15:19 To be very fair, West World is very much an intentional, fictional depiction of the wild west in a theme park context. Most of those characters are robots and historical accuracy would be just as important to the theme park owners as it would be to most hollywood movie producers.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
I@Potent_Techmology German immigrants weren't very accepting of Slavery in America, in fact, they were the first large ethnic group in America to oppose it, and were the most common Immigrant to be in the Union Army.
@@CommunityFan lol not even close! The Polish community not only refused to have african colonies, which Germans genocided along with Poles and Jews, but after Napoleon freed a part of German controlled Poland, Polish soldiers went to Haiti to fight for their freedom after refusing to execute French plans of subjugation. Kościuszko made out a will in which he left his American estate, including money owed to him by the U.S. government, to his friend Thomas Jefferson. He directed that the funds be used to purchase the freedom of enslaved African Americans and to provide them with education and land to support themselves. Which Jefferson refused to do...
You can just sense how many times this expert has had to give an exasperated explanation to someone who cowboys weren't ubercool badasses living in constant danger and near a gun fight at all time.
Cowboys remain ubercool, and remain badasses for the work they did and what they had to put up with. Many of them weren't armed with six-shooters though. Most of them didn't get into gunfights.
@@workingguy-OU812 What d'ya mean? Those guys were blasting each other, getting into tavern brawls, robbing banks, robbing trains, holding up stage coaches, shootin' rattlers and other varmits, making last members of extinct Indian tribes their blood-brothers, and fighting evil rail-road barons expanding into the wild, untamed West with silver-plated six-guns, wearing masks and living off the wilds. C'mon, this guy doesn't know squat.
@@mottthehoople693 "cowboys were originally irish not american" - American cowboys were from many countries, and some of them were of African descent.
I think that with the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, they were mimicking the samurai movie convention of drawing and killing with a single stroke of the katana.
They were re-making the actual damned truth. Everyone got into gun battles and each guy wearing a black cowboy hat had 7 lives, every guy with a white hat 9, and those in brown hats, 11. All of the graves on Boothill are empty. How else do you think they got all of those people to work on oil rigs these days? Cowboys. Every last one of them.
Ah, there was a duel like that in Seven Samurai, I never thought that the Mexican Standoff is basically the adaptation of two samurais running into each other and then only one left standing... Good catch!
Well, the first of the Dollars trilogy was definitely a samurai film (Yojimbo) remade. Don't know if the other two qualify, but the single strike kill definitely makes the gunmen in spaghetti westerns as deadly as a ronin with a katana. Everything is just threat and tension up to a certain point, but once the weapon is out, it must shed blood without mercy.
I really appreciate how he's willing to kill certain myths about the West. Gives me the impression of someone who loves what he does and hates the fetishizing of the period
Iconoclastic myth-busters are the worst party poopers imaginable. I'm sure he tried telling everyone Santa isn't real, too. Well, he's a stinky dum-dum head, that's what.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmologyhe said very specifically German immigrants aka ones who didn’t live in Germany anymore and didn’t decide German policy but ok go off
The thing that bothers me about the earlier 1950s and 60s westerns is that the actors are clean cut with short mid 20th century haircuts, rarely have beards, wore clean clothes with no tears, stains, patches. They all have the standard issue Stetson and neckerchief. Nothing at all like what you would expect for folks working hard, dirty, work with few luxuries and only occasionally getting the opportunity to clean up.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmology I wouldn't be surprised if some extra context was cut. My guess is that he's referring to how at that time, in those areas, German immigrants were largely Lutheran and therefore religiously/politically largely abolitionist. He's referring to just immigrants being anti-slavery ideologically (in a sort of insipid kind of way). That isn't to say that Germany didn't partake in the slave trade or that immigrants weren't racist AF. And they were absolutely heavy hitters in the colonization department I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
What a refreshing review. I'm of African and Indigenous ancestry, and I, too, found the inclusion, although fiction, of "Cherokee Bill" as an anti-hero horrendous. But to be precise, his family were not enslaved Cherokee Freedmen. His father was a much respected (even in post-US Civil War Texas) US Cavalry Buffalo Soldier who married a multi-ethnic Afro-Indian of African and Cherokee ancestry. He grew up with the best his family could afford, was educated more than most of his peers, and surpassed those of most minorities. He was raised spoiled and grew into a bully, then developed into a serial rapist. He befriended others of the same ilk, and they formed a loose gang that terrorized the Indian Territories. It mattered not if you were Indigenous, African American, White, Latin, or between. He and his gang were murderous rapists and thieves, and (he, from all accounts) felt no remorse and reveled in the pain and suffering they were responsible for. I hope "Insider" brings Mr. Graurer back. I'd love to hear his critique on these movies: Sgt. Rutledge, Buck and the Preacher, Buffalo Soldiers, Ft. Apache, Silverado, and the Bass Reeves series.
He went around blasting everyone, getting into gunfights at high noon and he robbed 37 banks before uncovering the ancient tomb of Random Bull where he discovered the feather of far-seeking. With that in his hat he road through the fluvial mists into the haunted dark where he dueled serpent men, witches, zombies, werewolves, and Mort-engine Jack himself.
I haven't watched the Bass Reeves show, I've heard of him but know little, what your take, do you think its accurate ? I'm from London, England and was brought up on westerns. Really enjoyed The English with Emily Blunt but Unforgiven is my all time favourite.
@@matthewmckever2312 The old west was full of cowboys riding around blasting people at the drop of a hat for less than a nickel. You see a guy you don't like, you challenge him to a game of poker at the local saloon and one wrong move from that do-hickey of a goofball and you *_BLAST_* 'im! This guy complaining about the old western movies' inaccuracies is a big old party pooper. Cowboys rode around blasting everyone under the sun. They blasted buffalo, indians, other cowboys, even their own darned horses.
The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum is really a great museum, with a truly world class collection. Good to see them and their staff being involved in a great series!
The photo at 14:56 is of the 9th Mississippi Infantry, encamped near Pensacola, Florida in 1861. This was my great-great-grandfather P.G. Palmer's unit. (Though grievously wounded with a minie ball through the mouth and jaw, P.G. survived the war and moved from Mississippi to Goldthwaite, Texas.) The soldiers, left to right are: Jason Peques, Kinloch Falconer, John Fennel, Jason Cunningham, Thomas W. Falconer, Jason Sims, and John T. Smith. Don't have the name of the soldier standing in the background behind Thomas Falconer.
Would love to see this man's take on Unforgiven, a movie specifically designed to subvert all of the typical Western tropes and present a more grounded take on what that time in American history was like.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_TechmologyNot really. German immigrants to the United States from 1830 onwards were almost all abolitionists. In fact many were radical abolitionists who advocated a violent overthrow of the slave trade.
The Comanche in Texas were no joke. They were absolutely winning until the invention of the repeating rifle! Brutal fighting on both sides. Wearing each others skins!
I have made a comment about this video. One thing about Townsfolk fighting back the Historian mention, is that he forgets that when Jesse James and the Cole Younger gang hit the Northfield Minnesota bank, it was the town folks who also pulled out their privately owned fire arms and blasted the heck out of the gang.
For that matter, most towns couldn't afford to keep a large contingent of full-time law-enforcement. Anything more serious than day-to-day peacekeeping usually relied on citizens volunteering. Just because they don't always carry their guns everywhere doesn't mean they don't have them tucked away somewhere easy-to-reach.
Is it worth pointing out that The Good, the Bad and the Ugly takes place during the Civil War and that all the characters had plenty of opportunities to loot weapons and ammunitions during their various run-ins with both sides, even discounting that they spend some time as paramilitaries and in Angel Eyes' case, a uniformed officer? Being "armed to the teeth all the time" perhaps makes more sense in that context than it would otherwise. Not that that movie is even really supposed to be an accurate representation of anything: I think Leone confirmed that characters in the movie have no peripheral vision beyond what the camera shows.
@@hypothalapotamus5293 yeah, a Fistful of Dollars is basically a remake of Yojimbo, who itself is a very loose Japanese adaptation of Glass Key, a noir film based on story by Dashiell Hammett, the Maltese Falcon author.
Everything about that film is parody. That's really the only way to view it, with virtually every western trope played out. Leone said as much about that, as well.
Revolvers of the time weren't inherently inaccurate as he claims. It was the use of black powder and little tiny sights you can barely use the that made them harder to use. Plenty of western figures had near legendary reputations for marksmanship.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmology They're talking about Germans in the US who were largely against slavery. And the German states involvement in slavery were limited and short due to the competition from other European powers like the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese. Germany did have colonies but these were involved mostly in the post slavery era
@@LilRebelYell no, they weren't Germany literally had slave trade in the caribbean and in african colonies but ya, less than others They also genocided Slavs and Jews, and propped up the Soviet government and started WWI and WWII
I would too. Let us remember that Milch wasn't trying to make an accurate history, but he does contend that his dialogue would have been more representative of the way he believes people spoke (based on letters from the era) as opposed to the John Wayne style laconic cowboy/gun fighter. I'd love to hear this guy's opinion on the accuracy of that.
