I have an affiliate link and discount code in the description of you wished to pick one up. The channel will earn a small commission so thanks in advance.
Pretty watch, but I really don't care for the hole in the face showing the gears spinning. I don't know anything about watches except they tell time, but I guess if you're a watch nerd, that's impressive to see gears inside other gears in order to make a clockwork small enough fit on a wrist. But I don't care about that, any more than I care about how many franistats my car's engine has. That seems to be a growing trend in watches, from $20 watches on eBay to million dollar watches at fancy jewelry stores. A $20 Timex is good enough for me as long as it keeps accurate time, and I don't care how shiny and polished the gears are, lol. But thanks for the video! I enjoyed it and thought the watch was nice. I've heard of Rolex, but never heard of Tourbilion, but then I'm not familiar with all the high-end brands of watches, and I ain't paying $500 for a wristwatch!
For the price it's a great watch for any starter collection. This proves that European watch makers of tourbillon have inflated prices. Great products coming out of Asia. Consumers just need to be open minded to trying new products. Tourbillon not actually needed on wrist watches but they look great. Great video.
Me too. I can already say that cleaning this movement is for sure a successful journey. After watching Mike's video decided to inspect the movement of my watch with a 10x magnifier and immediately saw that there was a stain in the geneva stripes and what appeared to be dust in the ratchet wheel at the back of the movement. After using rodico the ratchet wheel was revived and there was what appeared to be iron dust on the rodico. The stain in the geneva stripes was more difficult to remove and had to use a non-abasive photo wipe to remove it. After that inspected the flying tourbillon on the front with a 20x magnifier and mine seem much more clean than that of Mike's watch.
Hi Mike, I dont see any problem at all with you reviewing any watch or tool sent to you. The amount of work you put in in helping us newbies to be come competent at cleaning and repairing watches is awesome, the good thing about your channel is we also see the mistakes you make, even though there are few of them. Please keep up the good work you do for us, Thank you
I appreciate that! Its comments like yours that mean so much to me so thank you for taking the time to comment. A new video has just gone live today for you to enjoy.
It's nice to see a watch like this up close. I wouldn't personally spend the extra money on it unless it was a better known company. I enjoy looking at it and like you, I'd waste a lot of time watching the cage go round and round. Keep up the good work on the channel! I enjoy watching what you do and how you do it. FYI, I purchased the microscope myself to get back into the hobby. I'm setting things up right now. Have a blessed day!
Thank you for this video. I bought one of these, though with an even fancier dial and no writing on it and at a much higher price ($700), and am quite happy with it, as I could never afford a Swiss Tourbillon watch. The complication is one of the four milestones in horology: chronograph, perpetual calendar, tourbillon and minute repeater. Nice to be able to afford one of those.
Thank you for commenting. Nice to know you still like yours. I know these will not be to everyones taste. I'd love a minute repeater and no doubt could probably find one on AliExpress but for that complication I would want proper craftsmanship. Thanks for watching.
mine has a sparkly celestial look to the dial and was cheaper. i saw some with a less carousel looking tourbillon by Sugess with a very elegant dial that were more like $600. anyway, how is your running?
I really like the idea of reviewing in depth, the chinese watches because they are always changing and always nice to see where there are these days. Makes me think could it be refinished ?
nice video! I don’t have a microscope but looked closely at my aesop tourbillon with 10x loop and it looked quite clean and tarnish free. i’m sure there are differences from piece to piece, but looking good at 10x satisfies me for $300. i looked through the glass without disassembly - i did see a piece of lint on the cage though. i have had it problem free for a year so far so that’s good. cheers!
Mike, really apreciate your work, and theres nothing wrong in reviewing this watches, I (as many other subscribers) thank you for the time you dedicate to vintage as well as this new watches from any country of origin. Great work and very informative and enterteining. Best Regards
Many people want me to strip this down but I’m not sure I have the confidence to put it all back together. If there was a worksheet to read through I’d consider it.
One problem I noticed under magnification that would explain the timegrapher readings in the crown up/down positions was the inconsistent depthing of the wheel teeth between the escape wheel and the stationary wheel. In some places the depth looked adequate, in others it appeared too shallow. If the center pivot of the tourbillon was slightly off, this might be the result.
@@MyRetroWatches It could have been the angle of the light but I'd swear there is dome really shallow depthing in places. Also, it occurs to me that the cage being out of balance would also produce a similar result with respect the the timegrapher readings you were seeing.
it simple ,eligant and clean, the second window to the tubillion , is a daydream into another world of movement, and intricate mechanics on a miniture scale ! beautyful :)
As I watched the dust gathered second by second. The watch finish was most definitely better before you cracked the case. The haze and lint appeared after you opened the watch. I think initially the finish was quite good. I find myself actually impressed.
Thank you for an honest, nuanced 'unboxing' of a (far!) less expensive option in the Tourbillon market 👍 Like you said, It's a given that people will scoff at a Chinese-made version but it's important to view it in context... this is a _functional mechanical Tourbillon being mass produced at reasonable prices._ It's not intended to be a handcrafted precision timepiece... you're paying for a view of an amazing & entrancing mechanical device on a (probably) mid-quality watch. And that makes your personal observations so valuable! Small things like the more intense ticking & frustration with the smudged pieces... it's exactly the type of info that helps a viewer make a more informed decision about how much I'd be willing to pay, and it's gold 👌 Mike, I'd love to hear your observations on it in 6 mths or a year's time... did you wear it, was it comfortable, has it conked out after months sitting in a drawer & now runs rough, that type of thing. And like many others here, I'd be very interested to see you tidy up the little annoyances you found to see what the difference is! 😎👍
I've got the one with the starry dial. It's all down to taste but I think in the sunlight it looks stunning. Movement not skeletonised and the arrangement of the escape looks slightly different, perhaps why it's cheaper. I got it in a sale for just over £200. Really happy with it.
Yes I’ve seen many reviews on that one and good value too. I was only given a handful of stores to choose something from and was great full to AliExpress for letting me pick. Not sure my review will help their sales on this one though however the up and coming St Martin review well that’s a watch that I’ve fallen for big time.
Thanks for the close-up look at one of these value-priced tourbillons. I found it most informative and learned quite a bit. I collect modern and vintage (bubblebacks, 2937-2, large lug Seamasters, and so on) but also enjoy rocking anything on my wrist from Casio to AP and in between - life's too short to turn one's nose up at a truly interesting watch, whatever the price. That's the draw for me: is it intriguing? For me at least the answer is "yes" and it's great to know what one is getting, good and otherwise, before one pulls the proverbial trigger. Please do more of both video types: restorations and close looks at trending timepieces!
I think for the money, the chinese tourbillons are a steal. That doesn't mean that I think they're the best watches ever made, but considering that the very next tourbillon price point is over 10 times more expensive than these entry level offerings, its hard to knock them. It is... you can get one of these for a few hundred bucks, and they look nice to the naked eye and not a bad looking design AND there are a few differnet styles of the chinese tourbillons to choose from. All in all, if you're trying to buy the absolute highest quality then you'd be wasting money on one of these... but if you are a shift worker and want a tourbillon in your collection, these turn into a no-brainer. I don't know many working class watch collectors that can spend 10K or more on a single piece.... this is a hell of an option in a case like that.
Just recently saw a video about the AP Openworked. There are worlds of difference on the finish of each little detail. But given the price point this one is still kind of impressing.
Mike, Thank you so much for doing this video. No one else would take a watch like this and decase it and do a review under a high powered microscope. Now, for the record, I like Chinese watches. I am not a watch snob. Chinese watches vary in quality and cleanliness. This manufacturer in particular does not pay attention to detail. Everything is dirty. I saw oxidation on a screw head. The parts are coated with some kind of oil or substance plus the filth. This watch was obviously put together in a filthy environment. Even the dial had dirty indices etc. I totally appreciate you doing this video. It shows that when it comes to certain watch types it is probably a bad idea to buy these cheap models. Your video is incredibly interesting. Educational. Thought inspiring. I appreciated your very tactful opinion concerning this watch. You showcased its good points without dwelling on its horrid filthy condition. If this watch company knew you were going to show this movement under a microscope I doubt they would have sent it too you. Great job. I am a fan of your work. My opinion concerting this watch is that it badly needs a service. I couldn't service it that is for sure. Too complex.
