They're balancing Warriors around the top 0.1%, which is a mistake imo, but I can understand why they're doing it, and I agree it's needed in certain scenarios. Looking at the state of things in Phase 4: 1. PvP: Warriors are the worst pvp class by far, and the only one who can't really win any 1 v 1 against any class of similar skill. They've been the worst every season so far. This is primarily because of the way Rage works and how quick SoD classes can kill each other. 2. PvE non raid content: Warriors are middle of the pack or lower in terms of DPS. This is because 1, you don't have all the world buffs and other class debuffs that cause them to scale so brokenly, and 2 things die to quickly and Warriors before the Warrior can build enough rage. 3. Soloing: Warriors are by far the worst class in the game and the only class that can't solo elites effectively. They've been the worst in every season so far. 4. In raids outside the top 90%: Warriors are near the top of dps, but not the absolute top, as Shaman's and/or Rogues do more DPS below the top 90% parses. If your raid for example falls outside the window to have Darkmoon buff, you're not gonna be beating those classes. Once you go below 90% to you often find non perfect debuff uptime from other classes, and Rogues/Shamans/Hunters are less reliant on other classes to do their damage, so even if you do have all World Buffs, it still might not be possible for you to beat those classes. 5. For top 10% to top 5%: Warriors are the best DPS in the game, but it's by a small amount(about 2% ahead of Shamans). Considering they're the worst pvp and solo class by far, and middle of the pack outside of perfect raid setup dps, I'd argue this is balanced. 6. For the 99%: Warriors are top dps, and around 11% better than the next best class. This is where I think you can start to argue that Warriors need a nerf, though considering they suck at every other aspect of the game, I still think you can argue this is balanced. 7. For "Max", or the top 0.1%: Warriors are 30% ahead of the second best class and definitely need a nerf. Warrior simply scales way too well once you completely rid them of their rage problems and put them in a scenario where every other class is playing perfectly and everyone has all world buffs and pots. The question is, how do you nerf the top 0.1% Warriors without nerfing all those other Warriors who are already struggling in Phase 3? This is the important question, and not one I really have an answer for. As of right now, phase 4 is looking to be around a 40-50% dps loss for Warriors, whereas most other classes are gaining ~5-10%. Considering Warriors at the top 0.1% are 30-50% ahead of most other classes, this probably puts them in an alright spot. They wont' be top DPS anymore, but I still think they'll be above average for most of the phase, and will probably climb back up close to the top by the end of the phase. What does this do for the average Warrior(50%ers) though, who are already middle of the pack. These are the Warriors in guild who don't care about getting their best Warrior top parses, and therefore don't care about optimizing groups and forcing their Warlocks/Druids/Rogues to keep 100% debuff uptime. These are the Warriors who's group is not good enough to 1 shot every boss, and therfore loses world buffs. These are the Warriors who can't afford to spend 40g rebuffing after every wipe. What happens to these Warriors? What happens to the PvP Warriors, who are already the worst class in the game by far? I think the DK grip is actually really good for this aspect of the game, but not enough, as it doesn't address the fundamental problems with Warrior pvp, which are 1: They don't do enough damage on their own. As mentioned above, Warriors are reliant on having 20 different buffs from world buffs/potions rolling and 10 different debuffs on the target to surpass all the other classes. On their own merits, Warriors are middle of the pack damage dealers. Even if a Warrior can survive long enough to reach max rage(basically requires a pocket healer), they'll still be a middle of the pack DPS dealer beyond that point. 2: Warrior Rage mechanic is at odds with how PvP works in SoD. SoD PvP is about how much damage can you do in 5 seconds from a cold start. Warrior DPS takes 5-10 seconds(without potions and world buffs) of autoatacking to reach max Rage, whereas most/all other classes start at full "Rage" and can kill most any player within 5-10 seconds. What happens to the solo Warriors who don't care about raiding who are already the only class that can't solo well at all? What happens when you nerf their dps by 50%? I think Jake(and many others) are looking at phase 4 balance as if only the top 0.1% matters, and even then only for PvE raiding. I think this is short sided. I think you're gonna see a lot of Warriors simply quit in phase 4(which hurts the already dwindling populations) when they find out they're now way worse at soloing, worse at PvP, bottom of the pack in terms of Dungeon dps, and only way for them to feel truly competitive is to start playing the game at a hardcore lvl and join a top 1% guild in the World. So, what to do to fix Warriors scaling problem? 1) Start removing some of these multiplicative % damage increases? (This seems to be what they're doing, and I think it's a good start, but there needs to be compensation elsewhere) 2) Rework how Deep Wounds works? (This ability is a big reason why Warriors scale so well) 3) Give Warriors more ways to start fights with enough Rage to hit a few buttons right away and get started 4) Rework Wild Strikes in some way and how it interacts with Warrior rage gain? 5) Rework the relationship/coefficients of how more dps = more rage? 6) Other ideas? It's good that they are testing this on PTR, but I think we need to provide them with feedback, and care about more than just the top 1% of end game raiders when it comes to balance.