Fun fact about the trope of teaching the townsfolk to defend themselves...that actually comes from Magnificent 7's primary inspiration, Kurosawa's _Seven Samurai!_ The movie that popularized it was borrowing it from a completely different setting.
Then there's the infamous Yojimbo/For a Fistful of Dollars situation too. A lot of those grittier westerns that came out in the 60's and beyond were really samurai movies set in the American west. Even the characters are similar - the lone wandering outlaw gunman/bounty hunter compared to the lone wandering jobless samurai. Lots of overlap.
@@blakeprocter5818 It's really fun seeing all of the ways that samurai films and cowboy films inspired each other. It's like seeing a snapshot of the creative process.
@@TehNoobiness It is interesting. Have you seen the film Red Sun? That actually crosses both genres, starring Charles Bronson and Toshiro Mifune as an unlikely duo. Not the most sophisticated western, or the most innovatively shot, but very fun. Really cool west meets east movie with two of the iconic stars from both genres.
0:49 American in Japan: It's an interesting parallel. The mythology is that every samurai was a master swordsman who could do magical things with their sword and technique. That's complete BS. Just like soldiers in the US military today, most were just GI samurai, and some were "Lords." Especially when we're talking lords, we're really talking about administrative roles, like Congressmen, Mayors, and Governors. They managed their districts and constituents, but in battle, they had their own specialties, which often weren't swords much less specifically katana--the basic sidearm, the Colt 45 of samurai. Carrying two swords was more like a police officer carrying a badge or the rank pins on an officer's lapel. They were archers, spear specialists, late in the time of the samurai some were specialists in firearms and cannons.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
"Only outlaws and law enforcement carried guns back then" in a movie about outlaws and lawmen facing each other... i swear sometimes these experts just object to scenes because they know they are suppoused to.
Well, and it's not as clear cut as all that either. A lot of the "no carrying guns" rules in various towns applied only to the saloon district and/or only to non-residents. And while there were towns that had such rules, there were also towns that did not. And duels in the street did happen on occasion in some places, and a duel that both parties engaged in voluntarily was generally treated very differently from a murder. But any duelists would most definitely be held responsible for property damage and the safety of bystanders if they decided to have it out in a public place. Hollywood mostly just takes uncommon, but dramatic happenings and puts them in every movie. Oh, and he's wrong about the pistols of the era being "notoriously inaccurate." It's just that they were pistols, not rifles. But you can find plenty of historically verifiable accounts of good shooting with them. Also bad shooting. I ran across a period review of the Colt Dragoon pistol at one point. The experienced shooter who wrote it considered managing to keep 12 shots on a 10ft diameter target to be "adequate"... At 400 yards... 4MOA with a pistol is pretty good, even by modern standards.
as far as gun fights go, most states had established law and order earlier than 1900, in fact closer to 1880. by 1890 there were 2 states left with some "wild west " in them. utah, which was more fully settled down during the 1890s, and arizona, which remained somewhat wild west-like until about 1925. the extreme majority of what we would call "wild west" took place between the late 1860s and 1881. and only in the WEST. the northeast was civilized far earlier. many of the firearms we see used in these films originated in the 1870s. (colt saa and winchester 73 were both from 1873) so for an accurate movie that wanted to use the correct guns, and didnt put things in the wrong time frame it would be a narrow time period indeed. season 1 of deadwood (mid1876 to mid 1877) is nearly pure fact. seasons 2 and 3 are made up, because the truth is that law and order took hold there after about 1 year.
I think the greatest misconception about the Wild West is how long (or short) it actually was. 1860/1865 - 1890/1920 So from 25 to 60 years, and that's really generous.
I have to call bs on the range remarks. Wild Bill shot David Tutt in the chest at 75 yards with his revolver. Now that's not easy, but to say it's impossible is kinda unacceptable from a historian. Also, a gatling gun had an effective range of up to 200-3500 yards, depending on the model at time in the 1800s.
@@KasumiRINA F*ck off, dude. I use metric system as well but people can output whatever information they have at hand and are familiar with. Just learn you own damn self, a yard is about 90cm. If you don't wanna learn, Google. Yes metric is objectively the best system but just accept that some people are used to imperial for historical reasons.
@@KasumiRINA A meter is 8.5cm longer. So 182 to 3200 meters... Yeah, for basic conversations like this that don't need precision you can pretty much use them interchangeably... Do note that they tried to define the meter as a fraction of the earth's circumference in order to make navigation easy... But they screwed it up and the margin of error on the meter is substantially worse than for the yard. You'll find lots of us Americans aren't afraid of metric at all. We just added it to our pile of available units and use whichever ones make the measuring and/or math easiest. Thirds and halves are way easier to eyeball than the fifths and halves you need for fieldwork in metric.
Some of those confederates that left the states after the war, instead of going back across the border, they continued south and there is a town in Brazil that was settled by ex-confederates
One comment about swinging doors. The Bruin Inn, St Albert, Alberta is the oldest bar in western Canada and it had swinging doors. The bar was opened in the last 1800's. Oh, and on a Saturday night, prepare to enjoy the fights.
Unless I'm wrong, the bar was built in 1929, and was demolished over 20 years ago And I can't find any photos of swing doors, or even a wide doorway to accommodate them
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
Yes! The swinging doors are a REAL thing in the west. I looked it up! It was used for ventilation from nasty smells and the heat, They has secondary full-size doors used to lock the the saloons when not in business. :D
Kevin Costner is so underrated and underappriciated for making some of the most accurate Westerns ever made. His attention to history & details, and his sensitivity to the Native Americans representation-no one in the industry is doing it like him.
14:42 It’s funny that you mentioned “Renegade Confederates,” in the Rockstar Video Game, “Red Dead Redemption 2,” there’s a featured Outlaw Gang that consisted of Former Confederate soldiers. You can tell that the Game’s creators went all out to make the game as accurate as possible, when it comes to the Wild West.
I really hope Insider will have him do a deep-dive into Red Dead Redemption 2. It would be interesting to hear what an expert has to say about the definitive cowboy/outlaw game. It all feels very realistic and very natural, and Rockstar does their research. I think it would be a very entertaining video. Also, missed opportunity to have this legend react to "A Million Ways to Die in the West". As unrealistic as it is, it shows some of the daily frontier life to a certain extend, instead of what you usually see in a cowboy movie. Again, very unrealistically, but mister Grauer can then explain what daily life was really like. It is also a very funny movie in my opinion.
@@13YoJest13 I agree with Vaunt. It is a masterpiece regardless of genre. The storytelling, character development, world building and atmosphere are something most movies, tv shows, games and books can only dream off. It kind of doesn't matter what genre it is, if it this good. It it not king of all genres as there is entertainment on par with RDR2, or better, but in my opinion it is up there with the greats.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmologyhe's probably meaning the common German immigrants to the u.s which given European tradition usually immigrated for religious reasons or because their lives were less than fruitful in their home country therfore many of them would be educated to some degree atleast and would more than likely have a more unionst or independence driven views on America as whole which probably generally influenced atleast the immigrating Germans to on a very broad yet not exact level be more often than not pro abolition infact historicaly germans readily immigrated to northern Mexico after the banning and illegalization of slavery (they were probably weirdly racist and or held prejudice views as did many abolotionists and anti slavery movement groups/people regarldess of creed or color but again probably morw in a weird time period and region specific ways usually towards those of the "old world "and generally more often other Europeans)
@@Potent_TechmologyThe German empire did. But it the average German would never see the colonies. The Americans were used to black slaves being sold in their towns. Big difference.
16:49 I love the dances with wolves movie but I think it's so cool that one of my great uncles had buffalo that was used in this movie. Unfortunately he has since passed away and not sure if those buffalo are still around.
@@erakfishfishfish what I love in Quentin's movies is they work on the rule of cool and "what audience wants", my fav part is how the girls do with the killer in Death Proof. The villain isn't arrested or falls on glass as hero is stretching his hand to save the bad guy, he just gets DESTROYED... he also killed Hitler, had a stuntman take revenge on Bruce Lee for abusing them, and used flamwthrower on the Manson family... Oh and Bruce Willis just picks a katana over other weapons because that's how we like it.
A lot of the stuff he "corrects" in the movies is simply wrong or at the very least not expanded on as it should be. A simple example is the swinging doors. Most had them, but they also had regular doors. The swing doors were to let smoke out but still have coverage.
Not sure I understand the criticism of the characters being armed to the teeth in the Good the Bad and the Ugly - they are all outlaws, and Angel Eyes also works for the army - they are precisely the people he said would be armed to the teeth
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
I feel like this interview got cut up in a weird way. Some of his statements have their explanations cut out and things. I wouldn’t read into it too much.
i think everyone knows now that cowboys and Indians didn't slaughter each other ever chance they get but its really fun to see Indians vs cowboys in shows and movies ( my opinion)
I'm pretty sure most of the firearms were concentrated on the frontier territories and among travelers, in towns people (I think) rely on law enforcement
We have nearly comprehensive records of what the gun laws were in most major frontier towns. Gun checks became nearly universal in the 1870s-80s. Some working cowboys did start to wear the open-holster cartridge gunbelts in the 1880s, but in response to fashion, not practicality. Maybe one in twenty wearers had any shooting skill, as ammunition was expensive. Most firearms incidents in cowtowns involved negligent discharges by people who snuck guns in or by people in private homes.
