Ep. 141 | America's Cartridge - What is it?
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2020
- You’ve heard it before - “America’s team”, “America’s truck”, “America’s Dairyland” (It’s still Wisconsin no matter what the people from Cali tell you), but how about America’s cartridge? Ryan Muckenhirn joins Jimmy and Mark to each discuss their opinion of what America’s cartridge is and why. Judging by our past cartridge podcasts, we know there’s bound to be plenty of differing opinions on this one, so we’d love to hear yours in the comments on youtube or on our Instagram page - go let us know your thoughts and whether you agree with any of the three on this episode, or have a completely different cartridge you think should have been mentioned!
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30-06, done
I thiught the same.
Me too
First thing that came to mind won a world war , chambered in semiautomatic, machine guns, bolt actions, it just want go away. And was my first deer rifle cartridge I started hunting with as a kid.
I bet more people own a 308 then a 30/06 in america
@@horsefly1020 that's close. But I'd say more people own the 06
Jim at the end quoted every friendly gentlemen's argument ever, "I don't hate the WSM, I just hate the fact that Mark loves the WSM."
At least he's being honest😂
The wsm's are pretty far ahead of their times. If you put the 300 WSM next to the 300 PRC you might think that Hornady copied Winchester. I believe they did. And they just extended out the freebore for higher BC rounds. In fact if I single-fed my 300 WSM I could probably run much longer BC rounds as well
My personal favorite is the .308.
To add one thing to Ryan's choice (308 specifically) you can get literally any weapon design chambered in 308 in america, any rifle developed in the last 40 years (large enough to chamber it) HAS been chambered in 308. You can get anything from a Thompson center single shot break action to a lever action, to an AR10 (functionally just a bigger "America's rifle" AR15) ANY gun large enough to chamber it has been chambered in it. It is by far the most common full power rifle round in the country, I can walk into literally any store that sells guns and ammo (notwithstanding the shortage) and find 308 AND a gun chambered in it and walk out with a rifle, scope, and a box of ammo for under $1000 and trust that the rifle will at least function safely if not with outstanding accuracy.
So true.
Not to mention the US forced it through NATO when there were better options. Look up the original CETME cartridge intermediate cartridge with a 1,000 meter effective range, and the US crushed it out of existence cause. .308!
@@acester86 Doesn't change the fact that .308 is insanely ubiquitous, cheap to shoot, and can take any game in NA with proper bullet selection. Regardless of how it got here, it's still an absolute juggernaut.
.308 would be my pick followed by the .22lr.
Yep, what the ammo shortage has taught is the only thing you can count on is 308, 223, 12 ga, 22lr, and 9mm
From coyotes, 55 gr. Exelerators to 220 gr elephant killers. LONG LIVE THE 30.06!!!
Honestly the more I look at and study newer rounds the more I just want to go back to the old reliable Winchester Model 70 Sporter in 30-06 with a good old fashioned 150 grain Nosler Partition Bullet.
@@willrowell3218 I am thinking about the same thing or 270.
@@willrowell3218 Now that is American classic!
Yep, and .38spl or .45LC in handguns. Honorable mention for the.30-30 BTW.
the 30-06 is not allowed to be used on elephants, in any country that allows elephant hunting.
the minimum energy required is usually 5000 ft lbs.
the 30-06 cannot get near that.
"I bet the guy in the shiney golf shirt shoots a 6.5 Creedmore"..... I laughed my a$$ off. So true.
Shiney shirt guy and Mark both sit down to pee!
6.5 would need 100 years of fending off challengers, winning wars, and spawning successful rounds to compete with the 06.
I agree the 6.5creed is on its way to spawning in rounds 25creedmoor,6creedmoor,22creedmoor . That said 06 is king
Can’t argue with this .
.308 7.62 by 51 been kicking butt and killing deer too.
Well its a good thing 6.5 has been around for more than 100 years
6.5 caliber has been around longer than the 06.. maybe not in the creedmoor but the caliber been around the world since the 1800s and has fought in more wars and taken more game than the 06 could even think about. Winning a war has nothing to do with a cartridge. The 06 didn't win a war. World War 1 and 2 was won by many different countries efforts not just 🇺🇸. And one or another 6.5 cartridge was in both of those wars on the allied forces.
30-06 I have a mildewed ratty yellow box of ammo from my grandpa who died in 1965 in my gun safe and his rifle. He didn't have a 6.5mm anything he had a 30 caliber and I have his marksmanship awards from his ww2 service for rifle which was shot with a 30-06. All of his arguments plus my grocery store even in this ammo shortage has 30-06 in the cabinet so does Ace hardware.
Excellent discussion, guys. Loved it. For me, being born post WWII, it’s .30-06 forever. But, I do own 16 different cartridges, and love them all.
"america's cartridge" is actually many cartridges.
45/70, .45 colt, .45 acp, 30-30, 30-06, 308 (7.62), .223 (5.56) etc ... depending on the era / generation.
Yeah, all of those are contenders in my mind, but nothing can top the .30-06 overall.
