What Truck Should I Buy? GMC Canyon AT4X AEV vs Ford Ranger Raptor!
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- ( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Welcome back to TFL Talkin' Trucks podcast! In this live, mid-week bonus episode, Andre and Nathan compare the GMC Canyon AT4X AEV Edition and the Ford Ranger Raptor to figure out which is the best small supertruck!
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#podcast #fordranger #gmccanyon
have a Canyon AT4X - just didn't want the giant spare tire in the AEV. took it dune running and off roading the other day; was a hoot. no problems with it, runs perfectly, super comfortable for how capable it is.
i was having my doubts with the at4x for dune runs
How are you linking it and how’s it holding up I’m consider an at4x first edition or a frontier pro 4x
@@vfate9786 love it! if you have the $ to spare, worthwhile. Pro4x a solid option for the $.
I have a 24 AT4X and love it!
@@tednugent8200 looking at an at4x edition 1 and a pro 4 x luxury currently want to pull the trigger so bad so close to pulling the trigger but just bought my first house so I’m probably going to wait a year and get it for my 22nd birthday, congrats on the at4x my favourite truck out rn
I bought the AT4X. Its been great. Zero issues.
I hope not, it’s still new….
Can you make a full turn without your tires rubbing?
Me too…trading it in for a RR when it arrives. Great truck, terrible seats, I simply cannot roadtrip in it :/
@@pranitupponi4332 plenty of room.
Same here, got Canyon 2023 Elevation, zero problems, best truck I ever had. These are game changers because they tow as much as my 2019 Sierra with 5.3 v8. Who needs less maneuverability, wide turning, harder to park full size truck that is like driving a bus to work everyday when you can have a nice handling mid size truck that hall ass with 430 ft. Lbs. Of torque.
If not getting the Raptor, get the ZR2 version from GM. Save $ for basically the same thing.
GMC customers do not care about “saving money”. If that was the case, those people would be at a Chevrolet dealership. The GMC brand wouldn’t even exist. GMC customers want the best value money can buy and they aren’t the cheap crowd. This vehicle is $10,000 more than the Ranger, and it also _looks_ $10k more expensive inside and out.
@@G-RatedYes but it’s the same thing us Cadillac owners say about GMC when I go sometimes to drop my daughter off at school and there’s a Denali owner there and we’re in my wife Escalade I bought her! 😂😂🤷🏽♂️
Basically the same thing?
@@G-Ratedwhat part of that GMC looks more expensive?
@@briancorreia2923 Maybe the fact a Ranger Raptor looks like a Ford Maverick next to the AT4x AEV is what justifies the GMC’s price. The Google based technology offers a more premium experience, and the front end on the and exterior & the two-tone interior in the AT4x blows the RR’s out of the water.
I have a 2024 GMC Canyon AT4X AEV and the truck has meant all of my expectations. I took it on a 2,400 mile road from California to Arizona to Moab Utah trails and across the loneliest road in America on Highway 50 across Nevada and back to California. Super quiet on the highway with no road nice and just fun to drive. And I am taking the truck on a 4,000 mile road trip in August.
I have a 2023 ZR2 Colorado and no electrical issues in 7K (actually no issues at all). There was an update (12.3 I think or something) that took care of this. First year truck - to be expected. Even the new Tacoma has issues with digital dash bugging out. With these two trucks it depends what your are doing with the truck. Rockcrawling and slow speed offload - AEV all day long. Desert running - Raptor. Everyday driving - drive them both and decide. I love my ZR2 for commuting. Like it better then my Tahoe or our 19 Tacoma.
What color you get?
Nathan, Andre and two cool trucks! Not a bad way to start a video. I like both of the trucks. I love the red color available for the GMC.
Hard to find anything “serious” not to like aside from cost. Little stupid things like all modern cars. Like why not have a physical headlight switch GM. Why not have rear seat vents Ford? Cost is already astronomical.
Thanks 👍
@@bryansheridan6434 preach. The prices are nuts and that feature doesn’t make any sense. Oh well.
The AEV on the Colorado and canyon look the best. Just hate that they get same run of mill 2.7 that even work trucks get.
They get the top power spec, which the base WT doesn't have. The ZR2/Bison engine is way more powerful even if it's the same engine with a turbo.
