Pistol Caliber Carbines Are Useless
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2023
- Today we discuss if the PCC is useful in 2023 for wartime use and home defense. We run several drills to test the effectiveness of the platform. We use a shadow systems mr920, Glock 19x, and a KUSA KP9 as the test subjects. Let me know if you would use a Pcc for real world application.
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/TrenchGrenade...
Discord:
/ discord
Instagram:
Trenchgrenade
Josh_jwill
Our department switched from carbines back to MP5. Because the AR-15 sound, flash, and concussion was too much for indoor work. Plus many indoor ranges don’t allow rifle cartridges and the smaller form factor makes vehicular work way easier.
This is the exception not the rule. Rifle will win the day. They should’ve thought of a little thing called suppressors
@@trench_grenade We had suppressors, it still sucked. Plus th energy from short barrel AR's no longer have the hydrostatic shock as longer rifles. Lastly, transitions were slower. We are not the only department to dig out the MP5’s again
@@scotopicvision Even a 7 inch barrelled 5.56 with fmj will perform better than any 9mm from any barrel. And it'll go through kevlar like it's not there. You could also drop the rounds in at 200-300 yards with the same gun you'd clear tight spaces with. Hard to deny the utility of a short barreled rifle. The trade off is that they're usually really loud unless you want silencers and sub sonic rounds like .300 blackout that go right back to pistol power to get low enough velocity.
Dude not going to lie your department sounds weak sauce, can't handle the noise and concusion inside a shoot house or vehicle, I have had dudes shooting saws inside humvees in summer time Afghanistan with a mk or 50 going ham on top and everyone was fine inside the cab. Sounds like a training issue to me.
@@rangerminiaturesandgaming3647 It's different when Military's ROE is to suppress fire and shoot at anything moving. For LE you need to be able to communicate and if you're not able to see/hear what the suspect and/or victims are saying or doing making that mistake will cost you everything (especially today).
Him: the bullet will dissipate when it hits walls.
GT: posts drywall penetration test video.
Things happen man. It’s a good video from gt
Fucking fudd boomer myths destroyed lmao
PCC Pros:
- You can shoot USPSA with a PCC. You can't with a 5.56.
- You can shoot in pretty much every indoor range with a PCC. This is most often not the case with 5.56 ARs.
- new 9mm is ~60% of the cost of new 5.56/2.23
- 9mm is much easier, cheaper, and faster to reload than 5.56
- delayed blowback and gas operated PCCs have less recoil than 5.56 rifles
- You can still hit targets out to 150+ yards with relative ease with a PCC. This is not true with a handgun for the vast majority of shooters.
- PCCs are much quieter and less concussive than 5.56 rifles
- subsonic 9mm 147gn JHPs retain the vast majority of the terminal ballistic efficacy of supersonic loads, so you can be whisper quiet with a can and still have adequate lethality without having to resort to .300BO.
- its significantly easier to make rapid successive hits at any distance with a PCC than with a handgun. This is particularly true for newer shooters.
- most production PCCs have solid mechanical accuracy (~5 MOA)
- PCCs generally have superior terminal ballistics to handguns
- PCC barrels last 100k+ rounds, whereas .223 barrels tend to get shot out in a few thousand
- PCCs generally have better overall parts longevity and ease of maintenance than 5.56 rifles
PCC Neutrals:
- straight blowback PCCs have similar or greater recoil than 5.56 rifles which is nice for training purposes
- less overpenetration / "barrier blindness". This is an extremely important consideration for home defense, particularly for those living in apartments or condominiums.
- PCCs have a longer footprint than handguns, so they retain the same handling drawbacks that conventional ARs have in tight spaces.
PCC Cons:
- 9mm drops like a stone past ~130 yards. I've made hits with 9mm at as far as 500 yards, but it's basically like throwing rocks. poor external ballistics compared to 5.56.
- poor terminal ballistics compared to 5.56
My conclusion: PCCs probably don't make any sense for wartime use in light of the alternative of modern SBRs. There's maybe a little bit more utility in an "SHTF" (lol) context, but its utility is still rather dubious. However, in a home defense context they begin to make a lot of sense. If you live on a large rural property, it probably makes more sense to use a conventional AR. However, in urban/suburban housing, PCCs provide significantly more capability than handguns without much of the tremendous risk for collateral damage that intermediate rifle cartridges have. Also, it is much less expensive to shoot a PCC enough to become extremely proficient with that weapon than it is a conventional AR.
Yeah i swear sometimes gun owners forget that doors can’t really stop anything past a 9mm exiting a fleshy object, and it would be fucking embarrassing if you kill your neighbour while trying to defend yourself from some F-tier thief.
Why do people still perpetuate the claim that 9mm has less over penetration than a 5.56? Any research I've done has suggested they are roughly equal through interior walls.
@@hardlylivin6602😂
@@bill4639 You need to give me a little more than that.
PCCs definitely beat ARs as an all-purpose rifle for prepper-minded outdoorsmen in the east.
- If you spend the brunt of your time in forested environments then there is no such thing as long range engagements, it's not physically possible due to tree cover. 100 yards is maximum visibility as a rule, usually less especially in summer.
- If you're travelling on foot you need to keep your load as light as possible. A PCC cuts your ammo weight in half by eliminating a whole caliber you need to maintain a supply of.
- If you're also depending on your rifle to obtain food, a PCC is better because it will be less destructive on small game and have a better trajectory for engaging small targets at close range, while still being adequate for deer.
- PCCs are extremely quiet, even without suppressors, due to the low powder volume and pressure. They don't give your presence away to people in the distance. You can shoot them without earplugs in an emergency and it won't cause serious harm. They can become "Hollywood quiet" with suppressors. They're effective at subsonic velocities due to bullet frontal area.
- PCC uses the same mags you are already carrying. You don't need to clutter your body and gear with extra mags and hamper your mobility.
- 9mm is the cheapest centefire ammunition you can buy. Training and stockpiling becomes more affordable.
- PCCs frequently have takedown designs, adding a degree of concealability and making transportation easier.
- PCCs use blowback designs, and are generally very durable and reliable, as well as easy to disassemble and clean and maintain.
- There are 9mm bullets and ammunition that can easily defeat 3A armor.
You just sold me on it. Outside of warfare, a PCC seems like such a no brainer
Excellent tacticool advice, especially for elderly widows who are constantly getting home invaded by 5-6 guys in body armor.
My 88 year old mom loves her night vision rig and always sleeps in camo battle clothes, just in case.
You won't catch her running no pussy pc junk.
camo battle clothes...?
