link i have only has older profiles available. Thank you for these videos, and for sharing your experiences with the community.
Free Spinning Spools are a bad idea. suppose a quick travel motion gives the filament a good jerk and the spool gains some momentum, now you get a bunch of loose loops coming off the spool. get really unlucky and as extrusion pulls them taught again one might cinch down over another, leading to binding.
... I use a holder with bearings for many many years... Mine has even the role of filament in center so it rolls much smoother... never had loose loops....
I can see it happening with direct drive if you don't have any tubing in front of it, rapid head movement could make the spool spinning but i don't think extruder on its own can do it. maybe on the retraction but this can be easy prevented by slightly angling the spool.
@@drbeandog4209 yes I did, chep only compares the 2 side filament holders, I was wondering if ther is a even bigger difference between the ender 3 standard filament holder and the side roller bering holder, did I miss that?
That sucks!! Not your video, that's okay. But the fact I recently bought some side spoolholders by Creality that where hard to get on the printer (slides in, instead of screwing) and doesn't spin. So I wished this version became available just a little bit earlier. I would have bought the spinning one.
@@FilamentFriday I did see that. I really enjoy your vids and feel like they offer some great info. Even though I have a CR10v2 I try to relate it to what I have. Searching through your vids I can't see if you've talked about what makes one filament great and another garbage. I think that would be a good resource.
I haven’t tested enough to make that video. For years I used my own Filament Friday Filament but we’ve discontinued it. I still have some and use it in the videos.
Cant the holder so it is slightly higher at the open end. That way the spool will want to stay against the closed end. If that doesn’t work then you may have other, more significant, mechanical issues.
The gear can slip on the filament. Best upgrade I ever did was swapping it out for a dual drive geared extruder. It's so strong it would never slip. It will stall the servo instead, which takes a lot of force when it's geared 3:1
Print a vase. Without recalibrating E-Steps every 250 mm of plastic there is an extra 2mm to extrude. In a small nozzle chamber that builds up and accumulates on the print. Intermittently. Retraction relieves pressure but not extra plastic.
Ok, I disagree. Any slippage or error in the base filament movement should be eliminated if possible. It’s like adjusting all the settings in the slicer. Each may only contribute a small percentage to the flow or accuracy of the print but in total it all adds up. But you don’t have to use the spool holder or adjust your E-steps. It’s not a requirement. Do what you want with your printer.
That esteps tutorial in the middle of this was totally worth the price of admission. You sir are a paragon of 3d printing greatness, well done!
Weirdly enough, this is the second time he hid an esteps tutorial in the middle of a different video, but he has never done just an esteps video. The last one was about downgrading your extruder (the dual gear he showed was absolute trash.)
Agreed. I need to do this. My prints have been so solid I have been afraid to mess with it too much haha. That being said I think it’s time as I feel like it might be under extruding a little.
I printed a spool holder that uses those 608 bearings from fidget spinners that everyone has. It works well
Seems like a bit of a band aid fix to what is likely an issue with extruder gear gripping though. Particularly when you look up what esteps actually are with regards to the tiny magnets in the motor
imo it makes the tension the extruder is pulling against more even instead of building and building until the spool spins and then the tension drops a lot
My experience with bearings and spool holders... A free spinning side mount works great. The material moves smoothly and feeds well. A free spinning top mount was a disaster. The spool moved too freely and started unwinding itself uncontrollably. On multiple occasions, I came in to find my printer tangled up in a yarn ball of unwound filament during a print. For my printers with enough space, I do a bearing side mount. For my printers that need a top mount spool, I stick with a non-bearing holder. Your mileage may very.
What I love about Chuck is that he stays in touch with us the viewers, 3D printer enthusiasts (call us what you want). The other 3D printer content creaters started off beuatifully but then started upgrading studios to some fancy who cares about the fancy studios, as long as the content is good and helpfull. Other content creators also started moving onto big crazy expensive 3D printers that most of us wont be able to afford in our life. Wll done Chuck, we appreciate you here in South Africa, I always look forward to your next video. Keep going the way you are.