@@SurelyYewJest I think the complaint is that even the WT can be spec'd with the Max powertrain for a mere $1300 or something, so it's nothing special whereas the Raptor has a mill that is a bit more special.
@@SurelyYewJest same shit dude. I get more torque but same shit. The Ranger Raptor shares its engine with other ford specialty products.
@@ALMX5DP Are you serious? Who are the people complaining that if they pay a premium they can get the more powerful motor in the WT trim? I promise you in the real world those ppl do not exist. Nobody buying an Elevation trim or better cares what the WT trim offers, especially the person buying a ZR2 Bison or AT4X AEV. Come back down to planet earth. 🌍
@@G-Rated I think you misunderstood my comment. The Raptor gets a special engine to match the special chassis and suspension. I think the OP’s point is somewhat valid as the similarly priced AT4 gets the same engine as a work truck would be available with so it’s not a special powertrain in that sense.
One thing to remember is that you can get an AEV edition in any vehicle if you are willing to spend the money; GM just worked out a deal to buy in bulk and install it at the factory at a discount.
Ranger Raptor here, love it! That twin turbo v6 is so good!
V6 is always a winner in a nice looking mid sized Ranger.
Back seat is tiny? I have a ZR2 Colo and trading in for a RR. Want to know how the back seats compare
The GMC looks pretty serious. The ZR2 should be about the same truck for a better price. Awesome trucks!
A close friend of mine bought a new Canyon with the Denali trim. Twice (after sitting for about a week) the battery was dead. Dealership sent a rollback and took it to the dealership. They told him keep it on a trickle charger if it sits for more than a few days. Unbelievable!
I believe it. Cheaper to issue apologies than deliver a working product. All manufacturers are doing it. Even Toyota.
This issue is fixed for 2024
The issue was the system kept looking for over the air software updates, so turn that off in the settings (like a phone in "Airplane Mode") and it's not an issue. Every so often I'll turn it on and let it get an update, then turn it off again. I've had my "regular" 2024 Colorado ZR2 for 3+ months now with zero issues other than a bad valve stem on the drivers rear tire.
Every manufacturer actually had this issue (even Tesla) when over-the-air updates were first being introduced to the model line; they failed to take into account the battery drain if a vehicle isn’t used for days, and had to issue an update that stopped trying to install OTA updates when the battery dropped below a threshold.
@@SunnyFly100didn't effect my 2023 Canyon. GM haters really embellished this issue. It was a soft ware update that drained some batteries durring the satellite down load process. It was talked about over social media for about 2 weeks and after that crickets. Non issue today.
Ranger raptor without a doubt
The REAL winner is the "regular" Colorado ZR2. I picked up my fully loaded w/moonroof, tint, paint protection, and wheel locks 2024 for the $53k sticker. I'll put 285/75/17's (34's) on it (so the spare fits under the bed), aluminum skidplates for the rear diff and fuel tank, and maybe a 1-2" lift, and maybe intake system, cat-back exhaust, and mild tune, and I'm 95% of the Bison/Raptor for thousands less. I think the Bison/AEV is too pricey for not having an engine upgrade, and if I was going to spend absurd money, I'd get the Raptor because it does have an engine upgrade.
I got a 2023 ZR2 stock for $46,500. Stock it has everything I need for off-road fun. It’s great on road. Contrary to Ford owners fabricated stories, I’ve had zero problems with it. Amazing price for a great truck.
Never pay for paint protection; the reason you got sticker is because they added the paint protection scam to the sticker already, so you were already paying too much.
@@Cloud30000 Wrong. After having a number of new cars WITHOUT the paint protection (and seeing the damage), and having friends that HAD it and recommended it, I'm happy to have it. "Paying too much"? LOL No, I got what I wanted with no markup, which is more than most can say. Nice try though Cleetus. Please tell us more about your Hyundai Santa Cruz...🤣
The lower control arm looks beefy for the GM.
Between the two. The Raptor. Bring in a standard Colorado ZR2 and i would take that.
I too absolutely hate the tire in the bed.
Both seem badass. Get the one you want, people waste too much time over pissing contests between brands.
Excellent points. I wish the gmc had actual headlight controls, physical knob for terrain modes (if it doesn't), the rear tire mounted on the rear with a swing arm, better payload so you could actually configure this truck for overlanding, and a better engine.
