Opening day dove season I went through 2 boxes and killed bout 5 doves… many times had feathers floating and birds flying on!! A buddy even folded a dove and when he went to pick it up it flew off….
@@-B_G- absolutely this. I recommend anyone to read the Lyman shotshell book. Its free online through the library of congress. If you read that you will see a lot of these things are smoke and mirrors and people really don't know much about what is going on.
I patterned my 20 gauge SBE3 with BOSS 3" #5's and had 148 pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards with IMPROVED CYLINDER. I'm putting more pellets on paper than are even in a black cloud shell. Like you said, it's only costs a few dollars more per 25 shells.
Regarding shot string, a typical duck on a crossing shot will move roughly 6 inches in the time it takes even a relatively long shot string to pass the plane of the duck. That is such a short distance that it can basically be ignored and the pattern can be treated as a 2 dimensional object. Best advice is to determine the max distance you personally shoot ducks (for me that’s 50 yards), adjust your choke so that the pattern consistently holds just enough hits in a 30” circle to be effective (i.e. 60 pellets for big geese, 80 for small geese, 100 for big ducks, 120 for medium ducks, and 140 for teal), and you’re set. Using the most open choke that’s still effective at max distance will give you the widest effective patterns at all ranges, thus improving your hit percentage slightly. Patterning is important, but it’s no substitute for range time shooting clays.
Watch Surving duck season. He goes through actual filiming of shot strings. Most manufactures of ammo actually tell lies. Boss shells was a superb preformer. Also the choke tube companies do not speak the truth either. Very interesting to watch actual footage of shot strings in slow motion! 😊
I think surviving duck season also found that slower speeds have better performance. Muller chokes are also tested by Joel and showed top notch performance over all other aftermarket tubes (if I recall correctly)
From many years of hunting I've noticed.... All 3 shot types are steel. So they have a limited range. And for the major price gap. I'm sticking with the blue box.
Ok i haven't bought Waterfowl loads in a while, but when did they go from $12-$15 for cheap stuff and $20 up for better boxes to over 40$?!!! Absolutely ridiculous
Hitting the post season sales for next season is where you save a ton of money if you want to try shells. I found my local sporting goods store selling Black cloud for $22 a box on clearance after the season was over in my state.
Don’t hunt much as I am 75 but for the last 15 years or so I used Kent tungsten. Expensive yes but the best shotshells made. I used a 23/4 in 12 ga. 3 and 5 size. One of the few shells I can use in my Superposed.
I have shot the black cloud the old and the improved one and they still are just too dirty of a shell. I also havent really noticed a lot of difference with flight stopper pellets over just one with regular steel pellets. I have always had good luck with federal speed shok patterns great out of many of my guns and choke combos. I'm glad they brought back ultra steel but it wasn't a stacked load when I shot it. If I shoot regular steel I love federal the best. However lately I shoot the hevi hammers from hevi shot bismuth and steel combo shells. I shoot other brands of steel shot as well. I like to try them all.
I believe this is the go-to channel for shotgun reviews. In terms of shotshell reviews, I wouldn't do them as long as you're sponsored by a shotshell company (unless you're required). Federal is simply behind the game in a lot of shotshell categories, so it makes these videos less informative and more of an advertisement, even if they come from someone reputable
I'm super stoked you didn't make us watch the round 2 of shots. I think this is a mistake of most others! We watched the process so we could see repeatability then weren't persecuted to watch it all over again! Awesome and thank you from New Zealand
I have been running winchester xpert 2/3 stacked for years. When you said the price of the black clouds. I did a double take. I remember when they were released. They were only 20.00 a box. And my standard steel was 10-12.
Plating the steel or bismuth like boss uses as new hunter guide's stated helps in lubricity going through the feathers and fat into the meat of the duck.
@@chevyon37s Less friction = more penetration, it's not that complicated. Zinc or copper plating has more lubricity (less friction) than steel or bismuth on its own. And yea, so it doesn't break down too.
