Cheap Retro-Fit Roller Lifters - Any Good?
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2022
- Ive been getting lots of emails and messages about these cheap retro-fit SBC roller lifters, So I bought a set to check them out! Here's What I found!
These are found online on Ebay and Amazon under various brands but they seem to be all the same.
Comment Below if you have any questions!
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Thanks for showing folks an actual reason instead of "just because'' why cheap parts is not always the best.
Oh hey man, we all watch the same videos apparently haha
Disappointed he didn't show how easy to break the bar of the Comp lifter...
I respect your mechanic hands bro 🙌🏽
Yeah! No need to be embarrassed by hard working hands.
Hi. It's good to see someone else with Canadian working hamburger hands. Don't apologize for them. Love the videos very well done.
Thanks for this video! I recently decided to upgrade my engine to a retrofit roller cam. The terrible reviews of these offshore lifters scared me away from going with them, but I’ll admit I’d been toying with the idea of buying a set and seeing how bad they really are. Glad to see you took that bullet for the rest of us!
Thanks man and your not the only one whos been wondering about these. Junk
@@cuttersperformance Hey, I emailed you yesterday to ask a couple questions. Just letting you know if you weren't aware. Thanks
@@cuttersperformanceyou ever see the solid rollers, I wanna know if those are just as bad
Another awesome video Pat. Helped me out huge... cause as you know I'm buying everything for my vortec roller top end right now so huge thanks for putting in all the hard work to get this content out. I know there's a lot of gear heads out there like me that appreciate it big time.
Thanks Brother!
I agree never skimp on the internal parts almost made that mistake with generic hydraulic lifters. Thank goodness I wised up and had my local shop get me a good quality set to put in my 383.
I’m slowly working my way through your videos, I just finished watching you and Nick, you guys make a great team, onto the next video, Keep up the great work.👍🇨🇦
Like always man, thank you for the info and the research you do on your own buck. Much appreciated.
Thanks man i appreciate that!
I have been running an Isky flat tappet cam and lifters since the year 2000 and it's been great. Procharged 355 chevy.
Thanks for putting this into perspective I've been wanting to upgrade my small block Chevy thanks for going into detail on why these are not the desired route to go on a budget build.
Great video! I’ve even had some top name brands fail on me. Trust me, it’ll cost a ton of money tearing down the engine to find what other damage has been done by the failure. Stick to the known brands, and do some research. I bought a new cam and lifters from a reputable company, but after researching the latest problems with lifters that are out on the market, I went back to a brand of lifters that I’ve used in the past with great results, and gave away the lifters that came with the cam. I’ve had no problems so far, and the lifters give me the added low end my engine needs
Thank you for this. I’m getting close to rebuilding my late father in law’s 67 327 (sitting for 30years)for my wife. I don’t want her to have to worry about old tech so I’m going new top end,roller lifters,along with other things like electronic ignition,etc. I definitely don’t want to drill the block for oem rollers but the link bar scares me time I see it. Although I would never put Chineseium in it I’m still really worried about the quality of even the top name parts today (2023).
I wouldn't cheap out on an oil pan either. I just put a brand spankin new Doorman oil pan on a 5.9 Magnum. Luckily I had to turn the engine over to get it on #1 before I installed the distributor. To my horror, some of the rods were hitting the inside of the pan. I ended up buying a used OEM pan off Ebay. I noticed that the steel used on the Doorman pan was thinner than the OEM pan. I really don't like using Doorman anything tbh. I only use Doorman parts when there's just no other options that are cost effective. I'm just really,really glad that I found out before I installed the engine. It's going in a 2000 Dodge Durango and the engine has to be removed to change the pan.
Man I hear that, ive been burned by Dorman stuff before aswell. Some of their repair peices are decent but as a whole not great quality
dorman is dookie.
Glad to see this. I always avoid Chinese if possible. Can’t be hood on cam if rollers aren’t staying square to lobe. Chattering back and forth.
Good video on always buying a quality part where its needed.
Careful running the factory “Dog bone” setup with cams above .560” lift or .373” lobe lift! The lifter can drop down too far on the heal of the lobe causing the dog bone to pop off!
Crane used to sell extended top HR lifters for higher lift HR cams.