You should have compared the roof thickness, My 24 Canyon still pops after the repair for the car wash blower denting issue. There is a slight ripple in the roof still. Also had to have 2 oil leaks fixed, one being the rear main seal, which involved dropping the transmission to fix. Time will tell if this is the last of the issues. I will say its the best looking truck out there.
Rear main seals on a vehicle that's less than a year old? Wtf
@@chancefluke7833it’s a defect, not wear and tear, so finding them early makes sense. Every manufacturer has some defects when a part happens to incur a bubble during injection or a seal gets snagged during installation, which is understandable as long as the dealer fixes it quickly under warrantee and the defects are limited to just a small fraction of trucks produced. It sucks to be the one stuck with the defect, but sometimes things are still working when quality inspects them and don’t manifest until you put a few thousand miles on the truck.
Looking forward to the Ford Modal A videos! Tommy is doing a great job in finding the right vehicles for the TFL Classics channel
The tires on the Raptor look puny compared to the Canyon’s tires.
That’s because the AT4X AEV has 35s
It’s nice to see more content on the ford. Finally!
The GMC design and looks wins this.
Well it's subjective, because the Raptor looks way better to me.
The front of the GMC looks too much like a modded Camaro (even more so in the Colorado) and the inside is hideous IMO.
But it's subjective, unless you're just a fanboy of a brand.
It’s motor and tranny loses by far 😂
@@LarryJ602 Nah it’s not that subjective. There’s no way you call the Canyon’s interior hideous and think that Ranger’s interior is more premium and looks good. This ain’t the Colorado. This AT4x AEV certainly looks better on the exterior than the overhyped Ranger Raptor. It actually makes the Raptor look like a Tremor or Maverick in my opinion. 🤷🏽♂️
@@G-RatedI agree with Larry.
I never understood why the mid-size segment didn’t adopt the multi-cab size availability found in full size, with double cabs for those who want a larger bed and don’t need the extra space, and crew cabs for those who want a larger back seat area for either storage or adult passengers on long road trips.
Economics is your answer. Automakers know what they can sell and what they can’t. They build what sells.
For you, it seems logical to offer midsize trucks with the same level of variety as full size. The fact is the midsize market is smaller and variety equals costs. There are enough fleet and individual sales in the full size market for single cabs, long beds and short beds. There isn’t in the midsize market.
I would take the ranger raptor. Price and powertrain take my pick.
Ranger raptor all the way. The performance on the ranger is top notch
I own a AT4X, but switching to a RR. Both are great, can’t really go wrong with either.
Same but I got rid of my AT4X for a ZR2 now getting a RR
@@bigd2256 why’d you go from the AT4X to zr2?
@@MarkPharaoh I had the 23 AT4X with a ton of problems. Also hate that hideous two tone interior. I then bought a 24 Tundra TRD PRO and boy was that a gigantic pos. Missed the mid size trucks and got the 24ZR2. Only issues with the ZR2 are a bunch of rattling plastic in the interior.
Love the gmc truck tires and lift. Awesome clearance for snow mud etc.
I’ve never owned a Ford but in this case, Raptor because of the V6 engine. GM has had too many electrical issues plus would not assume responsibility for AFM and DFM failures.
Another clown just making shit up as they go. Reliability has never and will never be a reason to choose a Ford over a *gm.*
And ford has no issues? 😂😂
No idea, never owned one nor do I have a friend that owns one
@@DH-mf2lv they're full of problems.
I hate to hear that. Don't want problems.
Ranger Raptor definitely
Apples to oranges comparison. the ranger raptor is in a class all by itself
How is the Ranger Raptor in a class all by itself? because it has a turbocharged 6-cylinder or because it looks like a Ford Maverick that ate too much next to that Canyon AT4x AEV??
Ranger Raptor the best!
I didn't know the GMC AT4X/Chevy Colorado ZR2 AEV could be optioned to $70k. Assuming I had the budget to get either one of these, I'd be partial to the GMC/Chevy because of the added capability. The 1,000lb payload would be tough, though. I'd have to pack everything into a small trailer and work with tongue weight.
GMC AT4X is over priced. ZR2 AEV every option maxed out is $66,200 you can drop it to $54k loaded with just ZR2
GMC is always overpriced compared to Chevy; the interior used to really separate the two, but now with the Chevy interior coming such a long way, the GMC tax just doesn’t make sense any more.
