I'm preparing for TEOTWAWKI today by carrying around 60 extra pounds of fat on my belly and chest. That way, as I slowly starve to death, I'll be able to carry more and more ammo. It's called Fat to Ammo Conversion.
If only there were some "intermediate" option with the low recoil, cheap ammo, and wide parts availabilty of a carbine, with the capability of engaging at 400 yards... 🤔
the desert sucks. Trust me, I practically live in one. Yeah we do have long ranges out to 1000m and have f class competitions and stuff here, but i'm sure you can find that where you live.
Both are useful. It depends on mission and engagement distance. 308 in a "battle rifle", that is used in a CQB (0-50m) for defense when you get ambushed, but like quite a lot of calibers it's a niche, that's extremely effective.
I had a pcc 9mm ar for a few years and really enjoyed it. So easy to blow through 2-300 rds of 9mm in an afternoon shoot. I realized it wasnt practical after a few out of battery detonations. Blow back design has its flaws. Even still its a fun toy. An AR in 556 just makes way more sense when reliablility and effectiveness out to 300 yards is factored in. The biggest plus to the AR9 was shooting steel at close ranges and shooting fast without worrying about ammo cost. Sold mine and keep a 556 SBR handy at all times. Love the channel trench. Keep up the good work!
@@DoraTheMFDestroya I was only trying to convey my opinion that a 556 SBR (or pistol, etc) is everything an AR9 is and more. They can be built for the same cost or less, have much better terminal ballistics, more effective at farther ranges, and better reliability generally speaking (gas system and locking bolt vs straight blowback). If 556 wasn't an option and I had to pick 9mm or 308 I'm probably taking both and leaving the 308 behind if I had to bug out and leave my truck behind to escape shithole Dallas on foot.
A PCC chambered in 9mm is actually a really practical training tool. I don't own one of those yet, but I will at some point. I have a custom LR-308 to, and if nothing else, the damn thing is just fun as all hell to shoot. Seeing as I live in a desert, probably a good idea to have something that might be able to reach out.
USPSA and IDPA PCC is better training for less cost than trying to go to a bunch of expensive carbine courses. Then stretch a 5.56 as far as you can go for lower volume shooting and marksmanship.
I agree with this 100% I have a keltec sub 2k probably only train with it twice a month, but it's very cost effective and has been completely reliable over probably close to 1000 rounds I have on it
Trench, awsome class. Thank you .22 cal. Bullet placement. Not just the size of the round matters. Again, bullet placement. Train for bullet placement. Surgical placement. Now you can CQB. Close quarters. Remember: the longest law enforcement sniper shot was 75yrds. Upon average, you will be engaging, close quarters. Bullet placement.
I have a Ruger PCC 9 that’s my “get home” rifle. It’s heavy as fuck but it’s a very good shooter. I have a good amount of mags for it +20 round mags not standard capacity g17 mags. And then my get home pistol is my Glock 45 so if I need to share ammo between I can. Obviously I pray it’s never needed but that isn’t going to end well without training. I was at the range today and will be again tomorrow. Picked up a micro dagger and shot 500 through it. Flawless 6 oem Glock 43x mags and 4 oem psa mags.
They are 2 completely different platforms intended for completely different use cases. Personally I have no use for a pcc. They offer nothing a full sized pistol or a shorty ar in 556 can't do.
@@KennethJoines-th4jk For the price of an MP5 you could get a quality AR, that can do what it does better. IE a 300blk where it can have an identical barrel length but better subsonic performance than an mp5sd and supersonic which outranges and is more potent than supersonic 9mm.
I really enjoy my pcc. Loads of fun. Cost to shoot doesn’t even register. But you are exactly right. A 300 blk pdw with 125 bullets. Is a superior platform
I work 70 hours a week for two to three months at a time. I shoot when i get home off the road during that one week off. I can't train anything the way I would like. I have to work like this to pay the bills for my family during this unprecedented time. I have both pcc and battle rifles for different purposes. I bought them when times were better. I enjoy having access to both. I'm not going to sell either because it simply won't matter. When stuff happens, I guess I'll be a loot drop, but I can't do more than i already am to prepare for whatever is coming.
@phillipschmidtke2001 that's the life of all truckers. If you can buy it, a trucker brought it. It can be a tough job at times, but i can listen to books, music, and podcasts all day long, so it has its perks.
@phillipschmidtke2001 True. I do have a lot of tools and my ten years in the Army. I am pretty good with most of my firearms, and I had ten solid years of doing a lot of shooting. Two Iraq deployments as infantry can't be replicated by any training, so I have some unique understanding of asymmetric warfare.
