@@vrm86gt weigh your hydro roller lifter and pushrod, weigh your solid roller lifter and pushrod. If you are lighter you can leave the spring pressure the same(assuming your hydro setup had good valve train control). You can also run a little more spring pressure if you want some more rpm ability past peak hp. Keep in mind you need to be right on top of your maintenance, more so than running a 'street lobe' solid roller, as you will be running tighter lash on a lobe with a different lash ramp profile, get it wrong and you will beat up your valve train or not seat valves properly and burn/damage the seats. A dedicated solid cam lobe has a lash ramp designed to control a solid lifter, the ramp has some margin for tighter and looser lash. A hydro lobe can actually be far more agressive at this point in the lift cycle so if you dont have it right you will be wishing you stayed hydro or simply bought the a solid cam with an appropriate lobe profile for your use!
I remember when i was like 20 and thought I knew everything about engines when i had a 540hp 8valve 4cyl. It must have broke 20 roller rocker tips so i said they were not strong enough so i went to old school sintered slider rockers and then i started snapping tips of the lifters🤣. Dumb me figured that was the next weakest link. Little did I know the springs were beat and the thing was floating the valves like crazy and the rockers were getting slapped. Now i enjoy listening to people that have more experience and are smarter than me so I can absorb some knowledge. 👍
You couldn't hear the valves floating at high RPMs? 🤔 Usually it's pretty easy to hear, and the engine feels like it hits a brick wall. The power just feels like it falls of a cliff.
@@davelowets i was 20 and had no idea what i was doing. Didn’t really have a blueprint to go by because it wasn’t a super popular combo and didn’t have anyone to really guide me. I just kinda figured it out myself the more i worked on it.
I can listen to you and all of your knowledge endlessly for hours on end. I have been a machinist and builder for a long time and all of your information is just more that I want to accomplish thank you for the great tech information and videos Steve
All the knowledge! I built a 383 about 6 or 7 years ago, for my extended cab. I ran a mild lunati voodoo solid roller, around 40,000 miles I had a lot of valve tip wear and added lash caps, when I had almost 60,000 miles on it the airfilter stud fell in the motor, I put new valves, springs, and lifters in it about 2 years ago. It still runs strong
I bought a boat (very cheaply) with a Chevy big block in it that knocked like a jack hammer. When I pulled the motor apart, I found the air filter stud in one of the cylinders. The round stud was beat into a square profile, the piston was wasted, and the crankshaft was actually bent. The connecting rod was surprisingly good yet. 1 used factory piston, had the crank straightened, honed the block, new rings and bearings, and it ran for a champ for many years until I sold it.
Excellent content. I alway liked the hydraulic roller cam profiles better than the solid roller for the street. Best of both worlds running a solid roller lifter on a hydraulic roller cam.
Steve, unless an engine builder is at you level of understanding about how engine's work it appears to me that most everyone can learn from listening to Steve Tech. As a novice in this field I am truly appreciative with the amount of knowledge that you provide and are willing to provide. Thank you 👍
Try needleless roller lifters with EDM pin oiling.... I've been using them for a while and so far, so good. No issues yet. I have more time on them than I did with the needle rollers.
Great info! I first ran a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam in 2007 for the same reasons… I tried various lash settings and found the car went quicker and faster with 15 thou cold lash… I could set them to zero cold and as long as it would fire up and had temp on all cylinders it was fairly quiet when warmed up and the lash increased ( LS7 alloy block) which was great for road use with full exhaust. The other thing I really don’t like about keyway bush/lifters (and Steve touched on the difficulty in installing them and retrieving a lifter if one should fail) is the alignment has to be perfect on every single one else catastrophic damage will result… I only use the factory tray or a ti bar deal on LS. Thanks for the video Steve!. Keep them coming 💪
I have run Doug Herbert custom letters for the last 15 years they are rebuildable but I have never any problem with them I have read used in several Motors!!
i like how Steve explains things.i watched some David Vizard videos and he explains things like a scientist or professor,hard for the average joe to understand.but i can relate to how Steve explains everything.
