Used this tweeter in a custom build about 10 years ago. They are amazing tweeters, and still my main speaker, and impresses everyone that listens to them. I paired them with a TangBand W6-789E. Paired with a sub, they are sublime.
I use these tweeters in a pair of active speakers along with the 6.5inch satori mid/bass. They are amazing drivers. I previously used the cheaper 25mm dome tweeter that has the same baffle cutout. This ring dome is far superior.
I have two sets of the non-neo version of these tweeters in my builds. They are stunning sounding tweeters. Much, much better than some very expensive (but much older) ScanSpeak tweeters they replaced.
who cares I'm sure there are loads of benefits, to dispersion, distortion or directivity. Can't say that's what makes it a good tweeter, or if it's better than normal domes. I can say, they sound awesome. Very crisp and revealing. They go low, and have a really smooth and detailed sound and go really loud with no ringing or distortion. I love them.
Pretty sweet. Would be nice to see it mounted on a waveguide. I just recently acquired a set of SEOS8 to pair with my Seas 27TDFC for a smaller project to go with a set of Aurasound NS6 and I plan on doing it passively (my first)... should be fun. :)
Hello, I'm really recommend you to test the SB26ADC tweeter. It has huge listening angles, low resonance 650Hz (mines even lower). Detailed sound. Low distortions. Only one drawback that I found - sensitivity around 90Db. Overall SBAcoustics drivers is great purchase for a not much money.
I understand that some boutique brands that would normally have a scan speak revelator (Re: $7000+ a pair) quietly went to SB acoustics, which increased profit margin.
Hi, fantastic review. I've been enjoying watching videos on this channel, they are very informative and well made. One question, would You be interested in measuring/testing SB Acoustics low cost tweeter SB19ST-C000-4? It seems to have somewhat decent spec sheet. It is pretty cheap product, maybe other DIY-s would benefit from it aswell?
Ahto L I don’t have one of those on me but I would be happy to test it if I ever land a pair. I generally don’t use small tweeters though, so not sure it’s one I’ll be thinking about anytime soon. Thanks for watching and the compliment.
Well, any CNC is better than no CNC! Hopefully there is a cheap fix for your problem, and if you find a cheap solution, let us know! The null might be audible with those extreme measurements. From real life experience it makes sense that it would make a difference. Many car audio drivers have poor off axis response, especially when mounted on the rear deck. The doors don't help much either, which is why separates have the tweeter mounted high in the door. ,y 2013 Fusion stereo sounds pretty good, but by placing my hand on an angle next to the driver's door tweeter and angling it towards my ears it makes a huge difference in definition!
Mihai C that’s a good suggestion. I have a lot going on right now and haven’t been able to do any vids, but when I get back into it I really like that.
i had someone recommend this tweeter for me to pair up with a 6.5 mid woofer in a 2 way car audio sysyem. i have no experience at all using ring radiator tweeters. do you know the frequency response of this tweeter? i know you said that it'll play down to 900hz. i'm curious how high it will play. what is the sound characteristics of this tweeter? i listen to mostly heavy metal at loud volumes. some edm and drum/bass. watching this video gave me an idea of how big does tweeter is. i'm having custom pods built to mount into the a pillars. thanx for posting this video!
You can find the tech specs on the sb acoustics website or Madisound. I probably wouldn't cross at anything less than 1200 though this is more capable than almost any other tweeter
Nice video, I am late on this video ...I wanted to ask did you end up making a crossover for this tweeter? as i am planning to build a bookshelf and i will love to use this
Kamal I’ve used it in a couple of ways and developed XOers for it. If you need a XO the best thing to do is download the measurement files and put them into Xsim and work out a XO that works for your application. It is very dependent on the woofer you use.
Well ferro-fluid rulez..Dynaudio started using those first i think-and their mid-range speaker was best in the world back then in the 80s...Maybe still is IDK :)
Hi , At 8:47 min , You use an adaptor that go from the speaker to the computer USB to measure the ohms , please Could you tell me the type of adaptor that You use ? thank You
Mark E very well because it is small yet powerful. It can handle loads of power and cross over very low. The small size means you can get it close to the mid woofer also. Only reservation would be that it’s 29mm and the off axis in the top octave is pretty directional. So if you are sitting off axis at all you may notice less sparkle than required.
I bought a pair of Dc28 ft 8's for a pair of Design Acoustics PS 10's I'm retrofitting with new drivers, and they have a sticky doping compound on them. Have you ever worked with them?
ken cohagen no I haven’t but I have worked with other drivers that have that sticky compound and it is annoying. Gotta be careful how you store them and grills are a good idea.
Arnand de Jager no they don’t. It just offers a big advantage over the standard flush mounted way. I would see what you can dig up on zaphaudio.com. That’s where I first saw testing of this tweeter with a horn and decided to buy a pair, so it’s a good place to start. Not sure there’s much more information about using it in a horn out there.