Just as you discussed, I have no experience with a "real" tourbillon watch. But as I think about the theory, the tourbillon movement cannot really stop the effects of gravity. But what it can do is to make the effects of gravity average out to produce less variance than if you did not have this complication. If this idea is correct, we would expect to see short term variance in different positions. But over a period of a minute or minutes, the variance should somewhat cancel each other out. Would love to see a long term review of this watch.
Thumbs up. I totally agree but would add this: to average out all positions the movement would have to move in more than two dimensions. There are tri-axial tourbillons out there but at a cost (by god this thing is gorgeous)... ruclips.net/video/0J0rJTZfHmQ/видео.html *edit* ...then there's this!! ruclips.net/video/A7mGJEGEqLM/видео.html
Michael: it boils down to the balance and escape being combined with 4th wheel thats the fixed wheel that escape travels around. and the rotation of balance assembly is rotation of 4th wheel.
I have a sea-gull sea kors Tpurbillion with date ,24 hour moon phase and power indicator I've had it 18 months and it keeps almost perfect time I wear it a lot and have had more comments and compliments on it than any other watch I own Well worth the £470.00 I paid
I love this channel. Your inquisitive nature is great. Here is a brand new cool watch, lets tear it to bits! Keep up the good work and quit making excuses! Your very educational. On this tourbillon movement I would consider buying as you say "just to watch the bits go 'round." as I could never ever be able to afford a Swiss version,
Thank you Kevin that is very nice of you to say this. I am always making excuses, never have full confidence in what I am saying or doing sometimes. Watching the Tourbillon go around is still amazing even at this level. I love movements and watching the balance is always good but to see a whole escapement spin around and know its all done mechanically by the power of one spring is just fascinating. Thank you for your support.
26:38 That's the whole point of a Tourbillon. Averaging out the rate in vertical positions, it made sense in pocketwatches before the advent of modern "timegraphers". These days a watch can be regulated to such a degree that a tourbillon doesn't add much (except prestige), unless it isn't a very accurate movement. (like this one)
These are cool watches and well worth the money in my opinion. I have the planet dial one, I paid roughly $245 on their 11/11 sale, plus about $45 for rush shipping, and I really love it. That price included free engraving of my initials on the buckle which was pretty cool addition. I haven't worn my Omega Aqua Terra since I've gotten it. Not saying it's a better watch than the Omega... not even close... but more interesting for sure. Knowing I'll probably never afford, or want to spend what a Swiss tourbillon costs, and I appreciate the art of watch movements/complications, this scratches the itch of being able to watch a tourbillon spin around in person without having to spend $50,000... and if it breaks, who cares. It will be fun while it lasts. I've had mine for a couple months now, running most of that time, and no problems yet. I'd recommend waiting for a sale and getting one for around $250. At that price it's well worth it.
Thanks you for your detailed comment. Completely agree. It’s not perfect by any means for for fascination factor it’s got it in spades ! A lot of people just want to rubbish it because of where it’s made but I personally think it’s an achievement despite the poor finishing close up.
@My Retro Watches Agreed... Mine is just as bad up close, the screws are chewed up from screwdrivers while assembling, the finishing isn't great, but for $250 I can't complain. I catch myself staring at the tourbillon quite often. I wouldn't spend $1000+ on a Chinese tourbillon, but at $250 it's hard to complain, regardless of where it's made... and honestly most of us aren't going to spend the money it takes to get a Swiss tourbillon so I can't trash it for being Chinese... all that means to me is we actually get a chance to own a tourbillon movement. Now hopefully is lasts a few years at least before breaking. That'll be the next test. 😁
I have found that a lot of watches with shorter lugs don't fit stingray straps because they're so thick. If you are a fan of stingray straps like I am, a larger lug depth is perfect.
7:35 no, john arnold saw this problem and told breguet of his idea and breguet realised the concept after arnold's death. he also acknowledged that john arnold came up with the idea and gave the first tourbillion to john arnold's son as a tribute.
I have been seeing these pop up more often; the finish of the parts is pretty much what I expected but none the less, I just might pick one up. Btw, it's deployant clasp, not "deployment". Thanks for the review Mike! - Wolffen Frank
Hi pal. Thanks for watching . It’s not perfect but I didn’t expect it to be. I think there are better examples Coming out of China . I am lead to believe there are 2-3 different Tourbillon movements being made. As for the Deployment / deployant I’ve been schooled by someone else here too. Cousins my local parts supplier called them deployment so I went with that .
"Deployant" (or Déployant to be exact) is a French word, and "Deployment" is the same thing in English. So not really a faux pas to use either. Déployant is the original word but the translated terminology is also correct. People being a snob/grammar Nazi about it just shows off their own ignorance about the term...
in an earlier portion of the video, we saw, clearly the orientation of the balance spring and its attachment to the balance wheel. I think the attachment of the spring lug is crooked and the oscillation of the spring (expansion/contraction) is thus offset from the center of rotation of the balance wheel. This alone will cause asymmetric deviations in the beat error based on the angle of the tourbilllon as it rotates.
Nice movement and I was blown away by the view on the exhibition back. The only downside was the off centre hands, I noticed them immediately and found this to be a deal breaker. You're spot on about adding one to a personal collection just because they're an example of a movement type. Same reason I added a Forsining bridge movement to my collection. BTW that would be a great watch to do a strip down, clean and rebuild on. Because nobody else on YT has done it and it looks complicated, plus it would be nice to get an opinion on build quality.
@My Retro Watches I thought that it would be very interesting watching you "tuning" this watches in a car tuning sense - polish some of the gears, some make brushed, add Geneva stripes even somewhere :)
Very interesting! As you pointed out, the finishing left a lot to be desired. Would be more interesting if you can polish all the parts properly and see the result.
Great thanks for the video. I purchased on of these for approx $700, my model had additional complications. It was a delight to watch the tourbillon, until it stopped.. and stopped... then stopped again. I watched you video to possibly learn if it was a common occurrence or just a "lemon". The seller was super responsive and gave me a refund after shipping it back to China. I am considering repurchasing one now that I see it may actually be capable of keep time.
I am hoping when I next work with Aliexpres that I can choose another tourbillon. The Sugess brand I think use the Sea-Gull movement which I would consider much better quality.
I have a similar Chinese Tourbillion by Aesop (as in Aesop's Fables if that helps you with the pronunciation) the tourbillion top plate (cage?) is slightly different in appearance but does have the same or similar "tarnish" when viewed under my stereo microscope. I got the one with the solar system dial, yellow gold plated. After the few months of my ownership and pretty regular wear the plating while remaining eye clean is showing slight signs of wear, fortunately I have the facilities and means to refinish the plating. My watch on my timegrapher gives an accuracy with an average of +/- 2 secs a day. All in all I think that it is pretty good in terms of value, (I paid £180 in the Xmas sale) workmanship and appearance. I would not expect to see the "tarnish" and finish wear on a high end Sea-Gull tourbillon but they are in an entirely different category with a couple at over $300k, more than 1000 times the price of my watch but then they are not gold plated cases but solid 18 carat gold. These Aesop tourbillons are great value despite the slight imperfections and in this case you are getting a lot more than you pay for.
Can we get the Agelocer Tourbillon under the microscope? On the face of it, the watch looks well polished. And, well, affordable (at $1000) for a Tourbillon.
