Does Feminism Include Trans Women? Female Feminists vs Antifeminists | Middle Ground
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
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0:00 intro
0:22 if you're a woman, you should be a feminist
5:28 there's no wrong reason to get an abortion
12:18 the feminist movement is inherently racist
18:52 feminists don't appreciate all that men do for society
26:20 only women should make laws about women's bodies
32:59 feminism that doesn't include trans women isn't feminism
39:50 I secretly crave men's approval
45:18 it's rational for women to fear men
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Развлечения
did this conversation help you find empathy with the other side?
Fortnite
no
Edit- 1k likes for a single syllable? Jeez
No
Middleground ideas:
Male Feminists vs Female Antifeminists
Creationist Christians vs Evolutionist Christians
Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice democrats
Pro-life republicans vs Pro-choice republicans
Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice republicans
It helped me understand the other side.
"Feminism means I can't be a housewife" is such a terminally online take.
You might think this is a hottake, but I literally know feminists who think housewife = slavery and the fact that women still want to do it, a sign that we havent ovethrown pateiarchy
That whole anti feminist side is terminally online. They didn’t even take to time to try and understand the other side either, they also thought that because they didn’t like the feminist, the feminist would dislike them as well which shows by how hostile they were.
@@an-meboth sides are terminally online. They both suck
"Not being feminist means you want women to be paid less"
She didn't say that at all. She said she got back-lash when wanting to be a house wife. I think misrepresenting what someone says is a terminally online take.
Why do people think that you can't both be a feminist AND a stay at home mom? You can be both.
Because it's all about appeasing the male ego
@@barbymadison878 what is?
@Barby Madison No it isn't, that seems like something a woman would say if she's insecure about how others will look at her. Nike wants to be a housewife of her own choice or are you going to ignore and disregard a fellow woman's words when they don't match up with your idea of feminism? 🤔
Because a lot of feminist are hostile towards women who value traditional feminine roles
@@fearfullywonderfullymade691 when women are forced to be stay at home moms, then yeah, it is an issue. I am absolutely not traditional at all, but I CHOOSE to stay home with my son. It's where I'm happiest. But if I wanted to work outside of the home, that's what I would do. If I had a high paying job and my husband wanted to stay home, I'd support that. It's about equality and the freedom to choose in my family what we want to do. My husband doesn't rule the roost.
THE WAY THE ANTI FEMINISTS STARTED IMMEDIATELY TALKING ABOUT TRANS WOMEN WHEN IT WASNT RELATED😭😭
Yea bc they gota make sure the feminists even know what a woman is.
Well that’s because this video revolves around women, correct? The anti feminists are wanting them to define a women, because a ton of people don’t know what a women even is now. And to have this discussion they need to know what they mean when they say “women” which the feminist all failed. A women is not a feeling, it’s biological. That was why they asked what a women is. Barely anybody knows anymore
@@haleighsandovaly’all only have one joke and it’s not funny. 😐
@@chroma._.5986 what’s the joke💀
@@haleighsandoval you 💀
The fact that Arielle said that the friend of Riki that she shouldn’t have “spread her legs” to not get pregnant, the fact that Riki had to say that her friend was r*ped was a bombshell, Arielle should’ve thought a bit longer before making those comments
when was this in the video? i cant find it :((((
@@camoply 31:25
Why is it a "bombshell"? If you consented to sèx, it's perfectly reasonable to say you need to take responsibility for the resulting pregnancy. It's an entirely different scenario in case of assault
@@Ah_Be That's Where we disagree. The innocent child shouldn't have to pay with its life for your choice to have sèx
Weird that she had to bring up her transwoman friend to garner sympathy and then demeaning someone else's friend story lol
All of Nike's points were made out of her childhood trauma... Her problem isn't with feminism, it's with the parents that weren't there for her
literally, its all personal issues..
Exactly, it seemed like she should be talking to a therapist about this
rather than projecting her issues with her mom onto the entire movement.
I don’t see this at all
Exactly
@@Lemmeknowlemmeknow One example, she said in the video that she was very conflicted when it came to abortion because externally, her mother was very pro abortion/choice, but at the same time, she told her daughters that they should never get one
As a woman, this discussion was exhausting.
Yes, like Isabella just didnt know how ignorant she is
@@anaiahevans1540 She wasn't ignorant what are you talking about?
@@anaiahevans1540 as a woman, Isabella spoke facts.
@@Lightguardian_HOH watch it again and see what i mean
Dont matter woman moment
She ate her up w the “we heard a lot about your mother what about you” like yessss thank u
I’m a feminist and I don’t think the definition of feminism has ever changed, I think people have changed their perspectives on it and get misinformed and misinterpreted a lot
nah, it was a group of feminists who didn’t understand the whole point of equal rights. If that happen within the movement, then don’t act like it was the people outside of the movement who misunderstood everything. 😉
Many feminists have caused the feminist movement to be seen as a negative with all the buzzwords like "manspreading" and "mansplaining". Not to mention many of them are the kind to hate both men and boys.
