My A Lange and Söhne Zeitwerk fiasco. If you own a luxury watch, here’s how you can protect yourself
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2022
- This is not a watch review. It’s a summary of a watch owners unfortunate experience after having bought a luxury mechanical watch.
In my case, the watch in question is a Zeitwerk by A Lange & Sohne, however anyone who owns a luxury mechanical watch could find themselves in an identical situation or perhaps a very similar one.
In a nutshell, my watch stopped working, however after sending it back for repair, a fiasco ensued.
The purpose of this video (and my sincere hope) is that others like me - and it might even be you - learn from my experience and from my mistakes. Ultimately, I’m sharing this story so that you can protect yourself.
The thumbnail photo for this video is worth £3,500. One of your own photos could be too…
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Thank you (and sorry) to the following for my unauthorised use of your excellent video footage:
Watchfinder & Co.
Watch Collecting Strategy & Ticking Way
Black Tag Watches
Hodinkee
@PicnikMick
![Darren Waller - Who Knew (Her Perspective) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GytDjB8u6bM/mqdefault.jpg)
This was one of the best audiobooks ive listned to this year.
😂
agree
He did it in 1 take....
he should totally narrate them
First video on RUclips over 10 minutes that I’ve watched (no pun intended) from start to finish for years!!
I'm a watchmaker with about 15 years of experience and I'm working at a Lange & Söhne dealer. As soon as you mentioned the initial response from the manufacture, I 100% knew what happened. L&S dealers should know never to let anybody operate on a watch under warranty. L&S takes pictures of the watch once it is cleared from QC and they always compare the position of the case back screws to see if it has been tempered with. The pinched gasket was a dumb mistake from the Wempe watchmaker and they should have known better than to open a watch under warranty. One thing to mention though is that L&S aren't the definition of perfection and it happens that watches are delivered with slightly damaged screws, oil smudges or hair fibers on the movement. I worked on watches under warranty but I'm proud to say that I am extremely careful and conscientious about my work ethics/quality, so it never occasioned problems to our clients.
I also don't believe anything that Wempe has been telling you. I don't believe that they were supposed to take pictures of watches or that the person who handles your watch stopped working there. As soon as they heard from L&S, they knew the mistake was theirs. Maybe their watchmaker lied and said he didn't open the watch but given the fact that they offered to look at your watch and potentially fix a small issue doesn't make me believe that.
Instead of acknowledging their fault and take the costs on them they preferred to lie and insinuate that the fault was on your end.
@plifplouf Really interesting insights about this! Especially that the factory watches from L&S are NOT always perfect.
Anyway, the one thing we have not heard in all this is "why" the watch actually stopped in the first place. I mean, what was the actual problem with the watch. Have you ever seen this with a new, factory, L&S? Could you speculate?
I also thought it may be that they have some common "glitch" that was suspected, and easy to handle, which might have led some "hero" to think they could easily handle at Wempe. Or like that.
Other than anything obvious, they would have been a fool to tamper with it. What do you think on that score?
"L&S aren't the definition of perfection and it happens that watches are delivered with slightly damaged screws, oil smudges or hair fibers on the movement" are they 2020 Seiko in Disguise?? 😁here's me moaning about a misaligned bezel on an SKX! Seriously though, I would be incredibly cheesed off if I shelled out £100k for one of these only to find dandruff and pubes in it (OK - maybe that's an exaggeration but us watchmaker types see the tiniest spot of dust as a tonne of rotting dung.)
@@proto57 The ring in the "after" photograph shows a ring/gasket under the crystal sitting wedged against the outer edge of the caseback and the balance wheel. The balance wheel is a spring loaded flywheel of sorts that oscillates back and forth under tension of a hairspring. Given the placement of said ring, I would wager that friction applied by the out-of-place gasket ring applied a friction force against the balance wheel greater than the strength of the force applied by the hairspring which allows the balance wheel to oscillate, thus seizing the balance wheel completely, and this would in turn seize up the escapement (release of energy from the mainspring) through the palatte fork, which is basically the heartbeat of your watch. That's me guess.
@@HarryFlashmanVC dandruff , pubes and dung - that was frikin hilarious
@@SAXONWARLORD1000AD 😁
This is more captivating than most shows on Netflix.
definitely cured my insomnia
The fact that Wempe is willing to fix the problem at their cost I believe is an indirect admission that they did something wrong. The whole saga makes me appreciate having a nice cheap watch that can be repaired by any competent watchmaker in the world. In house movements can be a real pain...unless one lives in Switzerland.
I guess the employee that parted with them regularly did crappy work and they expected him to have messed with it.
In its basic function of telling the time of day, it's hard to beat a Hamilton grade 992B. They can be bought in deteriorated condition for less than $300 and with recent service for around $500.
I assume that the 'ex-employee' doesn't exist and it's just a slimy tactic to avoid taking responsibility for their incompetence@@jort93z
I agree , that would of been my first guess , but then if they fixed the issue it would void the original warranty unless L&S authorized them to fix it , which would never happen .
Im not sure I agree. My feeling was that Wempe said "we cant prove that you lie" and as a service we will just put it behind so you will spend more money in our shop in the future.
Just wow. It was like listening to a good drama audiobook. Sorry for your experience, but your storytelling skills are just more than great!
