SB Acoustics 6-inch Midwoofer SB17CAC35-4 Review
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- Опубликовано: 12 дек 2020
- Written review here:
www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driv...
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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Finally someone with real information on speakers. Thank you very much.
Glad it was helpful!
Totally agree, finally someone who goes beyond the frequencie response. I have no idea why I found this channel so late...
This is great - actual useful data presented well - and then a website to document it all - thanks for this.
You’re welcome.
You are a Godsend brother..... appreciate the content!!
I appreciate that!
Great review. Thanks.
I wish data like this were available for all drivers.
I seek a mid driver and tweeter to replace an OB fullrange. Two of these mtm with a dome could work 350 to 2.5 kHz it seems.
Would like to see an SB Audience pro driver characterized.
I was thinking of making a oversized bookshelf 3 way with the cheap trick to getting more bass with low distortion with the cheap SB17CAC35 is to simply add more drivers to do the bass only, and one just doing mids, this way u get low distortion mid-range at high volume as well as low distortion at 44Hz by using 4 x SB17CAC35 in separate ported chamber,baffle step compensation problem solved too, and there is no much power u don't even need a sub. The Purifi PTT6.5W08-NAF-01, are like 10 times the price in Aust. $750aud the SB17CAC35 just $70AUD, its better to just use a stack of cheap drivers, and get similar performance. if you have the space, bigger box.
You'll have to pay 280aud instead of 750 (which does not appear to be a huge difference) and won't be even close to a performance of Purifi in THD at 44Hz I'm afraid. There is no cheese for free. Everything was measured, compared, estimated long time ago, and a price represents a sum of everything. I'm afraid you can find "cheap but good" only in India if you're lucky, which manufacturers have no experienced marketers yet hired.
As an option you can consider high sensitivity woofers with low distortions (like Beyma or RCF) as a dedicated sub. Then you can drive them with AA battery and have as loud sound as a rest of 87dB/1w system ))) Joking..
Hi Erin, would the 8 inch version work well in a porsche 911 Door for someone who doesn't want to use a subwoofer? It's very hard to find an 8 inch ( especially in Australia) that can play crossed 30hz to 200hz after which the focal 4 inch k2 driver will take over. The dynaudio mw172 mw182 is a popular choice in the porsche community but they are near impossible to find, cost 3 to 4 times the price of the SB with shipping and don't seem to play as low as the SB, As I have no need to play higher than 200hz.
Or is there some other drivers you can recommend for my application?
This one used by a lot of people. Many, including me will appreciate the test 👍. This woofer is easier to implement than NRX version due to cone break up modes. But from what I see, above 1kHz the distortions are raising and if I use it in, say 20L bookshelf with baffle compensation, it would be nice to cross it way below 2kHz. As always finding a good tweeter for low crossover point isn't easy. Summing things up I'm kind of disappointed by this driver.
Edit - my Polish DIY forum friends say this one sounds mellower than NBAC Alu black cone if someone finds the ALU version too spicy. Comparing to NRXC, both of them sound with more 'fireworks', but also not as 'smooth' and natural - similar analogy to metal dome tweeter against good silk. Something for something I guess. The 17NBAC I use against 17NRXC has x-over around 2k, acoustic LR4, full Baffle step.
try the Wavecor TW030WA11 (4 Ohm version...), with an Fs of around 450 Hz and the Waveguide you can filter at 1-1,5 kHz. In my opinion it sound amazing and its not even to expensive.
With the level that you can evaluate drivers, would you consider making a DIY loudspeaker project based off data and putting it under the lens of the Klippel?
Thank you for the data as always, Erin!
If I had the time I would. But, honestly, my heart just isn't in designing loudspeakers. I find more enjoyment in testing what is already available and making the performance data available for people to learn from and help inform their purchase decisions. Not to mention the fact that it's been a while since I've created my own speaker and to build a good one would take up a lot of my time researching and picking parts, building it and testing it out. But it is something I would like to do in the future; coming up with a DIY design that rocks and providing it for free. So, never say never.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Completely understandable, I've been working on a few projects and it certainly takes a heck of a lot of time.
Amir's reviews but especially your subjective findings combined with data have opened my mind to what makes a speaker great rather than the standard on-axis response graph, thanks again for all that you do!
Someone could make a speaker based off selection from his tests, then send it to him for testing lol
If I would live in US, I wouldn't mind using Erin's Klippel as the measurement test lab for my DIY creations, just to see how they stand against companies with real R&D and money behind their products. I really appreciate what Erin does, and the fact that he provides his Klippel test data to public is really awesome. Actually I value Erin's tests more than, say Vance Dickson from Voice Coil, since Erin uses flat baffle for FRD as opposed to Vance in box measurements.
are these good for car audio in door speakers?
This is the driver used in the new Marten Oscar Duo and Triple!
Hello Mr👋 .Mr. please make test Monacor SPH-170C and SP-6/100PRO drivers.. This drivers amazing, true legend in Germany 🇩🇪! 👍Thanks!