Feminism is not about equality anymore
i agree. the definition of feminism has not changed. people have just been misinformed and are not understanding the difference between feminism and what people claim to be feminism
@@jessicasousa9301maybe there were more vocal and louder, but that doesn’t mean you generalize all feminist as radical feminists
ISABELLA IS SO RIDICULOUS HAHAHA. shes like “well if i was never affected by it, it never existed”
major mean girl vibe. and guess who mean girls appease and bully?
@@justicedoesntexist1919 you think she's mean? try knowing that 2+2=4, but we live in a "truth" where 2+2= anything but 4, and if you try to claim that 2+2 = 4, you're gonna be in trouble.
The opposite of that is also true. There are those on the feminist side that say, because it happened to me, it’s all that exist and they apply their blanket to it.
@@misanthrophexsrry but i don’t get it 😭
Found the future cat owner 😂
when isabella said "i don't care!" and all the feminists were like "of course, you don't have to care" and she almost didn't get it ☠
It wasn't almost, it was she didn't get it entirely
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you saying she has white privilege?
@@Kitsunekone yeah and just the privilege of being an upper middle class woman in america
@@sea_of_love Gotcha.
@@sea_of_lovewhat’s white prívelage? Black privelage is breaking laws and being called victim
Riki is so eloquent and calm, she was literally so calm throughout and never went for personal attacks
Dogma is still dogma even when it is articulately expressed
@@satisfiedatheist8762 she didn't have any extreme dogma unlike the antis, and like I said she didn't come for anybody
You might want to watch this again. She asserts (hence dogma) there is no scientist who would agree with Male and Female no being a reality which is complete nonsense. She won’t accept any suggestion that many credible peer review studies contradict her (and she doesn’t countenance the idea that she is misinterpreting what she might have read). There are of course many instances of Intersex but that does not mean male and female don’t exist and that sex is a spectrum - they are simply other, albeit very rare, chromosomal arrangements.
@@satisfiedatheist8762 give me timestamp
Around 39 mins I think
My idea of feminism is choice. You have the choice to be a CEO; you have the choice of being a stay at home mom. You get to decide what you do, which is why I believe everyone should be a feminist. We all deserve the choice of what we want to do in life.
Don’t guys have that choice too?
@@sarahnewton2550 yes. Everyone deserves the choice, no matter their race, gender, or any of that.
I think in a way, it also gives men more choices, as it breaks down a patriarchal structure, it opens up more options, such as stay at home dad, while being shunned less :]
@@benjamincharlton1388true and not to feel bad about his choice.
@@sarahnewton2550how the one blamed her mother for tearing down and emasculating her father.
this video really demonstrates how you could never win an argument against ignorant people lol
Yes modern feminists are very ignorant.
Completely
You can definitely win arguments against ignorant people, they usually stop responding or block you, I've had many feminists do that when they realise they have no chance against my big brain when all they bring are their incorrect regurgitated quotes. Let's look at these people, they're feminists so sure they're correct they'll go on a show and debate and what do they bring "they're a clump of cells", like how little debate have they ever done that they would STILL use that pathetic quote? Everyone is a clump of cells. That's the immediate thing everyone would say to that, you don't even need to be anti feminist to figure that out, yet they still say it, it's pathetic lol
Literally
@@Death-999 so we as human beings are equivalent to something which doesn’t even have the ability to form a thought are you vegan ? Have you ever walked on grass because essentially it’s the same thing a baby is completely different to a foetus if you don’t agree you haven’t been to school and if you have go back
isabella is the perfect example of believing that if it doesn’t affect her it doesn’t exist.
Nope plenty of people live without this nonsense. As they should. We should all be more like Isabella.
She’s so ignorant it was infuriating. She lives in a very thick bubble
@@Alan_the_Red guys are always trying to stick their nose in women’s business . Bye
Shes the only woman I respected during the whole conversation
When she said "I don't even think that I'm not being represented even in ads, I don't care" that's when I knew she had 0 regard for other people's feelings and views. And there's no way you can convince someone so inherently selfish otherwise.
This didnt give what the "male feminists vs. male antifeminist" gave, this just made me sad. Seeing women actively fighting against feminism is so much more counterproductive to the movement, than men actively fighting against feminism.
why?
From Nigeria but you don't believe in the patriarchy? That's CRAZY.
Seriously, she needs a lot of therapy. Sounds like she just want to distance herself from whatever identity her mother held
Same country with the rise of fgm, forced marriages... 😭
She was a lawyer and a ceo of her own company and your talking about patriarchy 😂
Trans women aren’t real women
Define patriarchy
Isabella is a clear example of the "it doesn't exists because it hasn't happened to me" mentality.
exactly
Just like when feminists try to prove "oppression" by "well, it once happened to me that ...."
EXACTLY, her privilege is so unsettling to see
that's just a classic example of internally referenced person vs externally referenced person.
I can't, she exudes privilege with every word she speaks
I've never felt the producers feel as uncomfortable as they were in this episode.
