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I've always bought whatever steel I can find cheapest. It all seems to pattern about the same in my gun, and all kills birds just as dead. If I'm spending that much money on TSS, I'm water swatting to make sure I don't waste it. If I'm water swatting, I might as well shoot steel anyways.
Federal speed shock is one of the most under rated shell in water fowl hunting. I’ve tried ‘em all Kent black cloud heavy x etc. at 30 yards had same results you did. A lot of pellets in circle and hi count at point of impact. Been using them for years now and my shooting percentage has remained very consistent. Plus the price is right. Keep up the great videos big fan.
Totally agreed, I have shot Federal for 40 years, and always go back to it, whenever I change out of curiosity, or a good deal...Federal rules the day, day in and day out-
My kids don't stop pulling the trigger. I can't wait till they can handle the recoil of a 20 ga and can move them up to that and bismuth. But when your 5 old wants to kill ducks and mom says it's OK, the 410 and tss for the win
Since you asked about what else would I like to see for more videos. At the top my list would be roughly the same kind of analysis for upland ammo including a comparison of lead vs steel characteristics and choke size with steel vs lead . Love your channel!
Great idea. Just curious, why would one use steel for upland? I thought waterfowl hunters only stopped using lead due to the ban of hunting lead shot over waterways, so upland would always be fine with lead shot.
@@colin2828 thanks. Last year was the first year I’ve hunted in about 45 years when I was a kid. There was basically no upland ammo available except for Kent FastSteel where I live, so I used that and it worked just fine. 2 weeks ago I found some Prairie Storm but only in #4steel shot but wanted to try it (especially wanted to see if 1600 fps would make a difference). Used that on day one of a hunt and it was like I couldn’t miss. Used #5 lead shot the next day without near the success. Not saying it was all because of which shot I was using but it seemed like it mattered. I’m just looking for what works best and I’m fine using steel if it’s better for me. I’m also going go out and pattern test and do my own comparisons of lead vs steel, shot size, and maybe brand comparisons as well. Thanks for the question.
@@ryanwalsh2995 actually you can use lead on WMA's as long as you are not waterfowl hunting. If you are waterfowl hunting then yes, it is non-toxic shot only. Federal WPA's are non-toxic shot only regardless of which game you are hunting. personally, I am making the switch over to non-toxic for everything I hunt with a shotgun just to avoid the hassle of remembering where I can and can't shot certain types of shot.
Awesome video. It would be cool do a similar video comparing the results with lower end ammo options. Federal Speed Shok, WInchester Xpert, Remington Sportsman, etc. Learning a lot from you - thanks!
The best patterns and performance I've seen out of the cheap ammo was fiocci Dakota county loads. Fed blue box was second and I wouldn't give the xpert away to anyone if they needed ammo.
Yeah... TSS is definitely impressive, but I'm not spending that much on ammo. I did step up to the Boss shells, going with the 3/5 duplex and I'm really impressed with the pattern versus the 3" #2's I had been shooting. I am getting nearly 50% more pellets on target than with the steel.
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Let me compliment you on a very well done video. You did a great job in comparing all aspects of the various ammunition patterning, ballistics and price.
Bismuth all day everyday. It's the most well rounded choice. Based on the results with what you were shooting during the video, I wouldn't waste any money on Black Cloud. Your comment about the Pintail and TSS made sense, and I too might carry two boxes of that ammo in the field for special occasions.
Kent Fasteel 2.0 is the only thing I'll ever run during waterfowl season, no matter how expensive it keeps getting. It runs SUPER clean and the pattern always seems to be consistent
Steve - thank you for taking the time and putting together this awesome video together. Waterfowlers are dying for facts and not just the hearsay we get in the fields from other hunters. Enlightening as always! Cheers
The only thing I wish you have done differently is maybe shoot each brand 3-5x and compare the averages. Might take more time and cost a little more but you’ll have a lot more accurate results. Absolutely love the video regardless!!
Great video Steve ! I’ve always shot lower end steel largely because of what you touched on with the tss you Better be hitting if you’re shooting that. If I felt I was hitting a large percentage of my shots and still wasn’t getting good performance I might make a change.
Greetings from Colorado!! This is a very limited selection to truly justify which shotshell works best. I have been shooting Kent Steel since the day they came out in the late 90s'. They have worked flawless. Lately I have switched to Winchester Blind Side. These shells work excellent. Just my two cents worth!!
I used the Federal Black Cloud TSS 3&9 on conservation goose (meant to use the BB&7) out to 40 yards and it folded geese like a lawn chair. The results were even better when I had the BB&7. I don't hunt waterfowl often, so if I do it will be either the Federal Black Cloud TSS or TSS custom loaded by Apex. I patterned my SBE3 and 28" with several different loads out to 50+ yard using a Carlson's Federal Black Cloud Long Range (full) choke. All patterned well, but the Federal loads beat out the others. Close second was Hevi-Shot XII, which uses a TSS blend pellet to achieve 12 g/cc. My older ammo will only be used for finishing shots. FYI - Spending money on expensive ammo will not make anyone a better shot. Best to get out and do the pattern testing and go shooting at a sporting clays range to become proficient.
The reason the TSS looked so much better is because the target & ballistic gel were stationary. The different size / density pellets fly at different speeds. Therefore, on a moving target you will get more of one type of pellet & less pellets overall. You can even see this in the high speed on the gel, there are two separate impacts of pellets from the same shot. With a fast moving duck that time delay will make a difference.