Thanks for your page Steve and all the information you provide that you surely don’t have to do. I’ve been building engines for 40 years and I’ve learned so much more watching your content. I’ve been running solid flat tappet camshafts on my performance daily’s due to what I always figured was a “longevity” issue. What are your thoughts on solid roller camshafts for heavy street use? My concern is maintenance, outside of the routine lash checks. How often should one pull the intake to actually check lifters? I do understand that keeping up with the lash checks does shed light on possible problems but the few street builds I’ve done with solid rollers were normally maintained throughout the summer months for cruising season here in Montana, then just pull the intake every winter just to check the lifters themselves…
I like the fact you are wearing an HPP hoodie they make some beautiful cars especially their new one for NPK Chris Bains car the C7 with your 481X in it with a huge Harts single turbo hanging out in the front grille of the car
To be clear: the reason the lifter wants to rotate when it is down on the 'base circle' is because the lifter is not ever perfectly square with the cam, and there is very little pressure on the lifter at that point (none on a solid lifter) to keep it in contact with the lobe and properly aligned. The only pressure on the hydraulic lifter when the valve is closed is supplied by that little spring inside the hydraulic lifter itself.
Has anyone ever offset the roller a tiny bit to provide 'caster trail' to assist in keeping the lifter straight in the bore? Or does it side load the lifter bore too much and cause wear?
Nice work. A video on pros and cons of the hydraulic rollers cam with solid lifters would be cool. I wanted to do it at one stage and was told it wouldn't work too great. Couldn't work out why it wouldn't work. No that you said it does, I want to know more.
We have a tool for keying the block and running a .904 size lifter in a small block Chevy Dart Block and we don't always use bushings but if we use a bushing it has the holes drilled all the way through like you suggested
So with bigger roller size your going for a slower sfm or rpm of the roller for more life out of it? Hopefully youll do a video on valve springs one day. Id be curious to hear proper setup of a valve spring.
Was wondering what your opinion is about Melling hydraulic roller lifters and cams for bbc have you used them and do you like them? Thanks Steve btw great vids and thanks again for the knowledge.
Is the bushing required when you increase the wheel size? Or is it possible to just increase the bore size of the block to match the larger lifter? Is there another purpose for the use of the 2nd lifter bushing you showed us without the key way? Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
There’s a few reasons for the use of the lifter bush If you are needing to correct lifter to block clearance, repair a gauled lifter bore, or re-centre lifter bores square to the lobe then these bushes make those processes possible But one of the biggest advantages is for high rpm use and particularly if using the softer alloy block or conversely the extremely hard material found in something like a Dart pro block, the bronze bush material is much happier working with the tool steel lifter material without the added expense of a dlc lifter set.
Comp Cams sell a lifter bore cutter used to broach in engine block for additional lifter lubrication . What are thoughts on this and oil impregnated bronze lifter bore sleeves ? Thanks a mint Steve !!!
Understand issue with racing, heavy valve springs causing lifter roller and roller rocker bearings. On street apps nothing wild just your avg everyday engine. Roller lifters, roller rockers all help with fuel efficiency right. Yes I've had roller lifters fail with solid roller cam car was street driven and cam was very aggressive. This was 351C with solid roller, never had issue yet with smallblock ford with inline head.
Can you use a solid roller lifter as a daily or is it like the old days when you had to keep adjusting them every so many miles. Is it a set it and forget it?
That's why when I broke a rocker, the tie bar lifter turned enough (because of no spring pressure) and tore up the cam. I never understood why that happened until now.
*** what lifters do you recommend?? planning on getting a comp cam solid roller camshaft 6-7 thousands lift. Wont be buying the bearing type, i hear a lot of recommended lifter companies, who do you recommend? what lifters are known to hold up and not break?? comp, crane.. etc..
Then why do the lifter trays fail all the time. We see at least one engine a week come in where the lifter trays have failed and allowed the lifter to turn in the bore and then wipes out the cam?
Yes. After only 20k miles on my ls7 the lifters fall right out and there’s so much wiggle play I just put in new buckets with my old lifters on just a head swap. Was gonna use old buckets until I saw that . Rollers are nice but the old flat tapper solids are less worrisome
@@nurburgringdreaming2221 we see this all the time. We now use tie bar lifters to solve the problem. GMs lifter tray design sucks. Simple little dog bone worked for years and years on a small Chevy How many warranty motors they have had to replace you think they would have changed the factory design already
Can confirm seeing this pretty frequently on stock applications, and at relatively low mileage. Agree with Steve in theory, yet... I think the plastic trays just arent a great design personally.