@@maotisjan "firearms" in that sense were typically muskets and hunting rifles. Everything else were in military armories or with lawmen, so very hard to come by.
@@Native_Creation ? no, if you look at a catalogue from the 1890s, you'll see all types of guns for sale, including repeaters, shot guns, and revolvers. muskets were long out of date. additionally, military-style firearms were considered to be appropriate for a civilian to own, as evidenced by the later united states vs. miller case. interestingly, the case determined that a firearm was only reasonable to own if its use had precedence in a military context.
@@Native_CreationGetting a firearm was only limited by one's purse or desire. The idea the government could limit your right is a 20th century fiction.
Great video. Michael, thank you for uploading. Lots of great myths blown out of the water here. The gun myth deserves special attention. Not everyone carried a gun, and those who did were mostly criminals. Fast forward 170 years and every man and his dog packs a weapon of some description. Guns and gun-fighters are essential elements of the Western genre and wouldn’t be the same without them but we have to be able to separate fact from fiction at some point. I grew up on a steady diet of American westerns but it wasn’t until many years later when I realised some things weren't quite right, like how First Nations were portrayed in movies.
As far as the whole covered wagon thing goes, I never saw when that scene is supposed to take place. If it’s before the rail road, then it makes more sense. And I don’t know if they still would’ve used covered wagons to get to certain spots where the railroad just hadn’t gotten yet.
They explicitly mention the railroad going to the west coast in the show I believe they just say it’s extremely cost prohibitive, $700 is sticking in my head I believe.
My understanding is that most places just stayed very underpopulated, if not unpopulated altogether, until a railway was built. Speaking generally, not specific to the movie scene. Also not necessarily places that were accessible from a Pacific port.
I always get a chuckle from that river fight scene in The Searchers. As noted, it's based on Cynthia Ann Parker, who was taken from Fort Parker, TX just NE of me. That river is probably the Brazos river, and to this day you need a machete to get down to the banks. But John Ford loved Monument Valley. BTW, Parker was the mother of Quanah Parker, the last chief of the Comanches (son of Peta Nocona, namesake of the town and boots). He became a wealthy rancher, and represented the Comanches to the Feds in arguing for their rights, and even became a sheriff in Oklahoma.
Finally a true expert debunks all these ignorant movie Western Movie tropes that have been repeated so often, many believe them to be historically accurate. My heartfelt thanks to Michael Grauer. Now Insider get me another expert to debunk policemen drawing guns everywhere, peanut eating elephants, horned viking helmets, banana eating monkeys, car keys on suns vizor, slipping on banana peel, outrunning an explosion, et cetera pp ...
I always highly suggest the Cowboy and Western Heritage museum, if people visit Oklahoma City. Great museum, people should also check out the First American Museums.
No, he was quite right. They weren't invented until some time in the 1870s and they were hardly ubiquitous. He didn't say they didn't exist, just that they were not that common, which is true.
@@seneschal4617 fair, I agree in them likely not being as prevalent as old western films imply, I took his comment though as that it was a Hollywood invention.
This was a super guest. I might also recommend Stephen Aron, of the Autry Museum. He was my professor in university and he is a fantastic communicator.
Good video, however have to disagree (partially) with the fact that the weapons of the period were patently inaccurate. A good portion of them were not particularly accurate, however the 1873 Colt Single Action Army, the Volcanic and afterward Henry Rifle, 1866 Yellowboy, and 1873 Winchester as well as the 1873 and 1884 Trapdoor Springfield rifles, Sharps rifles had a reputation for good accuracy. The Henry .44 Rimfire was not a powerhouse cartridge, but it accounted for itself in the civil war and after. Two civilians, James Wheatley and Isaac Fisher who were present at the Fetterman Massacre were armed with Henry Rifles and gave a good account of themselves until they ran out of ammunition and were ultimately killed. The Springfield Trapdoor Cavalry carbine was calibrated for 500 yard shot accuracy using the Buffington rear sight. The advent of the centerfire 44/40 cartridge greatly improved both the reliability and accuracy of 19th century arms chambered for that cartridge. The gunfight in the alley by the OK Corral between the Earp's and the Cowboys revealed a political divide in Tombstone between the Democrats (cowboys) and Republicans (Earps with the possible exception of Holliday who was a southern sympathizer). The Democrats were made up of mostly southern sympathizers who favored the south during the recent American Civil War while the Republicans favored the Union cause. Tombstone had two newspapers, one favoring the Democrat politic and the other the Republican politic. All of the players however hand a hand in criminal activity at one time or another.
Clicked this accidentally but glad I stayed to the end as The Cowboys is a favorite. One quibble: Mr. Grauer mentions how some hand-picked lawmen used to enforce the law selectively. I remove the "used to".
I think the Westworld scene needs the caveat that everyone pictured is either a rich tourist or a robot acting out narrative, written in-universe by a grandiose Englishman, that had little to no intended historical accuracy.
Yeah, very important to note this, it is set in the future where there is a theme park carciature of the old west being used to entertain people. It would be like judging medieval life by going to the Snow White part of Disney World.
seriously how stupid is it to criticise a science fiction satirical depiction of all the cliches, tropes and caricatures of Westerns, made for tourists to live out their fantasy, expressly NOT historical but a video game of sorts. That's like criticising GTA 5 for being too exaggerated of real life crime.
I really like Open Range. Even if the final gunfight is over-the-top, the still made it a point to demonstrate how rare they were with the discussion between Boss and Charley. They weren't depicted as battle-hardened gunfighters per the usual stereotype.
Bro, the GBU is a classic. They are 3 gunfighters. The whole movie is more than this scene. It also takes place during the Civil War. Everyone was armed.
The idea that people didn't regularly carry weapons is so patently false I don't understand how any self-respecting Western historian makes that claim. Being a pioneer family, we still have guns that my great-great-grandfather owned. This is not uncommon with other families throughout the 'West,' They extrapolate two primary sources where as the 'open' carry of firearms was strictly prohibited. Logic would say that there are more than two towns in the West, and most people didn't live in a town. This isn't to say that all pioneers were gunslingers but upwards of 90 percent of them owned and regularly carried firearms. I am tired of historians making that claim when a million primary documents point to the opposite being true, like at the beginning of the Nez Perce war pioneers murdered a native with a gun. They were not lawmen rather prospectors, its crazy how one paper made from a shaky premise spread like wildfire through academia.
Most or at least "All" towns don't allowed guns within the area. They were be taken to the Sheriff station or something like that for inspection. I imagine outside of towns, they're used for hunting, Survival, Etc. Is that correct?
"This is laughable, they'd never have guns unless they were lawmen, bounty hunters or criminals" - Charterers he's talking about: 2 bounty hunters and a criminal.
He is a historian. Documentation is everything, and gun owners are the most law-abiding group of people and wouldn't create a lot of documents with criminal accusations
@KasumiRINA Cowboy became a thing around the early 16th century, and the earliest set of data I can find is in 17th century where it says about 50%-74% of people owned guns (even if we excluded female who I believe it was illegal for then to own firearms) that is still a large amount of the population, if you consider them all criminals there is literally no way we would still exist in a country today... or do you think that a country can survive with a larger criminal group, then they have an agricultural group?
@@leejohnson3270umm, yeah, it's absolutely possible. Take Australia for example, it literally started off as a Penal Colony, a "wasteland" prison for the undesirables. So yeah, you absolutely can have a country based on a criminal population. In fact, the United States was considered to be criminals during the Revolutionary war based on the fact that we rebelled against the Crown and overthrew the Crowns reach of the original colony's.
There's probably no greater part of American history where the popular psyche and historical reality diverge greater than with the American West. I appreciate it whenever people like Michael Grauer take the time to try and bring light to the true, and still epic, history rather than double down on the false mythmaking of the early 20th century.
Please bring representatives of different tribes to comment on Native American depictions in Hollywood. As someone born and raised in Texas, and who's been a cowboy extra (AMC's "The Son"), he had some good facts on Cowboys, I think he could have expanded that Cowboy culture itself, which technically came from Mexico/New Spain, originated from Spanish Vaquero traditions. San Antonio is considered the birthplace of the Cowboy (though there's other contenders). I'm not sure what he means on the lasso being tied to Africa, but the Soldados de Cuera on the Northern frontier incorporated North African traditions. Their specific techniques developed in Texas and New Spain however.