I have never hunted Fowl. I have never owned a shot gun. I move to Texas to be with my son and this is what he wants to do. Bird Hunt. So what does a good dad do....Start educating the both of us and researching and getting a "RUclipscation". Your videos give me things to think about and encourage me to ask more questions. Thank you for sharing!
Tss should only be used for turkey imo, $6 per shot is just mad. I am so glad I watched this video because I plan on getting an inexpensive steel shot shell for like a dollar per shell. I would actually recommend trying an extra full choke with the steel shot instead of moving up to a more expensive ammo, nice chokes put in more work on target for me at least. I also eat the duck I hunt and I enjoy being able to go through the meat with a strong magnet to get rid of all the little pellets and the fact that bismuth shatters in the meat REALLY sketches me out. I don't need to spend more money at the dentist. Great video have a great day!
Boss makes some amazing bismuth shells. What I like is they sell direct to consumer, so you don’t pay all the extra price hikes from manufacturer to retailer to consumer. They can be had for less than black cloud.
FANTASTIC VIDEO! Man, so many rabbit holes to go down. The energy and velocity rabbit holes are fascinating. If any given pellets are the same size and same weight the faster shot will slow down faster because of air resistance. More speed = more resistance. Less speed = less energy. Faster is not always better. Except that in wing shooting the faster the shot gets to target could be better. And, at the ranges we're operating in, it's not enough to matter. Another common misconception is more pellets = more energy. If a heavier and lighter shot load are both travelling the same velocity, the energy is the same. Energy isn't figured collectively. Each pellet contains X energy, regardless how many pellets are thrown. Yeah, you could maybe argue that if you hit with more pellets, there's more total energy but we have NO idea how many pellets are gonna hit the target. We may hit the target with more pellets of the lighter shot load. Heavier shot load generally = more recoil. Does any of that matter? Not enough difference to make a difference, IMO. All of that to say, you're right. There's always a trade off and you just have to figure out which one makes sense for what you're doing.
“….. you go to the store and there are a lot of options….” What year do you think it is Steve? 2019? In Canada all shelves are empty. Your buy what you can get. Ammo prices have almost doubled and still you can’t find any.
Basically, it comes down to can you shoot or can you not. A beginner may need more shot, but a beginner might not also want to down $2+ a round. A better shooter isn’t going to need as much forgiveness, so wouldn’t need to spend so much to get all of the that shot. Federal is hands down the winner in my eyes, I’ve used it a lot and rarely have an instance where I thought I hit a bird and it kept going. I like Kent FastSteel a lot for the money. Similar price to federal, but you get an extra 100fps. I’d be curious to see a video between it, federal, and the black cloud. More energy down range, similar price and amount of shot.
Steve thank you for putting together this awesome video together. I am a beginner and just started to learn shut guns and ammo. for me it is very confusing information but by watching your videos I start anderstand more and more. Thank you for your time and effort to help people .
Something true 100 years ago with shotguns that’s still true today. The better shooter you become through sporting clay practice, the more ducks you will bring home at the least cost. Ammo choice is important but not as important as a gun and choke that pattern the ammo and your accuracy.
Great video! I’ve been shooting federal blue box and faststeel my whole life until recently I’m done with kent as the 2.0 stuff is just garbage. Blue box it is!! Unless your shooting sub gauge guns or old guns that can’t handle steel than bismuth and tungsten isn’t worth the money. I personally think bismuth is the biggest gimmick in the waterfowl world right now. #9 tungsten will absolutely devastate a duck, but I don’t like eating pellets either.
Excellent video! Just one quick note - the figures quoted as ‘energy’ were actually ‘energy density,’ which is energy divided by the frontal area of the pellet. It gives you a rough estimate of the penetrating power of the pellet (which was largely confirmed by the gel test). A huge experiment back in the 1970’s found that 235 ft.lbs./in2 was sufficient energy density to achieve lethal penetration on mallard-sized targets. All of the ammo you tested met this minimum at 40 yards (the steel 3’s were right at the minimum value). Keep up the good work!
For duck I shoot #4 steel. I hate a #2 shoot. If I do geese hunting I use BB. Steel. Never needed anything else. I use a challenger shell always done good with it.
Nice video. I would like to see a video on reloading steel shot and the difference in velocities by changing a few gr of powder and how it changes the pattern. Thanks
I tried black cloud shells one weekend and gave them away afterwards. The few birds I was able to knock down (knocked feathers off plenty) the black cloud pellets were just stuck under the skin. Seeing them prices I'm glad I bought cases of fiocci Dakota county when it was 9.99 a box...plus they throw consistent 90% patterns out of the choke I use. Ps if you come across any primos dead zone duck chokes (discontinued) buy them. Best 10 dollar chokes I've ever patterned.
Awesome video!, I would love to see a follow up to this answering the question: does barrel length change the results? If you shot a 24 inch barrel vs a 30 inch would you get the same results?