@@Kaiserland111 i disagree.
many of them can do anything a 30-06 can do.
but we can both be right. )
@@Kaiserland111 agree to disagree )
@@Kaiserland111 308 tops the 30-06 in many ways, many more guns available, and it only tops a .308 in performance if you want to go heavier than a 180gr bullet, which isn't necessary anyway
True .... True .....
Thank you for bringing up the fact that the 30-06 is not only a great cartridge itself, but the parent case for many other great hunting cartridges.
And itself the child of 7x57...
kieranh2005 It was the child of the .30-03 which was the child of the .30-01 which had no parent case to my knowledge, if I’m wrong please share your source with me.
@@kieranh2005 which came from the old version of 8mm Mauser...
The rapid organic growth and acceptance of the 6.5 Creedmoor is pretty remarkable. Hats off to Mark for making a case for it. The easy choice was the 30-06 or maybe 30-30, but he went out on a limb and went for the Creed. Made for a good discussion.
He did, but Mark went back and forth several times, eventually agreeing that the .30-06 is America's Cartridge. Flip-flopping is also being open-minded; I appreciate his open minded approach, as many shooters are stoic and set in their thinking, similar to truck enthusiast… Ford v Chevy v Ram, etc. The .30-06 is America's Cartridge.. and Ram is America's Truck. ha
@MrBurdinekl a ram is a broken truck. And is anything but America's truck. They are owned by fiat and that is a fact. If anything ford or Chevrolet are America's trucks.
@@Auto-Tech-Matt
Ha, yup, the Ram is Italian. Isn’t Chevy mostly Chinese now? Are Ford trucks made in Mexico?
@@ChitFromChinola if we are being honest with ourselves. Toyota is now a more American truck than any of the "American trucks"
@@Auto-Tech-Matt
I actually don’t know. At least Ford is American ownership, I guess.
These podcasts read like the conversations I have with myself in my head
Like my grandfather told me long ago, a man only needs 4 guns. I have a Winchester model 70 in 270, a Remington Targetmaster 22 bolt action, a Browning A5 12 gauge and a Colt Combat Commander in 45 ACP. I've made it 60 years with these four and I don't plan on changing now
I’d submit that an AR-15 should be added to that list, though your grandfather was spot on for several decades.
Big game, gun, pistol, plinker, shotgun. LOL mine are .308, 9mm (veteran, thus chose service weapons for personal use), 12 gage, 10-22.
I love my 25-06.
Great cartridge👍🏻
Agree!! I can't get enough of my 25-06...building a .308 now, more useful than the 6.5cm in my opinion
The .25-06
it hits like a .270 with the recoil of a .243
👍🏽 even better when hand loaded.
@@HarrisonCountyStudio i run a 100gr nosler ballistic tip Bullet with Hogden 4831sc powder.
It’s amazing round that reaches 3200 feet/second, and can still Dump enough energy to expand the bullet.
Yep one of the finest flat shooting out there
@@jcav788 yep nothing you can’t do with those two cartridges
In the early 80's,I had my 243,among other guns,we're stolen,and at 15 yrs old,I realized that I had the opportunity to buy a rifle that I could use for the rest of my life,not knowing if I would ever hunt anything more than whitetail deer,but if I did,I could use the same gun and round.So,after many hours of reading reloading manuals and magazine articles,I decided to buy a Ruger M77 in '06,and I have never regretted that decision,I still have that rifle while others have come and gone.I know I can buy or handload rounds that will take any game on earth,where legal.Yes,it's heavy for somethings to light for others,but yet it's been proven worldwide.As far as longer range shooting,it might not be the best,but I sure wouldn't want someone to shoot at me with one,I would definitely be looking for cover.All things considered,I think they are right,the 06 will cover the most scenarios that you can imagine being in.
This is why the 7mm-08 is the perfect hunting round within 500 yards. Very low recoil that you can reload with a slightly heavier bullet and better frontal diameter. You can get over 3000 fps if you want but 2850 is money and it and won’t destroy your meat. It’s been around for 40 years and still doesn’t get the credit it deserves. If Hornady had created it you’d be talking about it in this video.
Simone Stella - that's a big claim "perfect hunting round" 7mm-08.
What criteria are you using ? I can think of 4 cartridges that beat your pick in 5 areas. Power, sectional density, accuracy, availability, price per round. Even the 6.5 creadmore is a real contender over your pick.
Dane Lobe “Power”? You mean energy? It retains 1000 ft-lbs at 500 yards. Sectional density is MORE than adequate, better than the .308. Accuracy is COMPLETELY about your ability. Mine shoots .39 MOA thank very much. Availability? It’s 2020. You can order anything online if you want to. Cost? You need one round to bring down your game within ethical hunting distances. I completely reject all of your arguments. Remember, I said the perfect HUNTING round, not 1000 yard match round. I have NOTHING against other calibers, but if someone who doesn’t want to practice wants to lob cheap 6.5 bullets at animals all season, go nuts. I’ll be dropping them with my 120 gr. TTSX with one shot.
@@wasachevyguy order ? Are you serious ? If I land in adak Alaska or some other remote location in the world I'm NOT going to find 7mm-08 rounds behind the counter. So that's wrong (#1)
Energy isn't the same as power.