We get it, you are a casual. Let us all know when you've upgraded to enthusiast level and know wtf you're talking about.
@@yoloactual6975
Ah yes, the operators club
My 67 year old granny prefers her trusty P90 with a tactical 500 round magazine to pump baddies full of 5.7.
@@gamingrex2930
Nice!
My mom sleeps with both eyes open because only casuals close one eye.
We should get these badass blue haired operators together for some cqb drills.
So, there is this audio book on RUclips that is about a guy that lived in Argentina when the economy collapsed. From his experience, he said the most used and highly sought after weapons were pistols and SMGs/PCCs. He made the point that, if you are walking around town with a rifle and armor, your most likely going to get shot by someone for your stuff. He said that Clint’s old saying ,”The only reason to have a pistol is to fight to your rifle.” Is complete bullshit because you don’t have a rifle to fight to when your getting mugged. Most self defense situations in hard times are going to be outside your home, meaning you don’t have a rifle to fight to, unless you have one in your vehicle, if you have enough gas to drive said vehicle anywhere. Even if you did have a rifle to fight to, by the time you get to it, you are out of danger, because YOU GOT TO YOUR CAR. Also, if you think having a folding rifle in a backpack is viable, ask yourself this, do you really think the people that want to hurt you are going to make themselves known before they hurt you? Most violent altercations happen within 30 yards, and your “enemy” isn’t wearing camo or a hijab. Needless to say, PCCs are useless to soldiers but invaluable to civvies.
Do you have a link to the book? That basically sums up what I've been saying for years under all these stupid "tactical civilian" videos. Rifles of any kind are of extremely limited usefulness to ordinary people EVEN in a SHTF/WROL situation. The idea of stomping around visibly armed and kitted up when people are scared and desperate and power vacuums are being filled by gangs and militias and international peacekeepers who never heard of the second amendment is ludicrous in the extreme. Handguns are the most important weapons, and folding/takedown PCCs that take the same ammunition and magazines as your handguns could be useful for foraging in the woods with relative discretion (and without blowing small game to smithereens) and defending yourself adequately in these low-visibility environments and at your camp, all while keeping your overall system as light and compact as possible so that you can move efficiently when vehicular transportation is no longer possible and when any area can become a danger zone with little warning. I like the sound of a couple Glocks, a couple takedown PCCs, and a couple bulk cases of 115 FMJ in a toolbox on a bicycle trailer loadout or a collapsible deer cart. In forested country I don't think an AR or AK has any advantage over a 9mm PCC other than not needing special bullets to defeat light armor anyway.
You could probably get away with mag dumping 9mm inside with no hearing protection, but 5.56 could literally shatter your eardrums.
Yes
I was Infantry too so I see where you're coming from. In a SHTF or Infantry scenario I would obviously choose a rifle over a PCC for the sole reason that I will likely need to shoot at targets hundreds of yards away. That being said I dont think a SHTF is likely to happen and I'm no longer infantry. But there's still plenty of reasons why one can choose PCC for home defense.
1. Theyre much quieter than a rifle. Whether they're both unsuppressed (for states that dont allow suppressor use) or suppressed, the PCC is just quieter and less likely to give your or family members permanent hearing damage.
2. Lower flash and concussion blast. Makes it much easier to handle especially in small rooms or inside of a vehicle. Same goes for family.
3. Smaller size. They can be much smaller than any AR since they don't need a buffer tube, and their barrel length can be as short as 4 inches.
4. Lighter. They are usually lighter than your standard AR. Makes it easier to maneuver and carry around (which I do on my land).
5. Cheaper ammo. That means more training, more range time, and working on fundamentals that transfer over to rifles.
6. Depending on the PCC it can have much less recoil than an AR15. Roller Delayed, Radial Delayed, the MPX's gas system for 9mm... All those recoil way less than any 5.56. Meaning that its easier to control shots on target.
7. Cross platform magazine compatibility. Meaning the mags work with my ShadowSystems or Glock
8. Same ammo pool between my competition and CCW gun. This is extremely practical.
9. A 9mm properly zeroed will have a 2" +/- trajectory out to 100 yards. 200 yards is still easily doable, and if you're really good with your hold overs 300 is possible though not ideal obviously.
We can sit here and discuss hypotheticals all day but here's the facts. Everyone and their grandma now has plate armor that can easily stop 5.56 rounds. So a rifle won't be much good against modern body armor either. Home Intruders don't even typically wear any kind of body armor to begin with, and at home defense distances you should be aiming for the t-zone anyways.
One thing I learned as an infantryman (and many Iraq war vets can attest to this as well, including Delta Operator John McPhee) is that the only surefire way of stopping a threat is through a CNS hit. People have been shot with 50 cals in the chest and continued to fight for quite a a while until they bled out. It's either a brain/spine shot or nothing. And no offense gents, but there's people competing in USPSA who are B class shooters who would run circles around you guys. Obviously having been infantry myself I know competition shooting is not the same thing as what an infantryman is likely to experiece, but in these close range scenarios you used in the video... a comp shooter would have smoked your times and accuracy.
PCC isn't for wartime. It's for self-defense in your home in a suburban environment. A longer barrel means easier target acquisition and 9mm won't go through multiple walls into your neighbor's home.
The best gun is the gun you have on you when SHTF.
Exactly. I use a CZ Scorpion 3+ as my backpack loadout gun. Light weight, compact, 35 round magazines, reliable etc.. this is what I can take around with me. I’ve got ARs and AKs but I can’t lug all that gear around on a daily basis. The only rifle weapons that come close to what I need would be a Krink. Until reliable quality Krinks in 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 is available it’s 9mm for me.
CZ scorpion bro got the molla molla cha-ching. 😅
@@dynomitejec oh it’s a whole package in a backpack with a bunch of other goodies. I can run, climb, sustain, and lot of mags, chest rig, 300 round 9mm battle packs of ammo, etc.. all part of my EMP loadout.
@@anonymoussurname damn I'm slacking, I don't even have a real loadout, my edc is a smith & wesson a flashlight and a first aid kit... that's it. Stay as prepared as you can out there, hopefully better than i am. And I've just gotta ask, do you have the kitchen sink in there too? I'm kidding.
@@dynomitejec EMP Rapid Deployment/ Survival Support:
1) Camelbak HAWG - water bladder full.
2) CZ Scorpion 3+ 7.8 Inch Barrel with SBTEVO-G2 brace. Purposely kept in pistol configuration.