Thanks.
I designed and made my own. It makes a huge difference. You get less slippage in the extruder with it as well. I set mine up to hang off the side on the top. The filament goes right into the extruder at a nice sweeping angle. I have the files if anyone wants them. All you need is a shoulder bolt and two cheap bearings.
The fixed holder had grooves worn in it from just over 5 rolls of filament.
I had the same result with the stock holder just putting a tiny amount of lithium grease on the shaft the spool sits on. 15-20kg of plastic later and its still smooth as butter.
I do the same thing. It introduces a bit of mess and contamination concerns but can't beat the price ;)
Totally defies the purpose of having a 3d printer. One of which is making upgrades that work and are the same color as your other upgrades. So you can tell your wife you made that also and it was free.
@@lkkeowee I'm not sure why you think some grease on the stock part would change the colour tbh.
I've used roller bearing spool holders since I bought my first 3D printer, an Anet A8, five years ago. I made that one out of roller skate bearings and PVC pipe. That spool holder worked just as well for my Ender 3. I remixed a spool holder for my Cr10S Pro V2, so it uses the same bearings. To me, it seems like such an obvious upgrade to make. Less drag. Smoother feeding filament.
I love the fact that you show us all the differences that any changes make to our machines and the need to recalibrate them after any changes we make! Keep up the exceptional quality of your videos for us Chuck
Imho, the resistance of the ptfe - tube is much greater than that of the holder. It is not necessary to unscrew the fitting, but the nozzle, and then do the calibration.
I just wrapped teflon tape on the spool holder on my ender3 pro, and that gave the same near frictionless motion of the spool on the stock spool holder.
I really like that you ran a series of test, maybe worth throwing in a chart next time. There are lots of videos “do X to make Y better” but with no quantification like you included here.
This is the kind of thing you could 3d print.
One of my first non-calibration prints I ever made was a bearing spool holder and I've never looked back.
Can you share the design?
I think you still need some friction, because if the extruder with fast movement yank the filament you might end up with a tangled filament around the spool. This might not happen with slow prints but for fast prints and long extruder travel I think filament might snap.
Thanks for sharing love your videos
I've had a bearing on my spool holder for a while now not to fix flow, but to fix bad filament snapping. Not everyone has an easy way to dry filament and over time if a spool is left in a printer, sometimes the line snaps between the extruder motor and the spool itself due to strain from being straightened. Using a bearing has allowed filament to curve and bend more than without a bearing on the spool holder, helping stop the filament from breaking when sitting doing nothing.
This was my first thought when I saw a 1kg roll HANGING from the bar not centered like a bearing. The hole of the spool is way larger than the mount
Anything quantifiable is evidence!!!!
The filament doesn’t just move out, it gets backed in with several prints. Not sure why but it does and that’s when I got the death knock
Thanks for the videos!!!
i somewhat recently printed the "UNIVERSAL FILAMENT SPOOL HOLDER | GEN 2" off thingiverse, I also snagged another wing nut style to help lock it in place more and to fill up 'empty thread space" but I have been pretty happy with it. My bearings are either slightly offset, or, the bearings themselves arent that great quality and it has a tiny wobble, but it spins much, MUCH more freely.
The design helps keep almost every spool type centered and balanced too, so it's pretty fantastic.
My modifications to it allow it to mount using the Ender 3 metal bracket, using my old univresal spool holder's adapter (now with a hole in it for the threaded rod to fit through) - it does rub slightly against this, creating friction and slowing down the whole thing, but honestly I think that is a good thing, to keep it from going out of control spinny.
Really interesting findings! I'd have assumed that the extruder grips hard enough to get it over the sticky spots but apparently there is some inherent slip. It sort of explains why there is always just a little bit of filament dust near the extruder drive wheels, sort of chewing it up along the way.
