We are BAM dealers in Australia. We sell TONS of BB4 bronze bushed lifters and have no issues or failures. We encourage all our customers to go to a bushed lifters. We also are set up to service BAM lifters in-house. The BB1 is the ultimate for durability but in most cases a BB4 is plenty good enough. Nice video BTW
Eric, good info, Thanks! The morel solid is basically the exact same longer hydraulic lifter body with a solid ‘slug’ to make it a solid. They are also at least an ounce or more heavier per pair than the Bams. So the issue with the morels is if you run an offset rocker the ‘trigonometry’ of the shorter pushrod ( vs the Bams) makes the angle more extreme putting more side load on the rocker and not linear oscillation in the pushrod. So for high RPM stability the lighter mass and straighter pushrod are both clear advantages. Please comment I’d really like to hear your take on it.
In my experience if a lifter has an off set , the lifter will try to rotate on top lift. Then wenn going down again the cam lobe will line up the lifter again , as the roller MUST lie flat on the cam lobe. This causes a vibration/ extra stress on the roller bearing . One team , Dart Big Chief heads , off set Comp lifters, had to replace lifter if valve lash changed more then 0.07mm which is about 0.003" . Then the needles were worn out that much , or the roller stressed so often either one would break. Off course the 400lbs seat pressure wasnt Neither helpfull....It only happened at the intake side which needed the off set. Not on the more stressed exhaust side..those were centered. Now they are running bronze bushed comps , centered ( ground away more at intake so pushrod fitted in there) ...no problem ever since. Unless for example debris got past oil filter in case off engine bearing etc.
Would it be the case that the extra oiling hole would be good for an engine that see's more street use where rpm's are lower and you get less crank oil spray ? I'm running morel hyd rollers and I'm not at all happy with them. work fine but very noisy.
I followed a recommendation to install a rev-kit with my solid rollers; and they include spring spools that go into the pockets of the lifters. I don't see how they would work too well with off-set lifters. Perhaps running without them could have contributed to the roller bearings out-lasting the bushing equipped versions. I don't know; but one thing for sure; rev-kits add a lot of heat. I had to hole-drill the bumper behind the front tag mount behind the grill on my 87" Camaro to increase flow though the oil cooler just to compensate.
I just bought fro ultra series MP4838 with the offset. Wondering if you knew why some of the offsets had a hole from the front to the back and some don't not sure if I got a bad batch and I have to turn the tie bar upside down on four to get the offset right. Any idea?
They should chamfer a cone shape into the oil ports ends that are over the roller, so the oil sprays over the roller and sides of the bearings instead of just squirting onto the roller.
Hey, can those .904s be used in a BB or SB Mopar? The diameter is right, I dunno about the length. If ya ask the parts guy for Mopar lifters, the price goes up.
I have Crower Enduramax bronze bushed lifters in my current 461. I had planned to run either those or the Isky Red Zone EZ roll max lifters in the 582 that we are building. However, no one seems to have any of those lifters in stock. I've heard great things about BAM steel DLC lifters as well, so I ended up ordering a set of those instead. Price is about the same or extremely close to that of the Isky and Crower lifters. I don't need the offset, so I just ordered them centered, pn# B-2005-16-BB1
@Eric Weingartner Are you seeing failures for more bushed lifters over needle bearing style in general or are you referring to the particular type in the video? I will be running Isky EZ roll max .904 bushed lifter in my 430W and curious on experience with those? Thanks for the content!
@@WeingartnerRacing Can you say the same for ISKY or Crower? I have had good results with ISKY.....They make my car far faster by emptying my wallet....Lot lighter load but, also peace of mind....
Eric, excellent video! Lots of good info ! Okay , here’s my question- Have you done or are you going to do a video strictly on offsetting valve guides in cylinder heads ? More specifically, radical offsets and solutions for aluminum and cast iron ? Patiently awaiting your reply. Thanks !