Thank you for the exciting science behind the hobby. When shooting a duck, it all boiled down to experience and timing with some luck. An old-timer probably wouldn’t know the difference between the cartridges. However, Because he carries limited shells, he barely misses. Also, he is a loaner, so he only brings 6 to 12 decoys but still takes greenheads or other drakes home. 🦆🦆
I started using Federal Black Cloud TSS 3&9 this season and the results have been devastating compared to steel or steel/bismuth blend. By mistake I loaded the 3&9 instead of the BB&7 for goose and I folded two of them like lawn chairs at 40 yards. The first with one shot, the second took two. My shotgun is a SBE3 with a Carlson's Black Cloud TSS FULL choke. The rest of the week I used the BB&7 and the goose kept going down and going down hard. Right now I have a friend using the 3&9 on Duck in NY with a Browning Maxus and Carlson's Cremator SKEET choke...shots out to 50 yards on the fly and they are hitting the ground without needing a follow up. I'm sold on spending the money on the good stuff and taking fewer shots. Better ammo will not improve your skills, but if you are on target (and laser focused) the birds will fall easily. You still need to do your part and practice, and that will never change.
Give me more shot. Speed really doesn't matter. If you want to shoot more ducks , learn to shoot & your shot to kill ratio significantly go up. Great video as usual
I use Score 3" 1 1/4oz 1550fps #2 for pretty much everything inside 40 yards. basically hits like standard 3.5" with way less recoil and cost. If they made #1 shot that's all I'd ever buy. lol
I would like to see this redone with maximum performance at longer ranges. For example, a patternmaster duck/goose/extended range choke, Hevi Metal Longer range, and up the range out to 70 yards like these chokes and shots are claiming. Maybe even 3 1/2 loads. They say it's an effective range at 70, so I would be very curious how the wound channels look at that range. I have the above setup on a Beretta A400 xtreme plus. I just need to find a place where I can get out there and try my shots out before the season hits. Great video, very informative. Awesome setup!
Great video man. I always learn more than what I know after watching your videos. I would really like to see that different patterns of different size Carlson choke. I’ve been wanting to get one but I’m still not exactly sure which one I want yet. Thanks
Really good effort with your analysis. When the big switch to non-toxic shot came, the world didn’t end like many of the old timers predicted. We adjusted and changed. For those that did a lot of shooting, I couldn’t justify 3$ a shell regardless of anything else. Patterns are still #1 requirement. 25 years later the dust has settled, Ive been (mostly) shooting the same stuff. When shooting steel , speed is everything, and bigger shot. #2 3”, 1550 FPS ducks and geese., #4 3”,1550 early ducks geese, decoys. The price is reasonable, so you shoot enough to get practical experience, and then confident that #2 will fold a greater Canada goose at 40yards.
@@NikkaPleeease I shoot alot. I'm interested in anything you can add about shooting steel. Because I shoot alot, I can't afford to shoot an lead equivalent non toxic shot. What I have found is that I shoot a little bigger shot size that will pattern at the distance I have to shoot, and get the fastest shot, and 3" to increase shot count ?
@@peterparsons7141 I just wanted to reiterate that speed ISN’T everything when it comes to steel. Sure it’s quicker, but in my personal opinion, with a lot of the lighter loads & higher fps, your sacrificing pellet ct, accuracy, and potentially longer shots. Sweet spot is 1/4oz; 1350-1500fps. Everybody’s gun is diff though, you know? So what do I know… lol
I vote bismuth…. Moderate price, kills em dead, and more pellets on target than steel. The other thing to consider is a similar shot string to to lead that I practice with in the off season. If you aren’t shooting an improved modified with bismuth you’re doing yourself a disservice. Around 35 yards it really falls apart and that little extra constriction really makes a difference
Brings me back to three for three mallards with my 20 gauge 2 3/4” when I was a child.many 12 gauge 2 3/4 Remington 1100’s in the marsh also with cheap steel those days nothing fancy
The price increase in Federal SpeedShok is so disappointing. One season I'm paying $15/box and the next they're asking $25/box. For a moment I thought it was different ammunition...nope
I love speed shok. I shoot #4's and get a lot more bbs on target because they are smaller. It knocks ducks dead out to 50 yards and decoying goose shot in the neck and head are dead before they hit the ground.
My favorite load is the Federal Speed Shoks. I do however on hunts where I get a chance to shoot something I don’t always see I will use Boss 3in 1 1/2oz bismuth loads like I used to kill my tundra swan and pintails
I've always hated black cloud or blind side with the "speciality" pellet shapes. They don't pattern worth anything. Just regular, round pellets do best. Boss is great, I also like the speed shok steel for close range slinging at teal.
Gotta go with the speedshock. The price for performance cant be beaten but the TSS is also not bad, Feel like I would definitely like to use it for Turkey etc. Exactly like how you mentioned it.
My go to load in the duck blind is federal speed shock 3" 1 1/4 Oz. #2 but now I'm considering going to the tss as maybe the third shot in the gun all the time
I bought a box of TSS from rogers last year at just over $300 ($320 i believe) which puts it at 3.20/ shot. Still spendy. But by far knocks them down dead. If someone is a great shot then TSS may be the right choice. Defiantly less cripples. I also have shot the standard black cloud not sold on it. But I got a case of that and a half a case of the TSS so that is what ill be shooting this season.
Read an article a couple years ago on speed shok being great for the price. Now it’s all I use. I kill just as many birds with that as I do when I’m using Kent or black cloud.
I have tried many steel loads. I run a cabelas black Maxx choke tube (cabelas branded carlson cremator) and have tried 9 different loads. The cheap Winchester expert and federal speed shock are the top two on the pattern board. Have taken birds most with them. More premium brands didn't do better, but I also ran a fairly tight choke when I patterned black cloud and that likely hurt its pattern as they prefer less constriction.