I was thinking the same thing as he told the story I literally paused the video to tell my brother “this guy really knows how to tell a story”
Yes! Like ‘Serial’, but for watches!
totally agree, feeling angry for this gentleman
Someone was caught being incompetent and won’t admit it because doing so would cause far more damage in the following embarrassment. Digging in their heels and hoping the customer gives up is a common strategy for many entities large and small, private and public. They would rather fault someone else rather than admit their own faults, simple as that.
Atmitting you made a mistake and solve it, is a way more stronger point to keep a customer comming back I think...
@@haping1 I agree. Unrelated product category - but I think that is part of why a newer computer keyboard company, "Wooting," is doing so well. They always release dead-honest vlogs and post honest blog write-ups of what their current status is, about product innovation, and any mistake(s) that they have made along the way.
I suspect the Wempe boutique didn't think their watch specialist had done any damage. When you provided enough evidence to win in court, they opted to pay without admitting responsibility. It wasn't Sohne's fault, so not surprised they wouldn't pay.
What I went to the comments to write. Saved me 1,7 lines of texting!
Exactly why I wouldn't give them my business again.
This is quite possibly the most thorough, eloquent, and graceful story I have ever come across on RUclips. The vocalization coupled with the brilliant editing and professional grade production value is simply impeccable.
On top of everything else, this is a lesson that can be applied to a host of situations, and not just applicable to the luxury Watch community.
Thank you, sir, for posting this phenomenal content.
What a lovely comment to receive… thank you 😊
Professional grade production? He literally took other people's video footage with authorization !
On the visuals and video, that is correct ✅ I did not seek authorisation from the content makers (although I have credited them).
Maunders aren’t reputable either, they’re overpriced grey chancer parasites.
My sentiments, EXACTLY !!
I thought I would skim through this to find out what the actual problem was, but I ended up listening to the whole 30 minute thing just because you told the story so well.
Did he say what the problem was?
@@russojap1864 Yes he did.
Me too!
Watchmaker here, and very well aware of the protocols of diagnosis in high-end horology brands like ALS :
It is, without even a reasonable doubt, this guy from Wempe who suddenly felt he was Sir Breguet reincarnated, but did as well as a poor lad with Parkinson.
As for ALS, they gave you the answer you would have received anywhere else, once it is opened by a non-authorized watchmaker/repair center (not the same as an authorized dealer) they basically have to do a complete service.
Reasong being that you don’t imagine what kind of crap a bad watchmaker can do in a couple minutes to fine pieces…or now you might have a glimpse of that !
Taking pictures is a good tip, but my takeaway from this experience is to never let anyone other than the manufacturer open, internally inspect, or attempt to repair such an expensive, complicated, and proprietary watch. The key mistake here was even entertaining the notion of a "quick fix". If there had been a screw rolling around, would you really have been ok with just reinstalling it and moving forward? Wouldn't you have wanted a complete evaluation to put your mind at ease that something else wasn't amiss?
🎯💯👏👊
As a watchmaker i think theres some caution to be had for this approach. Having worked in brands Modern Manufacturers will often do some crazy shit to your watches without you knowing. For example allot of brands now are not servicing watches but are instead just swapping movements with “refurbished” movements. And im not just talking cheap watches imagine your 30k gold chrono with a nice in house movement inside instead of even attempted to be fixed gets a 5 year old movement from someone elses watch and you loose your matching numbers.😅sometimes they will even swap the main bridge to the original to keep the numbers. This is all so they can syphon proftis to switzerland (its complicated) and also do large volume. At the luxury brand i worked at i swapped 12 7750 movements a day often from eta to sellita often without knowledge of the customer. We once had a watch where the only original part were the casing clamps everything else had been swapped!
Obviously at the super high end your probably going to want it to be sent back to the brand mostly just because of parts availability being removed from most private watchmakers but i wouldnt think your under 30k watches are safe in the hands of brands if you care about originality. Also if you have vintage watches brands will charge crazy prices and give huge waits i had a guy wait 6 months for a ballance staff from patek which cost him 2k just for the part which then broke after two years, it hadnt been properly hardened! I made him a new one in 2 days for half the price with far better finish
In the end Find a good watchmaker that is trustworthy and experienced if you want a expensive watch collection.
@@felixarbable agreed, some brands make ownership a bit difficult. My comments were related to this particular watch (which is why I mentioned "complicated and proprietary"). If your watch uses a fairly standard movement then certainly it becomes more likely that it can be serviced outside the manufacturer. I agree it would be nice to work with a qualified independent watchmaker. But I would suggest those people are in extremely short supply, and, the bigger manufacturers are making it harder and harder for them to get replacement parts. Some parts can be made from scratch by a skilled watchmaker (again, this part of the craft is becoming even less common among the already rare watchmaker industry - most are going to be simply swapping out parts, not making replacements) but for other parts it is not feasible to do so. I'd think a lathe turned part is the best case scenario, but for many things much more sophisticated tooling would be required.
@@hiboostsupra5965 yeh i mean also some modern movements have stuff made with LIGA, stamping or ion etching which isnt really availible to us and parts have become incredibly complex to make on a manual lathe. I have made wheels for older high quality watch and pocketwatches but i think it would be odd to do the same for a modern rolex for example and im not sure the customer would even want that so theres always that balance. Classical watchmaking techniques are often at ods with modern mass produced components.
I think allot of the brands put customers and watchmakers in a difficult situation where they offer really poor service, but also dont give accreditation or sell parts. And as things become more proprietary and brands take things in house the quality of servicing and movement swapping will only get worse. But your right its hard to know as a layman, if a watchmaker trustworthy and to even meet them as we’re majority wierdo recluses 😂
Good advice, but not always possible. I sent my Rolex GMT Master 6542 to Rolex via an AD and only got a message from Rolex saying "Sorry, we don't stock parts for that model" (so basically, hard cheese, you're on your own).