Eugene stoner got it right on so many levels when he invented the ar15. I reload 5.56 for about 30 cents a round. At 3200 fps a 55 grain bullet does a lot of damage out to 300 meters. For those of us fudds who stocked up on reloading supplies for the past 20 years we can afford to train and shoot the larger calibers. Pistol ammo will always be pistol ammo and rifle ammo will always be rifle ammo.
As a kid I remembered the Ruger Camp in 45acp , not to mention all the back to 1870s with the carbine in 45colt ,, i wanted that camp pretty badly , same mags and ammo perfect for truck or go bag
I bought a Smith and Wesson FPC and I am glad I did, have found it more practical to utilize faster than my Battle rifle and AR pistol. In real self defense situations. always be aware of overpenetration is a close quarters engagement, this is why so many love the MP5
Ive been running Colt LE69XX PCC for damn near 20 years . My dad actually owns Colt 633 DOE 9mm . His is the 16" civilian version . I've always been huge PCC fan . I freaking love my Colt LE6991 Pistol . One of the places we shoot 2Gun matches at uses CQB Format so targets are 50Y and in for the most part . Its fun being able to run 9mm PCC in a match . My 6991 does not run certain types of JHP ammo . It will run Hornady XTP and TAP / FTX very well . I only have experience with Colt PCC for long term usage . I have shot quite a few MP5s , and MPXs . I really do like the MPX . JP IMO makes the best PCC for Competition. JP and MPX are the top doggs for sure in Competition.
love my KelTec 9mm carbine it's light and easy to shoot and fun accessory's to put on it. Im' 66 years old and cant handle full size rifles anymore. and the high tek ammo to choose from helps in self defence situations.
A couple of senarios when 308 win is better: 1. Open field combat and trench warfare, like WW2 or Korean War. 2. Winter and Arctic warfare when people wear really thick clothings. 3. Mountain warfare, shooting from edge to edge of the mountain across valley. 4. Assasination, shooting through car doors and glasses. 5. City defense, hold the high ground, shoot through incoming vehicles.
Are we not even going to talk about suppressors??? Federal American Eagle 147gr and Federal 147gr HSTs have the exact same POI and are both subsonic. They both sound like a pellet gun out of my PTR9 with a $600 Surefire Ryder 9.
I shoot 8 - 10 times per year, and attend at least one structured class civ side. I try to run drills that require minimal round counts so that I can add some of the ammo back to my stockpile. I have an M1, and I hunt with a 3006, but I don't stock much ammo for that. I have 2 9mm pccs- beretta cx4 & pmx. So easy to shoot.
Why have a rifle sized pistol when you can have a rifle sized rifle? (5.56/7.62x39) Although the ammo is cheap and it is good for training, I certainly don't see myself going to battle with something that can't even penetrate soft armor. Still agree that it's better than a battle rifle though due to weight/ammo capacity.
AR-10 enthusiast here. Live 45 mins away from the mountains and train recce consistently at least once a month. I reload my own ammunition and have more than 2000 rounds loaded currently with the availability to load up to 5000 realistically. In the 5 years I've owned my very accurate, reliable, $1200 Smith and Wesson M&P10 I would say I've put 3000 rounds downrange. I have experienced no accuracy loss. I have a $600 LVPO 1-8 on my rifle, have my dope card, and can make 1st round hits reliably out to 500 yds. I wholeheartedly agree that for someone who is not training often or not willing to put in time to learn their rifle, dropping $4000 on a Scar is a waste of money. For the average gun owner I would say a battle rifle is impractical. As my favorite Gun Tuber Garand Thumb (You and Risky are tied for second) says: "Make youself the weapon." But ya know most people aren't willing to do that so whatever lol.
If you're not a Chad, older and can't run with the young bucks anymore physically disabled, a PCC is definitely lighter weight ammo and gun, and something you could defend yourself with absolutely. If your main system is going to be a pistol or PCC whatever it is make sure you can carry enough ammo to be effective and that you can handle the weapon you're carrying.
If you take us bandolier, open flap and put velcro on top instead of button, you gonna have ability to carry 3 32 rnd glock mags in each pouch so total 9. You can put velcro inside and put inserts inside. You can put med kit inside. You can carry it as pouch on side or add strap and make chest rig of it. All perfect for pcc
I came up on a very good deal for a PTR 91 recently, just mounted a 1-6 lpvo and it is quite heavy. I will try to put at least 500 rounds down range this year on it, luckily there is a 600 yard range not too far from my house. Its definitely not my first choice for SHTF but its fun to shoot and could add some capability to my group if I learn to utilize it well.
