5 Ways to Deal with Gaslighting and Regain Control of Your Life

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  • Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024

Комментарии • 109

  • @lisaedgar3932
    @lisaedgar3932 3 года назад +34

    Do you know what happens when these toxic people are out of your life? You stop looking at these videos. Do you know what happens when they return? You begin looking at these videos again... trying to make sense out of nonsense. I am here to tell you TIP #3 is likely the only resolution.

    • @devintompkins9626
      @devintompkins9626 Год назад +2

      Regardless i will be absorbing ANY AND ALL info regarding narcissism. It gas become a personal interest to study tye behavior and personalities of this type.
      Its become an engrossing hobby lol.

  • @stephaniegeorge6444
    @stephaniegeorge6444 3 года назад +33

    I never knew how to deal with the phrase, "You don't think before you speak". It's finally occurred to me to say that I do indeed think before I speak & it is okay if you don't like what was said.

    • @miraclewarner7215
      @miraclewarner7215 3 года назад +5

      I agree with you. That’s a good response to say to them. It’s like they want you to feel dumb and unsure of yourself so that in the future you’ll be too ashamed to stand up for yourself because the self doubt will make you wonder if you’re imagining things. Good luck to you ❤️

    • @pauldefevere5090
      @pauldefevere5090 3 года назад

      @@miraclewarner7215 ¹p

  • @nedargiordano7018
    @nedargiordano7018 2 года назад +11

    Narcissist abuse, adult bullying has become the silent epidemic. People should call the police

    • @curaturable
      @curaturable Год назад +2

      Very true
      It should be" emotional help special police force "
      Or "special counselling emergency line "
      Dealing with this type of ppl can be draining leading to mental health nervous breakdown and much more

  • @philipallsopp4818
    @philipallsopp4818 3 года назад +27

    I started keeping a record on exchanges. When my sisters started using triangulation,and other methods, I kept the text messages and the emails. Not to prove it to them, but to prove it to myself.
    Then I started writing down everything, just to counter the cognitive dissonance.

    • @skyejacques
      @skyejacques 3 года назад

      💖💖💖

    • @Naturelover-me4qn
      @Naturelover-me4qn 3 года назад

      My narc would say why are you counting on words

    • @astrialindah2773
      @astrialindah2773 2 года назад

      Good job my friend! Yes recording the conversations etc, is vital to keep our minds on the path of truth..

  • @sausansaleh8194
    @sausansaleh8194 3 года назад +31

    I used to record arguments and conversations. Because I used to doubt my memories even though I have great memory. The recordings I would forward to my sister

    • @aaronbutler8118
      @aaronbutler8118 3 года назад

      This is what I started doing when my ex wife would try and manipulate the past events. It shut her down quick!

  • @DEAN_23
    @DEAN_23 3 года назад +6

    I had two narcissists in my life, and with both, I use the same tactic that helped me to heal on my journey, and that's to kick them both out of my life!

  • @michellegimbert3251
    @michellegimbert3251 3 года назад +6

    My mum the gaslighter, was lining me up for being her cleaner. I have 3 other sisters but my mum has always tried to get me to start cleaning for others for money, I have a bad back and have had it for 26 years, have told my mother over and over again that I cant clean for others as I have a hard time doing my own cleaning, but for the last 20 years she still insisted that I do cleaning...well now I realize she had picked me out to do her cleaning in her old age. Well I said no and reminded her again that I have a bad back, I had to get a medical CT Scan on my back and have discovered I have arthritis in 4 disc. I cant believe I needed a medical practitioner to get out of cleaning up after her, A doctors note for my mother/boss.

  • @fleep9008
    @fleep9008 3 года назад +15

    There is a lyric that has great philosophical magnitude.
    "You can't Always get what you want... But if you try sometimes... YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED..."

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +3

      Very true, and when we realize that, life starts making a lot more sense ❤🙏

    • @fleep9008
      @fleep9008 3 года назад +1

      @@CommonEgo Pulling the Positives out of ALL Negatives.
      It is possible. Much LOVE TOO ALL.

    • @Carrie-Mercado
      @Carrie-Mercado 3 года назад +1

      That's a song he sings

    • @fleep9008
      @fleep9008 3 года назад +1

      @@Carrie-Mercado ?

