Ep. 180 | Is the 6.8 the “New” 6.5
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- The new 6.8 Western is a Hot Topic (Jim’s Favorite Store) among cartridge connoisseurs. It’s so new, not a lot of folks have a ton of experience with it. On paper, it looks pretty darn good. Will it be the new 6.5? Is it everything the 270 WSM should have been. Will it knock critters down with authority at long range? Time will tell. Listen in to get our take on this new kid on the cartridge block.
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I've been watching the 6.8 Western for 2 years. Just bought a 6.8 Western this week! Looking forward to it. I chose it specifically over the 7MM PRC, bc the PRC doesn't seem to be living up to the claimed 3,000 FPS velocity for 175 grains out of a 24" barrel that Hornady has claimed since the inception of the cartridge. Time will tell, both very good cartridges. I chose the 6.8 Western specifically bc it was a short action cartridge. I'm happy.
Same
Perfect summary of the 6.8, was looking for something smaller than a .300 and more modern and was leaning towards the 7 prc but was never sold on it. And with so many cartridges doing similar things, a short action became a defining factor and did some research on the .300 wsm but also wanted to keep the recoil as low as possible.
Yup. I think the 6.8 western Is the best of all worlds of the prc/ creedmoor. Heavier bullet than 6.5 creed, faster than a 6.5 prc and less recoil than a 7prc. Plus short action and flatter than both 6.5s
Another thing is that the sectional density is extreme with the 6.8 western. It's going to help it punch deep through bone which is a big advantage with elk on angled shots increasing the chances at a exit hole
@@patrickrodriguez320 what gets me is there’s practically any meaningful difference between .284 caliber and .277, it’s a pubic hairs breadth at .007 inch. Some SAAMI specs are almost that broad
96 yrs old and the 270 win keeps on going on strong💪🇺🇲 .
I’ve been shooting a .270 for 48 years and I love shooting it, but I’m intrigued by the the heavier bullet weights that the 6.8 Western offers. Do I need one? No, but a modernized .270 still gets my heart pumping. It’s a cartridge that I can potentially do more with.
My first hunting rifle was a 270 wsm. And at that time, I didn't understand barrel twist, BC, etc. But about 2 or 3 years ago, after I learned more about that stuff, I said there needs to be a 27 cal. that has better barrel twist and heavier weight. Personally, I think the 27 nosler hit it out of the park, the only issue with it is the long action vs short action, which I don't mind. But the recoil and the barrel life for comp shooters is an issue. I don't think it is so much for hunters though
Could also just get a custom barrel for your .270. 1-8.5 or 1-8 twist would stabilize 175gr-180gr. Though I do agree that of all the new cartridges out that are marginally better than the cartridge they're trying to replace the 6.8 Western makes the most sense. Getting the same or similar ballistics from a smaller cartridge using a short action would save quite a bit of weight.
Get a 27 nosler sir
What gets my heart pumping and not in a good way is paying $100/20 rounds, I never paid that even back in the day when I was shooting a 50BMG Barrett.
@@mfallen6894 Simple & effective was of fixing the issue. Me....I thought about it. Maybe a 9.5:1? But, my GS back to reality. The .270 Win with 10:1 goes subsonic around 1250-1350ish yards. I don't shoot super long distances. 1000y MOA would be a high point for me. Hunting distances are going to be way below 1000y. A 175-220gr w/ 8.5:1 twist would be nice for those shooting past 1000 yards. Also, moose & grizzly hunters.
Ron Spomer did a great breakdown of the 6.8 Western. If you haven't watched it you may want to check out his take. It's definitely a great round.
Ron is the man I look to. He puts all on the table and explains it so us new shooters understand.
The 6.8 western is a really great cartridge. I hope it catches on.
Ron really likes himself
Yes I don’t buy anything Ron hasn’t talked about and approved
@@clintlautner9542 my suggestion second opinion. The real gunsmith by rand selby. He has many great vdo. And covers 6.8 western.
The 6.8 Western is a really good cartridge..I bought one and have done extensive testing with it and it's the cats meow for long range shooting. It makes it a lot easier for the new to the long range arena to do well .
Twist rate. Twist rate. Twist rate. Twist rate. 270 cartridges revolve around a 1:10 twist rate. Can't stabilize much past 150. Ammo makers can't offer high bc bullets in 270 Winchester ammo because none of the old 270 rifles can stabilize the bullets. The rifles chambered in 6.8 Western will be offered with much tighter twists and will stabilize high BC bullets. 6.8 is right between the two long range kings: 6.5mm and 7mm. I could re-barrel my dad's old 270 with a heavy barrel in a tight twist, handload a bunch of these high BC 6.8 bullets, and crush it in long range shooting. The gun needs a new barrel anyway. I couldn't care less about the 6.8 Western and 27 Nosler except for the fact that now there will be high BC bullets in .277 from all manufacturers. As a handloader this excites me. One of my first projects is a long range rifle chambered in 270 Winchester. Super fun possibilities.
I love how deep down Ryan knows how great the .270 is but he hates to admit it. I will stick with my .270 forever. My next rifle will be a custom .270 with a 1:8.5 twist.
Part of me says 1:8ish would be great for this old girl. But then the greater part of me says “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!”
Good choice.... always find brass!
@@robertfree1908 Why not re-barrel. By now you would have lost a little accuracy and power in the "old 270" While you're at it, make it a 270 AI and get the same performance as the short fatties.