I have a Beretta cx4 and man I love that thing. It runs Beretta 92 mags which is a downside being I run a Glock 19 as my edc. But that being said it is an absolute blast to shoot.
Ive been thinking about getting a 9mm like the one you have as a truck gun... or maybe ill just get myself a nice little blkout honey badger or sig mpx
Both have a place on the field. I don't own a PCC myself but I do recognize the niche that it fills in the personal/home defense and executive protection fields. Trench is correct in the context that he lays out. There is a time and place for either platform.
I cant really use an ar15 type of weapon in ny state. I hunt a lot. Am i better off training with my shotgun? My bolt 30-06 bolt gun. Various lever guns and a sks.
308Win brass is infinitely reloadable. I'm still reloading Federal Gold Medal Match brass originally from ammo I bought in 2008. Weren't you still in high school in 2008??
I own 2 long guns besides a shotgun. Sig AR15 type carbine and a MP5 (semi auto) Spent years shooting the AR platform, but probably shoot the MP5 more now due to it being cheaper, and when I go to range only having to carry 9mm which I also use in my M&P pistol. Availability is also a factor. Thanks for all the great content.
I have 2 AR9 Glock mag dedicated I shot both recently. One is a pistol braced and other is SBR. I shoot the 6 inch plate at 100 about 9 of 10 but 12 inch is 10 of 10
@@timsimmons9995 The 4 points of contact, shoulder, cheek, both hands makes it easier to hold steadier for farther targets 100yards and even farther is very doable if you know what the bullet trajectory is doing.
I run the sm 9m carbine and figured I can keep fighting in minecraft with my glock 17, same mags. I also train with a howa 6.5 for long range and shoot out to 1k yards, train 2x a month on the carbine, 5k rounds on backup💪
Where the PCC shines is in home defense, it is not too loud and is easier to shoot than a handgun. For anything else, a Glock on your belt and an AR is the way to go.
I’m a AR10 and M1A enjoyer myself but I’m not gonna argue with his points here. My AR10 is more setup as a heavy DMR and the M1A is just for fun. But I actually train more with my AR9 than either of my .308 guns. When I lived in AZ, it was fun to take the .308 guns out to 700ish yards but now I’m in MI and only do that a couple times a year. I able to take a deer with the AR10 this fall but even that shot was only 150 yards.
I am currently thinking of building a PCC... I think this video has sold me on it. It was on either a PCC or a 762x39... and I think this video sold me on doing the PCC first.
She's right, I do already have one at home. 5.7 and it's the funnest firearm I own. Definitely not a common enough caliber to rely on though if the fit hits the shan.
Somebody had made some 7.62×25 barrels for an AR platform, need a bigger mag over 9mm. Build a pps 43, I have a ppsh 41 with .30 and 9 barrels. Kicks ass!
I have both, recoil of the MP5 much more pleasant than the M1A. I am well stocked for both platforms. The major advantage of the M1A is engaging targets at distance
1) I need to train way more. It's been months 2) I only have a couple hundred rounds of 556. So no to number 2 3) being from cali, I enjoy guns so much so that I could just talk to people all day about guns. Now to just somehow find a way to shoot past 100 yds in the bay area... 🤔 As far as battle rifles go, I always thought an ar15 would be in that category but hearing trench, it seems like it's not. My only experience is basic pog usmc experience
I think every specialized tool has a use-case scenario and in the scenario, a specialized tool was designed for it is probably be the best choice, i think with all these types of conversations it is important to recognize these considerations are situationally dependent
I like my m1 carbine (but would grab my ar)... and can actually afford to feed it too. It is in between a PCC and a battle rifle round, basically an intermediate round so it can defeat soft armor, reach a little farther, holds plenty too, lightweight aswell, and easy to maintain. Its only downside is 30 carbine will be harder ammo to find than other rounds.
It's situation and terrain dependent. Think about likely scenarios and the terrain in your area or where you anticipate being and pick the right tool for the job. One isn't better than the other, they just fill different uses better or worse.
I think pcc don't make sense because I can't put it in a holster, and if I ever need a long gun...I will want the barrier defeating capability of the "battle rifle"....those are the only two scenarios I see me not getting into a fight I can't win......
No man is outrunning an Apache, but you *can* move out of the center mass of a fire mission or plain mortars. The term "dying in place" exists for a reason, too.