Fr
100%
you’re only saying that cuz your trans. lol they probably loved this.
they were probably more irritated than uncomfortable
yeah, i've never heard them have to tell a person to let the other one speak
Isabella: white women privilege, if I don’t experience it, it doesn’t exist
Nike: mommy issues
Arielle: just wants beef
Jill: white women privilege pt 2
Trans women aren’t real women
The feminists: daddy issues, deep rooted hatred towards men
"you can't be connected and sexually attracted to someone's brain" guess that erases my existence then lmaoo
Yes! as a woman that is pan I was like????? I dont care What someones gender is, i dont care if they are cis or trans, i like the person, literally their personality so u could say their brain
so glad someone said this. i was literally sitting here thinking “someone needs to explain pan and asexuality to this woman”
Literally same. I'm not attracted to bodies, I'm attracted to the souls inside them. I'm 10000% more likely to get turned on by someone showing deep intellectualism from a deep conversation, than looking at someone.
@@ada1312so you are attracted to the person. Their appearance, character, personality. You are bisexual. You are not attracted to a brain. You don’t see a 🧠 and be like look at that juicy ouchy pinky brain
literally i think she’s lost on the difference between sex and gender r
It's incredible how everything and nothing was said at the same time.
😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
My thoughts exactly 😂😂😂
I don't think these types of videos are meant to reach a conclusion or any mutual agreement lol,
Everyone is just stating their opinion and moving on.
My thought to a T.
@@justina2320 It doesn’t really matter much if they agree with each other in the end, it’s the bit where everything was “what if’s” and no facts, crappy debate
Arielle wasn't there to debate she was there to talk AT people. She sat down, instantly asked a question that was nonsensical to the discussion at hand and then proceeded to interupt everyone every chance she got.
Literally!!!
She must have a hard time dealing with snowflakes.
💯💯💯I literally am 2 minutes in and I ran to the comments because she already aggravated me!!! She IMMEDIATELY came in aggressive for no reason! Tryna argue not debate. Smh
@@DaniDeFazio-jf5fzEXACTLY
2020 called they want their slang back . goofy ah@@boobare5792
“we heard a lot about your mom, but what about you?” GAGGED 😂😂😂
I AM A WOMAN
not enough people are talking about how incredibly well spoken Deja is
I'm an Iranian woman. Contrary to Arielle's opinion, feminists did stand up for us! Iraninan feminists! Feminism is not limited to american/western people
Western feminists and western women generally, have spent 40 years silencing all support for Iranian women fighting religious oppression (under the false "Islamophobia). Only since last year, when men also became victims, did western women stand up.
And I'm not talking about pockets of support, such as among atheists, I'm talking about generalised support, like 1000s in the streets of Toronto. We can thank men for dying, because when it's only women dying, the world just don't care.
Yes!! I'm also an Iranian woman and was taken aback by that comment
They did so by cutting their hair for photo ops. Lol anyway that was embarrassing af
Exactly! As an Iranian girl living in Iran, I also have to add that since 1980, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government! On top of that, they receive financial assistance being provided by the government for the sex reassignment surgery. The government also covers the cost of birth certificate and any other certificate change. I wish people like Arielle will learn to at least do a simple search before running their ignorant mouth.
You bit
Every child deserves a parent but not every parent deserves a child, remember that.
yea, 100%, I often feel sad for the children (of future children) of some people I know
What a great saying
This should be apart of the foster care systems values
You become a parent the moment you conceive a child in your womb
We all remember because this saying is everywhere on youtube it’s annoying. On every video where a child is harmed / let down by the parents the top comment is always this exact quote.
"im a mother of 12 years I know all the hardships of motherhood" hasnt even had to deal with a teenage kid yet
just because the child isnt fully grown, doesnt AT ALL mean she doesn't know the hardships of being a mother and the future hardships ahead of her. are you a mother?
Trans women aren’t real women
Does that make her a lier?
The white woman who said she doesn't care about representation. 🤦🏻♀️ 🤢
Trans women aren’t real women
As a teen girl this was horrible to witness.
How horrible, I'm so sad you have to be a female. It must be so awful. lmao
as a teen girl, this was helpful and it helped me learn a lot more that my parents and school thought me
@@andjelamisic3070 What exactly did it teach you?
A discussion?
@@HughMungousPC It taught me a lot, actually, I wanna call myself a feminist and it helps educate me on certain topics like the inherently racist one... i live in a very sheltered home, and i didn't realize some of these thing
It’s so weird how the anti-feminists are mentioning that you can’t be feminist and be a housewife at the same time 😭
Well 90% of feminism is about empowering women to not need men. So most of the ideology goes directly against being a great housewife. Not rocket science
Why is it weird? I mean the average feminist would recoil at the thought of being a housewife. I believe feminism gives women the choice to do either but in modern practice that’s not how it seems to shake out.
@@TheDeeman25 i do know a lot of feminists who like the idea
@@TheDeeman25 nah, the average true feminist would wanna let women do what they choose, even if they choose to be a stay at home mother or housewife
@@katmoonshine145 I doubt you say the truth on that.
"you could go back over there if you really wanted to" the look she gave her
Arielle just wanted to fight she wasn't there for a real conversation based on literally the first words out of her mouth and immediately trying to cut off their answer, absolutely not constructive and lost her points entirely because of it.