Dude, you're literally fucking spot on so much. It's so frustrating how people just refuse to realize 95% of warrior experience is getting shit on by everyone and everything EVEN if you are very skilled.
May or may not get a response, but I can’t find a handful of your videos I referred to quite often. Your discord management video was absolutely fantastic and I don’t see it anymore
Deffo dmg nerf, but tbh i hated consumed by rage, and tbh also annoying when arms to use zerker rage for flagelation, considering you really want to sit in battle stance for overpowers most of the time anyways. So yeah as long as damage is competetive I like this, the lower cd on reck is really nice and meat hook will be awesome for pvp.
@@parkerfrode5101 25 flag, 10 cbr, 10 smf. Multiplied together there's 51% Send Arms only lost 25% what multiplier am I missing? As one nye 10% would mean 66 for dw. Og yeah and flag isn't 100% uptime likely closer to 50% and cbr is closer to high 90s
Ppl who struggle against warrior pressure are gonna hate the hook cuz that's more uptime you have in pvp as a warrior. Not to mention if your teammates are coordinated and attack the target you are attacking. ( my meters show I'm top dps in this battleground. If you don't attack my target you are bad at game.)
SoD BAD!
They're balancing Warriors around the top 0.1%, which is a mistake imo, but I can understand why they're doing it, and I agree it's needed in certain scenarios. Looking at the state of things in Phase 4:
1. PvP: Warriors are the worst pvp class by far, and the only one who can't really win any 1 v 1 against any class of similar skill. They've been the worst every season so far. This is primarily because of the way Rage works and how quick SoD classes can kill each other.
2. PvE non raid content: Warriors are middle of the pack or lower in terms of DPS. This is because 1, you don't have all the world buffs and other class debuffs that cause them to scale so brokenly, and 2 things die to quickly and Warriors before the Warrior can build enough rage.
3. Soloing: Warriors are by far the worst class in the game and the only class that can't solo elites effectively. They've been the worst in every season so far.
4. In raids outside the top 90%: Warriors are near the top of dps, but not the absolute top, as Shaman's and/or Rogues do more DPS below the top 90% parses. If your raid for example falls outside the window to have Darkmoon buff, you're not gonna be beating those classes. Once you go below 90% to you often find non perfect debuff uptime from other classes, and Rogues/Shamans/Hunters are less reliant on other classes to do their damage, so even if you do have all World Buffs, it still might not be possible for you to beat those classes.
5. For top 10% to top 5%: Warriors are the best DPS in the game, but it's by a small amount(about 2% ahead of Shamans). Considering they're the worst pvp and solo class by far, and middle of the pack outside of perfect raid setup dps, I'd argue this is balanced.
6. For the 99%: Warriors are top dps, and around 11% better than the next best class. This is where I think you can start to argue that Warriors need a nerf, though considering they suck at every other aspect of the game, I still think you can argue this is balanced.
7. For "Max", or the top 0.1%: Warriors are 30% ahead of the second best class and definitely need a nerf. Warrior simply scales way too well once you completely rid them of their rage problems and put them in a scenario where every other class is playing perfectly and everyone has all world buffs and pots.
The question is, how do you nerf the top 0.1% Warriors without nerfing all those other Warriors who are already struggling in Phase 3? This is the important question, and not one I really have an answer for.
As of right now, phase 4 is looking to be around a 40-50% dps loss for Warriors, whereas most other classes are gaining ~5-10%. Considering Warriors at the top 0.1% are 30-50% ahead of most other classes, this probably puts them in an alright spot. They wont' be top DPS anymore, but I still think they'll be above average for most of the phase, and will probably climb back up close to the top by the end of the phase.
What does this do for the average Warrior(50%ers) though, who are already middle of the pack. These are the Warriors in guild who don't care about getting their best Warrior top parses, and therefore don't care about optimizing groups and forcing their Warlocks/Druids/Rogues to keep 100% debuff uptime. These are the Warriors who's group is not good enough to 1 shot every boss, and therfore loses world buffs. These are the Warriors who can't afford to spend 40g rebuffing after every wipe. What happens to these Warriors?