Just started a few years ago....i enjoy my battle rifle setup... not much long range shooting in rocky mountain areas... hobbies are expensive 😅.... guns are cheaper than my rock crawler habits
Can confirm battle rifle is too expensive. I had a ptr91 and couldnt afford to feed it even though I only shoot twice a month max. Sold it and now only really shoot 5.56 and 9mm
I take shooting 3-4 classes a year, plus dry fire. I run about 1200 rounds a year 9mm, 300 in 45. I burn 800 -1000 rounds 5.56 and 100 in 308. Yes it is expensive as hell to shoot. As for my long range shooting with my 30:06 I just check zeros anymore.
Love me my M14. You’re right about ammo cost though. I’ve only been able to train on my 9mm and .22LR pistols lately. Shit is just too damn expensive. Sweet hat btw
Игры
I'm preparing for TEOTWAWKI today by carrying around 60 extra pounds of fat on my belly and chest. That way, as I slowly starve to death, I'll be able to carry more and more ammo. It's called Fat to Ammo Conversion.
I heard DEVGRU does that as well
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nice.... 😂
That is a plan. Better than no plan.
😅
If only there were some "intermediate" option with the low recoil, cheap ammo, and wide parts availabilty of a carbine, with the capability of engaging at 400 yards... 🤔
I see what you did there... 💯🇺🇲
Oops cheap ammo, whompwhomp
Lol
We shall keep dreaming of that day…
😂
I'm so jealous of people who live in the desert and can shoot at 1000m for free whenever they feel like it
In the prairies we can do that in almost any direction.
I'm not jealous of ANYONE in the desert lmao fuck that
I miss my range in Kansas. 1000m long
Yep my
range 50 m
the desert sucks. Trust me, I practically live in one. Yeah we do have long ranges out to 1000m and have f class competitions and stuff here, but i'm sure you can find that where you live.
Both are useful. It depends on mission and engagement distance.
308 in a "battle rifle", that is used in a CQB (0-50m) for defense when you get ambushed, but like quite a lot of calibers it's a niche, that's extremely effective.
I like that 308 can make holes close up and far away.
REEEE
I flinch everytime i see how much it costs to reup on .308
so get a 5.56, duhhhhhhhhhh
Using ammoseek helps but it's still more expensive than 5.56. Sometimes you find really good deals on there tho.
Rrreeeee
Psa got the hookup
Reloading is cost effective and meditative.
The guys who were fan boys of Small Moustache Man thought highly of the MP40.
They liked the ppsh even better. Faster and more reliable.
Amd your point is ???
If PCCs were full auto then I'd be interested
Mugabe? I didn't know Commie militants used MP40s in the Bush War.
Despite stens being a pile of junk I am firmly a sten gun sympathizer.
They told me getting sp5 is stupid but pdw’s make so much more sense for a civilian than a rifle especially if you live in an urban environment
😂 You are correct. A 'trapper' Winchester model 94, in .357 Magnum is the perfect pistol caliber carbine
I have a Henry and Marlin in .357
I had a pcc 9mm ar for a few years and really enjoyed it. So easy to blow through 2-300 rds of 9mm in an afternoon shoot. I realized it wasnt practical after a few out of battery detonations. Blow back design has its flaws. Even still its a fun toy. An AR in 556 just makes way more sense when reliablility and effectiveness out to 300 yards is factored in. The biggest plus to the AR9 was shooting steel at close ranges and shooting fast without worrying about ammo cost. Sold mine and keep a 556 SBR handy at all times. Love the channel trench. Keep up the good work!
5.56 isn't a battle rifle tho.
@DoraTheMFDestroya neither is 9mm. You don't need full sized cartridges, these days.
@@DoraTheMFDestroya I was only trying to convey my opinion that a 556 SBR (or pistol, etc) is everything an AR9 is and more. They can be built for the same cost or less, have much better terminal ballistics, more effective at farther ranges, and better reliability generally speaking (gas system and locking bolt vs straight blowback). If 556 wasn't an option and I had to pick 9mm or 308 I'm probably taking both and leaving the 308 behind if I had to bug out and leave my truck behind to escape shithole Dallas on foot.
A PCC chambered in 9mm is actually a really practical training tool. I don't own one of those yet, but I will at some point. I have a custom LR-308 to, and if nothing else, the damn thing is just fun as all hell to shoot. Seeing as I live in a desert, probably a good idea to have something that might be able to reach out.
5.56 sbr! 9mm 50yard max range, 9mm is a complete joke past 50 yards, you need to reach out to at least 150 yards
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 A 12.5 SBR would be my choice if going that route. Dudes love their 11.5's to though.
i love my 11.5, very low recoil due to the short barrel @@coltonowens2742 .
USPSA and IDPA PCC is better training for less cost than trying to go to a bunch of expensive carbine courses.