    • @Carrie-Mercado
      @Carrie-Mercado 3 года назад +1

      @@fleep9008the Rolling stones lyrics

  • @pianolearner7
    @pianolearner7 3 года назад +13

    Thanks for this video...very easy to listen to and understand . I started keeping a rough hand written journal a year ago (6 years into the relationship if you could call it that). Every time I got home from spending time with him I wrote whilst it was fresh in my mind. I started to see a pattern of behaviour. Mainly if we were doing something I'd suggested he'd be 'off'. Like in a cool mood, looking at his watch, trying to watch sport on his phone, picking a fight, silent treatment etc. He'd never say he enjoyed the day. But if he had suggested something it was all great. If I hadn't written down when it happened I wouldn't have realised what was happening. I then realised that he never complimented me on anything...he'd find fault instead. But he was always complimenting others (not to their face) especially women's hair or clothes style or saying how confident someone looked. He once said the reason he doesn't say hello if he passed me in the street was because I look so tense. Another thing he'd do was get me to open up about a previous abusive relationship and then cut in with a comment about some unrelated thing which made me feel uncomfortable for even trying to open up. A journal is a great idea to see what you're dealing with. Keep it private though.

  • @starlaeuropa
    @starlaeuropa 3 года назад +5

    The wierdest one (and probably one of the most damaging to my self esteem), was during a trip to the local supermarket. Unbeknownst to me, he had been up to no good while I had been away - we were approached by a security guard/store detective, who asked us both to empty our bags, as he had apparently been spotted acting suspiciously. Of course, nothing out of the ordinary was found, and we were sent on our way. I barely had a chance to ask him what that was all about, before he accused ME of shoplifting! It wasn't just a quick "are you sure?" then dropping it - no! He went into this crazy tirade, saying stuff like "You don't have to be ashamed, you can tell me.", and when I continued to defend myself and assert my innocence, he got more and more aggressive in his questioning, and was only satisfied once I was a sobbing mess and didn't know which way was up! He actually seemed HAPPY about what he had done, and was practically skipping with joy the rest of the way home...

  • @garycordle5295
    @garycordle5295 3 года назад +9

    This is a narcissist favorite thing to do, watch for the red flags, very good topic Christina 👍

  • @FranciscaRigaud
    @FranciscaRigaud 7 месяцев назад

    Thanks for the information. The problem maybe for many of us, is that the person gaslighting us is an important part of our lives and due to personal circumstances we don't have the possibility to get out of the situation. I have been a victim of it for at least 7 years! No, I don't want this relationship and I even have therapy now, but the 50 minutes of week is too little.

  • @stephensmith8812
    @stephensmith8812 3 года назад +3

    Thank you for your videos I just got out of a relationship with a covert narcissist and it made me truly question myself in many deep ways and to hear someone be able to explain something that leaves someone so emotionally confused and distraught that it offers security that while im not perfect i know that a majority of the reasons our relationship failed was for alot of the things you speak on and when brought up would be dismissed and minimized

  • @kymberliethefreespiritedone
    @kymberliethefreespiritedone 2 года назад +2

    Please keep making these videos! You articulated this well and it has helped me more than you know. Thank you

  • @GOD_IS_IN_MY_HEART____
    @GOD_IS_IN_MY_HEART____ 11 месяцев назад

    Hi, I wish I didn’t need this information but I did end up in a 10 year marriage with a gas lighter. I have forgave him. I am healing. Peace and love to everyone. Thank you for the info❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏

  • @hanimmm1986
    @hanimmm1986 2 года назад

    That’s what I really do even before watching your video is that in order to countereffect the negative feelings associated with gaslighting either with a coworker or a partner is to focus on myself, take a distance, and just stop overthinking because gaslighting can make us constantly overthinking and questioning our sanity, very tormenting experience don’t wish it to anyone, In other words ignore and move on because any conversation or any argument to address the issue of gaslighting is useless and pointless and will take me nowhere personally. Gaslighting is a very subtle and malicious way of thinking and interacting with others that can leave someone speechless and don’t know what to do. As human beings we can express our ideas and our thoughts by using body language only sometimes and that’s what I usually do. I came to a conclusion that to express my disappointment and frustrations about what is going on around me is by using my body language instead of getting engaged in nonsense arguments. Silence treatment is a key when we feel drained from inside. I am tired from having people in my life sending me implicit messages using gestures and grimaces…just to make a point. Useless way of thinking and interacting with others.

