Pinion’s NEW E-Drive Powertrain Explained
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Could Pinion’s new E-Drive powertrain be the future transmission of electric bikes?
Released today, the new E-Drive Motor Gearbox, or MGU, combines Pinion’s gearbox technology with a powerful electric motor into one compact unit and shifts wirelessly with a sleek electronic trigger shifter.
The brand claims the E-Drive MGU is almost maintenance-free, only needing an internal oil change every 10,000km, making it ideal for a range of electric bike applications.
Pinion says it can shift smoothly under load, which would be a big improvement over Pinion’s existing gearboxes, where you have to ease off the pedals in order to shift.
These are just some of the bold claims Pinion makes about E-Drive, so dive in for a full lowdown on this cutting-edge new tech.
Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:28 Gearboxes
02:55 Pinion E-Drive MGU
04:18 How Does It Work?
07:02 Gear Range And Wireless Shifting
09:08 Batteries And Displays
10:25 Which Bikes Will It Be On?
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This is truly incredible. If they deliver, they may just have killed detailleur, chain, drivetrain maintenance, automated shifting needs for most people while drastically improving rear suspensions dynamics by reducing unsprung mass. Can't wait for the long term reviews!
I agree, this tech looks excellent. Reliability, repairability and cost are all key points I'm keen to find out.
So many benefits as you say! Less maintenance, auto shifting, better suspension performance... we're looking forward to letting you all know how it rides!
Except Neko Mullaly in Frameworks said that massive reduction in unsprung rear suspension mass didn't improve in timed runs.
@@smin4089 feel is more important for 99% of us than the clock isn't it, that would be enough for me if i have the same times but a better feel
It is what I have been waiting for, but no way is this going to kill the derailleur and chain. It is far too expensive for the average e-bike.
Finally an internal gearbox and motor setup with a belt drive. This is what I’ve been waiting for on e bike market.
No more derailleur and chain to constantly maintain. I want to ride one .
Could be the future, we're excited to give them a try!
I agree…
Tried it er not so fast with the hope and enthusiasm. Gear change between clusters 4/5 and 8/9 need work and those who have tried it also are keen to point out this is generation 1. After my ride I wondered whether I would buy a SACHS RS motored NOX 112Nm with chain or wait for this MGU to be improved. still undecided
This is the future of e-bikes
Could well be, we'll wait and see!
This is the future of bikes, once the batteries are the size of a cigarette lighter.
This is the future of expensive e-bikes. Normal e-bikes will stay with derailleurs just as normal bicycles stay with other cheaper technologies.
@@trekkeruss it's expensive now, it won't be in a while. Once people understand that you don't need to have a heavy rear wheel with a cassette and a derailleur gearbox is the way. And if you can have a motor with the gearbox then why would you ride a normal bike if the weight is almost the same and you can ride much faster and pedal up stuff you couldn't on a normal bike. Once the batteries are the size of a cigarette lighter.
@@c3N3q What makes you think the price is going to come down? It is a high performance product made by ex-Porsche people. Have Porsche’s gotten cheaper?
Pinion is finally getting the attention/respect for their amazing engineering
This is the exact belt drive system I am looking for. Gone are the days of dealing with grease and derailleur adjustment.
There's a lot of benefits for sure! No more mucky jeans from a greasy chain!
Wow! Excited about the future of the e-bike now. This could be a big turning point.
Yep, we think this could make some serious ripples in the e-bike world!
The Bike industry should come up with a standard bottom bracket design that will accommodate mechanicals like the Bosch e drive, Befang Pinion etc, but they won't.
Yes this, or something like it is the future for many bikes given that derailleurs are heavily optimised for various flavours of race, something for smaller wheels and getting around, the only problem is the rate to which eBikes get stollen.
All it would take to sort that is an E tag or something similar
Wouldn't it be nice for the industry to collaborate on a single standard... paging SRAM for a UGH (Universal Gearbox Hanger) interface!
While they're at it, standardize batteries.