Thanks for the info. On another topic, can you tell us what to do with valve guides sticking out of their hole into the chamber. How do you make them flush, or is that not a concern. No reply necessary. Maybe you could mention it in a future vlog.
Vary good info side load on lifter and lob of cam will eventually will lead to failure maintenance and inspection is a must thumbs up I watch when I can I run my own machine shop keep up the good work
Morel sells to quite a few cam companies I believe. I am waiting on a new dart 406ci race motor. I will be using a bullet cam they also use Morel lifters. Bullet cams are design and made by one of the guys that broke off from lunati. Just in my opinion I will NEVER use competition cams EVER. I have had too many roller lifter failures with their product. Also have several friends that have their weekends hot rods with flat tappet cams had Lobbs wipe out on them. Also flat top it lifter failure with their product. Talk to any good engine builder there are plenty of Cam companies that can supply with a cam or custom grind you one, whenever a core becomes available these days. Competition cams you're just purchasing a name not quality anymore. Buy American better quality control especially on lifters.
You don't want your pushrods runn8ng on an angle, that's why they're offset so they are not running on an angle. Lifter offset should match the valve off set to run strait as possible on non conventional valve spacing...
Great Videos. Do you like the Black Mambas or the BAM. I dont think the Black Mambas have the oil hole in the bottom like the Morel you are showing. Thanks
Sounds like you like the Morel lifter more if you did pros/cons table, but you don't like the oil hole to the cam. Just plug the hole and be done with it. From the looks of the 2 lifters, I also like the top tab construction of the Morel a little better from you camera footage. It looks beefier. The BAM almost looks like sheet metal.
The edm hole in my Morel lifters for my BBC does not oil the cam. That hole is the pressure supply hole for the roller axle. The axle blocks that hole on the bottom side and no oil comes out of it. I have ran a welding tip cleaner through that hole and it does not go through.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thats why I used my bbc lifter as an example. Mine does not. Sorry if I’m wrong about yours sbcs. Love your videos and your pragmatism. I am thinking about sending your a pair of AFR 325s. They are pre-CNC chambers.
@@WeingartnerRacing I understand. Mine don’t. The hole doesn’t is blocked but they are from 2014 and rebuilt once. I’ve got a new set of 904s that I’ll have to check out. The Morels I run are true axle oilers and oil just like the mambas.
The ones I have ran are the ultra pro morels. Everyone I have seen spray out the bottom were the holes is on everyone. They go around the axle and out. It would be nearly impossible for the axle to seal the hole off. It will and does leak past. Doesn’t mean there bad just an extra oil leak and windage creator.
@@ericbrandt829 they r the needle I twist my engine 7500 Everytime I drive it on the street and yes it is a street car going good for a year so far hope I don't have problems.my last set was the lunati cheap ones I used them for 5 years only adjusted my valve lash 1 time in the 5 years took them out still look and feel perfect sold them to my dad and he still running them .maybe I just haven't got a lemon yet
I hope those ones won't wipe out on runin cycle like so many people have had happen to of late. I don't know what is happening with aftermarket replacement parts.. I pray it is just a hiccup due to parts availability / workplace shutdowns during this covid cycle. But we are in a big CRISIS if this is going to be an ongoing thing when even the big BIG brands are having problems, not mentuioning any names .. (starts with C end with P, 4 letters)
In my experience if a lifter has an off set , the lifter will try to rotate on top lift. Then wenn going down again the cam lobe will line up the lifter again , as the roller MUST lie flat on the cam lobe. This causes a vibration/ extra stress on the roller bearing . One team , Dart Big Chief heads , off set Comp lifters, had to replace lifter if valve lash changed more then 0.07mm which is about 0.003" . Then the needles were worn out that much , or the roller stressed so often either one would break. Off course the 400lbs seat pressure wasnt Neither helpfull....It only happened at the intake side which needed the off set. Not on the more stressed exhaust side..those were centered. Now they are running bronze bushed comps , centered ( ground away more at intake so pushrod fitted in there) ...no problem ever since. Unless for example debris got past oil filter in case off engine bearing etc.