I've had this product open in a tab for a couple months tryingto look into it and I think I'll be going ahead on it. I haven't seen such an in depth review of it yet, so thanks yet again!
If your extruder has trouble slipping because the spool is hard to turn, your problem is the extruder not the spool holder. Fun anecdote: last time I had a filament tangle catch, the extruder deflected the spool holder enough to pull the spool off and leave it hanging from the printer by the filament. 😂
My experience with a bearing spool holder on my Ender 3 was a model I found that actually could use the stock riser and your print the mounting bracket that goes into the metal riser and a spool that took two roller bearings. I found much less stringing. I attribute that to not only the roller spool but also a filament guide that clipped into the frame just before the extruder. The guide took a lot of tension off of the feed due to steep angle.
I just printed a pulley that makes the filament smoothly turn that corner into the extruder. It also helped with the filament breaking when it got a little wet and I didn't have time to dry it.
Great comparison. I never use the attached spool holders - I prefer independent free-standing ones, some with a roller and some with teflon tape. The message that reducing unspooling friction and filament friction from sharp turns is a good thing and I concur.
Really, really interesting, Chuck! Thanks for testing! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
This is one of the first things I got for my e3v2. Mainly because it lives on a top shelf with no room for a spool on top. But it just makes sense.
Thanks Chep. The new spool holder did seem smoother.
A stepper will go the steps it is told to. The extruder stepper will go those exact same steps regardless of what spool holder you are using. Unless your stepper is losing steps, which I doubt due to the low resistance of both spool option. The only other variable is the knurled feeder wheels are slipping. I think the real problem isn't your spool feeder option but probably the knurls on the spool feeder are worn down.
You are great Chuck. Thanks for the videos!😃
Fancy seeing you here! Didn't know you were into 3D printing, but then I suppose they do come in handy for printing replacement parts for vintage computers and consoles sometimes. It was RMC's Ender 3 video that got me started with 3D printing in the first place :-)
I don't like spool holders on bearings. I really like the way Voron does it with PTFE. I designed a top mount spool holder where the spool runs on two strips of bowden tube.
This is interesting to me. Since I tuned my telescope mounts, I prefer to have everything running on ball bearings. It may need more force to start moving, but I like ball bearings' smoothness. Great to see people have different personal preferences.
I literally just bought this to shorten my footprint from what I had as my set up. I love it the bearings a super smooth and it was only 20 bucks for it on Amazon
I can’t remember where but I saw a recommendation to wrap the spool holder in teflon tape to help with the jerking motion on the standard holder. It seems like it helped a ton because the teflon is much slicker although I’ll have to replace it every so often I’m sure. I never checked my esteps so thanks for that tip!
This is really good content Chuck!
I made Rings and added bearings so my spools roll on the fixed spool holder. It does work great and I like the bigger bearings. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for all spools since they have different diameters. My Ender 3V2 is also different since I modified it to be a direct drive setup, not a standard Bowden tube. This is why I need the top mount.
No CHEP, No More Printer Upgrades, Please!
The spool heater devices have nice rollers inside them
I’m seriously disappointed that no one has seen this and made free 3D printable version
wym there are so many of these designs on thingiverse
I'm thinking you have some good points. However the math of extrusion should take in the total resistance of the spool holder resistance plus the back pressure of the liquid as it moves through the nozzle against the bed/or previously laid down filament. I would think that your new infeed distance will change with the added backpressure of the melt process.
great vid! have a nice weekend and thanks for sharing your knowledge/experiments.
Chuck is like the Qui-gon Jinn of the 3d printing universe... looks like him too
Thanks CHEP. I have an Ender 3 with v2 firmware. I'll get a bearing holder and try it.
Your extruder is not doing so great then. There should be no difference.
Finally, someone said it. Thank you
My stock spool holder was causing my spools to grind and jump as it turns. It even started to make rubbing noise. I printed a new holder that uses the 608 bearings. My only complaint is it tended to unwind too much filament. That was fixed by tightening the bolt holing the bearings so there is a tiny amount of friction. They easily turn but resist free spinning.