I really love your driver reviews. very informative. I notice you always test tweeters using a baffle. But does a tweeter really need a baffle? Wouldn't a tweeter behave better, more like the ideal point source without one? It would get rid of those baffle refractions. Or are there drawbacks to having a tweeter only suspended, maybe even removing the metal plate. I ask this because I'm trying this in a new 3 way active XO build, a tweeter just suspended in air, crossed at 2.5kHz. I don't have good measuring equipment, elas. So far, I'm not very satisfied, though I cannot pinpoint the problem, the sound is not 'blending' well around the crossover point. The tweeter and the mid are spaced about 6 inches apart (hart to hart), maybe that is the problem. In short: what good does a baffle do for a tweeter above 2.5kHz? I would really apreciate your view.
Marcel Ooms interesting question that’s a little tough to answer with words. I’m working on a video about baffle diffraction right now. I will touch on this given you asked. The reason you are having trouble is probably not related to this, rather not getting the XO right. This is a sensitive area for the ear that needs to be dialed. The no baffle thing probably isn’t helping as there are some issues with that.
Thanks, I will tinker with the crossover some more. Had the first listen only yesterday, it took several weeks to get it just right in my previous builds. Any thoughts on acoustically reflective vs non-reflective (e.g. felt) material for the baffle? I've seen manufacturers use both, even wole sheepskin...
Arif Hussain Id like to, but mids are really less common and I’ve probably used 10x as many woofers and tweeters as I have mids. And to be honest, the mids available generally don’t impress me much. I am hoping SB or Peerless or someone comes out with a high sensitivity 3 or 4” mid less than $60. They just don’t seem to exist. Maybe I expect too much.
Thanks Impulse Audio. How would you compare the resolution of your fav 5” SB (squareish framed... ) mid woofer to the scan speak 15M in midrange applications? In terms of details and smooth sounding in HT applications? I love the 15M, but at louder volumes it distorts quickly.
I have a pair of rebuilt Optimus 3-way speakers and looking at these SB29's to upgrade from the metal dome tweeters that are currently in there, I don't have the brand or model# for them but they came from Newark catalog like 20 years ago off of memory they are 8 ohm at 92db sensitivity. My question is: since these SB29 are 4 ohm and the rest of my speakers are 8 ohm - should i use an inline resistor or L-Pad attenuator to reduce this tweeters sensitivity? My other 2 speakers are 5" FaitalPRO 5FE120 midrange @ 8 ohm & 88db sensitivity (crossover at 5000hz - 500hz) and a MCM Audio 12" model 55-1220 @ 8 ohm & 98db sensitivity (500hz and lower) Crossover is Eminence PXB3:5K0. The extra sensitivity of the woofer doesn't bother me a bit by the way, I've never tested the speaker's combined frequency response.
XDangerDaveX not sure I would add a resistor. Seems like a waste if you have enough sensitivity. The best would be to design a proper XO taking all this into account. You’re spending a lot of money on the drivers and the XO that’s in there won’t be very good for them. I suppose you can always just try and see how it goes if you’ve already got the drivers.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Thanks for the response and helpful suggestion! I don't know how to design an XO so I was kinda letting the off the shelf XO to dictate the driver selection, i figured if I had flat response up to and beyond the crossover frequency for each driver and roughly similar sensitivity of drivers that the off the shelf XO would be acceptable. Without having to individually test each driver and going off published specs - how would one go about designing an XO? Do you know of a guide or video on that? Or a reasonably cost effective way to outsource the XO design?
XDangerDaveX it’s not something that can be summed up in a RUclips video. You might be best starting with an off the shelf XO if you already have the drivers to get up and running and see how it goes. Then try and tweak/play around and learn. The speaker will hopefully improve from there.
How do these speakers compare to the Focal Flax Evo TAM Tweeters ? I have the Focals currently, but one just died, so I need some replacements. Would these be a good budget replacement ??
I noticed you use pink noise instead of a sweep to do your measurements. If I do a sweep with REW on a raw tweeter, do I need to reduce the bass frequencies going to the tweeter? And if so, would that tweeter file have a problem being loaded into XSIM when the woofer’s file is full range (20 to 20,000)? Thanks 😊
Depends on the amp level and kind of tweeter. A dome tweeter with a 2.8V load will be fine. Any ribbon tweeter should get a 40uF cap or there abouts. Reduce the level of you don’t need it loud.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Thanks. It's actually a paper cone tweeter in a pair of 80's Ohm Acoustics FRS-11's I found in a thrift store. Guess they were considered hifi back in the day. Sold for like $1000. Going to replace the rotted woofer surrounds and refurbish the xover with a modern design. It has 2 glass fuse "light bulbs" with a poly switch "protection circuit" in each speaker. The tweeter "bulb" has blown in both speakers. I have REW/umik1 and DATS measuring device. Was planning on doing FR measurements with REW at about 75db through the raw drivers once I get the old xover out. That sound safe? Thanks again! :)
Glen Kashin it really depends on the power handling / SPL you expect from it, however it should handle that no problem with typical listening levels in a home.