They are used almost exclusively in pro stock where the harmonic and inertia dynamics of a ti bar become a limitation. Especially in engines operating at 10000+ rpm.
Take a look at factory G.M. 3.1/3.4 liter hydraulic lifters... If you crank the motor over without the pushrods in it long enough to build any oil pressure, and then put the pushrods back in it, it'll have ZERO compression for up to 30 minutes or even longer. The valves are hung slightly open because the lifter pumped up too far when there wasn't any pressure on the pushrod cup from the valve springs, and it takes a little while for the lifters to bleed back down and allow the valves to close. Years ago, when I did my first I take gasket replacement on one of these engines, I tired to start it and it sounded like it had no compression when it cranked. I was like WTF, did I get the pushrods mixed up? (The intake and exhaust pushrods are different lengths) Did I somehow put the rockers on wrong? As I was looking for the issue for 30 minutes or so, the compression started coming back on individual cylinders, one by one, as I cranked it. It was then that I realized that the lifters had pumped up too far when I cranked it before without the pushrods in it. I've seen this happen with lifters in LS engines before also. So, if you have the issue of no compression after reassembling one of these motors, and you've done everything correctly, just let it sit for a little while and it'll come back.
I did that just a couple weeks ago. I've put head gaskets in many of these and this one for some reason would not get compression back. Went home, next day started fine.
I love the idea of running solid lifters on a hyd roller cam. 😁😁👍
@@vrm86gt yeah good question!
@@vrm86gt weigh your hydro roller lifter and pushrod, weigh your solid roller lifter and pushrod. If you are lighter you can leave the spring pressure the same(assuming your hydro setup had good valve train control). You can also run a little more spring pressure if you want some more rpm ability past peak hp.
Keep in mind you need to be right on top of your maintenance, more so than running a 'street lobe' solid roller, as you will be running tighter lash on a lobe with a different lash ramp profile, get it wrong and you will beat up your valve train or not seat valves properly and burn/damage the seats. A dedicated solid cam lobe has a lash ramp designed to control a solid lifter, the ramp has some margin for tighter and looser lash. A hydro lobe can actually be far more agressive at this point in the lift cycle so if you dont have it right you will be wishing you stayed hydro or simply bought the a solid cam with an appropriate lobe profile for your use!
@@vrm86gt no probs✌
Steve’s Mechanical engineering knowledge is awesome
Always a treat to hear and watch from a legendary Engine Builder/Designer/Air-Fluid-Dynamisicist, thank you Sir Morris!
This guys content is awesome. Amongst all the chaff out there, nice to see a guy that truly knows his stuff and will share it.
I remember when i was like 20 and thought I knew everything about engines when i had a 540hp 8valve 4cyl. It must have broke 20 roller rocker tips so i said they were not strong enough so i went to old school sintered slider rockers and then i started snapping tips of the lifters🤣. Dumb me figured that was the next weakest link. Little did I know the springs were beat and the thing was floating the valves like crazy and the rockers were getting slapped. Now i enjoy listening to people that have more experience and are smarter than me so I can absorb some knowledge. 👍
You couldn't hear the valves floating at high RPMs? 🤔 Usually it's pretty easy to hear, and the engine feels like it hits a brick wall. The power just feels like it falls of a cliff.
@@davelowets i was 20 and had no idea what i was doing. Didn’t really have a blueprint to go by because it wasn’t a super popular combo and didn’t have anyone to really guide me. I just kinda figured it out myself the more i worked on it.