So that's an incomplete argument. Power as in KO, involves velocity, bullet B.C. and penetration. Bullet speed is half the equation. Wrong (#2) Your not getting .39 MOA out of factory ammunition so that's an incompletely false comparison. (#3). And lastly your 3,000fps 120gr bullet sighted in at 0.0 @ 150yards only has 842fpe @ 500 yards and drops -44.9" so your wrong about your "perfect hunting round in all 5 areas. I was just using the 6.5 to show you how weak it is, it's not one of the calibers I would pick over the 7-08 it was just a reference. Truth is the 7-08 is an under performer on game, why it's so unpopular. There are better factory hunting calibers. There's a reason the 6.5 is exploding on the horizon, and the 7mm-08 didn't, but both calibers lack in all areas I need for an ultimate hunting round. It's a ballistic twin to the 7x57 and your calibers been around since 1956 it just never caught on. Performance is why, there's better out there and you know it, so does the world.
I was shocked to hear the 6.5 creedmoor even mentioned in that podcast. As for the 7mm-08, it is the favorite hunting caliber in the southeast US for almost my entire family. I give the nod to the .30-06 because of its chambering in the main battle rifles of the US in World War 1 and 2, and Korea. On top of that it can also harvest all game in NA, yes with more meat damage, but the 7mm-08 just doesn’t have the history to go with the effectiveness. Also there are a few great rounds in the application your discussing, I doubt all hunters will ever agree on a perfect cartridge for even a single application let alone several applications. The episode was titled America’s Cartridge, not hunting cartridge, prs cartridge, or military cartridge.
@GastonGross ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha your probably right and they all hunt on game reserve's, not hunting deer that don't want to die and have survived countless run ins with hunters.... I've killed bucks durring the rut with 12gu, double lung shots and they still covered 200 yards before giving up.
I said .30-30 before watching. I'm sure I'm not even close.
I'm all for a new 'American' cartridge, the 5.56x99mm. A .50BMG case necked down to 5.56 (.224). Of course the bullet will probably turn into plasma because of velocity. Lets see Mr. Muckerhirn discuss the various bullet weights.
By the way, love this series.
"America's Cartridge - What is it?"
I would have thought Americas cartridge would be the most popular one...you know, 22lr! I didn't know the criteria was big game hunting or its use in warfare. My runner up to 22lr would have been 12ga so that would have been at least a little closer to where they all went. My 2nd runner up would have been 9mm so not so much there [I know its metric but popularity trumps imperial vs metric IMO]. I thought Ryan was going to say 45/70 for sure, and I would have lost money on that. I also would have lost money on the fact that none of them said 223rem/5.56 [even though I am biased towards its peers]. Fun exercise in POV.
I m agreeing with you
Military/sporting history, broad range of utility/effectiveness, pure longevity of production, the fact that it’s STILL the standard by which all cartridges are measured, the number of cartridges spawned from its case...hands down the 30-06 is easily America’s cartridge IMHO. Fun discussion guys.
Mark, I’m in your corner on the Short Mag...love my 300WSM Model 70
I'd agree with with those who voted .30-30. It's an American cartridge from 1895 that has take a lot of North American game. Obviously not the 'best' cartridge for everything, but it's record and popularity can't be ignored. It's hard to think of a cartridge that is more "America's Cartridge" than the venerable thirty-thirty.
As much as I like 6.5 Creedmore aside from me owning one and .270 being my favorite cartridge I still believe 308 is America’s cartridge because is the most abundant cartridge you can kill almost anything in the American continent with it with the right load my opinion!
If you only shoot your deer rifle 4 or 5 times a year 30-06 or .270.The 6.5 cm craze will pass it doesn't kill whitetail any better than a .243
1st is 30-06. There are so many cartridges based upon it's case, 270, 25-06, 280. 2nd is 308 because of the same reasons, many cartridges based on the case 243, 260, 7-08 and our military history they both developed from.
*Edit
Ok.. I admit, I commented before watching... dude, 6.5 creedmore? No, dude, just nope. I do agree that it's popular. I'm actually old now, you're making me realize that.
And to the point of the creedmore taking off.. it's really really good marketing. 260 Remington? 6.5x55 Swede? 6.5x284 norma? It's the first mainstream (in the states) 6.5, of course it's loved. I agree, it's obviously a good cartridge. But to pick it as "America's cartridge".. over 3006 M1 Garand / 03 Springfield food... Really?
100% agree. I do think an argument can be made that 6.5 CM is the best all round cartridge on the market for all the reasons listed in the video, but if we're talking about "America's Cartridge" then legacy is at least as important as performance, and there is no cartridge on the market right now that not only has its own extensive legacy but is also responsible for multitudes of cartridges that are legendary in their own right quite to the level of the 30-06 (especially if you consider 308 to be a shortened 30-06 and include its legacy as part of the 30-06).
It’s just marketing
It astounds me that most of us here in the States find the 6.5 CM “revolutionary”. Sure it’s an awesome cartridge but the Scandinavians have had a cartridge of near similar ballistics for 100+ years now.
.30-06 served in both World Wars in addition to one of the most versatile rounds! That makes it America's cartridge!