Kharis Marzuqi that’s a really tough question. For a car I’d go with this. It can cross lower, has higher power handling, and its smaller so it’ll fit much closer to the mid. Not sure which one actually sounds better as I’ve never done a back to back listen. Both sound great for sure.
Anyone who compared these with the Vifa XT small version? Or the new SB 26CDC ceramicmetal?? I have the smaller XT for in my car, but it sounds a bit too much like a dome (which can sound very good, like some Scan Speaks). But I am curious about this SB version. Normally I prefer Ribbon or AMT tweeters, but am not sure to use it in a car, where I want to cross as low as possible.
Hi, thanks again for review, it is one of the most helpful channels with driver testing. I got some SB drivers and have some issues with them - maybe others have similar concerns and we can have some constructive conversation. First the SB29 neos; mine measure way off in Fs, with one around 770Hz, the second unit in 820Hz. Your pair is very much like SB data, Zaph's and a few others tested in the past. I know 10% is within manufacturing limits and 770Hz would be on the very extreme case, but Fs of 820 Hz is ..., well kind of weird. Also one of my SB NRXs has strange issue with Fs, Qes, Qms being quite high and wondering making Qts jump from 0.4 to almost 0.55 , Fs is around 40Hz, with the other one having Fs in 37Hz and Qt in 0.33-0.35 and being quite consistent. Any ideas what could cause such strange behavior? My other drivers don't exhibit such weirdness and usually stay in 10% limit from driver to driver.
pliedtka I have heard of SB woofers not measuring TS parameters close to factory spec and honestly, for woofers this is usually ok. TS parameters often fluctuate depending on how they’re measured (the drive level being the biggest variable). It may be that you find the TS to be “wrong” but they simulate and measure in the frequency response equal to the factory measurements. As for the tweeter Fs being that far out, that is weird. In my experience, the factory spec for Fs is usually lower than what I measure, but not by that much. I’ve always had good success with SB products so can’t say that seems normal. Have you contacted SB about it? Also see if you can measure them another way to confirm there’s no setup issue.
+Impulse Audio Thanks for reply. Strange Fs with the tweeters I have, isn't it. I run some simulations and it didn't change the overall freq. resp much, if the two tweeters measure the same. My only concern is that higher Fs may push the 1-2kHz up (or down) and that's always a bit hard to filter if the area already sticks out comparing to rest - the resistor in series at the input of X-O has similar effect. I think, I will check if the distributor can find some drivers to match the 'healthy' units. Yes, if you drive the woofers near their max limits all T/S parameters change considerably - the SBB4 or QB3 won't be QB3 any more, not to consider room response - all the hell gets lose. Anyway, this a very strange midwoofer behavior, with T/S way of the publishe data. How low, do you think, the SB29 Neo cold be crossed - with the higher Fs 1.7-1.8kHz still could be some how manageable without running into distortions. Did you hear the new Dayton tweeters by chance or know someone who has ?
pliedtka I tried this and that in the way I measured the NRXs, cold, warm, a day later, vertically, horizontally, so I sort of run out of ideas with this one. I'm using Clio and I check the impedance measurements against known resistors. SB appears to measure drivers vertically and avoid cone sagging with their rather soft suspension.
pliedtka I haven’t heard the Daytons. I’m not referring to pushing the woofers near Xmas. I’m referring to small signal vs 2.83v or even 1v. The TS will change a surprising amount. As for the how low to cross, that really depends on how loud you want it. The 29mm dome can handle a lot. The 2nd order HD starts rising below 2khz but 3rd stays way down. I would not hesitate starting at 2khz and would consider 1.7khz to be pushing it. Most applications can tolerate that range. The Fs won’t really affect power handling.
You could get away from the baffle distortion by having the tweet proud of the baffle quarter of a half an inch extended forward, anyway your Twitter wasn't fixed in so there's going to be some distortion it was just loosely fitted
John sweda I’m not sure what you mean by baffle distortion. I noted the baffle diffraction in this video which is related to the edges of the baffles. I didn’t screw the tweeter to the baffle but it was snug and does not add distortion at all. Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean.
Jeevan I don’t think I have a pair of those unfortunately. I’d be willing to test a pair if I did though. Send PE and email and ask them to send me a pair and they’ll get done for sure.
Nice and detailed video, I have two questions. 1. Can we use this in a car, on front pillar ? 2. What do you feel about the distortion level as i don't have much knowledge to read the graph .
