Mike is the only person I've seen talk about his blown engine with a smile. If I ever get some sort of terminal disease or cancer, I would like Mike to break the news to me. And if at all possible, read me a bed time story about bearing tolerances.
He learnt alot about the effects of e85 in a limited use street engine so that helps not much to smile about when your engine blows and you learn nothing 😂
It's because he got to prove people (I'm sure he is frustrated by) wrong. This is a pretty big discovery for another reason, for two he caught it before major damage could be done and is able to fix it. He was able to prove E85 just shouldn't be daily-ed.
Been running E85 in a 4G63 for 12 years plus. I cycle between periods of 91 & E85. The reason for the high carbon deposits on a E85 motor is that E85 is lacking, in percentage, the PIB cleaning solution found in regular high octane gas (PIB = Polyisobutylene). Injector gunk is very common on E85 run motors due to the low percentage of PIB. Learned this from a petroleum engineer.
@@konic40 Fairly likely, as Isomers (branched molecules) usually have greater inherent detonation resistance, the more branched the higher resistance (typically). Pure 2,2,4 Trimethyl Pentane (Iso-octane) is RON and MON 100 per definition, and why a straight chain alkanes like pure (n)-Heptane is RON and MON 0 per definition. Infact, pure straight chained Octane (n-Octane) has a rating of -20 RON and -17 MON.
@@jda8176 I run a 1/4 tank 92 and 3/4 tank e85 with marvel mystery oil in the gas and in the oil before and after oil changes. And I use royal purple 0w 20. It always comes out looking golden still at 5k.
I am a lifetime race engine builder for 45+ years. What this man is saying is all true. I see a lot of cylinder wall wash etc. E- fuels are great for HP. But like everything good comes with a price to be paid. GREAT VIDEO !!!
There's a genuine and honest lifetime race engine builder named Andy Randolph (NASCAR and formerly General Motors) who would say you don't know what you're talking about. Here's an interview I did with Andy a few years ago: ruclips.net/video/xLztoTpsk5I/видео.html
In formula 1, grand prix, 24 hour lemans, etc. they all use straight methanol. When they tear down the engine after a race, you cannot even tell it did a lap.
My uncle bought a 96 dodge Dakota brand new. Changed his oil religiously every 3k miles. He only drove a few miles to work and home every day. I took his valve covers off after around 100k and his engine was pretty sludged up! He was very surprised but I explained to him that the short trips don’t evaporate the moisture out of his oil and that causes buildup. I think that truck is still running but definitely had some sludge issues. Short trip driving is the worst no matter what fuel you use!
@@antd2733 I’d say change your oil once every 6 months, and use some type of engine cleaning procedure once a year, something that’s legit and proven not to harm internal parts
Idiling prolongs cold start - don't do it. Drive gently immediately after start for fastest warm up. Change oil every 2k-3k mi/ 2-3 mos depending on how much short tripping. I use Seafoam in the crankcase before each oil change.
We typically drain the oil and fuel after a race. Fuel goes in a steel barrel and we swap gasoline back in and the oil goes into a modified water heater. It cooks the oil for 4hrs at 240f before shut off. Then ready for next race day. Obviously not much in common with street cars. A dual fuel system based on temperature would probably work best
Had a flex fuel vehicle and I always put 91 in after 2nd to 4th tank and changed the oil at 2,500 miles. I didn't do alot of short trips with but kept on top of the issues discussed.
Thanks for this video! That's horrible and is an E85 nightmare. My E85 rules: - Don't let it sit for long periods. - Do oil more frequent oil changes. - Don't do lots of short journeys, cold starts will also contaminate the oil way faster. - Do longer trips to let oil come up to temperature and evaporate any water contamination. - Use flex sensor if possible and run some 93/98 petrol through from time to time. - Use a decent Ethanol stabilizer/additive to help protect against corrosion.
@@Eduardo_Espinoza Ethanol content analyser/sensor. Runs inline with the fuel rail befor the injectors so the ECU can measure the content of ethanol and update the ECU in real time. This means you can run any blend of petrol and/or ethanol at any given time.
