How to convert you Flat-tappet cam to roller cam installation
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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2022
- How to step by step convert your flat tappet cam to a roller cam using comp conversion kit, in this video I show the main part to doing the swap which includes drilling, tapping the block, installing lifters, wishbones, and hold down tray,I do not show swapping out the cam itself because that requires no modifications other than pulling one out and installing the roller cam, NOTE, you can not run roller lifters on a non roller cam.
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Nice block! Also cool framing hammer. No need to grind out all that casting slag or clean anything
That is a really cool video and I had no idea such a kit existed. but today you can get retrofit roller lifters for 99 dollars on ebay. I don't know when they started making a kit like this, but 20 years ago this would of been awesome. It still is awesome because you never know with cheap ebay stuff. I would kind of question whether or not the 99 dollar retrofit lifters were good. Anyway thanks for sharing I just learnt something.
👍🏾😎 I've been wanting to do this, thanks for the informative post.
I got my engine builder to install one or those, But he ground around the top of the lifter bosses so the dogbones would sit flat.
Such an informative video, super helpful!
Hey thanks! Had it was helpful
@@1194video definitely was! I’ll be rebuilding a 302 soon and was hoping this conversion was possible. Now not only do I know it’s possible, I know I can do it
@@WayneKerrr it’s a regular cam too not one of those small circle type, if you see my latest video of red car you can hear it run with the roller swap
excellent video
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
Damn ! I went to a Howards billet solid roller about three years ago and went with the link-bars cause i didn't know about any such kit; and though I went with premium bushing solid rollers, I'd actually had a link-bar come loose on the Hydraulic roller I had prior which was why I had to change the cam out in the first place. I acutally think, (as much as they had to be compressed) that the recommended high-rev springs I installed help keep mine oriented, (though they jack the overall coolent temp a good 20 degrees) yet I think going with the kit instead of the link-bars is a better set-up just for the lesser reciprocating weight if nothing else. After having one come loose on me, I'm no longer a fan of link bars.
Those linked lifters scare me too much too, imagine if the link came off and fell into the crankcase
What's the part # on that comp kit I can find them for everything but a big block chevy thank you
Awesome video
Hope it helped out
Nice video. Thanks.
Very well explained video. Can I use standard ford performance m6500-r302 lifters with a retrofit cam?
Mine is not retrofit fit the swap or the lifters, I just have the retainer and screws to make the conversion
donde conseguir ese kit
Like the video. Thanks. Girlfriend has 76 f100 that we wanted to convert to roller cam. My question is can we the original heads with the roller cam? We're trying to keep original as possible. Thanks
I used my stock heads and rockers, just had to change to shorter pushrod
I read somewhere that this setup is fine as long as the cam is under .500 lift. The Trick Flow TFS-1 is a little over that on the exhaust side but seems to work fine. Any more lift than that, and the oil groove in the lifter will be exposed causing a loss in oil pressure.
I’m running 60 cruising
@@1194video What does that mean?
Random Guy was talking about lift.
@@bartsarton2212 it’s no different than any engine. Lift if how tall the lobes are on the cam that make the valves open which are operated by the lifters forcing the pushrods up operating the rockers/vale’s lift. The lifters have a groove in the middle that oil flows to from the bore in the holes in the block. He is saying that if you have a very large cam that the lifter will go too far out of the bore hole and can’t oil properly….. but unless your engine is not stock it can only handle a certain amount of lift anyways or else the piston and valve will contact causing catastrophic failure
@@1194video Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant what does your comment, "I’m running 60 cruising" mean in relation to Random Guy's comment about valve lift?
@@bartsarton2212 60 lbs of oil pressure when at idle cruise
I am not 100% sure but I believe you have to use a retro-fit cam made for this conversion. They have a smaller base circle as not to expose the oil hole or push the lifters out of the lifter bore.
You are correct, this is a small base circle cam
Any recommendations on installing the button to keep the cam in place behind the timing cover???
Yes, you have to open the oil hole up to the front retainer and just two 5/16 bolts I believe
Would like to use this in my 70 ford 302. What lifters and cam is best for this conversion? I now the oiling whole for non roller blocks are lower . Which one did you use?
