Why Didn’t Sidious Welcome Maul Back as a Sith Apprentice or Ally After Discovering he Survived?
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2020
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The Non-Canon Expert looks at why Darth Sidious didn't welcome Maul back as his Sith Apprentice or even a potential ally after discovering he survived his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi on Naboo and ultimately returned during the Clone Wars, explaining Darth Sidious's thoughts about the Rule of Two, his history with Mother Talzin, and what Sidious's plans for Maul were prior to his defeat during Episode 1: The Phantom Menace.
This is a Legends and Canon story for Darth Sidious and Maul with information found in a number of sources, but primarily within the Canon 2015 Darth Vader comic series, the Canon "Star Wars: Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir" comic series, the Legends "Star Wars: Darth Plagueis" novel, the Book of Sith reference book, and the Canon "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" TV series. I hope that you enjoy it!
Decisions by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
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Artist: incompetech.com/
A Dream Within a Dream by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: www.twinmusicom.org/song/301/a...
Artist: www.twinmusicom.org 
Развлечения
Imagine every apprentice you train end up losing to Obi-Wan
Except Dooku...
@DisIsWhale Obiwan lost to Dooku twice.
@DisIsWhale Anakin killed Obiwan
@@RAJ1 actually Obi wan didn't lose he became one with the force
@@emanuelrossespino7423 ........Obi wan had to die to become a force ghost.
Let’s be honest Dooku was the only Sith that could rule the galaxy. Palpatine‘s empire was unstable and Maul and Vader were no political leaders.
Öntas Bülent yep, on my opinion dooku would have been a much better choice
Darth Sidious Ah, you would know, huh.
Darth Sidious I don’t like yo any more I was a fan once but since what you did to Jessie
JAYLAN YOUNG - STUDENT I know I’m just saying he was the only one that could have ruled
Darth Sidious I can see through the lies of the Sith now. The Power of the dark side is a lie.
The extra effort of the Clone Wars artists using motion capture and bringing Ray Park, the actor for the original Maul. It showed and was pure brilliance.
Troll uNeed dumb
Does he voice him as well??
But that was sam witwer?
The behind the scenes is great for that episode. I really didn't understand until I watched it.
Motion capture for Maul’s *movements*. Not his voice knucklehead.
Their battle on Mandalore was epic, easily one of the best lightsaber battles
I agree.
Heck yeah
Yes 😁👍🏽
Overrated, people are only supporting this circlejerk cause we’re finally getting a real CW conclusion. Still the best on CW but it wasn’t really that amazing imo
@@BabyKobeeee Idk its reasonable to love it, its motion capped, the fight was super smooth and acrobatic, and damn was it fun to watch. Ahsoka gets to fight a real sith lord
Short answer... Anakin. Can you blame Palpatine?! The Kid was the best fighter pilot, one of the youngest Jedi knights, was basically a Broken Xbox in war, he didn't play no games.
That’s bars
😂😂💪🏽
Unoriginal joke.But seriously not even a brand new xbox can play games
BARS!
Now THIS is Podracin!
Short answer: he already had a plan and he wanted anakin as his apprentice.
judeskater93 That and Maul suffered a humiliating defeat on Naboo and was damaged goods anyways
matthew mann so did anakin when fighting obi wan
Archington and he tried to replace him many times for his failure
@@matthewmann8969 Then why did Sidious allow Vader to stay with him? he was just as damaged.
@@vanmoody The only reason Sidious took back Vader was because he was his only option-- and seeing that Maul survived, Vader might too.
Because he was only half the person he was before 😂😂😂
Badum Tss! XD
Peterrussell71 Well I mean, Vader was like... 1/5 of the person he was lol
suddenly Im not half the man I used to be
His new legs make him look taller...
@@llsld5808 there's a shadow hanging over me
I think Sidious didn't accept Maul back because he saw that Maul was training Savage as an apprentice. In the scene when Maul and Sidious meet again on Mandalore, the camera pans to Savage when Sidious says "You are attempting to deceive me. You have become a rival." If Maul hadn't taken on Savage as an apprentice, Sidious would have been more likely to take him back.
Wrong, Sidious never planned to take back Maul. Sidious already had Anakin in his grand plan
@@DatMandalorian the nigga has inquisitors so that's bull shit
Young CA you do realize inquisitors are NOT sith right. Maul was taught as a Sith. So again, WRONG!
Young CA and he lost three of them to maul
Jake Alter , i believe it was 4, the one he stole the saber from, and the three he killed on malacore
Apparently Kenobi seemed to be an expert at messing up Sidious’ apprentices
The Nova renaissance Who trained the guy that killed Dooku again?
After "The Phantom Apprentice", it all links back to this. Maul talking about building an empire to show Sidious he still has value and to rejoin him. But Sidious knew about Maul's true intention, as revealed in that episode, to lure and kill Anakin. Clone Wars was godlike.
Yeah and even if Maul did plan to truly become a server under Sidious again I doubt Sidious would of accepted because Mauls failure on Naboo and getting physically and mentally damaged as a result was a unacceptable feat for Sidious so even if Sidious found out Maul survived immediately after Mauls losing streak he would of still left him there to rot due to failing him in a huge way especially when he had Dooku who had not failed him in a embarrassing manner
I'd image that it's because if Dooku found out that the guy that killed Qui Gon survived it probably wouldn't go over well(for Maul). Plus by the point anyone found out Maul survived, it was well into the war and Dooku by that point was much more valuable (politically, militarily) than Maul. Just my opinion though.