Then stretch a 5.56 as far as you can go for lower volume shooting and marksmanship.
I agree with this 100% I have a keltec sub 2k probably only train with it twice a month, but it's very cost effective and has been completely reliable over probably close to 1000 rounds I have on it
Love my sub 2k. Pairs well if your EDC is a glock platform.
I enjoy your takes on things that sometimes go against the most commonly held ideas, they are thought provoking...
Trench, awsome class.
Thank you
.22 cal.
Bullet placement.
Not just the size of the round matters.
Again, bullet placement.
Train for bullet placement.
Surgical placement.
Now you can CQB.
Close quarters.
Remember: the longest law enforcement sniper shot was 75yrds.
Upon average, you will be engaging, close quarters.
Bullet placement.
I agree, the capabilities needed for military far exceed what's needed for shtf in an urban environment
You're high as fuck
Ask the 22nd SAS what they think of the MP5
I have a Ruger PCC 9 that’s my “get home” rifle. It’s heavy as fuck but it’s a very good shooter. I have a good amount of mags for it +20 round mags not standard capacity g17 mags. And then my get home pistol is my Glock 45 so if I need to share ammo between I can. Obviously I pray it’s never needed but that isn’t going to end well without training. I was at the range today and will be again tomorrow. Picked up a micro dagger and shot 500 through it. Flawless 6 oem Glock 43x mags and 4 oem psa mags.
We have identical set ups gahaha
Own Both PSA AR10 I. 308and a extarEP9 (yeah I’m poor) and dang I love them both! Just different tools for different applications 😊
They are 2 completely different platforms intended for completely different use cases. Personally I have no use for a pcc. They offer nothing a full sized pistol or a shorty ar in 556 can't do.
The MP5 has entered the chat
@@KennethJoines-th4jk For the price of an MP5 you could get a quality AR, that can do what it does better. IE a 300blk where it can have an identical barrel length but better subsonic performance than an mp5sd and supersonic which outranges and is more potent than supersonic 9mm.
I really enjoy my pcc. Loads of fun. Cost to shoot doesn’t even register. But you are exactly right. A 300 blk pdw with 125 bullets. Is a superior platform
yep
9mm is as useless as 22lr, for practice you might as well go with 22lr
I work 70 hours a week for two to three months at a time. I shoot when i get home off the road during that one week off. I can't train anything the way I would like. I have to work like this to pay the bills for my family during this unprecedented time. I have both pcc and battle rifles for different purposes. I bought them when times were better. I enjoy having access to both. I'm not going to sell either because it simply won't matter. When stuff happens, I guess I'll be a loot drop, but I can't do more than i already am to prepare for whatever is coming.
Yes, it sucks when life gets in the way.
At least you’ll make em’ earn it. If there are enough of us in the server playing, we can’t all be loot drops.
Brutal you have to work 70 hour weeks so often. I hope things get better someday. Keep grinding.
@phillipschmidtke2001 that's the life of all truckers. If you can buy it, a trucker brought it. It can be a tough job at times, but i can listen to books, music, and podcasts all day long, so it has its perks.
@phillipschmidtke2001 True. I do have a lot of tools and my ten years in the Army. I am pretty good with most of my firearms, and I had ten solid years of doing a lot of shooting. Two Iraq deployments as infantry can't be replicated by any training, so I have some unique understanding of asymmetric warfare.
Eugene stoner got it right on so many levels when he invented the ar15. I reload 5.56 for about 30 cents a round. At 3200 fps a 55 grain bullet does a lot of damage out to 300 meters. For those of us fudds who stocked up on reloading supplies for the past 20 years we can afford to train and shoot the larger calibers. Pistol ammo will always be pistol ammo and rifle ammo will always be rifle ammo.
dude this guy is 100% fed
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 Im starting to agree lot of people pushing ineffective carbine calibers like 9mm lately
yeah, they must want us outgunned @@theintrovertedcalifornian5047 , not sure what to make of this nonsense.
glock 19, 14.5'' super duty 5.56, slr 10.5'' 300blk, remington 40x tactical .308 win, only guns i have. ☺ i like to keep it simple.
@@theintrovertedcalifornian5047 this is what I was thinking. Why in hell would you go with a pcc if it goes sideways?
Is this a response to blue jean operators battle rifle video yesterday??????
I agree with the premise of the video, but I don't have or want a PCC. My 308 is bolt action for hunting.