3) 11 35 round magazines(loaded - 385 rounds total) + 300 rounds of 9mm in battle pack.
4) Battle Belt - FirstAid kit, KABAR KNIFE, and drop leg holster for Glock 17 with 6 magazines loaded
5) Cans of sardines and Datrex food rations.
6) Compass, local area physical map, grappling hook and rope with ascenders, local area, ear protection plugs and earmuffs, goggles, gloves, balaclava, flares and/or flare gun, wire cutters for fences, and binoculars.
7) Baby wipes, EPI pen, flosser/picks, mouth wash, hand sanitizer, alcohol swabs, nail clipper, ibuprofen.
Remember this is a get home bag for being stranded anywhere from 20 to 80 miles from home and an EMP has knocked out anything electronic from cell phone infrastructure, to cars, power lines and power grids, to anything else electrical. I’m also looking to buy my first suppressor. I can run move jump get down hide with this loadout. I’m also factoring in going home may not be an option. I want some other items but they’re a little harder to get and everything must show true value.
The edge case shouldn't become the rule. A well trained individual with a PCC is better than a person who doesn't train with any rifle for a defensive situation. The best gun is always the one you're holding at the moment you need it.
10mm exists and even +P+ 9mm aimed well will definitely kill you.
The closer the grouping the more likely it's fatal. More damage to that part of the body.
Who’s coming in your house with body armor besides cops
Exactly
chinese
"we're not wearing armor because it's hot"
Nobody wears armor, and if they are, it's 3A.
Realistically as a private citizen your more likely to benefit from the 9mm pcc and I will explain why. Your main point for the rifle is its stopping power and in particular its ability to penetrate armor. Now idk if there are any compelling statistics out there but id guess the actual recordable instances where a normal citizen was in a gunfight with a criminal who was wearing body armor is extremely low. So low in fact that it is a mute point when waging the benefits of 9mm. First of all its at least 1/2 the price per round so you can practice 2x as much and that leads to proficiency, skill, and muscle memory which is probably the most important x factor in whether you live in a gun fight or not as a private citizen. There is also the benefit of less noise and less muzzle flash without having to go through the trouble of getting a supressor. It also penetrates less so its a better home defense choice for people who live with a lot of other people behind every wall. I agree a rifle makes the most sense for military uses in general but i think trying to apply those scenarios to private citizens is not a fair comparison.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
There are 9mm bullets that can defeat 3A armor even at handgun velocities and are widely available and that's really the only thing a civilian might encounter. The terminal performance argument only applies to the military who is restricted to using FMJ. 9mm hollow points at +p velocities from a carbine length barrel can duplicate 357 performance and meet the point of diminishing returns for terminal performance on human targets at realistic combat range.
Bro.. if 5 people with lvl 4 body armour are breaking into your house in the middle of the night with NVGs... I think you might be one of the baddies.
When you order a paperback copy of the bill of rights...😂😂😂
Speak for yourself dude. I love my KP-9. Gotta love how these people pretend like anyone is actually concerned about the marginal lethality of these different weapons in a home defense situation. If you say that you need to be prepared for a burglar wearing body armor, you’re larping too hard.
Comparing a 9mm PCC to a 5.56/7.62x39 battle rifle is like comparing a motorcycle to a truck then saying motorcycles are useless cause they can’t haul loads. They’re two different classes of firearms for two different uses.
5.56 isn’t a battle rifle
@@trench_grenade Well then if you’re comparing a 9mm pcc to a 7.62x39/51 battle rifle that’s an even worse comparison. A PCC wouldn’t be nearly as effective on a battlefield yes but that isn’t what they’re designed to do. I enjoy your content but the comparison then calling 9mm pccs useless is ignorant to their incredibly effective track record for their created purpose.
The problem is, I just don’t see a situation where a pcc such as the AK-v in this video is superior in a fight to a similarly sized rifle, like an actual krinkov for example.
A rifle caliber such as 5.56 or 300blk with do everything you need and more.
Post in the comments if you would trust a PCC with your life.
Sbr gang victory
Depending on the PCC, and if I could NOT legally own a SBR or SBS... yes
But FL is awesome, so 590-A1 SBS for me.
300aac usually will be ~same weight and size. Rattler is almost the exact dimensions and weight to MPX, but 300aac subs have almost no recoil while most pcc are pretty snappy.
Bullpups like X95 SBR have 13'' 5.56 power in 22'' oal. You can load up for 30, 30+30, 60, 40+40 rds and it won't be front heavy at all.
Benelli M4 or 1301 LTT sure can take care of a few in a very very messy way.
Heck, if over-pen is not a consideration, take Tavor7 w/ 25rds of 308. It isn't really longer than pcc when you're using it but that's 16'' of 308! You can keep the muzzle forward when opening doors.
All of the above are all more powerful than 9mm or 45acp. Therefore I really don't see pcc being the best for almost any situation. Unless ammo commonality/availability is a hard requirement.
If I could get my hands on an MP5/10 fuck yeah I would.
I actually do trust my Sub 2000 with my life. It’s a tack driver and never had a malfunction. It’s perfect for my particular house, but when I move, I’ll likely use a different long gun. It’s always good to have options. To me where PCCs really shine is suppressed in .45acp
A bit of a fudd take, PCCs are for sure a bit niche, but having a niche means they have a use.
Being smaller, lighter, and softer recoiling than a rifle and still being faster and more accurate than a handgun is a huge boon in a home defense situation.
And I feel like your take on armor is a bit ridiculous.
In a home defense situation you will probably not have time to put on armor yourself, and if a home invader is wearing armor he is probably wearing level 4. Expecting to tag homeboy multiple times in the same spot before he can tag you once is not practical.
I have a Pcc next to me right now for home defense
@@trench_grenade I take my keltec sub2000 everywhere no reassembly required
That's not a very good analogy. If there is five guys at your door wearing body armor and helmets then they're probably police and you're going to go to jail anyway
What matters the most in marksmenship. Choose the platform that u are the most accurate with.
5 dudes kick down my door, its unlikely im wearing ear pro. You wont catch me dead shooting a 10.5" barrel AR indoors with no ear pro. its gonna suck regardless but im not gonna bet on the concussion having a worse effect on the attackers than it does me. KP9 all day. the KP9 is also just better suited for tight spaces and is easier to clear malfunctions, if it even has one, in tight spaces as well. short barrels on 5.56 are also a waste of 5.56. the muzzle energy out of a short barrel AR isnt worth having a short barrel AR. The round is too light to have so called "stopping power" and the round is still too fast to properly expand on flesh targets, the most likely target in a home invasion. 9mm, 10mm and 45mm are slow heavy rounds that expand very well against flesh and do a great job at not overpenetrating in shooting scenarios.