@@burnsmatkin9606 my 270 still has enough life that I may never wear out the throat along with shooting/hunting with my other rifles. Especially a recently acquired 280AI. It’s a Kimber 84L Hunter Pro with the Dissolve Black stock. I haven’t settled on a scope yet. I’m thinking the Leupold VX-FREEDOM 3-9x40 with the new Hunt Plex reticle. I relay like how it’s bold but fine in the middle. I’m sure it’s be a snap to pick up when the light is low. 2 of my buddies are trying to talk me into the 4-12. But I like the 3x low end in general.
@@robertfree1908 the Hunt Plex is a great reticle. No need for a 4-12 with a Leupold they have enough tube length and eye relief to run a 3-9 on a long action. I love Vortex but they could take a page from Leupold’s book there and make their tubes a little longer and a little more generous eye relief on scopes that aren’t entry level…because why does the Crossfire II have better eye relief than a Diamondback?
I think we can now safely say “the market has spoken”. All of these .270 alternatives, to include the 6.8 Western, are attempts at improving one of the most commercially successful cartridges in the industry. They came at the king and failed.
Others have commented on this, but the ENTIRE reason to create the 6.8 Western, the 6.5 Creedmoor, the PRS cartridges, etc. is to move to higher twist rates on barrels to stabilize longer, higher BC projectiles. That is the ONLY reason they exist. And it's a fantastic reason, but it's the only reason. The conversation should start and end with twist rate. If the "old" cartridges had been standardized in barrels with higher twist rates, these new cartridges would never have been necessary. Now someone needs to do it with a .22-250, please!
@bammer2007. It’s called the 22 creedmoor. 90 grain bullets over 3200fps.
100%
@@zacharyfelkel7924 slow for a 22-250 very slow try 4000
What 22 250 pushes a 90gr 4grand where is this magic gun at
47:36-47:43 my favorite moment of any Vortex Nation podcast. Ryan admits that he loves the 270 Winchester! 🎉
I love hunting with gas guns these days mainly the 6.5 Grendel but the 140gr Nosler trophy bond in 270WSM has always been my favorite hunting cartridge and any time I'm hunting an area where we don't have a chance of running into a bunch of hogs that's what I'm hunting with. I never heard of the 6.8 Western before but sounds cool as hell. Great podcast guys yall rock!!!
338-284 Canadian KCG is a 284 win necked up to 338 by gunsmith and custom rifle builder Mark Pinkston in Hawaii. Supposedly, "Canadian" was added to the name simply because the cartridge is suitable for use on all North American game. Mark is the owner of Kailua Custom Guns, hence "K C G"
So a 338-06?
@@jeremys8360 It supposedly outperforms the 338-06. About an extra 100fps on 200gr pills, but from a short action. It's closer to a hot .338fed, given they're both short-actions.
I love the 6.8 round.
I re-barreled my 32 year old Weatherby Mark V, 270 Mag with a Hawk Hill Custom 1:8 twist barrel (with prescribed Weatherby freebore) four years ago. I've been loading Berger 170 grain Elite Hunter bullets. Average velocity from 25 rounds is 3197 fps. Accuracy and bullet performance on heavy game is phenomenal. Dropped an 2100 lb. eland in his tracks at 521 yards two years ago. Love the Berger's but I can't wait to play with some of the up and coming heavier bullets.
Jesus man that's a damn scud missle 3100 out of a 170 in 270 winchester......are u pulling my leg
Oh shit I miss read I see 270 mag so it was a Weatherby cartridge makes sense now
It is now 2023 and I have a 6.8 western and I love it. I also own a 270 and a 6.5 and love them both. If I had to choose one it would be the 6.8 on performance but the 270 on family history and memories. I actually have my grandpas Husqvarna in a 270 and will never sale it.
As you were talking about European calibers. Some time ago a gunsmith here in Germany told me that 75% of all rifles he sells are chambered in .308 win. And he really meant all rifles including rim fires. If a new model comes out, sometimes it’s the only caliber you can get it in, at least for some time. Looks like everyone and his mother shoots .308 today.
The venerable 308 Win brings a lot of what a hunter needs to the table, over a wide range of game animals.
It like it's grandfather ( 30-06 ) just plain works, with a ton of bullet design options.
308 can be bought everywhere
It's simple because EU gun laws are really strict we cant just go out and buy a rifle off the shelf, we have to apply for licences bend over backwards so that's why .308 is popular.
That's why .308 has become a standard it's a do all round it's cheap and it does all.
Not surprising anymore than the popularity of 30-06 in Europe: the US government supplied surplus Garands after WW2, then pushed 7.62x51. Lots of GIs brought those calibers over in hunting rifles to Germany.
@@MrDakkyz "EU gun laws" is not a thing. In most EU country you can get any caliber you want. If anything in some EU countries there is a law to allow ownership only one gun in a single caliber. So having rifles in different calibers is encouraged.
308 Win is popular because it is available everywhere and relatively cheap. It can also kill any animal native to Europe. It is fine for sheep, goat, roe deer, fine for boar, fine for moose. If a Norwegian hunter wants to hunt in Spain or Poland he can be sure 308 will be on the shelves, but maybe not 6.5x55.
The 6.8 Western is the ONLY cartridge that, in my mind, challenges the 280 AI for the best overall hunting cartridge.
That Miata reference it’s spot on in the jdm community 😂😂😂
You guys are great! It is good to see the banter go back and forth especially when it is mixed with real world knowledge of the cartridge being spoken about! I have been reloading for 32 years now, since I was 14 and it always amazes me no matter how much experience someone has there is always something new to learn about the sport. Keep up the great work!!!
Thanks for tuning in, Don! There is always something new to learn - that's for sure! If you have any suggestions or anything you've been wanting to learn we always are open to suggestions!
A man once told me that the cartridge you shoot is always worse than the new ones to come out. And that a cartridge is only as good as the guy behind the gun
So "you" are getting worse as time goes on. Got it.
