Life S5 | Part 2B: SB Acoustics SB13PFC25-04 | Test and Review
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Last of the dry stuff for this series, here are the results for the woofer. Very very impressed with the performance here. I think these look awesome and perform very well. I'm excited to hear how they perform.
Stay tuned for Part 3 when things will get interesting. We are going to setup software to design this speaker and you will be able to throw your hat in the ring and offer up a design as well. We will also talk about the design goals of this speaker and why a desktop speaker has a different set of goals that a living room speaker.
Thanks for watching!
Driver files are available for download here: www.dropbox.com/sh/j6jiieo8u7... 
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Very good video. You obviously have done your homework and accrued the knowledge for good loudspeaker design. Nice to see.
SB Acoustics made perfect 👌 quality speakers!!!
I am really enjoying this series! Its nice to see the SB plastic frame midwoofers get some attention. I think many people overlook them because of the pincushion frame shape. IMO, it is one of the best drivers in this price range and worth the extra effort.
Woah, I didn't realize they were only $23 each! That seems like a fantastic price!
Jon Hexom - I participated in the last 2 ID comps that Roman hosted. I am starting a new build that will use the SB woofer from the first one I did and the SB tweeter from the last one. I am really a fan of these inexpensive SB drivers.
Great video and thanks help reinforce what I believe about SB Audio (Audience). They make some of the best speaker drivers out there. I think there are 2 important reasons for this: 1) Not made in China, 2) SB Audience is completely vertically integrated so they make all of their own parts. No outsourcing. I'm anxious to do a speaker build with SB Audience components, but will be a year or so. Luckily, I already own a quite fine surround sound setup with 3 way tower speakers (a Must in my book) that is just as good with movies as music. That can't be said about all surround systems. But there is always "better". lol. Plus, the sense of accomplishment building your own speakers has got to be a pretty cool feeling.
Great build! If you are going to use EQ on the desktop to augment bass be sure to port lower than the FS of the driver. You can fill the sag in with EQ while keeping the woofer from over excursion. Only down side is port noise from the size/shape of port you need to tune that low, but the trade off should be worth it. I would say flat before roll off of 40Hz, or maybe lower is possible with some work and leaving headroom to reach nearfield reference levels.
NoAudiophile I meant eq with it sealed. It burns up excursion quicker, but being nearfield means I won't need nearly as much displacement for the same SPL as a typical listening distance of 10' or so. Definitely a fair point if porting that eq shouldn't be used below the port tuning.
NoAudiophile it just dawned on me you're the no audiophile blogger/reviewer. Awesome. So glad you saw this video. I really enjoy your reviews.
I boost below port tuning all the time with off the shelf products. Speakers handle it better than you would think. I ran some box sims with your data and you can get to 40Hz with just 6dB of bass boost vs sealed 6dB boost only pushing to 60Hz. Full animal mode tuning with a skinny long port to 35Hz and 9dB of boost get you to 32Hz flat with no excursion issues and still good headroom to about 92dB before they explode. Never tuned one of these myself, but reviewed a few offerings that played the low port big boost game. Might be a fun experiment to try out after building them sealed.
Nice series man, but you need a better mic for recording and some lights vor the video.
Made a sub transmission out of them, JUST WOW.
They play incredible bas. Did had second thought, but there was no problem but pleasent surprises
Incredible a cheap speaker unit can play high end.
That unit is highly recommended.
Only negative side is that it is only 40 watts.
10:37 Xover
what was the approx XO for the 1mH and 8uF 2nd order xover. looks like 2khz.
what was you intention?
Nice tests. Can you tell me where to find the FRD and ZMA data for this driver? Thanks a lot!
Joost de Vries thanks! link to Dropbox in the description.
those woofers made in my country :-D
Love your vids! One complaint, you need more lighting! Always seems dreary in your shop.
drdyna I totally agree. I gotta do something about it. It's more my camera than anything. But cameras that capture enough light for video are expensive. I might buy some work lights but don't really have a need for them other than these videos. If anyone has any suggestions that are relatively free that would be great.
Dunno, I'm a speaker guy like you, lighting is beyond me! Maybe something like this?
www.amazon.com/Julius-Studio-Photography-Continuous-JSAG1/dp/B015QPG3P4
Thank you, I saw that already. I was wondering if there is a website or database with more FRD and ZMA files, since I have the 8 ohm version of this driver and would like to simulate a diagram in the ZSim software.