@@chevyon37s Honestly, I've not seen the plating do anything to improve fragmentation in bismuth. Buffering does a lot to improve fragmentation, almost eliminates it. The plating doesn't seem to make a difference.
I shoot the fast steel 3inch #3 /1550. In my 20 guage beretta a 400 with the carlson delta series and I shoot geese, ducks no problems and it has a great pattern.
4:50 ok so I'm no expert on shot string, but I've gone down the rabbit hole further than most. So shot string has more to do with energy transfer than it does with time of impact (from first to last pellet). And what you were trying to demonstrate with your arm is not at all how it works. Like the shot is traveling so fast, it doesn't even matter. And there's been several people to do experiments on this over the years, it's the same concept as no matter how fast you swing your shotgun, you can't "stretch out" your pattern. But by having a tighter shot string, the better individual pellets perform. Which is why extended choke tubes are so popular is because they tighten up your shot string. Which brings me to mixed shot size loads, of which I am not a fan of. When you have two different sizes, the larger of the two is going to be more affected by drag than the smaller one. And when that happens it going to lengthen the shot string and may even cause pellets to collide while in flight leading to poor patterns. Or, worse yet, they collide while still in your barrel.
I couldn't get even pattern distribution with speedshok #4 through my SX4 with the factory chokes at 40 yards. Carlsons Delta LR choke is what it took to get a pattern that still has some gaps but they're small enough to be acceptable. Kent and Fiocchi were far better distribution; Kent being the best.
If the petals of the was open and catch wind, the shot will leave the wad. I can assume that the shot leaves the wad just after leaving the barrel. Heavy Metal is assume but so expensive .
Year ago I loaded a duplex load of 1/4oz No5's over 1oz No3's- in lead; these killed flighting wigeon like a dream. They were loaded this way round as with the smaller shot on the bottom, they would get crushed with the setback on firing. Now with steel being so hard we can load them with the smaller on the bottom. I recently went to a marsh here in England and using a home load 3-1/2" case with 1/2oz No4's under 1oz No2's, and shot 5 wigeon and 3 teal. So duplex loads work, but without the technicalities of 'Surviving Duck Season' ( as mentioned) who knows the advantages?
Love the videoed and I mean no disrespect by this comment but in a sense you’re comparing apples to oranges. I think if you were to test straight #2 in all three variances and straight #4 in all three the results would change. I’ve ran federal #2 for goose for years. Just a opinion
Shooting 3-5 times will show you just how bad and inconsistent factory loads are. The best steel load I’ve ever shot was the federal blue box. More specifically the 2 3/4” 1375fps load.
I would rather have no shot string at all. I would rather miss completely than wound a duck and I believe no shot string would be more likely to have a clean miss
I appreciate the concept of teaching someone vs giving them bread but im tired of no one being willing to take the time to run numbers on these shot shells. The New Hunters Guide tries his best with few resources and Surviving Duck Season got all the fancy resources which ended in a video with 1/10th of the information that we needed (Both are great and so are you by the way). You've got the app, the views for the channel will come, run 1k rounds through that JM Pro and give us the data. Please inquiring minds must know. People will make assertions and assumptions regardless. Heck I bet 15%-30% of the people that watch this prolly figure that federal paid you to say good things about their ammo based off of this.
I think i'll pay 20 cents more a shell for bismuth from Boss. These manufacturers come out with "premium steel" then price is $2 less a boss than Bismuth which is hilarious to me.
Speed-shok is over priced. Should be $12 per box. And you can find better stacked loads for cheaper. I shoot migra. And it’s way cleaner to shoot and patterns great.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Buy what you can afford and go hunting, don’t stress the specs you’re probably going to miss anyway
Haha, too real.
Lol that's so based!
That’s the spirit! 🎉
Don’t forget to pattern test what you plan on hunting. Sometimes the cheaper stuff patterns better than premium loads in certain gun/choke combos.
Opening day dove season I went through 2 boxes and killed bout 5 doves… many times had feathers floating and birds flying on!! A buddy even folded a dove and when he went to pick it up it flew off….