  • @inter_1097
    @inter_1097 3 года назад +8

    When I tried to reach out to someone It got back to the person in question, and that's where the fun really began. Saying I had a habit of pushing myself on people, selfish, etc, and it was like.. no.. I just needed to talk to someone. I felt absolutely numb and isolated.

    • @ravenel2
      @ravenel2 3 года назад +6

      Cut that person out of your life. No matter how hard. You don’t need insults when you need someone to talk to. Horrible person. How devastating.

    • @PPMOCRG
      @PPMOCRG 3 года назад +3

      I’m sorry that happened to you. A similar thing happened to me and it was very hurtful.

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +3

      I'm so sorry that happened to you. It can be difficult to know who to trust when you're dealing with a manipulative person ❤🙏

    • @inter_1097
      @inter_1097 3 года назад +1

      @@PPMOCRG Thank you. I am sorry that happened to you as well. It hurts and confuses.

    • @inter_1097
      @inter_1097 3 года назад +1

      @@CommonEgo Indeed it can be, thank you. Finally been able to cry a little bit, which is obviously a good thing

  • @ericb8205
    @ericb8205 3 года назад +13

    Thank you for your videos! I just discovered you this afternoon. I dont know what to do... I've been married for 19 years dealing with this. Everything is always my fault. Every little action is turned into a fight with it ending with me apologizing an her saying well if you loved me you would or wouldn't x. If I bring up what is bothering me or upsetting me she says that I always turn everything around to be her fault! That im Miniputlating her! And I'm left feeling like I'm falling into a void. Questioning myself am I the bad guy?

    • @rodandousa3963
      @rodandousa3963 Год назад

      The best part of a marriage is the divorce.

  • @martispec
    @martispec 3 года назад

    I can’t stop watching… I should have read up on this 5 years ago….this is great!!! I know what must be done now…thank you.

  • @Jade-wb6fd
    @Jade-wb6fd 3 года назад +4

    I called out his behaviour and he still said he didn’t say that, he didn’t throw that. When he clearly did since it was still on the floor and before it was in his hand. I kept a record of the things he said on my phone but he knew my phone password so I was always afraid that he would read it. So I messaged my parents and friends about it then after they read it I deleted it

    • @Jade-wb6fd
      @Jade-wb6fd 3 года назад

      @Aniah Rose I’m not with him anymore. I broke up with him. But yeah you’re right I should have changed it at the time

  • @LeBronJames-yr8ku
    @LeBronJames-yr8ku 3 года назад +3

    Great episode as always. I hope you're doing really well, and thank you for sharing (:

  • @carrieannkouri6797
    @carrieannkouri6797 3 года назад +2

    Gaslighting can be so destructive to your self-worth and your health.

  • @cymbolichuman433
    @cymbolichuman433 3 года назад +8

    Some of these guys sneak in your journal. And you must be real
    sneaky and even hide a fake journal so they think they know what
    you're thinking and you can get their attention off the real one.

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +4

      So important to keep it safe from prying eyes 👀🙏

    • @energywithgrace6274
      @energywithgrace6274 3 года назад

      They're rewriting my journal. Tearing pages out. I was reading what I wrote the other day and I can't read this person's handwriting. It crazy!

    • @johnnyguitar7921
      @johnnyguitar7921 3 года назад +1

      @@energywithgrace6274 thats so Twin Peaks

    • @alcudiababe1
      @alcudiababe1 3 года назад

      Don't keep a journal. Why? Somebody always reads it but if you must you must hide it in a place no one cares to look. A piece of advice my Mother gave me is if a thief broke into your house where would they look for money, your mattress, in a draw but they wouldn't look in a plastic coffee pot shoved at the back of a cupboard. Hide it in your cereal box and shove that at the back of a cupboard - how would they guess that?