EDIT: I'd love to have a MP5 for the vibes
As a kid I remembered the Ruger Camp in 45acp , not to mention all the back to 1870s with the carbine in 45colt ,, i wanted that camp pretty badly , same mags and ammo perfect for truck or go bag
I bought a Smith and Wesson FPC and I am glad I did, have found it more practical to utilize faster than my Battle rifle and AR pistol. In real self defense situations. always be aware of overpenetration is a close quarters engagement, this is why so many love the MP5
Ive been running Colt LE69XX PCC for damn near 20 years . My dad actually owns Colt 633 DOE 9mm . His is the 16" civilian version .
I've always been huge PCC fan . I freaking love my Colt LE6991 Pistol . One of the places we shoot 2Gun matches at uses CQB Format so targets are 50Y and in for the most part . Its fun being able to run 9mm PCC in a match .
My 6991 does not run certain types of JHP ammo . It will run Hornady XTP and TAP / FTX very well . I only have experience with Colt PCC for long term usage . I have shot quite a few MP5s , and MPXs . I really do like the MPX . JP IMO makes the best PCC for Competition. JP and MPX are the top doggs for sure in Competition.
love my KelTec 9mm carbine it's light and easy to shoot and fun accessory's to put on it. Im' 66 years old and cant handle full size rifles anymore. and the high tek ammo to choose from helps in self defence situations.
A couple of senarios when 308 win is better: 1. Open field combat and trench warfare, like WW2 or Korean War. 2. Winter and Arctic warfare when people wear really thick clothings. 3. Mountain warfare, shooting from edge to edge of the mountain across valley. 4. Assasination, shooting through car doors and glasses. 5. City defense, hold the high ground, shoot through incoming vehicles.
I like the perspective. Never seen it in this way. Loving the content.
Have 3x pcc for indoor range, 8x ar15 for outdoor range, and 1x ar10 for terminators, cyclons, and aliens.
I think everyone should have multiple caches. Make cache reports so you can find them.
Thanks Trench 🥸👍
All good points Trench. Also easier for many folks to make follow on shots.
Are we not even going to talk about suppressors??? Federal American Eagle 147gr and Federal 147gr HSTs have the exact same POI and are both subsonic. They both sound like a pellet gun out of my PTR9 with a $600 Surefire Ryder 9.
Appreciate your perspective...words of wisdom...
I shoot 8 - 10 times per year, and attend at least one structured class civ side. I try to run drills that require minimal round counts so that I can add some of the ammo back to my stockpile. I have an M1, and I hunt with a 3006, but I don't stock much ammo for that. I have 2 9mm pccs- beretta cx4 & pmx. So easy to shoot.
Why have a rifle sized pistol when you can have a rifle sized rifle? (5.56/7.62x39)
Although the ammo is cheap and it is good for training, I certainly don't see myself going to battle with something that can't even penetrate soft armor. Still agree that it's better than a battle rifle though due to weight/ammo capacity.
Well he is running a subgun and I believe that’s what he is alluding to. I wouldn’t run a 16in 9mm. 9in barrel max.
great backdrop update trench. I absolutely need a pcc absolutely before a .308 rifle of any kind
AR-10 enthusiast here. Live 45 mins away from the mountains and train recce consistently at least once a month.
I reload my own ammunition and have more than 2000 rounds loaded currently with the availability to load up to 5000 realistically.
In the 5 years I've owned my very accurate, reliable, $1200 Smith and Wesson M&P10 I would say I've put 3000 rounds downrange. I have experienced no accuracy loss.
I have a $600 LVPO 1-8 on my rifle, have my dope card, and can make 1st round hits reliably out to 500 yds.
I wholeheartedly agree that for someone who is not training often or not willing to put in time to learn their rifle, dropping $4000 on a Scar is a waste of money. For the average gun owner I would say a battle rifle is impractical. As my favorite Gun Tuber Garand Thumb (You and Risky are tied for second) says: "Make youself the weapon."
But ya know most people aren't willing to do that so whatever lol.
Good point.
I have a PCC build in the works, slow going right now unfortunately. But EDC and PCC will share same mags.... thinking perfect truck pew?
Perfect truck pew is a m4 lol
@@mikehoncho4637 that's my current truck pew
@@fattiewestside same. Glock 17 appendix carry. Colt m4, compm4s, surefire scout and a sling in the trunk.
If you're not a Chad, older and can't run with the young bucks anymore physically disabled, a PCC is definitely lighter weight ammo and gun, and something you could defend yourself with absolutely. If your main system is going to be a pistol or PCC whatever it is make sure you can carry enough ammo to be effective and that you can handle the weapon you're carrying.