The distortion is good in my opinion. It’s low enough that it’s really not a problem. Use in a car is a little tricky because the off axis pattern is a little directional. That may or may not be a problem for you.
lex Tr3 I did distortion (see 8:12) but forgot to do CSD. FR is by far the most useful. Distortion testing is not very useful especially without a basis of comparison, which most tests don’t have including this one.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers i guess all 3 are useful to select drivers.. dispersion too.. (h2,h3,h5 distortion) .. its cool that you show driver matching too and impedence..i.missed the disto measurement in the video.. would be nice to include a timelime or a link to the pictures of each measurements.. just saying ehhe since i guess we have to really thank you to share all your awesome work.. lots of people are interested in best midrange that can covers from 150hz to 8khz drivers.. on 6db crossover.. lot more funkyness in the fr curve of midranges depending on the material used and resonance point of the material.. also mms etc.. heheh best dome midrange measurements fight from cheaper to costlier would be interesting too.. not that much dome midrange left so possible i would also love for you to test transduler labs n26c and carbon fiber dome tweet :)
lex Tr3 midranges interest me a lot but they are becoming a dying breed as most people go 2 way or use midwoofers as a mid. I don’t like that personally. I believe in drivers made for specific tasks. Sounds like you also prefer dedicated mids so that’s good. I can’t test them all but slowly I’m doing as many as possible. The transducer lab tweeters interest me but they’re expensive and weren’t they going out of business or something? I’ve never used one of their products but always wanted to. I’d gladly test and return drivers to anyone who has a pair. Next time I won’t forget CSD :)
nice thx for the quick replies.. you are so cool .. dayton have a new fabric midrange dome that could compete with the morel at lower price.. transducer labs ceramic are 100$cad at solen.ca .. not sure how costly are the carbon fiber.. but they are interesting drivers for the price.. in your horns i think they will beat what you have now
@@SachinGupta-mb3pz beryllium is very nice. There’s no denying it. But if you want 95% of the performance for 25% of the cost, this is it. Like most things in life, there’s a point of no return.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thanks for the reply. Also do u like silk domes from morel? I hv heard alot for morel piccolo for automotive use. Was getting for 300 usd a pair for used one.
Joshua McLaughlin I would disagree. It really depends on the bandwidth. For something a couple octaves wide it is audible. For something narrow Q not so much.
Impulse Audio within 1K to 5K the lowest variation in amplitude we can detect is 1.5dB. outside that range, only 3dB. hey can you please do a test with the SB21RDC later? it's supposed to be better than the 26 & 29
Joshua McLaughlin sorry but I believe that’s incorrect. Do you have an AES paper or something to back that up? Most research I’ve read on the subject links detection thresholds to the Q and bandwidth. You’ve correctly identified which bandwidth we are most sensitive to, though. I can easily hear 0.5db when trimming a tweeter level during design. It really depends on the Q of the variation. I don’t have that SB tweeter for I would do a test. I don’t use small dome tweeters very often as they require high crossover points.
I’m running these tweeters in active speakers and EQ them through a BSS fds334t. I can make 0.5db adjustments to a HS filter I have applied and can hear each adjustment.
Everything wrong with this. YES THE SAWDUST WILL DESTROY THE MEASUREMENTS, not to mention distortion. Rabbit bit would have done the job in 10 seconds from the hole. 3rd, this is the ONLY SB driver that does not impress me. It is ok, but distortion is not the best.
I just tested the tweeter after seing your recommendation and it is great.
Great Video and great tweeter choice. Its very popular, not very expensive, and offers great performance, which you just verified.
Used this tweeter in a custom build about 10 years ago. They are amazing tweeters, and still my main speaker, and impresses everyone that listens to them.
I paired them with a TangBand W6-789E. Paired with a sub, they are sublime.
I use these tweeters in a pair of active speakers along with the 6.5inch satori mid/bass. They are amazing drivers. I previously used the cheaper 25mm dome tweeter that has the same baffle cutout. This ring dome is far superior.
I have two sets of the non-neo version of these tweeters in my builds. They are stunning sounding tweeters. Much, much better than some very expensive (but much older) ScanSpeak tweeters they replaced.
are these tweeters better than dome tweeters?
who cares I'm sure there are loads of benefits, to dispersion, distortion or directivity. Can't say that's what makes it a good tweeter, or if it's better than normal domes. I can say, they sound awesome. Very crisp and revealing. They go low, and have a really smooth and detailed sound and go really loud with no ringing or distortion. I love them.
Me too. I LOVE these tweeters. Smooth, detailed and great off axis response.
I heard they are probably the best for the money
I appreciate your interest in this..:)
Amazing review , thx a lot !
Pretty sweet. Would be nice to see it mounted on a waveguide.
I just recently acquired a set of SEOS8 to pair with my Seas 27TDFC for a smaller project to go with a set of Aurasound NS6 and I plan on doing it passively (my first)... should be fun. :)
Hello, I'm really recommend you to test the SB26ADC tweeter. It has huge listening angles, low resonance 650Hz (mines even lower). Detailed sound. Low distortions. Only one drawback that I found - sensitivity around 90Db. Overall SBAcoustics drivers is great purchase for a not much money.
I understand that some boutique brands that would normally have a scan speak revelator (Re: $7000+ a pair) quietly went to SB acoustics, which increased profit margin.
Scott Lowell I recall seeing these dimple domes showing up on a few high end speakers about 12 years ago.
Thank you.