What happens to the PvP Warriors, who are already the worst class in the game by far? I think the DK grip is actually really good for this aspect of the game, but not enough, as it doesn't address the fundamental problems with Warrior pvp, which are
1: They don't do enough damage on their own. As mentioned above, Warriors are reliant on having 20 different buffs from world buffs/potions rolling and 10 different debuffs on the target to surpass all the other classes. On their own merits, Warriors are middle of the pack damage dealers. Even if a Warrior can survive long enough to reach max rage(basically requires a pocket healer), they'll still be a middle of the pack DPS dealer beyond that point.
2: Warrior Rage mechanic is at odds with how PvP works in SoD. SoD PvP is about how much damage can you do in 5 seconds from a cold start. Warrior DPS takes 5-10 seconds(without potions and world buffs) of autoatacking to reach max Rage, whereas most/all other classes start at full "Rage" and can kill most any player within 5-10 seconds.
What happens to the solo Warriors who don't care about raiding who are already the only class that can't solo well at all? What happens when you nerf their dps by 50%?
I think Jake(and many others) are looking at phase 4 balance as if only the top 0.1% matters, and even then only for PvE raiding. I think this is short sided. I think you're gonna see a lot of Warriors simply quit in phase 4(which hurts the already dwindling populations) when they find out they're now way worse at soloing, worse at PvP, bottom of the pack in terms of Dungeon dps, and only way for them to feel truly competitive is to start playing the game at a hardcore lvl and join a top 1% guild in the World.
So, what to do to fix Warriors scaling problem?
1) Start removing some of these multiplicative % damage increases? (This seems to be what they're doing, and I think it's a good start, but there needs to be compensation elsewhere)
2) Rework how Deep Wounds works? (This ability is a big reason why Warriors scale so well)
3) Give Warriors more ways to start fights with enough Rage to hit a few buttons right away and get started
4) Rework Wild Strikes in some way and how it interacts with Warrior rage gain?
5) Rework the relationship/coefficients of how more dps = more rage?
6) Other ideas?
It's good that they are testing this on PTR, but I think we need to provide them with feedback, and care about more than just the top 1% of end game raiders when it comes to balance.
Dude, you're literally fucking spot on so much. It's so frustrating how people just refuse to realize 95% of warrior experience is getting shit on by everyone and everything EVEN if you are very skilled.
This video was really great, love your work
Its time for Arm Warrior to shining
Nobodys gonna be playing warr anymore lol
Is it just me or is new flagelation worse than old blood frenzy?
I am going to be the most brutal arms warrior killing machine, i thought taste for blood was good, this is gonna be disgusting PVPHYPE!
May or may not get a response, but I can’t find a handful of your videos I referred to quite often. Your discord management video was absolutely fantastic and I don’t see it anymore
unlisted all the videos with low views. I can post that one here later today
ruclips.net/video/pdWsWrBF87k/видео.html
Here it is, but its just saying to have less channels and give people a reason to engage with discord
Deffo dmg nerf, but tbh i hated consumed by rage, and tbh also annoying when arms to use zerker rage for flagelation, considering you really want to sit in battle stance for overpowers most of the time anyways. So yeah as long as damage is competetive I like this, the lower cd on reck is really nice and meat hook will be awesome for pvp.
65% damage nerf for warrior with all the p4 stuff.
@@parkerfrode5101 25 flag, 10 cbr, 10 smf. Multiplied together there's 51%
Send
Arms only lost 25% what multiplier am I missing? As one nye 10% would mean 66 for dw.
Og yeah and flag isn't 100% uptime likely closer to 50% and cbr is closer to high 90s
thanks for content man, keeps me away from rerolling to paladin🤡
Damn im actually considering coming back to sod with all these cool warrior changes that are long overdue
really? MEAT HOOK and you use blitzcrank instead of SCORPION FROM MORTAL KOMBAT? B R U H
beep bop
Real skilled warriors don't need shitty dk abilities. They can nerf it and I'll still main warrior in pvp and pve.
Ppl who struggle against warrior pressure are gonna hate the hook cuz that's more uptime you have in pvp as a warrior. Not to mention if your teammates are coordinated and attack the target you are attacking. ( my meters show I'm top dps in this battleground. If you don't attack my target you are bad at game.)
Great vid! Excited for phase 4.