Maul would've killed Dooku as he viewed him as not a real Sith
Maul would have definitely beaten dooku
you should read the son of dathomir comic (it's canon) if you haven't. Maul captures dooku- it's quite interesting
Casey K and he beats grievous as well
@@matthaley7839 Prove it
I see the larger problems as the "working relationship" between Maul and Dooku. Maul would not settle for being an underling. He would see Dooku as holding his rightful position and want it back as a pretender / former Jedi now holds it. Dooku may likewise see Maul as a threat to his position or he may just look down on him and mistreat him because of this. Either way, the two likely would have had power plays to weaken each other and better themselves. in doing so, their power would wane. In that happening, Sidious would also lose power as his underlings warred with each other. its even possible this infighting would be a threat to their secrecy. Sidious would not have it. this connects to your point about infighting of the Sith, albeit more how I see it going down. Sidious likely recognized that the hand he already had was a great hands, and while the other card was "useful", it wasn't for his schemes
Rob Walker not only dooku would look down upon maul for being half metal he sees it as imperfect and disgusting I think they would never get along
@@fettcuz7050 I forgot about that view of Dooku. Yeah, he would not like Maul
Maul and dooku would work together to kill sidius. That's why sidius didn't allow it. Maul has proven to be as cunning and patient as dooku.
I can see them faking the fighting to simply get to sidius when he's vulnerable
this has been the most insightful comment i've ever read.
there would definitely be some conflict but ultimately dooku didn't crave the power of the force, he wanted political power, and even then it was just a means to an end of the corrupt republic and jedi. he would probably have to fight maul but once maul realizes he's not a good match for him in combat as well as he has different goals from him entirely, i think their would be some mutual agreement between the two. Now where i see the biggest issue is where not only is Maul responsible for the death of his former Padwan Qui Gon Jinn but he's also constantly pursuing his revenge on Obi Wan, which would be a problem, seeing as Dooku wants Obi Wan to join them. I think Dooku would kill maul bc of that more so than his position in the Sith order.
Lore Answer: Because there can only be two.
Practical answer: Maul wasn't in the originals.
originals what?
Sneaky Greninja I am sure he meant Original Trilogy
Imagine how much more dangerous the Sith could've been if Sidious actually made Mother Talzin his apprentice instead of Maul.
"You have been replaced!"
The Sith moved on without him tbh
Like a gay break up
Seeing this video got me to re-watch the Sidious vs. Maul and Savage fight. It's my favorite lightsaber fight in the CW, such a classic.
Maul was like, ‘Why do I hear boss music?’, and then Sidious sauntered in.
Honestly I don't think sidious wanted another sith. Dooku was already a sith lord, and while Palpatine didn't respect the rule of two, he was smart enough to realize that it was dangerous to have many powerful dark siders around him. Especially since maul and Dooku together could legitimately threaten him once you consider their own supporters
I think if Maul has not lost he would have been used like a mixture of both Dooku and Grievous.
The Plagueis novel should be canon.
I agree, along with the Darth Bane trilogy
Feats between canon and legends don't fit together at all.I get it you guys only care about story but it would be a nightmare for us power scaling guys.Imo they should make a movie losely based on the novel
Plagueis needs a trilogy to show his wisdom.
Sidious needs a stand alone movie to show how sick and powerful he was.
Bane needs a series to show his struggles.
There is nothing that contradicts canon in the story line, as it takes place decades before the events of The Phantom Menace. I would MUCH rather watch a TV series about a young Palpatine being trained by Plagueis than that crappy Cassian Andor show they have planned.
Cannon Shmanen. Legends EU Please. So much more content that actually fits.....
Everyone always misses the biggest reason: Maul knew Sidious was Palpatine,if the Jedi were to capture him he could tell them. Matter of he had to kill Maul,Savage and Talzin because all three knew and none were trustworthy.
But what if he did? What if he hadn’t become a rival?
It's pronounced "raaaiiiiiivaaaaaahhl"
It’s a good question. Unfortunately Maul suffered from a loss of his Midiorians as did Vader, however if he had been accepted back, there’s virtually no chance he would have turned on Sidious like Vader did. He would have killed Luke without mercy if he existed. And this would have guaranteed Sidious’ ultimate victory.
Even if he had to wait for a true replacement apprentice, he would have had the time to do so without the threat of the Rebellion. Eventually Sidious would have found a replacement for Maul, trained the new apprentice, who would kill Maul, and transferred his essence.
I've always wondered why maul didn't replace dooku after he was executed. Anakin wasn't a sith at the time and maul wanted to be sidious's apprentice
@Laith Rajha Yeah, but they essentially destroyed that specific storyline with the new Cannon.
@Laith Rajha I'll have to see if there is a SW comics video on it.
Imagine if he did. 😱
Scary
Bum bum buuuuuum
The Rebels wouldn't stand a chance. They'd be defeated in an instant. The Galaxy would have been ruined.
I think the fact that Maul clearly had his own ambitions that could interfere with Sidious's plans was probably a factor too. It's not like Maul came right back to Sidious, he got his own apprentice and organized a whole crime organization first, and then Sidious had to come to him.
I would argue that Maul, like Vader, was too obsessed with Kenobi and that would be a reason why Palpatine didn’t put him back in the fold, he could jeopardize the grand plan.
Joseph McGuire ironically it was Kenobi who crippled both of them and ultimately brought down the sith by training Luke, I bet that palpatine came to truly hate kenobi later on
I can understand why Sidious didn’t take Maul back:
First: Maul was a failure as far as Sidious was concerned....for all the hype and excuses made, Maul was defeated by a Jedi Padawan in what was basically single combat at that point.
Second: Sidious was clearly molding Anakin and gaining his trust from the time he was a child because he knew what he would be capable of...Maul was likely inevitably going to be replaced by Anakin anyways.