Hi, fantastic review. I've been enjoying watching videos on this channel, they are very informative and well made. One question, would You be interested in measuring/testing SB Acoustics low cost tweeter SB19ST-C000-4? It seems to have somewhat decent spec sheet. It is pretty cheap product, maybe other DIY-s would benefit from it aswell?
Ahto L I don’t have one of those on me but I would be happy to test it if I ever land a pair. I generally don’t use small tweeters though, so not sure it’s one I’ll be thinking about anytime soon.
Thanks for watching and the compliment.
Well, any CNC is better than no CNC! Hopefully there is a cheap fix for your problem, and if you find a cheap solution, let us know!
The null might be audible with those extreme measurements. From real life experience it makes sense that it would make a difference. Many car audio drivers have poor off axis response, especially when mounted on the rear deck. The doors don't help much either, which is why separates have the tweeter mounted high in the door. ,y 2013 Fusion stereo sounds pretty good, but by placing my hand on an angle next to the driver's door tweeter and angling it towards my ears it makes a huge difference in definition!
Hey Ryan, you should make a video about directivity. You can compare a tweeter with a waveguide (controlled directivity) vs a classic tweeter.
Mihai C that’s a good suggestion. I have a lot going on right now and haven’t been able to do any vids, but when I get back into it I really like that.
i had someone recommend this tweeter for me to pair up with a 6.5 mid woofer in a 2 way car audio sysyem. i have no experience at all using ring radiator tweeters. do you know the frequency response of this tweeter? i know you said that it'll play down to 900hz. i'm curious how high it will play. what is the sound characteristics of this tweeter? i listen to mostly heavy metal at loud volumes. some edm and drum/bass. watching this video gave me an idea of how big does tweeter is. i'm having custom pods built to mount into the a pillars. thanx for posting this video!
You can find the tech specs on the sb acoustics website or Madisound. I probably wouldn't cross at anything less than 1200 though this is more capable than almost any other tweeter
Nice video, I am late on this video ...I wanted to ask did you end up making a crossover for this tweeter? as i am planning to build a bookshelf and i will love to use this
Kamal I’ve used it in a couple of ways and developed XOers for it. If you need a XO the best thing to do is download the measurement files and put them into Xsim and work out a XO that works for your application. It is very dependent on the woofer you use.
Well ferro-fluid rulez..Dynaudio started using those first i think-and their mid-range speaker was best in the world back then in the 80s...Maybe still is IDK :)
u should do s video about the importance of building a speaker with all the drivers remeasured in the box Vs just using the manufacture provided data
i raul that’s a good idea actually.
Hi , At 8:47 min , You use an adaptor that go from the speaker to the computer USB to measure the ohms , please Could you tell me the type of adaptor that You use ? thank You
Nelson Gracia yes it is a Dayton WT3 but the new ones are called DATS. There is also Woofer Tester 2 which is a really nice unit.
Hi there great clear and easy to follow video i an getting into car Hifi wow well would this tweeter work in a active 2 way and sub setup in a car ?
Mark E very well because it is small yet powerful. It can handle loads of power and cross over very low. The small size means you can get it close to the mid woofer also. Only reservation would be that it’s 29mm and the off axis in the top octave is pretty directional. So if you are sitting off axis at all you may notice less sparkle than required.
I bought a pair of Dc28 ft 8's for a pair of Design Acoustics PS 10's I'm retrofitting with new drivers, and they have a sticky doping compound on them. Have you ever worked with them?
ken cohagen no I haven’t but I have worked with other drivers that have that sticky compound and it is annoying. Gotta be careful how you store them and grills are a good idea.
Do these tweeters need to be used with a horn? Because of the directivity and all that? If so, where could I do some reading for a good start?
Arnand de Jager no they don’t. It just offers a big advantage over the standard flush mounted way. I would see what you can dig up on zaphaudio.com. That’s where I first saw testing of this tweeter with a horn and decided to buy a pair, so it’s a good place to start. Not sure there’s much more information about using it in a horn out there.
Do you have a tutorial on how to take measurements by any chance? Thanks for your videos.
Mus. I plan on doing one but have a few things in the pipe ahead of that.
Yeah that would be nice, I after 25 years still use only my ears for this, which takes a lot of time... but I now have well trained ears...
I really love your driver reviews. very informative. I notice you always test tweeters using a baffle. But does a tweeter really need a baffle? Wouldn't a tweeter behave better, more like the ideal point source without one? It would get rid of those baffle refractions. Or are there drawbacks to having a tweeter only suspended, maybe even removing the metal plate. I ask this because I'm trying this in a new 3 way active XO build, a tweeter just suspended in air, crossed at 2.5kHz. I don't have good measuring equipment, elas. So far, I'm not very satisfied, though I cannot pinpoint the problem, the sound is not 'blending' well around the crossover point. The tweeter and the mid are spaced about 6 inches apart (hart to hart), maybe that is the problem. In short: what good does a baffle do for a tweeter above 2.5kHz? I would really apreciate your view.
Marcel Ooms interesting question that’s a little tough to answer with words. I’m working on a video about baffle diffraction right now. I will touch on this given you asked.