Ironically enough, the Army is now adopting the 6.8 fury in the Sig Spear.
Still waiting might as well save out tax money Brandon is wasting and stay with 308 if anything eliminate the 5.56 with 6arc
They have not done shit to replace the 5.56NATO. I doubt they will for sometime.
So interesting how smart Ryan is and says things like the .270 doesn’t jump out to him on paper when it is ballistically superior to a 6.5 creedmoor out to 500 yards which he says is his limit on shooting game. It does Everything the 6.5 does and does it better yet he doesn’t like it. Too good of a cartridge to not like it in my opinion
15 minutes into the podcast when twist rate is mentioned. That's what is keeping the .270 winchester from shooting those heavy for caliber bullets. I know the .270 is a long action and therefore would never really be considered for PRS type environment, but if you rebarreled the old goat with a 1 in 8" twist and a longer throat, it would hang with these short magnums all day.
Been thinking about this for years. 1in 8 or 1 in 9 twist in a 3006 and 270 is probably a engineering mistake from day they were designed. Or modern technology changed things
@Nick Nolte
Um, actually no.....
270 is 277 diameter and 6.8 is 277 diameter bullets....
6.8 runs SAAMI specs up to 55 thou pressures, is flatter shooting and less recoil.
@@travissmith-wz5nc modern tech definitely changed things. The 30-06 was adopted in 1906 but was designed slightly sooner. The 270 win was designed in 1925. A lot has happened in bullet and firearm design since then
Finally! I've been waiting for this! Super excited.
Same here!
I don’t give two flyin turtle sh*ts about the 6.8 western, or most cartridges discussed on these 10 minute talks... But I will listen to every second of every podcast Ryan Muckenhirn is on. His knowledge and delivery of said knowledge is mesmerizing to me, almost like when I used to sit Indian style on the porch listening to Great Grandpa tell old stories.
10 minute talks...lol
Mike Crabtree is Ryan Muckenhirn
So, it’s a year later and the 68 Western is still there. It hasn’t taken off like they hoped, but it’s still hanging on. One big downfall is that Hornady outright opposes it and has refused to make any heavy weight 27 caliber pills. Burger, Nosler and sierra, along with some smaller companies like hammer bullets each make a good bullet for it. And now there is a 162 grain copper, but I don’t know what line of bullet it is.
My 68 Western has been stuck in build waiting for the stock for four months now, but should be here in a week or two. Can’t wait. Been buying ammo and reloading supplies all I need is the gun.
Guys, haven't you heard, the .270 is the new 6.8 which was the new 6.5 which was the replacement for the old .243
Best all around cartridge: 7MM-08.
Take it up a step 280ai best non mag
Love the 7mm08 145 barnes lrx for deer size game and 150 accubond long range for elk
A good choice but I would argue the 30-06 is more versatile
@@NomadicHacker. it is. just super boring to me for long action I prefer 280 or 280 ai. Got a few 30-06
tylar haugan I have never found long action to be that much of a set back but if you are going to limit it so short action then I would agree. The 280ai is one hell of an all rounder ( better if you’re a hand loader though)
“Are we in an age when you can make any cartridge shoot well?”
Grinning and nodding “Yup”. That was good
I got two does this year with 6.8 spc this year , the hydrostatic shock and bleed out was crazy
Been using the 6.8 SPC since it came out. It is the superior AR hunting cartridge in my opinion. The 120g SST always expands in the animal......whereas my Grendel usually pokes a hole and keeps on rolling down range.
The 6.8 SPC is my favorite cartridge for wild hogs. It’s devastating in 120 grains. Zero feeding issues. Good follow up shoots.
To each his own, but I choose the 68spc over the 300blackout!
My wife shoots deer with her spc, contender rifle@ 2600 w/100 gr nosler AB. Very good deer medicine
6.5 close to 6.8 and world known
No one asked…
You guys tiptoed over the sole purpose for this cartridge. They were looking for a heavier, higher ballistic coefficient, bullet that would fit in a short action receiver. The 1/10 twist in current rifles would not allow it. In order to make a rifle with a faster twist from the factory they had to come up with a new cartridge. A new cartridge means a new rifle. Open your wallet.
Exactly. The bullet weight was restricted my twist rates of the current 270 calibers!
You are 100% correct! The .270WSM is and was a monster, but everyone knew it would be better ballistics with heavy, high BC bullets. I wrote to browning several times suggesting they replace the 1:10 twist barrels with faster twist, so instead of making the .270WSM work with heavy bullets, they pushed the shoulder back a couple thousandths and said buy a new caliber gun instead.
@@davidbarbee1276
Actually it's more like .08 (eighty thousandths) for case length.
270 is 2.100 in length and 6.8 is 2.020, with cartridge OAL at 2.995 maximum for it as well.
270WSM shooters have been begging for better ballistics and better twist rates. Any serious precision shooter running a 270WSM is reloading as well as ordering barrels with faster twist rates which puts them into a custom rifle to take full advantage of the .277 caliber. Nosler introducted the 27 Nosler to utilize high BC heavier bullets but it requires a long action and a longer barrel. The 6.8Western is the perfect answer for the non-reloader, non-custom rifle build, all around hunting cartridge for both short, medium, and long range. A lot of people are automatically dead set against new cartridges claiming the older cartridges will do just as good if not better. The introduction of the 270/300WSM cartridges were criticized fully and here we are decades later still running those cartridges. The 6.5CM and 6.5PRC got more flack upon their introduction than any caliber I can remember but they fill a role for those who don't reload or build custom rifles. Sure the .264WM and 6.5x284 can slightly outperform the new 6.5's but they both require long actions, longer barrels, and heavier rifles. I for one am very excited about the 6.8 Western and will be building a custom rifle around this new caliber. It absolutely is the answer to the requests of all of the 270WSM shooters out there.