Third: Even in Maul’s prime, he was no match force wise to Anakin/Vader...not even close
Finally: The way Maul BEGGED and pleaded with Sidious after getting his ass handed to him confirmed that he was weak, a shadow of his former self
Sidious could arrange a duel between Maul and Dooku so he could see who is most powerful.
there was a fight between Vader and Maul, and Vader struggled a lot with the duel. Vader is extremely weak if you think about it, he's a crybaby always whining about Padme and lost a lot of force sensitivity. Maul has always had brilliant physique and lightsaber skills, not so much force abilities. Maul begged to Palpatine because he's basically the closest thing he has to a father, not because of some weakness.
pleading for his life? how was that weak, vader and dooku would do the same. not to mention maul was growing stronger than he was before, it was simply because his plan was in motion and maul wasnt a part of it, dookus well established political pull was more useful to him at the time than mauls power.
@@maikatideibaskapanaumrqlatupa legends Vader was pretty inconsistent, but generally agreed to be strong, but extremely vulnerable to shit. Canon Vader would wipe Maul though. Come to think of it, Canon Maul is pretty pathetic
@@johnapple6646 Canon Maul's force feats are beyond most high tier force users lol. How is he pathetic?
Maul had grown too strong. As paplatine said, he was a rival. Too dangerous to be an apprentice. He would have liked to replace Dooku, but Maul had become too powerful for his gains to outweigh the risks.
Dooku is an even greater risk though
@@397llederson6 He's more powerful than Maul yes, but not more cunning or ambitious than Maul which is what makes him more dangerous.
Sunada maul had more potential at full potential maul would best dooku but he never reached it
@@magnol1a_ Cunning is arguable as Dooku was one of the intelligent beings in the verse and basically made Grievous as deadly as he was in Legends
@@magnol1a_ uhhhh have you seen the new episode mual most definitely surpassed dooku
But why didn’t he just ditch Dooku, it’s been said BY SIDIOUS that Maul was “a real loss” while Dooku simply “served his purpose”
Heely Gamer Dooku was a very powerful Sith in his own right, not to mention the head of the largest military force in the galaxy. Ditching him would result in Sidious losing control of the CIS and by extension the Clone Wars.
As for that conversation with Vader, it's difficult to judge Sidious' honesty as Vader even calls him out on it in the same scene. I imagine if Dooku had defeated Anakin, Sidious would be telling him that he had always been his 1st choice apprentice.
Heely Gamer Because Maul was crippled and lost many years of training hence was powerful but not as powerful as he could have been had he had his whole body intact and did not miss those years of teachings he was only deemed a threat to Sidious when he had Talzin, Savage, And The Nightsisters on his side he was not a threat without there aid Dooku was even said by Dave Feloni to be the more powerful of the two
Killer288 oh fuck yeah I never thought of that
Obviously because Dooku did serve the purpose while Maul didn't. My guess is Sidious shamed Vader because he knows him thoroughly as he knew and understood Dooku who had also been a former Jedi. While Maul acted solely as a rogue assassin, Dooku's as well as Vader's deep running, subconscious adherence to tradition and honor were reason enough to bind them closer to Sidious that way. After all, we know Sidious is the master of manipulation.
That is because, once Anakin was in the picture, he would have accepted neither.
You see, Maul was trained as an actual apprentice, Dooku was not. If Maul won against Obiwan, he would have still be cast aside when Anakin was old enough.
Imagine if Maul was never injured on Naboo and continued his training under Sidious
Sidious himself stated Maul's potential was almost as high as his own
Jon Hammond yeah if not higher, he chose Maul over Mother Talzin so that’s saying something
Alex M thank you because that’s what I’ve been saying omg
@@SleepingLion525 probably cuz Talzin already rivaled Sidious in terms of power, and so he couldn't use someone that could easily oppose him. Plus she was a Nightsister witch, and they work sort of differently than Sith, as they have stronger connections and mastery to the Dark Side than Sith.
I wish she didn't die, she was a beast
@@oryxthetakenking8275 no.
Sidious wanted someone who become stronger than him.
Sidious chose maul because maul had a higher potential than Talzin and was younger.
Because in a New Hope, Maul wasn’t a character yet so TCW writers had to make sure the canon matched so that’s why Sidious never considered it.
I'm not sure if this has been answered in either Canon or legends but I was thinking what the outcome and progressions would have been if Maul won on Naboo and killed Kenobi?
Dooku seems like one of the most important tools for Sidious. Not only was he extremely powerful but he also had high status in the galaxy as the count of serreno. He was the head of the CIS and alot of rulers from other planets looked up to him and followed his lead. Maul could have not had been used in this position in my opinion.
Maybe if Maul lives then grievous never gets created and maul takes on that role.
If anyone has any answers for me Canon or legends would be awesome. Or any thoughts or opinions or theories of your own would be great too!
Eric Sterner Well in Legends Dooku was valued by both Plagueis and Sidious more even before Maul got defeated alive or dead or undead note that as a Jedi Master Dooku was more powerful then Sidious And Plagueis combined when both were still alive that is Sidious only became Jedi Master Dookus equal in power after he eliminated Plagueis and we know that The Phantom Menace Maul was way below in power to Plagueis and Sidious so that would mean Dooku pre Plagueis Death was way above all of them and Dooku became even more powerful as a sith Lord and note in the Jedi order he was considered only second to Yoda in force power and his lightsaber skills were near unmatched except against a very few so if Maul in Legends would have not got defeated then I doubt he would still be as powerful as Dooku be it Dooku as a Jedi Master or Sith Lord nor as skilled in lightsaber combat he would probably have a similar role to General Grievous and both Maul And Dooku would later be discarded and framed as scapegoats after the war since Sidious saw Anakin as his true prize prior to the injuries on Mustafar that is.