I just watched Wild Wild West and that was pretty intuitive and eye opening on things I never knew happened back then. Like the armored tank and a guy with a steam powered wheelchair
Knowing a bit about firearms... There's not TOO terribly much difference between revolver guns in the 1800s Western US an similar countries AND most modern revolvers today since you got to make them in much same way... So what makes 1800s guns so "notoriously inaccurate" but plenty modern made ones DEADLY accurate.. save for the shooters and the materials used? Something feels off with that somehow.. dunno ALSO.. was I only one got the impression the hero Indian an Lt Bad Guy Indian from opposite tribes ENTIRELY. Wasn't it one was Apache an other Comanche or the 2 ACTUALLY most warlike tribes from the plains region which was Massive in this time period
This dude is trying so hard to crush and push his “knowledge” he is not even realizing the plots of the movies. “Only bad guys and law men carried a gun” as we watch movies about outlaws and lawmen cause that was the whole point of Clint Eastwood movies and most westerns 🤦🏻♂️
Especially about West World, where the plot is a fictional western styled theme park with robots playing characters. "4 armed robbers are gonna rob a contingent of soldiers, it doesn't make any sense" Well if you're a visitor in that theme park, playing an outlaw and robbing an army transport with your buddies sounds like a fun thing to do imo.
@@BamBamGT1 yeah it’s like he’s watch the searchers with John Wayne saying fights between cowboys and Indians never happened. But John W. Is a ex confederate soldier. Not a cowboy. He’s just dressed like one. This dudes just dumb.
@@BamBamGT1 Yeah, and it seems like he never heard of Ned Kelley, who did that kind of crazy in real life... Australia rather than the western USA though.
For real. That honestly should be mainstream knowledge for any old west historian, because there are strong similarities between the Old West of the United States, and the early days of the Australian outback.
Well hes still being told to talk about whether they are accurate or not, so he doesnt have to factor in the plot. I'm sure he's well aware of most of these movie plot lines and what those lines try to accomplish. Yet these movies have become the "face" of the western/cowboy culture and as such many people believe that the wild west was identical to the movies
He is incorrect about Tombstone. There were a few eye witnesses who were either new to Tombstone or just passing through and had no affiliation with either the Earps or the cowboys. Their testimony was critical in the court proceedings against Wyatt Earp that followed the shootout
I think he calls it ridiculous because of how exaggerated and bastardized Wild West culture was. I don’t think he dislikes a lot of the media, in fact he said The Searchers was a great movie but is able to distinguish what is authentic and what is not. He’s not LAME just because he’s giving his expertise.
@@sammcclain7532 He hated on almost everything, looked at buster scruggs with actual scrutiny and got numerous things wrong. The guy contradicts half of the things he says in this video. That's why hes lame, hes a bummer.
The idea that doc holiday was inaccurate with quickdraw so everyone was is just silly. The human brain can get extremely good at difficult tasks and some people have affinities for some things most men would call impossible. I’m not bullshitting when I say I can hipfire-QuickDraw a stick being thrown in the sky fairly regularly but miss fairly regularly aiming down sights at a stick set up as a still target.
The revolver being "...notoriously inaccurate..." ,and "...standing so far apart..." statement is bizarre and false. The 1851 Navy is perfectly capable of hitting a man sized target at 50 yards (or further). I understand that, in the movie, they're shooting from the hip- but the center circle of Sad Hill Cemetery is only around 30 yards across- and the actors were much closer together than the very outer perimeter.
I didn't even realize that it was so small, even though I've googled the location before (It's really cool) . But yeah, the camera is what makes them look so far away from each other.
Ironically lots of things are shown to have become close to reality. While alot of similar shows like Trek feel more fictional then reality when analyzed by lots of experts an scrutiny for our reality
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
15:19 To be very fair, West World is very much an intentional, fictional depiction of the wild west in a theme park context. Most of those characters are robots and historical accuracy would be just as important to the theme park owners as it would be to most hollywood movie producers.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
I@Potent_Techmology German immigrants weren't very accepting of Slavery in America, in fact, they were the first large ethnic group in America to oppose it, and were the most common Immigrant to be in the Union Army.
@@CommunityFan lol not even close!
The Polish community not only refused to have african colonies, which Germans genocided along with Poles and Jews, but after Napoleon freed a part of German controlled Poland, Polish soldiers went to Haiti to fight for their freedom after refusing to execute French plans of subjugation.
Kościuszko made out a will in which he left his American estate, including money owed to him by the U.S. government, to his friend Thomas Jefferson. He directed that the funds be used to purchase the freedom of enslaved African Americans and to provide them with education and land to support themselves. Which Jefferson refused to do...
You can just sense how many times this expert has had to give an exasperated explanation to someone who cowboys weren't ubercool badasses living in constant danger and near a gun fight at all time.
Cowboys remain ubercool, and remain badasses for the work they did and what they had to put up with. Many of them weren't armed with six-shooters though. Most of them didn't get into gunfights.
@@workingguy-OU812 What d'ya mean? Those guys were blasting each other, getting into tavern brawls, robbing banks, robbing trains, holding up stage coaches, shootin' rattlers and other varmits, making last members of extinct Indian tribes their blood-brothers, and fighting evil rail-road barons expanding into the wild, untamed West with silver-plated six-guns, wearing masks and living off the wilds. C'mon, this guy doesn't know squat.
@@workingguy-OU812 cowboys were originally irish not american....
@@mottthehoople693 "cowboys were originally irish not american" - American cowboys were from many countries, and some of them were of African descent.
@@workingguy-OU812 Im sure you are right...
I think that with the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, they were mimicking the samurai movie convention of drawing and killing with a single stroke of the katana.
They were re-making the actual damned truth. Everyone got into gun battles and each guy wearing a black cowboy hat had 7 lives, every guy with a white hat 9, and those in brown hats, 11. All of the graves on Boothill are empty. How else do you think they got all of those people to work on oil rigs these days? Cowboys. Every last one of them.
Ah, there was a duel like that in Seven Samurai, I never thought that the Mexican Standoff is basically the adaptation of two samurais running into each other and then only one left standing... Good catch!
Well, the first of the Dollars trilogy was definitely a samurai film (Yojimbo) remade. Don't know if the other two qualify, but the single strike kill definitely makes the gunmen in spaghetti westerns as deadly as a ronin with a katana. Everything is just threat and tension up to a certain point, but once the weapon is out, it must shed blood without mercy.
I still think it's the best Western. Realistic? Of course not. Who cares? Well, I guess a cowboy expert would...
Of course, they were.
I really appreciate how he's willing to kill certain myths about the West. Gives me the impression of someone who loves what he does and hates the fetishizing of the period
Hollywood not being historically accurate, who would have thought 😂
Iconoclastic myth-busters are the worst party poopers imaginable. I'm sure he tried telling everyone Santa isn't real, too. Well, he's a stinky dum-dum head, that's what.
How do you know he’s telling the truth?
@@hchwhat Exactly. Cowboys went around blasting everything and everyone. It was the wild West for crying out loud.
@@hchwhat historians generally do, not always granted, but generally, I would take his side before Hollywood anyday the week.
0:34 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly 4 Points
2:18 Django Unchained 5 Points
4:22 The Ballad of Buster Scruggs 7 Points
6:19 True Grit (2010) 7 Points
8:25 The magnificent Seven 4 Points
10:38 The Searchers 2 Points
13:30 "1883" E3 (2021) 7 Points
14:43 Westworld (2016) 3 Points
16:28 Dances with Wolfves 8 Points
18:00 The harder they fall 3 Points
20:11 "1883" E7 (2022) 4 Points
21:32 Tomstone (1993) 6 Points
22:38 Open Range 8 Points
THANK YOU
"They notice when you steal the whole herd" 😂 I laughed out LOUD
he seemed so done too XD
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
When they stole the entire herd, it was after they all had a natural disaster and after an Indian attack.
I'm pretty sure you would notice the whole herd was missing.
@@Potent_Techmologyhe said very specifically German immigrants aka ones who didn’t live in Germany anymore and didn’t decide German policy but ok go off
The thing that bothers me about the earlier 1950s and 60s westerns is that the actors are clean cut with short mid 20th century haircuts, rarely have beards, wore clean clothes with no tears, stains, patches. They all have the standard issue Stetson and neckerchief. Nothing at all like what you would expect for folks working hard, dirty, work with few luxuries and only occasionally getting the opportunity to clean up.
Right off the studio closets, uniform, pressed, clean and highly inaccurate!😜
That’s why spaghetti westerns, mostly Leone and Corbucci ones, are so cool
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmology Deutschland ist sehr super! Schweigen du schweinhund!
@@Potent_Techmology I wouldn't be surprised if some extra context was cut. My guess is that he's referring to how at that time, in those areas, German immigrants were largely Lutheran and therefore religiously/politically largely abolitionist. He's referring to just immigrants being anti-slavery ideologically (in a sort of insipid kind of way). That isn't to say that Germany didn't partake in the slave trade or that immigrants weren't racist AF. And they were absolutely heavy hitters in the colonization department I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
What a refreshing review. I'm of African and Indigenous ancestry, and I, too, found the inclusion, although fiction, of "Cherokee Bill" as an anti-hero horrendous. But to be precise, his family were not enslaved Cherokee Freedmen. His father was a much respected (even in post-US Civil War Texas) US Cavalry Buffalo Soldier who married a multi-ethnic Afro-Indian of African and Cherokee ancestry. He grew up with the best his family could afford, was educated more than most of his peers, and surpassed those of most minorities. He was raised spoiled and grew into a bully, then developed into a serial rapist. He befriended others of the same ilk, and they formed a loose gang that terrorized the Indian Territories. It mattered not if you were Indigenous, African American, White, Latin, or between. He and his gang were murderous rapists and thieves, and (he, from all accounts) felt no remorse and reveled in the pain and suffering they were responsible for.