Sat through this waiting to hear that. Nope 🤦🏻♂️.
Fantastic episode guys! You covered a whole slew of cartridges and topics near and dear to my heart!!! Keep up the interesting topics.
The issue with the .270 WIN is barrel twist for heavier high BC projectiles. The 6.8 Western offers faster twist barrels to stabilize the heavier projectiles with greater BC. When reloading dies become available, I plan to add a 6.8 Western to my collection next to my Ruger M77 and Remington 700 .270s.
It is not just faster twist. The throat, free bore - leade, is longer, and moving the shoulder back also helps keep the bullet out of the powder space, all of which increases precision . The end result is the factory designs getting closer to what is often done for custom rifles and hand loads
Yay, my 270 wsm is relevant again.... lol
Lol i was thinking the same thing
Always has been ;)
Big fan or 270wsm the guys in green I believe is problem not open minded and only believes the masses. Try some new food!
Not if the twist rate won’t stabilize long bullets.
I've got a 6.8 western in a browning hells canyon LR, i have had to buy factory browning ammo and have been on the hunt for a spare mag as there isn't a bunch going around. took my mule deer this fall with it and have been taking it out to 800m easily off bi pod into 3-4" groups. fantastic rifle and cartridge. currently have dies and reloading for it. I've got about 250 brass and 600 projectiles at 170gr bergers. hopefully the browning rep makes some new brass and projectiles available.
Quarter bore is the new 6mm thanks to projectile tech. Elr is moved away from 50 to .416 to 408 and is now moving to .375. This is the never ending cycle of bc vs recoil. 208 grain 30 caliber is the same bc as a 168 7mm. Push them the same speed the 30 cal wins but with more recoil. The question is never what is the best combo, but it is always what is the best combo for my criteria.
Throw the 6.5 in 7prc case with a berger 156gr and that's about perfect good bc no recoil
270 Win was designed around one bullet the 130 grain, to give it the advantage of flat trajectory, then they did come out with 110 & 150 and years ago they had a 170 round nose, it didn't stabilize in the 1-10 twist. there are people re-barreling in 1-8 and 1-9 barrels to get more range with 150 grain bullets, just think if they would have built it with a faster twist to start with what it would be like now.
Would like to see a video on the 9.3X62
Mark is a comedy genius “…..that worked perfectly, never use that again.” 🤣😂🤣😂
Cartridge talk updates! Keep them coming when the time is right!
April 2024, just purchased a Winchester XPR in 6.8 Western. Previously owned a .270 win and this 6.8 is the only .277 I currently have. Doing load development now and getting 3025 FPS with 165g Nos Accubond LR. 3160 with 150g Nos Ballistic tip. I just need Lapua or Peterson to start cranking out some brass! Its a Cheaper factory gun shooting 1Moa or less easily. Its gonna be a lethal Texas Hill Country pill slinger!
Ryan can make an argument for every cartridge being good. I would really like to know if there is a cartridge that he absolutely does not like. I enjoy listening to him. He knows every cartridge and it’s history as well as it’s pros and cons.
I believe he said that the 7mm rem mag was a wump wump lol
I would love to hear his reason for not liking a cartridge that is so popular and loved. I just heard Ryan say he only had 1 .270 and he regrets buying.
He really hates 7mm rem mag😂
I inherited a 35 Whelen and would like to hear an in depth conversation on that for sure.
@Gunblue490
My dad has shot many elk and deer with his. Very underrated cartridge. Not for long range but will knock the crap out of anything.
I use the Whelen on North East Black bear. I don't have to track them. The guides there love that caliber.
It's damn near the perfect standard length non-magnum larger than 30 caliber. It's almost like the 30-06 case was designed for it. I studied it vs 338-06, and the 35 Whelen wins hands-down based on velocity, because a 338 bullet of similar weight is too long for this cartridge to get velocities a 358 bullet does.
It has not been a year, but here goes. I am a custom rifle builder, I can build myself most anything. I had built a 30 Gibbs and used that for my go-to rifle for the longest time. I am looking at building another all-around rifle and the 6.8 Western is just stuck in my mind. I have a Proof 1-8 tw 24" barrel coming, a Mack Evo Stainless action and a Manners EH8 stock, bottom metal will be Hawkins topped with a gen 2 razor LH, and Triggertech trigger.
Did you build that rifle and if so are you happy with it? Sounds STRONG! 😎
@@chipsterb4946Wondering too if this has been built
6.8 SPC has another nice trick up its sleeve and that is its performance out of short barrels. I know much attention gets focused out at the long end of the range comparing which 77gr Match bullet from 5.56 offers good terminal performance compared to heavier bullets, but next time you dig up a ballistics chart, find one that shows 6.8 SPC out of shorter barrels. Sweet spot seems to be around 12" or so. You retain better performance than any 5.56 out of a short barrel, but 12 or 12.5 seems to be right where its happiest with slightly lighter bullets (90gr or so) still moving close to 2800fps but without uncomfortably loud flashiness. But it will still reach out past 300m happily with different ammo.
I love my AR pistol in 6.8 SPC. I use them in shotgun zones and no deer stands a chance within 300 yards. I prefer the 10.5 inch barrel just so I can lengthen the buffer tube ans still keep it under 26 inches total length.
I feel the reason people chose the 6.5 creedmoor is because it doesn't beat you up if you wanna shoot all day and still a fine deer round .
Wimps. I could send 200 rds of 762x51 in a day from a rifle with a plastic butt pad, wearing only a shirt and think nothing of it.