@@JMNovak1011 or just get the base Zr2 for under 49k.
@@Cloud30000 in what world? The GMC interiors are way nicer than the Chevrolets. Y’all will say anything.
Raptor! No comparison in this class, regardless of how nice each mid-sizer is this generation!
If I had to choose a small truck it would be the Nissan frontier.
Went with 2023 Colorado ZR2 which has been fantastic, no issues and the 2.7I4T is a beast.
Interior of the GMC looks like a Starfleet cadet’s uniform.
I have a new Canyon that I bought in march of 23, but i like the new Ranger, it looks like a well designed and built truck. Good job Ford and GM also.
Ranger Raptor is simply a better truck and value…V6 is the deal-maker for me. But saying that the GMC is just about as good and I like the interior more
If you want an off-road focused truck, there is no comparison here! The Cayon AT4X AEV edition trumps the Ranger Rapter by a mile!
Easy choice, ranger. I want to know about the 2.7 ecoboost in them now
GM really missed the opportunity to dominate the class with a halo midsizer, all they had to do was fit their 3.6tt v6 and all those AEV mods and wow, people would be lining up for one of those. Me included. Drove a Ranger Raptor last time I was in Australia, nice truck, shit stopping ability and those crazy Aussies are tuning the heck out of that v6.
Nice job, Andre and Nathan, great video! My favorite of this group? The '31 Model A Ford!
As far as initial looks the GMC looks far nicer
I've been watching since Nathan was testing the first gen Nissan Titan
When it comes to price, good luck getting the Raptor Ranger for sticker price! Instead of $57k more like $62k or more. Can't wait to see the 1931 Model A run the Ike Gauntlet! Especially pulling a trailer!
GMC wins in first impression at this angle
Gm trucks last ! I have a 2004 Chevy 2500HD gas 6.0! And its built like a tank
Engine/trans- Ford….everything else - GMC
The ZR2 has all the capabilities of the Canyon, for $20k less. Get the ZR2.
Yup and doesn’t have that ugly ass two tone interior
Between the two and even a trd pro it’s a no brainer, ranger raptor.
i think the only swing arms for these Canyons are tow hitch add-ons which i don't consider to be a serious option. but regarding the AEV price... you could always buy a brand new cheaper Canyon, void the warranty, and spend 20k for the lift kit, tires, skids, etc. Regarding the Tacoma... if you want to fit 35s, you'll have to cut some metal.
AT4X is stunning. Never been a fan of Ranger Raptor but that’s just personal preference.
Awesome comparison guys. BY THE WAY thanks for the laughs😂😂
I've got the 3.0 V6 Diesel here in Brazil, it has more torque than the Raptor. It also has almost every tech goodies, but more road orientated 20" wheels with AT tires. The Rangers all come with airco for rear seats too.
20” wheels suck off-road, especially in a mid-size or smaller vehicle; however, when you don’t have to put any American emissions BS on the powertrain, the Diesel will whomp a comparable Gas engine all day and is the engine to get as long as you don’t mind the extra maintenance that comes with high pressure fuel lines and high compression combustion.
I would like to say, if you were in sand and had to put another tire on, it would suck if the spare was underneath
If you are buried sand to the point that the undercarriage is hard to access and have to change the tire, the location of your spare is the least of your problems. You will probably need someone to pull you out of the sand first no matter what, which makes the spare tire location moot.
If Cadillac is willing to use the 2.7t inline 4 from the Silverado. Then the Colorado should use the 3.0tt v6 from the CT5. The Silverado should use the 3.6tt from the CT4 V BW. I would say be more innovative and make a 3.0tt inline 6 gasser. But Stellantis already beat them to the punch. Which I fully believe GM missed the opportunity to make a performance inline 6 engine from the 3.0t diesel and the 2.7t gas. Have the 6.2 be the middle engine, and then have the inline 6 be the upper engine. The 6.2 shouldn't really be a premium engine anymore beings that for the most part. It's been in production for well over a decade. It's about time they actually start being more innovative on their best selling vehicle.
They should offer the 6.2 in the Colorado
Thankfully the remote left in vehicle alert can be turned off on the GMC.
How much bigger is an R1T vs the GMC AT4X? I would be curious to see these trucks go up against an R1T.