This was an absolutely riveting experience to listen to. The emotional peaks and valleys of the story were anchored by the wonderful voice narration. The mystery that was central to the plot, kept me riveted for the entire 32 minutes and 42 seconds. I am not being facetious. I have not been so entertained since the first time I watched The Godfather. Bravo maestro.
I could listen to this gentleman read Facebook’s Terms of Service at half speed and he would still have my undivided attention.
Unbelievable story, even better rendition. New subscriber!
I had an experience similar to yours, except in my case - it was a fault of mine. This was with Jaeger LeCoultre, and I was quite forthcoming about the mistake I had made; however, they waived the repair fee and I felt quite humbled by the entire experience that I've really not looked much outside of JLC since then. However uncomfortable this situation might have been for you, the story was quite a delight to listen to. Very engaging and very well articulated.
Kudos to the JLC reps that worked with ya , they def did well and won a customer for life in you . 👍
Never buy from richemont
@@jae7619 I think also depends on where one lives. My experiences so far have been with Richemont owned brands - Cartier, JLC, and VC. Never had a bad experience. Actually I just recently went into the Cartier boutique to have my Tank demagnetized - it was running erratically. They fixed it, no issue, no charges.
Excellent customer service from JLC
THIS is exactly how high-end companies, watch or otherwise, should treat their VALUED customers.
This wasn’t a similar issue but I turned in a Reverso for repair once because I had a very difficult time winding the watch. It went to Texas for service and when it came back to me it still had the same issue. I didn’t think anything of it at first, thinking that maybe because it’s an older model the issue might just be normal. When I sent that same Reverso five years later for a service, it went to Switzerland because I wanted to have an enameled engraving on the case back. When I got it back, the AD informed me that everything was free of charge. Free enameling and engraving and a free service. I could also wind the watch with no issues. JLC realized that their Texas service center didn’t correct the issue and made things right by giving me the free service and free enameling/engraving. I feel that Lange should’ve covered the repairs. After all, you’re a repeat customer and their watches are very pricey.
wow, now that's service with integrity!
Companies (as well as politicians) should be aware, that admitting a failure with an apologize is almost the best way. Thank you for sharing this exciting story ….btw. with a really nice watch 👍
The tone of this gentleman’s voice kept me riveted to the story.
Strange that the employee that took in your watch at the boutique left shortly after.
🤔
Perhaps it was banned
Or the employee is still there. Companies often do this to point blame on someone without having to Man up and take responsibility. Sounds like a Non-reputable A.D. to me. I don't like excuses, only results.
In any case the photographs would be put in the company files not retained by individual employees.
@@glennet9613 exactly, as if they'd have an oversight that glaringly large that the guy who takes the condition photographs takes them all with him when he supposedly "moves on".
The question that comes to my mind is how convenient it was for Wempe that the fellow who inspected your watch isn't with them anymore and they can't get a hold of him neither ?
Very fishy .......!
I was thinking the exact same thing!!!
It's a total fabrication. I would never trust them again for even offering this as an explanation.
They are luxury goods traders and not watch makers after all I guess.
This was very entertaining. The story is interesting and has a very good pace. All the elements are there, the drama, the buildup, the anger, the climax, the release and ultimately the happy ending with just a touch of bitterness.
A masterpiece!
happy ending......Im smoking a cigarette....
I know the same woman charged me 60 quid for the same last week ...rip off eh?
Instead of going to my watch repair man I went to a watch shop where a man said he could fix my watch where the only problem was the function. What happended? The small hand fell off, and my regular repair man said that the first man had opened it through the glass(!) and now the hand can not be fitted anymore. Lessons: watch can be damaged beyond repair if you go to wrong watch dealer and repair shop.
💯
Great job telling your story. After watching the video to the very end I observed that you did not come to the realization, at least in the video, that the problem you had with the watch stopping is not related to the "interference of a third party". No matter who opened the case back, Wempe or A. Lange & Sohne, the watch stopped working prior to you bringing the watch to Wempe. The problem with the watch, and therefor the repair rests solely with A. Lange & Sohne.
Good point. Well made. But I can’t help but forgive the mechanical aberration… it’s just a part of life.
@@watchenthusiastlondon agree....as do ALS (in principle if not in practice), hence they offer a warranty....It would be interesting to know how much of the work (ALS cost) to repair the sticking movement would be subsidied by others (you/AD) for the cost of repairing the damage to the gasket and movement......
What an incredible story. So sorry you had to go through this. I am very happy you got your watch repaired. Thank you for sharing your experience. I wish you all the best!
Wempe screwed up three times. 1) They admitted to have ‘looked’ at the watch, 2) they did not take photographic record and 3) they tried to distance themselves by attributing this omission on some nameless, faceless and uncontactable individual that was no longer in their employ. Your wife is a good sounding board.
I agree with your wife. Wempe are cheesed off at having to pay for a repair that wasn't their fault but became their problem because they were caught out doing something they weren't supposed to. And then they basically told you if they could refute your evidence, they would, but since they can't they have no choice but to accept responsibility for the repair cost. Nothing to do with value of your relationship. I wouldn't do business with them again.
Exactly. They only helped him
because they got caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar!
They didn’t help him because of past business with them and a loyalty to him/incredible customer service.