Now in Canon it is a bit more complicated Maul was said to have the potential to become more powerful then Mother Talzin so Sidious actually saw Maul as a true sith apprentice until Maul was humuliatingly defeated on Naboo by A Padawan Obi Wan and note this was Obi Wan before he mastered or was close to mastering Seresu and Ataru mixed together so Maul being defeated be it by hubris or skill or both was considered a insult to Sidious and Maul was crippled hence making him a example of failure on that mission so after that yes Sidious considered Maul a loss but by that I think he meant Maul was meant to be so much more had he had his body in place and order but after that he decided he would replace Maul with a well known, respected, powerful, philosophical, political, ideal, Jedi Master who was considered to be second to Yoda in force power and skill sets with wisdom and lightsaber skills problem was Dooku was too old when he turned but he was not a cripple either with any body parts missing but by that point Dooku was doomed because Sidious discovered the supposed Chosen One with the highest midi chlorian count even higher then Yodas but problem was he was too young at the time and wanted Anakin to be trained by the Jedi while also planting seeds in Anakins head to turn him to the dark side possibly in the future so by that point Anakin was his ultimate choice until of course Anakin got beat on Mustafar which ironically he was more damaged up then Maul was.
One word: Anakin. Palpatine wanted him as an apprentice because he had the potential to be more powerful than Maul and Dooku.
or Sidious. The point of the rule of two for the master is to teach an apprentice that has the potential to get more powerful as his master.
Maul and Dooku never had this potential. Anakin at the other hand was the only known force sensetive that was more giftet than Sidious himself
Potential? He is more powerful i mean he IS the chosen one
@@Muzan_JacksonHEEHEE Potential. Just because he's the chosen one doesn't mean he's immediately the strongest.
Since Maul already knew of Dooku's existence, this would create a rivalry between the two, possibly ending in Dooku's premature death. His position at the head of the confederacy was too important until the time was right.
No Maul was not more powerful then Dooku not even by Rebels it would make no sense for Maul to be after all he was damaged not just physically but mentally and emotionally and lost training for a decade
Well to Sidious it wasn’t personal
Maul until Anakin came along was a true Sith, as a weapon as well as a Dark Lord
His deeds in Clone Wars further confirmed it as he build his Shadow Collective from nothing
But Sidious truly thought he died in Naboo, and he needed a placeholder for Anakin quickly for his plans
Dooku became essential for the Clone Wars, as his political connections and charisma, and his former experience as a Jedi made it necessary to create and maintain the CIS and fight the Jedi
When Maul reappeared after a decade, Sidious was generally suprised, but on one hand, instead of returning Maul trained his own apprentice in Savage and made the Shadow Collecrtive as a rival faction to his plans
Sidious was impressed but as the reigning Dark Lord he had to take out any rival that stand in his way, as Maul felt abandoned by Sidious and truly raised his apprentice and faction to rival his rule
But it seems Sidious was in no hurry to kill him, despite him technically being a violation to the Rule of Two. As he had multiple chances to kill him but didn’t. It’s as if he wanted to see him keep going and see how far his former apprentice would go To entertain him
Had Anakin hasn’t been in the picture or his disappearance in Naboo, Sidious May truly wanted Maul to be his right hand man
But Dooku was still an option
397 Llederson yes he was
The Sith choose the strongest to their ranks
If he had beaten Anakin in their duel then he earned his place
Although Palpatine ordered Dooku to hold back and goad Anakin, if he went full out against Anakin and won then Sith tradition dictates he earns his place at Sidious’ side
@@christophersanchez7731 Actually the novelization says Dooku went all out as he thought "Hey If i hold back I'll lose
I think Sidious originally was gonna keep Maul until Naboo. If Obi-Wan never defeated Maul and Anakin wasn't in the picture, Maul would have stayed as the second Dark Lord of the Sith. Maybe that's another reason he wanted to kill Anakin.
He has been... *replaced!*
I love these types of videos❤️
Please continue🙏🏽😂
Excellent video, best one I’ve seen in quite a while. ✌🏼
Here is the simplest and shortest answer, PLOT. ROTS came before clone wars thus dooku had to stay sidious’s apprentice.
And Dooku was more powerful then Maul even by The Son Of Dathomir
Does anyone else want a what if comic or book that departs with maul being victorious in episode 1 and helping with the machinations for the clone wars? An Asohka and Maul team up what if story is something else they need to do.
Love your videos, and the maul and savage vs. darth sidious duel is one of my favorite lightsaber duels in all of star wars.
I'm guessing Maul was also supposed to be to Sidious what General Grievous was. A cold blooded Jedi killer who could spark terror into the hearts of the citizens of the galaxy, and make them eager to surrender their freedom to a charismatic leader who promised order.
Legends Maul was meant to most likely be in the roles of Grievous And Asajj although more valuable then those two combined due to skill, experience, and potential but he would be lower on the totem pole compared to Dooku And Sidious in those pyramids yeah.
Canon Maul was meant to possibly succeed Sidious one day since he had a potential bigger then Talzins own but all that plan went away once Maul got handicapped up long ways and because of the discovery of Anakin yeah.
He didnt underestimate my power
Anakin Skywalker dont try it
Why tho
I see a lot of "short answer" comments and they all miss the mark.
Real answer: Maul was never really Sidious's apprentice, he was a tool and Sidious said this multiple times. Just as Dooku used Ventress with no intention of having her as a true apprentice.