Both world wars and countless deer/elk/moose/bear/antelope have been taken with the old aught six.
i can say the same for the 45-70, the 45 colt, and the .45 acp. ... all three served longer than the 30-06, and in multiple wars/ battles.
by your criteria ... all three of those are america's cartridge.
@@grayman7208 love all those cartridges could go along with your thoughts, but the sheer number of Americans carrying an M1 Garand and later deer hunting beat out even in .45-70, though it might be closer than I realize.
@@mussersbowsboatsandscience6610
45-70 in service since 1873.
tamed the west.
with the right bullet ... capable of killing everything in the world.
gaining popularity.
30-06 in service since 1906 ... two wars ... not capable of killing everything on earth.
not as popular as once was.
i'll take the 45-70.
@@grayman7208 I am assuming your not talking about blue whales for anything in earth. But yeah .30-06 and .303 and .270 have killed elephants. Roosevelt took .30-06 for 1909 Safari along with the .405 and Hemingway killed a running Rhino with .30-06. These red blood Americans didn't take the .45-70. WWI and WWII was the biggest modern wars we ever dealt. Small pox probably tamed the west as much as anything. No problem with .45-70 though, just think it is runner up.
The crayons are for those Marine guests to the pod cast 😉
It is like a candy bowl, but different lol
Go to any village store up here in Alaska, what is the cartridge always on the shelf? 30 06
Dam right no matter where you go it will be there
Says a lot
Cause nobody buys it LoL
30-06 is the alaskan rifle. Even Alaska fish and game recommends it as the alaskan big game rifle for everything.
270 winchester should be recognized as americas cartridge imo. But if not that I'd give it to the 30-30. Great video!
30-30 is the George Washington of cartridges. Lend it some sugar!
My first high power was a 22-250. Loved it. Still do.
A beauty of American gun culture is that it has so many cartridges.
Very interesting take on Creedmoor. My buddy and I guessed the winner before watching, and never even considered the 6.5.
6.5 Creedmoor is quickly becoming the cartridge I love to hate. It's a good round in and of itself, but it is far from America's cartridge. .223, .308 and 30-06 are the real red, white, and blue cartridges. The fact that they helped us win multiple wars gives them an edge over a lot of others.
hell yeah brother
I’m an Australian so I can’t judge but I just don’t think the 6.5 creed has been around long enough to know if it will be for ever in favor with the shooting public. I remember when the 222 was the biggest thing in my country now can’t find a box of bullets. Let’s just wait and see. 308 all the way, my favorite
I watched a few episodes of Vortex Nation, and am a fan; you have a great dialogue, a lot of give and-take when good points are raised, and I really enjoyed this video in particular. There is a fascination with newer callers and the marketing hype, I was surprised when the 6.5 Creedmore was initially named. I have a big collection of rifles and shotguns, ranging from .22’s up to .45-70’s. My favorite hunting rifle is a .300 Model 99, and I have taken Deer and Ella with it within 200 yards. I agree with the .30-06 as the all around rifle, and think the 7mm Rem Mag is a close second.
We hunters, shooters, that Bears, Moose, Bison, and Elk were hunted, and continue to be hunted, with muzzleloaders, .30-30’s, .45-70’s. As time has passed and new chambering came out, many, if not most with the means to do so, op, acquired new rifles in different calibers, with greater velocity, power, and range.
Can a .30-06, or for that matter, a 6.5 Creedmore kill a Moose, Bison, or Brown Bear? Without a doubt! Accuracy, bullet selection, shot placement and range become critical considerations.
I’d have to go. with the greater power of the ‘.06 for a big Bear, but would much prefer my .348, .35 Whelen, or .45-70, rather than use an ‘.06 as the primary. I’d feel even less confident with the Creedmore.
lol, you guys are hilarious from busting Mark's chops to the caddy of golf being the spotter of golf.
I'd pick a 270 over a 6.5, but could never replace a 30-06. I could pick something else "in addition to" the 30-06, but never "over" the 30-06.
You want to know a funny story since my initial posting of this? Just the other day my wife walked in with a new rifle... 6.5 Creedmoor.
The 308 is clearly America’s Cartridge. With the 7mm-08 getting honorable mention. 🇺🇸💪🇺🇸
My nieces agree on the 7mm-08 of course their dad loads and uses. .22 hornet for deer and varmint
The design criteria , and whole point for the .308 was to take advantage of advances in propellants to DUPLICATE the performance of the .30-06 in a shorter case .
Is that an important parameter for military automatic and select fire weapons , or massive supply chains where a fraction of an ounce per ctg can make a difference when shipped a truckload , or railcar at a time ? Yes . A meaningful difference for most civillian shooters / hunters ? Usually not . It could if you were building a 5lb or less mountain rifle , where each 0.1 of ounce matters . Or if your controlling parameter was to use a platform that only handled short action ctgs , like sat a M99 Savage .
Meanwhile , while the 1957 .308 could match 1906 era specs for the '06 with modern powders , the .30-06 can likewise use modern powders to bump up another 150- 200 fps .