The difference with 6.8 Western is heavier bullets, which allows some margin with larger game and extends ranges because the pills have to be longer to be heavier. But the twist has to be tighter for the longer pills... 270 Win and 270 WSM couldn't stabilize these heavy, long pills that are the focus of the 6.8 Western. You can't even buy commercial 6.8 W rounds within the .270 WSM bullet weight ranges, but you could hand load 130s if you want, for an amazingly versatile rifle. I re-barreled a 300 WSM to 6.8, cartridges DO fit with the old WSM magazine etc.
Bet thing I've ever heard him say is that out of all the ridiculous marketing today, you still can't do much better than the 270.
The main reason 270 cal bullets topped out around 150 grns because up until recently all the barrels were made with too slow of a rifling twist too stabilize longer bullets.
Almost convinced me to try a new cartridge. This is coming from a guy that just purchased his first 6.5 Creed this year!! I just can’t give up what I have for something brand new.
You can't have to many rifles or guns I got 30-06, 4different 308's, 2 30-30, 6.5creed, 303British, 50cal.inline, 50cal.flintlock, two 22lr, 3 12gauges 10ga, 16ga, and410 I'm sure all get more down the road
Add to the list...don't replace one for the other lol
I don’t know what it is but I enjoy these podcasts! Keep it up!
(andthe .277 hater) 6.8 Western is a great option. the only problem with the 6.8 Western is sadly a self-perpetuating problem
Gun Store Gary: "Don't buy it because only a few rifle makers make rifles and there's only a few factory loads."
Gun Industry Insider: "We won't make more rifles or ammo unless more people buy it."
Right now our shop is waiting to get the barrels because the 270 barrels usually aren't made with a high enough twist rate for the 6.8 Western and the heavy bullets
I am a reloader and rebarred my Winchester 70 - 270 WSM to a 7½ Twist Brux barrel at SAAMI Specifications. Magazine can handle a 2.965” COL. Lots of reserve powder capacity using H4831SC. I have had the rifle operational for a month and have been testing the key bullets used in the 6.8 Western; 175 Sierra TGK, 170 Berger Elite and 165 Nosler AB LR. I have successfully developed loads for each of these bullets over 3000 fps. I am still finetuning loads, but the Nosler 165 is tuned in at less than ¼ MOA. The170 Berger and 175 Sierra currently just under 1 MOA, more work needed for these loads. I know I can obtain as good as and most likely better results than a factory 6.8 Western. I have tested a number of 130 gr and 140 gr bullets. The 140 gr bullets shoot well, but with the 130s could not get a group better than 1¾ MOA. Thus, I anticipate pour results for the 6.8 Western with bullets 130 gr and under. Bottom Line … I like the accuracy of the 6.8 Western at longer yardages with these heavier bullets, but if you are a reloader there is no need to purchase a 6.8 Western, just rebarrel your 270 WSM and you will have essentially the same gun with more factory ammo options available.
The 270 Win made its reputation shooting a light bullet very fast for an effective flat shooting rifle with light recoil. It shot flatter than the 30-06 with less recoil and was almost as effective on big game. Modern infatuation with long range shooting created these new calibers that shoot heavier for caliber bullets. Lets be honest, for most ethical hunters the advantages at very long ranges are meaningless specially at the cost of more recoil. With all the ballistic software we have access to, we get bogged down with numbers but in reality once you're at the mid-range cartridges it will kill game effectively. From the hunting side of things the only justification for these modern cartridges is the possibility of loading and shooting heavier monolithic effectively for the larger big game. There longer length tends to limit the weight you can load effectively in older design caliber cartridges. It took the 6.5 Creed for hunters to realize light recoiling rifles are easier to shoot accurately. Never forget this.
I’m a huge .270 Winchester fan and would love to have a 270 WSM. That being said, 270 WSM in a .308 case!!! Has really peaked my interest!
Ron spomer has dubbed the 6.8 western his favorite nw cartridge with confirmed kill at 777 fantastic round on paper
1 year ago today, the podcast says the 6.8 western is not as common of a round still, and personally, this is the first time I'm really digging into it. But the Cartridge is being talked about as being a really good choice right now in the world.
Sounds like they Creedmoored the 270wsm, think I like it.
One of the best cartridges and hunting rifles I have shot. NRL Hunter here I come!
My husband bought a 6.8 western last Nov and is loving it.
It is obviously a well designed cartridge for Western hunting. I'm an older school hunter and thus own a .243, a .25-'06, a .270, a 7 MM Rem. Mag, a .30-'06 and a .300 Win. Mag. All way old designs built for relatively slow twist barrels. And I got them all before the advent of the 6.5 Creedmor and recognition of the value of B.C. With those in my safe, I have no need for another rifle - my wife would kill me, and what I have can do everything the 6.8 can - but if I were a new shooter, or needed a single all around cartridge for deer and elk, I think this 6.8 Western might be the one if chambered in a wood stocked rifle I like. Like the one host said, there is really nothing new in firearms ballistics, but what is new is the industry's recognition of the advantage of higher B.C., heavy for caliber bullets that require faster twist rifling, and thus new rifles, or at least new barrels. Some may say, like with 6.5 Creedmor, that it's a solution in search of a problem. But the reality is that like most things, trucks, phones, etc., more modern innovations are better than our nostalgia shrouded, and thus clouded, views of the past. So something like the 6.8 Western is really a better solution to meet a goal - a good all around cartridge to humanely take game at some distance with manageable recoil.
Preach it brother.