I’d love to see male feminist VS female anti feminist
they already did this, it’s on their page
@@rubyfransen2522
No they didn't. The one they did was males on both sides.
But that’s a bit silly, the female anti feminist will just use the same “argument” over and over again; “you’re not a woman, I am”
@@chittaphonlee10noperfect summation
@@chittaphonlee10no No. That is what radical feminists use
I refused to believe that Isabelle wasn’t put there as a satire character to push the viewers and the feminist.
Nah, she was put there to infuriate these ignorant feminists with her sound logic and collected mind.
@@virtualwarp just say you want attention & leave
@@Hotfckngirly
I don't need to leave, and guess what, I'm not going to, and neither are the countless of people who believe the same, including Isabelle.
@@virtualwarp
"I don't need to leave, and guess what, I'm not going to, and neither are the countless of people who believe the same, including Isabelle." 🤓☝
Huh? She spoke only facts
The way I went HUH for 99 % of what the “antifeminists” said like it’s actually INSANE
“Tell me ur 14, without telling me ur 14”
@@Zyrocktell me you’re a Republican, without telling me you’re a Republican
Arielle was so combative and defensive during this whole debate when she didn't even have to be... like chill. I even agreed with some of her points but she overshadowed all that with her tone
I honestly don’t think they will ever be any middle ground in feminism and anti-feminism
I think there could be if reasonable people were invited, but that doesn't generate content and drama.
Look at all the Isabelle comments. She was only invited by production so we can rage in the comments.
Radical feminists who detest the devolution of modern feminism would beg to differ
What is middle ground? Majority of people in USA and Europe believe in equal rights. Feminism has changed significantly in the past 50 years
Feminists aren’t very smart same with black movement it’s the same thing it separates us more than brings people together it segregates and excludes people
Impossible to find middle ground when the topic is based in delusion
I love how they kept accidentally circling back to the wrong topic every single time. I didn’t even know what was happening half the time.
The anti feminists somehow made every single prompt about trans women
@@meg-od2bo because we can’t even begin to talk about woman’s issues if we can’t first define what a woman is. Bottom line.
@@pricesymonej a woman’s an adult female
@@meg-od2bo I agree
@@meg-od2bo why yes, yes it is!
isabella throughout this WHOLE episode was very much “if i don’t see it and if it doesn’t negatively effect my life it’s not happening. it’s not a big deal” vibes and that was WILD especially coming from teen parents
i find it kinda interesting how arielle looked towards her own group and the other group when she would step forward or not step forward for certain questions
jubilee was FOUL for cutting off that amazing point; "if they don't have enough money to go get an abortion, what makes you think they'll have enough money to raise the kid." or smthg like that. that is an excellent point that i want answered by the other side.
Then don’t be having sex. You run the risk
@@americasass3674 thats not exactly an option if someone is forced to...
@@bingusdingus8239 The vast majority of cases aren’t due to rape
@@EdmundoAyarzagoitia well it doesn't really matter because those people are out of luck in certain states now
@@americasass3674 wow i wish that’s what the women who are r/ped against their will though of, thanks!
"You know, they (straight white males) don't want to leave their apartment or their house because they're so afraid of women." BFFR 💀
@@silentsolitude6570cry me a river
I'm white and i'm not scared of humans :) i'm scared of rats.
@Silent Solitude
Why?
@@hannahpoole6215 How empathetic and tolerant of you.
But there genuinely are you’ll go on about Isabella being ignorant but that is also just ignorance
I'm glad that Jill loves motherhood, but it's frustrating to see her and other people insinuate that because they're having an overall great experience, other people's voices are null and void.
I love Deja. She is just so fascinating to listen to. Definitely the highlight of the whole video.
“Men stay in their apartments because they are scared of women.”
I
am
LOST FOR WORDS
Ikr😭😭 I wish that was true 🤞🤞
Pretty much why I built my home gym
@@james3876 😂 especially with all those 'ew...omg why are you looking at my butt cheeks hanging out the bottom of my gym shorts(aka hotpants) you pervert!' catch-a-creep videos.
@Audrey Outland
Terrible mistake on the contrary women and men complement each other and should not hate and divide and even less be afraid of each other. If so, it's called the fall of a civilization.
Men suffer from the patriarchy, but not the same way women do
The model-esque white woman saying how she doesn’t care about being represented after another woman just complained about not seeing diverse women in ads was gold. 😂
Exactly! So clueless
Literally! Like she is not the one being underrepresented of course she wouldn't care 🤣
@@phoebescott6787 🤣🤣 There’s way more then enough diversity in ads.
@@phoebescott6787 anyone with real life problems wouldn't care. caring about such silly things screams first world problems.
yall probably look like Shrek with this mindset
I will never understand when people say if you had sex and you got pregnant you shouldn’t have an abortion because it’s your choice to have sex (31:36). It gives off the same energy as someone being in a car crash and someone else saying “it was your choice to get in the car”. Not everyone has sex in hopes of getting pregnant.
Two completely things. You've made no argument.
Also, sex involve two person, pregnancy involve one. Sex can be safe, while ppl often underestimate the side of pregnancies for all different women
That’s a completely different situation and if you have sex you know the consequences of it.