  • @benzobowboy
    @benzobowboy 2 года назад

    I love your videos they’ve helped me piece together so many feelings and thoughts I’ve had over the last couple weeks about some people in my life. I thank you 🙏

  • @energywithgrace6274
    @energywithgrace6274 3 года назад

    Hi Christina, this is the 2nd post I've watched from you and I like it! The information, how you present yourself and the info you're sharing with us. Several years ago, things started changing in my life and I wasn't understanding what was happening. It became very stressful. I had experiences where I felt uncomfortable around a group of people. For ex. When I first met them and we talked briefly...exchanged pleasantries, to the next day practically, that same person is now whispering hi to me as they're ducking their head. Or, I notice them running by me, not wanting to look me in the eye. I mean, such a drastic change in behaviour? C'mon??? I couldn't believe it! I started researching on my own several years ago so that I could understand what was happening to me and how did I contribute to this relationship and these situations. I felt really judged by many people. I believe there was, and well still is, a smear campaign going on by the Narcissist's who are in my life. I thank you for sharing your knowledge on the topic. I think this should be taught in school it may save some children and young adults. I've been no contact with them since I realized who they were and what they were up to. Being armed with information and knowledge, believing and trusting myself above the narcissist, and awareness and common sense has helpwd me last. These folks are relentless...they just don't thinka long way go identifying. What you're up against. This type of personality disorder is no joke! No joke at all! If given the chance, they'll
    Who your dealing with. It seems they're coming out of the woodwork.

  • @honeybeejourney
    @honeybeejourney 3 года назад +3

    Hi Christina, I'm learning so much about my narcissistic family from your videos. Thank you! My daughter uses gaslighting and narcissistic methods and then when I bring it out in the open, she doesn't allow me to see my grandson. She uses him as a way to get back at me. Any suggestions? Legally, I could get rights of visitation for my grandson, but that will infuriate her even more, and I don't want my grandson exposed to that. Any suggestions/tips?

  • @lauratempestini5719
    @lauratempestini5719 3 года назад

    Thank you for clarifying that it is tge pattern. It must also be the intention.

  • @inter_1097
    @inter_1097 3 года назад +8

    the sneakiest phrase ever used on me "Don't act like you're backed into a corner!" She said other things but yeah that's the sneakiest

  • @rodandousa3963
    @rodandousa3963 Год назад

    We humans are not supposed to live around each other. Sleeping together, eating together and always someone next to us. We end up hating everyone.
    We humans are supposed to live in solitude, talk with someone maybe once a month. This speaking everyday, many times a day.
    Jesus, I am exhaust just thinking about it.

  • @monicaperez2843
    @monicaperez2843 3 года назад +4

    My sociopath brothers love to gaslight . . . I just shut up and play dumb . . . they end up making a fool of themselves!

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +4

      Silence is golden 🙏❤

  • @Ladybirdtaj
    @Ladybirdtaj 2 года назад

    Thanks for your awesome content on this subject 👏👌🏽

  • @karenchilders4656
    @karenchilders4656 3 года назад +6

    My mother!!! I had to cut her out of my life!! Years of this.

    • @skyejacques
      @skyejacques 3 года назад

      💖💖💖

    • @cesarcesar8545
      @cesarcesar8545 3 года назад

      OMG Mom is so abusive and took every penny she could manipulate out of me , Ugh now its been over 6 years i cut the money off , but the Narc goes back most of my life , I use to feel like i was going to die if she died ! Now TY Lord God i am able to just accept i dont and wont ever have a good mom So i only call her once or twice a month !! My sanity is a bit better now

    • @IamThatiAm420
      @IamThatiAm420 Год назад

      I set myself free from my narcissistic mother 4 yrs ago.

  • @JMc_1
    @JMc_1 3 года назад +3

    Always helpful!

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +1

      Thanks Sam! ❤🙏

  • @BigPete44
    @BigPete44 3 года назад +6

    Hey there Christina! Looking so beautiful! 😉😉😍🙏♥️ Great Video!

  • @aliciastalksessions
    @aliciastalksessions 3 года назад +1

    When I smell Gaslighting I shut it down at the door by saying ..What we are not going to do is play silly games .When you are ready to speak honestly I will hear you until then leave me alone . And I don't connect with them until they act right .. If I have to interact with them ..I just listen to their BS and don't even acknowledge their nonsense ..By moving on ..I won't validate the foolishness .I don't suffer fools well

  • @rlolo777
    @rlolo777 3 года назад +4

    It's so sad we have to record anything. Why can't people just admit when they are wrong especially when it's treating someone nasty?