I humbly disagree. I feel like Maul WAS Sidious's apprentice, but he still had no intention of Maul ever replacing him. Though, I agree that Maul was just a tool, for indeed everyone was but a pawn to Palpy. He would be the eternal master of the Sith and the Galaxy, and his apprentice would be just an enforcer, be it Maul or Vader.
Maul was loss and Tyranus was a like a torpedo bomb once it fulfilled it purpose it’s of no use. -Sidious to Vader
@@dasbubba841 I think everyone is a tool to Sidious. He told Luke to strike his father down and take his place at Sidious' side. Sidious is a user of people.
wrong
@@khaleel2232 Maul was a embarrassing failure no longer worthy of the sith title once he lost on Naboo Dooku was too old when he became a sith and did not fully emerge himself in the dark side and Anakin had the highest midichlorian count of all time
He says it himself in the clone wars-
"The first rule of the sith: there can only be two, a master, and an apprentice. And you have been REPLACED!"
I allways thought that the true reason was simply the fact that Maul failed in killing Obi Wan in episode 1. Like Dooku said to Savage Oppress when he killed king Katuunko and begged for forgiveness: That is not the way of the dark side. And like Sidious said to Maul when he begged for mercy: There is no mercy.
Maul beeing the son of mother Talzin was just a fortunate coincidence for Sidious which lead him to one of his greatest enemies.
Just look too anakin he never beged for mercy
I wonder why... he was fucking burning
@@lordescanor8232 Anakin was not bisected though nor was he beaten by a Padawan
So sideous would never make the same mistake of building an army of sith, but then he created the inquisitorious (while not sith, were dark side force users)
Ciaban K Ahsoka beat an inquisitor without her lightsabers imagine what palpatine would do to them
@@thesenate5584 Yes, but allowing that many dark siders to roam around is dangerous, since if any find Sith artifacts or worse, get trained by Vader, they could be a threat. It seems very unnecessary.
Ciaban K they did have some training from Vader
They only received so much training in the dark side, they weren't allowed to know any sith secrets, just how to use their base emotions. Most, if not all, of the Inquisitors were former Jedi. None of which could touch Vader. They were only expected to root out and kill surviving Jedi padawans and knights. Higher ranking Masters were handled by Vader himself. The Inquisitors were nothing more than Dark Jedi assassins.
@@Wyte-noyz But sideous is hope/expecting that vader never selects any of them to be an apprentice to rise up against him.
Darth sidious's plans had moved on to such an extent by that time darth maul had no place in them anymore, plus his next apprentice is Anakin Skywalker, count dooku is still needed to keep the clone wars going and to test Anakins power, maul being mostly robotic and not to the level of skill that he once was he was no longer useful to sidious in terms of the future of the sith
Indeed, and I think Sidious would have bigger plans for Maul if he was not so overconfident on Naboo.
@@KobaLenk He's Not
Needed Anymore,Anakin Was
Far More Powerful
Strongly disagree with that last bit. Dave Filoni confirmed that clone wars era Maul was the strongest version of Maul
@@STEELGMBL the strongest version of maul? Defeated by ashoka tano?? Hmm, I think he might exaggerating there
@@phantomsidious2934 For one, Maul was going easy on her(even though I knew going in they'd somehow make him the loser in that confrontation), and yes his isolation all those years made him much more attune to the dark side
Don't forget that there were other era's of three sith lords in the baneite sith. Darth Bane took a second apprentice when Zannah was taking too long to usurp him, when Millennial fled his master forcing Cognus to seek a new apprentice, and Venamis who was the secret apprentice of Tenebrous.
I haven’t commented on your videos In forever, and I haven’t been to your streams in forever. Life’s been crazy, but on the bright side I can catch up on all your content :)
I think the rule of two is more important than we know. There were only 5 in the clone wars and they were all trying to murder each other.
He didn’t kill Maul. By rule of 2, he was a rival Sith and his death was required. Yet, he let Maul live. Maul was a part of the plan, but he ultimately failed his mission and did not kill Obi Wan.
Most awesome vid!!!!!!
You could view that having Plagueis, Palpatine, and Maul all being Sith at the same time was following the rule of two since at this point Palpatine didn't consider Plagueis to be an actual Sith since he knew he was going to be dead soon. In Plapatines mind he already was the master of Maul and didn't see himself as the apprentice of Plageius anymore.
I mean, Sidious literally said "too bad you are now a Rival".
I'm pretty sure that had Maul not taken his brother as an apprentice, but had accomplished any or all of this by himself, Sidious might have taken him back even if not as an apprentice anymore.
Maul was trained as a third Sith. Darth Sidious was still an apprentice to Darth Pleagueis when he began training Maul. Darth Plagueis was still alive until right after Palpatine was publicly set up to become the next Chancellor. That is when Sidious killed his master. Rule of Two didnt matter to those two. Sidious seemed to just not accept failure.
I mean, there’s also the fact that Maul had by that point gone relatively insane. Evil as you may be, you probably don’t want a loose cannon running around and potentially messing up your master plan
You've survived, you won the prize
The thing is I don’t get Palpatine when it comes to the Rule of Two. It states there can only be two, no more, no less. Palpatine follows this so that’s calm.
But the rule of two states that the master trains the apprentice and the apprentice kills the master and the cycle repeats. But the master shouldn’t be trying to delay this and should accept that their apprentice will kill them and take their place. They should also accept that they’re going to die and not try to find ways of working a way around it. It’s supposed to happen naturally.
If you look at Palpatine he doesn’t follow this. He made Vader’s suit weak to lightning so Vader couldn’t overthrow him. Died and resurrected himself in a clone body and just doesn’t seem to accept that he will die at his apprentices hand.