@@VanessaBrown-de3bx the way i see it is that you know the potential consequences of getting in a car is being involved in an accident. im also not talking about just having sex, i mean when people are trying to avoid getting pregnant and they use contraceptives. there’s still a chance of pregnancy even if that’s not the goal, just like theres a chance of being in a car accident even if that’s not the goal. i just wanted to clarify how i see it, but i’d love to hear your perspective on it if you are willing to share :)
I think the argument is that you shouldn’t end a life that was consensually conceived.
this came out as feminists vs. those who don't understand feminism. we've been fighting for equal rights for so longgg and so much that hearing these anti feminists is not just hurtful but exhausting.
Literally!!!!
It’s like the anti feminists say you live in the USA what “possible rights” are you missing besides common sense
damn this episode was insane seeing how much the host had to moderate the conversation
Didn’t even let the conversation have a basis. How are you supposed to talk about women and feminism when nobody knows what a woman is?
@@wyattcole5452 One of the first things Arielle asked was to define woman
@@Bocqurant and nobody answered is my point, the mediator said focus on the topic when the topic isn’t secure to everyone, so how can they stay in topic when the definition of woman is up in the air?
@@wyattcole5452 she did not let people speak lol
@@yashicasaun the moderator? Yea, when that question was asked she didn’t let People speak unless it was about what she said
“Feminism is anything you want it to be” 22:33. This is the problem. People are fighting over a term that means something completely different to each individual.
Exactly, it has become an empty word, an excuse to avoid accountability and consequences
agreed
I believe the reason why this statement is so broad is mostly because feminism's definition is broad in itself. Feminism is the concept that men and women should be equal. At first, the fight was mostly about rights, but as our society evolved, it has become a fight for equal opportunities (especially career, society and safety opportunities) and lately we did devolve in human rights with roe v wade, so it's important to keep feminism alive and keep evolving, not devolving.
Absolutely. I find that a lot of disagreements come from differences in definitions. If you are going to have a serious conversation about a certain topic, you have to define the terms related to that topic, otherwise you can just go in circles all day.
I agree. A lot of the arguments were about things that most people fundamentally agree on, just with a lack of understanding. But generally, there are two ways I see it defined; an equality movement focused on correcting inequalities for women, and ideas generally held by people who are feminists. I believe the feminists viewed the word more as the former definition and the anti-feminists viewed the word as the latter.
‘It’s a choice to be a housewife’ you can be that while being a *FEMINIST* too?!
I just love that when someone is starting to get a point across and starting to make sense they are ever so quickly to change the subject
I honestly feel like Arielle and Isabella made this discussion so hostile when it didn't have to be.
They did…like they really felt the need to say how everything and everyone was wrong like they did NOT come here for “middle ground”
Arielle was speaking the most facts, though
It was needed.
@@avamacky2793I'm with you on they're tactics being overly aggressive, but to say that had no factual arguments, I mean come on bruh lol. It's OK to be wrong sometimes we can all learn from eachother, even progressives can calm it down a little lol
@@nasien ur a male. Sit this one out. Ur opinion isnt valid
The moment the one lady goes "define a woman" and then interrupts the person trying to respond I knew I wasn't gonna be able to sit through this. What a backwards way to discuss/debate 😭
Literally it had nothing to do w the prompt, she fully came on this js to be transphobic
Arielle's position of "I'm a lesbian and I have a trans friend" to get away with her transphobic comments is so disgusting
One of my biggest pet peeves is getting interrupted and not being able to finish what I was saying. I would have lost it in every one of them.
😂🤣
yes!! it's extremely disrespectful and if I was there they would've been yelled at because you need to let me FINISH my point before starting yours. You'd think adults could have healthy discourse but no, everytime there's confrontation and disagreements certain people become gradeschool kids again
YES!
@@monikamalinowski true
Agreed!!! 💯
Isabella is so blinded by her own experience that she refuses to sympathize with people who actually face issues due to their identity
Shes proving a point and i think she knows how to get into ur head and take advantage.
This comment needs to elaborate more on what it's trying to say.
She don't have to. The problem is the expectation to do so.
Nobody is obligated to fit the mold of expectations set by others 😪
she thinks everybody was always equal and just want to fight. because yeah i always saw people as people not their race or gender or etc. but not everyone had been especially men in power hundreds of years ago. they saw anyone different from them and hurt them (all wars and genocides) and those people have been put down for years. so thats why we fight so everyone can be seen as equal its what we want. ignoring all that past abuse and dehumanizing events is ignorant.
That happened on the other side as well--especially when Jill was speaking about how she felt when pregnant.
arielle using each prompt as an opportunity to be transphobic is absolutely appalling she just. kept. doing. it.
Honestly she was just a W
men cannot become women just be saying they are.
@@sisuluca13W for weirdo. An obsessed weirdo who has so much hatred in her heart that she needs to bring up her distain for a group of people who has done nothing wrong but just exist and advocating for their basic rights into every conversation.
@@sisuluca13 wtf dif trans people do to you?