It’s a standard 351 cam track max trick flow but the lifter kit is for the swap from jeggs
Thank you, "that was easy", to understand.
That’s why I’m here
Very good info!! I did not know about this. Thanks for sharing with us. Is it a good idea to locktite the 1/4-20's? Red or Blue? Thanks again. Cheers from Motown/Dearborn.
Long as you put something to keep them from backing out you should be good
Personally I'd use blue locktite on 1/4" and smaller. If you do use red, only a tiny amount. I've sheared a 3/8" bolt because some yahoo used to much red.
I like your work, very useful, and I do have a question, will you recommend retrofit camshaft in a stock 302 and do I have to change lifters as well? I appreciate your input
I think retrofit is for pre 87 blocks and it’s a good idea always to do a lifter swap any time you change the cam
Is the cam profile the same on roller and non roller cams? Will switching from a non roller to a roller engine trigger a check engine light?
Can’t answer that, mine is a 67 mustang do no light. All carb
Will I be able to use off the shelf cams? Or will I have to use small based circle cams?
Mine is not a small base circle cam, it’s a trick flow track max.
Any issues with the lifter oil band coming out of the bore? My non roller Mopar LA 360/408 has short lifter bosses and for a hydraulic roller the only roller lifter I can use are the Morel/Huges retro rollers. There in its self is a problem with the hydraulic roller being taller and the already extreme pushrod angle causes excessive wear on the lifter bore its self and the plunger inside the lifter. The morels are egging my lifter bores from the extreme side load from the poor pushrod angle and they are failing with excessive leak down while running. If I was to do it again it would be with a factory LA roller block or sleeve the lifters with a taller sleeve to accommodate/support the taller lifter better and eliminate the lifter oil band from coming exposed at high lift.
The upper lifter is taller only to accommodate the keepers that hold them in position, the lifters themselves don’t come out of the bore past the sleeve, that would be catastrophic. I could not use standard lifters or they would not line up properly with the oil valley and would t have oil pressure to oil tue rockers, the lifters I have are specifically for the conversion of flat to roller.
Great video! Any reason why this is better than using the rollers with link bars on them instead, or are they both as good as the other just different?
No reason, my brother had this kit for sale and I bought it for my non roller block, I have no problem using the linked lifters
Do you have to used a reduced base cam after conversion?
Gracias compadre aprendi algo hoy
Awesome
I have a 80 302 im doing the same thing to. trick flow cam and ford hyd rollers and hold down kit. What was the difference in pushrod length?
I had to go to the factory 95 mustang pushrods, I can’t remember length but I did measure from lifter to rocker before I ordered them
Would a lifter tray still be needed with the more expensive style of roller lifters with the bar attached ?
Those don’t require the tray since they keep each other in position from turning. The tray just holds down the keepers holing the lifter rollers straight with the cam lobes
No.
My question is I noticed the dog bones was coming up with the lifters. I watched this because I just did this and the retro lifters raise the retainers even higher that the oem roller lifters. Have you run this engine like this?
It was not the lifters that raised the dog bi es, the side of the block was not allowing it to sit flush, you can grind it out on each bore so that it doesn’t contact the side of the valley but I left it alone. You can watch it running in my video of the red 1967 mustang
@@1194video ok I see that. I’m using a factory HO cam. I need a reduced circle base I’m assuming.
@@606garage4 everyone has been saying to use a small circle but Iv not had any issues with my oil pressure and engine runs great
What is the part #?
Wont drilling those out on an assembled block get shavings down in the motor? I would like to do this, but do it with the engine in the car.
Keel towels around everything and a vacuum close while drilling, you don’t go all the way through with your bit, only far enough to tap
that lifter valley is already susceptible to cracking right down the middle of the block at power rating 500 bhp. more holes in the valley just weakens it more. i wouldn't build much more than 400 bhp on that block. dart blocks have cured this problem .
Well if you wanna spend 3k on a block be my guest.
Well he wasn't talking about making 500 hp so you should go and try to prove your point elsewhere. Us Ford guys already know that...... Smh
@@darronlemell224 hey thanks for the reply! I was just wanting roller 😂
Johnny Lightning with his 0 engine building experience giving out his free knowledge!