I found it a bit mysterious that despite the initial test showing that it overextruded with the bearing that calibration required you to increase the amount extruded. This is the exact opposite of what I expected. Any idea why?
Because the over extrusion was on the Ender 2. The underextrusion was on the Ender 3.
@@FilamentFriday Thanks! That clears it up!
I switched to bearings when I noticed that my cardboard spools were wearing off and leaving debris on the spindle. I was already concerned about the extra friction. I tried teflon tape but it caused the spool to move in the direction I wound the tape and then ate through the it. So far the bearings seem better, but it's too soon to tell.
I'd be very interested in knowing if dual gear style extruders see a similar benefit. I suspect the higher pulling forces will avoid this issue and you won't see the same difference. But this is a really simple way to upgrade a stock E3 for more consistent flow.
Surprising results.
The first few times I also used to calibrate e-steps skipping the nozzle, then I thought shouldn't the extrusion actually also take in account the nozzle resistance, if any?
I’ve done it both ways, but thru the nozzle is adjust be the slicer. Temperature, flow, speed all affect the filament thru the nozzle. Getting the stepper right is just step one.
Interesting. I currently use a table spool holder with bearings as my side spool started to droop, need to fix it. It did cause me layer shifts from the spool sliding to the front of the holder and rubbing against the stepper motor.
But if the moving is better and more material is extruded, why the final esteps were higher than original? I'd expect them to be the opposite?
I adjusted the Ender 3 not the Ender 2.
You really should print bracket and move feeder to the top of the X carriage. That's the cheapest and best upgrade to the ender3. Zero reason to stay with half meter long tube.
And the better spool holder is one that has fixed axis and spins freely like a bicycle wheel. Then you add a piece of rubber to prevent disbalance spin and that's it. Flawless rotation. Always.
I used bearings in my spool holder and I found that it ran too freely and the filament got tangled up as too much of if came off the spool each time the extruded stopped pulling it.
Same. Went back to a standard spool holder. A little friction is a good thing in this case.
If there was 2mm extra extrusion, how did the esteps calibration only come to 243mm? I would have expected 252 and as such the esteps to decrease?
I had the same question. The 252mm was on the Ender 2 and the 243mm was on the Ender 3, I still would expect the esteps to be adjusted down on the Ender 3, not up; was it not calibrated before changing the spool holder?
The Ender 2 was more, the Ender 3 was less. I only adjusted the Ender 3 e steps.
A spool holder is probably the only thing I would not buy for my printers, I have a choice of holders for different sized spools and different sized centres and all have 608 bearings
Shouldn't there be a little bit of resistance to keep the spool from unravelling?
exactly this - i took the bearings out of mine to stop it happening.
I haven’t had problems with printed spool holders using bearings. They will over-travel when a lot of filament is extruded, but only a little. Also, when filament is backed out (if you use long retraction settings - I use 4 to 6 mm on my Ender 3) the spool may rotate back.
bumping this.
having a fast travel move jerk the spool into unraveling, then having the filament bind up when they retighten the wrong way, is a risk of print failure.
was worse scenario than a 1% loss of extrusion distance
We can print those...granted the bearings need to be purchased
Thanks mister obvious
Great test
Why not just recommend printing a spool holder, top or side, that uses bearings. Was one of my first upgrade prints.
Because Chep also has mouths to feed.
He's shown off printed side spool mounts before
What about moving the extruded to the top crossbar and put the filament holder behind the printer. Straight feed less footprint
Excellent!
Do you know of a printable bearing spool holder for the side swinging version you did a video on?
recently I got SPLA from Sunlu thinking it would be almos the same as PLA but printing with it has been a nightmare mostly it seems because it's kind of softer, so my extruder has a lot of problems pushing it because it's slips, I had my filament on top of the cabinet mounted on the normal spool holder (adapted with a printed base) where I have my printer and it became obvious the resistance from the setup, plus my basic extruder system was too much for this filament and sometimes the extruder ended up eating away the filament not pushing it any more. So, it's a hassle having to change a few things about my setup just because of this spool of SPLA but maybe it would be better overall to have it mount on the side and putting a rotating spool to have way less friction and maybe reduce irregularities on my prints.