@Practical Absolutes for 50 cents a round? My major gripe
Rifles better but I'm pretty sure the tompson smg put some work in during WWII
Just out of curiosity, no disrespect. What are your credentials? Have you ever been in an active combat situation? Shootouts? Have you actually used a rifle and PCC in a life or death situation?
Nigga. You dont need to, its science.
@@Austrveg Really? Where do. you see anything being tested here? More like "muh syunz".
@@telesniper2 Its ballistics and common sense, 9mm is useless past a very short distance
12:23 " Why Do I keep missing.......?" Because you're shooting cold with an iron-sighted Glock at 'distance' while moving. Happens to the best of us.
Happens
Economics are another factor. Rifle calibers are getting cheaper again but 9mm is usually dirt cheap compared to 5.56.
The folding PCCs also can be very compact and light, the buffer tube on an AR really limits how short you can make it unless you go through the trouble of installing a folding buffer tube. So a survival kit gun that's way better than a .22 is a possible use. Plus it can use the same mags as your carry handgun you probably already have.
The extended barrel of a PCC can also increase the burn time of gun powder giving you more power and velocity from the same ammo you're running in your handgun. Iirc 9mm from a 16" barrel generates similar energy to a .357 magnum depending on the load. I once found a 135 grain .40 S&W Cor-bon load Ballistics By The Inch tested from a 16" barrel that gained so much velocity that it was over 800 foot pounds, that's definitely an outlier though. But since the old west people have been using PCCs to get power, range and accuracy gains from their handgun ammo. It was a cost saving and weight saving measure back then too. I once looked at an old catalog off ammo from the 1880's and calculated the price of .45 LC for inflation today, it was $1 or $2 per round, weird how it's about the same today.
You also have to be selective about ammo with 5.56, especially if it's a short 10" or 12" barrel. Sometimes you'll go from 1,100 foot pounds of energy per round to as low as 700 foot pounds per round due to velocity loss. Some rounds like a 77 grain OTM Sierra match king can flip and frag at those low velocities, helping use every bit of that lower amount of energy to disable an assailant. I'm pretty sure the reason a 77 grain SMK works well at low velocities is because they're intended for much longer range engagements than 55 or 62 grain FMJ and at a distance you'll lose a lot of velocity and need good terminal performance to make up for that, which incidentally works great for SBRs too.
Save money and get 5.56 honestly. It could save your life. Yes more velocity with longer barrel but not worth it compared to rifle
@Phillip Smith Yeah I'm just putting out idea of why someone would go with a PCC or add one to what they already have. It's hard to find a rifle as compact and light as a sub2000 or FPC.
My first choices for home defense are a .40 S&W pistol with some 155 grain underwood hollow points that are around 560 foot-pounds of energy from a 5" barrel, a shotgun loaded with the appropriate shot, and sometimes an AR depending on where I'm living.
I also have a 9mm conversion kit and mags because that's widely available and affordable. And I like having a tiny .38 special revolver as a backup, not really powerful but they're really hard to mess up in any way.
Guy in NASA (not a space agency) shirt thinks PCCs are useless... I'm 10 seconds in and I've seen and heard enough! LOL
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.
Good video but ill say this guy's. Caliber to an extent really doesn't matter. It's really about shot placement.
A 9mm carbine SUPPRESSED is one of the most cost effective ways of getting a very, very quiet weapon system.
I have a 4” suppressed 9mm AR and I have a suppressed 7.5 300 blackout. I go to the 9mm w/ 147 grains WAY more simply due to cost. Engagements where you don’t want to draw attention are an excellent place where 9mm carbines are a solid option.
I’d choose .22WM for a rifle caliber that’s quite, but then that’s rim fire
Need that armor piercing 😂 what enemies you got? Ill take more ammo every time. Mans talking about 4-5 .556 rounds in a home defense situation. 9mm rifle is also super fun and easy and cheap to get and play with so you’ll probably have more training with it.
Huh? You don’t regularly have 4-5 armed guys with (specifically) level 2/3 body armor (since a mk18 is going to do not sheeit to level 4 or even 3+) raiding your home on a regular basis? Must not be important enough. All my homies have 16-20 armored goons raid their home on a nearly weekly basis.
Yeah realistically no one has John-Wick-grade hit squads after them.
School shooters sometimes do got their loadouts.
@@alexlevinson8629 I was killed during cartel raids twice last week alone.
To answer your question on the 4-5 people kicking in my door scenario:
You see, I am lucky. I live in California and I don’t have to worry about Caliber because I am already fucked in the ratio game. While they’ll be coming with their standard compacity mags, I’ll have my life-saving and think-of-the-children-no-one-needs-30-rounds 10 round neutered magazines. But yes sir, maybe my Sub2000 is not the best idea.
“Rifles are always better”…..Clint Smith
Probs
With the correct rounds ofc
Completely useless against that dudes arms! 😄
I heard your spill, read through comments. The drills you guys are doing had nothing much to do with subject. I have shot some AR's inside buildings. It is pretty ruff even with a can. I choose a braced Glock 17 with Red Dot. With Underwood 147 +p+. No can just a linear brake. You choose what you like.
I feel like you guys are thinking of this as a “you only have one gun” situation like why can’t I buy a pic for one purpose and a full size rifle for a different purpose.
Who is kicking in your door with body armor?
Cartels, after you steal their fentanyl money.
Cops. Is this guy running from the law?
Blue line thugs
😂😂😂
Ya no shit, keep your opinion to yourself
Up next: Why apples suck and oranges rule
Useless? No, a gun is a gun.
Obsolete? Pretty much.
Essentially useless
@@trench_grenade useless, negative obsolete correct.
USMC made do with 20" M16s in Fallujah. Granted they had little choice in the matter, but still something to consider.
Several 9mm bullets like Fort Scott TUI and Lehigh Xtreme defense with small metplat area and high impact velocity potential have been proven effective against common body armor even at handgun velocities, and even in standard pressure loadings. +P from a carbine length barrel will probably take care of anything up to level 4 at 100 yards. Anyone huffing and puffing around in heavy armor in my nick of the woods is already going to be in sorry shape before we even meet.
I'm sorry to inform you but 5.56 isn't going through armor. NOT out of a mk18. And who's using soft armor? Cause I know for a fact it's not going through lvl 3 plates. and DEFINITELY not lvl 4 plates. So where are you getting your info from? Respectfully.