@@AstroMaja22Lie to others about who they REALLY are, pretending they're something they're not just because they feel lust over Love. Choosing they're opinion over Truth.. conditioning children to choose feelings over logic, opinions over facts.
Staining the image of what a real WOMAN is and causing psychological damage to themselves and others around them.
Use their feelings to get their way... now causing Heterosexuals to lose privileges of adoption and other freedoms simply because it doesn't support their agenda.
🙂🙃🙂
As someone who lived in the Middle East, Central Asia and Southeast Asia, I can say that the American feminists are sooo privileged and if they think they are genuine in their agenda they need to step up to help the women who are really struggling in less privileged places instead of fighting who should be able to show their chests.
This needs to be seen, American women are so privileged and try to act like they’re oppressed. They have no idea what other females in different countries deal with. It’s so sad
ikr. its utter insanity that we place so much emphasis on american feminism when there are so many other parts of the world where its still like the middle ages for women. why isnt it talked about enough?
@@strawberryshortcake5505it is. The men's video of feminist vs anti centred around dating while by women was based heavily on personal experiences. I truly felt like I wasted my time trying to understand their mind process because I can't, they live in a bubble of so-called problems and some people from both the groups sounded pretty indoctrined to me.
It is normal that people primarily care about what they are closest to and most familiar with.
Plus, the fact that it's not like Afghanistan doesn't mean there isn't still work to be done.
@@strawberryshortcake5505maybe because they are feminists living in America. They can’t and shouldn’t speak on issues they dont know about. It’s not fair to gaslight or dismiss people’s experiences because of the country they live in
12:12 she did not just quote Marilyn Monroe on the patriarchy💀she was abused so much by men
yeah
Like BFFR😤😤
Poor Marilyn, she can never get a break.
Patriarchy only includes men ?
To tell you patriarchy doesn't exist
Arielle is a type of person to debate people who’s on her side
😂😂😂😭
Arielle just came outta nowhere packin balls to the walls
and there's nothing wrong with that :D
I like Arielle, even though I disagree with her on a lot, but I think she came in obsessed with wanting to fight about trans issues and assume that any liberal has forgotten what a biological woman is
@@AverageGamerNub-qf6spmy jaw dropped when she started talking
i think "non feminists" forget that feminists don't hate men, we really don't hate them we just wanna be recognized as being just as enough as them. if you want to be a house wife and a mother that should never ever stop you from being a feminist, degrading yourself down to say that is what is stopping you is ALMOST like saying (in my opinion) you don't even want a say in what happens in your house hold, that you just want to give up your say in anything happening around you. its sad to see other women give up their own choices because they just "don't care". you dont have to agree with every single thing down to the T.
Saying being a housewife/ mother is degrading to women is disgusting.
Also, you see it everywhere with the current feminist movement “men suck”, “we’re don’t need men”, “I hate men”… especially hatred towards whites men
Isabella was insufferable.
As an Iranian girl, what Arielle said wasn't true. Iranian men and women are standing for equality. But the dictatorial government is the issue
I interpeted her comment in a way like what are western feminists doing for Iranian fight for equality, but I may be wrong..
Either way, I really hope Iranian people win the fight and get their freedom back! Much love from Croatia!
She was talking about western feminist not supporting Iran.Although I'd still disagree with her because I did see a lot of western support unlike the case with french muslim women.
Correct.
@@LuciKaede They’re speaking up, talking about it, bringing light to the issues, and identifying the women who are actively fighting and have died doing so. What more can western women do? Physically go to Iran and beat up the government?
Feminists IN AMERICA don’t care
As a middle eastern woman, Arielle bringing up the Iran issue made my soul shrivel. No feminists are speaking up about the issue in Iran? Does she think the Irani women there actively fighting against their government are anti feminist? The phrase Zan, Zendegi, Azadi literally translates to "women, life, freedom" and she claims its not a feminist issue?
IK Airelle got on time nerves every time she spoke especially with that Iran issue
@@andsoitbegins_there’s many trans women you would never assume are transgender. If they’re going through the word looking like women they’ll be treated like women. Do you think people only discriminate against women at birth???
Nobody cares
Arielle is a hard pill to swallow but I think that the point is valid in the sense that many feminists in places like the States don't care about issues facing women in places like Iran that are definitely more hostile toward them. There are certainly feminists in Iran taking care of business.
Deflect deflect deflect that's all they do when it comes to racism.
I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's true, in certain situations where males are involved. your safety is hugely dependent on whether they like you or not (and it doesnt even have to be romatically)
In this episode, Deja was the Kevin of the situation. I've really aprreciated kevin being so calm in the last ep, and I di the same here with Deja.
when riki said “i shouldn’t have to tell you that story for you to understand that there are certain things that you have not experienced that oppress other people”🔥
"Patriarchy" as an oppressive and misogynistic system is a pure creation of late-sixties radical feminism. It does not exist as such and it is contradicted by evolutionary biology, history and anthropology, as long as one bases oneself on factual data and not on the deconstructivist ideology of gender studies. "Oppressive patriarchy" is a mystification that the following articles each explore in their own way.