Therefore I would say Palpatine doesn’t wholesomely follow the Rule of Two and isn’t a true Post-Bane Sith. That’s why it confuses me when he goes on about the Rule of Two because he is selective about what part he follows
He is very selfish, and power-hungry.
I love the idea of The Emperor having his own Sith horsemen of the apocalypse. Vader, Maul, Ventress and Starkiller would be the best mix for me.
Been a sub since under 2k subs I'm pretty sure u can see that on your end crazy how thing grow
I always wondered why Maul didn't aim himself at Dooku. Sith doctrine also states that the strongest is the most worthy, and he had no idea about Palpatine's plans for Anakin. I don't know why he wouldn't immediately aim to try to take back his old place.
me paying attention to what they were saying in that episode knowing that sidious said that maul had become a rival
@Ms Taylor how does that change the fact that sidious said that maul had become a rival
@Ms Taylor he literally said that he was a rival as soon as he started the fight with maul and savage
@Ms Taylor just watched the episode from the beginning of the fight onward. its just sidious calling maul a rival, them fighting some, cuts to kenobi escaping, cuts back to maul and savage fighting sidious, savage dies, then the whole first and only reality of the sith charad, and sidious ragdolls maul some. so in what part of the rest of the episode does he say a single thing about mother talson.
@Ms Taylor he said he was a rival. go watch the seen and as he pushes maul and savage against the glass at the beginning of the fight he says it
Maul actually told Sidious he’s a Sith Lord, and Sidious says “a Sith Yes but Lord not even close”
Love this channel as much as you love the word "machinations"! Lol 😎
You failed to mention sidius even said to maul during their dual "You have become a rival"
Poor Maul, Man cant get NO love! Smh..
Star Wars Reading Club, I have three reasons why Sidious didn't ally with Maul or welcome him back to the Sith: In the Clone Wars season 5 episode "The Lawless" before they began the duel, Sidious stated to Maul, "You (Maul) have become a rival"! Maul was a rival for three reasons, two of which you stated or eluded to in your video: First, in canon, he took Savage Opress as his Sith apprentice, thus starting Maul's own Sith order. Second, Maul also said in an earlier Clone Wars episode to Pre Visla before beginning the Shadow Collective that he and Opress "were the true Lords of the Sith"! Finally, third, as you stated so eloquently, Maul had a strong connection to Mother Talzin, his mother and a powerful enemy to Sidious! Your thoughts on this information, Star Wars Reading Club??🤔
Please revisit the video
Travis Casper Well that and Maul who was cut in half and missed many years of training from dark side magic is and dark side force use
Drinking Challenge: Take a sip every time the phrase "Sith Grand Plan" is said.
Another important quote from just before the duel between Sidious, Maul and Savage started.
"You have made yourself a rival."
Unless I'm misremembering the line, at this point Sheev Palpatine now considered Maul a distraction and a nuisance to be broken. Maul might go back to Mandalore and create the Crimson Dawn but all of that will be taken from him by Mauls hubris or the Empire, leaving Maul the even more broken individual we find in Rebels whose only remaining goal is find and kill Kenobi... which he will also fail at.
Maul in theory could be skilled or strong enough to qualify as a Shadow Guardsman. At least his strength, skill, etc., would still be useful to Sidious.
I figured the biggest reason was because he got defeated and that goes against the sith rule of 2
Keeping Maul in secrecy would've been very beneficial to Sidious and the empire. While the inquisitors were pretty well known by the general public, they'd have no idea about Maul if Sidous kept him in check and let him continue with Crimson Dawn. That would greatly widen the empire's already large influence and vast knowledge. Because Crimson Dawn doesn't just rely on Bounty Hunters, they rely on criminals or anyone just trying to get paid. So having several spies within the rebel alliance being only traced back to one of the leaderships in Crimson Dawn monarchy would save everyone's skin. Especially if the person who sent spy happened to be low on the totem pole of the organization, then there would be no trouble at all. And then anyone knowing too much or potentially spilling the beans, would then get killed by a higher up or Maul.
As well as If Sidious needed someone to accompany Vader but didn't trust the inquistors to effectively help, then Maul could go.
This sounds like the ambience music used in Channel Federator. 🤔
He would’ve been one damn good inquisitor
Don't disrespect Maul like that he was much more powerful than any simple Inquisitor
Jon Hammond that’s literally my point
Don't disrespect Maul like that hes
Based 4life finish the sentence
The Nova renaissance YOURE LITERALLY MAKING MY POINT THANK YOU.
Another issue was the fact that Maul had his own agenda...
I kind of felt that in the Maul: Lockdown novel, Plagueis and Sidious never really took Maul serious. And Maul was pissed about it too. They never really told him of the specifics of their plans and kept testing him and he was pissed about it. Not sure if Maul wanted to be Sidious' apprentice again.
Or because he knew the possibility of Maul and Dooku teaming up to overthrow him.
Fair enough, but the question has to be asked, considering that in canon and legends, Sidious tried to push Vader towards a desire to replace him, why did he do this if he believed he would reign eternal. Even in RoS he believes that Anakin as Vader will eclipse his power. Can you address this disparity?
I wish I had Maul's eyes. Am I the only one that finds Sith eyes beautiful?
They're pretty cool tbh
They only looked really cool when Anakin had them for that brief time when he was killing the separatists
With Maul taking on his own apprentice (i.e. Savage), Palpatine now considered him a rival and had to take him down. Palpatine actually told Maul during the clone wars episode that he now considered him as a rival.
Now these are the kinds of questions that matter!