I hope "Insider" brings Mr. Graurer back. I'd love to hear his critique on these movies: Sgt. Rutledge, Buck and the Preacher, Buffalo Soldiers, Ft. Apache, Silverado, and the Bass Reeves series.
Well said, Afro-indigenous depiction and representation in Hollywood is notoriously missing, as is the history in academia.
He went around blasting everyone, getting into gunfights at high noon and he robbed 37 banks before uncovering the ancient tomb of Random Bull where he discovered the feather of far-seeking. With that in his hat he road through the fluvial mists into the haunted dark where he dueled serpent men, witches, zombies, werewolves, and Mort-engine Jack himself.
Oh yes! I just rewatched Silverado the other day! Love that movie!
I haven't watched the Bass Reeves show, I've heard of him but know little, what your take, do you think its accurate ?
I'm from London, England and was brought up on westerns.
Really enjoyed The English with Emily Blunt but Unforgiven is my all time favourite.
@@matthewmckever2312 The old west was full of cowboys riding around blasting people at the drop of a hat for less than a nickel. You see a guy you don't like, you challenge him to a game of poker at the local saloon and one wrong move from that do-hickey of a goofball and you *_BLAST_* 'im! This guy complaining about the old western movies' inaccuracies is a big old party pooper. Cowboys rode around blasting everyone under the sun. They blasted buffalo, indians, other cowboys, even their own darned horses.
I like the graphic with the little arrow that pointed and said, “cowboy hat”.
I was so confused at what I was looking until it was shown..
I thought it was a shoe.
Same, I iniatially thought it was a Toyota RAV4. Good thing they added a description.
Graphic designers gotta eat too.
@@LSOP- What about shoe designers?
You do understand that the rest of the world might not be as familiar w/ a cowboy hat ?
The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum is really a great museum, with a truly world class collection. Good to see them and their staff being involved in a great series!
I like this guy. Knowledgable, straight to the point, and grounded in his lense of the real history/culture of the American west.
The photo at 14:56 is of the 9th Mississippi Infantry, encamped near Pensacola, Florida in 1861. This was my great-great-grandfather P.G. Palmer's unit. (Though grievously wounded with a minie ball through the mouth and jaw, P.G. survived the war and moved from Mississippi to Goldthwaite, Texas.) The soldiers, left to right are: Jason Peques, Kinloch Falconer, John Fennel, Jason Cunningham, Thomas W. Falconer, Jason Sims, and John T. Smith. Don't have the name of the soldier standing in the background behind Thomas Falconer.
Would love to see this man's take on Unforgiven, a movie specifically designed to subvert all of the typical Western tropes and present a more grounded take on what that time in American history was like.
That movie isn't free of tropes, but it's a good movie.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmology Germany did not have colonies in Africa until 1884, by that time both slavery and serfdom were long abolished.
@@Potent_TechmologyNot really. German immigrants to the United States from 1830 onwards were almost all abolitionists. In fact many were radical abolitionists who advocated a violent overthrow of the slave trade.
@@lavrentivs9891 Also that is the country of Germany which is different than what the historian was talking about.
The Comanche in Texas were no joke. They were absolutely winning until the invention of the repeating rifle! Brutal fighting on both sides. Wearing each others skins!
I have made a comment about this video. One thing about Townsfolk fighting back the Historian mention, is that he forgets that when Jesse James and the Cole Younger gang hit the Northfield Minnesota bank, it was the town folks who also pulled out their privately owned fire arms and blasted the heck out of the gang.
For that matter, most towns couldn't afford to keep a large contingent of full-time law-enforcement. Anything more serious than day-to-day peacekeeping usually relied on citizens volunteering. Just because they don't always carry their guns everywhere doesn't mean they don't have them tucked away somewhere easy-to-reach.
Nice to see Open Range getting some appreciation
Best western imo
@kyleromo1991 it's so great
Is it worth pointing out that The Good, the Bad and the Ugly takes place during the Civil War and that all the characters had plenty of opportunities to loot weapons and ammunitions during their various run-ins with both sides, even discounting that they spend some time as paramilitaries and in Angel Eyes' case, a uniformed officer? Being "armed to the teeth all the time" perhaps makes more sense in that context than it would otherwise.
Not that that movie is even really supposed to be an accurate representation of anything: I think Leone confirmed that characters in the movie have no peripheral vision beyond what the camera shows.
Also, a lot of Spagheti Westerns were more inspired by Kurosawa than reallity.
I love how Blondie and Tuco somehow wander right into a major Union encampment and have no idea until the soldiers find them.
If the 1860's weren't like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, then they must have really sucked.
@@hypothalapotamus5293 yeah, a Fistful of Dollars is basically a remake of Yojimbo, who itself is a very loose Japanese adaptation of Glass Key, a noir film based on story by Dashiell Hammett, the Maltese Falcon author.
Everything about that film is parody. That's really the only way to view it, with virtually every western trope played out. Leone said as much about that, as well.
I really wanted him to react to that part in back to the future 😂.
basically 1930s tropes like he mentioned in the The Ballad of Buster Scruggs
What I was _really_ hoping for was commentary on A Million Ways to Die in the West!
YOU'RE AWESOME BROTHER!!!!
I/WE THANK YOU IMMENSELY DARLIN!!!!
I'M 60 AND STILL LOVE OLD WESTERN MOVIES!!!!!! ESPECIALLY JOHN WAYNE❤❤❤❤❤❤
Was honestly expecting to see Lonesome Dove in this but I can't argue against Open Range.
Revolvers of the time weren't inherently inaccurate as he claims. It was the use of black powder and little tiny sights you can barely use the that made them harder to use. Plenty of western figures had near legendary reputations for marksmanship.
That's why they were "legendary"
Their ability was beyond the average!
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
Yes! Like Annie Oakley for an example. Even though she worked in the Buffalo Bill Wild west shows. She's super amazing! :D
@@Potent_Techmology They're talking about Germans in the US who were largely against slavery. And the German states involvement in slavery were limited and short due to the competition from other European powers like the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese.
Germany did have colonies but these were involved mostly in the post slavery era
@@LilRebelYell no, they weren't
Germany literally had slave trade in the caribbean and in african colonies but ya, less than others
They also genocided Slavs and Jews, and propped up the Soviet government and started WWI and WWII
I'd be interested to see his take on the 'Deadwood' tv series
It sssssssuuuuuuuxxxxxxxxx
And "Unforgiven".
Its more or less based on pulp novels
And Yellowstone!!
I would too. Let us remember that Milch wasn't trying to make an accurate history, but he does contend that his dialogue would have been more representative of the way he believes people spoke (based on letters from the era) as opposed to the John Wayne style laconic cowboy/gun fighter. I'd love to hear this guy's opinion on the accuracy of that.
Fun fact about the trope of teaching the townsfolk to defend themselves...that actually comes from Magnificent 7's primary inspiration, Kurosawa's _Seven Samurai!_ The movie that popularized it was borrowing it from a completely different setting.
Then there's the infamous Yojimbo/For a Fistful of Dollars situation too. A lot of those grittier westerns that came out in the 60's and beyond were really samurai movies set in the American west. Even the characters are similar - the lone wandering outlaw gunman/bounty hunter compared to the lone wandering jobless samurai. Lots of overlap.
@@blakeprocter5818 It's really fun seeing all of the ways that samurai films and cowboy films inspired each other. It's like seeing a snapshot of the creative process.
@@TehNoobiness It is interesting. Have you seen the film Red Sun? That actually crosses both genres, starring Charles Bronson and Toshiro Mifune as an unlikely duo. Not the most sophisticated western, or the most innovatively shot, but very fun. Really cool west meets east movie with two of the iconic stars from both genres.
@@blakeprocter5818 I haven't! I'm more familiar with westerns than with samurai films, and tbh I need to watch more of both
Everything was full circle though. Kurosawa cited American westerns as major influences for his samurai films.
0:49 American in Japan: It's an interesting parallel. The mythology is that every samurai was a master swordsman who could do magical things with their sword and technique. That's complete BS. Just like soldiers in the US military today, most were just GI samurai, and some were "Lords." Especially when we're talking lords, we're really talking about administrative roles, like Congressmen, Mayors, and Governors. They managed their districts and constituents, but in battle, they had their own specialties, which often weren't swords much less specifically katana--the basic sidearm, the Colt 45 of samurai. Carrying two swords was more like a police officer carrying a badge or the rank pins on an officer's lapel. They were archers, spear specialists, late in the time of the samurai some were specialists in firearms and cannons.