Thank you so much for a fascinating and educational evening watching a number of your videos. I first came across the one reviewing the 10" microscope, my interest being electronics; then I watched one striping and reassembling a watch, I had never understood how it could be done! I became totally hooked on your micro-skills. Another of my interests is photographica, mainly old film cameras. Mending and servicing the mechanics, particularly the shutters is something I enjoy and find totally relaxing, but these are mechanisms the scale of a pocket watch. Watching more of your videos is going to be very useful in learning the skills required that are very similar. Keep up the excellent work; I have of course subscribed.
I am really glad you enjoyed this video. Working on small watches is a lot of fun when you can make the objects bigger with magnification. Thank you for your subscription.
Excellent review, but I have to say I detect a little bit of bias but you have it under control, very commendable. In all you did a great job. Thanks 😊
Not sure and bias was intentional. I tend to look on the bright side of everything. I cannot say this is a pile of junk as I do think its quite a marvel really to make something as complicated at a low cost (in theory) There are much cheaper version and more expensive and I have now been told that there is more than one Tourbillon manufacturer in China. Almost wants me to wait until AliExpress ask me again to review something and I pick another branded one... who knows. either way thanks for watching and commenting.
@@MyRetroWatches Oh no, that's not what I meant. What I meant was, I was checking this watch and I also saw another Aesop watch with double tourbillon for sale aside from this single tourbillon. I'm sorry about the confusion : (
I would not feel guilty about the bit of lint! A few years ago I was asked to check a Chinese made :desk watch. It was a wrist watch movement PRESSED into a case , making it a desk ornament. It had been running for a month, and it stopped. Long story short, the cause of stoppage was a mosquito trapped in the escapement/ balance! Please tell me how it got in???
It seems to me that the entire reason of the tourbillon is to average out inaccuracies due to the affect of gravity due to the watches position. By rotating the pawl mechanism, this would average out the inaccuracies due to gravity. Since the mechanism rotates once a minute, one would expect to see changes over a minute in a repeating cycle. If the watch's face is parallel to the ground, then there would be no or minimum variations as gravity would be fairly constant. As the watch is tiled on it's side one would see increasing variance proportional to the sine of the angle of the watch face to the ground, which is what we saw here. As the pawl mechanism is off to the side and headed down, gravity would add more force thereby increasing the speed slightly, and as it heads up 180 degrees the other way it would slow down. This is conjecture on my part, but I would be surprised if this isn't the case. Cheers!
Lovely watch, well the civilisation that invented porcelain and silk, at the time the English still ran around in bearskins can still produce things of beauty that's for sure :)
I've just come across your video, I know it has been a couple of years , so I'm interested to know how the watch has behaved since you shot it. I'm very interested in buying something like this for both myself & my son.
I didn't particularly like and I didn't particularly hate it, I just recall all too well how Chinese steel and brass doesn't seem to hold up very well. They could've used true blued steel screws or at least higher quality screws. The discoloration you highlighted appears to be discoloration from the final dip in whatever they plated the parts in.
Thank you for sharing the close up video, very nice watch. I wonder, is it possible to clean up and polish these components? Specially they look like just finger print smudges.
Nice review! I do have the kitsch version of this watch with the aventurine dial for the last 8 months, bought for 240€, and I can say that so far its accuracy range from -4 sec to + 8 sec/ day, with an average between -0.1 sec to +5.3 sec/day. Mine does not have the skeleton movement but a back plate nicely machine finished with geneva stripes. For the money paid I can not find any major drawback for this watch. I really would like to see a video showing if this movement could be visually improved with some cleaning. Even better would a disassemble followed by an assemble of this movement. For reference the dimensions of my version's case are 42.4 mm diameter, 50.3 mm lug to lug and 10.9 mm thickness.
@@MyRetroWatches I imagine so. Being the son of a watch maker and watching during my childhood the laborious work of disassemble and assembling back a watch movement I know that assembling this movement would took most likely more than a couple of hours. At least trying to clean it with rodico, the pegwood and even a non-abrasive wipe would be a very successful journey and not so laborious. I did that at the back of my watch movement and was able to remove the "iron" dust in the ratchet wheel and a stain in-between the geneva stripes.
@@silo3com Still working perfectky even after some months without use, it started to work after turning the crown twice. The only complain I do have is that the case back is not stainless steel, but it is chromed that aldeady started to peel off.
Hi Mike, happy new year to you and family, the tourbillion, i would have hoped for a more accurate and consistent movement especially in different positions but as you said not top notch quality parts stamped and other things, really good review though, cheers Mike cu in your next video. I second the stripping down of rhe movement and seeing if you can get better accuracy, sometimes in China the QC isn't that great and lubrication is missed or omitted all together, would make a excellent video. Ta ta from Dave.
Thanks Dave, not sure I want t strip this down. On their website there is a video render of all the parts coming together. theres so many! I think taking it apart is probably very easy but putting it back together and making it work again is another thing entirely.
Nice video, love your channel Mike. Just a word on your microscope: I got a similar one in that it has both a screen and post base that are angle adjustable. This way I can work from behind the unit with the screen essentially uspide down and viewing the work area at an angle in the same line of vision as I am as I sit. This gives my wrists room to sit pretty comfortably each side of the base ahead of the post and lights and a very natural work view. Just something you might want to try.
Thanks. Thing is I won’t work under a scope anyway as I prefer loupes and my visor. I was more demonstrating that there is more focal length for people who need it. I have found tilting the scope on its rack does not give an entirely focused image . I will use this for filming and oiling / inspection. I still have my stereoscope which is handy for more precise work I might need to carry out. Thanks though
@@MyRetroWatches No worries. You can't beat the loupe. Can't get used the the binocular scope. Another handy gadget is the small slim LED video lights with difuser. I place the under the movement to uplight when examining the pallet lube. I'm in full time watch school. Due to graduate end of 2022.
@@47zero like the idea of that light. When I reviewed the scope (see my video list) it’s a point I criticised, but then these type of video scopes are for inspection and soldering . I am in contact with the manufacturer and want to write to them to see if they would add a light and possibly a ring light to the microscope lens tube. They might listen to me, you never know.
1:56 Aesop (/ˈiːsɒp/ EE-sop or /ˈeɪsɒp/ AY-sop; Greek: Αἴσωπος, Aísōpos; c. 620-564 BCE; formerly rendered as Æsop) was a Greek fabulist and storyteller credited with a number of fables now collectively known as Aesop's Fables.
Great video. I think it's wonderful that tourbillons are now accessible by the masses at a price point below $500USD. Of course, nobody should be expecting a $20K 'swiss grade' watch for that level of finishing. If you have the time, please make a video showing the disassembly, cleaning, reassembly of the watch, and seeing if it would greatly improve the performance of the tourbillon. If that is the case, then somebody spending a total of less than $1K USD (e.g. paying ~$500USD for a Chinese tourbillon, and another $300-400 for a full service) can result in a reliable, interesting watch. Another thing that I noticed is that the gear train, with the tourbillon omitted, uses large gears and pinions, similar to that in a 6497/6498 watch. Larger parts = more durable parts, and makes the watch more serviceable and reliable in the long term (e.g. in a 10-20 year period). What do you think?
You raise good points but we dont know the long term reliability. Parts may be big but are the pivots and staffs made of good steel? I will never really know as you would have to daily the watch for many years and as I have 100s of watches just to have it on two days in a row would be unusual for me! As for taking it apart, I am sure many want to see that but it does seem very complicated and putting back together would be a massive task plus to film it too. On the website link in the description it shows an animated render of all the parts coming together, its quite nice actually but you do then get to see just how many components there are! Thank you for watching and commenting.
@@MyRetroWatches thanks for your reply. I understand that taking it apart+ filming it may be an incredibly difficult task, but it’s something that somebody like myself would love to see - at the moment I cannot find a Chinese Tourbillon disassembly/full service on RUclips. Based on the movement architecture, all of the gear train/motion works parts look straightforward. The Tourbillon looks complex, but it doesn’t look dramatically more complicated than a traditional lever escapement. Nonetheless, keep up the great videos!! We really appreciate it!