Cone excursion reduces a lot with reflex loading .. so the 2.8mm limit will have some extra headroom if tuned right .. 2 other factors are : ear self-distortion goes beyond 1% around 90dB .. and 99% of all music instruments have TONS of harmonics in any note .. so distortion of sine wave excursion is of little value with MUSIC !!
Btw - dynamic resting position of VC vs frequency could be depending also on type of acoustic loading!?
And - we still have no good answer what happens when two drivers (paralell wired) sharing the same cabinet but having some kind of asymmetry due to different driver positions (coupled air mass and stiffness for each driver) ... comparison with a second test cab being symmetric should show differences! (CB loading for both cabs)
Thanks for all your measurements , the No-Klippel-Crowd out there is hungry for more!
yam-yam :)
for more bass just use more drivers too just doing bass, it also gives u baffle step comp, i u have 4 bass drivers you get 12db of gain for same distortion levels..and the reflex loading, and have powerful bass and a 5th driver for mid-range in a separate chamber limit it to 80 Hz cross at 1.65Khz use the hds 810921 tweeter very good performer too.
@Erin's Audio Corner Would you use this in a near field monitor application? Do you think it still needs a HP around 80Hz in that case?
For nearfield, I don't see why not. The crossover would really depend on the output you want and the room. Sometimes a sub placed at a different spot helps to fill in response issues (like floor bounce, etc) that come with nearfield listening.
I wonder if a ported enclosure helps a woofer extend lower before 3% distortion happens.
For detecting distortion at levels of less than 10%, the test frequencies had to be greater than 500 Hz. At 40 Hz, listeners accepted 100% distortion before they complained. The noise test tones had to reach 8,000 Hz and above before 1% distortion became audible, such is the masking effect of music.
hi. why didn;t test the MFC or CRC of this driver? talked to Mark from SB said both much better linearity and easier to work with that AL/Ceramic. Also the MFC graph looks much better..and MFC and CRC gets better Fs
Is the limited excursion 2.8mm a mechanical problem with suspension? Force factor looks OK and so does inductance variation with the displacement limit. Bad spider? Maybe a bad sample? I think that 'burning in' is mainly about the spider IMO. Otherwise looks like a very good driver although I prefer the polycone version SB17MFC35-8 which is exactly the same motor and suspension wise.
No problem, per se. Just the distortion threshold limits.
на этом динамике Marten Oscar Trio - это двухполосная напольная двухполосная акустическая система с двумя басовыми динамиками. Trio (рекомендованная производителем розничная цена 10 995 долларов США) и его младшая сестра Duo на подставке (6 995 долларов США. . .
Excellent video -- do you haver any opinions on Silver Flute drivers? Their FqResp charts looks amazing -- are they real? Silver Flute W14RC25-04 5.5" Woofer Wool Cone 4 ohm
I don't have direct experience with their speakers. Haven't looked at anything they produce in years. Most of the time if the specs look too good to be true, they are.
Would love to see the klippel data on the Silver Flutes. Subjectively they have sounded great in the setups I’ve heard them.
@@forty5cal1911 I'd LOVE it too -- I'm sure many here would as well :)
Is this what's in the new Philharmonic BMR? If so, maybe it's not a better choice than the previous ScanSpeak for that speaker.
I'm not sure TBH.
It is. Comparing the original to the current BMR, it does lose out on 2Hz of bass extension for the frequency response spec (not sure if say F6 of both); but the ceramic allows for +1.5dB in sensitivity; it’s a worthwhile trade off in my view.
It’s complicated.
The good:
cheaper
higher sensitivity
good looks
The bad:
Lower Vd.
The ugly:
bass distortion (50-200Hz) is worse (or at best, the same as the 8545-01? )
Let’s remember that the 18W/8545-01
Klippeled in at 2.8mm compliance limited by Voice Coil Magazine in 2012... but what does that actually mean. Because during those condition bass distortion is only 1% at 50Hz...and no one complains that the 8545 has “bad bass”;
it’s a “oldie, but a goodie”
Please help me to see it.
SATORI MW13P and sb17cac35 (ceramic)
I am confused between these two woofers.
The satori is cheaper, probably because of its smaller size.
I want a crystal like sound, which unit has the more complete sound?
Satori is the top of the line in SB Acoustic so it was no way cheaper than the regular SB Acoustic. A pair of SB17CAC35 is half the cost of a pair of Satori MW13P.
Hello! That distortion zone can be improved with some kind of enclosure? i would like to use it like a midwoofer in a car .....
You'll increae the low frequency SPL with a proper enclosure. But you won't change the linear xmax.
@@ErinsAudioCorner ok i understand , thank you so much!
Infinity cmmd is mass produced version.
Why test a speaker without a box ?
Hi Erin, Which midbass would you suggest for the car doors, I want to cross it from 60Hz to 350Hz, Is it good to use W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer in the car door?
Thank you
This vs purifi, for the price? Idk man.
In this video for the kit they use a different driver .. still SB17CAC but some Satori ingredients : ruclips.net/video/HwbllNkwfbU/видео.html
It's not a CAC. It's a white paper satori and a beryllium satori tweeter.