The reason you are having trouble is probably not related to this, rather not getting the XO right. This is a sensitive area for the ear that needs to be dialed. The no baffle thing probably isn’t helping as there are some issues with that.
Thanks, I will tinker with the crossover some more. Had the first listen only yesterday, it took several weeks to get it just right in my previous builds. Any thoughts on acoustically reflective vs non-reflective (e.g. felt) material for the baffle? I've seen manufacturers use both, even wole sheepskin...
Excellent Channel. Learnt so much. Any chance you will do a top 3 mid-ranges?
Arif Hussain Id like to, but mids are really less common and I’ve probably used 10x as many woofers and tweeters as I have mids. And to be honest, the mids available generally don’t impress me much. I am hoping SB or Peerless or someone comes out with a high sensitivity 3 or 4” mid less than $60. They just don’t seem to exist. Maybe I expect too much.
Thanks Impulse Audio. How would you compare the resolution of your fav 5” SB (squareish framed... ) mid woofer to the scan speak 15M in midrange applications? In terms of details and smooth sounding in HT applications? I love the 15M, but at louder volumes it distorts quickly.
Starcraftowns99 the 15M is far better as a mid. If you’re getting distortion, maybe try a higher crossover?? What is the XO now?
I have a pair of rebuilt Optimus 3-way speakers and looking at these SB29's to upgrade from the metal dome tweeters that are currently in there, I don't have the brand or model# for them but they came from Newark catalog like 20 years ago off of memory they are 8 ohm at 92db sensitivity. My question is: since these SB29 are 4 ohm and the rest of my speakers are 8 ohm - should i use an inline resistor or L-Pad attenuator to reduce this tweeters sensitivity? My other 2 speakers are 5" FaitalPRO 5FE120 midrange @ 8 ohm & 88db sensitivity (crossover at 5000hz - 500hz) and a MCM Audio 12" model 55-1220 @ 8 ohm & 98db sensitivity (500hz and lower) Crossover is Eminence PXB3:5K0. The extra sensitivity of the woofer doesn't bother me a bit by the way, I've never tested the speaker's combined frequency response.
XDangerDaveX not sure I would add a resistor. Seems like a waste if you have enough sensitivity. The best would be to design a proper XO taking all this into account. You’re spending a lot of money on the drivers and the XO that’s in there won’t be very good for them. I suppose you can always just try and see how it goes if you’ve already got the drivers.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Thanks for the response and helpful suggestion! I don't know how to design an XO so I was kinda letting the off the shelf XO to dictate the driver selection, i figured if I had flat response up to and beyond the crossover frequency for each driver and roughly similar sensitivity of drivers that the off the shelf XO would be acceptable. Without having to individually test each driver and going off published specs - how would one go about designing an XO? Do you know of a guide or video on that? Or a reasonably cost effective way to outsource the XO design?
XDangerDaveX it’s not something that can be summed up in a RUclips video. You might be best starting with an off the shelf XO if you already have the drivers to get up and running and see how it goes. Then try and tweak/play around and learn. The speaker will hopefully improve from there.
How do these speakers compare to the Focal Flax Evo TAM Tweeters ?
I have the Focals currently, but one just died, so I need some replacements.
Would these be a good budget replacement ??
I have no idea. Never used a Focal product unfortunately. Only ever heard their stuff in home theatres or a couple of cars.
Please tell me this twitter SB29 is better than Scan D3004-602 in sound?
Sorry I haven’t heard the Scan D3004.
Hi, can you make a crossover with this tweeter and sb17nrxc35-8 woofer?
who cares I don’t have that woofer or it would be a possibility. Sorry.
Whats kind version thos tweeter? Its Neo magnet and Non Neo magnet? Which sound the best?
Rahadian Andreas I like the neo because it is smaller so I can place it closer to the mid or woofer.
I noticed you use pink noise instead of a sweep to do your measurements. If I do a sweep with REW on a raw tweeter, do I need to reduce the bass frequencies going to the tweeter? And if so, would that tweeter file have a problem being loaded into XSIM when the woofer’s file is full range (20 to 20,000)? Thanks 😊
Depends on the amp level and kind of tweeter. A dome tweeter with a 2.8V load will be fine. Any ribbon tweeter should get a 40uF cap or there abouts. Reduce the level of you don’t need it loud.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers
Thanks. It's actually a paper cone tweeter in a pair of 80's Ohm Acoustics FRS-11's I found in a thrift store. Guess they were considered hifi back in the day. Sold for like $1000. Going to replace the rotted woofer surrounds and refurbish the xover with a modern design. It has 2 glass fuse "light bulbs" with a poly switch "protection circuit" in each speaker. The tweeter "bulb" has blown in both speakers. I have REW/umik1 and DATS measuring device. Was planning on doing FR measurements with REW at about 75db through the raw drivers once I get the old xover out. That sound safe? Thanks again! :)
@@jimbanville plenty safe. You’ll have no problem unless you accidentally crank it without noticing or something.