Hi Mike, Very nice watch. Only thing I have a question about is at 21:33-21:40, is there a missing screw hole? I would love to see this after taking a spin in the cleaning machine, and maybe a little bit of elbow grease on polishing some of the bridges and wheels. I bet it could look as sharp as the $$$,£££,€€€.00 Swiss ones. I think the dial looks very cool, no cluttering, simple and elegant. Enjoy it, just don’t drool (🤤) all over it. 🤣🤣🤣. Cheers!
A few weeks ago I bought a Chinese tourbillon. It cost me substantially more than yours. Having done some research I found that there are definite grades of tourbillon and yours is one of the lower grade movements. On the upside, the cheaper movements tend to be larger - hence the displaced dial and hands which makes the tourbillon larger and more visible. That's my major disappointment. On my watch it is quite hard for my rheumy eyes to see the details. I have not looked at mine under a microscope but it does have visibly better machining to the rear components. The movement is also very quiet - inaudible and certainly quieter than other watches with low cost movements. I had thought about buying a second watch with the movement you have - just for the sake of the larger tourbillon but your video has changed my mind. ;) From everything I have seen, apart from the benefit of the larger tourbillon, I'd spend the extra money on a higher grade movement. The watch case is also rather nicer. I wonder if the inconsistency you saw on the time grapher is the tourbillon doing its job? The relatively low grade movement being evened out as the tourbillon rotates? Mine seems more accurate. I keep it wound each day and over the course of a week or so I notice no need to reset the time.
Thank you for your detailed reply. I am learning from you guys! Someone else also said they have a better quality Tourbillon so it’s reassuring that there are others that might be better. Perhaps if I get asked again to review I might find a better brand. (What’s yours) I’m still enjoying this one despite my disappointment on the close ups. I love just watching it but then I love movements so to be able to see it at the dial side floats my boat so to speak. Thanks for commenting and watching the video.
@@MyRetroWatches hi, thanks for your reply. I bought a watch from. Sugess the su8230rgw cost was just under $700 before taxes. The movement is a Seagull su88230. I chose this particular model because I wanted to try out the enamel dial with railway track markings before spending a lot more money on a watch with similar elements. I do like the design, but hate the script used for the branding on the face.
One thing I can’t figure out with these. If I managed to take the movement apart and rebuild it properly, how would i regulate it again with it spinning around like that?
Knowing how horrid it is under the microscope ensure that I will never buy one as I could never be proud of wearing it regardless of the cost. Thanks for your detailed view of this watch.
I would imagine that the error would increase when it was sideways because that escapement is climbing half go round falling tbe other it would only really be consistent if it was upside down or right side up. On the way to really account for that I bet would be to have two escapements, opposite sides
I'm not a watch movement expert but I don't think a tourbillon makes the accuracy consistent throughout one rotation of the tourbillon but it averages out the deviations over time (many rotations). If an equal watch with no tourbillon is in a vertical position that gives it -20s/day but gives 0s/day in a 180 degree orientation it will be off 20s/day if in the "bad" position all day. If you then keep rotating the watch around and round consistently it will be in the bad position 50% of the time and in the good position 50% of the time. It will average it all out and will be off -10s/day. That's what a tourbillon does. But only in the vertical position like how pocket watches were usually worn.
love the video,great to see how it works, and i have a sugess SU8001SW on my way to me,stunning dail!(did not see the stupid gems on the bezel!) i will be wearing this DRESS watch on my work as a mechanic !🤣😂
Enjoy it. Affordable tourbillon should be used for the most mundane things as seeing them out of context is funny. I did a 5k fun run wearing one just because I thought how many people would even consider wearing a tourbillon for this!
Good review Michael. The attention to detail on this watch leaves a lot to be desired. A bit more time spent on the finish, aligning indices, simply cleaning the bridges etc would help. Not my cup of tea so I wouldn't buy one. I am curious how much it costs to actually make one of these if they are massed produced.
Good points. Agreed the cost of manufacturing anywhere else in the world it would not be viable at this price point. That being said I think it might be overpriced given other models that are cheaper. I can’t say the others have the same movement or not. I have also learned from the comments here that there are other better quality Tourbillon movements so perhaps in the future I might find one of those to review.
I think you het a fair bit of watch for the money. I consider to get one. Or maby a movement to play with. :) The difference on the TG, must be the balance on the tourbillion assembly. I feel the need to take it apart and clean it. But, i think the blued screws would be scrached up emidietly?
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I have an affiliate link and discount code in the description of you wished to pick one up. The channel will earn a small commission so thanks in advance.
We're can I buy one at ??
Where can I buy one at
Pretty watch, but I really don't care for the hole in the face showing the gears spinning. I don't know anything about watches except they tell time, but I guess if you're a watch nerd, that's impressive to see gears inside other gears in order to make a clockwork small enough fit on a wrist. But I don't care about that, any more than I care about how many franistats my car's engine has. That seems to be a growing trend in watches, from $20 watches on eBay to million dollar watches at fancy jewelry stores. A $20 Timex is good enough for me as long as it keeps accurate time, and I don't care how shiny and polished the gears are, lol. But thanks for the video! I enjoyed it and thought the watch was nice. I've heard of Rolex, but never heard of Tourbilion, but then I'm not familiar with all the high-end brands of watches, and I ain't paying $500 for a wristwatch!
@@fredashay Then why are you here? I love it!
Bạn tôi muốn mua nó ở đâu bạn cho tôi địa chỉ
I am astonished to find out that how good Chinese can make such a beautiful Tourbillon. Thanks for sharing.
For the price it's a great watch for any starter collection. This proves that European watch makers of tourbillon have inflated prices. Great products coming out of Asia. Consumers just need to be open minded to trying new products. Tourbillon not actually needed on wrist watches but they look great. Great video.
It's greed and branding nothing more do you really think rolex spends 10k on making a submariner no may 5 percent that
Mike, the next video needs to be you cleaning this movement up and seeing how much you can improve it! I need that type of content haha
I second this
Me too. I can already say that cleaning this movement is for sure a successful journey. After watching Mike's video decided to inspect the movement of my watch with a 10x magnifier and immediately saw that there was a stain in the geneva stripes and what appeared to be dust in the ratchet wheel at the back of the movement. After using rodico the ratchet wheel was revived and there was what appeared to be iron dust on the rodico. The stain in the geneva stripes was more difficult to remove and had to use a non-abasive photo wipe to remove it. After that inspected the flying tourbillon on the front with a 20x magnifier and mine seem much more clean than that of Mike's watch.
I agree with you a good service and a run though the cleaning machine would do it well. It looks like it was cleaned in dirty solution previously..
I was going to suggest the same thing. I would like to see how much the look and performance could be enhanced by you.
I condone this message
The Chinese have really upped their game in the last few years. I have several Chinese movements which are both reliable and accurate.
Hi Mike, I dont see any problem at all with you reviewing any watch or tool sent to you. The amount of work you put in in helping us newbies to be come competent at cleaning and repairing watches is awesome, the good thing about your channel is we also see the mistakes you make, even though there are few of them. Please keep up the good work you do for us, Thank you
I appreciate that! Its comments like yours that mean so much to me so thank you for taking the time to comment. A new video has just gone live today for you to enjoy.
It's nice to see a watch like this up close. I wouldn't personally spend the extra money on it unless it was a better known company. I enjoy looking at it and like you, I'd waste a lot of time watching the cage go round and round. Keep up the good work on the channel! I enjoy watching what you do and how you do it. FYI, I purchased the microscope myself to get back into the hobby. I'm setting things up right now. Have a blessed day!
It was more accurate than I expected, and I suspect the variations cancel out a good bit. Nice to see!
amazing tourbillon at that price, more accurate than some swiss automatic watches!!!
Thank you for this video. I bought one of these, though with an even fancier dial and no writing on it and at a much higher price ($700), and am quite happy with it, as I could never afford a Swiss Tourbillon watch. The complication is one of the four milestones in horology: chronograph, perpetual calendar, tourbillon and minute repeater. Nice to be able to afford one of those.