Awesome channel thanks for all the reviews. Super helpful I was in the market for another shot gun and your reviews helped me make my mind up. If looking for more content would love to see a video comparing the basic duck ammo against each other. If you’re ever in Washington state on the coast we have pintails coming out of our ears and could get you on some.
Bismuth by far is going to give you a better percentage of kills. Most ducks are killed between 15 and 20 yards. Personally I shoot 1550 ft./s steel BBs and BBB’s. When it was much cheaper, I shot 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 oz #5 tungsten matrix for ducks. Please do a 40 mile an hour cross wind test. #3 and #4 steel will drift 6 to 8 ft off target. On stormy days need BB or BBB. Triple BBs with a velocity of 1550 will compare pretty well to heavy shot #4 and smaller. Thanks
Interesting how the bismuth only penetrated about 1/2” more than the cheap speed shock. And the federal you tested is moving 100 fps faster than Boss I believe. Hard to beat the blue box for the $ I think there’s definitely some hype going on with boss.
On your first testing shot ,you had counted the bbs in the wings ,which is fine and dandy but getting shot in the primaries of the wings won't knock down or kill the bird ,I think that the targets should be remade with the bone and skeletal structure and not feathers . You want to break bones and hit vitals not wing feathers
The TSS with steel combo shot throws a bunch different questions into the results. Comparing combo shots to a single shot is a whole different ballgame. Comparing different metals with different densities is even more confusing and invalidated this entire argument for me with the tungsten combo shell. Now I'm curious what the real purpose of mixing steel with tungsten is.
I shot black cloud for the first time last season. I'm disappointed to see the performance drop off at 40 yards. Maybe I'll save it for the timber this season and use old fashion round shot in the fields. I was thinking of grabbing bismuth for goose hunts, but the performance gain seems marginal. Maybe tugnsten would be justifiable for a Canadian goose hunt, but not a speck hunt. Lots to think about, great video! Would love to see a black cloud vs hex shot vs traditional next!
I quit waterfowl hunting when they banned lead shot. I used to use #4 lead for ducks and #2 lead for geese. I never have shot a single non-toxic shotgun shell and never will.
Going to MO in a few months for conservation order snow geese... I think that Federal "blue box" will suit our group fine. Probably will opt for BB, using a steel-proofed IM / Light Full choke... Great video. Thanks much!
I need a old vs new review with the man the myth the legend Remington 1100. Maybe vs a Benelli or something. Over 4 million sold and first semi auto to get 100 straight in trap….. thanks for the videos.
That TSS doesn’t look like it would leave much meat left, shot concentration is good but when the majority of the meat is torn and riddled by shot. Please tell me the point of the TSS.
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I am already signed up!!
Did it!
Steve, at what distance did you shoot the gel blocks?
Could you do a video on Migra ammunition shells?
I've always bought whatever steel I can find cheapest. It all seems to pattern about the same in my gun, and all kills birds just as dead. If I'm spending that much money on TSS, I'm water swatting to make sure I don't waste it. If I'm water swatting, I might as well shoot steel anyways.
Steel just doesn't penetrate when a duck has it's wings folded in
Yep. Always keep a couple tss Turkey loads just in case I need to water swat a trophy bird at 60 yards 😂
Swatting, is that equivalent to skipping stones?
@@WanderingBobAK shooting birds on the water instead of in the air. It's not fun, but it is harder to miss.
Thats bs @robertshockley9380
Federal speed shock is one of the most under rated shell in water fowl hunting. I’ve tried ‘em all Kent black cloud heavy x etc. at 30 yards had same results you did. A lot of pellets in circle and hi count at point of impact. Been using them for years now and my shooting percentage has remained very consistent. Plus the price is right. Keep up the great videos big fan.
Totally agreed, I have shot Federal for 40 years, and always go back to it, whenever I change out of curiosity, or a good deal...Federal rules the day, day in and day out-
Those tss prices got me wondering if i would even pull the trigger. lol Great video!
I miss too much too shoot those shells
Too much to buy. I’d shoot them all day tho.
My kids don't stop pulling the trigger. I can't wait till they can handle the recoil of a 20 ga and can move them up to that and bismuth. But when your 5 old wants to kill ducks and mom says it's OK, the 410 and tss for the win
Look around online at ammo shops. It’s not that high.
@@duckbrian7973 the tss is. 69.99 for 10
Since you asked about what else would I like to see for more videos. At the top my list would be roughly the same kind of analysis for upland ammo including a comparison of lead vs steel characteristics and choke size with steel vs lead . Love your channel!
Great idea. Just curious, why would one use steel for upland?
I thought waterfowl hunters only stopped using lead due to the ban of hunting lead shot over waterways, so upland would always be fine with lead shot.
We cannot use any lead on public lands here in MN
@@colin2828 thanks. Last year was the first year I’ve hunted in about 45 years when I was a kid. There was basically no upland ammo available except for Kent FastSteel where I live, so I used that and it worked just fine. 2 weeks ago I found some Prairie Storm but only in #4steel shot but wanted to try it (especially wanted to see if 1600 fps would make a difference). Used that on day one of a hunt and it was like I couldn’t miss. Used #5 lead shot the next day without near the success. Not saying it was all because of which shot I was using but it seemed like it mattered. I’m just looking for what works best and I’m fine using steel if it’s better for me. I’m also going go out and pattern test and do my own comparisons of lead vs steel, shot size, and maybe brand comparisons as well. Thanks for the question.