I would never deal with them again.
after hearing this i would have nothing to do with them!
@@jfdomega7938 Imagine spending that kind of money and being treated that way??? Just like your typical car dealership scumbags, they helped them because they got caught between a rock and a hard place or evidence. 😱
for the price of this watch I would take delivery on a road trip to Glashütte (via Prague airport), a 2 hour drive after a short flight.
Good news everyone!
They closed down. Permanently out of business.
In just two videos, this has become one of the most interesting watch channels on RUclips. Keep it up. Hell, with your soothing voice, feel free to talk about anything. It doesn't have to just be watches.
I wouldn't go to that boutique again. They didn't hold up full accountability. They basically said they are at fault for a missing picture, not tampering with the watch! They also didn't do a full investigation either, otherwise from the first correspondence they would have said they didn't have the picture as it would be a standard procedure in any reputable shop. Or most likely, they actually did that and saw they are at fault.
They paid for the repairs to brush under the rug the main fault. That's why they didn't apologise either, as it would be an admission of real guilt. Your contact there has no loyalty to you, but to the one that pays his bills : the shop. I wouldn't touch that shop ever again if I were you. It would be nice to also put up a review somewhere where people can see this and know where to be careful with their money.
The problem doesnt start at the boutique. Wempe is a great company. The problem begins, with his search of the "best price". There the lack of knowledge about this watch starts. So, at the end, its not his fault, but its his fault anyway. If he would have bought this watch at wempe, it would have been another story. Maybe not for the watch, but for him. instead of mistrusting everybody, he could have known the source of all of that. So at the end, its his fault for me. nevertheless it isnt in fact. The buy cheaper mentality is it, where it all starts.
@@Mullekular Great company doesn't mean it's infallable. It's not wrong to seek the better deal. It comes with a risk, sure, but he had all the papers, warranty etc. So it's not his fault.
@@Mullekular he bought from an AD who expressed willingness to return it to the factory for him. Instead he chose convenience and went to the dealer that wasn’t willing to work with him, who he undercut - expecting them to then spend time, which costs money to sort out the issue with the watchmaker to get them to receive the watch under warranty.
It’s quite possible someone at Wempe said “hey see if you can un-jam this thing so we can get back to the business of selling watches- this guy went elsewhere for this one”.
The best price did come from an AD and the AD’s inky fault that we know of is that of people several hours away by way of airplane.
Going for the best price is a gamble that’s still paid off for the OP, but we are talking about a watch that’s likely over 100k. That move cost Wempe tens of thousands of dollars. You think they didn’t remember him being in there looking at the watch? They damned well know what that cost him…. You really think that store wants to spend time and energy sorting out a warranty issue?
The OP knows how complex these watches are and how expensive they can be to maintain, he mentions owning others and a 2k+ repair bill. Even if he had to lay this repair bill out of pocket, I have to guess he was saving a hell of a lot more than 3.5K.
So in the end, it’s about principal. Whatever the OP saved by buying from an AD in Italy 10,000?, maybe 15,000, who knows he cost Wempe that and more. Playing in that world, I wouldn’t want to gamble on whether or not there’s some spiteful people working at or running Wempe. There was no reason given as to why the employee was no longer at the boutique, just mention they weren’t on speaking terms etc.
The guy could have been fired for tampering with that very watch for all we know. Then they pass it off to the factory for them to discover it and brush it under the rug.
Obviously that’s pure speculation on my part- but something is going on there and Wempe being an authorized dealer presumably could lose their dealership rights if that kind of meddling came to AL&S’s knowledge - so their chances of taking responsibility are greatly reduced. The guy who took the watch in is conveniently out if the picture.
The dealer this was bought from should have been given the first opportunity to make things right and if that was deemed too inconvenient, then yes, it should never have been bought from them in the first place,
@@waterfordrs22 It doesn't matter if he bought it from a grey dealer in the Sahara Desert, if the watch is under international warranty, Wempe or any other Authorized Dealer of ALS is expected to handle this with utmost professionalism - and most would. If not solely for the fact of being the ALS access point for servicing/warranty issues, then certainly for servicing their current or potential future customers.
Whether or not they remember the client being there, expressing interest in the watch or not is completely irrelevant. This is a high-net worth individual and as a highend franchise like Wempe, these customers are HIGH HIGH HIGH on their list of people they want being a client in their store. Doesn't matter if it's for servicing a watch purchased through them or not.
With that said, I have had a Chopard serviced by Wempe (under warranty), even if I didn't buy it there, it was just simply the closest point of service to me. I was treated with absolute respect and they even gave me some additional goodies when I picked it up again.
The wife's perspective explained at 26:55 > 28:25 is completely on point. Wempe is 100% at fault and just won't admit it, which is an absolute disgrace considering the evidence OP has in his favour.
@@nomansland120 I agree-.
That he bought through Chrono 24 is not the matter. That was my overriding point. His beef is with Wempe not C24.
That said, there’s basic psychology, there’s how things should be and how they are. Wempe clearly dropped the ball and isn’t taking responsibility for it.
The dealer who sold the watch is the motivated party. Wempe may be obligated as a dealer - buy the proof is in the pudding.
I’m so glad this was recommended!! Thank you for this story… brilliantly told! I found myself rooting for you and getting frustrated… and was relieved that the resolution was relatively positive for you. I’m sure you’d prefer never to have gone through it, but I hope the additional knowledge and insight are a consolation to some degree. Thanks again for the fantastic chronicling of events and I hope your collecting experiences are all smooth from here on out!