Surviving duck season made an awesome video about shot string. Thats pretty much all you need to know about the subject.
Ya he totally crushed a lot of duck hunters souls lol!
Didn't he basically figure out that ducks can't fly fast enough for it to matter?
@@JtotheG317 That's what I got from the video as well but killer video
Proper Pattern density for the yardage shot is far more important than a shot string.
@@-B_G- absolutely this. I recommend anyone to read the Lyman shotshell book. Its free online through the library of congress. If you read that you will see a lot of these things are smoke and mirrors and people really don't know much about what is going on.
For the price of high end steel, I’m shooting bismuth. A few bucks more and much better performance.
Same here. Steel isn’t worth it anymore. Less cripples, better patterns and more energy on target with bismuth.
I patterned my 20 gauge SBE3 with BOSS 3" #5's and had 148 pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards with IMPROVED CYLINDER. I'm putting more pellets on paper than are even in a black cloud shell. Like you said, it's only costs a few dollars more per 25 shells.
Regarding shot string, a typical duck on a crossing shot will move roughly 6 inches in the time it takes even a relatively long shot string to pass the plane of the duck. That is such a short distance that it can basically be ignored and the pattern can be treated as a 2 dimensional object. Best advice is to determine the max distance you personally shoot ducks (for me that’s 50 yards), adjust your choke so that the pattern consistently holds just enough hits in a 30” circle to be effective (i.e. 60 pellets for big geese, 80 for small geese, 100 for big ducks, 120 for medium ducks, and 140 for teal), and you’re set. Using the most open choke that’s still effective at max distance will give you the widest effective patterns at all ranges, thus improving your hit percentage slightly. Patterning is important, but it’s no substitute for range time shooting clays.
Watch Surving duck season. He goes through actual filiming of shot strings. Most manufactures of ammo actually tell lies. Boss shells was a superb preformer. Also the choke tube companies do not speak the truth either. Very interesting to watch actual footage of shot strings in slow motion! 😊
I think surviving duck season also found that slower speeds have better performance. Muller chokes are also tested by Joel and showed top notch performance over all other aftermarket tubes (if I recall correctly)
Hadn't heard of this load before today. Looking forward to testing it.
From many years of hunting I've noticed....
All 3 shot types are steel. So they have a limited range. And for the major price gap.
I'm sticking with the blue box.
I've been rolling my own with mixed sized pellets for a while now. They work great.
Could you make a video about 20 gauge vs 12 gauge for hunting ducks? Maybe a pattern difference?
Migra 2/4 stack loads have been my choice of shells but with good shot placement any shell should do good
Ok i haven't bought Waterfowl loads in a while, but when did they go from $12-$15 for cheap stuff and $20 up for better boxes to over 40$?!!! Absolutely ridiculous
Hitting the post season sales for next season is where you save a ton of money if you want to try shells. I found my local sporting goods store selling Black cloud for $22 a box on clearance after the season was over in my state.
Don’t hunt much as I am 75 but for the last 15 years or so I used Kent tungsten. Expensive yes but the best shotshells made. I used a 23/4 in 12 ga. 3 and 5 size. One of the few shells I can use in my Superposed.
I have shot the black cloud the old and the improved one and they still are just too dirty of a shell. I also havent really noticed a lot of difference with flight stopper pellets over just one with regular steel pellets. I have always had good luck with federal speed shok patterns great out of many of my guns and choke combos. I'm glad they brought back ultra steel but it wasn't a stacked load when I shot it. If I shoot regular steel I love federal the best. However lately I shoot the hevi hammers from hevi shot bismuth and steel combo shells. I shoot other brands of steel shot as well. I like to try them all.