@@ryanwalsh2995 actually you can use lead on WMA's as long as you are not waterfowl hunting. If you are waterfowl hunting then yes, it is non-toxic shot only. Federal WPA's are non-toxic shot only regardless of which game you are hunting. personally, I am making the switch over to non-toxic for everything I hunt with a shotgun just to avoid the hassle of remembering where I can and can't shot certain types of shot.
@@colin2828 Most western states I hunt have banned or plan on banning all lead for hunting.
Awesome video. It would be cool do a similar video comparing the results with lower end ammo options. Federal Speed Shok, WInchester Xpert, Remington Sportsman, etc. Learning a lot from you - thanks!
I agree. For those of us who can’t afford the $3 per shot and up options. Would be great to see a comparison of the different steel choices.
pretty sure hes sponsored by federal lol
The best patterns and performance I've seen out of the cheap ammo was fiocci Dakota county loads. Fed blue box was second and I wouldn't give the xpert away to anyone if they needed ammo.
The most prolific duck hunter i know uses a remington 870 and remington sportsman. Good results. Who knows how many rounds that 870 has shot.
Yeah... TSS is definitely impressive, but I'm not spending that much on ammo. I did step up to the Boss shells, going with the 3/5 duplex and I'm really impressed with the pattern versus the 3" #2's I had been shooting. I am getting nearly 50% more pellets on target than with the steel.
Smart move! Thanks for watching. Hey, I just made a new community where you can view all the YT content plus a whole lot more. This new community is where I primarily engage with viewers, I'd love to see you there 👊 𝙅𝙊𝙄𝙉 𝙏𝙃𝙀 𝙏𝙁𝙇 𝘾𝙊𝙈𝙈𝙐𝙉𝙄𝙏𝙔 (𝙞𝙩’𝙨 𝙛𝙧𝙚𝙚!) targetfocused.link/communitysgref
Let me compliment you on a very well done video. You did a great job in comparing all aspects of the various ammunition patterning, ballistics and price.
Bismuth all day everyday. It's the most well rounded choice. Based on the results with what you were shooting during the video, I wouldn't waste any money on Black Cloud. Your comment about the Pintail and TSS made sense, and I too might carry two boxes of that ammo in the field for special occasions.
Kent Fasteel 2.0 is the only thing I'll ever run during waterfowl season, no matter how expensive it keeps getting. It runs SUPER clean and the pattern always seems to be consistent
Yep! Kent! super X as a second choice, never cared for black cloud,
Steve - thank you for taking the time and putting together this awesome video together. Waterfowlers are dying for facts and not just the hearsay we get in the fields from other hunters. Enlightening as always! Cheers
I would love to see you test the Kent fast steel waterfowl loads on the ballistics gel. That is what I use and the down range velocity is 1560
The only thing I wish you have done differently is maybe shoot each brand 3-5x and compare the averages. Might take more time and cost a little more but you’ll have a lot more accurate results. Absolutely love the video regardless!!
Great video Steve ! I’ve always shot lower end steel largely because of what you touched on with the tss you Better be hitting if you’re shooting that. If I felt I was hitting a large percentage of my shots and still wasn’t getting good performance I might make a change.
Greetings from Colorado!! This is a very limited selection to truly justify which shotshell works best. I have been shooting Kent Steel since the day they came out in the late 90s'. They have worked flawless.
Lately I have switched to Winchester Blind Side. These shells work excellent. Just my two cents worth!!
Steel 6 shot has some of the best performance I've seen on ducks. I've shot Boss, I'm not super impressed for the money but a lot of people like it.
Thank you Steve for such a great job 👏👏👏
I used the Federal Black Cloud TSS 3&9 on conservation goose (meant to use the BB&7) out to 40 yards and it folded geese like a lawn chair. The results were even better when I had the BB&7. I don't hunt waterfowl often, so if I do it will be either the Federal Black Cloud TSS or TSS custom loaded by Apex.
I patterned my SBE3 and 28" with several different loads out to 50+ yard using a Carlson's Federal Black Cloud Long Range (full) choke. All patterned well, but the Federal loads beat out the others. Close second was Hevi-Shot XII, which uses a TSS blend pellet to achieve 12 g/cc. My older ammo will only be used for finishing shots.
FYI - Spending money on expensive ammo will not make anyone a better shot. Best to get out and do the pattern testing and go shooting at a sporting clays range to become proficient.
Boss shells for everything.
The reason the TSS looked so much better is because the target & ballistic gel were stationary. The different size / density pellets fly at different speeds. Therefore, on a moving target you will get more of one type of pellet & less pellets overall. You can even see this in the high speed on the gel, there are two separate impacts of pellets from the same shot. With a fast moving duck that time delay will make a difference.
I have never hunted Fowl. I have never owned a shot gun. I move to Texas to be with my son and this is what he wants to do. Bird Hunt. So what does a good dad do....Start educating the both of us and researching and getting a "RUclipscation". Your videos give me things to think about and encourage me to ask more questions. Thank you for sharing!
Bismuth for value and knock down power. Tss is way to pricey. Maybe hevi 12 if you want tungsten
Tss should only be used for turkey imo, $6 per shot is just mad. I am so glad I watched this video because I plan on getting an inexpensive steel shot shell for like a dollar per shell. I would actually recommend trying an extra full choke with the steel shot instead of moving up to a more expensive ammo, nice chokes put in more work on target for me at least. I also eat the duck I hunt and I enjoy being able to go through the meat with a strong magnet to get rid of all the little pellets and the fact that bismuth shatters in the meat REALLY sketches me out. I don't need to spend more money at the dentist. Great video have a great day!