@@starionslider2116 You must have known enough to get 500+ out of a 4 cylinder
@@davelowets yea a 8 valve 4 cyl lol. It didn’t happen overnight. Lots of trial and error. I found allllll the weak links hahaha
I can listen to you and all of your knowledge endlessly for hours on end. I have been a machinist and builder for a long time and all of your information is just more that I want to accomplish thank you for the great tech information and videos Steve
Great stuff... Always love the knowledge, Steve...👍
All the knowledge! I built a 383 about 6 or 7 years ago, for my extended cab. I ran a mild lunati voodoo solid roller, around 40,000 miles I had a lot of valve tip wear and added lash caps, when I had almost 60,000 miles on it the airfilter stud fell in the motor, I put new valves, springs, and lifters in it about 2 years ago. It still runs strong
I bought a boat (very cheaply) with a Chevy big block in it that knocked like a jack hammer. When I pulled the motor apart, I found the air filter stud in one of the cylinders. The round stud was beat into a square profile, the piston was wasted, and the crankshaft was actually bent. The connecting rod was surprisingly good yet. 1 used factory piston, had the crank straightened, honed the block, new rings and bearings, and it ran for a champ for many years until I sold it.
Thanks Steve for insight into this side of the motors. fascinating stuff. :-)
Excellent content. I alway liked the hydraulic roller cam profiles better than the solid roller for the street. Best of both worlds running a solid roller lifter on a hydraulic roller cam.
Steve, unless an engine builder is at you level of understanding about how engine's work it appears to me that most everyone can learn from listening to Steve Tech. As a novice in this field I am truly appreciative with the amount of knowledge that you provide and are willing to provide. Thank you 👍
Steve, this is the best engine info videos on utube. no bull no hyp. just real good info. thank you. JB from nz
Binging your videos. Man you are insane. The amount of knowledge, info and specs that you talk about just off memory is amazing.
Awesome tech videos Steve! Educating people on how parts work really helps making a decision on getting the right stuff for the application
Thanks for the class Steve.
Good stuff. Never put much thought into lifter design.
The bigger lifter wheels also spin slower so that also saves lifter pin bushings
And they have larger contact areas, spreading the load and reducing stresses and wear
Try needleless roller lifters with EDM pin oiling.... I've been using them for a while and so far, so good. No issues yet. I have more time on them than I did with the needle rollers.
Great information as usual.
Thank you Mr Morris ! Very informative and interesting.
Greateat Stuff Steve learned a lot of little things i didn't know
Your the Thesaurus of the engine building world M8. I really enjoy learning the finer details of engine building. Thanks Stevo
I love your videos, they are so informative. I love the clatter of a solid lifter camshaft!!! It's music to my ears!!!
Heaps of awesome information, thanks, all the best to you and your loved ones
Another excellent video.
Thanks for taking the time to make them.
Thanks for taking the time !! As always, greatly appreciated Sir !!
Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge Steve. I always learn something new
Fantastic information Steve. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for making Merica smarter they need you!
Never blinked my eyes for whole video Thank you for sharing ur time Mr Morris
Great info!
I first ran a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam in 2007 for the same reasons… I tried various lash settings and found the car went quicker and faster with 15 thou cold lash… I could set them to zero cold and as long as it would fire up and had temp on all cylinders it was fairly quiet when warmed up and the lash increased ( LS7 alloy block) which was great for road use with full exhaust.
The other thing I really don’t like about keyway bush/lifters (and Steve touched on the difficulty in installing them and retrieving a lifter if one should fail) is the alignment has to be perfect on every single one else catastrophic damage will result… I only use the factory tray or a ti bar deal on LS.
Thanks for the video Steve!.
Keep them coming 💪
Great info!
I really appreciate the no bullshit tech. Second to no one. Yall are the best.
Excellent information.Thank you Steve .
Awesome engine builder and Video. Thanks for the information 👍👍👍
How 19 minutes can go so fast 👍
Thanks for answering my exact question, a couple of months ago.
I have run Doug Herbert custom letters for the last 15 years they are rebuildable but I have never any problem with them I have read used in several Motors!!
Like that hpp racing pull over... manny is a awesome guy at setting up race cars or street cars
It is amazing that it took so long for the aftermarket , to build 1939 Harley Davidson lifters.
Love all the info. Thanks for sharing.
i like how Steve explains things.i watched some David Vizard videos and he explains things like a scientist or professor,hard for the average joe to understand.but i can relate to how Steve explains everything.
Make a book please easier said than done I'm sure. Love these videos
Really good information!
Lifter info. is very interesting. The bushing type, (for roller rockers), replacing the tiny needles, is an excellent idea.