I believe this is the go-to channel for shotgun reviews. In terms of shotshell reviews, I wouldn't do them as long as you're sponsored by a shotshell company (unless you're required). Federal is simply behind the game in a lot of shotshell categories, so it makes these videos less informative and more of an advertisement, even if they come from someone reputable
I'm super stoked you didn't make us watch the round 2 of shots. I think this is a mistake of most others! We watched the process so we could see repeatability then weren't persecuted to watch it all over again! Awesome and thank you from New Zealand
Ultra steel and the 2/4’s to me make the most sense for Goose and duck.
I really miss paying $12.99 for Prairie Storm 4 years ago! $42 a single box for shotgun shells is complete insanity!
Great video! Speed shock is my go to shell , used it 3 seasons in Colorado and no problems yet.
You are correct. Thanks for honest opinions! 😊
I have been running winchester xpert 2/3 stacked for years. When you said the price of the black clouds. I did a double take. I remember when they were released. They were only 20.00 a box. And my standard steel was 10-12.
Its nice to see a reasonably priced stack shell making a come back.
Plating the steel or bismuth like boss uses as new hunter guide's stated helps in lubricity going through the feathers and fat into the meat of the duck.
First I’ve heard that. Boss plates their bismuth because bismuth by itself is brittle and will deform too much and break without the copper coating
@@chevyon37s yes that's correct
@@chevyon37s Less friction = more penetration, it's not that complicated. Zinc or copper plating has more lubricity (less friction) than steel or bismuth on its own. And yea, so it doesn't break down too.
@@chevyon37s Honestly, I've not seen the plating do anything to improve fragmentation in bismuth. Buffering does a lot to improve fragmentation, almost eliminates it. The plating doesn't seem to make a difference.
@@chevyon37s that is a common myth.
Federal already makes a stacked load call sea duck 4&6 and 2&bb but only mollys in Maryland carry’s it
The flight control wad/really a shot cup is designed to get the shot cup off the shot. The rear fins/ acts like a parachute pulling away in flight.
duplex loads.... works great on my hand loaded tss/steel #9/#4 for duck #7/2 geese. speedshok is good cheap steel tho
great info. Thanks
I shoot the fast steel 3inch #3 /1550. In my 20 guage beretta a 400 with the carlson delta series and I shoot geese, ducks no problems and it has a great pattern.
4:50 ok so I'm no expert on shot string, but I've gone down the rabbit hole further than most. So shot string has more to do with energy transfer than it does with time of impact (from first to last pellet). And what you were trying to demonstrate with your arm is not at all how it works. Like the shot is traveling so fast, it doesn't even matter. And there's been several people to do experiments on this over the years, it's the same concept as no matter how fast you swing your shotgun, you can't "stretch out" your pattern. But by having a tighter shot string, the better individual pellets perform. Which is why extended choke tubes are so popular is because they tighten up your shot string.
Which brings me to mixed shot size loads, of which I am not a fan of. When you have two different sizes, the larger of the two is going to be more affected by drag than the smaller one. And when that happens it going to lengthen the shot string and may even cause pellets to collide while in flight leading to poor patterns. Or, worse yet, they collide while still in your barrel.
So many ammo companies are coming out with stack loads now. Can you do a video on stack loads. Like the federal ultra steel migra’s and more?
Proper pattern density and proper lead on your target for the yardage you are shooting is far more important than a shot string.
What type of skeet thrower are you using ? Thanks for your opinion.
Over decoys the cheapest stuff works fine
Would you guys review the citori 825 please I am wondering if I should get the 825, 725, or just the citori it is also just for trap
I couldn't get even pattern distribution with speedshok #4 through my SX4 with the factory chokes at 40 yards. Carlsons Delta LR choke is what it took to get a pattern that still has some gaps but they're small enough to be acceptable. Kent and Fiocchi were far better distribution; Kent being the best.
SPEED-Shok always gets it done
I would like to test shot string length with different chokes.
Muy excelente armas amigos saludos y muy buenos cartuchos 👍🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨
If the petals of the was open and catch wind, the shot will leave the wad. I can assume that the shot leaves the wad just after leaving the barrel.
Heavy Metal is assume but so expensive .