After buying a installing a set of Morel hyd roller lifters I will never buy Morel again. So NOISY. I would never recommend them to anyone. If I could remove them without removing my heads I'd throw them in the garbage and replace them.
Авто/Мото
We are BAM dealers in Australia. We sell TONS of BB4 bronze bushed lifters and have no issues or failures. We encourage all our customers to go to a bushed lifters. We also are set up to service BAM lifters in-house. The BB1 is the ultimate for durability but in most cases a BB4 is plenty good enough. Nice video BTW
Racemax, am I right in saying the wheel has been slightly narrowed to increase the body strength?
This is another example of why I'm a big fan of your videos. Excellent explanations, and clear reasoning for preferences and why. Well done as usual !
Nice comparison Eric.
I appreciate you breaking this down.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you for your knowledge 💪🏽
Im using scorpion solid rollers, were 1000$ 6 yrs ago, supposed to have axel oiling for idling long periods, lasted 6,000 miles this yr
Eric, good info, Thanks!
The morel solid is basically the exact same longer hydraulic lifter body with a solid ‘slug’ to make it a solid. They are also at least an ounce or more heavier per pair than the Bams. So the issue with the morels is if you run an offset rocker the ‘trigonometry’ of the shorter pushrod ( vs the Bams) makes the angle more extreme putting more side load on the rocker and not linear oscillation in the pushrod. So for high RPM stability the lighter mass and straighter pushrod are both clear advantages.
Please comment I’d really like to hear your take on it.
In my experience if a lifter has an off set , the lifter will try to rotate on top lift. Then wenn going down again the cam lobe will line up the lifter again , as the roller MUST lie flat on the cam lobe. This causes a vibration/ extra stress on the roller bearing . One team , Dart Big Chief heads , off set Comp lifters, had to replace lifter if valve lash changed more then 0.07mm which is about 0.003" . Then the needles were worn out that much , or the roller stressed so often either one would break. Off course the 400lbs seat pressure wasnt Neither helpfull....It only happened at the intake side which needed the off set. Not on the more stressed exhaust side..those were centered.
Now they are running bronze bushed comps , centered ( ground away more at intake so pushrod fitted in there) ...no problem ever since. Unless for example debris got past oil filter in case off engine bearing etc.
Would it be the case that the extra oiling hole would be good for an engine that see's more street use where rpm's are lower and you get less crank oil spray ?
I'm running morel hyd rollers and I'm not at all happy with them. work fine but very noisy.
I followed a recommendation to install a rev-kit with my solid rollers; and they include spring spools that go into the pockets of the lifters. I don't see how they would work too well with off-set lifters. Perhaps running without them could have contributed to the roller bearings out-lasting the bushing equipped versions. I don't know; but one thing for sure; rev-kits add a lot of heat. I had to hole-drill the bumper behind the front tag mount behind the grill on my 87" Camaro to increase flow though the oil cooler just to compensate.
I run Bamm on my small mopar. I absolutely love them.
What's good for a Solid Roller Street Application?
I would think that at low rpm is where the oil hole at the bottom of the morel would be needed most. How much splash do you get at 700 rpm?
Do you have any info or opinions on Johnson lifters?
What about hydraulic roller lifters from bam, morel or Johnson’s ?
I just bought fro ultra series MP4838 with the offset. Wondering if you knew why some of the offsets had a hole from the front to the back and some don't not sure if I got a bad batch and I have to turn the tie bar upside down on four to get the offset right. Any idea?
They should chamfer a cone shape into the oil ports ends that are over the roller, so the oil sprays over the roller and sides of the bearings instead of just squirting onto the roller.
Good info- thank you for the video!
Not going into the hydraulics? Different video perhaps or the classic discretion is the better part of valor?