I have waited for years for this. Thank you Pinion!
Sounds like a lot of people have! Pinion could be on to something here!
This really looks like an impressive package. Maybe electric bikes will become a little too good and powerfull, but I really dig the technology and integration. Yet I would like to stick to analog bikes for now. I imagine the prices will be eye watering too.
The technology is certainly impressive and if Pinion can make their regular gearboxes shift under load, that could be a real step forward for non-ebikes as well.
Almost any high-end bikes price is potentially eye-watering these days!
@@bikeradar Effigear will shift into a harder gear under full load but will not shift to an easier gear unless torque is completely removed from the system. This is because its pawls can operate independently. Only a matter of time before they put a motor on theirs. Pinion will have something in the software that will back drive engagement off when changing gear.
I just recently bought a Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH. It’s awesome. I bought knowing it’s already obsolete technology. I was aware of the Pinion technology. This drivetrain blows the Vado’s outta the water. The Vado is, to me, the make-do bike between now and when the Pinion tech is widely available. My next urban/tour e-bike will have this type of technology. It’s def the future.
I've been riding a pinion 12 spd mtb bikepacking rig for over a year now. I agree with the gripshift being less than ideal, however it doesn't shift worse than a derailer under load, in fact I think better, gears 4-5 and 8-9 require a bit more let-off, but the ability to change gears without pedaling is great. It has been bulletproof and I prefer the belt. When I first got the bike I told my wife it would be great if they added an electric motor and presto, they did! Can't wait to check it out, the e-shifter with autoshift sounds great. It would be good if they could cut down the noise a bit in the first four gears though.
Mainly because of my mother tongue, I look at most German RUclipsrs. However, I would like to comment here that this content, the information and the compilation are just as premium as the new all-in-one gearbox from Pinion. 👏👍
Wow, thank you!
It doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect, just work well enough to get Bosch and others to have to get in the game. Then we will really be into the evolution of Ebiking.
Wouldn't be surprised to engineers from other brands getting a bit of a sweat on after seeing this...
It will totally happen. And years from now when the Chinese rip it off the rest of us 99%rs will be able to afford one.
It changes gear at the top or bottom of your pedal stroke which is a huge game changer in transmission technology. The old sturmey archer you had to stop peddling for a brief moment which is fine going down hill but a pain when climbing.
Can't wait! Are those Shimano compatible mountings? If not then the bike industry would be a better place if they all could agree on, dare I say it, a standard.
It's not confirmed, but we doubt it's using the same mounting as Shimano, would love to be proved wrong though!
Agreed though, like UDH is pretty much now ubiquitous on new MTB's a standard for e-bike motors/gearboxes and would be nice!
@bikeradar I'm on my fourth E8000 now and had to buy it due to my bike being useless without it. I would have loved the option to try out a competitors motor instead.
I already ride a Pinion 12 speed system on a Gates Belt drive bike. Love the bike, the system. but a few things kept is from being a truly MTB set up. I would be very curious to ride such a bike and would probably really enjoy it. I like my Pinion if the engineers put out another quality product, I am sure it will be really nice.
Great to hear you're liking your current Pinion gearbox and we too hope they can bring some of this tech to their normal gearboxes. IF they can get them to shift smoothly under load and ditch the twist shifter, that could be enough to convince a lot of people the drag penalty is worth it!
My daily bike has a Pinion C1.12. and belt. I love it. But now I look forward to this e-bike without motor and gears in apart systems, but a motor and gear unit. :-)
Certainly many fans of Pinion gearboxes already and they'll make many more with this we think!
Awesome, I was expecting something like this from Pinion.
Given their background at Porsche, guess it was only a matter of time!
The motor should be from Porsche 😆
Is there a recommended web site where you can view all the available city / touring and mountain bike offerings that have this pinion mgu motor gearbox in place?
I wonder what the resistance is like when you have drained the battery and still need to go another mile or so
Probably not great but neither are most ebike drivetrains. The scenario you described almost never happens. When it does you just ride slower to get back without over exerting yourself.