Thanks for your page Steve and all the information you provide that you surely don’t have to do. I’ve been building engines for 40 years and I’ve learned so much more watching your content. I’ve been running solid flat tappet camshafts on my performance daily’s due to what I always figured was a “longevity” issue. What are your thoughts on solid roller camshafts for heavy street use? My concern is maintenance, outside of the routine lash checks. How often should one pull the intake to actually check lifters? I do understand that keeping up with the lash checks does shed light on possible problems but the few street builds I’ve done with solid rollers were normally maintained throughout the summer months for cruising season here in Montana, then just pull the intake every winter just to check the lifters themselves…
I always learn something new from your videos. 👍
Steve ..
Your stevetech video series is very informative , I look forward to watching ea one of them
Thanks Steve! Awesome video!
I like the fact you are wearing an HPP hoodie they make some beautiful cars especially their new one for NPK Chris Bains car the C7 with your 481X in it with a huge Harts single turbo hanging out in the front grille of the car
The Penske/Ilmor/Mercedes pushrod engine that dominated the Indy 500 had over 5000 needles in its bearings. Ouch! Nice job Steve.
I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Keep up the great work Sir.
Thanks Steve as always great video and once again you the man...toms not so bad either
love your knowledge !
hate how you say black instead of block but hey worth the watch !
keep up the good work !
as always great information amazed every time
Solid flat tappet for the win.
Interesting…
I just got your stage 2 blower cam. Got a set of Morel 4602 lifters, now I’m reconsidering a bushed hydraulic lifter.
To be clear: the reason the lifter wants to rotate when it is down on the 'base circle' is because the lifter is not ever perfectly square with the cam, and there is very little pressure on the lifter at that point (none on a solid lifter) to keep it in contact with the lobe and properly aligned. The only pressure on the hydraulic lifter when the valve is closed is supplied by that little spring inside the hydraulic lifter itself.
Has anyone ever offset the roller a tiny bit to provide 'caster trail' to assist in keeping the lifter straight in the bore? Or does it side load the lifter bore too much and cause wear?
I like that Hoodie! HPP Racing!!!
Thank you Steve!!!!1
Great content thanks for sharing, very informative
Very interesting video, be even better without 9 ads for things I will never buy.
Nice work. A video on pros and cons of the hydraulic rollers cam with solid lifters would be cool. I wanted to do it at one stage and was told it wouldn't work too great. Couldn't work out why it wouldn't work. No that you said it does, I want to know more.
Thanks again Steve
good stuff Steve...thanks
We have a tool for keying the block and running a .904 size lifter in a small block Chevy Dart Block and we don't always use bushings but if we use a bushing it has the holes drilled all the way through like you suggested
If you're changing lifters in an LS, LQ, LM style set up, change the trays also.
I can't wait for the rocker arm video!
Great video brother!
So with bigger roller size your going for a slower sfm or rpm of the roller for more life out of it? Hopefully youll do a video on valve springs one day. Id be curious to hear proper setup of a valve spring.
Great and accurate information as always
Very interesting, thank you so much!
Lifters are in a whole different light now!
Was wondering what your opinion is about Melling hydraulic roller lifters and cams for bbc have you used them and do you like them? Thanks Steve btw great vids and thanks again for the knowledge.
Is the bushing required when you increase the wheel size? Or is it possible to just increase the bore size of the block to match the larger lifter? Is there another purpose for the use of the 2nd lifter bushing you showed us without the key way?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
There’s a few reasons for the use of the lifter bush
If you are needing to correct lifter to block clearance, repair a gauled lifter bore, or re-centre lifter bores square to the lobe then these bushes make those processes possible
But one of the biggest advantages is for high rpm use and particularly if using the softer alloy block or conversely the extremely hard material found in something like a Dart pro block, the bronze bush material is much happier working with the tool steel lifter material without the added expense of a dlc lifter set.
I ran a solid roller on a hyd cam for three years around 750 lift. .010 lash hot. It’s almost zero cold
6.0 liter diesels love sending needle bearings through oil pump
Ever thought the keyway can be used to restrict float of the lifter on the cam with a longer bushing and a wide axle?
Thanks Steve !
Now can we have a chat about what is the zone of oil pressure is best for the hydraulic roller lifter ? What is your take on it steve ?