One more thing to consider is meat preservation
You gotta think having more bbs in the duck may not be the best for harvesting
Would you prefer 3", 2" or 1" shotshell loads? Never went duck hunting, but I'm curious which pellet size would be easier to pluck out of the Duck.
@@joshuachristiansen4253 3 “ number 3 shot is my favorite
Would have liked to see some 3 1/2’ shells to see the difference between 3’ and 3 1/2’
Boss makes some amazing bismuth shells. What I like is they sell direct to consumer, so you don’t pay all the extra price hikes from manufacturer to retailer to consumer. They can be had for less than black cloud.
FANTASTIC VIDEO! Man, so many rabbit holes to go down. The energy and velocity rabbit holes are fascinating. If any given pellets are the same size and same weight the faster shot will slow down faster because of air resistance. More speed = more resistance. Less speed = less energy. Faster is not always better. Except that in wing shooting the faster the shot gets to target could be better. And, at the ranges we're operating in, it's not enough to matter. Another common misconception is more pellets = more energy. If a heavier and lighter shot load are both travelling the same velocity, the energy is the same. Energy isn't figured collectively. Each pellet contains X energy, regardless how many pellets are thrown. Yeah, you could maybe argue that if you hit with more pellets, there's more total energy but we have NO idea how many pellets are gonna hit the target. We may hit the target with more pellets of the lighter shot load. Heavier shot load generally = more recoil. Does any of that matter? Not enough difference to make a difference, IMO. All of that to say, you're right. There's always a trade off and you just have to figure out which one makes sense for what you're doing.
the best bro love them when are you going to do the 20vs20 gas vs inertia pls 😃
I would say you picked the best shotgun on the planet for this video. I might have the same a5 and be a little biased, who knows...
I like to mix the rounds up‼️
A little bit of everything‼️
Helps the pockets‼️
And I get a variety spread‼️
“….. you go to the store and there are a lot of options….” What year do you think it is Steve? 2019? In Canada all shelves are empty. Your buy what you can get. Ammo prices have almost doubled and still you can’t find any.
I would shoot TSS and shot only when sure I can see the target focus. And I shoot an over and under shotgun.
I learned my lesson with steel. Switched to Boss 3 inch 3/5’s
Basically, it comes down to can you shoot or can you not. A beginner may need more shot, but a beginner might not also want to down $2+ a round. A better shooter isn’t going to need as much forgiveness, so wouldn’t need to spend so much to get all of the that shot. Federal is hands down the winner in my eyes, I’ve used it a lot and rarely have an instance where I thought I hit a bird and it kept going. I like Kent FastSteel a lot for the money. Similar price to federal, but you get an extra 100fps. I’d be curious to see a video between it, federal, and the black cloud. More energy down range, similar price and amount of shot.
Steve thank you for putting together this awesome video together. I am a beginner and just started to learn shut guns and ammo. for me it is very confusing information but by watching your videos I start anderstand more and more. Thank you for your time and effort to help people .
Great video. Super informative.
Something true 100 years ago with shotguns that’s still true today. The better shooter you become through sporting clay practice, the more ducks you will bring home at the least cost. Ammo choice is important but not as important as a gun and choke that pattern the ammo and your accuracy.
Great video! I’ve been shooting federal blue box and faststeel my whole life until recently I’m done with kent as the 2.0 stuff is just garbage. Blue box it is!!
Unless your shooting sub gauge guns or old guns that can’t handle steel than bismuth and tungsten isn’t worth the money. I personally think bismuth is the biggest gimmick in the waterfowl world right now.
#9 tungsten will absolutely devastate a duck, but I don’t like eating pellets either.
I've never had a problem using lead #4's and #2's.
The factory goose band choke in my A5 with the mod loves the speed shock number 4s and it works great
Excellent video! Just one quick note - the figures quoted as ‘energy’ were actually ‘energy density,’ which is energy divided by the frontal area of the pellet. It gives you a rough estimate of the penetrating power of the pellet (which was largely confirmed by the gel test). A huge experiment back in the 1970’s found that 235 ft.lbs./in2 was sufficient energy density to achieve lethal penetration on mallard-sized targets. All of the ammo you tested met this minimum at 40 yards (the steel 3’s were right at the minimum value). Keep up the good work!
Federal blue box with a good patterned choke you can go 40yds with no problem. Blue Box No Doubt !!!
For duck I shoot #4 steel. I hate a #2 shoot. If I do geese hunting I use BB. Steel. Never needed anything else. I use a challenger shell always done good with it.
Nice video. I would like to see a video on reloading steel shot and the difference in velocities by changing a few gr of powder and how it changes the pattern. Thanks
I tried black cloud shells one weekend and gave them away afterwards. The few birds I was able to knock down (knocked feathers off plenty) the black cloud pellets were just stuck under the skin.
Seeing them prices I'm glad I bought cases of fiocci Dakota county when it was 9.99 a box...plus they throw consistent 90% patterns out of the choke I use.
Ps if you come across any primos dead zone duck chokes (discontinued) buy them. Best 10 dollar chokes I've ever patterned.
Awesome video!, I would love to see a follow up to this answering the question: does barrel length change the results? If you shot a 24 inch barrel vs a 30 inch would you get the same results?