Awesome channel! Thanks for your effort
I’m running a cheap set of Chineseim roller rocker on my small block for just over 6000 miles. Other them having to clearance them for the spring retainers they have been doing a good job so far.
Did you find your lifters where as loose in the link bars as well?
Also on a factory block using retro lifters and higher lifts the shrouded wheel roller lifters are a better choice. It is because the oil hole inside the lifter bore can become exposed and when that happens will bleed down oil pressure.
Those Chinesium lifters with the extra .001" clearance will also contribute to an oil pressure drop especially if the lifter bores already have wear in them. Anyone chasing why your oil pressures aren't what they should be, those lifters bores and or those under sized lifters could be the culprit if you know the crank clearances are aren't the issue.
Thanks for the insight, I usualy go for the cheap sutff, but not this
You have working man hands. No need to hide them. Good video!
I have a set of Chinese lifters in my built BBC and seems to run fine. For now, no problems.. but is a new build..
You da real MVP, P-CP!
Hi, You have Mechanic hands because you work hard in your field! I have been doing this work for over 50 yrs. and it took me till 25 yrs. ago to start wearing nitrile gloves. My hands were so beat up and sore I had to do something. I tried a lot of things but wearing gloves saved my hands. I know it's a pain in the ass, but you need your hands brother. I still forget to wear them at times but most of the time I wear them especially when working with solvents. Take care of you hands brother so you can keep on wrenchin!! Outstanding channel keep up the videos, thanks!
I have a set of new, very mild, 260ish duration Comp *am lifters, springs and cam. One lifter bleeds down quicker than the rest and is noisy, reduced when warm but still noticeable. I'm not happy but rocker arm and valve stem seem okay so far. I'll probably eventually replace the cam and lifter set but it's in a daily used work vehicle, I can't afford the down time to change it out.
Seems to be a common issue these days
I build engines (race boat and race car) hp and stock. It amazes me how many people want to cheap out on internal parts so they can get the 4 barrel carb and intake. I insist they spend the money on internal parts and change the bolt on stuff as the budget permits.
Maybe I didn't listen clear -but I didn't hear from U about main problem of this cheap lifters. When they have loose links -they can (and do) rotate slightly and bottom roller starts slipping instead of rotating -this makes little flat surfaces on bottom roller. After that your camshaft starts hitting by that flat spots and loose its shape and smoothness .
Have you considered pressing the rivets down to tighten them? And wouldn't the cam lobes tend to self-align the lifters taking up the slop and preventing them from wobbling?
Still I certainly wouldn't use those based on your analysis of the lifters' internals.
Great information, sir.
Great info!
There is almost zero budget friendly options for a performance camshaft these days, any new flat tappet cam you can buy right now will come with bad lifters and some people have even been running into hardness issues with some of the cheaper camshafts, and if you decide to spend the big bucks on a high dollar name brand retro fit roller set up you will rewarded by having lifters that bleed down instantly after shutdown and make noise on every start up, and some people have even had issues with the lifter plungers collapsing and getting stuck in the bottom of the bore. Right now it is extremely difficult to build a high performance engine with parts that will actually last, whether you buy the cheap stuff or the expensive stuff, all the manufacturers are putting out garbage products.
Your 100% correct man, its pretty sad
I'm late but the #2 camshaft is the ticket. Put the intake lobe Centerline on 104 atdc. That will work.
Stoked to see this
Thanks Jim!
@@cuttersperformance thanks for buying those and then sacrificing them for us! I’ve had moments of weakness and took hard look at those lifters, not going to lie... you get what you pay for
@Jim H. I appreciate that! I debating wasting the money on a set but I know guys have been wondering, and I just had to know. Saving at least one guys engine makes it worth it!
Glad you made that video I'll never buy any cheap lifters that's for sure I got a question I have a 350 4 bolt main block out of a truck 1975 when I remove the Pistons there was no ridge in the top of the block the Pistons just pop straight out the crank looked good barons look good is that a good engine to build for a 383 if not to you what's the best 350 block to use and heads
Its always a good idea to have the block taken to the machine shop and checked for cracks.