Stupid question. Canyon AT4X ❤❤
Stealerships are marking up the Ranger Raptor by as much as 20k… which makes them non affordable. If we could get them for MSRP they are still expensive, but with the markups they are just not worth the money.
If I could get the aev Colorado body with the ranger raptor v6 engine, that would be ideal
I'm sure you can upgrade it from aev soon enough. You're essentially paying for it with the hefty difference in price
@@marklihsuAEV will mod any vehicle you want right now, including the Ranger Raptor, but GM got a pretty substantial discount so you will be paying much more to upgrade the Raptor then for the GM from the factory
Why didnt yall mention the Colorado ZR2 Bison which start around the same price as the raptor and ive even found them to 55k
AT4x is best looking in my opinion. I looked at one before I went with the AT4X full size. I did not do the AEV package since I don't do a lot of rock crawling. Will likely change out tires and wheels in a couple of months.
Bro, all Nathan does is try and hate on the Bison. What’s up with that? The bison version of the Cayon is so much better than the RR. Also, is you want a desert racing GM, get the regular ZR2/AT4X. It still
Beats the Ranger Rapter at everything except Horse power.
All Nathan does is beat on the Raptor, when it is obviously a better truck then anything offered by GM
@@Cloud30000 how is the Ranger Rapter better than ZR2 Bison?
@@TheZR2KidI have a regular Colorado Zr2 (almost fully loaded) so I'm not biased. The raptor has better payload
Roomier
More hp
And in theory a more practical transmission (I had the 2020 ranger and while it work the 10 speed transmission was/worked better than my current Colorado.
The Colorado does offer a better package pricing because at $50k offers pretty much every single feature that matters when off-roading.
There is only 1 right answer, its the ranger raptor. Drive it at 80 offroad and you'll understand
Yeah because everyone drives 80 offroad....
I’d like to see you drive it at 80 on my “off-roads”
Still undecided. I love my 21 Mojave, but I am looking for something that has better road manners and possibly more reliable mechanically.
I have driven the AT4 and Tacoma. As much as I loved my two Tacomas from the past, I have pretty much ruled out Tacoma for now. The power is down, and the interior finishes are not great.
Still haven't driven the Nissan or the Ranger, so I am eager to see those.
Yep. Get the GMC. Look at the approach angle and the tire size. The one obvious thing is that the Ford will get through a narrower space. Get the Toyota Trailhunter. Much better truck and better options.
GM needs to get with the game and build a turbo v6 for their higher end models in this segment.
Also, that tire blocking half the back window is a no go for me. Id have a mount fabricated flat in the bed up near the cab.
I really like the gmc. Looks really aggressive
The ranger raptor coming in under 60k was surprising. Still too much but considering the price for the competition it's better.
It’s scary when $60k is the reasonable price for a mid-size off-roader.
@@Cloud30000or any truck
@@mabelpup8502$60k would be a good price for a 4x4 1-ton crew cab pickup.
The problem so far is the markup.
Lmao I remember when Andre was Roman’s Russian mechanic too 😂
Easy choice. GMC Canyon AEV or ZR2 Colorado Bison. You get more for your money. Ranger has 400hp and slightly more appealing interior, but everything else, GM has them beat. AEV steel components, 35in tires, f/r lockers, 12ft+ ground clearance, hydraulic bumpstops, off-road/underbody cams, and they look more aggressive than the Ford, in my opinion.
For the price of the AEV edition, I’ll just buy two Powerwagons and keep one as a backup.
Love the GM all the way
The Ford has a full 48 inches between the wheel wells in the box. That's a sling point for me!
Ford guy and I’d still take the Raptor (I have a F150 Raptor) but I gotta admit that Canyon’s stance is beefier and more aggressive looking. 🤙🏼
I like this type of content, thank you Nathan and Andre
Only one right answer here, ranger raptor!
GM loves that 4 banger. In this case I'd take the raptor all day.
That four banger has cylinder deactivation, so…. Two banger
@@frankleespeaking9519that’s stupid. As if running on 4 cylinders wasn’t bad enough.
It’s a great motor and they’ve invested a lot in it, why wouldn’t they love it? The only reason to choose a Ford over a *gm* is because it has 2 more cylinders? Congrats Ford, I guess. Lol 😂
@@G-Rated well about 100 HP too.