How low could you cross this tweeter? Would it sound good and handle power well at a 2K second order x-over point?
Glen Kashin it really depends on the power handling / SPL you expect from it, however it should handle that no problem with typical listening levels in a home.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Cool, thanks. I'm getting a pair delivered today. They seem pretty easy to work with in x-sim.
How do u compare this to XT25?
I love the sound of XT25 but not the size, in my car
Kharis Marzuqi that’s a really tough question. For a car I’d go with this. It can cross lower, has higher power handling, and its smaller so it’ll fit much closer to the mid. Not sure which one actually sounds better as I’ve never done a back to back listen. Both sound great for sure.
Anyone who compared these with the Vifa XT small version? Or the new SB 26CDC ceramicmetal??
I have the smaller XT for in my car, but it sounds a bit too much like a dome (which can sound very good, like some Scan Speaks). But I am curious about this SB version. Normally I prefer Ribbon or AMT tweeters, but am not sure to use it in a car, where I want to cross as low as possible.
Is this the same tweeter that is used by Tekton Design in their arrays?
Илья Основиков I believe it is.
How would these perform in a car audio build in f150 Apillars off axis?
Off axis they droop quite badly at the top end. There are smaller dome tweeters that would probably do better. Car audio is tough though.
Please, could you tell me which is that software? Thanks
Luca Mazzeo I use SoundsEasy for measurements, but it’s not worth it. I would look into HolmImpulse or Room EQ Wizard. For crossovers I use Xsim.
Hi, thanks again for review, it is one of the most helpful channels with driver testing.
I got some SB drivers and have some issues with them - maybe others have similar concerns and we can have some constructive conversation. First the SB29 neos; mine measure way off in Fs, with one around 770Hz, the second unit in 820Hz. Your pair is very much like SB data, Zaph's and a few others tested in the past. I know 10% is within manufacturing limits and 770Hz would be on the very extreme case, but Fs of 820 Hz is ..., well kind of weird. Also one of my SB NRXs has strange issue with Fs, Qes, Qms being quite high and wondering making Qts jump from 0.4 to almost 0.55 , Fs is around 40Hz, with the other one having Fs in 37Hz and Qt in 0.33-0.35 and being quite consistent. Any ideas what could cause such strange behavior? My other drivers don't exhibit such weirdness and usually stay in 10% limit from driver to driver.
pliedtka I have heard of SB woofers not measuring TS parameters close to factory spec and honestly, for woofers this is usually ok. TS parameters often fluctuate depending on how they’re measured (the drive level being the biggest variable). It may be that you find the TS to be “wrong” but they simulate and measure in the frequency response equal to the factory measurements.
As for the tweeter Fs being that far out, that is weird. In my experience, the factory spec for Fs is usually lower than what I measure, but not by that much. I’ve always had good success with SB products so can’t say that seems normal. Have you contacted SB about it? Also see if you can measure them another way to confirm there’s no setup issue.
+Impulse Audio
Thanks for reply.
Strange Fs with the tweeters I have, isn't it. I run some simulations and it didn't change the overall freq. resp much, if the two tweeters measure the same. My only concern is that higher Fs may push the 1-2kHz up (or down) and that's always a bit hard to filter if the area already sticks out comparing to rest - the resistor in series at the input of X-O has similar effect. I think, I will check if the distributor can find some drivers to match the 'healthy' units. Yes, if you drive the woofers near their max limits all T/S parameters change considerably - the SBB4 or QB3 won't be QB3 any more, not to consider room response - all the hell gets lose. Anyway, this a very strange midwoofer behavior, with T/S way of the publishe data.
How low, do you think, the SB29 Neo cold be crossed - with the higher Fs 1.7-1.8kHz still could be some how manageable without running into distortions.
Did you hear the new Dayton tweeters by chance or know someone who has ?
pliedtka
I tried this and that in the way I measured the NRXs, cold, warm, a day later, vertically, horizontally, so I sort of run out of ideas with this one. I'm using Clio and I check the impedance measurements against known resistors. SB appears to measure drivers vertically and avoid cone sagging with their rather soft suspension.
pliedtka I haven’t heard the Daytons.
I’m not referring to pushing the woofers near Xmas. I’m referring to small signal vs 2.83v or even 1v. The TS will change a surprising amount.
As for the how low to cross, that really depends on how loud you want it. The 29mm dome can handle a lot. The 2nd order HD starts rising below 2khz but 3rd stays way down. I would not hesitate starting at 2khz and would consider 1.7khz to be pushing it. Most applications can tolerate that range. The Fs won’t really affect power handling.
You could get away from the baffle distortion by having the tweet proud of the baffle quarter of a half an inch extended forward, anyway your Twitter wasn't fixed in so there's going to be some distortion it was just loosely fitted
John sweda I’m not sure what you mean by baffle distortion. I noted the baffle diffraction in this video which is related to the edges of the baffles. I didn’t screw the tweeter to the baffle but it was snug and does not add distortion at all. Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean.
Hi, is there any chance that you will review BC25SC06-04 tweeter?