    • @cynthiahill3426
      @cynthiahill3426 Год назад

      ,,, not dealing with a mentally healthy person, to answer your question.

  • @barbaraeich1387
    @barbaraeich1387 Год назад

    Thank you so much for these videos. I learned a lot. Have you posted anything about Medical Gaslighting? That happened to me and I felt so helpless, frustrated and angry since it was doctors that did it. I recognize now that it was gaslighting but what do you do when it's a confidential and sensitive situation like a doctor's office?

  • @patriciaspaugy9288
    @patriciaspaugy9288 Год назад

    Recordings and keeping records only works for yourself. Evidence, no matter how much you reveal to the perpetrator, only creates a greater platform for them to take it up another level. It is good for self defense in court as long as they don't know you are keeping record. Otherwise, they will get better at using your own methods against you.

  • @soulcitysigma
    @soulcitysigma 3 года назад +2

    Hi Christina. I love your vids. I was wondering if for a future video you could tell us more about the difference between histrionic and NPD and if people can have both and how having both may make people different from just having one of the disorders. My ex I'm quite sure has NPD but she does show strong histrionic traits too, though one thing she doesn't do that they associate with histrionic people is provocative dressing. Most other HPD traits though, she'll display

  • @FranciscaRigaud
    @FranciscaRigaud 7 месяцев назад

    Do you know about any FB groups, for example, where people can meet and discuss this and maybe get support? There are only a few public groups on FB and they don't seem to be that good.

  • @sayuncleordie
    @sayuncleordie 3 года назад +4

    Pretend to forget what they say and reverse gaslight, and get angry about it. Turn the tables.

    • @christingonzalez9642
      @christingonzalez9642 3 года назад

      This is exactly what I have told others to do lol screw arrogant pos who act like this they can feel the stress just the same.

  • @Orngnrd311
    @Orngnrd311 3 года назад +3

    My problem is I can’t go no contact because we have kids. His new wife and him are extremely malicious in their comments towards me. Everything is “my fault” especially when I call them out on their mistakes or wrong doings. Key phrases they use are “I feel sad for you”, “you need help”, “you’re just jealous”, the list goes on and on. His wife even went so far as to try to manipulate my daughter. My question, do you have information on how to handle this situation?

  • @CatherineGonzalez-hf8hj
    @CatherineGonzalez-hf8hj Год назад

    Can a narcissist fall in love? What can happen if my narcissist does fall in love with me?

  • @valeriewalkerwhite9525
    @valeriewalkerwhite9525 3 года назад +1

    I'm not sticking around long enough to id a pattern...js

  • @msohail6762
    @msohail6762 3 года назад

    So very lovely 💗💗💞

  • @YoungevitySanLuisObi
    @YoungevitySanLuisObi 3 года назад +1

    Listen to the quality of your sound here compared to another blogger. Sounds to me like you have a blanket over the microphone

  • @loveispatient7683
    @loveispatient7683 3 года назад

    Do narcissist make you feel like the manipulator?…For instance. I’ve struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. I’m getting much better now, but Every time I bring up how alone I feel or why I’m feeling sad (and it’s for legit reasons i won’t get into specifics) they say that I’m over reacting. Or I’m making no progress. It won’t always be this way, you need to learn to change your perspective. But they don’t listen…They’ve said that manipulators pretend to be depressed and suicidal when they’re not, and I feel that’s a taunt to my situation.
    I’m no longer going to go to them for support. I’m looking for a therapist. But is that a form of gaslighting? They try to title your pain as a form of manipulation when you just need help?

  • @AsifSyed123
    @AsifSyed123 3 года назад

    when the evil minds ugly minds and the dark minds come together bad things happen everywhere.

  • @charlies.5777
    @charlies.5777 3 года назад +9

    Is it very common for⛽ 💡 gaslighters to be very intelligent, charismatic, funny and interesting? And as a result, the victim of gaslighting often tries to overlook and minimize the emotional abuse that takes place?
    Just asking "for a friend." :-)

    • @ravenel2
      @ravenel2 3 года назад +6

      The gaslighter I met as a teenager was the most attractive, charismatic person I’ve ever met. It was how he handled all the women that were chasing him. He pretended he was nice to everyone and it was very hard to tell that he was abusing you. If you tried to call him out on toxic behavior, he would pretend that you were absolutely nuts. In the end, you couldn’t even have an authentic relationship with this person.