There is variation and overlap , but traditional twist rates are 1:10 for '06 , and 1:12 for .308 . This , combined with larger case capacity , gives the '06 an advantage with 200-220 gr bullets . But admittedly our current proliferation of premium controlled expansion 180gr bullets makes suitability for 220gr a trivial thing .
Is the .308 a fine ctg , of a performance class suitable for all around use for 'most everything ? Yes of course . Is the 7-08 a fine ctg ? You betcha ! Duplicating the 7x57 is a fine, goal , and with modern , common parent brass . You could make a strong argument that US/ NATO should have adopted something like the 7-08 back in the 1950s instead of .308 .
But alas , the .308 is " almost as good as " the '06 , and the .30-06 remains The Cartridge that is the yardstick against which every aspect of every cartridge is measured .
Not to mention the 308 birthed the 243 win so there a huge plus as well
.308 birthed so many rounds just as the 30-06 both are great. I love.308 myself it’s one of the only .30 cals mass produced in rifles and ammo. .308 or 30-06 is like that person everyone loves and respects like you ask for a good rifle in .30 cal that can kill all big game and medium game in America it’s gonna be one of the two.
How does nobody mention the 30-30 lever action? Though I do always fall back on and hunt big game with...... the 30-06 all around rifle. Great show!
my sentiments exactly.
Lever guns are definitely more popular in America than a lot of other places, but 30-30 certainly has some disadvantages. Newer ammo, like LEVERevolution, have made older cartridges like 30-30 and 45-70 more viable, but there’s certainly limitations (distance and/or animal size) that maybe they didn’t consider.
I've never owned a 6.5 Creedmoor Yet but that's probably going to be my next rifle I must agree with Mark on the 6.5 it does not matter what caliber you have you can have a 30-06 or a 300 Win Mag or a 7 Mag but if you don't shoot straight and hit in the vitals you're probably going to chase your game across the planet and may not ever find it The 6.5 will drop most big game on the face of the earth if you hit in the vitals You can take a bow and arrow and kill sny kind of game regardless of how dangerous it is if you hit in the vitals I think the same thing about the 6.5 or any other caliber as far as that goes Hunter's must practice with their weapon of choice before they ever go hunting and always shoot for the vitals I believe with a double lung shot you can kill anything easily
Loved it your right I have had a 3006 for about 40 years and when the hunt “money “ is on the line I always take my 3006. There’s been times that hunt cost me over 6000 dollars and my 3006 has never let me down
Can’t believe it took me a year to find this. I love it!!! I would pick 30-06 all day personally. But I appreciate all these views. And I want to say Kudos on the 62 cal ball. Thank goodness we live in this great country that allows us to have these conversations, and own a Golf Bag of specific tools for the application!!! Absolutely awesome guys!
I laughed when he mentioned fixing some states with a couple .62 cal balls but then they caught themselves
First, I have to say that I love what you guys are doing! The amount of knowledge as it relates to all the different cartridges, is just off the charts. Maybe you’ve already done one and I missed it, but what I would love to hear about, are all of the 6mm variations. Namely 6 Dasher, 6 GT, 6 BR, 6 CM, 6 ARC, Etc… For those of us who are looking for extreme precision in competition, but also a round that we can stretch out distance wise as well and specifically, which ones would be a good all around round for both applications. Thanks. Keep up the great work!
Unbiased the 30-06 is America’s most versatile cartridge...period
Not everyone can shoot the 30-06 comfortably so how can it be america's rifle
jlarocque84 because it can take any game in North America and you are not undergunned
The .25-06 is probably the most versatile. It kicks less than a .270 and has taken every type of game in North America. Yes, everything. Very flat shooting, good ballistics and can be loaded to take everything from a ground hog to a moose.
@@jlarocque84 because it is 115 year old, still absolutely effective, and has killed every land animal on the planet
I love how the discussion continues after the podcast ends. Shows passion.
Favorite part of the video was the off air part at the end talking about Mark’s new 300WSM build. I shoot Federal Terminal Ascent for moose in my xbolt, had good results with ELD-X and Berger hybrid
270 or 3006 America's cartridge.
Exactly my thoughts.
No one ever thinks of the 270 winchester and I'm not sure why. With Nosler Accubond LR bullets it out performs the 308,30-06,6.5,243, 260, and many others at long range plus with a good muzzle break the recoil is light. You can also take anything from coyotes to moose with it no problem, plus its cheap to reload and ammo is easy to find.
Agree
A truly wonderful cartridge and with the adoption of the 6.8 fury in the military arsenal we might see a renewed interest in .270 caliber
I just left the Creedmoor clan and went back to the 308. As a hand loader I found that I can get more as a hunting round from the 308. Especially at normal hunting distances.
I left creedmore recently as well. I hate having to have a longer barrel. I'm shooting out of AR10 platform weapon systems. .308 or 7.62 NATO is where I will stay atleast for the foreseeable future
My story started in the 80's when surplus swedish mausers hit the gun shows. I fell in love with the 6.5 caliper. Then the 260 came out but fizzled. Then everything felled into place with the 6.5 CM. That round has muffled the 7-08.
If only one 30/06 . But I would love a golf bag full of everything!!!