Thank goodness somebody gets it. The old cartridges work, but when you listen to enough “older school” folks preaching everything made in the last few decades is “just a fad” and that younger folks “should just stick to the tried and tried cartridges” it’s like they don’t want any advances in firearms and ammunition technology unless it’s somebody trying to “improve” one of the “tried and true” cartridges or firearms of “the good old days”, in which case they may as well admit they want firearms technology to stay pinned to the past and to never evolve.
Yep. I got my first big game rifle in 1982 when I was 14 - a Smith and Wesson branded but really Howa 1500 in .30-'06 - love her and use her to this day and it is a damn fine rifle. But when it comes time to get my own son, who has a .243 already, another rifle, I can't see an objective reason for it not to be a 6.5 PRC but more likely a 6.8 because it seems an outstanding elk round. Comparable or better energy and trajectory than a 7 mm or even a .300 Win Mag and less recoil. It's just the natural improvement of technology. My first cellphone was a Motorola flip phone - it was cool then, and would probably still work fine now but, but it's far inferior to this Samsung Galaxy I'm typing on now, and in relative dollars, the modern Samsung is cheaper.
My first center fire: Winchester Model 70 in 7mm REM Mag. Still my favorite deer/black bear rifle. When I got “hooked” on long range shooting: Browning X-Bolt Max LR 7mmRem Mag with an 8” twist (stabilizes the heavy grain high BCs). The Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56mm enables a net 75+ MOA adjustment (and a 20 MOA rail) = a mile. Check out the superb ballistic performances of Hornady 162 and 190 A-Tip. Compare those numbers! Intended shooting 500-1000-1500-Mile. With the Hawg brake and great shoulder pad: Greatly reduces felt recoil. Ammo availability, versatility and affordability and performance for intended ranges. :]
10 min talk about the 7x64. Most underrated round in America, hyper popular in Europe. I would love to hear their thoughts on the mighty, versatile 7x64!
I will say that I agree. However, if they do that they have to do half the talk on the regular old 280 Remington because 7x64 Brenneke is almost exactly the same ballistically in almost the same case,
If I could only have one rifle it would be my 7x64
6.8 Spc and 224 Valkyrie make a great combat match. 6.8 in short barrel for close combat operations and 224 for long range. Jordan and Saudi uses this combo
And what wars/battles have the Jordanians and Saudis won in the past 500 years ? But seriously, I have both of those rifles. My Valk performs VERY well out of a 18" barrel and is good for 800 meters (maybe more but I suck at anything further.).
Or you could get a 12" grendel and it can do both. 😜😁. Seriously, I haven't taken my short barrel grendel beyond 300 but I know people who ring steel beyond 800 with their little shorty. Whatever works though....
5:40… not just because. The 270 didn’t get heavier bullets due to the slow twist rate of the barrel. Flat shooting was the name of the game back then with lighter bullets. Dial on demand optics have made shooting heavy, great bc bullets the norm now to extend shooting ranges.
I like the cartridge talks. The 6.8 probably would not be in my future since I have two 6.5 CM's but the 300 WSM is another story...
I'm just hoping manufacturer's will catch on and start giving the 'ol 270 a faster twist barrel for these higher b.c. bullets. I'd probly prefer to go that route for my neck of the woods
Proof Research offers 1:7.5 up to 1:10 twist for .277” barrels; Criterion 1:10; Shilen 1:10 also(?). I’m no expert on ballistics, but 1:10 will stabilize a 175 grain bullet in .308 Winchester. I realize that 6.8 Western rifles are coming with 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist rates. However, going from 1:12 to 1:10 should let us get above 150 grain bullets. How far above I don’t know.
The issue with the .270 Winchester was that the standard twist rate theoretically was not fast enough to stabilize bullets that were heavier than 150 grains. The 6.8 Western is the same diameter bullet but the standard rifle will have a faster twist rate in the barrel riflings. Browning actually makes a fast twist .270 Win - which is kind of funny because they are also one of only two manufacturers of 6.8 Western factory ammo.
6.8 spc is the best cartridge for the ar15 platform if you don't get tricked by the manufacturers advertising 6.5 grendel out of a 24 inch test barrel
Would like to see a 10 min talk on the 338 fed.
It's seems to be a good performing round of used in the right situation.
Like the talk on the 270/6.8 wsm, have had a 270 wsm since they came out very awesome cartridge.
if it will work in the AR-10 magazines and platform im interested if not the 308 -6.5 creedmore will have to be my choices and in the ar-15 the 6.5 grendel has been an excellent deer round for me for the last 4 years but seriously they all will do the job if used within their limitations i mean all calibers
Yall keep kicking, love watching these!
I can’t find the articles now to be able to quote the exact numbers, but the designers of the round noted that there were some complaints that even the heaviest 6.5 rounds were not effective/humane in killing larger western game at typical western hunting ranges and 300 magnum rounds were overkill for whitetail. They wanted an intermediate cartridge to do both but also wanted to develop a round that shoot flatter than a 6.5 Creedmoore and hit harder than a 300 Win. Mag using 180 gr bullets at 500 yards. The 6.8 Western accomplishes those goals.
Key factors pointed out in the articles were the facts that the 165 ABLR had a higher BC and larger sectional density than the rounds it was competing against. Aside from BC, sectional density is the measure of a bullets ability to penetrate and thereby cause lethal wounds. Interestingly, a lighter .277 bullet will have a better sectional density than a heavier .308 bullet. Case in point, a 130 gr .277 bullet will generally have a great sectional density than a 150 gr .308 and will nearly equal or exceed that of a 165 gr .308. The sectional density for a given grain weight of .277 bullet will exceed the sectional density of a heavier .308 bullet and that combined with velocity are make the .277 such a “hard hitter.” This phenomenon was demonstrated on another RUclips channel wherein the 140 gr .277 soft point hunting bullets from a 270 Win. would penetrate a still plate but 150 gr FMJ bullets traveling at approximately the same velocity from a 30-06 would not.