I have a Priority 600 with the Pinion C1.12 gearbox and I'm really pleased with it. I wonder if I could upgrade to this new gearbox and motor.
It would be nice if you could swap them, but Pinion haven't confirmed it. We're guessing it's probably a no
Tern GSD plus Pinion MGU, now that has to be something to look forward to!
So much potential in this, we can't wait to ride it!
Good rundown. Perfect timing for me to wait for the first one to appear on the used market lol
Just what I've been waiting for!
You and a lot of other people by the looks of it!
For the motorized version, are there buttons to increase the speed or is speed controlled by twisting the handle? Sorry not a bike person so terms may be wrong.
Hurray 🎉🎉 I've been waiting for this I want it
We think a lot of people have judging by the comments elsewhere here!
I want a version of this that can go in existing frames. Is there even a standard for the size and shape of these units?
Afraid not, you wont be able to fit this to a bike unless it is designed around it, in which case, it has it anyway!
Are these available for sale in complete bikes? I cant find any bikes with this unit - where to buy?
Sorry, i didn't get who's the 2nd bike manufacturer after Simplon that introduced the MGU?
Does it have regenerative breaking? wondering..
Using a three wheeler, looking enormously much forward to when this is fitted on any cargo bike!
We can't wait to see cargo bikes with this for sure!
In my opinion it looks like a great idea.
Tom said in a recent podcast and video that he thought this is where things for e-bikes could go... guess he was right!
I'm thinking this setup would allow for regenerative breaking - although the benefit may be marginal. It would require the freewheel to be between the gear/motor and pedals. However this would have the negative that that the gears and motor would be permanently driven by the back wheel so overall there may not be enough benefit.......
Its possible, but as you say the benefit would be marginal. It may increase drag in the system, but in theory a system similar to the MGU-K in Formula might work for an e-bike, but not sure the extra weight, complexity or drag would be worth it. A dynamo system would perhaps be better
Looks promising. Only the efficiency is of course quite low. But because it runs normally from battery, this is only a small disadvantage. I would certainly like to buy it 🤭😋
The main advantage and price saving comes when you really use your bike. A gearbox and gates belt are expensive but that’s it for the next 10.000km. Change some oil and that’s it. The belt may go on for another 5-10.000km and the gearbox is next to indestructible with some riders having well over 100.000km on it. Especially high end derailer components will start eating into your budget when heavily used while these drivetrains simply don’t care.
So a heavty investment at the start will pay off later. That’s why these components are mainly used by people who really use their bikes despite the price.
thank you very useful info
Glad you liked the video!
This is why ive held back from buying an emtb. Waiting for this system.
Will it fit into a frame bay designed for the mechanical Pinion 18 gearbox ?
Pinion haven't confirmed, but unlikely as you'll need to accommodate the battery as well
@@bikeradar I have a 900 Ah Bafang battery in a frame bag that would work quite well if I can just connect it to the Pinion motor gearbox and its computer, provided its power requirements are compatible. Or I could use a Pinion battery... do they have one ?
@@BartViaenetypically such systems are dongled and only accept batteries from the manufacturers they want. The same with Bosxh, Brose, Yamaha or Shimano mid drives
Thanks for your views.
Look forward your test ride comments.
The System looks incredible on paper.
Please let us know what it is for real.
Price ???
Thank You.
do they do a unit for recumbent tricycle
Is it really wireless shifting when it clearly has wires coming out of the shifter? It's an electronic shifter, not wireless, and I can't find anything on their site suggesting that they claim it's wireless either.
My budget is definitely derailleur human powered focused as such I even worked free at a bike shop in return for being trained by a certified Shimano dérailleur technician in how to maintain a bike and replace and maintain derailleurs on my bike, not a difficult skill to learn. Alternative power trains are still not as efficient as derailleurs. A little discussed subject is that efficiency can be greatly improved through weights loss of the rider.