If you're worried about the block, you can also have them sonic check it before its bored to .030 (assuming its stock bore now)
If you had to pick another block to build a stroker, I would choose a late model 638 or 880 roller block and build it using a 6 inch rods instead of a 5.7 (this is due to the later blocks having a slightly shorter cylinder that can cause a piston rock with a 5.7)
What's your budget? Is there enough money for balancing, machine work, and high quality aftermarket heads? The engine sounds like it's in fantastic shape. You may just want to get a good quality rebuild kit and some restored Vortec heads.
Cheap is cheap. Damage is damage. Take your medicine if you cheap the Health of your engine. Link bars that are making loud noises are not built with tight tolerances and quality so they will also wear faster. Save money over the long run by spending more up front. Even if you have to wait an extra month to buy them. Good video.
yeah, never skimp out on internals especially lifters, push rods and valve springs! there's even cheap Chinese pistons and rings out there these days! it's all bad news!
Personal experience?
@@johndelta00 no actually just common sense after years of building engines and becoming familiar with different name brand and off name parts! i haven't had too many major problems but you can pretty easily tell by inspecting parts if they are quality made or not! also the old saying you get what you pay for definitely holds true!
@@rustybritches6747at best you get what you pay for. Often times you get even less.
@@rustybritches6747 you didn't say anything. Just a guess without experience.
Lol. Man , that's just Bad.... Thanks for all your time and knowledge shared. You have helped me tremendously Bruhda.... on my whole build.
Appreciate that man! I'm glad you enjoy the videos
Thanks for the info Pat and using your hard earned funds for science!
I have a set of Lunati retrofit roller hydraulic lifters that are the same as the link bar won't let the lifter be taken apart. They was $$$$ five years ago.
Thats wild, not a great design especially when you spend big money
try the LS HyLift Johnson Lifters A-2148 lifters.
They're usually a tick over $100 a set.
I have them with the circle. Real nice lifter.
Where are they made?
@@carlt6932 Muskegon Michigan
Any thoughts on the crower cam saver lifters???
Reminds me of Rhoads lifters, those things are really loose inside
Do you have a part number for a good set of steinless steel Howard retrofit roller lifters
GM made LS7 lifters are great, cheap, available on Ebay- just make sure you're dealing with a trusted dealer. This is why you need to know if you have a roller block before you buy a cam and lifters. Theres no reason to buy link bar lifters if you have a roller block.
How much lift are the OE 5.7 and Ls7 lifters good for? I thought the 5.7 lifters had a Max lift of around .530’ish?
I have a question. Could you drill out the link bar rivet out of those cheap Chinese jobs or any other link bar style lifter and make a stronger link bar with thicker material and use a another rivet or some other fastening device to make that stronger?
I bought a Howards roller cam kit for my ford 69-302 years ago and you dont cheap out in areas of parts and dependability of the motor. But I want to ask , On the china rollers can you press the pin down more and get a tighter fit on the link bar? or is the fact that the spring in the lifter just no good and dont waste your money? Good comparison video though.
Great video. What is the maximum lift you would use with the ls7 lifters and the spider tray?
You can typically run up to .375 lobe lift with the 87+ roller setup
So about .600 lift if using a 1.6 rocker arms
Keep lift under .580
Develop a way to use the one spider setup in a non roller block
Those are working hands never be ashamed of working hands.....
Why do most say that a SBC Hydraulic Roller can't 'RPM' like an LS Hydraulic Roller ? In the SBC, is it the cam core size ? Longer push rod ?, Increased Valve Angle ? a combination of the 3 ? (unless there is more I am forgetting such as cam centerline, deck etc ?). Just a thought, as I hear many say that even short travel hydraulics on a SBC is nearly impossible to see 7500 RPM cleanly without going solid and 7500 RPM is nothing for even a stock-ish LS hydraulic setup.
im wondering if they would handle a more factory engine application stock springs with a lunati high efficiency cam
I would stay away, they are pretty crappy
What do you think about the summit ls7 lifters
Let me tell you from a self admitted fuck up. I installed them, had motor running about 3-5 times for about 30 seconds to a min reved to maybe 4500 rpm and one link bar broke and probably destroyed my cam because the lifter turned 180* in the bore. I haven’t looked yet due to me being sick too my stomach when seeing it. Thank got i had a intake gasket leak or I probably wouldn’t have seen it when I did
What did you find? It’s funny I found your post. I watched him break the link bar and thought it was silly, there would never be lateral stress enough to do that. And now I learn I am wrong.