Thank you for commenting. Nice to know you still like yours. I know these will not be to everyones taste. I'd love a minute repeater and no doubt could probably find one on AliExpress but for that complication I would want proper craftsmanship. Thanks for watching.
Garantie 1 year as usual from the chinese...hahaha...
Never say you could never afford anything, you can if you want!
mine has a sparkly celestial look to the dial and was cheaper. i saw some with a less carousel looking tourbillon by Sugess with a very elegant dial that were more like $600. anyway, how is your running?
@@Vidmr2407 Sorry for answering so late. My watch is running well, though a bit too slow (around 5 seconds a day), which annoys me in any watch.
This watch looks beautiful with the naked eye but looks very very rough with your magnified views. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Always wanted to look at this Chinese tourbillon under microscope... thank you sir 🙏
Mike, I loved the video. Screw the snobby critics. Stop apologizing. Keep on what you're doing, you're doing fine.
Aesop, must be a fable-ous watch :)
10/10 dad joke! ;-)
I really like the idea of reviewing in depth, the chinese watches because they are always changing and always nice to see where there are these days. Makes me think could it be refinished ?
nice video! I don’t have a microscope but looked closely at my aesop tourbillon with 10x loop and it looked quite clean and tarnish free. i’m sure there are differences from piece to piece, but looking good at 10x satisfies me for $300. i looked through the glass without disassembly - i did see a piece of lint on the cage though. i have had it problem free for a year so far so that’s good. cheers!
Really good video and I've learnt quite a bit on this movement. Thanks
Mike, really apreciate your work, and theres nothing wrong in reviewing this watches, I (as many other subscribers) thank you for the time you dedicate to vintage as well as this new watches from any country of origin. Great work and very informative and enterteining. Best Regards
Thank you for this feedback as it means allot.
It'd be really interesting to see you "restore" this watch - more insight into the mechanism and it'd be a darn site cleaner when you're done!
Many people want me to strip this down but I’m not sure I have the confidence to put it all back together.
If there was a worksheet to read through I’d consider it.
One problem I noticed under magnification that would explain the timegrapher readings in the crown up/down positions was the inconsistent depthing of the wheel teeth between the escape wheel and the stationary wheel. In some places the depth looked adequate, in others it appeared too shallow. If the center pivot of the tourbillon was slightly off, this might be the result.
I didn’t notice that and will go back through the footage at some point . Thanks
@@MyRetroWatches It could have been the angle of the light but I'd swear there is dome really shallow depthing in places. Also, it occurs to me that the cage being out of balance would also produce a similar result with respect the the timegrapher readings you were seeing.
@@hugeshows all stands to reason. I don’t think we can expect perfection on such a movement . To me still impressive nether the less
it simple ,eligant and clean, the second window to the tubillion , is a daydream into another world of movement, and intricate mechanics on a miniture scale ! beautyful :)
As I watched the dust gathered second by second. The watch finish was most definitely better before you cracked the case. The haze and lint appeared after you opened the watch. I think initially the finish was quite good. I find myself actually impressed.
@@amphibiousone7972 incorrect the haze was there before, how could that happen all within 10 minutes… trust me I know what I am doing inside watches
Nice to see the tourbillon is an actual tourbillon and not just something decorative.
About finishing, at this price point (findable at
Thank you for an honest, nuanced 'unboxing' of a (far!) less expensive option in the Tourbillon market 👍 Like you said, It's a given that people will scoff at a Chinese-made version but it's important to view it in context... this is a _functional mechanical Tourbillon being mass produced at reasonable prices._ It's not intended to be a handcrafted precision timepiece... you're paying for a view of an amazing & entrancing mechanical device on a (probably) mid-quality watch.
And that makes your personal observations so valuable! Small things like the more intense ticking & frustration with the smudged pieces... it's exactly the type of info that helps a viewer make a more informed decision about how much I'd be willing to pay, and it's gold 👌
Mike, I'd love to hear your observations on it in 6 mths or a year's time... did you wear it, was it comfortable, has it conked out after months sitting in a drawer & now runs rough, that type of thing. And like many others here, I'd be very interested to see you tidy up the little annoyances you found to see what the difference is! 😎👍
Thank you for your feedback.
And if the Chinese aren't making these tourbillon that the common people too can enjoy, good luck buying one from the swiss.
If he cleans it up on mods it... what could it be?
I've got the one with the starry dial. It's all down to taste but I think in the sunlight it looks stunning. Movement not skeletonised and the arrangement of the escape looks slightly different, perhaps why it's cheaper. I got it in a sale for just over £200. Really happy with it.
Yes I’ve seen many reviews on that one and good value too. I was only given a handful of stores to choose something from and was great full to AliExpress for letting me pick. Not sure my review will help their sales on this one though however the up and coming St Martin review well that’s a watch that I’ve fallen for big time.
Thanks for the close-up look at one of these value-priced tourbillons. I found it most informative and learned quite a bit. I collect modern and vintage (bubblebacks, 2937-2, large lug Seamasters, and so on) but also enjoy rocking anything on my wrist from Casio to AP and in between - life's too short to turn one's nose up at a truly interesting watch, whatever the price. That's the draw for me: is it intriguing? For me at least the answer is "yes" and it's great to know what one is getting, good and otherwise, before one pulls the proverbial trigger. Please do more of both video types: restorations and close looks at trending timepieces!
I think for the money, the chinese tourbillons are a steal. That doesn't mean that I think they're the best watches ever made, but considering that the very next tourbillon price point is over 10 times more expensive than these entry level offerings, its hard to knock them. It is... you can get one of these for a few hundred bucks, and they look nice to the naked eye and not a bad looking design AND there are a few differnet styles of the chinese tourbillons to choose from. All in all, if you're trying to buy the absolute highest quality then you'd be wasting money on one of these... but if you are a shift worker and want a tourbillon in your collection, these turn into a no-brainer. I don't know many working class watch collectors that can spend 10K or more on a single piece.... this is a hell of an option in a case like that.
Thanks . you raise some good points.
Pretty cool 😎 this is the cheapest “flying tourbillon” I’ve seen. It’s a very impressive looking for sure
Just recently saw a video about the AP Openworked. There are worlds of difference on the finish of each little detail. But given the price point this one is still kind of impressing.
Mike, Thank you so much for doing this video. No one else would take a watch like this and decase it and do a review under a high powered microscope. Now, for the record, I like Chinese watches. I am not a watch snob. Chinese watches vary in quality and cleanliness. This manufacturer in particular does not pay attention to detail. Everything is dirty. I saw oxidation on a screw head. The parts are coated with some kind of oil or substance plus the filth. This watch was obviously put together in a filthy environment. Even the dial had dirty indices etc. I totally appreciate you doing this video. It shows that when it comes to certain watch types it is probably a bad idea to buy these cheap models. Your video is incredibly interesting. Educational. Thought inspiring. I appreciated your very tactful opinion concerning this watch. You showcased its good points without dwelling on its horrid filthy condition. If this watch company knew you were going to show this movement under a microscope I doubt they would have sent it too you. Great job. I am a fan of your work. My opinion concerting this watch is that it badly needs a service. I couldn't service it that is for sure. Too complex.
Just as you discussed, I have no experience with a "real" tourbillon watch. But as I think about the theory, the tourbillon movement cannot really stop the effects of gravity. But what it can do is to make the effects of gravity average out to produce less variance than if you did not have this complication. If this idea is correct, we would expect to see short term variance in different positions. But over a period of a minute or minutes, the variance should somewhat cancel each other out. Would love to see a long term review of this watch.
Thumbs up. I totally agree but would add this: to average out all positions the movement would have to move in more than two dimensions.