Thank you
Why did I just watch this entire video for a second time. It's 4am now and I'm equally as enthralled as the first time by this well articulated suspense. Cheers for an amazing story and letting us learn from and be entertained by your experience.
Same lol
Sorry for your experience, I'm glad things worked out in the end. On a side note, your storytelling ability is absolutely impeccable!!
Thank you 🙏
Fantastic story that I can share on my Breguet. From the time the watch leaves your hands until the moment it is returned it is OUT OF YOUR HANDS. Owning an expensive watch makes you a target not only for petty criminals but sophisticated business to business characters as well
I was just entertained for over half an hour by listening to someone's watch fiasco.. 2022 is such a weird place.
Never the less. This watch stopped before anyone took it apart.
Yeah brother what an expensive POS
@@blueswan2175 i don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a watch to do what is designed to do. Regardless of the cost.
You talk about taking the watch to Wempe for evaluation. They determined that it was beyond their scope to fix it. In order to make this determination, I would think that removal of the case back was necessary to make this determination. I think that this is no reason for A Lange not to stand behind the watch. As an A Lange owner, I am a little bit disappointed in their decision. Interesting. Thanks for the advice to document everything.
I never even considered the removal of the case back as being an issue. I was dealing with an authorised dealer after all. That said, at no time did Wempe say they had opened the watch. In fact, they were adamant that they didn’t.
As to Lange, I agree and share your disappointment. It should have never got to where we ended up…
A word to the wise well done! A photo is for sure worth a thousand words and 3500 GBP. Mind blowing how people handle other people's property behind closed doors and the sad part it goes on every day in all repair situations from automobiles to zoo renovations
Now that 'zoo renovations' comment sounds like an interesting story! 😂😂
Yeah true! I mean who can hand on heart, say they've never had a problem with their zoo renovations! 🤣
I respect your patience and fairness. I've now worked in the watch and jewellery industry for over 3 years, and in that time I've seen a multitude of complaints, many of which were not caused by us (some inadvertently so), escalated to the very top. Often the directors' table. The fact that you didn't even think to do so, is frankly, quite astonishing.
Thank you for sharing this with us, really appreciated your story and for sharing your experiences as well.
It's almost certain that someone tempered with your watch at Wempe. Everything about this story raises red flags. The person who is no longer at the firm, your wife's intuition, their overtly gratuitous solution, "oh look we are still going to pay anyway" with NO APOLOGY, and the very simple fact that it's not always that complicated. Mysterious boogeymen don't just suddenly show up and tamper with watches and leave. You seem to have this unjustified loyalty to Wempe just because you bought 3 watches from them and your agent is polite. And you say you will still maintain a relationship with them? I think you need to listen to your own youtube piece carefully. Avoid that Wempe boutique. It's very simple. Trust your wife's intution.
Apart from agreeing wholeheartedly with everything that Dissident Aggressor says, I'm utterly astonished that you use your video to have a swipe at Watchfinder (a company to whom I have no connection, but who cannot be anything but innocent in this affair), and then you have the nerve to use a substantial chunk of their video footage! Whatever happened to British "fair play"?
@@peterh4381 I think you are confusing Watchfinder with Chrono24. Not once in this video is Watchfinder mentioned; and what is mentioned of Chrono24 is certainly not a ‘swipe’, but an expression of personal preference - which I think you can agree is more than fair to include in this video.
Yeah, maybe the person who is no longer there was fired for tampering with watches (or even THIS watch), but if that was the case it's definitely something they will want to keep hush about.
I agree 100%
Well said. All that investigation proved where the problem happened. Peopöe make mistakes sure. HOWEVER...their choice was to try to hide it, trick and lie to you, lie to the manufacturer...RUN AWAY FROM THEM
One thing is certain here- that watch is absolutely gorgeous, it’s amazing. I’m sorry to hear about this unfortunate situation.
Interesting, Wempe on Bond Street is GONE!
After having been represented in London for more than 25 years, we will close our showroom on New Bond Street on 10 March 2023. We would like to sincerely thank you for your confidence and the many wonderful encounters we had during the past years.
Mar 10, 2023
Thanks for sharing this story with us. It has a beautiful subtle depth.
From the moment you mentioned they'd have someone in London look if they could repair it, it was pretty clear to me that person would've opened the case. How else are you going to see if it can be fixed? There are layers upon layers in Lange watches. Not everything is visible from the exhibition window.
I'm glad you took that picture, and Wempe taking full responsibility is the only right thing to do. I personally would've followed up with everyone you asked directly or indirectly if they had opened the caseback, and informed them of the status and resolution of the repair. Just to set their mind at ease that they are not suspected of interfering with the watch movement.
This is what I thought. Seems pretty cut and dry once the photo revealed the boutique got the watch in good working order. Not sure how you can make a determination as to why an extremely complex watch seized up in a particular situation without at least opening the case and looking at the movement unless the problem was blatantly obvious.
Amazing story.. I'm surprised to hear you were treated like that by AD even after 3 watches.
I’m a little more pragmatic than my wife, but however you look at it, this was an uncomfortable situation and as she says, “not a very high end experience”. Really, this is a mistake that occurred at and was then rectified by Wempe, but that same boutique is branded A Lange & Sohne…
ADs are scumbags.
Unfortunately, the high end watch market has managed to create an environment where demand so greatly exceeds supply that customer service is becoming optional.
@@watchenthusiastlondon I'm shocked by this story.