I guess I’m going to go flat tappet. 😬
I wonder if I throw a brick on top if it will keel the spider in place well enough🤔
Have you ever tried using regular Hyd roller lifters with the dog bone and hold them down with the Moroso lifter baffle?? We were talking about this the other night. Now I have used regular solid rollers on a Hyd roller cam and we are about to put them in a enduro engine to run in the Lonestar 600 but we are going to put about 300 laps on it before then and see how that holds up.
No but i see what your thinking there. You will for sure have fitment issues with the dog bones on a pre 86 block as the lifter bosses are not machined flat
@@cuttersperformance yeah I was thinking of setting it in the Bridgeport and just give them a little trim then give it a try. Build a lot of dirt engines so good real world test bed. Oh and you have my son hung up on building a vortec headed 400 lol
@@garydent6056so, how did it work out?
What are your thoughts on reusing the stock 882 block lifers from a factory roller cam block?
Lower mileage ones I have reused with mildish cams with no issues
I have a 602 crate engine that was recently just re sealed by dirt series. Got it for cheap $$$ to use in a asphalt Hobby stock class so I can swap shit out in it. Now I read that these 602 crate engines are roller lifter blocks with hydraulic flat tap cam in them My ?? To u sir is what can / should I do to get the most out of this engine 9.2:1 max comp rule. It’s 3/8 short right track 6400-6800 rpm any power suggestions are greatly appreciated
Nice, good info. Never would touch the chinese lifters myself, but good for those who were thinking about it.
Probably will be going to Howards for my cam and components since its just across the lake from me in Wi.
I think alot of guys were alsing due to shortages.
I figured I would sacrifice one set and possibly save at least one guys engine!
Howards are great!
Thanks for checking out my video
For sure, hopefully someone sees this. Even one saved engine is better than none. Hopefully, soon I'll be lpoking for cams, but that will be another inner battle with myself on which, and when. Keep up the great work!
Myvintageiron praised Howards because when he degreed their cams, their were more accurate than others. Sure, others would be within range, but from what he observed, Howards were dead nuts accurate.
That's good info to know, thanks! Always heard good things from Howards with those that have used them. Not sure why they aren't more popular.
So if i want to use a roller cam in a non roller block, all i need is some linkbar lifters?
I'm running the howards 91164s. They're alright but noisy when cold. I called. Tried the various preloads they told me to adjust to. Nothing helped. For the first 10 minutes of running they are just noisy until the oil warms a little. They have flow the whole time... But that's what pushed me to get a 638 block for the 388... Don't want to deal with any more noise. But now I'm looking at those solid roller morels for LS engines that appear to work with the factory dog bones (and LS trays)... Factory style street solid roller has a nice ring to it lol.
Hell yeah!
@@cuttersperformance Yeah haven't committed yet though. Seems like I'd need a custom grind to work with the retention plate for a solid roller in a roller block. We'll see. Keep up the great videos though!
So the LS7 lifters will work in the old-school block? Good to know
They will work in the 86+ blocks (roller blocks) and vortecs
Do you have recommendations on a hydraulic flat tappet lifters ?
Just for a mild truck cam.
Seems like there’s a lot of failures last couple years.
Tried many brands of lifters myself and my first choice would be Johnson lifters!! Howard's are pretty good as well!! Or if factory roller block the stock lifters seem to hold up pretty good as well!!
I have been having lifter issues with several flat tappet engines I built. Different cam companies with bad lifters. After a ton of research this is what I found to fix the problems and have had none since. Isky is #1. Johnson and Delphi are both excellent lifters. Johnson doesn't make flat tappet lifters anymore. I did find some NOS on ebay and they are genuine. If you go for delphi, make sure they are genuine. Delphis have a hardened face with a ring near the face that can easily be seen from the side. Avoid comp cams. Fun fact. There are only 2 major manufacturers of lifters left in the USA, Delco/Delphi and Hylift/Johnson. Isky, Crower, Morel also make their own excellent lifters. Mellings is an import lifter with stock and performance lifters with mixed results. I suspect comp cams gets their lifters from mellings. If your truck is going to stay below 6000 rpm, go with the Delphi and you won't have any issues. Have a great day.