Thankyou for no bias
Thank you for the exciting science behind the hobby. When shooting a duck, it all boiled down to experience and timing with some luck. An old-timer probably wouldn’t know the difference between the cartridges. However, Because he carries limited shells, he barely misses. Also, he is a loaner, so he only brings 6 to 12 decoys but still takes greenheads or other drakes home. 🦆🦆
I started using Federal Black Cloud TSS 3&9 this season and the results have been devastating compared to steel or steel/bismuth blend. By mistake I loaded the 3&9 instead of the BB&7 for goose and I folded two of them like lawn chairs at 40 yards. The first with one shot, the second took two. My shotgun is a SBE3 with a Carlson's Black Cloud TSS FULL choke. The rest of the week I used the BB&7 and the goose kept going down and going down hard. Right now I have a friend using the 3&9 on Duck in NY with a Browning Maxus and Carlson's Cremator SKEET choke...shots out to 50 yards on the fly and they are hitting the ground without needing a follow up.
I'm sold on spending the money on the good stuff and taking fewer shots. Better ammo will not improve your skills, but if you are on target (and laser focused) the birds will fall easily. You still need to do your part and practice, and that will never change.
Give me more shot. Speed really doesn't matter. If you want to shoot more ducks , learn to shoot & your shot to kill ratio significantly go up. Great video as usual
Real talk
Copper plated bismuth direct from Boss is what I have switched to, and is much cheaper than other bismuth.
I use Score 3" 1 1/4oz 1550fps #2 for pretty much everything inside 40 yards. basically hits like standard 3.5" with way less recoil and cost. If they made #1 shot that's all I'd ever buy. lol
just steel and i think Score i s only available in Canuckistan.
I would like to see this redone with maximum performance at longer ranges. For example, a patternmaster duck/goose/extended range choke, Hevi Metal Longer range, and up the range out to 70 yards like these chokes and shots are claiming. Maybe even 3 1/2 loads. They say it's an effective range at 70, so I would be very curious how the wound channels look at that range.
I have the above setup on a Beretta A400 xtreme plus. I just need to find a place where I can get out there and try my shots out before the season hits.
Great video, very informative. Awesome setup!
Great video man. I always learn more than what I know after watching your videos. I would really like to see that different patterns of different size Carlson choke. I’ve been wanting to get one but I’m still not exactly sure which one I want yet. Thanks
Really good effort with your analysis. When the big switch to non-toxic shot came, the world didn’t end like many of the old timers predicted. We adjusted and changed. For those that did a lot of shooting, I couldn’t justify 3$ a shell regardless of anything else.
Patterns are still #1 requirement. 25 years later the dust has settled, Ive been (mostly) shooting the same stuff.
When shooting steel , speed is everything, and bigger shot. #2 3”, 1550 FPS ducks and geese., #4 3”,1550 early ducks geese, decoys.
The price is reasonable, so you shoot enough to get practical experience, and then confident that #2 will fold a greater Canada goose at 40yards.
Speed is NOT everything when shooting steel…
@@NikkaPleeease I shoot alot. I'm interested in anything you can add about shooting steel.
Because I shoot alot, I can't afford to shoot an lead equivalent non toxic shot.
What I have found is that I shoot a little bigger shot size that will pattern at the distance I have to shoot, and get the fastest shot, and 3" to increase shot count ?
@@peterparsons7141 I just wanted to reiterate that speed ISN’T everything when it comes to steel. Sure it’s quicker, but in my personal opinion, with a lot of the lighter loads & higher fps, your sacrificing pellet ct, accuracy, and potentially longer shots. Sweet spot is 1/4oz; 1350-1500fps. Everybody’s gun is diff though, you know? So what do I know… lol
The only thing I’ve found with bismuth is it’s got to be choked tighter than lead shot
I vote bismuth…. Moderate price, kills em dead, and more pellets on target than steel. The other thing to consider is a similar shot string to to lead that I practice with in the off season. If you aren’t shooting an improved modified with bismuth you’re doing yourself a disservice. Around 35 yards it really falls apart and that little extra constriction really makes a difference
Would like to see an A5 Hunter 3inch vs Benelli Montefeltro/M2 comparison video.
Thought on not counting pellets that hit the feathers of the wings and not the actual bone structure?
Best duck load video i have ever seen by far
I use speed shock regularly, but if I ever get a swan tag, I’ll spend the money on the tss for sure
Brings me back to three for three mallards with my 20 gauge 2 3/4” when I was a child.many 12 gauge 2 3/4 Remington 1100’s in the marsh also with cheap steel those days nothing fancy
Speed shok is my go to. Good price to performance.
Great vid and much needed. A lot of people do a vid about one of these not multiple. Much appreciated
The price increase in Federal SpeedShok is so disappointing. One season I'm paying $15/box and the next they're asking $25/box. For a moment I thought it was different ammunition...nope
It’s steel shot and we are nearing duck season there’s not a lot of options 😂
I love speed shok. I shoot #4's and get a lot more bbs on target because they are smaller. It knocks ducks dead out to 50 yards and decoying goose shot in the neck and head are dead before they hit the ground.
I reload and am sold on 1 ounce of 3s at 1550ish. Over decoys and out to 40 through an ic or mod choke they are deadly.
My favorite load is the Federal Speed Shoks. I do however on hunts where I get a chance to shoot something I don’t always see I will use Boss 3in 1 1/2oz bismuth loads like I used to kill my tundra swan and pintails
I seem to miss or cripple alot of ducks using the blackcloud.
But I crush them consistently with Kent faststeel and Winchester!