As far as I am concerned, a brand's responsibility should extend to the AD and the responsibility should thus be shared between them. If the brand authorised that dealer, the brand must share responsibility for any wrongdoing done by that dealer.
The customer should never be blamed or forced to conduct extensive investigations to prove their innocence and to find the guilty party.
If A Lange and Söhne are worth anything at all, they should divorce themselves from any AD which conducts themselves with anything less than absolute honesty and professionalism.
@@beardymcbeardface69 Offering an apology is the least of what Should be expected from Lange
Wow! An captivating eye opener indeed! Lot´s of stuff to be learned from this for many, not only the people involved. Thank you for this very well put together video.
Excellent advice and so pleased you finally got a sort of closure even without the full satisfaction of having your reasoning understood and acknowledged with grace and sincerity. I've just sent my Rado watch (more menial but of pleasing appearance and excellent timekeeping) back to Rado's service department and wish now I'd taken a set of pics for record and comparison even though its value is in another universe compared to Lange and Sohne's creations.
The gasket being out of place was the obvious issue, but it also looked like the screw next to it had been gouged pretty badly. Those two things would have been pretty trivial to fix. The Zeitwerk is a super complicated watch. While any competent watchmaker could open it without damage, going further than that takes specialized knowledge, and potentially parts that are only available in house at ALS. If ALS had done that, they have the watchmakers and the parts needed to fix it and wouldn't have tried to pawn the charge off on anyone. It's apparent somebody messed up. I'm tending to think it was somebody at your boutique. I think they tried to do the repair themselves, got in over their head, were sloppy putting everything back together and then sent it on to ALS. The story of the 'former employee' is BS. Photos like that wouldn't be kept by the employee, they'd go immediately into company files. My guess is they have the photo(s), they show that it was them who damaged the watch, and they don't want to risk ALS knowing they tried doing the repair, or you finding out what actually happened.
Yes, it seems that is exactly what happened.
Oh the story of the 'former employee' is one of the oldest in the book. I wouldn't ever deal with them again. Deplorable.
@@kchappelle Former employee story is on par with "dog ate my homework".
@@arlekin1976 Ha ha...
I totally agree. But Wempe is not a man, it's an organization. They might have not understood immediately what happened. They might have understood later, but tried to protect the good name of the firm. Saying "we are not sure how this happened and whether it's our fault, but we accept responsibility and cost" is fine in my book. There is no need to say "of course it's our unprofessional behaviour and we pay for the repair, please excuse us".
17:44 made me chuckle. Even the most experienced and luxerious watchmakers make mistakes. Literally everyone makes mistakes, but owning up to your mistakes is where one can make the difference. Experiences like these always leave a sour taste in my mouth.
Thanks for the video. As soon as you mentioned the initial offer to 'take a look', I thought oh-oh!
Thank you for putting that together, it was very informative and thrilling! I have learned a good lesson from you!
I'm really sorry for what happened to you. What a nightmare for a watch enthusiasts (and of course everyone else). Thank you for sharing this with us in such a crime-style way.
What is Krimi-style way
@@jamesmclean2669 Now where you asked this I noticed that I used the German word. I corrected my mistake. Thanks for noticing. Krimi = Crime or Thriller
Zeitwerk owner here. Awesome story, very well narrated. So sorry you went through all this and had to do the investigation youself. Of course, Lange knows if a case back has been opened, they have heuristics like the exact torque of the screws, etc. (talking from memory). If ALS says the watch has been opened and tampered with, you can rest assured they know what they are saying. What is surprising to me is that someone at a boutique even thought about doing this. Anyone in this sector knows opening the watch is going to be detected in the manufacture and automatically voids the warranty. You can't even take watches to the manufacture without their original strap. Maybe that person was behaving wrongly and was fired? What a disappointment. Happy to hear that in the end you could understand what went wrong, otherwise this could have been chasing you for a long time. Having the repair for free is also good, but understanding what happened, as you said, was even personally more important given the situation.
Ah, a comment about being waterproof. Watches like this are waterproof to certain degree not because you are going to wear them in the pool, but because that prevents dust and humidity from entering the movement. The movement has to be sealed for its integrity.
Fantastic narration. Kept me enthralled. Please make more
this story was more thrilling than any Midsomer Murders episode ever made , hats off to you !
"it's not a very high-end experience". that made me chuckle
It isn't, I guess bmw isn't high end. Your always to blame for poor work man ship they sold me a car with navigation without proper screen.
@@yo-ry1np the build of the watch was not the issue here. did you watch the video?
Thank you for sharing your experience, though a unpleasant one. I have learnt from experienced dealers to always take photos of the watch front and back from multiple angles on the day it is send in for any servicing or repair work. The photos taken will served as evidence the conditions of the watch. This is very important when dealing with high value timepieces.
Loved ur video! And that voice is perfect for this situation!
WOW! What a story. I was thoroughly engrossed. Thank you.
First of all I feel incredibly sorry for what you must have gone through. Secondly I admire your wonderful narration.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to take photos of your watch before sending it away, a lesson I learnt the hard way. In January I sent my grandfather's vintage watch for repairs, I was specific with my requests and made it clear that I wanted the dial to remain untouched to maintain the vintage look of the watch. I was quoted the work would take 12 weeks, this was back in January.
After quite a few phone calls and emails with various reasons as to why the work was taking so long, I received the watch at the end of August, 8 months after sending it off. As soon as I opened the package I noticed that the dial looked completely different and the placed lettering on the dial was uneven, even amateurishly placed.