Hope this guy comes back and rates some more Western movies / shows
This was so fascinating to watch! Thank you Mr. Grauer, and Insider! 🙏
Love this! One of the best commentaries I've heard recently. Love the perspective from a true historian; really interesting!
no Blazing Saddles?? i wanna know if Count Basie really had a band stand in the desert!!!
Town brawls breaking out into Hollywood studio commissaries were quite common back then.
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@erakfishfishfish fact.
I'm guessing this guy doesn't have a sense of humor.
This is one of the best series on the RUclips.
THE youtube?
@@TehSawnderz on the youtubes
The monkey one was pretty bad
"Only outlaws and law enforcement carried guns back then" in a movie about outlaws and lawmen facing each other... i swear sometimes these experts just object to scenes because they know they are suppoused to.
He's not wrong about the myth, people come to Texas these days expecting the same thing. There's more guns per person now than there ever was.
I'd say there were more rifles and shotguns than pistols as these had more utilitarian use than short range side arms.
Yup, and like saying "this bounty is very high" in a scene where that's THE ENTIRE POINT.
Well, and it's not as clear cut as all that either. A lot of the "no carrying guns" rules in various towns applied only to the saloon district and/or only to non-residents. And while there were towns that had such rules, there were also towns that did not.
And duels in the street did happen on occasion in some places, and a duel that both parties engaged in voluntarily was generally treated very differently from a murder. But any duelists would most definitely be held responsible for property damage and the safety of bystanders if they decided to have it out in a public place.
Hollywood mostly just takes uncommon, but dramatic happenings and puts them in every movie.
Oh, and he's wrong about the pistols of the era being "notoriously inaccurate." It's just that they were pistols, not rifles. But you can find plenty of historically verifiable accounts of good shooting with them. Also bad shooting. I ran across a period review of the Colt Dragoon pistol at one point. The experienced shooter who wrote it considered managing to keep 12 shots on a 10ft diameter target to be "adequate"... At 400 yards... 4MOA with a pistol is pretty good, even by modern standards.
@@Native_Creation There are* more guns per person ...
I knew Open Range would have get the credit It deserves! Still my favourite western movie today!
One of my favorite "Western Debates" is when did the Wild West actually end: Was it 1900? Was it 1910? 1920? Or did it all just fade away gradually?
as far as gun fights go, most states had established law and order earlier than 1900, in fact closer to 1880. by 1890 there were 2 states left with some "wild west " in them. utah, which was more fully settled down during the 1890s, and arizona, which remained somewhat wild west-like until about 1925. the extreme majority of what we would call "wild west" took place between the late 1860s and 1881. and only in the WEST. the northeast was civilized far earlier. many of the firearms we see used in these films originated in the 1870s. (colt saa and winchester 73 were both from 1873) so for an accurate movie that wanted to use the correct guns, and didnt put things in the wrong time frame it would be a narrow time period indeed. season 1 of deadwood (mid1876 to mid 1877) is nearly pure fact. seasons 2 and 3 are made up, because the truth is that law and order took hold there after about 1 year.
@@ice-iu3vvI was also going to reference Deadwood haha but I wouldn't have been able to recall any dates etc
I say 1890
@@ice-iu3vv Wow, fascinating! Thanks for your commentary. 🙂
I think the greatest misconception about the Wild West is how long (or short) it actually was.
1860/1865 - 1890/1920
So from 25 to 60 years, and that's really generous.
I have to call bs on the range remarks. Wild Bill shot David Tutt in the chest at 75 yards with his revolver. Now that's not easy, but to say it's impossible is kinda unacceptable from a historian.
Also, a gatling gun had an effective range of up to 200-3500 yards, depending on the model at time in the 1800s.
Useless information for 99% of people who DGAF how large is your yard. Use bananas for scale if you're so afraid of metric system.
@@KasumiRINAwow, typical salty euro poor
@@KasumiRINA F*ck off, dude. I use metric system as well but people can output whatever information they have at hand and are familiar with. Just learn you own damn self, a yard is about 90cm. If you don't wanna learn, Google. Yes metric is objectively the best system but just accept that some people are used to imperial for historical reasons.
Yeah. His knowledge of firearms is not good.
@@KasumiRINA A meter is 8.5cm longer. So 182 to 3200 meters...
Yeah, for basic conversations like this that don't need precision you can pretty much use them interchangeably...
Do note that they tried to define the meter as a fraction of the earth's circumference in order to make navigation easy... But they screwed it up and the margin of error on the meter is substantially worse than for the yard.
You'll find lots of us Americans aren't afraid of metric at all. We just added it to our pile of available units and use whichever ones make the measuring and/or math easiest. Thirds and halves are way easier to eyeball than the fifths and halves you need for fieldwork in metric.
I wanted him to rate 3:10 to yuma i hope he gets a 2nd part. great content!!
Would appreciate his take on Lonesome Dove. Well done.
Some of those confederates that left the states after the war, instead of going back across the border, they continued south and there is a town in Brazil that was settled by ex-confederates
As a big fan of western and cowboy movies, I throughly enjoyed this video. Hope there’s a sequel
Recommend all the western movies you liked
1:48 didn’t they have someone come on in another video who’s entire thing is she does QuickDraw competition shooting with accuracy?
It's become a thing in the modern day partly due to these films
One comment about swinging doors. The Bruin Inn, St Albert, Alberta is the oldest bar in western Canada and it had swinging doors. The bar was opened in the last 1800's. Oh, and on a Saturday night, prepare to enjoy the fights.
Unless I'm wrong, the bar was built in 1929, and was demolished over 20 years ago
And I can't find any photos of swing doors, or even a wide doorway to accommodate them
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
Yes! The swinging doors are a REAL thing in the west. I looked it up! It was used for ventilation from nasty smells and the heat, They has secondary full-size doors used to lock the the saloons when not in business. :D
@@Potent_Techmology Hey buddy, you need to get back on your meds.
@@kevincornell8038 uh huh, why's that?
Kevin Costner is so underrated and underappriciated for making some of the most accurate Westerns ever made. His attention to history & details, and his sensitivity to the Native Americans representation-no one in the industry is doing it like him.
14:42 It’s funny that you mentioned “Renegade Confederates,” in the Rockstar Video Game, “Red Dead Redemption 2,” there’s a featured Outlaw Gang that consisted of Former Confederate soldiers. You can tell that the Game’s creators went all out to make the game as accurate as possible, when it comes to the Wild West.
I really hope Insider will have him do a deep-dive into Red Dead Redemption 2.
It would be interesting to hear what an expert has to say about the definitive cowboy/outlaw game. It all feels very realistic and very natural, and Rockstar does their research. I think it would be a very entertaining video.
Also, missed opportunity to have this legend react to "A Million Ways to Die in the West". As unrealistic as it is, it shows some of the daily frontier life to a certain extend, instead of what you usually see in a cowboy movie. Again, very unrealistically, but mister Grauer can then explain what daily life was really like. It is also a very funny movie in my opinion.
@@dvaunt3516all genres is pushing it 😂
@@13YoJest13 I agree with Vaunt. It is a masterpiece regardless of genre. The storytelling, character development, world building and atmosphere are something most movies, tv shows, games and books can only dream off.
It kind of doesn't matter what genre it is, if it this good. It it not king of all genres as there is entertainment on par with RDR2, or better, but in my opinion it is up there with the greats.
The Comanches went "full regalia". Nice throwback to Django Unchained, even if accidental. lol
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
@@Potent_Techmologyhe's probably meaning the common German immigrants to the u.s which given European tradition usually immigrated for religious reasons or because their lives were less than fruitful in their home country therfore many of them would be educated to some degree atleast and would more than likely have a more unionst or independence driven views on America as whole which probably generally influenced atleast the immigrating Germans to on a very broad yet not exact level be more often than not pro abolition infact historicaly germans readily immigrated to northern Mexico after the banning and illegalization of slavery (they were probably weirdly racist and or held prejudice views as did many abolotionists and anti slavery movement groups/people regarldess of creed or color but again probably morw in a weird time period and region specific ways usually towards those of the "old world "and generally more often other Europeans)
@@Potent_Techmologyyeah we get it you mor**
@@Potent_TechmologyThe German empire did. But it the average German would never see the colonies. The Americans were used to black slaves being sold in their towns. Big difference.
@@Hellomynameis93 the average German subjugated Poles, Ukrainians, Slavic Jews, for centuries
really competent presenter, lovely interview
16:49 I love the dances with wolves movie but I think it's so cool that one of my great uncles had buffalo that was used in this movie. Unfortunately he has since passed away and not sure if those buffalo are still around.
I think Tarratino increased the bounty between today's money and money value back then to give it the value expected from the audience.
This guy should have critiqued DU for the eyewear(wasn't available then) and the use of dynamite(again, unavailable)
There's others but life is short.
@@LilRebelYellto be fair, Tarantino hasn’t let accuracy get in the way of a good story.
@@erakfishfishfish what I love in Quentin's movies is they work on the rule of cool and "what audience wants", my fav part is how the girls do with the killer in Death Proof. The villain isn't arrested or falls on glass as hero is stretching his hand to save the bad guy, he just gets DESTROYED... he also killed Hitler, had a stuntman take revenge on Bruce Lee for abusing them, and used flamwthrower on the Manson family... Oh and Bruce Willis just picks a katana over other weapons because that's how we like it.