Thing get progressively harder at distance especially under stress or off hand
If you take us bandolier, open flap and put velcro on top instead of button, you gonna have ability to carry 3 32 rnd glock mags in each pouch so total 9. You can put velcro inside and put inserts inside. You can put med kit inside. You can carry it as pouch on side or add strap and make chest rig of it. All perfect for pcc
Great video 💯 I agree
I came up on a very good deal for a PTR 91 recently, just mounted a 1-6 lpvo and it is quite heavy. I will try to put at least 500 rounds down range this year on it, luckily there is a 600 yard range not too far from my house. Its definitely not my first choice for SHTF but its fun to shoot and could add some capability to my group if I learn to utilize it well.
Would this be a good option for your medical guy/gal or comms? Like, people who have to already carry additional equipment for their job.
I have a Beretta cx4 and man I love that thing. It runs Beretta 92 mags which is a downside being I run a Glock 19 as my edc. But that being said it is an absolute blast to shoot.
I'm sure it's a great gun but man is it ugly.
keep doing the lords work brother
I'm going with a mp7 with a binny for my side arm. Still sticking with 556 AR.
I live in the sticks, so I may have to go out with the 7mm bolty boi.
Ive been thinking about getting a 9mm like the one you have as a truck gun... or maybe ill just get myself a nice little blkout honey badger or sig mpx
CMMG drop in 22 kit nice for 556 AR to shoot cheap.
Both have a place on the field. I don't own a PCC myself but I do recognize the niche that it fills in the personal/home defense and executive protection fields.
Trench is correct in the context that he lays out. There is a time and place for either platform.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
I cant really use an ar15 type of weapon in ny state. I hunt a lot. Am i better off training with my shotgun? My bolt 30-06 bolt gun. Various lever guns and a sks.
308Win brass is infinitely reloadable. I'm still reloading Federal Gold Medal Match brass originally from ammo I bought in 2008. Weren't you still in high school in 2008??
I'm waiting for the TP9 ”we have at home to come out”
I have a feeling you are about to set RUclips on fire with this one 😂
I own 2 long guns besides a shotgun. Sig AR15 type carbine and a MP5 (semi auto) Spent years shooting the AR platform, but probably shoot the MP5 more now due to it being cheaper, and when I go to range only having to carry 9mm which I also use in my M&P pistol. Availability is also a factor. Thanks for all the great content.
I want that 9mm mp40 from palmetto State is it dumb or is it a good investment
I have 2 AR9 Glock mag dedicated I shot both recently. One is a pistol braced and other is SBR. I shoot the 6 inch plate at 100 about 9 of 10 but 12 inch is 10 of 10
Yep!!!! Its good tp have a pcc that takes the most common pistol caliber. I have an Aero PC9 myself and love it.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
@@timsimmons9995 The 4 points of contact, shoulder, cheek, both hands makes it easier to hold steadier for farther targets 100yards and even farther is very doable if you know what the bullet trajectory is doing.
I run the sm 9m carbine and figured I can keep fighting in minecraft with my glock 17, same mags. I also train with a howa 6.5 for long range and shoot out to 1k yards, train 2x a month on the carbine, 5k rounds on backup💪
Here (Italy) now a box of 1000 cci large rifle primers cost 220 euros. 50 round s fmj 223 fiocchi, 25 euro, a box of 50 9mm fmj 14,5 euros
Yeah. What you said... I hate recoil. I hate weight. And I hate dropping $1.75 every time I go bang. But mostly I miss too much to go with .308
Where the PCC shines is in home defense, it is not too loud and is easier to shoot than a handgun. For anything else, a Glock on your belt and an AR is the way to go.
I’m a AR10 and M1A enjoyer myself but I’m not gonna argue with his points here. My AR10 is more setup as a heavy DMR and the M1A is just for fun. But I actually train more with my AR9 than either of my .308 guns. When I lived in AZ, it was fun to take the .308 guns out to 700ish yards but now I’m in MI and only do that a couple times a year. I able to take a deer with the AR10 this fall but even that shot was only 150 yards.
Hi Point Carbine
1. I train 3-4 times per month
2. I can afford to stock pile rounds
3. Battle rifles are pretty inefficient but dmr’s are cool
agree 100% been sayin' this for a year or two , the cowboy hat is badass
I am currently thinking of building a PCC... I think this video has sold me on it. It was on either a PCC or a 762x39... and I think this video sold me on doing the PCC first.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
@@timsimmons9995 easier to stabilize + less recoil = more accurate
Idk why i never considered getting a PCC , especially with how cheap 9mm is compared to 556. I might have to do that
I have a scorpion evo s1 gen3, love it and so reliable
She's right, I do already have one at home. 5.7 and it's the funnest firearm I own. Definitely not a common enough caliber to rely on though if the fit hits the shan.