Luckily I had taken photos of the watch before I sent it off, this enabled me to email them side by side comparisons of the watch before and after the work they did.
Thankfully the company have accepted their errors and are working to resolve the issues, they quoted another 6 weeks to rectify the mistakes, I'll be chasing them up in the next few weeks.
Thank you for sharing your story and I look forward to hearing more from you on your channel.
did your grandfather's watch ever get fixed correctly?
I would have immediately suspected the boutique who said to leave it for inspection and then LATER said that it had to be sent to Glashutte. How else were they supposed to "diagnose" it? By looking at the movement through the see-thru case back without opening it?
This!
But then it would only be a 5 min video... Im sure the author also knew this..
For small/obvious issues you can actually pretty much diagnose it just by looking at the movement through the crystal. You do need to open the watch to fix the issue (obviously) though.
What an incredible story.
One picture saved you. Good job.
Thank you for sharing your experience. A valuable lesson learned. I’ve had a few of my watches serviced and never thought to take pictures…at all! I will now.
Thank you so much for sharing this in such depth. I have a Saxonia Annual Calendar which I had to return to A. Lange as the small second hand had fallen off. I was asked if I had dropped or hit the watch. Luckily I could proof that it was unworn and in the bank safe with the sticker still on. I had saved this watch for a wedding to wear it for the first time. No one doubts A. Lange could make mistakes on the watches. But they do. As you said - they are just humans too
The worrying thing it seems, is that your experience kind of casts some doubt over Langes after sale service? Someone else on here had superb service from JLC even AFTER admitting he had caused the issues on the watch. Great stuff from JLC. For me I’ll stick to my Grand Seikos.
Fantastic video (sad story with a happy ending). I'm shocked that at this level the customer has been doubted and or lent on to foot the bill. I'm a long-time Lange fan, can't quite afford a Zeitwerk but would love on one day. Lesson learned from your situation. Thanks!!!
This was an incredibly well told story
Wow. Just wow. What a frustrating progression of events. Frankly, this feels like something that would absolutely happen to me, and I guess misery loves company! Jokes aside, I’m glad you’re sorted and hopefully continuing to enjoy that absolutely incredible piece! There’s really nothing that compares to that watch… in only a way that A. Lange & Söhne have continually proven and provided!
Sorry to hear that story :( However please keep making those videos. It is such a pleasure! :)
Thank you i
Thanks for the story. Good lesson to learn and sorry you had to go thru it.
Thank you sir for sharing your experience and the lessons learned
Incredibly detailed, comprehensive video. Every watch enthusiast, no matter new or experienced should view and "get it."
Another fantastic video / story, great work!
Thank you 🙏
Interesting story. This watch is really beautiful. Glad you have it back and fixed, after all.
Thank you.
22:14 The elation I felt here. Loved the video, it was genuinely gripping and fair play sticking to your guns and not just giving up like I would have done.
This was riveting! I felt like it was a Sherlock Holmes story waiting for that final genius clue that gives the culprit away!… and your wife is correct, £3500 is a lot to be sure, but not to ALS, not to Wempe, especially at the risk of alienating a client who spent (so far), some 40 or 50 times more! As a business person there was only one option and it was to eat it whether you’re ALS or Wempe and give you that absolutely deserved apology… 100% my a$$!!! 💪🏼
As an avid--albeit lower echelon--watch collector, I tend to side with your wife. Your integrity should have been unquestioned; receiving a proper concierge relationship should be implicit for a producer or service provider in the high-end watch market--or any other, for that matter. That's the philosophy I practiced before retiring as a corporate/VIP pilot. My clients were paying a considerable sum of money to enjoy the service and convenience of on-demand air transportation and I believed it was my job was to provide it, no questions asked.
I bought a microbrand Swiss pilot's chronograph I'd fallen in love with, but during the first week the watch failed to restart when I reset the crown. I cycled it again and it ran properly. Just to be on the safe side, I notified the manufacturer and requested a return & repair authorization. Instead the company immediately shipped a replacement, with instructions to keep the defective watch, which by the way, never gave any further trouble. (I gifted it to my son, an electrical engineer, and he loves its cachet.) You should have been treated at least that well. Cheers.
The 7750, what you overwhelmingly likely have, sometimes gets its hacking brake stuck. This happened to me once and required me to go in and loosen it, and i have never had an issue since. In case you are curious or worried about it, i would say to quell those as it will likely never happen again and isn’t a fault with the crucial parts.
You sir, are an excellent and riveting story teller. I came for the watch and stayed for the story
Thank you for this video. Your story is very educational, and I shall follow your advice.
Interesting content and commentary. Enjoying this new channel
What a crazy story and wonderful video. I am a watch collector as well and do buy Lange watches. Not sure if this helps but I am really good friends with the owner of the Lange AD I use. They have been a Lange Ad for over 12 years and recently opened a true dedicated boutique. In all those years they insist only a true hand full(less than 10) have ever had to go back to service during the warranty period for non owners damage ( ie jumping in pools, dropping on tile floor, or something more exotic ). They sell many other brands as well and Lange is clear winner over time. Glad it all worked out in the end and fully understand the hurt emotions you felt as you seem like an honorable human being. Before your watch was tampered with I think you had the terrible luck of being a rare victim of QC from Lange. Maybe the gent who longer works there is the guilty party who tampered with you watch? Look forward to more content from you as your content is badly needed in this space.