Why not keep him and have him then duel Anakin to see that he’s more powerful then both of his apprentices and destroy the criminal underworld as well. I’m just saying
Because Maul was a cripple and without Talzin and the Nightsisters and Savage backing him Maul was not considered a threat by himself not only was he crippled but he lost many years of sith training hence was not what he could be in a one on one fight with Maul against Dooku note that Maul only captured Dooku and Grievous because he had them outnumbered on his home turf on equal footing and no back up just with there own powers and skills mono e mono Dooku would beat Maul with force powers and lightsaber skills yes Maul once had the potential to become more powerful then Talzin but that was lost when he was cut off on the wayside and lost many years of training be it by the Nightsisters or The Sith so because of those reasons he never reached his full potential and could not without assistance from The Nightsisters and especially Talzin just like Savage
@@matthewmann8969 it's debatable. Dooku is
better, but it's circumstancial. Same situation with anakin/dooku.
Dooku, mace, maul and anakin are all in the same tier. With mace and dooku having the defacto edge over their younger peers. That said, under the right conditions either maul or anakin could beat their better. Dooku/mace would just get more wins by ep 3. But barely. It'd be like 6/10.
Jiron127 wtf are you talking about They are not in the same tier at all, maybe Mace and Dooku but still Mace’s OP Vapaad could counter both Dooku and a dark Anakin. I’d say Maul and Yoda at the top and directly under them Dooku and Anakin at his prime. Maul not even close, and I’m a maul fan but the CW made him look embarrassingly weak. I don’t think he won a single lightsaber encounter on that whole show.
@@BabyKobeeee Dave filoni, you know the guy who writes the show. Has already said clone wars maul is in the realm of vader. So it really doesn't matter what you think?
Yes, dooku and mace are more powerful. But again saber duels in star wars are circumstancial. For example, dooku is old. So a fast strong opponent like maul or anakin can wear him down over time. Whereas dooku easily curb stomps obi wan like every time lol. Yet maul out performs obi wan, in a good saber battle. Whereas anakin is even with obi wan. Yet beats dooku.
Maul has briefly battled mace and was fine. If anything mace wouldn't get a large amp for fighting maul. Maul can control his anger, unlike anakin. Sidius is so evil, maces amp went off the charts. But mace would beat maul in a good fight. Obviously he beat sidius.
There was a comic were Sidious cloned Maul and had them fight lol.
Because he was a pawn, and already played his part. Just like dooku
87Tempests except palpatine actually regret loosing maul, he actually said as much to Vader
That's not true in the slightest. Maul was the original apprentice before Anakin or Dooku and losing him was a real setback for Sidious
@@STEELGMBL false. Palpatine sees the future and knew he would die. Why would he make Anakin with the force if he wasn't supposed to replace maul? Did you see him crying over dooku? No, he wanted him to die because it was anakins time to replace him, just as he wanted luke to take vaders place. He doesn't keep apprentices for a long time because they will eventually try to steal his power
@@87Tempests Plagueis made Anakin, not Palpatine lol. And yes in the Plagueis novel(I think) Sidious describes a feeling off being lost and a bit loneliness when Maul died. His plans initially were very much compromised the moment maul died
@@STEELGMBL it was Palpatine, sorry. And the novels are not part of George Lucas cannon, he doesn't control what the authors write. He has publicly dismissed them, he only acknowledges the films
maul: ''anakin skywalker has long groomed for his role, as my master's new apprentice.'' maul wanted to kill anakin from the beginning, I guess since Season 5 Episode 16 ''The Lawless''
It’s pretty simple without going too much in depth Sidious was already mad he was defeated by Obi was a padawan at the time after training him for basically his entire life. He himself said he was also replaced by Count Dooku no longer needing the former sith. His dream or prized pupil with Maul backing it up was really Anakin however Sidious no longer needed him afterwards as he basically was humiliated by maul’s loss
Sidious could’ve just killed darth maul on mandalore and kept savage alive as an ally as technically he’d still be following the rule of 2 as savage isn’t a darth hence not a sith and if you say that darth maul was much stronger and sidious would have no need for savage remember that time were he took out a Jedi and sith at the same exact time only using the force and took down a whole army of clones where the council members couldn’t even take down a few weaker storm troopers savage is very skilled and underrated in my opinion
Because He Would Just Betray Me In The End.
Plus Anakin Was Far More Powerful
true but maul has more experience plus his hatred makes him a beast so....
@@gorrillazilla1207 his hatred did not do a Damn Thing against me.
@@emperor_palpatine427 your over confidence is your weakness
@@lorehunter158 Your faith in your friends is yours
Emperor_Palpatine what a legend
Also Maul could kill Dooku if he wanted in Son of Dathomir, but he didn't since he knew Dooku was just a placeholder, and Anakin was the real apprentice.
Maul could not beat Dooku one on one especially not with force powers the writers said that revived Maul was not in Vaders tier of power nor Dookus tier either and a weakened Dooku who aided Sidious beat a prime Maul that aided Talzin in a force battle and Dooku And Sidious won
Dooku was also holding the Separtices together. Without him the CIS would fall apart, abruptly ending the Cline Wars.
But when maul says «all I did was to come back to you», was it true? Did he wanted to come back at palpatine's side during the clone wars?
Without Lord Plaguies looming over Palpatine anymore he probably expected Palpatine to accept him and other dark siders to his beckoning call. Palpatine could easily started a secret new Sith Academy with the amount of skilled dark siders he had in TCW (Legends). If he wasn't so scared of being usurped by weaklings then he could've had a standing army of (not overly powerful) Sith Warriors and Assassins by the time The Death Star was completed. The Rebellion would have never had a chance against The Empire and an army of specialized Sith units stationed across the galaxy...