Glad to know. I have seen a few videos, and never saw as many disasters as Comp Cams. However, I was never sure if Comp sucks, or since Comp is huge, they are bound to make more duds.
That in mind, some automotive companies make millions of lifters a year with few duds.
I have heard Isky is usually a winner.
@@colejohnson3705
I have a set of those hard faced Delphis (labeled as GM lifters from Summit - brown box) on a mild Comp XE256H 😬
353 SBC on a 93 K1500 pickup.
I'm still tuning it but I'm about 550 miles in (lots of idle time) and a little over a year since break in. Engine never sees over 5k rpm.
Hopefully the mild setup and the conventional Driven oil (BR then HR 10w30) will protect the lobes and lifter faces.
It's running well so far.
Gotta get the x-fer case rebuilt so I'm ready for winter and then I can start DDing it.
Johnson lifters are really good also
Thank You !!!
I would like to buy a set of the vortec conversion beehive spring kit from you
Currently out of stock, hopefully by early spring they will be available
I used Crane on a 302 and they are worn and need to be replaced at a 140,000 miles. I will try Howard this next time.
140k miles is decent for a performance lifter. But howards makena quality product, no doubt
I fell for the China lifters. Drove it about 10 miles and took it out. Ls. You have to pull the heads
Lifters are like tires!! You just don't cheap out on those things 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I keep seeing these on Amazon and Ebay, but I've yet to move on from flat tappet cams. I was wondering what the quality would have been like, now I know! Definitely wouldn't be buying them. I have a sealed bag in my tool box of solid roller lifters for a SBC that someone gave me, they don't have link bars, but appear to have holders on the side for them.
Your not the only one who is curious! Been getting alot of emails due to shortages of good parts. Not worth the risk on these
lots of hot rodders are posting vids about new hydraulic lifters failing during break in. they will only use roller cams, now. I want to try a $98 Summit 1102, in my 305. I'm thinking about re-using my stock flat tappet lifters. the engine only has about 60k miles. it's very tight. what do you think about that?
Best bet would be to get yourself a brand new set of AC delco lifters
@@cuttersperformance Thank you. Imma try it❤🚗🚓🚓🚓
So whats your opinion of the more expensive lifters and which is the best?
Morel lifters (or anyone that sells rebranded moral lifters) Howards, for example
That's why I buy American or Canadian made parts.
I also don't mind buying many Japanese, South Korean, or western European made parts.
Which retro fit roller lifters do you recommend what name it's for a 406sbc
Howards makes good stuff 👌
I was hoping you ran them. My brother bought a set for a 302. I refused to use them but im not even sure the engine wouldve ran or ran long with them.
Not worth the risk
@@cuttersperformance that was my exact thought when we opened them. I'd honestly be surprised if an engine ran with them in there. If it did, I'm sure not for long.
@aaadamt964 some guys claim they are using them, noisy but they "work". Ive also seen where they snap and wipe out the cam
thanks for inform us, could u give us the serial number to search in amazon? cheers
HI have you ever fitted a factory roller in a non roller block ?
No just retro fit cams
what happens if you use hydraulic roller lifters on a solid roller lifter cam?
Thats a good question, ive never done it. You can run solids on a Hydraulic cam (got tight lash them) but ive never ran Hydraulics on a solid
@@cuttersperformance I have an new old stock SBC retrofit 1990s comp cams billet solid roller 12-700-8 but I dont want a manual valve adjust, if hydraulic rollers can be used I would consider it!
There has to be a cheaper alternative. I get junk is junk but you know damn well 90% of the (good) retro lifters ain't made here in the USA. Gota tell you I'm wanting to build a 383 stroker for my 1989 OBS chevy buy the parts are higher than the balls on a giraffe. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on a Blueprint Engine. By the time you pay for machining and parts you'll have more $ in it than a NEW engine from them will cost. You get a new block and heads it's a roller cam setup with a good warranty and has been Dyno'd and comes with a the Dyno sheet. Hell, i can get a brand new L31 Vortec from Chevy with a 100,000 warranty for $4600 delivered to my door. Drop in a new cam and intake manifold and timing chain set for around 5k you have a brand new engine with no problems.