PS: I also have to try modding the spring of the extruder to apply more force
Hi Chep could I fit this spinning spool holder to an Ender 2 Pro ?
Do you do estep calibration with no nozzle pressure or after extruding for a short period add some pressure in the nozzle. I find that makes some difference, probably on the order of 1%ish error you’re seeing as well.
I adjust flow and temp in slicer to adjust for nozzle.
@@FilamentFriday I'm puzzled by this. The extruder uses a stepper motor. So long as it is not skipping steps changes in friction should not be an issue. What am I missing?
Clearly there is slipping in the extruder caused be the spool holder resistance to see a 2mm difference.
@@FilamentFriday Food for thought. I'm not entirely sure the result is meaningful because to filament was not also being pushed through the hot end at the same time. Squeezing a 1.75 mm filament through a 0.4 mm hole is going to create a lot of resistance. I have never measured the forces but pushing the filament seems to have far more resistance than tugging it off the spool.
That’s all slicer settings; flow, temp, speed, etc.
Still need the extruder as close to perfect to have a base to build from.
I prefer some tension on my spool so it doesn't unwind and tangle.
I do think you're right about this affecting the top mounted spool, while I don't think it's the only factor in the quality difference (the extra weight up top probo induces more ringing) I think this is one of the bigger factors
Maybe if it was like an Axle and not just sitting on the spool holder.
It would be interesting to get some feedback re print quality after a few months
Thanks for sharing.
I use a lazy Susan , spool laid on it's side, can't unroll
Hi Chep great video as always. I upgraded my Ender 3 V2 with a Spite Pro extruder. I can’t find a S1 style top spool holder with runout sensor. Any suggestions on where to purchase or where to get a .stl of it?
Or buy bearings and print your own that's what I did
which particular model did u use with bearing?
Why do you use 250 over 100? Is there any benefit?
My guess would be for more accuracy
You wouldn’t notice the difference at 100.
I’ve always calibrated e-steps with the Bowden tube still connected to the extruder and the nozzle at print temperature. Is that wrong?
It just becomes dependent on temp, plastic and assuming no partial blockage. So that works until you need to try some other filament.
@@FilamentFriday thanks for your quick response. Then am I supposed to recalibrate esteps every time I change filament?
I recommend setting e-steps without going thru the nozzle then adjust flow in the slicer for the different filaments.
I've been meaning to print out a replacement spool holder for the Ender 2 Pro that has bearings. Can't find a good model that has printed out good. I hope I don't need to buy this.
I just figured out that this friction is actually what's causing my underextrusion in some parts of my prints. I have an Ender 2 though, so I'm not sure if the top mount roller will fit in my bracket. Could you (or anyone else who has it) measure the top mounted spindle? Specifically the diameter where it attaches to the bracket, and how long the rotating part of the holder is? Thanks!
Isn't this the kind of thing you ought to just print for yourself?
The filament looks exactly like Popbit.
I am interested to compare my cura 5 PETG settings with yours to see where our settings differ. Is there a place that your shared profiles can be found for cura 5? the link i have only has older profiles available. Thank you for these videos, and for sharing your experiences with the community.
It’s coming soon.
20 bucks for something I could make with the printer and the cost of a couple of bearings? yeesh.
And what about different types of spools ?
I bought the non-bearing version of this a month ago. It feels fine so far.
Should I grease/teflon it to reduce resistance or just leave it as it is?
Leave it unless you see an issue.
Free Spinning Spools are a bad idea.
suppose a quick travel motion gives the filament a good jerk and the spool gains some momentum, now you get a bunch of loose loops coming off the spool.
get really unlucky and as extrusion pulls them taught again one might cinch down over another, leading to binding.