There are tri-axial tourbillons out there but at a cost (by god this thing is gorgeous)...
ruclips.net/video/0J0rJTZfHmQ/видео.html
*edit*
...then there's this!!
ruclips.net/video/A7mGJEGEqLM/видео.html
Michael: it boils down to the balance and escape being combined with 4th wheel thats the fixed wheel that escape travels around. and the rotation of balance assembly is rotation of 4th wheel.
I have a sea-gull sea kors Tpurbillion with date ,24 hour moon phase and power indicator
I've had it 18 months and it keeps almost perfect time
I wear it a lot and have had more comments and compliments on it than any other watch I own
Well worth the £470.00 I paid
I bought one of those aswell, for the price I can't really fault it, keeps excellent time and looks good too. 👌
Interesting. If AliExpress ask me to do another review I might pick something like that up to see the difference
Was waiting for a good review, before buying one, really good one too, covering every single point, outside look, microscope, the lot! Thank you!
I love this channel. Your inquisitive nature is great. Here is a brand new cool watch, lets tear it to bits! Keep up the good work and quit making excuses! Your very educational. On this tourbillon movement I would consider buying as you say "just to watch the bits go 'round." as I could never ever be able to afford a Swiss version,
Thank you Kevin that is very nice of you to say this. I am always making excuses, never have full confidence in what I am saying or doing sometimes. Watching the Tourbillon go around is still amazing even at this level. I love movements and watching the balance is always good but to see a whole escapement spin around and know its all done mechanically by the power of one spring is just fascinating. Thank you for your support.
26:38 That's the whole point of a Tourbillon. Averaging out the rate in vertical positions, it made sense in pocketwatches before the advent of modern "timegraphers". These days a watch can be regulated to such a degree that a tourbillon doesn't add much (except prestige), unless it isn't a very accurate movement. (like this one)
These are cool watches and well worth the money in my opinion. I have the planet dial one, I paid roughly $245 on their 11/11 sale, plus about $45 for rush shipping, and I really love it. That price included free engraving of my initials on the buckle which was pretty cool addition. I haven't worn my Omega Aqua Terra since I've gotten it. Not saying it's a better watch than the Omega... not even close... but more interesting for sure.
Knowing I'll probably never afford, or want to spend what a Swiss tourbillon costs, and I appreciate the art of watch movements/complications, this scratches the itch of being able to watch a tourbillon spin around in person without having to spend $50,000... and if it breaks, who cares. It will be fun while it lasts. I've had mine for a couple months now, running most of that time, and no problems yet. I'd recommend waiting for a sale and getting one for around $250. At that price it's well worth it.
Thanks you for your detailed comment. Completely agree. It’s not perfect by any means for for fascination factor it’s got it in spades !
A lot of people just want to rubbish it because of where it’s made but I personally think it’s an achievement despite the poor finishing close up.
@My Retro Watches Agreed... Mine is just as bad up close, the screws are chewed up from screwdrivers while assembling, the finishing isn't great, but for $250 I can't complain. I catch myself staring at the tourbillon quite often. I wouldn't spend $1000+ on a Chinese tourbillon, but at $250 it's hard to complain, regardless of where it's made... and honestly most of us aren't going to spend the money it takes to get a Swiss tourbillon so I can't trash it for being Chinese... all that means to me is we actually get a chance to own a tourbillon movement.
Now hopefully is lasts a few years at least before breaking. That'll be the next test. 😁
I have found that a lot of watches with shorter lugs don't fit stingray straps because they're so thick. If you are a fan of stingray straps like I am, a larger lug depth is perfect.
7:35 no, john arnold saw this problem and told breguet of his idea and breguet realised the concept after arnold's death. he also acknowledged that john arnold came up with the idea and gave the first tourbillion to john arnold's son as a tribute.
I have been seeing these pop up more often; the finish of the parts is pretty much what I expected but none the less, I just might pick one up. Btw, it's deployant clasp, not "deployment". Thanks for the review Mike! - Wolffen Frank
Hi pal. Thanks for watching . It’s not perfect but I didn’t expect it to be. I think there are better examples Coming out of China . I am lead to believe there are 2-3 different Tourbillon movements being made.
As for the Deployment / deployant I’ve been schooled by someone else here too. Cousins my local parts supplier called them deployment so I went with that .
"Deployant" (or Déployant to be exact) is a French word, and "Deployment" is the same thing in English. So not really a faux pas to use either.
Déployant is the original word but the translated terminology is also correct.
People being a snob/grammar Nazi about it just shows off their own ignorance about the term...
in an earlier portion of the video, we saw, clearly the orientation of the balance spring and its attachment to the balance wheel. I think the attachment of the spring lug is crooked and the oscillation of the spring (expansion/contraction) is thus offset from the center of rotation of the balance wheel. This alone will cause asymmetric deviations in the beat error based on the angle of the tourbilllon as it rotates.
Nice movement and I was blown away by the view on the exhibition back.
The only downside was the off centre hands, I noticed them immediately
and found this to be a deal breaker.
You're spot on about adding one to a personal collection just because
they're an example of a movement type.
Same reason I added a Forsining bridge movement to my collection.
BTW that would be a great watch to do a strip down, clean and rebuild on.
Because nobody else on YT has done it and it looks complicated, plus
it would be nice to get an opinion on build quality.
Everyone wants me to do this but I’m not sure right now. I want to enjoy the watch a while before I potentially destroy it
@My Retro Watches I thought that it would be very interesting watching you "tuning" this watches in a car tuning sense - polish some of the gears, some make brushed, add Geneva stripes even somewhere :)
Awesome back.
great presentation i really enjoyed it in term of education and guidance. thanks for sharing 👍
Very interesting! As you pointed out, the finishing left a lot to be desired. Would be more interesting if you can polish all the parts properly and see the result.
Great thanks for the video. I purchased on of these for approx $700, my model had additional complications. It was a delight to watch the tourbillon, until it stopped.. and stopped... then stopped again. I watched you video to possibly learn if it was a common occurrence or just a "lemon". The seller was super responsive and gave me a refund after shipping it back to China. I am considering repurchasing one now that I see it may actually be capable of keep time.
I am hoping when I next work with Aliexpres that I can choose another tourbillon. The Sugess brand I think use the Sea-Gull movement which I would consider much better quality.
My mistake, the model I purchased was a Sugess Seakors Tuorbillon Seagull ST8007 SE8007GW. They gave me a refund.
Great review. Shout out from a Redwood forest in California
For the light diffuser, use wax / parchment paper. More light, better diffusion.
Thanks. I’m now using a bit of masking tape over the lights
I have a similar Chinese Tourbillion by Aesop (as in Aesop's Fables if that helps you with the pronunciation) the tourbillion top plate (cage?) is slightly different in appearance but does have the same or similar "tarnish" when viewed under my stereo microscope. I got the one with the solar system dial, yellow gold plated. After the few months of my ownership and pretty regular wear the plating while remaining eye clean is showing slight signs of wear, fortunately I have the facilities and means to refinish the plating. My watch on my timegrapher gives an accuracy with an average of +/- 2 secs a day. All in all I think that it is pretty good in terms of value, (I paid £180 in the Xmas sale) workmanship and appearance. I would not expect to see the "tarnish" and finish wear on a high end Sea-Gull tourbillon but they are in an entirely different category with a couple at over $300k, more than 1000 times the price of my watch but then they are not gold plated cases but solid 18 carat gold. These Aesop tourbillons are great value despite the slight imperfections and in this case you are getting a lot more than you pay for.
Looks nice. Not sure that size is easy to wear. Would love a turbillon mantle or wall clock... can't find one anywhere!
Can we get the Agelocer Tourbillon under the microscope? On the face of it, the watch looks well polished. And, well, affordable (at $1000) for a Tourbillon.
Thank you Sir! excellently executed! I will definitely own one of these shortly because exactly for the reason you stated!
Subscribed!!!
Thanks for the sub!