Are there a plethora of comparitively newer cartridges that are also good cartridges ? Of course . But the definitive , quintessential American Rifle Cartridge is the .30-06 . Period , end of sentence .
I love the 270 and I just bought a 270 wsm for just a little extra.
I believe the 30-06 is South Africa's favourite rifle as well. I would not hunt the Big Five with it but for everything else it just works.
I have hunted with my 30-06 for the past 20+ years and it has not failed me once. 165gr Nosler Accubonds at 2890fps gives me .3 inch groups at 100m and kills the big guys very effectively.
I have dabbled with other rifles for all round hunting, 308, 300WM, 270 etc but they just did not have it all.
When I go hunting the first thing that gets packed is my 30-06.
Great podcast guys!
That was great. You guys all rock but Mark makes the videos perfect.
👍 Glad I listened all the way to the end!
I have a 6.5 and I love it. That being said, when I go hunting I take the 30.06 because there’s just something about it.
I just can’t forsake my beloved 270 for a 6.5. With my 270 I get basically the same projectile size with extra gas.
That 6.8 O'Connor is a hell of a round. My personal favorite as well
Dont do it, your 270 gives more energy. 6.5 is a overrated deer/varmit round, not a elk round at all (depending on what range you limit yourself)
If it ain’t broken...
The 270 could do with a faster twist & slippery bullets . I’m a massive fan , but I just got a 6.5 grenade just because it does the job & it’s mild & light .
Really enjoyed this. Good job guys. You just earned a new subscriber.
Glad you enjoyed! :)
Good conversation! Good points all around.
Good discussion here. I'll watch more of this channel.
I agree with the 6.5 Creed. I thought it was funny that you had to preface the "low recoil" comment. wasnt that long ago we were making fun of people wanting to tame the .308s recoil. The 6.5 creed came on fast but I wouldn't call it americas cartridge until that last 2 years.
Great video! As the founders go, accurate rifles were only used for hunting because they died by the bayonet in previous attempts at military use because of the slow reload time compared to musket. Washington was the first general to use them successfully in battle because he won most of his battles in retreat, changing the common view of “gaining the field” as victory to the kill ratio determining victory.
I love the podcasts! However.......... Ultimate America's Caliber. 12 Gauge! From defending your family, police defending your community, putting birds or big game on the table. The iconic sound of "racking" a pump, the beauty of a break action, the sportiness of a semi auto. It is the ultimate America's Round. (for the record, if it was strictly rifle caliber then I would agree 30-06).
Since this is America, I want all the cartridges 😀
I'll stay with my 7mm-08.
You guys have a lot of good points. My perspective is whatever your comfortable with and enjoy shooting And we can make it work in whatever area you want. 30 06 is a good round for hunting and 308 is also an excellent round, I’ve taken more deer withe a 243 than anything but I wouldn’t go Brown bear hunting in Alaska with it
Ryan, in his _immense_ knowledge & experience, is constraining his interpretation of "America's cartridge" to hunting and wilderness survival... Listening to Mark's list he really was starting off with a much more fundamentally broad list of priorities! (Whether 6.5 Creed or not) "America's cartridge" needs to be more than 'best hunting' or 'best reloading' round -- Hey Ryan: semi-auto is a prevalent platform in the 21st century; even if not just for hunting!
Much respect to all -- not hating on any; but a subject this broad isn't intended to be limited to 'hunting' only.
What a great example of 3 perspectives. When I saw the title 30-6 definitely jumped to the front of my mind.
30-06. You can’t win world wars without it.
Hello Gentleman.. I stumbled on this video as I am trying to learn the difference between different cartridges. I am a new hunter. The 2021 season was my second year and I am hunting with a 20 Gauge. I got my first deer this year. I am looking to order a new rifle for the 2022 season and I am going nuts trying to figure out which cartridge I should get. I was leaning towards the 6.5 snd the 30-06. In my mind the 30-06 was best for what I am trying to do. I think it's safe to say this great conversation may have made up my mind. The 30-06 will be my choice. Great conversation gentleman!!
25-06, .350 Legend, or .270 for me.
6.5 Creedmoor is a damn good pick. But the "walking around with a golf cart full of different guns" remark was the right answer.
The obvious answer is in fact the 30-06 as it’s the “father” of the modern American military/sporting cartridges. Though one could argue that it was inspired by the effectiveness of the 7x57 Mauser round... I’m a 7mm/28 Caliber guy myself so I’d probably never buy anything in a 6.5mm or a 30 caliber because they all largely do the same thing at appropriate ranges. The differences are so minuscule and argument can easily be made for or against one another but in reality they’re all about the same thing. 30 caliber and 7mm still have the most wide variety of components available if one were to reload as there are 7mm bullets between 100-195gr (and the 30 Cal has 100-250gr bullets available.) I can’t get with the idea of the 6.5 Creedmoor as America’s round personally... it’s a capable cartridge in it’s own right, there are legitimate reasons that it may be the best all-around military round for DMR and battle rifle roles... but it doesn’t do much of anything that other mid range medium bore (read something in the 6-8mm range) cartridges don’t do. The commercial success has more to do with marketing than anything I feel because in many way the 260 Remington is likely superior and the 6.5 Lapua potentially had more consistency. Where the Creedmoor is/was successful is in that there was a more modern standard set for it, gun makers were encouraged to maintain a high standard of components with faster twist barrels, high quality reloading components, and it’s rapid adoption into competitive sports. Good on Hornady and their marketing team but in many states a 6.5 isn’t a legal caliber to hunt elk where 27 caliber is the minimum. This eliminate the cartridge for certain considerations outside of western states... honorable mention can be given to the 7mm Remington Magnum too but the only REAL answer is the 30-06 as America’s cartridge... and I say that again fully disclosing that I’d never buy one for myself as capable as it may be.