Always interesting
Thanks for the information
not a gearhead and I still watch
Comp Cams sell a lifter bore cutter used to broach in engine block for additional lifter lubrication . What are thoughts on this and oil impregnated bronze lifter bore sleeves ? Thanks a mint Steve !!!
Understand issue with racing, heavy valve springs causing lifter roller and roller rocker bearings. On street apps nothing wild just your avg everyday engine. Roller lifters, roller rockers all help with fuel efficiency right. Yes I've had roller lifters fail with solid roller cam car was street driven and cam was very aggressive. This was 351C with solid roller, never had issue yet with smallblock ford with inline head.
like your breakdown have you considered knurling the lifter
Can you use a solid roller lifter as a daily or is it like the old days when you had to keep adjusting them every so many miles. Is it a set it and forget it?
That's why when I broke a rocker, the tie bar lifter turned enough (because of no spring pressure) and tore up the cam. I never understood why that happened until now.
*** what lifters do you recommend?? planning on getting a comp cam solid roller camshaft 6-7 thousands lift. Wont be buying the bearing type, i hear a lot of recommended lifter companies, who do you recommend? what lifters are known to hold up and not break?? comp, crane.. etc..
Real racers hire chassis guys for their lifter tuning.
😂❤😂❤😂❤
Ha.....
Can you do a tech video on flat tappet lifters?
But can you run a solid flat tappet lifter on a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft?
Steve, can you do a video on hybrid roller setups, Solid rollers on Hyd Roller cams?
Great info, thank you.
Then why do the lifter trays fail all the time. We see at least one engine a week come in where the lifter trays have failed and allowed the lifter to turn in the bore and then wipes out the cam?
Yes. After only 20k miles on my ls7 the lifters fall right out and there’s so much wiggle play I just put in new buckets with my old lifters on just a head swap. Was gonna use old buckets until I saw that . Rollers are nice but the old flat tapper solids are less worrisome
@@nurburgringdreaming2221 we see this all the time. We now use tie bar lifters to solve the problem.
GMs lifter tray design sucks. Simple little dog bone worked for years and years on a small Chevy
How many warranty motors they have had to replace you think they would have changed the factory design already
Can confirm seeing this pretty frequently on stock applications, and at relatively low mileage.
Agree with Steve in theory, yet...
I think the plastic trays just arent a great design personally.
Feel late to the game just now seeing some of your videos .
When should an axle oiling lifter be used? And can a short travel lifter make more valve lift and power than a standard full travel lifter?
Great info, Thanks... What oil or additive would you recommend using in a old 455 muscle car with a hyd lifter cam ,none roller.
You can also take a regular lifter and if you know how to measure it, make it a limited travel lifter with a longer than normal pushrod.
So why do some go to so much trouble for keyed lifters and bushed lifter bores?
They are used almost exclusively in pro stock where the harmonic and inertia dynamics of a ti bar become a limitation. Especially in engines operating at 10000+ rpm.
@@ktmr8 Thank you for educating me.
Great info
Take a look at factory G.M. 3.1/3.4 liter hydraulic lifters... If you crank the motor over without the pushrods in it long enough to build any oil pressure, and then put the pushrods back in it, it'll have ZERO compression for up to 30 minutes or even longer. The valves are hung slightly open because the lifter pumped up too far when there wasn't any pressure on the pushrod cup from the valve springs, and it takes a little while for the lifters to bleed back down and allow the valves to close.
Years ago, when I did my first I take gasket replacement on one of these engines, I tired to start it and it sounded like it had no compression when it cranked. I was like WTF, did I get the pushrods mixed up? (The intake and exhaust pushrods are different lengths) Did I somehow put the rockers on wrong? As I was looking for the issue for 30 minutes or so, the compression started coming back on individual cylinders, one by one, as I cranked it. It was then that I realized that the lifters had pumped up too far when I cranked it before without the pushrods in it.
I've seen this happen with lifters in LS engines before also. So, if you have the issue of no compression after reassembling one of these motors, and you've done everything correctly, just let it sit for a little while and it'll come back.
I did that just a couple weeks ago. I've put head gaskets in many of these and this one for some reason would not get compression back. Went home, next day started fine.
@@ottomechb It happened to every 3.1/3.4 that I did an intake gasket on, and also a few various LS engines that I had to pull the pushrods out of.