Thanks for the insight. As you say, I may well have simply been unlucky… it does happen. Appreciate the information.
Very interesting story.
Thanks for sharing….👏🏼
You’re welcome.
Very good, much appreciated. Sorry you had to go through this. There are more horror stories from within the "luxury" realm than people will readily admit.
Perhaps the most interesing and informative U-Tube view I have ever seen . Thank you .
Fantastically narrated. It's not common to watch/listen to a RUclips video over 15 mins without pausing, but this was so easy to listen to. Incredible communication!
22:15 amazing investigative work. Hope A Lange & Sohne seriously puts some legal effort into finding out who did this. Very unprofessional
Educational to say the least. Thank you for your time and attention to detail as you told us how all of these events unfolded.
Hi recently stumbled on your channel. I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed your Zeitwerk video( I have watched it more than once). I am hoping to get one someday .... I like the early ones. I'll have to keep my eyes open for just the right piece. Watching your video made me very aware about servicing it. Who knew that you could get into such a fiasco buying from an AD. WOW ! Thanks for sharing your experience. I look forward to owning one someday... till then I have my Lange 205.086 I look forward to more of your content. You are a real pleasure to listen to. Keep up the good work.
Awww. That’s a lovely message. I’ve not had a chance to make another video recently, but you’ve just spurred me on to do a proper deep dive review of the Zeitwerk…
ps the Saxonia Thin is wonderful. I’ve never been up close to the starry night sky on your model but it’s a stunning looking watch 😊
I watched the video out of curiosity and stayed for the quality storytelling and this unique take on horology content, I'll stick around to see where the channel goes from here.
Great video and fantastic watch collection.
Thank you. Pleased that you got something from it. Not sure where the channel goes from here (I never imagined that I would ever make a video like this), but will continue to stick to what I find most interesting & hope others are able to relate. 🙏
An interesting and informative tale, wonderfully articulated. I stumbled across this channel and was drawn in by the title; A Lange and Sohne Zeitwerk Fiasco, words which should never appear in the same sentence. It sounds like curiosity may have got the better of someone at Wempe but they realised the reassembly was beyond them and hence it was hurriedly put back together. We expect and deservedly so, that any luxury purchase is supported by flawless process and attention to detail but as humans we fail periodically. A similar experience happened to my father-in-law when he returned his Audemars Royal Oak for service. Questioning where his beloved timepiece was after 7 months, he was informed that a disgruntled employee had discarded it in a drawer and the watch had seemingly disappeared. It was eventually returned fully serviced at Audemars cost, but nonetheless, not an experience one would associate with such a prestigious brand. I am truly envious of your collection and hope you now get to enjoy your exquisite purchase!
Spot on. 💯 🎯 Thank you. ☺️
But then it was no A Lange fiasco it was a Wempe watchmaker fiasco 😅
VERY cool story bro. What a massive ballache to deal with that. Must say I've been close to pulling the purchase trigger on something in the 5k price band but the fact that huge money watches can still mean no guarantee from an awful experience has really put me off upgrading my GOD TIER 5610. Heartfelt thanks.👍.
Thank you for the candid commentary
I agree with your conclusions about how you should proceed in the future. It's best to buy direct, touch it with your own hands and keep it in your sight.
"We can't prove it's our fault, but we still want the guilt to lie with you" Is what I hear from the Wempe Boutique.
English isn't my first language, so I'll just say, that I could feel your pain all the way through this horror story. I'm glad it worked out for you.
Thanks for sharing.
the story was objectively very mundane but subjectively I was captivated.
I've frequently encountered this situation (mostly non watch-related) where an obvious mistake by a seller and or company is first challenged, then, after sufficient proof, accepted, but without a proper apology, and finally, due compensation is then presented to me as being based on their goodwill. Getting back to horology, it has been very interesting to follow your story, and having gone through minor issues with (albeit not as expensive watches) I can tell that sadly, your relationship with a certain watch stays tainted for a while after you had to attach all those negative experiences to it. I hope you can overcome these in due time in your case :).
Sadly, you are 💯🎯✅
at the end of all this, that was a pretty expensive publicity Lange got. And they got it pretty cheap... for only 3,500GBP. This reminds me of an old quote I've heard this once: "the truth is only what you can prove".
Wow, this video turns out to be a mystery story. Thanks for sharing!
You’re welcome.
Great story. Aside from being a great design. That watch now has an interesting history. Thank you for sharing.
To add to your "take a picture" advice, I would suggest that one always ask for a name (or some other way to identify them) when dealing with a phone representative. I have had numerous situation were something was promised ( a refund, credit, etc.), and when I called later having not received it, been informed that there was "no record of the conversation". I have found that when I ask for a name, or number, that this issue disappears ...
A fascinating story for us watch nerds. Immense respect to you for not rolling over and investigating!
Not being there to make a purchase of this calibre in person is insane to me.
Your wife’s assessment of the situation was absolutely fair and accurate. The shop gaslighted you, plain and simple. Had they properly audited the possibility that they were at fault when the claim was made, they should have taken responsibility, apologized, and promptly moved on. It’s absurd because they seemingly believe you were somehow exploiting a lapse in their data management process; as though you knew the photo was missing and responsibility would fall to them if you pushed for it’s recovery. I’m not sure that I would manage to visit the shop again after such an ordeal. It’s a lesson for us all nonetheless. Thanks for sharing.
Agree, she was (and usually is) bang on. And yes, I have since struggled to return to the same boutique…