Joost de Vries sorry I’m not sure there is a website like that. To sorta estimate it you could use a pair in series to get the impedance close then trim the sensitivity down 3db and work with that. It would be similar to the 8ohm.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Thank you, that is a clever solution. I learned a lot from your videos! Great!
You could install VituixCad and use the SPL Trace function of it - you basically take a screenshot of the manufacturer measurement which you can find in pdf specsheet and trace it. Then you can save it to text file and use it in crossover simulation software
It seems to be build right. quite good considering how cheap it is.
Btw I just bought 2 8 ohm version for a sub build.
Not vented, and only 40 watts, the only bad thing I could find about those.
how often do you see a free suspension and large rubber suspension on a cheap speaker?
Btw Just recieved mine. The Cone is vented
underneath its suspension.
you have the sub built yet? I need a cheap and relatively small force-cancelling subwoofer and these are quite interesting for the price. I wonder how they perform in subwoofer application
@@tomkocur Quite simple sub, through a 12 cm 2 meter long transmission tube hidden behind a refrigirator. Dont need to shrink it at all, since the tones are very long and cant ressonate in such small tube. Although you would need to reinforce it still, since it get punched and the tube does have some ressonance.
IT was quite good, but need some power, did nt work well with a crossover, since the fulltones needed the power. Have to keep in mind what you build it up with. I did with some 2 25 watts fulltones. It is not some big boom subs. But they play well as support. A very defined bas. As I intended to be, just some for everyday music not too loud.
One is not enough for a stereo, with 2.25 watts speakers.
at least 2 for a stereo with a stereo 50 watts system.
Other than that, very impressive speakers btw
They perform very well as a sub, if you do not push it to hard. (read you need more than 2 if you want more punch)
I have the same woofer paired with the SB sb26stcn tweeter. I'm using the passive crossovers from the NVX n/v series speakers (car audio). The sound is just stunning. I'm saving up for a Martin Logan Dynamo 300 to handle sub duty and I'll be set.
My other speakers are Klipsch ksf8.5 (home theater) and custom bookshelf pair using Stereo Integrity drivers, active crossover and dual amps.
Norb U nice tweeter choice. I love the SB29 and would like to try the SB26 sometime.
Impulse Audio I have the NVX version of the sb29. It's called the XSPTW. So detailed and wonderful. The sb26 is more warm compared to the sb29 but I just love it.
Nice vid! Do we ALWAYS ignore
fuckgoogleplus that's a good question. I should probably do a video about home measurements. In order to get anechoic results in a home setting the software is told to ignore a time window in the measurement where the reflections start to come back to the microphone. For me, I had the speaker far enough away from the ground that I could use everything within an 11 millisecond window of time. That equates roughly to 90Hz. Problem is that there's a bit of fuzz and smoothing above that so I tend to ignore about 150Hz and down for this.
In order to get the information below 100hz I do a nearfield measurement, which I did in this video, or a ground plane measurement (see my Motus or Magnum videos for this method). This allows the time window to be extended much much longer so that data can be used from the measurement well below 100hz.
Hopefully I can explain this through video in the future. I think it would be really useful for people who want to do their own measurements or understand my measurements more. Thanks.
I, for one, would really appreciate a video covering that. I have read enough to understand the ideas (nearfield, farfield, gating, splicing), but I have not seen it done by anyone in a practical workflow. Thanks for bringing up that topic.
I would love to see a video where you explain how you do your mesurements! What microphone you use, the setup and what program you use. Perhaps you could use a budget woofer (has to be a woofer we can all purchase ofcourse) so we can repeat your steps by buying the same budget woofer. As far as I can tell you use HOLMImpulse and SoundEasy ... am I correct? Thanks for these video's btw!
Edwin Burggraaf Yes I use HolmImpulse and SoundEasy primarily. I have used REW like most people but just haven't gotten use to it. All the principles are the same though.
Any suggestions of a common and cheap woofer?
I don't know if Visaton units are available in Canada/US but I know that the Visaton FRS 8 is a very cheap mini woofer that has very steady/constant parameters. Widely available in Europe and about € 12,-. Did a quick Google and this unit is also available online (Mouser?) in Canada for $ 15,-.
Have you had a chance to look on Madisound at the SB16PFC25-4 ? SB has listed a recommended crossover schematic. Can you recommend their suggested crossover? Or do you see where it might require xsim modeling?
Norb U I looked on their website but cant find the XO you mention. The trouble with those types of recommendations is that it can be different for any tweeter. I would suggest always measuring in the box and determining the XO through simulation and listening.