No. He hated Palpatine for replacing him and wanted control of the Galaxy for himself
BlackShogun 27 they actually sort of tried that already remember the inquisitors
No. Maul was just too smart to openly antagonize him, and believed that if there was a chance at a peacful reconcilliation between the two, he should take it before he has to fight Sidious. It didnt pan out, but I think his idea when he came face to face with sidious (which was not something he wanted at the time) really was that he would join up with palpatine and wait for the right moment to strike
Because maul is way to cool
These are the questions I like answered
Sideous doesn't have allies. He has tools and enemies. Maul is a dangerous tool that has served its purpose; so he needs to be disposed of before he becomes a threat.
Is it me or does he sound like he’s saying one long sentence
I'm actually confused, how would Maul be the key to starting the Clone Wars? He was an assassin, not a political figure like Dookoo. Count Dookoo was known as a former Jedi and was very well respected, this makes sense for people to side with him and the Separatists to justify the war and keep it going as long as Sidious wanted. But Maul doesn't have that same PR, am I missing something?
Maul is a warrior, Jedi killer, assassin like Vader; they are not leaders of nations by nature. That's why Maul had Almec as his puppet minister.
Did you see Clone Wars? Maul is far superior than Dooku in every single way possible, Dooku may be more powerful, but Maul is much more valuable.
@@sorjonen8358 I have, and like i said, he's still a warrior by nature. Sure, he was clever in putting the puppet minister in charge of Mandalore, but if he had survived Ep1 he wouldn't have been as effective in TCW as Dookoo, since Dookoo was already well respected among the galaxy.
Leijona Oneiroi Not after he became a crippled embarrassing failure
insert name here Please to be fair, he only used almec because he was still trying to keep his presence unknown. he knew that the people of mandalore wouldnt listen to him, but they would listen to almec. in that sense, it does show he could potentially play a part similar to dooku’s
@@static_ender5378 true, but Almec was already a politician, Maul just used that to his advantage. Dooku was a politician and rallied so many systems to the Separatist cause. TCW shows that many people respected him. But I do agree that Maul could do a similar thing with TCW now that you mention it
The Rule od Two could be described as the Rule of Three in fact.
One Master, One Apprentice to crave the Master's power, but in order to not be alone when he reaches Power, he needs to already have an apprentice in store.
One Master, One Apprentice to crave the power with his secret apprentice and when the secret apprentice is ready, the Apprentice takes the throne from the Master.
It could also be expanded into the Rule of Four.
One Master, his Apprentice, the secret apprentice and the potential secret replacement for the failing apprentice.
In short, the so called retcon of the Rule od Two by Disney isn't really a retcon after all, just a realisation of what already was in canon: Power struggles and insurance of legacy of the Sith.
This video raised a question for me: If Vader needing a suit which pushed him a step backwards in fulfilling his true capabilities as a Sith, why did Palpatine make his suit so that it limits some of his abilities?
Basically so that vadar would never become strong enough to kill him and take his place as the sith master and take on his own appreciate
To control him. But it worked out too well, in a way, and that was upsetting to Sidious. However, Sidious was trying to replace him, only that the apprentices would die in training or be killed by Vader. So they were in an awkward situation. A stalemate.
@@cristiansaucedo4707 so then why would Sidious be disappointed in having to put him in the suit? He would've at least made the suit more compatible for Vader to perform force abilities in. My guess is just that Sidious saw an opportunity to prevent his demise and had a change of heart. And so went from wanting the most powerful apprentice to having one that would never be powerful enough to beat him.
@@Xiprus724 No. He wanted to control him, because it would stop Vader from killing him but the fact that it was so easily done was a sign of how weakened Vader was compared to Anakin. There was no change of heart. It was quite cold of Sidious, I assure you.
Because Vader would have been stronger than Sidious
I've got a question...
If Sidious was such a xenophobic speciesist who viewed humans as the rightful masters of power in the galaxy, why did he select a Zabrak (Maul) as his apprentice?
He’s also a pragmatist, he wouldn’t let his views get in the way of a great opportunity, also Zabracks are very similar to humans anyway
I have to agree, it would be nice to see sidious take on maul as an ally or even an apprentice although we could say that during Rebels when one of the inquisitors was searching for maul on malachor during rebels but we never got to find out why or who ordered the inquisitor to search for Maul so there’s a possibility but I still prefer the rule of two by darth bane.
Sidious said it himself:
Maul, at the time Darth Maul, was not like an Apprentice looking to take back his place. He was acting like a Sith Master. He formed a power base, acquired an apprentice and was quickly becoming a force to be reckoned with in the Galaxy. Maul had become a rival for the title of Sith Master.
And before people start saying "Since when did Sidious care about the Rule of Two? He broke it all the time!" That couldn't be further from the truth. The first novel of the Bane Trilogy shows Bane's thoughts on Acolytes (ch23) "Minions and servants could be drawn into the service of the dark side by the temptation of power. They could be given small tastes of what it offered, as an owner might sure morsels from the table with his faithful curs. In the end, however, there could only be one true Sith Master. And to serve this Master, there could only be one true apprentice." This means that you can have servants of darkness with very limited knowledge of the Dark Side (like the inquisitors or Assassins like Ventress and Savage[briefly]), but in the end there could only be one true successor to all of the knowledge and power, that being the Sith Apprentice.
Problem was Maul wasn't given limited training, he was groomed.for years to be a successor and he was using those tools to build his own empire under the notice of Sidious. When he accumulated too much power, Sidious could no longer ignore his rival.
Would Tarkin be able to Out-Scheme Thrawn?
Hell no.