Thank you so much for a fascinating and educational evening watching a number of your videos. I first came across the one reviewing the 10" microscope, my interest being electronics; then I watched one striping and reassembling a watch, I had never understood how it could be done! I became totally hooked on your micro-skills. Another of my interests is photographica, mainly old film cameras. Mending and servicing the mechanics, particularly the shutters is something I enjoy and find totally relaxing, but these are mechanisms the scale of a pocket watch. Watching more of your videos is going to be very useful in learning the skills required that are very similar. Keep up the excellent work; I have of course subscribed.
I am really glad you enjoyed this video. Working on small watches is a lot of fun when you can make the objects bigger with magnification.
Thank you for your subscription.
This is awesome and that desk is fantastic I have one like that, makes me want to stain mine or paint it.
Excellent review, but I have to say I detect a little bit of bias but you have it under control, very commendable. In all you did a great job. Thanks 😊
Not sure and bias was intentional. I tend to look on the bright side of everything. I cannot say this is a pile of junk as I do think its quite a marvel really to make something as complicated at a low cost (in theory) There are much cheaper version and more expensive and I have now been told that there is more than one Tourbillon manufacturer in China. Almost wants me to wait until AliExpress ask me again to review something and I pick another branded one... who knows. either way thanks for watching and commenting.
good good review in detail . I miss seeing how u remove the crown from this watch .
It just has a screw near the stem wheee it enters the movement . It’s on most watches.
Thank you for your thoroughness.
Upon checking this Sugess Tourbillon watch on Aliexpress, I also saw a Aesop brand Double Tourbillon and its not a faux tourbillon.
I didn’t say this was faux. It’s a genuine Tourbillon for sure.
@@MyRetroWatches Oh no, that's not what I meant. What I meant was, I was checking this watch and I also saw another Aesop watch with double tourbillon for sale aside from this single tourbillon. I'm sorry about the confusion : (
@@YTViewer1776 no problem . Thanks for watching video. Not sure what the point of a double Tourbillon would be for
Thanks! I enjoyed the video. All the best and happy New year!
likewise.All the best for 2022
Not for me but love to see you dig in. Looked like it might clean up quite nicely.
Thanks pleased it was enjoyable even though the watch is not for you.
I would not feel guilty about the bit of lint! A few years ago I was asked to check a Chinese made :desk watch. It was a wrist watch movement PRESSED into a case , making it a desk ornament. It had been running for a month, and it stopped.
Long story short, the cause of stoppage was a mosquito trapped in the escapement/ balance! Please tell me how it got in???
It seems to me that the entire reason of the tourbillon is to average out inaccuracies due to the affect of gravity due to the watches position. By rotating the pawl mechanism, this would average out the inaccuracies due to gravity. Since the mechanism rotates once a minute, one would expect to see changes over a minute in a repeating cycle. If the watch's face is parallel to the ground, then there would be no or minimum variations as gravity would be fairly constant. As the watch is tiled on it's side one would see increasing variance proportional to the sine of the angle of the watch face to the ground, which is what we saw here. As the pawl mechanism is off to the side and headed down, gravity would add more force thereby increasing the speed slightly, and as it heads up 180 degrees the other way it would slow down. This is conjecture on my part, but I would be surprised if this isn't the case. Cheers!
Aesop, as in aesops fables? Ali Express branding never ceases to amaze.
I seem to be the only one who does not know these fables😂 nearly every other comment is correcting me !
I should Google before I film from now on lol
@@MyRetroWatches No worries mate, lol.
Lovely watch, well the civilisation that invented porcelain and silk, at the time the English still ran around in bearskins can still produce things of beauty that's for sure :)
The fact that it says "Tourbillon" on the face ruins it for me. it's like, "well DUH".
I love your videos! I subscribed yesterday.
Thx for the video. I could never afford a swiss watch but i thought the watch impressive.
That hairspring lookks right ifffy, its not hardly moving on one siide almost as if it rubbing / touching something
I've just come across your video, I know it has been a couple of years , so I'm interested to know how the watch has behaved since you shot it. I'm very interested in buying something like this for both myself & my son.
Just picked up one of the Seagull 1963 watches to scratch the mechanical chronograph itch. This may be my next itch... Gonna be a while tho
I love the 1963 for what it is and its price.
I didn't particularly like and I didn't particularly hate it, I just recall all too well how Chinese steel and brass doesn't seem to hold up very well. They could've used true blued steel screws or at least higher quality screws. The discoloration you highlighted appears to be discoloration from the final dip in whatever they plated the parts in.
Thank you for sharing the close up video, very nice watch. I wonder, is it possible to clean up and polish these components? Specially they look like just finger print smudges.
If i was to strip it down and clean properly but I dont fancy hat .... yet!
A closer look. Reminds me of a Frank Zappa song line. It's a little bit cheesy but it's nicely displayed
Haha brilliant
This is an amazing video thank you for the info !!
Nice review! I do have the kitsch version of this watch with the aventurine dial for the last 8 months, bought for 240€, and I can say that so far its accuracy range from -4 sec to + 8 sec/ day, with an average between -0.1 sec to +5.3 sec/day. Mine does not have the skeleton movement but a back plate nicely machine finished with geneva stripes. For the money paid I can not find any major drawback for this watch. I really would like to see a video showing if this movement could be visually improved with some cleaning. Even better would a disassemble followed by an assemble of this movement. For reference the dimensions of my version's case are 42.4 mm diameter, 50.3 mm lug to lug and 10.9 mm thickness.
Taking it apart would be okay , getting it back together is a whole new ball game
@@MyRetroWatches I imagine so. Being the son of a watch maker and watching during my childhood the laborious work of disassemble and assembling back a watch movement I know that assembling this movement would took most likely more than a couple of hours. At least trying to clean it with rodico, the pegwood and even a non-abrasive wipe would be a very successful journey and not so laborious. I did that at the back of my watch movement and was able to remove the "iron" dust in the ratchet wheel and a stain in-between the geneva stripes.
@@MyRetroWatches you would probably need a few of them, these cheap pressed pieces don't reassemble well
Can I ask how your watch is holding up
@@silo3com Still working perfectky even after some months without use, it started to work after turning the crown twice. The only complain I do have is that the case back is not stainless steel, but it is chromed that aldeady started to peel off.
Thanks Mike, very nice, thanks for sharing. Happy New Year.
Same to you!
Not really a watch guy (well, yet!) but I really love the designs and ingenuity of watches. Found you through My (Our?) Mate Vince.
Thanks. Vince is great so thanks for coming over to take a look.
Hi Mike, happy new year to you and family, the tourbillion, i would have hoped for a more accurate and consistent movement especially in different positions but as you said not top notch quality parts stamped and other things, really good review though, cheers Mike cu in your next video.
I second the stripping down of rhe movement and seeing if you can get better accuracy, sometimes in China the QC isn't that great and lubrication is missed or omitted all together, would make a excellent video. Ta ta from Dave.
Thanks Dave, not sure I want t strip this down. On their website there is a video render of all the parts coming together. theres so many! I think taking it apart is probably very easy but putting it back together and making it work again is another thing entirely.
Nice video, love your channel Mike. Just a word on your microscope: I got a similar one in that it has both a screen and post base that are angle adjustable. This way I can work from behind the unit with the screen essentially uspide down and viewing the work area at an angle in the same line of vision as I am as I sit. This gives my wrists room to sit pretty comfortably each side of the base ahead of the post and lights and a very natural work view. Just something you might want to try.
Thanks. Thing is I won’t work under a scope anyway as I prefer loupes and my visor. I was more demonstrating that there is more focal length for people who need it.
I have found tilting the scope on its rack does not give an entirely focused image .
I will use this for filming and oiling / inspection. I still have my stereoscope which is handy for more precise work I might need to carry out.
Thanks though
@@MyRetroWatches No worries. You can't beat the loupe. Can't get used the the binocular scope. Another handy gadget is the small slim LED video lights with difuser. I place the under the movement to uplight when examining the pallet lube. I'm in full time watch school. Due to graduate end of 2022.