Hey, can those .904s be used in a BB or SB Mopar? The diameter is right, I dunno about the length. If ya ask the parts guy for Mopar lifters, the price goes up.
I have Crower Enduramax bronze bushed lifters in my current 461. I had planned to run either those or the Isky Red Zone EZ roll max lifters in the 582 that we are building. However, no one seems to have any of those lifters in stock. I've heard great things about BAM steel DLC lifters as well, so I ended up ordering a set of those instead. Price is about the same or extremely close to that of the Isky and Crower lifters. I don't need the offset, so I just ordered them centered, pn# B-2005-16-BB1
I sell quite a few bam lifters. I also use them.
@@WeingartnerRacing searching through the internet. They seem to have nothing but good reviews and happy customers.
Do you have any experience using the Johnson USA lifters? What are your thoughts on them if so.
Johnson , not Topline Johnson . Are very high quality lifters . Topline are junk.
What motor are you having built Eric ?
Could you do any work on Frankenstein 10 degree heads to put on a 6,800 RPM 502 LSX build??
I could look at them but they are no dummies over there and it should work great as is.
@Eric Weingartner Are you seeing failures for more bushed lifters over needle bearing style in general or are you referring to the particular type in the video? I will be running Isky EZ roll max .904 bushed lifter in my 430W and curious on experience with those? Thanks for the content!
Eric was referring to failure of the bronze bushed lifters not the steel DLC lifters shown in this video
The bronze ones have failed more mostly from morel.
@@WeingartnerRacing thanks
@@WeingartnerRacing Can you say the same for ISKY or Crower? I have had good results with ISKY.....They make my car far faster by emptying my wallet....Lot lighter load but, also peace of mind....
Eric, excellent video! Lots of good info ! Okay , here’s my question- Have you done or are you going to do a video strictly on offsetting valve guides in cylinder heads ? More specifically, radical offsets and solutions for aluminum and cast iron ? Patiently awaiting your reply. Thanks !
What about johnson? ,the #1 if not #2 lifter
What's the weight difference ?
I have morels in my sbc for 6years they seem noisier than others but no issues
Thanks for the info. On another topic, can you tell us what to do with valve guides sticking out of their hole into the chamber. How do you make them flush, or is that not a concern. No reply necessary. Maybe you could mention it in a future vlog.
Vary good info side load on lifter and lob of cam will eventually will lead to failure maintenance and inspection is a must thumbs up I watch when I can I run my own machine shop keep up the good work
I’ve heard Morel sells Howard’s their lifters. Have you ever taken apart Howard’s to see if they match up?
Morel sells to quite a few cam companies I believe. I am waiting on a new dart 406ci race motor. I will be using a bullet cam they also use Morel lifters. Bullet cams are design and made by one of the guys that broke off from lunati. Just in my opinion I will NEVER use competition cams EVER. I have had too many roller lifter failures with their product. Also have several friends that have their weekends hot rods with flat tappet cams had Lobbs wipe out on them. Also flat top it lifter failure with their product. Talk to any good engine builder there are plenty of Cam companies that can supply with a cam or custom grind you one, whenever a core becomes available these days. Competition cams you're just purchasing a name not quality anymore. Buy American better quality control especially on lifters.
You don't want your pushrods runn8ng on an angle, that's why they're offset so they are not running on an angle. Lifter offset should match the valve off set to run strait as possible on non conventional valve spacing...
Would you consider making a video on how to correctly measure for what length of valves you need?
Great Videos. Do you like the Black Mambas or the BAM. I dont think the Black Mambas have the oil hole in the bottom like the Morel you are showing. Thanks
Well on a hemi the cranks farther from the cam.
Thanks for the video
Sounds like you like the Morel lifter more if you did pros/cons table, but you don't like the oil hole to the cam. Just plug the hole and be done with it. From the looks of the 2 lifters, I also like the top tab construction of the Morel a little better from you camera footage. It looks beefier. The BAM almost looks like sheet metal.