In Toronto waiting for Rotwild and Simplon to be available here
Can’t wait to get an mgu pinion drive bike. It’s the next bike we get.
This looks good!
It looks a very neat and well-thought out system, time will tell if it rides as good as looks on paper!
I hope the bottom bracket ballbearing seals are keeping water and salt out for winter cycling. Typical problem with Bosch motors.
Pinion claims the only maintenance needed is an oil change every 10,000km, so the bottom bracket should be good for the same!
They should have to be better, since it's an oil filled gearbox with metal gears and not just a Bosch with cheap plastic gears. It's more motorcycle technology than bike technology. Bosch is a car supplier and has no interst in products which would replace the cars they supply
As a a consumer, I want wireless electronic braking with anti-lock!!!
We'll let you test that one*
*Disclaimer - we may not actually let you test it!
If you moved the freewheel pawl from the back wheel to the Pinion gearbox, you could, theoretically, have regenerative coasting similar to cars.
I'm currently riding a Rad Power Cycles Radrover 5 with a hub motor and derailleur. This would completely blow my setup away!
Sounds like this would be a big step up for sure!
Torque sensor in the mid drive is way better. I like my Levo so this will need to be pretty amazing to get me to shift. Sure I missed a pun there somewhere.
Are gearboxes the future of cycling drivetrains? 👇
They should - at least in e-bikes. However, if the next-gen motors will work like in hybrid Toyotas - gearboxes won't be necessary at all.
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski that's would be awesome
for mtbs yes, not getting hit on rocks and removing weight from a bad spot and adding it to a good spot suspension wise, road bikes dont need gearboxes
@@thescerigai What about those on the fence? The so called "gravel" bikes?
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski if you ride terrain where your derailleur can get hit while riding then you need a gearbox
I wonder how much drag is on the system with speeds past 28MPH.
Pinion hasn't made any claims on drag, so we'll have to try it and see!
This is it, the beginning of a perfect system
Could well be for e-bikes, maybe one step closer to gearboxes for non-assisted bikes too...
wireless shifting that uses a wire ? 😀 I think we should talked about electronic shifting. I'd rather have a cable routed through the frame than a useless battery that needs to be charged. Wireless is the lazy solution that can be added as an afterthought instead of a proper design
why is there a cable on the wireless shifter?? 🧐
My guess is for power to save needing to charge an internal battery?
@@EwanShawcroft could we call it wireless then? 🫣😅
@@spunkt123 Haha, probably not! I had the same thought as you when they showed it in action
@@EwanShawcroft 😅
He calls it wireless but means electric shifting, the cable is in fact for the power supply for the shifter
Looks exciting.
This is why I'm a huge fan of Pinion
Would love to test one
We're excited to try it out, stay tuned to the channel for more!
I like that level of integration. However, the emotor manufacturer are notorious on after sale and parts availability. This, yet again would deepen the gap of repairability if new motor model will show up in two years and part support is next to none. At least you van service your own shimano igh or get your rohloff serviced after long period of time.
Thank you 🙏
This has to be the future of e bikes it makes so much sense
Certainly makes sense to us! We're excited to try it out and see if E-Drive lives up to the hype!
Why they don't made without battery only with gearbox and drivetrains??
This is the furure of eMTB... as long as the drag isnt't bad. I still remember the previuos gen Bosch motors with a "dead battery". Ouch...
We'll be sure to see how much drag we feel when we get chance to ride it!
@@bikeradar any chance you know when will it happen? Days? Weeks? 😈
I need one for testing 😃
This type of system should allow the use of a much thicker chain. Maybe even something from a small motorcycle. This could be agood move for ebikes. It might need development though.
Let’s see more. Thanks.
We'll likely do another video when we get some time in the saddle on the system, so stay tuned!
I would lovely buy such a bike….BUT - how much may it cost???!!?
No pricing yet, but quite likely a fair amount
Technology marches on!!
When is it out?????
Now I would consider getting a pinion. All the disadvantages have disappeared 😍
I want enduro rigs with it beeing a standart. It seems just superior for commuting purposes too!