Plus way cheaper
My favorite duck load is a Boss shot shells 2 3/4” #4 1 1/4oz. Same payload as most 3” steel loads, and kills better. I’m never going back to steel.
I've always hated black cloud or blind side with the "speciality" pellet shapes. They don't pattern worth anything. Just regular, round pellets do best. Boss is great, I also like the speed shok steel for close range slinging at teal.
glad your back making videos. great info
I want to see a video where Steve shoots his limit out of one group of ducks
Gotta go with the speedshock. The price for performance cant be beaten but the TSS is also not bad, Feel like I would definitely like to use it for Turkey etc. Exactly like how you mentioned it.
I was hoping I would see the Winchester Super X shells in this video as I primarily use those shells
I haven't been impressed with the super x shells, if you look at the actual pellets they are very deformed and some of them are hollow.
My go to load in the duck blind is federal speed shock 3" 1 1/4 Oz. #2 but now I'm considering going to the tss as maybe the third shot in the gun all the time
I bought a box of TSS from rogers last year at just over $300 ($320 i believe) which puts it at 3.20/ shot. Still spendy. But by far knocks them down dead. If someone is a great shot then TSS may be the right choice. Defiantly less cripples. I also have shot the standard black cloud not sold on it. But I got a case of that and a half a case of the TSS so that is what ill be shooting this season.
Yea I would be good with the Federal, it did great for the price. Federal really surprised me.
Read an article a couple years ago on speed shok being great for the price. Now it’s all I use. I kill just as many birds with that as I do when I’m using Kent or black cloud.
look into the speed loss of the steel plays a huge roll in kill.
Black Cloud or Hevi-Shot is what I've used for years in my Rem 1100 2.75
I have tried many steel loads. I run a cabelas black Maxx choke tube (cabelas branded carlson cremator) and have tried 9 different loads. The cheap Winchester expert and federal speed shock are the top two on the pattern board. Have taken birds most with them. More premium brands didn't do better, but I also ran a fairly tight choke when I patterned black cloud and that likely hurt its pattern as they prefer less constriction.
From personal experience Plain Black Cloud works better than Black Cloud high velocity
Awesome channel thanks for all the reviews. Super helpful I was in the market for another shot gun and your reviews helped me make my mind up. If looking for more content would love to see a video comparing the basic duck ammo against each other. If you’re ever in Washington state on the coast we have pintails coming out of our ears and could get you on some.
Extrordinary effort making this video. Well done Sir 👏👏
While I do want a bird in hand... I'm not super keen trying to pick out 89 pellets from a bird.
Bismuth by far is going to give you a better percentage of kills. Most ducks are killed between 15 and 20 yards. Personally I shoot 1550 ft./s steel BBs and BBB’s. When it was much cheaper, I shot 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 oz #5 tungsten matrix for ducks. Please do a 40 mile an hour cross wind test. #3 and #4 steel will drift 6 to 8 ft off target. On stormy days need BB or BBB. Triple BBs with a velocity of 1550 will compare pretty well to heavy shot #4 and smaller. Thanks
Been wanting to do this myself but don’t wanna spend $100-$200 just to test ammo out. So glad you spent the time AND money so we don’t have to!
Interesting how the bismuth only penetrated about 1/2” more than the cheap speed shock. And the federal you tested is moving 100 fps faster than Boss I believe. Hard to beat the blue box for the $ I think there’s definitely some hype going on with boss.
On your first testing shot ,you had counted the bbs in the wings ,which is fine and dandy but getting shot in the primaries of the wings won't knock down or kill the bird ,I think that the targets should be remade with the bone and skeletal structure and not feathers . You want to break bones and hit vitals not wing feathers
The TSS with steel combo shot throws a bunch different questions into the results. Comparing combo shots to a single shot is a whole different ballgame. Comparing different metals with different densities is even more confusing and invalidated this entire argument for me with the tungsten combo shell. Now I'm curious what the real purpose of mixing steel with tungsten is.
I shot black cloud for the first time last season. I'm disappointed to see the performance drop off at 40 yards. Maybe I'll save it for the timber this season and use old fashion round shot in the fields. I was thinking of grabbing bismuth for goose hunts, but the performance gain seems marginal. Maybe tugnsten would be justifiable for a Canadian goose hunt, but not a speck hunt. Lots to think about, great video! Would love to see a black cloud vs hex shot vs traditional next!
I quit waterfowl hunting when they banned lead shot. I used to use #4 lead for ducks and #2 lead for geese. I never have shot a single non-toxic shotgun shell and never will.
Just like they wanted you to do
Why do you not want to shoot anything but lead? This is educational for me.
Going to MO in a few months for conservation order snow geese... I think that Federal "blue box" will suit our group fine. Probably will opt for BB, using a steel-proofed IM / Light Full choke... Great video. Thanks much!
I need a old vs new review with the man the myth the legend Remington 1100. Maybe vs a Benelli or something. Over 4 million sold and first semi auto to get 100 straight in trap….. thanks for the videos.
That TSS doesn’t look like it would leave much meat left, shot concentration is good but when the majority of the meat is torn and riddled by shot. Please tell me the point of the TSS.
You have to take into account that you pulled the last tss shot to the right. It would of performed the best by far if it was centered
Boss ammo all the way. Incredible patterns, Bismuth bulk for only $335. I shoot geese with their 3/5 shot 2/34, my fav shells
Best is the handload. Seriously. Night and day difference.