Impulse Audio That particular driver is a 6" coaxial and SB Acoustics provides the XO schematic. I was hoping it might actually sound good as configured.
Norb U oh shoot I was looking at the woofer not the coax. It does make sense that they could offer crossovers for the coaxials, but the parts and layout they offer look pretty generic. You could give it a try but I wouldnt get your hopes up. Too bad cause they could do better than that.
Impulse Audio If you ever want to play with these coaxs I'd be willing to paypal you the amount for one of the drivers. You keep the driver. All I ask is if you could share the XO schematic that you come up with.
Norb U I have an interest in these drivers so I will keep that in mind. At the moment Im too busy but will let you know if that changes. Thanks.
Hi, very nice videos first of all! A friend and I are trying to make a speaker similar to your Life S5 (based on it), if you don't mind. I was playing around with simulation software (vituixCAD, don't know if it is any good?) but it requires free air impedance measurements? I don't see them on your dropbox, I think sample 1 is the driver in the box, and sample 2 with stuffing? Can you provide me with the free air response? Thank you in advance and keep up the great videos!!
Alexander Mitrousias the software should want the in box measurements or it’s doing it wrong. I would check how the software is setting the model up. There’s probably a way to feed it the in box measurement. I can’t provide the free air results. I’d have to take the speakers apart.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers aah okay. I will look into it! I thought you would have it because in this video you were showing you did a sweep out of the box. So I mean the frequency response (zma file). Also, we wanted to change the vifa tweeter with the sb acoustics sb29rdcn (from your top tweeter picks). Do you think that is a good choice?
Alexander Mitrousias I just don’t keep the measurements is all. Only the in box measurement cause that’s what matters for XO design. Yes, the SB29 would be a great choice. A bit overkill maybe. Depends on your design goals I guess.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers aah okay, no problem. Well I would like to use it in a small living room of 20m2 I guess. Would a ported enclosure be better for that purpose? I am sorry for all the questions, we are quite new to the game!!
Alexander Mitrousias depends if using a sub, but I would generally say yes ported would be a better choice. Even if you add a sub the port doesn’t hurt anything generally. I like sealed for the near field condition and I use a sub if far field.
Nice - i'm going to measure mine to see how they spec to yours. If you search on TT for the Iron Driver comp from 2015 that was the woofer we all had to use.
Derek Jarman Oh right I remember something about that. I was a part of the first Iron Driver back in, ooh I wanna saw 2012. I won best sound. I'll search out some info about it. I never came across much when I first looked into this driver, but I didn't look very deep.
hahahaaa another PETT hangout. MAC/DIY is better tho.
If you want, I can send you a pair of GRT145 ribbons for review. They cross well below 2k.
Impulse response that sounds great, the only problem is that I live in Canada so shipping is crazy if you're from the US. My wife if from the US and I go down fairly often, but don't have anything planned at the moment.
I'll take care of shipping back and forth. No big deal.
Can you PM your addy to R-Carpenter on PETT?
I was interested in trying a mtm with that mid . Do you know the x max?
I can’t recall the xmax. It must be on the spec sheet. Maybe 3 or 4 mm.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thanks I called Madison sound it's 4.5 those things move
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers they don't include that on their spec sheet I don't know why. Are you going to put any new videos up?
Why you wrote "ignore this area due to measuring limitations"? What limitations you are referring to? What mic you use for measuring? I plan to order Dayton OmniMic soon with its own software and these can measure flat to 18hz or i am wrong?
Cheers mate
Zox Wolf I have my mic calibrated to 5hz from a 3rd party calibrator, but the mic is not the limitation. It’s the reflection. The first reflection is what sets the low frequency limit for any measurement. When I take a near field or ground plane measurement there are not reflections so I can get the data down to 5hz or what ever I need.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Ah so :) excuse my ignorance but how can you distinct on graph this first reflection. I just started to delve in these waters so still a lot of mystery for me:)
Thanx for reply mate
Zox Wolf not that easy to explain. But you can calculate it based on the distance to the nearest boundary. Or you can see it in the impulse response.
Thanx mate, i will have more time this week to play. I need your help with short advices, nothing to bother you too much. How can i contact you?
Did you just hold the woofer in the box?
jibba02 for the TS parameter testing yes. The woofer has a soft foam gasket on the back and easily compresses under finger pressure. If it leaked you would see it in the sweep. It's also a really low voltage sweep so pressures are really small. You can see in my other videos like my Pierce Audio subwoofer test or Motus woofer test that I screw in the driver for this test most of the time.
Good eye ;)