... I use a holder with bearings for many many years... Mine has even the role of filament in center so it rolls much smoother... never had loose loops....
I can see it happening with direct drive if you don't have any tubing in front of it, rapid head movement could make the spool spinning but i don't think extruder on its own can do it. maybe on the retraction but this can be easy prevented by slightly angling the spool.
@@mrt_tube funny you should mention that
because I use direct drive with no tubing
Going off on a bit of a tangent: Is there an easy way to calibrate the E-steps for a direct drive extruder?
It depends on the printer model, some have the option to change it in the printer menu or by using an updated firmware.
What printer do you have?
@@htpkey Ender 5 Pro with Micro Swiss direct drive upgrade kit.
Just mark 100mm away from the inlet, feed in 100mm at 10C hotter than you usually would, measure what went through. Calculate new esteps
What was the difference between the top standard filament holder and the side filament holder with bearings
Did you watch the video?
@@drbeandog4209 yes I did, chep only compares the 2 side filament holders, I was wondering if ther is a even bigger difference between the ender 3 standard filament holder and the side roller bering holder, did I miss that?
Where are your Fast files located thank you
Link in description. It’s a .3MF file.
That sucks!! Not your video, that's okay. But the fact I recently bought some side spoolholders by Creality that where hard to get on the printer (slides in, instead of screwing) and doesn't spin. So I wished this version became available just a little bit earlier. I would have bought the spinning one.
Do you really use Amazon Basic filament? Obviously you like it. Why vs other filaments?
I don’t like it or recommend it.
@@FilamentFriday But that's what you have at 1:30.
At 1:37 you can see I switched it.
@@FilamentFriday I did see that. I really enjoy your vids and feel like they offer some great info. Even though I have a CR10v2 I try to relate it to what I have.
Searching through your vids I can't see if you've talked about what makes one filament great and another garbage. I think that would be a good resource.
I haven’t tested enough to make that video. For years I used my own Filament Friday Filament but we’ve discontinued it. I still have some and use it in the videos.
I have a side mount with a ball bearing roller from thingiverse and it still jumps and falls off. ☹️
Cant the holder so it is slightly higher at the open end. That way the spool will want to stay against the closed end.
If that doesn’t work then you may have other, more significant, mechanical issues.
@@boggisthecat I've tried a few things. Best solution was to put something heavy in from of it.
Didnt know nick cage did 3d printing
🔥💕👍
What you are saying doesn't make sense, the filament is being pulled by a Gear.🤔
The gear can slip on the filament. Best upgrade I ever did was swapping it out for a dual drive geared extruder. It's so strong it would never slip. It will stall the servo instead, which takes a lot of force when it's geared 3:1
@@engineer1692 That's why bearings are no bearings on the spool makes no difference In my view.
@@engineer1692 If the gear is slipping then I'd expect the calibration to be inconsistent.
250 or 252 the error is so small makes no difference. You never print anything that has 250mm extrusions.
Like I said in the video, it adds up on bigger prints. 2 becomes 4 becomes 8, 16, etc.
Print a vase. Without recalibrating E-Steps every 250 mm of plastic there is an extra 2mm to extrude. In a small nozzle chamber that builds up and accumulates on the print. Intermittently. Retraction relieves pressure but not extra plastic.
Nope, I see it as an upgrade. Gets rid of intermittent drag. You just gotta calibrate E-Steps for best performance.
@@FilamentFriday Even a vase mode does just very short lines so the less than 1% error is nothing.
Ok, I disagree. Any slippage or error in the base filament movement should be eliminated if possible. It’s like adjusting all the settings in the slicer. Each may only contribute a small percentage to the flow or accuracy of the print but in total it all adds up. But you don’t have to use the spool holder or adjust your E-steps. It’s not a requirement. Do what you want with your printer.
get some sleep Chep.
This sounds useless for direct drive.