270 wsm chamber cut in a faster twist rate barrel, have throat cut deeper for the high bc bullets and you have a 6.8 western but with more powder capacity. Same action length, same magazine
I’d love to see a 10 minute talk on the 300 PRC
WAtch randy selby The real gunsmith. Great info from a guy that builds guns for over 50 years.
+1!!
Do you mean the 7.6 Creedmoor???
I am curious on how you guys feel about the 6.8 western now. Maybe it's a regional thing, but I really don't hear about it in the Appalachian Mountains of South Western Va. Is it going on the lead balloon list?
Thats why I love buying so many rifles because they all play their part depending on your particular application at that time.
I have owned a 270 WSM for years, darn accurate gun (consistent 1/2"-3/4" groups at 100yards with 150gr SGK handloads.), pretty pleasant to shoot, 7mmRem Mag trajectory with noticeably less recoil, drops deer like a bad habit, if that were my only rifle I don't think I would be missing anything, a new and improved version of that with high BC bullets like my 6.5x55 sounds very interesting although I am pretty sure that could shoot game much further than my nerve would allow me to shoot a living thing so I have to ask myself what is the point.
. 270wsm had a lawsuit on it, costing the manufacturer more money to produce guns, this is the same but updated. A second kick at can, .270 WSM is a great cartridge for all the reasons 6.8 Western is probably even better.
6.8 Western vs 6.5 PRC now everybody fight!!
We all know all of us handloaders are gonna see if we can stabilize those new heavy pills in our 270 winchesters!
With the same slow twist rates and massive encroachment on powder space because they aren't designed to shoot long pills? Thats what will keep them from duplicating performance.
can’t really go over 150gr with a factory twist .270
Exactly
ruclips.net/video/5IOYFW8ff4w/видео.html
165 grain out of a 270 wsm tikka
I will always be a 7mm guy, for me its the best balance of ballistics and frontal area (yes this matters when you are talking killing animals and not paper).
Plus many more bullet weights and styles available for 7mm
I was thinkin the same exact thing. They should have just made it the 7mm Western. I think it was done for marketing reasons, as another 7mm wouldnt get the interest like a new 6.8 would. Still, for hunting and reloading purposes, the 7 makes way more sense.
@@John_Redcorn_ maybe if 6.8 takes off I neck it up and shoot 7mm out of it!!
.277 to .284 the animal won't notice the difference in .007". A dollar bill is .005" thick.
I'd like to see a 10 min talk on the 257 Weatherby
Great round. A .25-'06 on crack basically.
257 Roberts, and 250-3000 savage. I think quarter bores interesting Choice for lost of hunters
. 257 will be the next to get the 6.5 and now 6.8 update with a fatter short action case, longer and heavier bullets, and of course the required new rifles with faster twist rate barrels than the old .25s to stabilize the longer heavier bullets. But for shooting at Coues deer in AZ, I am more than happy with 117 grain Superformace or 110 ELD X in my Howa .25-'06. Puts a serious whooping on a deer.
As a fan of the 25.06, I would love to hear about the .25 souper.
@@24kachina I love mine
Tikka short and long action is the same action. Change the bolt stop and use the long action magazine, the 270 wsm can use the heavier bullet. With a longer useable oal positions the bullet better in the case.
Yea, except the barrel twist in the factory wsm is too slow for those long, heavy, high bc bullets. Thats why they designed the 6.8 western.
I will not deny that the .270 Win is a venerable and vaunted cartridge well deserving (most of) its praise.
It's adequately powerful for basically all north American game at appropriate ranges for bullet performance.
The biggest downside is that it's flanked on either side by bullet diameters with substantially more options to choose from in regards to bullet design. As an example, there are a significant number of hunting bullets in various flavors for .277 but there aren't many bullets geared for long range precision shooting (they exist but they're few and far between) whereas the .264 (6.5) and .284 (7mm) have a vast array of bullets for both purposes.
I think the army choosing a 6.8 will give the bullet diameter some success, but I think overall the 7mm is becoming the new 6.5 rather than 6.8 becoming the new 6.5
7mm is becoming more and more prevalent in both the hunting and precision shooting realm with cartridges like .280 Ackley and 7mm-08 coming back into vogue a fair bit (7mag has always remained strong in the hunting community) and new(er) rounds like the 7mm Sherman max and the new SAAMI specs being released for 7PRC.
And please before any 7mag guys jump on me about 7PRC, I get it, it doesn't do anything a custom 7mag with a fast twist and handloads won't do. It DOES give you "custom" 7mag performance with a factory rifle and ammo which is what it was designed to do. You can now use a 7PRC like a custom 7mag gor longer range precision work with a factory rifle with a standardized twist rate and factory ammo made from the ground up to utilize those long sleek bullets with high B.C's
7PRC isn't a "better" 7mag, it's just a standardized "modern" 7mag that takes all of the advancements ballisticians have discovered in the last 60 years. If you have a 7mag that is a bona fide tack driver then I am so very happy for you, but I think 7PRC has the potential to be the long range performer that 28Nosler was too overbore to be, and the 7mag just needed too much tweaking to be an economical choice.
Where’s the bit on the 6.8x51/.277 fury, there’s hardly anything out there on this cartridge and a 16” barreled 500 yd elk gun is the kind of innovation I’m really looking for.
I was waiting for that conversation as well.
Maybe they aren't worth talking about trololololololol lolololol
The 6.8 spc is a great round ..
It's specialty is short barrel performance. It out performs all AR rounds in short barrels.