What 7s do you shoot/have a preference for? Just curious.
I believe Mark was spot on. You can buy the 6.5 CM right off the shelf, place a decent scope on it, purchase several different bullet grains, and more importantly, readily available ammo either for hunting or target.
The 6.5 CM takes down a good number of animals ( shot placement permitting ), and it’s shooter friendly ( easy recoil ).
I love my Wetherby 300 mag, and Kimber 84M 308, but how can you beat that 6.5 CM and it’s easy to use all around abilities!
Hmmm, you may also consider it as the new survival caliber in today’s rifle market.
It’s certainly created a niche for itself in a relatively short period of time…..
The 264. Winchester magnum blows the 6.5 creedmoor out of the water in every category except recoil
Yes i hate 6.5 creedmoor, but thats like saying the 28 nosler blows the little 7mm08 out of the water lol
30-06 is gran dad. His kids have been just great. 280 ackley is outstanding, 25-06 and 35 Whelen are amazing as well.
The best thing we've come up with at this point is 7prc, but that wasn't out 2 years ago was it?
IMO the most American modern cartridge for small arms is the 6.5 Grendel. Man moves from across the pond to get into the gun game and proceeds to work out the Grendel for AR platforms. It's a shame it is slowing down.
45-70 then 30-06, then 308, now 5.56/223 if you're talking rifle. Overall it would probably be 30-06 due to ubiquity and length of time. Was 45 acp or 38/357 mag but now 9mm for pistol.
America's cartridge requires that it was developed in America. 9x19 luger was not.
The Creed is a dandy cartridge though highly over hyped. The 7-08 will push a higher BC bullet at higher velocities though. I love my Creed, it's a really good round. But that's all it is, a really good round amongst many. Thanks for the vid.
I grew up near the Crayola factory. All of their pack sizes are in multiples of 8 with the exception of the 4 pack. Hence the 96 count and not 100 count.
As a kid who ate boxes of crayons, I was going to say the same thing. Boxes of 8...
The crayons are for hungry Marines that visit the studio. ;)
Seriously, though, "America's cartridge" should have much to do with history, widespread adoption, and have a beloved reputation. As much as I love 6.5 Creedmoor, you have to choose something with more history. As much of an effect on US history as the .62 lead ball had, it was replaced as soon as practical, and only was widely adopted because there were really other options. It wasn't a "cartridge" either, as the powder, ball, wad, etc. were all separate, at least originally. Some contenders could be the .45 ACP, the .45-70 Gov't, the .30-30, the .22 LR, and the .223/5.56 mm. However, I'm with Ryan on the .30-06. That gun hits all the criteria to be America's rifle, from winning world wars, hunting all game in North America, and being popular for over 100 years.
The 62 caliber ball! 😂. Well done sir!
I want to hear about the 35 whelen. I own 3 of them and love the .35 cal. for hunting. The 700BDL I have with a 200 grain nosler partition pushed at 2940 fps gets half inch groups at 100 yards. It is absolutley deadly out to 300 yards.
I'm with you 💯
I keep hearing about the 35 Whelen, it sounds interesting
Whelen is good but kicks alot more. Most people don't wana shoot it . I'm w you love it but facts are kost are to recoil sensitive to give it the light it deserves
7.62 x 51 nato! Freedom all day with this caliber
.30-06 short
sadly, NATO does not equate to Freedom
Crayola boxes are typically multiples of 8. Their cardstock inserts are presided for 8 crayons. The box sizes are designed to utilize those inserts.
Definitely agree. 30-06 Americas cartridge. Your long range moose gun 338 Ultra Mag.
True the 68 round ball did help create our nation, but the ought six is what brought about the era of American supremacy. American riflemen with '06 rifles turned the tide in WW1 and made a name for themselves. It was the 1st cartridge produced and supported by modern industry at a scale not seen before, after a lengthy and thoughtful development cycle. The 30'06 fought imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and communism in Korea and Vietnam. It's service in all of these conflicts introduced many young men to the cartridge and rifle shooting in general. These men went on to be the foundation of American gun culture today. Even in 2021 we see Springfield and M1 matches being held at Camp Perry. Nothing else could possibly be considered for America's cartridge that the one that saw to her position as a Superpower in the Golden age of America and her modern industrial revolution.
For all of history 45 long ,22 long ,30 30, 30 06 but modern day it’s 223 and 308
.30-30 till 1965.
30-06 till 1990
.308 till 2005
.233 or 5.56 for the last 15 years.