To go through Body Armor you need at least 3k vel. To get that you need a 20in barrel, specifically with Green Tips. M855A1's however can go through with a 16''. IF shot out of a 20'' it's at 3407 velo so it's going to do a lot of damage.
IF PCC's were so bad, why do Spec ops units like them? Why do other countries use them? IF they were so useless then why are Pistols even around? You made a claim about them having body armor and helmets? Yes you'd be correct 9mm isn't going through even soft armor. BUT a few things I need to speak on. One it's going to hurt like hell getting hit, if shot in the chest it's breaking your ribs so you'll feel it for sure. Secondly, Helmets aren't Bulletproof. They're worn specifically to just protect your head. Think of it as a "Bump cap". Stops you from splitting your melon on things. Third, IF you're using this for Home Defense, why are you aiming for the chest? Everyone should know if you're using the donut of death you're aiming with the line at the bottom of the circle where the 7 yrd marker goes. IF they don't know that idk why they're even using a Eotech or Holosun.
Yeah, HK MP5 and UMPs are 💩. Who likes them anyway? 😂
I utilize a CZ Scorpion Evo 3 s1 as my primary HD gun. If I have to address a situation outside of the house, I’ll take my 11.5 AR…
I understand that we “plan for the worst”… however… how many people are REALLY breaking into houses wearing body armor? Most home break-ins are committed by low level criminals that aren’t wearing body armor. Say an intruder IS wearing Level IV plates, though… a 5.56 isn’t going to penetrate it anyway 🤷♂️
Plus… shot placement is everything. A 9mm to the CNS is just as effective in stopping a threat as a 5.56 is in the same CNS area. If you can’t effectively execute a CNS shot, that’s a training issue. That’s on YOU…
Then… you have the factor of sound. If you’re running a suppressor, that changes things. But… a .223/5.56… unsuppressed… Inside a home/dwelling? That’ll be the last thing you ever hear because your hearing is now gone. A 9mm will hurt, and could cause SOME hearing damage, but nobody can legitimately argue that 9mm hearing damage is the same, or worse, than a .223/5.56…
Finally… a 9mm is only “inferior” when the topic of PCC’s are discussed. Talk about home defense with a handgun? Oh, that’ll work, though… 🤔 That type of logic is asinine…
Anyway… I’m jumping off the soapbox now 🤷♂️
I use a kp9 or shotgun 1301 most nights lol
But if I know it’s coming I go with nvg and ar
arent most hard plates rifle rated aanyway? Your gonna still have to hit them in the head or the wanker
If you had on hard armor what would you rather get hit with a pistol round or rifle round
Definitely not useless, especially with modern bullets. You can absolutely use one effectively, especially in a building. Rifle calibers in short configurations like that are absolutely deafening. Take a 10.5 inch AR with full power 5.56 into an indoor range and then tell me you wanna let loose with that motherfucker inside your house. If you want your cat, your dog, and your family to have hearing problems then a shorty AR is the right choice, especially if you have a muzzle brake on that shit. If you dont have time to grab ear pro beforehand eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is gonna be all you hear for a good long while.
PCC has its place. I look at it as if you bring your pistol with you for self defense then a PCC is better then your pistol. PCC is good for quick reaction CQB, basically anything indoors or 50 yards and under.
Your day to day life if you encountering a reasonable threat it will be 3 to 7 yards then that would be perfect for your pistol or PCC if you want to carry it.
Again over 3 to 7 yards and under 50 that’s when the PCC shines. But of course a rifle caliber would be efficient and effective. You just have to way the odds and options you willingly to be responsible for.
Now if there’s NO!! Rule and Law, then of course a high power caliber would be the best Choice.
This video only proves training and practice is more than anything. A pistol carbine is fine for HD. Rifle rounds penetrate walls. See Garand Thumb videos for evidence. A 9” barrel is more effective than a pistol barrel. Trucks guns or PDW pistol calibers are great in urban and suburban areas. I would definitely rock a rifle in the country. This debate is useless and furthers no goal other than ego. Train and practice with what you are naturally comfortable with and can afford. An idiot with a 223 is less effective than well tuned user with a 22 long rifle. Accuracy, training, and great muscle memory are what makes the quality HD.
I agree with the points, but…
1. It suppresses better than a rifle round (yes, 300blk does great but see #2) and quiet is just more fun if you have tinnitus.
2. Ammo is cheap = more practice.
3. Can practice at indoor ranges not set up for rifle rounds and outdoor pistol bays that allow movement (when rifle bays are stationary).
4. More stable and accurate than a pistol, especially at 25-150Y (obviously at your distances, the PCC didn’t shine as much).
This is colossally ignorant
Your voice is so muffled I can't hear shit. Wear a mic.
The history of guns that use the same caliber as their pistols is, literally a hundred years (more really) old. Add in the compatibility of a glock pistol with a glock compatible PCC, using the same ammo AND the same magazines... that's a huge winner all around.
A 9mm PCC with a 16 inch barrel is good to a 'few' hundred yards, depending on skill. That's pretty much all anyone's going to need in pretty much any scenario outside of being a sniper in a combat unit and your AR15 isn't going to be any match for a sniper in a combat unit in any world you live in.
I've got many. Extar EP9 (super light weight, indestructible, very accurate to 200 yards with an 1-4 LPVO). S&W FPC (accurate with 1-8 LPVO to 300 yards). Ruger Carbine (Accurate with 1-10 LPVO to 350 yards). Keltec sub 2000 (accurate to 50 yards with iron sites, 100 yards if I really take my time).
I could go on.
I've got AR15's and even a Hellion bullpup (which is very accurate, to 500 yards with a longer range scope, and I have friends that claim 1000 yards with theirs), but, again, are you going to be a sniper in a military unit anytime in your life? Ever? No. No you're not. And this isn't the gun you'd use (556/223). I'll stick with my trusty .308 bolt action if I ever need to shoot something 1000 yards away.
PCC is generally about effective range, round count, and ease of use, all while remaining easily concealable on your person. To get good and most importantly CONSISTENT with a handgun, you need to train diligently, and you still won't out perform a PCC at range. Rifle platforms are simply superior in their ergonomics and ease of use. Making the PCC an easy go to for individuals who don't necessarily need to defeat body armor, but may need lots of easy rounds down range.
That said, in the modern day as of Jul of 2023, the ATF has basically made small PCCs obsolete. Meaning it's probably just easier to run a rifle caliber in pistol format anyway, because you aren't going to have a 3rd point of contact regardless.