@@47zero like the idea of that light. When I reviewed the scope (see my video list) it’s a point I criticised, but then these type of video scopes are for inspection and soldering .
I am in contact with the manufacturer and want to write to them to see if they would add a light and possibly a ring light to the microscope lens tube.
They might listen to me, you never know.
1:56 Aesop (/ˈiːsɒp/ EE-sop or /ˈeɪsɒp/ AY-sop; Greek: Αἴσωπος, Aísōpos; c. 620-564 BCE; formerly rendered as Æsop) was a Greek fabulist and storyteller credited with a number of fables now collectively known as Aesop's Fables.
Great video. I think it's wonderful that tourbillons are now accessible by the masses at a price point below $500USD. Of course, nobody should be expecting a $20K 'swiss grade' watch for that level of finishing. If you have the time, please make a video showing the disassembly, cleaning, reassembly of the watch, and seeing if it would greatly improve the performance of the tourbillon. If that is the case, then somebody spending a total of less than $1K USD (e.g. paying ~$500USD for a Chinese tourbillon, and another $300-400 for a full service) can result in a reliable, interesting watch.
Another thing that I noticed is that the gear train, with the tourbillon omitted, uses large gears and pinions, similar to that in a 6497/6498 watch. Larger parts = more durable parts, and makes the watch more serviceable and reliable in the long term (e.g. in a 10-20 year period). What do you think?
You raise good points but we dont know the long term reliability. Parts may be big but are the pivots and staffs made of good steel? I will never really know as you would have to daily the watch for many years and as I have 100s of watches just to have it on two days in a row would be unusual for me! As for taking it apart, I am sure many want to see that but it does seem very complicated and putting back together would be a massive task plus to film it too. On the website link in the description it shows an animated render of all the parts coming together, its quite nice actually but you do then get to see just how many components there are!
Thank you for watching and commenting.
@@MyRetroWatches thanks for your reply. I understand that taking it apart+ filming it may be an incredibly difficult task, but it’s something that somebody like myself would love to see - at the moment I cannot find a Chinese Tourbillon disassembly/full service on RUclips. Based on the movement architecture, all of the gear train/motion works parts look straightforward. The Tourbillon looks complex, but it doesn’t look dramatically more complicated than a traditional lever escapement. Nonetheless, keep up the great videos!! We really appreciate it!
Hi Mike, Very nice watch. Only thing I have a question about is at 21:33-21:40, is there a missing screw hole? I would love to see this after taking a spin in the cleaning machine, and maybe a little bit of elbow grease on polishing some of the bridges and wheels. I bet it could look as sharp as the $$$,£££,€€€.00 Swiss ones. I think the dial looks very cool, no cluttering, simple and elegant. Enjoy it, just don’t drool (🤤) all over it. 🤣🤣🤣. Cheers!
A few weeks ago I bought a Chinese tourbillon. It cost me substantially more than yours.
Having done some research I found that there are definite grades of tourbillon and yours is one of the lower grade movements.
On the upside, the cheaper movements tend to be larger - hence the displaced dial and hands which makes the tourbillon larger and more visible. That's my major disappointment. On my watch it is quite hard for my rheumy eyes to see the details.
I have not looked at mine under a microscope but it does have visibly better machining to the rear components. The movement is also very quiet - inaudible and certainly quieter than other watches with low cost movements.
I had thought about buying a second watch with the movement you have - just for the sake of the larger tourbillon but your video has changed my mind. ;)
From everything I have seen, apart from the benefit of the larger tourbillon, I'd spend the extra money on a higher grade movement. The watch case is also rather nicer.
I wonder if the inconsistency you saw on the time grapher is the tourbillon doing its job? The relatively low grade movement being evened out as the tourbillon rotates? Mine seems more accurate. I keep it wound each day and over the course of a week or so I notice no need to reset the time.
Thank you for your detailed reply. I am learning from you guys! Someone else also said they have a better quality Tourbillon so it’s reassuring that there are others that might be better. Perhaps if I get asked again to review I might find a better brand. (What’s yours)
I’m still enjoying this one despite my disappointment on the close ups. I love just watching it but then I love movements so to be able to see it at the dial side floats my boat so to speak.
Thanks for commenting and watching the video.
@@MyRetroWatches hi, thanks for your reply. I bought a watch from. Sugess the su8230rgw cost was just under $700 before taxes. The movement is a Seagull su88230.
I chose this particular model because I wanted to try out the enamel dial with railway track markings before spending a lot more money on a watch with similar elements. I do like the design, but hate the script used for the branding on the face.
One thing I can’t figure out with these. If I managed to take the movement apart and rebuild it properly, how would i regulate it again with it spinning around like that?
very good point!
The wheel on the outside of the tourbillon reminds me of stop motion animation.
more simply Put -Balance pallet and escape are sitting on top of 4th wheel.
And all rotate as 4th wheel.
I would clean it thoroughly and attempt to polish the plates and other components a little bit to remove some of the microscratches.
I really don't fancy taking this apart. At least not yet. Thanks for watching.
It is insane that just upholding the value, manufacturing of some type of watches should be hold in Swiss only.
Actually a pretty good name
Knowing how horrid it is under the microscope ensure that I will never buy one as I could never be proud of wearing it regardless of the cost. Thanks for your detailed view of this watch.
I wonder if it is a matter of rotating parts or pins non concentric and there are two loose and two tight spots as the tourbillon rotates.
Great review thanks.
Good work,thanks.
Hi mate, another great review 👌🏻 your channel is growing nicely. Have a great new year.
Thanks, you too!
I would imagine that the error would increase when it was sideways because that escapement is climbing half go round falling tbe other it would only really be consistent if it was upside down or right side up.
On the way to really account for that I bet would be to have two escapements, opposite sides
I'm not a watch movement expert but I don't think a tourbillon makes the accuracy consistent throughout one rotation of the tourbillon but it averages out the deviations over time (many rotations). If an equal watch with no tourbillon is in a vertical position that gives it -20s/day but gives 0s/day in a 180 degree orientation it will be off 20s/day if in the "bad" position all day. If you then keep rotating the watch around and round consistently it will be in the bad position 50% of the time and in the good position 50% of the time. It will average it all out and will be off -10s/day. That's what a tourbillon does. But only in the vertical position like how pocket watches were usually worn.
love the video,great to see how it works, and i have a sugess SU8001SW on my way to me,stunning dail!(did not see the stupid gems on the bezel!) i will be wearing this DRESS watch on my work as a mechanic !🤣😂
Enjoy it. Affordable tourbillon should be used for the most mundane things as seeing them out of context is funny. I did a 5k fun run wearing one just because I thought how many people would even consider wearing a tourbillon for this!
very view people look at watches,but collectors. i some times wear my tag huer aquaracer to work,out of 200 people, just one saw it!😶
Great assessment.
Thank you Ian
Good review Michael. The attention to detail on this watch leaves a lot to be desired. A bit more time spent on the finish, aligning indices, simply cleaning the bridges etc would help.
Not my cup of tea so I wouldn't buy one. I am curious how much it costs to actually make one of these if they are massed produced.
Good points. Agreed the cost of manufacturing anywhere else in the world it would not be viable at this price point. That being said I think it might be overpriced given other models that are cheaper. I can’t say the others have the same movement or not.
I have also learned from the comments here that there are other better quality Tourbillon movements so perhaps in the future I might find one of those to review.
Really I like you man your job very nice..
Awesome review! Does the watch still work properly? Thinking of purchasing one.
I’ve had no problems with it. I think it’s expensive as there are others almost half the price. Always kept good time though.
@MyRetroWatches Thank you! They have them on sale this week $200. Guess I'll pick one up.
@@jasonmckee8145 that’s a good price for it!
I think you het a fair bit of watch for the money. I consider to get one. Or maby a movement to play with. :)
The difference on the TG, must be the balance on the tourbillion assembly. I feel the need to take it apart and clean it. But, i think the blued screws would be scrached up emidietly?