Pistol is .45acp.
ammo purchase but for sportsman? Have them all and love them all. 45-70 before those and I still think its a world class round when used properly.
Pistol is the 9mm, hands down
@@Nostradamus_Order33 pass the joint lol
@@Nostradamus_Order33 yes today, wasn't 10 years ago. 9mm is vastly improved.
This channel should get more views
300 win mag. Bullet selection and weight range is one of the best out of all cartridges. Whitetail and pronghorn all the way to moose and even African water buffalo. 😉 love that cartridge.
Matt allen The African buffalo is never far from water. They can live in grasslands, savannas, swamps, lowland floodplains, mixed forest and glades, but they never roam farther than 12 miles (20 kilometers) from a body of water, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. Often referred to as the “African water buffalo” by natives because of its nature to always be close to water; aka “Black Death”. 😃👍🏻 Whatever floats your boat man 😃 300 win mag your good to go, 220 grain bullet; heck you can even get upto 250 grain bullets for personal reloading! 😉 excellent round.
Matt allen really?.?.?.? Lol! Man...tough crowd....lmao!!! You must be a biologist....Lol! 😉
Matt allen So you have acquired knowledge but no wisdom......figures....
Matt allen I’m still trying to see where this thread is going...it’s about caliber choice. Application is based on an opinion in grain weights. I could have said elephant; African elephant or Indian elephant. It wouldn’t have mattered but your argument over an inclusion of the word “water” has you hung up on application. For a guy who says he’s highly educated your definitely showing signs of being imbecilic. An educated person has the ability to think inductively and deductively. An educated person knows how to make productive use of knowledge; they know where to get the knowledge that they need, and they have the ability to organize that knowledge into a plan of action that is directed to a definite end. It’s too bad this platform is opinion based because clearly anyone from around the globe can argue that they know what their talking about but if I tell you to shoot a buffalo on any continent, you seem sharp enough to figure that out. Don’t let this confuse you...then again you might miss the punchline in the end anyways.....this thread is about caliber not animals. We can talk about African education another day....lol! that’s definitely still out for debate.....
Wow
I'd have a really hard time nailing it down to 1 cartridge... I would think it was the 30-06 then went to the 270WIN, and now its the 6.5 Creedmoor... Personally I own a couple rifles chambered in all 3 of those calibers and love them but I've moved away from all of them a little. Now and days I find myself grabbing either my AR15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel if I know theres a lot of hogs in the area or my Thompson Center in 270WSM if I'm hunting areas that doesn't have a serious hog problem. Now if I had to choose its gotta be the 6.5 Creedmoor that's the most popular cartridge...
Go with accubond! way better than that target bullet ELDX
Very true
Yes! Very true!
I'd pick the 260 REM over the 6.5 CM because the CM is a target cartridge based on the proprietary 30TC case instead of the 308 case. One can always neck down 308 brass, 708 brass, or neck up 243 brass if 260 REM brass is unavailable. Plus it holds more powder, and you still can load it with long high BC bullets without the secant going into the case mouth for the standard 2.800" aver all length.
I’m an avid shooter, hunter, and golfer. I loved hearing the comparisons between guns and golf. That being said, as much as I’d like to agree the 30-06 wins this debate, let’s compare it to golf as the Driver and a 22lr as the putter. If you had to play golf with only 1 club, you wouldn’t want a driver or a putter but rather something in the middle like a 5 iron. So it’s like making an argument that the 1 gun choice has to be in between a 22 and 30-06 like a 223/556. It can take small and large game. I think Americas cartridge has to be the 223/556.
6.5 creed is America's cartridge. I don't even own one and I haven't shot one. It's hands down the most popular hunting caliber and rifle chambering. It out performs .308. And like was said, it's in big guns, little guns, low recoil, etc. etc... and it's only getting more popular.
Lol
In the 18th Century you could hand a shopkeeper or cobbler’s apprentice a Brown Bess and teach him how to send those .62 balls down range fairly easily. Aimed fire was *not* the intent. Just throw enough lead toward that like of enemies 50 yards away and enough of them will go to meet their maker.
An 18th Century muzzle loaded rifle was an entirely different weapon. It took more skill to fabricate and MUCH more skill to operate effectively. Kind of like the 14th Century English longbow - the Kentucky rifle was almost a way of life for people in certain areas of the colonies. You couldn’t make 50 more rifles, grab 50 men off the streets of Philadelphia, and have an effective military unit in 3 months. Think of the smooth bore musket as a crossbow. “Point it toward the man you want to kill and pull this thing.” The English longbow and the 18th Century musket took years of practice to master and make effective, but when you put in the time and effort the military effect was devastating.
There's an old guy at my work,probably pushing 70,he's ALL into the 6.5
My pick would be a 30-30 for rifles and 45acp for pistol
"I bet he shoots a 6.5 creedmoor" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 spot on!!!
There was a fellow named Morgan who set up a unit of marksmen in The Revolution. They were required to hit a roof shingle (Approx 12"x12") with a single, 250 yard cold-bore shot to join his unit. Marksmanship was a MAJOR advantage the colonists had over the English, who believed in accuracy by volume, and whose main weapon was, really, the bayonet.