6.5 Grendel is the king of AR-15's
@@sinistersilverado965 naa... It depends on use ... Short barrel -the 6.8 is better. The 6mm Arc out performs at longer distances. The 450 Bushmaster is great for hunting within 250 yds. The grendel is a do-it-all round but it isn't king in my opinion.when you look at Hornady stats, the grendel performance rating is from 24" barrel but the 6.8 is from a 16" barrel.
260. With the faster twist rate barrel. Love it. 300wsm going to get one soon, 45/70 the best
hes right about one thing any cartridge that uses .308 bullets will always have more utility
The 6.8 spc is just hard to get ahold of. I wish it was more common.
They have factory ammo on the shelf where I live. I reload for the 6.8spc
Probably will never buy a 6.8, but is very interesting. It's great you mentioned a Weatherby, as I bought a Vanguard in 270 two weeks ago. Now I need a scope.
Let us know if you need any recommendations!
Settled on a Burris 4x16-50 long range Fulfield IV. Love it.
68 Western is a very hard-hitting round and stays flat for a long ways out there check out the ballistics on when it goes subsonic it's awesome 1000 foot pounds
It still hasn't taken off yet like the 6.5 prc. I like it too but I worry it won't stay around. If it did sign me up
6.8 western is a .270wsm lite...
@@rmrider92 270 wsm lite? I just picked up a tikka t3x 300 wsm. I woykda thought the 6.8 was similar to 300 wsm?
The new Sig Sauer 6.8 also named the .277 Fury is the real deal, if Sig ever catches up for the civilian market.
The 6.8 Western does everything the .277 Sig Fury does but without the need for crazy high pressures AND with a heavier bullet. The barrel length required is different and the .277 Sig Fury would probably post even better numbers with a longer pipe, but at that point you're losing the purpose of the cartridge. It was made to punch holes in Chinese or Russian body armor from shorter, handy AR-10 sized carbines. Jokes about Russian cardboard armor aside, the average American doesn't need that nor do they want to pay for it. Hunters looking for bolt action rifles can have any number of loadings already well supported by the market. .270 Win, .280 Remington (or .280 AI) 7mm Mag. Even 7mm Mauser comes close to the same ballistic performance as the 6.8x51 but without needing 80k PSI to do it, and without being a barrel burner.
6.8 western center mast
I don’t think having plates will matter
Backface deformation. Just the slap alone is enough to restart the heart lol. Talk about rib crushing.
@@Dunk1It1Hard prior to modern trauma plates, bruised and broken ribs were not unheard of when getting hit in the vest. But you generally survived.
165gr moving at just under 3000fps or 175gr going at nearly 2900fps is some serious slap though.
The Sig 6.8 Fury is their military entry in the M4/M16 & SAW competition.
I'm curious to see the behavior that will come from it being shot out of a longer barrel. I am a fan of spicy lead.
Your right about the statement" Everything old is everything new" especially when applying new theh to it. When your talking the 6.5CM, 260 Rem or 6.5x55 inside of 400 yards you're just splitting hairs. I'm a 6.8 fan from the point I've hunted with a 270 Win longer than you guys have been alive. Inside of 400 what advantage does a 6.8 Western give me over the 270 Win or 270 WSM on dropping game animals ? For that matter what advantages does the 6.8 Western give me over one of the 6.5's for deer ? The bottom line is #1 Bring enough gun. #2 Know your rifle and ammo. #3 Practice, practice, practice. If I had to pick only 1 270 it would be the 270 WSM, enough for everything burning less powder than the Western or Weatherby. As an eastern deer hunter the 6.8 Western doesn't really interest me especially considering the cost of powder lately.
You basically promote the 6.8 with this comment. Why not 6.8 that has greater capability at over 400 yards than something similar at shorter distance that does not have that added range advantage? (ignoring that the 6.8 also has heavier weight bullets that may have better terminal effect on bigger game as well)
@@robrechtart Why would you shoot anything over 400 yards ? Your just showing your complete ignorance of extended hunting and what the new, heavier bullets are designed for.
Once you’re shooting over 400 yards ethics come into play. There’s no problem with a miss but a gut shot animal is nothing anyone wants and it’s easy to do at those ranges.
The longer, heavier bullets are designed for the PRS crowd who need better flight over 500 yards and it has nothing to do with hunting.
@@hardball107 You can use it for both hunting and PRS beyond 400 yards. Basically a dual use cartridge. Plus, under 400 you have higher terminal effect. At 400, 500 etc..., where a fair amount of Western hunters take game the terminal effect differences are pronounced. Longer heavier bullets also penetrate better if you are hunting and come across grizzly that is not friendly. Why do you say why when a lot of people shoot over 400 yards? ...in fact, long range shooting has become extremely popular.
@@robrechtart Not in the hunting fields. Out West maybe, take it out to 500 but most people that claim that are total BSers that probably never pulled a trigger in the field.
The increased velocity and flatter trajectory of a slightly lighter bullet out to 500 yards is a better hunting choice because of it’s higher energy.
If you don’t believe me look it up besides anyone hunting at ranges over 500 yards is IMHO totally unethical and will result in a total miss or a gut shot animal. You can’t predict wind on a moving target unless you’re really good and few are. Inside of a 500 yard limit a heavier bullet gives you no advantage.
@@hardball107 on your lighter bullet comment, wind deflection tends to be more important than flatter trajectory at distance.
sure hype it, say it goes 100 FPS faster with less powder, then wash and repeat with another new caliber....
The love for 270 deteriorated very quickly haha
You guys have to talk about the 300 blackout and the revolution of super short high twist barrels for long range sub-sonic that's starting now that 8.6 blackout is out.
The 270 wsm shoots the 165gr matrix just fine beyond 600yrds. Can't see it going away anytime soon.