It must be said and said again: the victim paradigm according to which the history of male/female relations is part of a vertical relationship of "male domination" is an intellectual imposture and an ideological construction resulting from the radical feminism of the end of the 1990s. sixties. Prior to the 1960s, the concept of "patriarchy" did not exist.
Than by that logic they can’t speak up for poor women who get pregnant
@@EdgarHernandez-uu4iw what logic is that exactly…
Brainwashed by feminism lmao you pro feminists are so wrong. 😂
@@EdgarHernandez-uu4iwwhat….
I'd love to see this conversation outside of America
As a German I’m on the Anti-Feminist side. The Feminist side is too obsessed with race.
living in spain, i think this conversation would be harder to have just because i think i've met ONE woman here who's an antifeminist and only because she's a conspiracy theorist that thinks, for example, that my brother is autistic because he had vaccines
I'd love to see a discussion between male feminists and female antifeminists. One hour of women telling men how men feel and men "defending" women. Pure entertainment for sure
@@matuuscx Most people in general wouldn’t describe themselves as feminists even if they believe men and women are equal
Or have feminists from other countries to see the differences between their culture
18:42 I applaud the camera person and director. Powerful choice of photography.
deja speaks and articulates her thoughts really well
As a European, the statement that America is the ONLY place on Earth where you can work and achieve based on your merit is so funny to me. This sentence alone is the kind of arrogance Jill and Isabella are executing during the whole video
I hate this argument so much. I'm child of immigrants that came to America and who recognized the benefits of living in the US. But I also have family who moved to Canada and the UK who are equally successful. I know of many people who moved from the US to different countries in Africa and Asia and are also successful. Like the US has its moments but it also has a lot of shitty issues that impede success.
@@Faith12996 I think what she should have said was 1st world countries in general which ironically are the only countries where feminism is super strong
Agree
My thoughts exactly tell that to all the homeless people or kids living and growing up in poverty.
I think she meant that everyone has the ability to succeed when they come to America or if they’re in America. But idk lol. I’m an immigrant to the US and I’ve worked hard to get where I am and I think that’s kinda of what she meant 😅
Nike is simply calling her childhood trauma "feminism" and hating on it. It's not "feminism's" fault for her not being able to have a relationship, it's just more convenient than blaming her parents.
Exactly, take accountability for your actions. She's blaming feminism for her downfalls in life
LoL, it's like blaming men and "the patriarchy" for all your problems 😂
To be fair, the feminists call their trauma Patriarchy
She is stuck with her mom's life trauma of wanting to be a feminist while having a huge cultural and generational dissonance about those issues. She tried.
Yup
I could listen to Deja and Riki talk for hours
love the embrace at the end after 50 minutes of heated, yet civil debate
that girl really just interrupted their conversation on race to basically say “I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me so let’s stop talking about it”
In Europe and USA we almost all have the same rights. Industrialists, royal families, politicians are the most privileged.
Feminism and wokism are societal political games to divide the people.
I am black and I don't care. Identity politics is toxic.
@blafgirl it doesn't matter until it does.
i think we would be in a better society if we would stop to assume stuff about people just based on their skin colour. So if you enter a room and you feel uncomfortable just because the people in that room have a different skin colour...maybe that is kind of the problem. It does make sense to be most comfortable if we see persons similar to us in the room and i think we won't ever fully get rid of that. But we should try and stop putting all kind of assumptions onto it. So let's try and work on equal conditions but don't put people into skin colour boxes.
@@starryk79 I hear and respect that. But it's deeper than just skin color. For my grandmother and mother and myself. It's not the color, it's what the color has represented. There is apprehension that is justified and I think until we understand the " why's" and come to terms with these things without being dismissive or treating people experiences as trivial, this will continue.
Feminism, in my opinion, doesn’t mean you have to be a CEO or you shouldn’t be a stay at home mom. It means you should have the option to be either or. Discussions like this are important to have to better understand others’ mindsets. Great episode👍🏽
you do have that option. and have had it for over 20 years now.
@@barbrothers2 I know that but obviously some of the women in the video thought otherwise. And is not just that. What about abortion? Why don’t people just mind their business and focus on themselves?
Ideally, but that’s not always the narrative. [>
But that is NOT what feminists say. And FEMINISTS DO talk down to women without traditional “burn the candle at both ends” jobs
@@russ7009 Are you saying we should aim for equity rather than equality?
the best one so far... this episode was such an eye opener. thank you
I love the way Deja talks, she’s so well spoken.
„youre just traumatized enough for me to understand that maybe things are hard“ describes modern society perfectly in one sentence
Trauma? What trauma? Too many people say they are traumatized because of an event that they weren't even a part of. What the what?
@@ninjawizard3865 Rape is traumatising wth is wrong with you
@@evangelinelee5238 where did I say anything about rape?
Not really, it describes ancient history much better and describes modern society the least of all other times, the sentence that perfectly summarizes modern society is "I'm at the top of the victim hierarchy so I deserve the most while putting the least effort into better myself out of all groups of people".
@@SourceChan that sounds more accurate.
Why do Americans think that it’s “the only place ON EARTH” where you can achieve your goals ?!?? Seriously that statement made me think Jill was delusional
Seriously. Exactly what the US teaches Americans. It’s so bizarre.
the delusion of American exceptionalism.