As a side note: Polymer ammo defeats pistol rated body armor. So that's something to keep in mind when weighing options if you are looking at a "PCC".
I like PCCs because they are easier to suppress and quieter without the suppressor. Plus 9mm is half the cost of 5.56.
sub300blk > sub9mm
just not in price ig
@@Austrvegand most americans HAVE to factor in price, we can ignore many americans moving from 556 to 9mm but why? 556 can't pen armor anyways
@@shelbyneely1572 green tip 556 can
@@Austrveg m855 cant even pen all lv3 armor lmao lv4 stops it no problem
Stopping power matters when you are dealing with half a dozen methed out tweakers robbing your house, as well when you have a 1600 lb Alaskan brown bear all hopped up on adrenaline and charging at you. If you have to shoot through any barriers then that extra power is gonna do it, but shot placement matters so much. You can mag dump and if you don’t hit the central nervous system then you just pissed off your attacker and waiting for them to drop from blood loss.
True, but what if you let the bear follow you home and you kept it for just such an emergency? 😵💫
Any rifle rated plates are going to stop 556 out of a sbr platform even at the muzzle
More energy
Your whole point on the video was that a sbr will penetrate armor, if dudes are going to clear a house with kit on they’re going to have rifle plates on so you have to be just as accurate with a sbr as you do a pcc
The armor argument is silly. Kevlar is the only thing a short 5.56 will penetrate, and a pcc will still break ribs. I would rather beat someone to death with a frying pan than use an ar-15 indoors.
@@Subtlenimbus exactly, so far the tactics and conversations I’ve seen on this channel will get you killed
Also love all these myths about what calibers do. 9mm will do very well in putting people down especially with that velocity out of a carbine.
I've used SMG's and PCC's in professional work, situational parameters and environment dictate. In a straight up War Zone or SHTF/ WROL situation- SBR/ Rifle, in Urban low-profile Executive Protection work, SMG's/ PCC's have their place.
Home Defense- depends the structure and surroundings, but a Pistol or PCC can do the trick just like a PAR, but of course there's many factors known and unknown that have to take into account. Typical Home Invaders aren't wearing Armor, exigent situations are a different bear where the Rifle is the law.
Conclusion: limited and purpose-driven use at best.
Very limited imo
@@trench_grenade Yes I agree
PCC carbines is the best option for CQB inside drywall’s rooms, which is 95% of US constructions. A barrel with 8,5’ will be much precision then a 4’, right? Plus! A 33 rounds magazine. Do you really think that shooting a 556 or 762 inside your house busting your eardrums and piercing all the way to yours Neighboors is a good idea just because you assuming that the enemies are in great numbers and all using plate carriers?? C’mon… you just showed how better accurate the KP-9 was in comparison with the G-19x. At least in your hands.
What Is worthless is this video and the conclusions based in poor training and not considering the objective of the gun. Otherwise, the HK MP-9 would not be the choice of anti terrorists units around the world for decades. Including Delta.
BTW, This KP-9 is the semi auto version of the Russian Vityas, used by their special units
The Main Element Of Information Missing In The Preliminary Conversation Is This: "Criminals Aren't Going To Continue To Enter A Home Or Business When Shots Are Being Fired Directly At Them During An Invasion Or Robbery Of Any Type"!
I Don't Care If You're Firing A Handgun, PCC, AR-15, AK-47, Shotgun, Etc. The Average Criminal, Soldier, Etc., Will Back Out Of The Situation, Run For Cover And Get Out Of The Line Of Fire ASAP!
In A Fire Fight, No One Wants To Get Shot Whether They're Wearing Body Armor Or Not! Getting Shot Means A Trip To The Hospital And Criminals Don't Want To Get Caught Checking Into The Hospital With Gun Shot Wounds!
The Strategy Is To Defend Your Life And The Lives Of Your Loved One's With Whatever Caliber Of Firearm You Own, And Survive The Encounter Without Being Injured Or Killed!
The Best Firearm/Caliber To Have To Defend Yourself Is The One You Have! Train With It, Become Proficient With It And It Will Save Your Life When A Life Threatening Situation Comes Your Way! 👊
Yeah- it’s not a military objective. I agree, there are very few crews of people that will continue to fight through a situation if they are taking fire. They are far better served by leaving. . . . Sadly, they may come back later when the business is closed or home is unoccupied. Especially, if they think they can get high dollar value items or firearms in said heist.
Also, for “armor” yes, it is being used more in home invasions, but the people your shooting are aren’t soldiers. They will turn tail and run when you fire at them. And if they don’t, we’ll, it’s YOUR house. You know it and they don’t. Take advantage of that. (And as a side note, some 9mm can pen level 3a armor, specifically the solid brass hyper velocity ammo or cast iron core bullets)
Comes down to the work.. they’re just tools
Exactly. Bring the right tool for the job.
I'd have the PCC be an extra tool in the tool shed
But it should be obtained after you get a handgun, rifle, shotgun, precision rifle, rimfire (which you would not use in defense), etc
Additionally PCCs imo really shine if they're short, or with the humble Hipoint carbine, cheap (however most pistol caliber carbines cost around 800, when a PSA AR15 costs around 500)
Bag guns
You basically discredited every navy boarding team that runs the mp5 along with any other breaching teams using the mp5
Literally nobody uses mp5 anymore lol
@@trench_grenadeyou must be smoking cat piss. Several navy seals talk about using the mp5 to this day. Not to mention the U.S. army just adopted the apc9 a comparable 9mm pcc.
@@trench_grenadeI know quite a few people who arent boomer fudds and prefer suppressed mp5s for home defense / indoor work. Once you shoot an mp5 suppressed, or under nods its unparalleled.
@@trench_grenadeI agree that rifles are better than PCCs/SMGs in 99% of situations, but you’re so wrong about this. Some basic research would show you that plenty of police departments and militaries across the world still use the MP5.
Not just the mp5, in europe the cz scorpion and the b&t apc9 is everywhere. There is also a reason why every country with police and military still use smgs and pistol caliber carbines for that exact reason@@braxton1098
PCCs seem like the answer to a non-existent problem. I was hoping you'd introduce the shotgun into the comparison. I think I'd take the SG over the PCC. Great video
More to follow
I think the issue with shotguns is they are not like pccs enough to simply be better in all situations.
Rifles and pccs overlap so much that you can easily say rifle>pcc
Shotguns not so much. There are many situations where I’d much rather have a pcc, due to capacity, rate of fire, reload speed, easy to suppress(no one has a salvo lol) shotguns are niche weapons that do great for specific purposes same as bolt guns but not nearly as flexible as a pcc or rifle imo.