Isky Red Zone bushed lifters for the win.
Yes!! There is a guy on Chevelle website who has 24000 miles on his street/strip car with Isky Redzones! Glad I have them too.
Hmm , question if this guy knows what he is talking about, the hole he describes “does not” leak oil , when the axle is fitted it seals the hole,
This is addressed in another video.
The edm hole in my Morel lifters for my BBC does not oil the cam. That hole is the pressure supply hole for the roller axle. The axle blocks that hole on the bottom side and no oil comes out of it. I have ran a welding tip cleaner through that hole and it does not go through.
It does you can see it when you prime the engine.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thats why I used my bbc lifter as an example. Mine does not. Sorry if I’m wrong about yours sbcs. Love your videos and your pragmatism. I am thinking about sending your a pair of AFR 325s. They are pre-CNC chambers.
I have them in my Bbc also. They spray the cam. It’s easy to see with dart block with the notches to view the lifters.
@@WeingartnerRacing I understand. Mine don’t. The hole doesn’t is blocked but they are from 2014 and rebuilt once. I’ve got a new set of 904s that I’ll have to check out. The Morels I run are true axle oilers and oil just like the mambas.
The ones I have ran are the ultra pro morels. Everyone I have seen spray out the bottom were the holes is on everyone. They go around the axle and out. It would be nearly impossible for the axle to seal the hole off. It will and does leak past. Doesn’t mean there bad just an extra oil leak and windage creator.
I have the solid roller hippo crower lifters
Bushed or needle bearing? Bushed > Needles waiting to grenade!
@@ericbrandt829 they r the needle I twist my engine 7500 Everytime I drive it on the street and yes it is a street car going good for a year so far hope I don't have problems.my last set was the lunati cheap ones I used them for 5 years only adjusted my valve lash 1 time in the 5 years took them out still look and feel perfect sold them to my dad and he still running them .maybe I just haven't got a lemon yet
The only solid roller I could get to live on the street is the CROWER HIPPO - (Hi Performance Pin Oiled)
Good info bud
I hope those ones won't wipe out on runin cycle like so many people have had happen to of late. I don't know what is happening with aftermarket replacement parts.. I pray it is just a hiccup due to parts availability / workplace shutdowns during this covid cycle. But we are in a big CRISIS if this is going to be an ongoing thing when even the big BIG brands are having problems, not mentuioning any names .. (starts with C end with P, 4 letters)
It’s nothing new with comp cams lifters they have been junk for many years actually more like decades.
In my experience if a lifter has an off set , the lifter will try to rotate on top lift. Then wenn going down again the cam lobe will line up the lifter again , as the roller MUST lie flat on the cam lobe. This causes a vibration/ extra stress on the roller bearing . One team , Dart Big Chief heads , off set Comp lifters, had to replace lifter if valve lash changed more then 0.07mm which is about 0.003" . Then the needles were worn out that much , or the roller stressed so often either one would break. Off course the 400lbs seat pressure wasnt Neither helpfull....It only happened at the intake side which needed the off set. Not on the more stressed exhaust side..those were centered.
Now they are running bronze bushed comps , centered ( ground away more at intake so pushrod fitted in there) ...no problem ever since. Unless for example debris got past oil filter in case off engine bearing etc.
THX, GIOD INFO.
BAM had better tie bars as well. 💪🏽
Cam tray anyone
Morel has no service or rebuild options .....ISKY is the way to go !
I have had Morel reco their lifters from my race engine , fast and economical.I am in Australia and it was worth doing
🔔😎👍👍👍👍😁😁
👍🏽👍🏽
You make a lot of absolute statements about oil pressure and aeration without any actual evidence or side by side analysis
Just use a small tripod and stop using one handed camera !!!!!
After buying a installing a set of Morel hyd roller lifters I will never buy Morel again. So NOISY. I would never recommend them to anyone. If I could remove them without removing my heads I'd throw them in the garbage and replace them.