I was surprised that this sentence wasn’t challenged by anyone because it’s so ignorant and problematic on so many levels.
30:10
She was they use it to not accept that we deserve better conditions that allow people to thrive and it’s all on you which fine but it’s egotistical and not the best for humanity ❤😂
"feminism is what you make it" is the best way to completely dismantle your own argument by literally stating everything you say is subject to change at any moment and you don't really believe in it
It's funny watching the trans women section as one myself, The fact my existence as a human being is getting debated by people who have not experienced what I have is just hilarious.
😅
As someone who is also a Transwomen I feel you on that. When people who talk about our experiences when they haven't experienced it is kind of hilarious in a way.
Tbh I feel bad for Nike because it seems like her antifeminism stems from interpersonal conflict with her mother
WTF saying that by seeing her talk for 10 min is disrespectful
@@spaceboj9198 are you Nikè?
@@nessawithsmiles no
that's literally, what i was staying every time she made her points i feel so bad for her fr 😭
@@spaceboj9198 she literally brought up her mom with every topic until they told her to focus on herself and not her mom
"we heard a lot about ur mom, but what about u?" QUEEN SPITS FIRE. and how i love how deja articulate her point!!!
i laughed at loud during this
Timestamp?
@@VaaleeLol 38:10
Really sums up what women indebted in patriarchy seems like 😭
Great conversations , felt like I wanted to be part of the convo too 😊😊
The prompt "there is no wrong reason to get an abortion" is very interesting because, coming from India, female foeticide is a huge problem. Sex selective abortions are a thing. And I'm surprised they aren't addressing that.
"we heard a lot about your mom lets hear about you" I WAS LIKE FINALLY
We would like to hear about their arguments (those who said "we heard a lot about your mom") too those who are using emotion instead of arguments.
But it's clear feminists rarely has rhetoric and arguments. They can't never debate with women such Cathy Young, Ekomania, Candace Owen. Whatever we like them or not but in term of debate nope the feminists can't debate with those women.
And her point was….?
@@yadig876 Mommy issues
Her whole identity was centred around rebelling against her mom so her mom's a feminist and guess what that makes her - anti feminist.
😂🎉im rollin
Nike didn't really come off as strongly settled in her opinions. I honestly got the feeling from almost every single prompt that she was hit hard by her mother's illness whom she idolized but also resented for staying with her father.
she defended incels at one point
@@CoochSmooch incels share a hatred towards (progressive) woman... theyre entitled sexist loosers... if theyre fundamentally broken then its bc theyre miserable ppl...
Nike used to be a feminist remember? That’s probably why she wasn’t so unwilling to be wrong and open to the other side.
she was projecting
i agree. i felt a bit bad for her. it seems like her negative experiences w her family are getting to her esp now that she’s at an age where she wants a family of her own. i wish her luck
I love Deja, I feel like she was incredible well spoken and respectful
thank you Deja 🙂
“We heard a lot about your mom. What about you?” OMG I appreciated that so much!
Girl she ate her azz up
FRR
RUE? WHEN WAS THIS?
nah fr can you give me a time stamp? I think I missed it
@@nathaliechiles6981 39:09
That's mean.
The whole "Ive never felt it, so its not valid" mindset that Isabella has is very close minded
I've never felt privilege yet get told I have it because of the color of my skin. Ironically I'm the racist apparently but others look at me and judge me because of the color of my skin
I was SO DONE with her! She was so disrespectful and passive aggressive. Doesn’t know how to have a discussion why did Jubilee have her. Idc what you think, the way she interrupted others and was sassy about everything told to her was like nope, don’t belong here. You had ONE JOB, talk and listen. Not spat at everyone
She never said that. But feminists thinking they know what’s best for everyone is the true close mind
@@Hamoniony Your name is Isabella too! Are you the Isabella?????????
She was the reasonable one
I love AJ and Deja, they are so well spoken!
arielle is insufferable omg im not even 3 mins in
"I have never even felt unequal! So I don't even know what the problem is!"💀
She is so in her own privileged world it's sickening
well yeah most people make themselves out to be a victim they don't see what is really going on
@@SmokeyDaBoss420or you mean there’s ppl that don’t go through these life experiences so they’re blind to it.
@@naomimosby5575 i agree, its atrocious that only men have to sign up for the draft. Women can fight too!
@@razikboston3414 frfr
"We've heard a lot about your mom, but what about you" had me crying !!
Yeah looks like she's dealing with a mother wound and is taking it out on the movement because she sees it as the vice that took her mom away
@@lunareclipse6359 you’ve explained it really well
@@lunareclipse6359 yes exactly
@@theelolicious9302 Y'all are insane lol. RUclips therapists everywhere in the comment sections. It's insane how the world has turned out.
@@tatsunithelennyking2540 Everyone can see it duhhhh people are not playing therapists it is very evident
What was the white lady in the red shirt on 😭😭 she kept yapping and it would go nowhere lol
26:41 gotta be out of a comedy sketch, this scene made me burst out laughing😂