A company would sell a ton if they made a good get set of retro fits with a price point somewhere in between the ebays and the expensive ones
Heard the cams are not heat treated and are being smoked in a week
Scary stuff!
I got many ROLLER LIFTERS ... vortec from a Salvage yard
$1.00 each
GM Factory vortec lifters from a Salvage yard $1.00 each
Nice video. Incredibly informative.
All Chinese products are terrible.
Great job 👏🏼
Actually the link bar is only there mostly when both lifter are not lifting. Gm just use's a plastic case to hold them on a lot of there engines.
This issue is, is that they are super sloppy. The plastic case, like on an LS engine, is stug around the lifter to it and can not wiggle when it's on the heel lf the lobe
What about the roller tip/bearing? How did it look?
Good question! That part missed the video
It looked ok on a visual level and same size .700" roller as most.
And spun ok aswell
@@cuttersperformance I wonder about the metal quality. I have a set I bought a few years ago for a Mopar. Really need to have a way to check hardness I imagine. That link bar seems soft and sloppy like you showed. 😆
As soon as you showed the slop on the link bars I was done no hope for those.
WOW, asking to wreck a roller motor with those Chynna JUNK parts, and it's not just the lifters,alot of JUNK new parts coming from chynna, and ya gotta wait for the parts and cross your fingers that what you got doesn't fail.
Have you ran the summit 8803 cam yet
Not yet! But I will be in youtube 355
Grubby mechanic hands are expected on a video about engines!
Kinda funny how the cheap Chinesium lifters still splurged on snap ring retainers, while Big Name Premium Expensive American Made Comp lifters use a paper clip.
Actually, the comps in the video have sprial locks, but I know what your saying. The comp hydraulic flat tappet lifters have just the wire clips
@@cuttersperformance Say, have you ever tried Rhoades lifters? The flat ones? I wonder if they work as advertised.
wish would have compared hydraulic lifter to hydraulic lifters. Apple and oranges
Lol all this cheap too good to be true race parts make me weary , glad I never brought any and thank you for the vid !
If you really wanted to make a new link bar that's thicker and that might help with the slop but at that point the time into its not worth it
You should do a hardness test on those Chinese lifters. I couldn't stop laughing at the 655 minute mark
Was it the cow milking thing I did with the lifters? Hahaha
It was that coupled with how loud those Chinese lifters are
I buy high performance products based on 2 things ...country of origin and reliability. For roller rockers and Lifters, something this vitally important to the longevity of any high performance engine there is a couple of names to Remember Morel for lifters and T&D Machine or Jesel....there were a couple of other options but I think they sold out to China or just stopped making them. No offense to those who use import parts....but I went to great lengths to be dead certain all the internals in my both our Engine programs are BUILT WITH PRIDE IN THE GOOD OLD USA.
do u have a part number
for sbc 406
makes a guy just want to install a solid flat tappet, there's less to go wrong and they're cheaper than any roller or hydraulic.
those offshore rollers . The internals look like OEM Ford "style" .
So what retro rollers do you recommend?
Howards or lunati (both actually made by Morel)
I knew Howard’s were made by Morel, but I wasn’t sure about Lunati. Thanks for helping confirm my suspicions!
Patt I have used these lifters for 20,000 miles and no problems whatsoever
Thats very surprising 😮
Whats your oil pressure like with these lifters ? Are you using a mild cam ?
Fantastic video. Clearly shows the garbage that is being imported. Stay as far away from them as possible.
I like defile lifters from Howard cam's. I don't trust comp. To many bad stories. Who would you use lifter Wise if ya can't get Howard's brand. Don't want to do it twice. Im fixing to retrofit my 400 small block Chevy. Im detuning it to where I can drive it and enjoy it.
Lunati are also good, I believe both made by Morel
I have heard that Isky is good.
Are these gaterman lifters? I'm looking to order gaterman lifters I hope those arnt but they look identical.....
Alot of the cheap lifters are all the same unfortunately
@cuttersperformance so is the ones I mentioned a cheap one or a good one I here they are good and alot of big brands actually use them is this true?
Your best bet would be to message them and ask where they are made. I have not experienced with gaterman, but I've seen a few sets of the Chinese retrofits, and they seem to all be basically the same. You can tell right away by how loose the link bars are