14:52 I live in Texas and I often take drives within the state and in rural areas the confederate flags are still waving proudly for all to see.
Lol
It’s the wild wild Wild West cowboys expert time my bois!
You left out "Blazing Saddles." !!!!!😁
A lot of the stuff he "corrects" in the movies is simply wrong or at the very least not expanded on as it should be. A simple example is the swinging doors. Most had them, but they also had regular doors. The swing doors were to let smoke out but still have coverage.
Thank you! :D
Says "you'd be arrested for shooting someone" followed by "there werent enough lawmen around" lol
I’m sure there were plenty of lawmen in the cities but chase and catch who could get away probably needed bounty hunters
@@KingNerdiusthere were also entire cities that were lawless.
@@deputydang8291 Actual cities were not lawless. They may or may not have had patrolmen, but they all had some form of law enforcement in place.
@christopherjahn2044 wrong, cities like Dodge city and Calico for example were both lawless for a periods of time.
@@deputydang8291 they were not cities, they were small towns that put "city" in their names. Delusions of grandeur.
Thank you for setting the record straight. 👍
This was awesome. Please have him come back to do more reviews
Please don't.
Not sure I understand the criticism of the characters being armed to the teeth in the Good the Bad and the Ugly - they are all outlaws, and Angel Eyes also works for the army - they are precisely the people he said would be armed to the teeth
With revolvers that were new and unreliable technology???
@@realtalk6195 wonder what the first production line was invited for here in USA 🤔
Colt right any bells
and also Germans partook in slavery and colonization
what BS to say "to a person were abolitionists" when they literally had African and Caribbean colonies and partook in the Atlantic slave trade
I feel like this interview got cut up in a weird way. Some of his statements have their explanations cut out and things. I wouldn’t read into it too much.
@@realtalk6195 the colt navy revolver (1851) was around for 10 years at the start of the civil war
i think everyone knows now that cowboys and Indians didn't slaughter each other ever chance they get but its really fun to see Indians vs cowboys in shows and movies ( my opinion)
As soon as I saw that covered wagon I knew somebody was going to die of dysentery.
great video! very informative
"There were firearms in the west, but not nearly as many..." as modern Texans want you to believe.
I'm pretty sure most of the firearms were concentrated on the frontier territories and among travelers, in towns people (I think) rely on law enforcement
We have nearly comprehensive records of what the gun laws were in most major frontier towns. Gun checks became nearly universal in the 1870s-80s. Some working cowboys did start to wear the open-holster cartridge gunbelts in the 1880s, but in response to fashion, not practicality. Maybe one in twenty wearers had any shooting skill, as ammunition was expensive. Most firearms incidents in cowtowns involved negligent discharges by people who snuck guns in or by people in private homes.
@@maotisjan "firearms" in that sense were typically muskets and hunting rifles. Everything else were in military armories or with lawmen, so very hard to come by.
@@Native_Creation ? no, if you look at a catalogue from the 1890s, you'll see all types of guns for sale, including repeaters, shot guns, and revolvers. muskets were long out of date. additionally, military-style firearms were considered to be appropriate for a civilian to own, as evidenced by the later united states vs. miller case. interestingly, the case determined that a firearm was only reasonable to own if its use had precedence in a military context.
@@Native_CreationGetting a firearm was only limited by one's purse or desire.
The idea the government could limit your right is a 20th century fiction.
Great video. Michael, thank you for uploading. Lots of great myths blown out of the water here. The gun myth deserves special attention. Not everyone carried a gun, and those who did were mostly criminals. Fast forward 170 years and every man and his dog packs a weapon of some description. Guns and gun-fighters are essential elements of the Western genre and wouldn’t be the same without them but we have to be able to separate fact from fiction at some point. I grew up on a steady diet of American westerns but it wasn’t until many years later when I realised some things weren't quite right, like how First Nations were portrayed in movies.
Please bring Michael back, I like him.
Love to hear this guy's take on Blood Meridian
As far as the whole covered wagon thing goes, I never saw when that scene is supposed to take place. If it’s before the rail road, then it makes more sense. And I don’t know if they still would’ve used covered wagons to get to certain spots where the railroad just hadn’t gotten yet.
They explicitly mention the railroad going to the west coast in the show I believe they just say it’s extremely cost prohibitive, $700 is sticking in my head I believe.
My understanding is that most places just stayed very underpopulated, if not unpopulated altogether, until a railway was built. Speaking generally, not specific to the movie scene. Also not necessarily places that were accessible from a Pacific port.
Sorry, *in the west.
I always get a chuckle from that river fight scene in The Searchers. As noted, it's based on Cynthia Ann Parker, who was taken from Fort Parker, TX just NE of me. That river is probably the Brazos river, and to this day you need a machete to get down to the banks. But John Ford loved Monument Valley. BTW, Parker was the mother of Quanah Parker, the last chief of the Comanches (son of Peta Nocona, namesake of the town and boots). He became a wealthy rancher, and represented the Comanches to the Feds in arguing for their rights, and even became a sheriff in Oklahoma.
Holy moly a person who isn't on the west coast but says Oregon correctly!
Same with Nevada lol
@@cort_temperedthe local Nevada pronunciation is to de-Latinize the word....not really "correct"
Cope. I guess you would tell the Japanese how they mispronounce McDonald's?@@horacio-ho3bf
@@horacio-ho3bf generally, the right way to call something is how locals do, it's not about the rules, but like, basic respect.
Finally a true expert debunks all these ignorant movie Western Movie tropes that have been repeated so often, many believe them to be historically accurate.
My heartfelt thanks to Michael Grauer.
Now Insider get me another expert to debunk policemen drawing guns everywhere, peanut eating elephants, horned viking helmets, banana eating monkeys, car keys on suns vizor, slipping on banana peel, outrunning an explosion, et cetera pp ...
Hes wrong about the swinging doors - They were used as sight protection, to let out the tobacco smoke - after hinges were invented
I always highly suggest the Cowboy and Western Heritage museum, if people visit Oklahoma City. Great museum, people should also check out the First American Museums.
Came to the comments for this, the batwing doors were very much a thing.
No, he was quite right. They weren't invented until some time in the 1870s and they were hardly ubiquitous. He didn't say they didn't exist, just that they were not that common, which is true.
@@seneschal4617 fair, I agree in them likely not being as prevalent as old western films imply, I took his comment though as that it was a Hollywood invention.
Weren't hinges invented in the Bronze Age?
This was a super guest. I might also recommend Stephen Aron, of the Autry Museum. He was my professor in university and he is a fantastic communicator.
Good video, however have to disagree (partially) with the fact that the weapons of the period were patently inaccurate. A good portion of them were not particularly accurate, however the 1873 Colt Single Action Army, the Volcanic and afterward Henry Rifle, 1866 Yellowboy, and 1873 Winchester as well as the 1873 and 1884 Trapdoor Springfield rifles, Sharps rifles had a reputation for good accuracy. The Henry .44 Rimfire was not a powerhouse cartridge, but it accounted for itself in the civil war and after. Two civilians, James Wheatley and Isaac Fisher who were present at the Fetterman Massacre were armed with Henry Rifles and gave a good account of themselves until they ran out of ammunition and were ultimately killed.
The Springfield Trapdoor Cavalry carbine was calibrated for 500 yard shot accuracy using the Buffington rear sight. The advent of the centerfire 44/40 cartridge greatly improved both the reliability and accuracy of 19th century arms chambered for that cartridge.
The gunfight in the alley by the OK Corral between the Earp's and the Cowboys revealed a political divide in Tombstone between the Democrats (cowboys) and Republicans (Earps with the possible exception of Holliday who was a southern sympathizer). The Democrats were made up of mostly southern sympathizers who favored the south during the recent American Civil War while the Republicans favored the Union cause. Tombstone had two newspapers, one favoring the Democrat politic and the other the Republican politic.
All of the players however hand a hand in criminal activity at one time or another.
Clicked this accidentally but glad I stayed to the end as The Cowboys is a favorite. One quibble: Mr. Grauer mentions how some hand-picked lawmen used to enforce the law selectively. I remove the "used to".
I think the Westworld scene needs the caveat that everyone pictured is either a rich tourist or a robot acting out narrative, written in-universe by a grandiose Englishman, that had little to no intended historical accuracy.
Yeah, very important to note this, it is set in the future where there is a theme park carciature of the old west being used to entertain people.
It would be like judging medieval life by going to the Snow White part of Disney World.
seriously how stupid is it to criticise a science fiction satirical depiction of all the cliches, tropes and caricatures of Westerns, made for tourists to live out their fantasy, expressly NOT historical but a video game of sorts. That's like criticising GTA 5 for being too exaggerated of real life crime.
I really like Open Range. Even if the final gunfight is over-the-top, the still made it a point to demonstrate how rare they were with the discussion between Boss and Charley. They weren't depicted as battle-hardened gunfighters per the usual stereotype.