Not as useless as a pistol length AR. You're neutering a rifle caliber when you do that shit, making it so slow and so unstable it actually carries less energy than a pistol round out of a PCC. That's the damn irony of it.
I use a PCC for a vehicle long gun since its better than a pop gun pistol to give me up to 100 yards or better. I would not be shooting beyond 200 yards anyway with it. It is cheaper than an AR or other rifle both in its cost and ammo. I don't care so much if its stolen or impounded since its cheaper than an AR or other rifle. It is reliable and accurate and I do trust it. It uses the same ammo as my pistol. It is useful in this role for me only and this is the purpose I use it for and not really any other. As far as lethality, body armor is useless to its wearer when I head/neck shoot them or gut/groin shoot them. I don't shoot torso center mass where the armor is, I shoot where the armor isn't. I shoot to put a threat down permanently so they are no longer a threat. Good marksmanship under stress is better than capacity every time. If the body armor is level 4 that most front plates are, then a 5.56/.223 is not going through it anyway whether that or a pistol round. I never practice to shoot torso center mass. I always practice small target head/neck shooting.
Vehicle use is good
@@trench_grenade The vehicle is my only use for my PCC and why I got it in the first place. The cost of a rifle versus a cheaper PCC if stolen or impounded was the biggest factor and it needed to give me up to 100 yards or better accurately. I use a rifle for primary otherwise or a shotgun for close range inside a house distances. Pistols are only sidearm secondary or for concealed carry. Pistols are poor at stopping threats compared to long guns.
I have a pcc because 9mm is very common and if i ever had to fight with 9mm i want something that has an upper hand on a pistol
I think the line is blurred because both pcc and rifle can accomplish the same thing which creates a gray area. They both their places no doubt, whatever I'm getting my hands on first is what I'm going with.
It would appear that the PCC lets more people get the hits on target more often (most people don't practice pistol enough to be proficient, looking at you NYPD). The point about penetration Trench made at the beginning is also a double edged sword, not everyone wants to kill their opponent so less lethality as well as less collateral damage due to over penetration goes to the PCC over a rifle. On a side note, it is easier to keep track of your holes on paper by circling them rather than the line technique. Any hole not in the center of a circle is a new hole.
Suggestion: get some brown tape and use that to mark your hits on paper. It's not much slower than using a marker and it makes new hits a lot easier to see when scoring. Tear a piece off about a foot long and stick it to your shirt front or your pants leg so you don't have to carry the whole roll around at the range.
😅 You guys are awesome and raising the bar for all of us on ranges.. thank you for upping our game.
Pressure each other by competing on score.. point numbers by zone. Negative points or time on the clock for any missed shots... Looks like, within 50 yards, a good pistol shooter should be able to maneuver through that course with greater ease than a pistol caliber Carabine.
Keep. Training.
I’d take a PCC over handgun. That’s about it. But rifle or shotgun at any barrel length would be my #1 choice.
Practice loading
Dang. I guess I need to rethink the sub2k in a DMR role.
LOL
ROFL
A 9mm pcc I would trust with only two loads. Fort Scott Munitions TUI 9MM 115gr and less likely Seismic 185gr 9mm Hollow Point. FSM TUI 9MM goes through most soft 3a body armor.
Rock on
@@trench_grenade I am supprised I was expecting disapproval 🫡.
Level 3 a is rated to that calibres from what I know, so the armor would have to be like level2 for it to be able to go through
Pcc, shotgun,pistol and dog for home defense, if plated guys, the dog men come, you got bigger issues to worry about. Lol
I like 5.56 but if a PCC is all ya got, rock it. I do like the performance of .357mag and .45acp through them though. Much better than a pistol.
Doesn’t replace a rifles capabilities
@@trench_grenade Yep. The gel tests prove it too. That temporary wound cavity is nasty when it opens up.
Just having this talk with some buddies the other night. Gonna have to send them to this video. Good stuff
Thanks brother
I feel like this whole video is him trying to convince himself and that other guy is getting paid to stand there and agree
Where’s the money coming from tho?
😂😂😂
The Germans really hated the Thompson 45 ACP!
This is ridiculous.
First, you can’t even understand what dude is saying because his mouth is covered.
Second; I’m regards to his scenario, you’re going to grab the weapon closer to you.
3rd, he’s hiding his identity. Why the glasses and face covering?
Last, he’s wearing BDU’s. It’s 2023 guy. Duh.
Go to sleep
First time on the internet?
Try to copy administrative results
A SMG has its roles in the combat theater!
Special forces teams around the world are throwing away their HK MP5s and UMPs after watching this video.
Am I a joke to you -everybody that's been killed with an MP5
Watch the video
Video game nerds are upset in the comments
@@trench_grenade just going off the clickbait title sugar tits
@@trench_grenade PS I really tried but the shitty audio from the mask and tight shirt guy made it damn near impossible
A 12.5 inch AR pistol is the best of both worlds without losing too much velocity. I have a 11.5 AR pistol and love it, but the 12.5 inch version is the best.
I would prefer a pistol carbine in .40 or .45
10 mm
What do you shoot best ? Misses don’t count for anything
True
different guns have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think anyone chooses a pcc for armor penetrating power or maximum damage. You see lot's of law enforcement around the world run pcc's for raids, etc, since they're usually raiding some civilian criminal not a terrorist compound full of people with body armor. I don't care what someone uses as long as they train with it and are effective. If armor penetration was the #1 factor in choosing a defensive weapon then everyone would be running five sevens instead of 9mm but they aren't. PCC's have great maneuverability for home invasion situations etc, as well as reduced penetration, being generally easier to shoot (way easier than a pistol for your average civ), and having ammo compatibility which makes t hem good as a truck gun to just swap your pistol mag into your pcc for better shooting. There's a different tool for every job and yeah rifle calibers are better than pistol calibers but there are way more factors than the rounds.
also they're quieter and yeah u can put a can on a rifle but then you have ~4 more inches on your barrel and you have to weight the pros and cons with your mission set.
With pcc's being easier to shoot than a pistol without the drawbacks of a rifle: recoil, size and weight, overpenetration, and noise, it makes the gun owner become more effective than with a pistol generally. Of course in a perfect world everyone would be super accurate with pistols and grind the range all the time but most people aren't doing that.