Kinda wanting to do a pcc build in 7.62x25 if such a lower and upper existing for that cartridge.
Somebody had made some 7.62×25 barrels for an AR platform, need a bigger mag over 9mm. Build a pps 43, I have a ppsh 41 with .30 and 9 barrels. Kicks ass!
KAK Industries makes them. 7.62 x 25 ammo is not readily available.
@@ChineseChicken1 That 95 Sega saturn commercial is weird.
where did you get those flags on the background? i like them
I’m both crowds and I enjoy all of it.
I’m loving that 240 on the wall behind you. If you see this, can you tell me where you got that flag.
I have both, recoil of the MP5 much more pleasant than the M1A. I am well stocked for both platforms. The major advantage of the M1A is engaging targets at distance
the average civ, i recommend a flux raider p365, and a ccw p365. same mags, same caliber.
Same shit platform lol
atleast its a platform you'll have with you@@mikehoncho4637
PCCs are like basketball shoes with flip flop soles.
I'm a fan of PCC's, they're also good for training your friends w/@ the range, rather than giving them a big rifle
1) I need to train way more. It's been months
2) I only have a couple hundred rounds of 556. So no to number 2
3) being from cali, I enjoy guns so much so that I could just talk to people all day about guns. Now to just somehow find a way to shoot past 100 yds in the bay area... 🤔
As far as battle rifles go, I always thought an ar15 would be in that category but hearing trench, it seems like it's not. My only experience is basic pog usmc experience
I think every specialized tool has a use-case scenario and in the scenario, a specialized tool was designed for it is probably be the best choice, i think with all these types of conversations it is important to recognize these considerations are situationally dependent
I'm a battle rifle enjoyer. But still love to hear this.
I own both, M1carbine(PPCish) and M1 garand (BR)
Both ammunitions are uncommon 😳
👁👄👁
MPX
I like my m1 carbine (but would grab my ar)... and can actually afford to feed it too. It is in between a PCC and a battle rifle round, basically an intermediate round so it can defeat soft armor, reach a little farther, holds plenty too, lightweight aswell, and easy to maintain. Its only downside is 30 carbine will be harder ammo to find than other rounds.
Should you carry fmj or hp in a pcc???
“Over penetration “ can be useful in a shtf scenario
It's situation and terrain dependent. Think about likely scenarios and the terrain in your area or where you anticipate being and pick the right tool for the job. One isn't better than the other, they just fill different uses better or worse.
I think pcc don't make sense because I can't put it in a holster, and if I ever need a long gun...I will want the barrier defeating capability of the "battle rifle"....those are the only two scenarios I see me not getting into a fight I can't win......
Now for home defense I think they have their place.
"Break contact and get away" you can run but you'll just die tired.
yep, but not if you dive into the briar patch
Sometimes that's true.
No man is outrunning an Apache, but you *can* move out of the center mass of a fire mission or plain mortars.
The term "dying in place" exists for a reason, too.
but but but Ukraine and the trench warfare @@SynerG4ce . lol, 🤣
@@SynerG4ce large numbers in dispersion, that chopper has to land at some point. Use your head.
Sporterized Mosin. 😁👍🤙👍
Or Ruskie captured K98. 😊 I have both. 😊😊😊
45 acp is the best cartridge for a sub gun for a number of reasons.
Just started a few years ago....i enjoy my battle rifle setup... not much long range shooting in rocky mountain areas... hobbies are expensive 😅.... guns are cheaper than my rock crawler habits
So that's the best thing you've got is a cowboy hat from Texas song
Opening up a can o worms with this one... (as long as it's 10mm...)
For once i think we found something we agree on. I dont own a PCC, but i do agree that it fills the bill for most people just fine.
Can confirm battle rifle is too expensive. I had a ptr91 and couldnt afford to feed it even though I only shoot twice a month max. Sold it and now only really shoot 5.56 and 9mm
I take shooting 3-4 classes a year, plus dry fire. I run about 1200 rounds a year 9mm, 300 in 45. I burn 800 -1000 rounds 5.56 and 100 in 308. Yes it is expensive as hell to shoot. As for my long range shooting with my 30:06 I just check zeros anymore.
Love me my M14. You’re right about ammo cost though. I’ve only been able to train on my 9mm and .22LR pistols lately. Shit is just too damn expensive.
Sweet hat btw
Never dabbled in either side of this debate, so no wisdom to dish out here. Love the new back drop though Trench!
What is an sks considered?
One of our designated marksmen. Let me shoot his scar L yesterday it was bad ass. His setup is over 10k