I really hope this will be widely accepted and will send the derailleur, chain and the cassette in their well deserved retirement.
Lots of people thinking the same judging from other comments!
This is the way
Add an gyroscope and accelerometer and that motor could maintain speed around sharp corners.
All good, just one little problem: price
Tied into one brand? Er no there are two others to choose from. And the drag is said to be unnoticeable. Effigear can also shift under load.
Looks awesome! Except for the controller. The controller looks ugly and clunky and I don't want a big fragile screen on my mountain bike either. Learn from TQ and Specialized please! Also, I really really hope they make the bolt holes Shimano compatible. That would be devastating for Shimano.
Pinion haven't confirmed any fitment details, but we think it's unlikely you'll be able to swap to this from any other system sadly!
Hell yes looks wicked
When manufacturers insist on releasing new products to bike manufacturers only, they are ignoring the millions of customers who would buy their systems as a retrofit. It also speaks volumes for their environmental & carbon footprint to only sell new when you have a perfectly good bike at home already. Not to worry though Bafang will come out with a competing product for retrofitting.
I would buy one especially if it swaps out with a standard p18 pinion gearbox.
Unfortunately, Pinion haven't confirmed it, but we think its unlikely as you'll need to accommodate the battery as well
@@bikeradar I can deal with unsightly wires and could attach a battery to my rear rack. I already have the gates carbon belt too.
190mm/200mm travel downduro bike with this on please!
OH YES! finally a reliable low maintenance system cannot be more happy.
I see that they bend the carbon belt backwards on its way back from the drivetrain. Gates tells customers NEVER to do that to avoid damage of the carbon fibers. Have they commented on this design?
This is what I want. Using a pinion om my regular bike. I want this system om my speed pedelec. Because: less maintenance. Much less! No more changing 3 chains a year.
I would consider an e-bike with this system.
We think this is going to have a lot of people thinking the same!
It doesn’t shift wirelessly does it?
No it's electric, powered by the main battery, idk why he calls it wireless
This could be ground breaking, but they should have chosen a different name. If you search for MGU, you'll find all sorts of Formula 1 references. But for me, MTB is a sport and as long as I can get around on my current bike, I won't get an eMTB.
MGU-K and MGU-H from F1 were definitely on Tom's mind when he saw the press release! Ironic as the Pinion team are ex-Porsche and Porsche shelved their potential F1 programme with Red Bull last year!
Well, good bit of kit but a regular pinion bikes sets you back 6/7k. I don't want to know how a bike with this system will kost.
We don't pricing yet, but yes, could be expensive!
wireless shifting or electric?
Sounds like both will available on different models.
Now all that's needed is dynamo regen for descending.
TAKE MY MONEY!! This is the real Transmission 🤭
Just throw money at the screen, we hear that works...
Surely it’s derived from motorcycle gearboxes, which have been mated to motors for a 100 years..
No no no it’s “New tech” so the price of E-bike will be even more ridiculous
SADLY, everyone that has a current pinion gearbox is completely screwed, you can NOT update your bike to this MGU...You need to buy a completely different bike frame for the MGU!!! You need a MGU bike frame...
Take my money!
We will if you're offering! (I mean we won't but it's the thought that counts!)
Chickenhead managed to read the infomercial, with absolutely no passion or feelings.. Job well done!!
This will dominate the industry. It’s so far superior to anything else. I own a pinion bike, love it but have been waiting to buy an e-bike until they developed one.
Hello dear friend good one for the future,I don't has so much money 💲 that's 😅😊
No one will kill the detailleur on high performance full suspension MTB's
Yes, and snowboarders will never be allowed on the ski slopes.
NITROS boost button on left handle bar KEKW
Just a Pinion advert! However, good to see development of products like this
Not an advert, just a cool news story 😁 As you say, it is nice to see some potentially good developments!
Perfect for those with fear and loathing of derailleurs, lol.
Seems to be plenty about! Maybe it needs a scientific name?