@@Link-we8so except you’ll never hear a single person claim the high output 2.7t is lacking 100 hp. Looks good on paper for Ford and bragging rights purposes, but that’s not really a deciding factor for many buyers irl. Majority of buyers at this end of the spectrum want a premium feeling beastly & capable looking truck. Both have powerful engines but the Canyon is the clear winner in design especially while looking at them side-by-side.
That Canyon is so much tougher looking. And the interior is another level than the Ranger, like, theyre not even in the same class.
Are you referring to the GM’s cheap plastic on the door, or the cheap plastic on the dash? I guess if you like plastic, the GM blows away the competition.
Raptor still . The gmc is just more luxury Colorado bison should have added a tune
I hear more stories about GMC’s problems, It makers me pick ford
The GMC front end looks way beefier and badass over the ford.
That gmc looks good 👍
Love the Rush shirt!
Crazy that they didn't include an electronic rear view mirror in the AT4X! That's a wtf moment.
If the Chevy/GMC had a fun power plant, I’d say them. It looks way better than the Ranger and the capabilities are all pretty close. At the end of the day though, you gotta have a fun engine with some character to it. Both the Toyota and the GM products lack this.
So I pick the Ranger because of this 😊
When you were talking about adding a front locker to other trims, I wish they would. I was looking at the ranger trimmer and you actually can option a limited slip front if on those now. But I think you have to have a higher trim package overall to even be able to option it which is dumb. That's why I like the bronco any trim you can throw this Sasquatch package on and you get major off-road stuff all the good stuff except for a sway bar disconnect and their monsters off-road with it and you can do it on the Base model
Tremor
Looks like the Canyon has taller and wider tires than the Raptor.
Although smaller than a full size truck, these are not small trucks!! You wouldn’t know these were “smaller” trucks by their price tag!!
I would like to see the manufacturers build a size truck like was built in the ‘80s and ‘90s.
I am going Raptor based of what I get for the price (avoiding mark up if able)
The ford is heavy because of the reinforced chassis. Twice as strong as competitors
The beds are too small in most trucks, especially these smaller trucks. The old small pick-up trucks were much more practical.
My wife works for Ford. She got the Ranger Raptor as her executive lease. We love it.
Andre is 6' - 3" and the GMC bed is almost as high as his shoulders. Trucks don't make any sense these days.
As a former F-150 Raptor owner and (3) New Silverados and (1) Sierra, I would have to buy the Ranger Raptor over the GM, and it's not even close.
My Australian back seat had aircon vents
GMC should put a I-6 twin turbo! 475 hp 500fbtq AT4x
Blah blah blah
it would rip it in half
No, an I-8 twin turbo! Vroom!
Raptor is the winner! These guys may be the only ones pro chevy on this.
Do me a favor, guys. Stop saying this truck, this truck, this truck. I like to listen a lot. I don't always have the time to watch. When listening, I am not sure which one you are referring to. You're awesome. Thanks.
GM could have done a lot more for power and torque with the 2.7. They have the most powerful 4 cylinder engines out of all the trucks. They did something way more powerful with the Silverado 1500 with the 2.7. I think they should have the Rios to do the same with the Colorado.
The 2.7 in this is the same engine and output as the 2.7 in the Silverado 1500.
I agree, they could have stuck another turbo on the 2.7t. Or make a trinity engine family between the 2.7t, the 3.0t diesel, and could have been 3.0tt inline 6 gasser. That inline 6 gas could have multiple applications between the Silverado, Colorado, Cadillac sedans, Escalade, Yukon, Tahoe, Suburban, and Camaro.
@@99-Zulu allegedly there was a gasser inline 6 in the works based on the 2.7 (~4.0 liter) but I think the reinvestment in V8s caused them to pivot back and canned that idea.
@@ALMX5DP
In my opinion about the only thing they should be doing to the v8s is hybridizing them. NA v8s is not holding up to the twin turbo 6 cylinders performance wise. I would say reliability is better but with the AFM/DFM it's not like they are much more reliable if at all.
@@99-Zulu I’m fine with the performance of NA V8s but I agree that a hybrid NA V8 would definitely keep up with the new turbo stuff and even have some distinct advantages. Not sure why no one has done that yet for the mainstream market but I am fairly confident we’ll see more of that approach in the years to come.