Bro, the GBU is a classic. They are 3 gunfighters. The whole movie is more than this scene. It also takes place during the Civil War. Everyone was armed.
He probably said as much in the 3 hour version they cut to 20 minutes. Blame the editor or the uploader. This was very choppily edited.
And yet far from an accurate depiction of the times...
The idea that people didn't regularly carry weapons is so patently false I don't understand how any self-respecting Western historian makes that claim. Being a pioneer family, we still have guns that my great-great-grandfather owned. This is not uncommon with other families throughout the 'West,' They extrapolate two primary sources where as the 'open' carry of firearms was strictly prohibited. Logic would say that there are more than two towns in the West, and most people didn't live in a town. This isn't to say that all pioneers were gunslingers but upwards of 90 percent of them owned and regularly carried firearms. I am tired of historians making that claim when a million primary documents point to the opposite being true, like at the beginning of the Nez Perce war pioneers murdered a native with a gun. They were not lawmen rather prospectors, its crazy how one paper made from a shaky premise spread like wildfire through academia.
Thank you for that info! :)
Most or at least "All" towns don't allowed guns within the area. They were be taken to the Sheriff station or something like that for inspection. I imagine outside of towns, they're used for hunting, Survival, Etc. Is that correct?
I would love to see someone react to Billy the Kid and Godless - two really good modern adaptations
"This is laughable, they'd never have guns unless they were lawmen, bounty hunters or criminals" - Charterers he's talking about: 2 bounty hunters and a criminal.
He is a historian. Documentation is everything, and gun owners are the most law-abiding group of people and wouldn't create a lot of documents with criminal accusations
@@leejohnson3270 ah yes, as he said, outlaws, the famously most law abiding group that ever grouped.
@KasumiRINA Cowboy became a thing around the early 16th century, and the earliest set of data I can find is in 17th century where it says about 50%-74% of people owned guns (even if we excluded female who I believe it was illegal for then to own firearms) that is still a large amount of the population, if you consider them all criminals there is literally no way we would still exist in a country today... or do you think that a country can survive with a larger criminal group, then they have an agricultural group?
@@leejohnson3270umm, yeah, it's absolutely possible. Take Australia for example, it literally started off as a Penal Colony, a "wasteland" prison for the undesirables. So yeah, you absolutely can have a country based on a criminal population. In fact, the United States was considered to be criminals during the Revolutionary war based on the fact that we rebelled against the Crown and overthrew the Crowns reach of the original colony's.
Great insight. Next time, maybe "Unforgiven" and "Little Big Man."
There's probably no greater part of American history where the popular psyche and historical reality diverge greater than with the American West. I appreciate it whenever people like Michael Grauer take the time to try and bring light to the true, and still epic, history rather than double down on the false mythmaking of the early 20th century.
The handguns in the old West were pretty amazing. You could get off at least 100 shots in rapid secession before you needed to reload!
Please bring representatives of different tribes to comment on Native American depictions in Hollywood.
As someone born and raised in Texas, and who's been a cowboy extra (AMC's "The Son"), he had some good facts on Cowboys, I think he could have expanded that Cowboy culture itself, which technically came from Mexico/New Spain, originated from Spanish Vaquero traditions.
San Antonio is considered the birthplace of the Cowboy (though there's other contenders). I'm not sure what he means on the lasso being tied to Africa, but the Soldados de Cuera on the Northern frontier incorporated North African traditions. Their specific techniques developed in Texas and New Spain however.
I just watched Wild Wild West and that was pretty intuitive and eye opening on things I never knew happened back then. Like the armored tank and a guy with a steam powered wheelchair
Knowing a bit about firearms... There's not TOO terribly much difference between revolver guns in the 1800s Western US an similar countries AND most modern revolvers today since you got to make them in much same way... So what makes 1800s guns so "notoriously inaccurate" but plenty modern made ones DEADLY accurate.. save for the shooters and the materials used? Something feels off with that somehow.. dunno
ALSO.. was I only one got the impression the hero Indian an Lt Bad Guy Indian from opposite tribes ENTIRELY. Wasn't it one was Apache an other Comanche or the 2 ACTUALLY most warlike tribes from the plains region which was Massive in this time period
Probably the black powder, spherical bullets and lower quality tolerences.
great stuff as always
This dude is trying so hard to crush and push his “knowledge” he is not even realizing the plots of the movies. “Only bad guys and law men carried a gun” as we watch movies about outlaws and lawmen cause that was the whole point of Clint Eastwood movies and most westerns 🤦🏻♂️
Especially about West World, where the plot is a fictional western styled theme park with robots playing characters. "4 armed robbers are gonna rob a contingent of soldiers, it doesn't make any sense" Well if you're a visitor in that theme park, playing an outlaw and robbing an army transport with your buddies sounds like a fun thing to do imo.
@@BamBamGT1 yeah it’s like he’s watch the searchers with John Wayne saying fights between cowboys and Indians never happened. But John W. Is a ex confederate soldier. Not a cowboy. He’s just dressed like one. This dudes just dumb.
@@BamBamGT1 Yeah, and it seems like he never heard of Ned Kelley, who did that kind of crazy in real life...
Australia rather than the western USA though.
For real. That honestly should be mainstream knowledge for any old west historian, because there are strong similarities between the Old West of the United States, and the early days of the Australian outback.
Well hes still being told to talk about whether they are accurate or not, so he doesnt have to factor in the plot. I'm sure he's well aware of most of these movie plot lines and what those lines try to accomplish. Yet these movies have become the "face" of the western/cowboy culture and as such many people believe that the wild west was identical to the movies
He is incorrect about Tombstone. There were a few eye witnesses who were either new to Tombstone or just passing through and had no affiliation with either the Earps or the cowboys. Their testimony was critical in the court proceedings against Wyatt Earp that followed the shootout
He’s incorrect about a lot of things. He’s not very knowledgeable in my opinion
Should have had him review Brokeback Mountain
I would love to see more on his opinions of 1883. Such a great miniseries.
So basically every cool thing that we find fascinating about the Wild West simply is “ridiculous”
lol
Agreed this man is super lame
I think he calls it ridiculous because of how exaggerated and bastardized Wild West culture was. I don’t think he dislikes a lot of the media, in fact he said The Searchers was a great movie but is able to distinguish what is authentic and what is not. He’s not LAME just because he’s giving his expertise.
@@sammcclain7532 He hated on almost everything, looked at buster scruggs with actual scrutiny and got numerous things wrong. The guy contradicts half of the things he says in this video. That's why hes lame, hes a bummer.
@@deputydang8291 You have consistently shown negativity on most replies I've seen on this video, some with two days space.
Grow up.
Open Range is one of my ALL TIME favorite movies!
Outlwaws who reinvented themselves as lawmen... Wyatt Erp, I believe?
The idea that doc holiday was inaccurate with quickdraw so everyone was is just silly. The human brain can get extremely good at difficult tasks and some people have affinities for some things most men would call impossible. I’m not bullshitting when I say I can hipfire-QuickDraw a stick being thrown in the sky fairly regularly but miss fairly regularly aiming down sights at a stick set up as a still target.
Revolvers are definitely not inaccurate, this guy may be a cowboy expert but a firearms expert he is not. See Jerry Miculek for reference.
He doesn’t know anything about firearms obviously
he is an expert at taking tickets at a cowboy museum, period, I doubt he ever sat on a horse
Great to see that Jacob survived being poisoned by Darlene after all.
The Magnificent Seven remake is a remake of Kurosawa. And on what planet do you review it rather than either of its predecessors???
holy crap one thousand five hundred yards with that rifle....thats beyond impressive honestly thats legendary in its own right
He must not have been a Civil War historian. Good, Bad, and the Ugly followed in the wake of a military campaign between the north and the south.
True, but it is somewhat poor representation of the Battle of Glorieta Pass. I've walked a bit of that battlefield
The revolver being "...notoriously inaccurate..." ,and "...standing so far apart..." statement is bizarre and false. The 1851 Navy is perfectly capable of hitting a man sized target at 50 yards (or further). I understand that, in the movie, they're shooting from the hip- but the center circle of Sad Hill Cemetery is only around 30 yards across- and the actors were much closer together than the very outer perimeter.
Colt Single Action Army 1930s ;)
I stopped watching at that point. I'm a mid range shooter and can hit at that range every time.
I didn't even realize that it was so small, even though I've googled the location before (It's really cool) . But yeah, the camera is what makes them look so far away from each other.
Need to bring this gentleman back to do an entire review of Tombstone!
"Germans didn't believe in slavery at all" At the time, at least..
Ultra fascinating doc.
Wait till these people find out that star wars does not accurately reflect space travel
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Ironically lots of things are shown to have become close to reality. While alot of similar shows like Trek feel more fictional then reality when analyzed by lots of experts an scrutiny for our reality
You leave star wars out of that
@@andrewstevenson118like sound space you can't hear sound cause vacuum and sound travel and I there no reciever to bounce back
Not current forms of our space travel.
The documentaries clearly stated at the beginning “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…”