I use a pcc that's a clone of my ar15 so that I can train on a rifle without rifle round prices with similar recoil (9mm) but personally would use 556 for home defense and all the rest since i'm a large guy and the benefits of the pcc don't outweigh the benefits of a rifle for me. People with a family that can't just man handle a rifle or handle the recoil of one as well as not wanting their round to fly through 3 rooms in the house and potentially hit a child or such; they would probably benefit from a pcc for home defense. It all depends but I wouldn't say they're useless I mean why would they be so widely used around the globe.
The lightest pcc round I'd be comfortable with is a 10mm. That being said, with the same recoil, I may as well use something in a rifle caliber.
For me as long as they are still good at killing people, cheaper to shoot/train with than rifle calibers and able to shoot in more ranges than rifle calibers then they absolutely have a place and Im sorry but armor penetration is a redundant argument for 99% of people in 99% of situations. We aren’t in Ukraine so for home/self defense at legally justifiable distances PCC’s are just fine. By all means have a rifle as well for 2A purposes but lets be real as soon as you start firing they are running out your house as fast as possible unless trained professionals are running and op to kill you then you are screwed regardless. Again lets be real.
Idk why this was even up for discussion. If PCCs were on par with rifles or AR pistols we would've been using PCCs and gotten rid of rifle rounds.
You mean like a lot of SF and foreign special ops applications?
The CZ Scorpion and MP5 are widely used in applications and have been fiercely tested in cqb elements. Grossly mitigated recoil, easily suppressed and mitigated flash make them extremely sought after for night and close range ops.
@Shawn M that was 2005, it's 2023 now.
@@TheWeekendShooter308 that 9mm between the eyes would feel the same in 2005 as it would in 2023
@@evanthecameraman do you not comprehend the rarity that you'd use a 9mm in combat in that Era unless you were some secret squirrel?
@Bluejay in 2005 the average engagement distance was 500 or more yards. Do you honestly believe that the AVERAGE soldier was making 5-800yard shots with a dang PCC? And how often do you honestly believe those secret squirrels would use them? Like come on man be realistic. If they were on par or even close to sub par we'd be using them and issuing them to regular infantry. But we don't and that's for a good reason. Come on bud. Seriously.
If you can trust a pistol with your life, then a good pcc shouldn’t be any different. Tighter groups and more capacity with better ergs for a wml doesn’t suck either.
Glock is a last ditch attempt
Jesus TC not everyone can afford to go all out on guns man what a dumb thing to say man plenty of people run pistols as their main home defense this dude has a great point
You host the greatest gun show on RUclips
Thank you
124 grain hollow point at 1450 fps is all the terminal performance I will ever need.
55 grain going 3000 is going to penetrate less meat and walls while causing more damage to said meat
@@Dcm193 that's been debunked, 556 penetrates as many walls as you can put in front of it. Countless videos proving this.
@@nobodyatall7039 uscca did a video on this and it showed both 9mm and 5.56 fmj and defensive loads penetrated all the walls in their test but the 5.56 was starting to fragment meaning it would start to penetrate less . Then if you add a hit into it where a lot of 5.56 wont exit and if it does it is either bits of bullet or mangled . A lot of pistol hollow points fail to expand in meat and in dry wall. Causing a great number of them to act as fmj’s rifles should be in rifle calibers. In regards to your original comment. Plenty of videos of people tanking 9mm,40 and 45 to the chest and still having fight in them . Increasing the velocity of a handgun cartridge wont make it reach the point of disproportional wounds so all of the cons of a rifle and maybe 2 pros of a pistol.
@@Dcm193 wall penetration is irrelevant because both rounds will penetrate multiple walls, neither is safe. Handgun hollow points virtually never overpenetrate human targets, and even when FMJs do they have very little energy left after and are destabilized and can't travel very far. There are videos and accounts of people staying on their feet aggressive after taking multiple hits from every cartridge ever invented, there was even a pilot who survived a 50BMG to the head. 124 grain 9mm hollow point at carbine velocities is more than enough terminal performance, shot placement and number of shots are vastly more important. 5.56 is too loud for indoor defensive use, makes training twice as expensive, and adds an additional caliber you need to maintain a supply of, very little tangible advantage in return for that unless you're talking engagements at over 100 yards.
@@Dcm193 even when hollow points fail to expand (which is rare) they are still better than FMJ because you have a bullet with a flat, sharp shouldered metplat instead of a round nose bullet. They can also tumble viciously because the hollow cavity shifts the point of balance rearward.
9mm will go thru more dry walk than 223 armor piercing is unlikely to be needed but 223 is more damage and less likely to kill ur neighbor so all together better an if anyone complains about sound then 300 aac is more quiet but 223 is best home defense caliber in my opinion
Big Will was also shooting irons, Trench at least had a red dot for the far shots. Good work boys!
Almost to 10k Subs bud, 100k by the end of the year....I'm calling it now!
Hope
So
0:22 "We got big Will here."
William is packing guns bigger than that rifle holy hell.
@@danielkreher7066 You're basically saying "You genocided us with guns"
In reality, those white people killed those black people with guns.
Flintlocks to be exact.
Ill take a 30-30 short barrel lever action with a 170gr flat tip for qcb thank you very much.
Same with my 30-06.
Guy might have body armor stopping my 220gr ELD-Xs, but I'm causing kinetic energy internal bleeding with every shot, can't breathe if the lungs are full of blood.
Shotgun slugs work just as good too, 1oz of lead at over 1200fps don't play no games.
@@linkbond08 slugs are useless
These dudes are just larping. Use whatever you shoot best. If you’re shooting at dudes with helmets and body armor it’s more than likely that you are the criminal. Not them.
The French resistance were criminals.
Can you explain the relevance of this comment please? Are you saying the French resistance was a bunch of larpers as well?
@@caseycarbine9616 everyone’s a larper until they aren’t. Ukrainians who were stalker cosplaying two weeks later are sent to the front line to fight.
fed
Damn that’s a sick name bro. I bet you larp too.
Use whatever you have on hand this easily becomes a tabletop strategy game of fantasy. Its going to go from fighting the guys in sandals to being the guys in sandals. 😂 but I like your content and the helmets they issue you guys look way nicer then what I had. I like to train whether working out or shooting because it reminds me of the good times I had as a young man but I dont miss being at the armory a 4am
Hard life, bad pay, good memories
I don't know if you were every in the military but as an assistant gunner I carried a full length M16.
Just watched a few videos from this guy.
Is this a Air Soft gamer or a serious individual? Very odd
At close range I just cannot see how a 5.56 out of a short barrel is doing better than a pcc. Its a lot of waste on the 5.56 and it has to have less stopping power