Jeevan I don’t think I have a pair of those unfortunately. I’d be willing to test a pair if I did though. Send PE and email and ask them to send me a pair and they’ll get done for sure.
Sure. I will do that. Cheers
Nice and detailed video, I have two questions.
1. Can we use this in a car, on front pillar ?
2. What do you feel about the distortion level as i don't have much knowledge to read the graph .
The distortion is good in my opinion. It’s low enough that it’s really not a problem. Use in a car is a little tricky because the off axis pattern is a little directional. That may or may not be a problem for you.
There are some videos in youtube about this tweeters in a car, on front pillars. Just search SB29RDNC.
@Impulse Audio Thank you for your reply.
@@jerrykamis2011 thanks for your reply, i will search this. 😀
@@Somesh-Ji no problem 😊, here in Indonesia we even use SB Satori on front pillars. I have the SB17NBAC midbass on my doors.
How well is the center attached?
It’s tight and never come lose for me.
why no distortion and csd measurements? fr curve is useful but not as much
lex Tr3 I did distortion (see 8:12) but forgot to do CSD. FR is by far the most useful. Distortion testing is not very useful especially without a basis of comparison, which most tests don’t have including this one.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers i guess all 3 are useful to select drivers.. dispersion too.. (h2,h3,h5 distortion) .. its cool that you show driver matching too and impedence..i.missed the disto measurement in the video.. would be nice to include a timelime or a link to the pictures of each measurements.. just saying ehhe since i guess we have to really thank you to share all your awesome work..
lots of people are interested in best midrange that can covers from 150hz to 8khz drivers.. on 6db crossover.. lot more funkyness in the fr curve of midranges depending on the material used and resonance point of the material.. also mms etc.. heheh
best dome midrange measurements fight from cheaper to costlier would be interesting too.. not that much dome midrange left so possible
i would also love for you to test transduler labs n26c and carbon fiber dome tweet :)
lex Tr3 midranges interest me a lot but they are becoming a dying breed as most people go 2 way or use midwoofers as a mid. I don’t like that personally. I believe in drivers made for specific tasks. Sounds like you also prefer dedicated mids so that’s good. I can’t test them all but slowly I’m doing as many as possible.
The transducer lab tweeters interest me but they’re expensive and weren’t they going out of business or something? I’ve never used one of their products but always wanted to. I’d gladly test and return drivers to anyone who has a pair.
Next time I won’t forget CSD :)
nice thx for the quick replies.. you are so cool .. dayton have a new fabric midrange dome that could compete with the morel at lower price..
transducer labs ceramic are 100$cad at solen.ca .. not sure how costly are the carbon fiber.. but they are interesting drivers for the price.. in your horns i think they will beat what you have now
I want your C&C machine. Can I borrow it ?
Sold it. You don’t want a cnc. They’re a pain.
It's probably all the programming or programmer
Are those tweeters also for automotive use. ??
Absolutely. Not the best off axis but powerful and the off axis is consistent.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakersthere r soo many expensive tweeters like beryllium ones. How will u rate this one compared to those expensive tweeters?
@@SachinGupta-mb3pz beryllium is very nice. There’s no denying it. But if you want 95% of the performance for 25% of the cost, this is it. Like most things in life, there’s a point of no return.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thanks for the reply. Also do u like silk domes from morel? I hv heard alot for morel piccolo for automotive use. Was getting for 300 usd a pair for used one.
That harmonic distortion curve looks pretty bad.
you can't here a 1 dB difference especially outside the range of 1K-5K
Joshua McLaughlin I would disagree. It really depends on the bandwidth. For something a couple octaves wide it is audible. For something narrow Q not so much.
Impulse Audio within 1K to 5K the lowest variation in amplitude we can detect is 1.5dB. outside that range, only 3dB.
hey can you please do a test with the SB21RDC later? it's supposed to be better than the 26 & 29
Joshua McLaughlin sorry but I believe that’s incorrect. Do you have an AES paper or something to back that up? Most research I’ve read on the subject links detection thresholds to the Q and bandwidth. You’ve correctly identified which bandwidth we are most sensitive to, though. I can easily hear 0.5db when trimming a tweeter level during design. It really depends on the Q of the variation.
I don’t have that SB tweeter for I would do a test. I don’t use small dome tweeters very often as they require high crossover points.
I’m running these tweeters in active speakers and EQ them through a BSS fds334t. I can make 0.5db adjustments to a HS filter I have applied and can hear each adjustment.
Matt Hoyle and I bet it’s not very subtle either ;)
Everything wrong with this. YES THE SAWDUST WILL DESTROY THE MEASUREMENTS, not to mention distortion. Rabbit bit would have done the job in 10 seconds from the hole. 3rd, this is the ONLY SB driver that does not impress me. It is ok, but distortion is not the best.
DJ FireStorm okee dokee mr.expert. Sorry I messed up.
PLAY SOME REAL MUSIC SO WE CAN HEAR THE SOUND. THXS👍