Never seen a 351 split yet maybe a 302
Did you use a bottoming tap or a regular tapered tap?
I used a regular tap but grinder the end so it would tap further
I found the concersion kit. Can you share the PNs of the lifters and cam you used in thus 302 conversion?
I know it was a trick flow track maxx cam but I don’t know the specs, I bought this kit from my brother who didn’t use it so don’t know the P/N
Did the engine end up working well? What lifters did you choose?? Can this be done on an SBC 350??? WHAT LIFTERS DO I USE FOR AN SBC 350???? WHAT CAM DO I USE????? Sorry lol just got questions
Yes it’s been a year since and engine is still strong, you can buy the attached roller kit for your engine which has a bridge that runs from one to another lifter and as for cam you can go any size that does not require aftermarket pistons or heads, if you decide not to go roller the cam i recomend would be comp cams no. 12-231-2. it's 206 and 214 at .050 with .432 and .453 lift. if your going for low price, summit cam k1103 would work with 214 and 224 at .050 and .442 and .465 lift. you'd notice considerably less torque and drivability with this cam than the other but it would work ok but those are for flat not roller. So if you do go roller there are kits available for those as well
Did you use a small base circle cam?
I used a trick flow track max cam
What about the cam walking forward and back? Some blocks don't have the place for the plate on the front that accepts the step nose cam.
It comes in the kit with the correct end for the 302
So i re-used the spider tray in my 383. How much pressure should be on the dog bones? Just enough to keep them down. I have this fear that the ear of the tray will somehow bend and release the dog bone making the lifter spin.
That would be catastrophic, mine torques straight to the block. Haven’t had any issues so far
@@1194videono I meant the part that lays over the dog bones. My actual tray is torqued with loctite. I’m curious what actual pressure needs to be applied to the dog bones. This is just my OCD talking
@@Se7enthsonSS That’s a good question I’ve never thought about looking that up but I’m sure it’s a lot of pressure
I got a question I got a 1992 f150 351 non roller block, comp cam kit 35-512-8. Cam, roller lifters, timing, etc. I tapped my holes, got all the lifters installed, with the sypder, and wishbones. But whenever the lifter is pumped all the way up it’s coming in contact with the wishbone pushing it up about a 8th of a inch, is that normal? Or do I need the retro lifters? I think I’m fine, I just don’t want a noise valve train cause of it.
Mine did the same thing, hasn’t caused any issues this far.
I was also told to put a few washers under the spyder when bolting down, do you think that’s needed?
@@dustin2816 I wouldn’t, that could vibrate the bolt loose, I would however add loctite to the hood down screws
So do I need to worry about the lifter, traveling, too high at high RPMs and the oil hole on the lifter, raising to high and shooting out causing me to lose oil pressure being the non roller block lifter bore isn’t the same as oem roller block?
@@dustin2816 I measured where mine oils and the lifter and mi e was perfectly aligned with the oil journal, I’m holding 3/4 of a gauge on my oil pressure and it rises at higher rpm. Mi e is the kit designed for the conversion though, measure in the lifter hole down to the cam on neutral and lift to the oiler hole and measure your lifter to make sure it travels within the oiling area. You definitely gotta have it piling correctly or you will have a boat anchor
How deep should I go when drilling?
I specify in the video how far to drill. Not sure right off but I step by step it
Only thing wrong is that a small base circle cam is needed, oil holes on lifters do not line up.
It’s not a small base circle but They do line up, I measured both the lifter trap and the oil valley with calipers and it has plenty of gap and with the engine running it squirts oil from the rockers which proves oil is going through the lifters and you the pushrods
yep i made that mistake lucky we checked oil pressure at the
end before finalizing. it wouldn’t make any pressure with those lifters as they were coming up too high out of the hole
What is the GM part number for the lifter???
Ford.
302 V8.
How did you know you were at 3/8th depth? Did you mark your bit?
I did I put a piece of tape around d the bit so I didn’t go past the tape mark
Thank you sir
How long is the screw?
Very short 3/16 maybe
Do I have to get shorter pushrods ?