    • @moon0halo
      @moon0halo 3 года назад +3

      Yes. Yes. YES!!!!

    • @monicaperez2843
      @monicaperez2843 3 года назад +2

      May God rest my mother's soul, she would say people like that can "charm the birds off a tree."

    • @CommonEgo
      @CommonEgo  3 года назад +2

      Unfortunately so 😔

    • @charlies.5777
      @charlies.5777 3 года назад +1

      Thanks to all of you for the information. I'm definitely trying to learn more about Narcissistic behavior as I kind of think I'm in the "denial phase" right (i.e., things will get better) , and should probably go no contact with her, but I really haven't been able to do that up to this point.

  • @rlolo777
    @rlolo777 3 года назад

    So, no one "makes me feel good." What am I supposed to do? I took up playing an instrument, but that doesn't take the pain away.

    • @rowenareinertsen4749
      @rowenareinertsen4749 3 года назад

      No one can “make you feel good”. That’s your job. You have to look inside yourself. If you’re not happy with yourself, then you need to fix yourself before you can be happy or as you said, “feel good”.

    • @barthk3640
      @barthk3640 3 года назад

      Well, I've found that if dealing with a gaslighting covert or outright narrcasist in any capacity, or type of relationship. You'll also be told that they "CANT make you feel bad. THAT'S your fault( for listening to and trusting them"). While it may true, that maybe no one can make you feel good, i guess? Or make u feel good about yourself. Having or being with a good person, sure goes a long way.( If your healthy before hand). I'm not saying you are or were. But If you are or were being emotionally abused it becomes real tough to feel good about yourself no matter what you're doing. If you don't address the issue in a real and meaningful way. I know I tried and doing other things such as hobbies or distractions. And they were just that distractions. It wasn't until I truly sought out some help that I became any better at dealing with the things I had been exposed to. I wish u all the best in your travels. Peace

    • @rlolo777
      @rlolo777 3 года назад

      @@rowenareinertsen4749 I was quoting her. She said hang out with people who make you feel good. Well, what I'm trying to say is that that doesn't work. It only makes you temporarily happy at the moment. You still have the pain in the background and you still have to go home to it.

    • @DEAN_23
      @DEAN_23 3 года назад

      @@rlolo777 Yes, hang out with people that make you feel good, but only if these people are on the same level as you, in looking to live a better, and more positive life. Life is a community, not a competition....

  • @ratbagley
    @ratbagley Год назад

    The volume or sound is kinda muffled. Everyone says that.

  • @biyankabivera7145
    @biyankabivera7145 3 года назад

    Please somebody give me a suggestion... My husband has been Gaslighted and manipulated by his mother. Her bitter truth once was revealed in front of him.. and we stopped talking with her . But still in same house which doesnt feel like a home anymore. And he is having some symptoms of the manipulation. And he is not accepting that he has been manipulated. I tried making him understand. Wanted to take him to a counsellor. Or atleast to start a new life by giving both of us a good surrounding. But dint worked. I am also a victim of narc abuse from his mother. I want to live separate from her. But my husband is not allowing that. Being an indian family, we give respect and take care of our parents till death. But for me..a parent like her. I am not able to accept. We are staying here bcz only of his dad. He dont want to let him leave alone. He also has been badly manipulated by her. But he too is not recognising it and in fact supporting her as if she did nothing. What should i do? How will i take my husband and run far away from them. I am not getting any peace of mind here.. I really want to live happily... Somebody pls give me a suggestion. I dont knw what to do!!!

    • @naomiafia
      @naomiafia 3 года назад

      I hear your frustration, it's my husband that's the narcissist, I've been with him for 34 years sometimes I feel so sad 😔 I don't know what to do.

  • @jane-ew2jh
    @jane-ew2jh Год назад

    Just say wat r u talking about

  • @lorannichols2504
    @lorannichols2504 3 месяца назад

    I had to go no contact with my own daughters. I can't see my grandchildren and it sucks.