Year ago I loaded a duplex load of 1/4oz No5's over 1oz No3's- in lead; these killed flighting wigeon like a dream. They were loaded this way round as with the smaller shot on the bottom, they would get crushed with the setback on firing. Now with steel being so hard we can load them with the smaller on the bottom. I recently went to a marsh here in England and using a home load 3-1/2" case with 1/2oz No4's under 1oz No2's, and shot 5 wigeon and 3 teal. So duplex loads work, but without the technicalities of 'Surviving Duck Season' ( as mentioned) who knows the advantages?
Lead is NO-GO for waterfowl in the USA. Only non-toxic may be used.
We still waiting on that weatherby Sorix review
What falcon strike pad is everyone running on their sx4?
What do you hear about Otis Arms shotguns that Bobby Guy is raving about?
Where can I buy those Turbo Targets? I googled it and they aren’t popping up anywhere. Thanks!
Migra been doing stacked load
Can you review the GForce two?
Love the videoed and I mean no disrespect by this comment but in a sense you’re comparing apples to oranges. I think if you were to test straight #2 in all three variances and straight #4 in all three the results would change. I’ve ran federal #2 for goose for years. Just a opinion
Sorix review soon?
I’ve been using speedshok for years.
Shooting 3-5 times will show you just how bad and inconsistent factory loads are. The best steel load I’ve ever shot was the federal blue box. More specifically the 2 3/4” 1375fps load.
The real fun begins at @15:00
Great video
For the price of black cloud you might as well just shoot bismuth!
Yea I’ll stay with my rios and Kent’s
Test Norma Wingstrike please
I would rather have no shot string at all. I would rather miss completely than wound a duck and I believe no shot string would be more likely to have a clean miss
Watch surviving duck seasons video on it. It’s comprehensive and shows shot strong doesn’t matter because no birds flying fast enough
Mossberg 935 review
Seems like they're about the same in your tests, probably go with the least expensive one.
Banner ad popping up over the content like old TV? Are you serious, mate?
Just let us shoot lead at $35 a box for a normal $25 box and take that extra $10 and put it towards waterfowl habitat management and development
black clouds only 29$ where i’m at😂
How do you kill a bird with a percentage? I’m guessing it’s pellets that kills the bird.
I’ve patterned black cloud in 6 different guns and it was awful in each one.
browning silver vs retay masai mara
First comment…love your videos, keep shootin
I appreciate the concept of teaching someone vs giving them bread but im tired of no one being willing to take the time to run numbers on these shot shells. The New Hunters Guide tries his best with few resources and Surviving Duck Season got all the fancy resources which ended in a video with 1/10th of the information that we needed (Both are great and so are you by the way). You've got the app, the views for the channel will come, run 1k rounds through that JM Pro and give us the data. Please inquiring minds must know. People will make assertions and assumptions regardless. Heck I bet 15%-30% of the people that watch this prolly figure that federal paid you to say good things about their ammo based off of this.
So you’re saying this test isn’t valid unless he shoots 1000 targets and comes up with a score/percentage?
I think i'll pay 20 cents more a shell for bismuth from Boss. These manufacturers come out with "premium steel" then price is $2 less a boss than Bismuth which is hilarious to me.
no thanks to steel. Have used Boss shells for last 3 seasons- 5, 3/5 in 2 3/4 and 3 inch 3s. They pattern great, lots of pellets and kill.
Too many gimmicks. I have tried expensive shells and cheap shells. Most of the time it is the person holding the shotgun.
Bottom line... Tungsten Super Shot. Period.
marketing BS for a premium price point upsell for the ppl the want to burn money
Speed-shok is over priced. Should be $12 per box. And you can find better stacked loads for cheaper. I shoot migra. And it’s way cleaner to shoot and patterns great.
Migra is junk! Get them wet and you’re gonna have click after click with a whole box!
Not much new here.
For the price of these new steel loads, I’d rather pay a couple more dollars and get a box of your ammo
Maybe @theslowmoguys would do a collaboration?