I can’t tell you for sure because I didn’t have pushrods so measured what I needed which turned out to be a stock 87-95 mustang pushrod.
Did you soak the lifters in oil
Overnight to allow them to pump up before installing them. I didn’t mention because it was a video mostly about the swap to roller installing the hold down
Hello, is this the same for both 85 and older and 86 and newer 350s?
www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-22046
Same setup
I prefer to use studs. Just My opinion
Are them lifters same as factory roller lifters ? That came in 302s
I think the oiler slot is in different location than the oem since the bore hole is different but not completely sure I didn’t compare them
@@1194video part numbers are coming up the same idk
@@frankbailey9542 well if those are same, it’s same..
From what I've researched they are the same as well guy on another video on here said the part number for the Comp Cam kit and I looked it up and it's coming up the same as a regular stock roller lifter
Link bar conversion lifter kit is $800. Yikes.
Yeah you could buy a used roller block running for that
@@1194video🎯🎯🎯 880 L31 $500-800
Did anyone notice that the lifters were prime/smoked in oil
I noticed lol
Why couldn’t you just use a gm one? Hell it’s about the same
I got this kit from my brother that decided not to use it on his engine
To oem roller cam.
? I had my car at the shop and a guy at the shop turned my roller into a flat tapped 302 and said that they are betting what do you think about that but i cannot find a video on like of anyone doing that it be the opposite like this guy in this video is doing and I have or had a 91 mustang gt 302 smh
You don’t see people taking out roller cam shafts to do flat tappet, because flat tappet is prone to wear where roller the lifter has a roller that rides on the cam rather than the friction from a flat tappet
@@1194video So basically what you're saying is that he practically ruined my engine
@@antoinehaynes8479 no not at all, a lot of old school guys live the flat tappet, you can make good power for sure and great sounding cams but they were bad about wearing if the proper measures were not taken when breaking in the engine, I like both roller and flat but I’m saying I would not choose a flat tappet over a roller lifter
don't drill to deep they go to your cam bearings
I did specify not to drill past 3/8” deep so not to drill into cam bearing. But I’m sure some will let it rip lol
@@1194video yeah I seen that after I watched that part of the video
@@boostedperformance4529 lol no worries, ppl will still drill through not paying attention. I personally would rather just buy a roller block. I think I’m going to stick this one from the mustang in my 65 f100 and build a 351 for the 67
I thought you were going to convert a flat tappet cam to a roller cam?
I did. It was a flat tappet and I changed it to a trick flow track max roller, that’s why you see in the video, roller lifters and drilling the block for the hold down for the wish bones that keep the lifters straight, I didn’t show installing the cam because if your doing a roller cam swap there is nothing extra needed to just pull out one cam and put another in its place.
@@1194video oh ok. I see what you did there. My bad. Pretty good mod my friend.
First of all you're messing with an old vibrator They was good at making noise and heating water!!
that's not good, worse if you don't use stock style lifters and don't use a small base circle camshaft. When the camshaft lobe is at its maximum, lift the hole through which the lifter fills, it is exposed to the outside of the hole in the chamfer of the block, the other problem is that the lifter guides are not well seated on the surface of the block It should be flat, as in the roller blocks, and when it is in max lift there you can see that the lifters are lifting the guides when the guides should be resting fixed on the block, that at high rpm will very likely cause them to come out the guides and the lifters turn, causing damage to the lifter shaft and filling the engine with burrs. Mexican non-roller blocks don't have that chamfer, they lend themselves better to that modification.
I have Delta Cam in Tacoma Washington grind my cam to fit the early block.
Makes sense.
LOL !!!
You, lol
Too much money!
Know what it cost? 100.00 for the kit.
Roller camshafts have a high failure rate. You do not gain enough from a roller camshaft to justify the conversion. All you get from a roller camshaft is a high maintenance engine.
Every engine pretty much past 90 is roller
Where can I find the spider legs and wishbones ? Would a ls1 cam work with this setup ?
As for cam specs, you will have to check to make sure your block is the same just non roller, then you can add roller lifters and kit to add cam. This cam roller kit is from jeggs if you want to check them out