@Richard Smith yep You should run your vehicle after changing fuels long enough for that sensor ecm can adjust properly. Marvel mystery oil also helps if you don't run unladed
Awesome and hard lesson learned. Very informative to see the engine internals and diagnosis what happened. I love having E85/Flex Fuel in my turbocharged S2K but will be more careful and aware after seeing this video. Thanks for everything, guys!
I have a 2013 impala, I rarely run E85 in it, but I do drive city all the time, so it’s definitely going to cause more frequent oil changes. I was happy to see on my most recent oil change, my oil life meter was at 0% with 1800 miles left to go according to the oil change sticker which was set at 5000 miles. I run mobile one synthetic 5W30 but I always change mine at around 3000 miles due to my frequent short trips around town. Normally my oil life monitoring system seems to run me to about 5K before indicating a need for an oil change. This time it was around 3K at 0% life left. I guess the oil life monitoring systems are coming along because when these first came out, it would run people to 10k at times or more before indicating the need to change the oil. Thank you for this amazing video, and for sharing your knowledge with the world!
For my Evo, I only use E85 during track days and go straight back to 98 after that, otherwise it fouls spark plugs, injectors and even rusts the exhaust. The condensation issue with E85 can't really be fixed unless you use it up regularly and drive decent distances weekly, it needs heat to boil away the condensation. C16 race fuel is the best I've used - clean and zero detonation, but E85 is much cheaper.
Wow, the deposits on the pistons were surprising and the oil ring even more so! This is very valuable information living in the midwest with cheap and plentiful flex fuel options, thanks!
We run E100 here in Brazil. Ethanol delivers better power due to higher octane rating. But we know it is harsher on the engine, it needs to be ready to deal with ethanol. It is recommended here to run a full gasoline (our gas means E25 actually) tank from time to time to help clean the engine. But tuners just change the engine to be E100 only, running more turbo pressure or, if it is a NA engine, modifying the header to run a higher compression ratio.
I run e98 in the best mountains of the US (colorado) were like 5300 feet elevation. The one time I put "gas" (91 octane) in the car it blew up cuz it ran lean around a corner (shop owner was incompetent but his kids built some great cars.) Didn't have a surge tank like I was told, bobs your uncle. Hasta la vista baby. Sionara sucka.. fun car, 730wheel
My experience with small engine powersports has taught me even regular pump gas containing 10-15% ethanol will cause similar results with nasty oily gunk on pistons from PCV/crankcase evaporation & oil wash. Carbureted applications it's extremely noticeable, especially if you tune a little rich for safety. Not the worst part but more of a PITA is how fuel will evaporate inside the carb and the ethanol won't leaving a gummy residue that'll clog jet needle chambers, choke jets, pilot/slow jets etc.. Few reasons I run Non Ethanol premium in my bikes all the time and cars when I can.
As a full time e85 user for 5 years in all my vehicles i pretty much conclude the opposite. It dissolves carbon deposits, cleans fuel injectors, and alcohol does not magically turn into gunk; its a liquid or a gas. The injectors being clogged is from the alcohol cleaning out your fuel filter and those debris ending up getting stuck in the fuel injectors. The solution is to change and upgrade to a better fuel filter suitable for e85. Ethanol doesnt do any damage at all to the metals in your engine unless youre running your engine rich all the time. I run my engines at 1.1 lambda during normal driving conditions so im getting a similar amount of liquid fuel per air as it'd be getting on gas to avoid washing lubricant off the cylinder walls. If you dont warm up your car to 190°f youre treating your engine like shit whether youre running gas or alcohol. Alcohol is the superior fuel in all ways aside from cold starts and needing to refuel more often.
1) Laminar flame speed of ethanol is FASTER than gasoline. This is why OEM flex fuel calibrations run LESS timing at part throttle with ethanol than gasoline. 2) If you do a ton of cold starts without warming the engine up, you will make sludge regardless of fuel type. Running a colder thermostat makes this worse. The engine NEEDS to get up to normal operating temp and stay there to keep the oil healthy. 3) His assertion that "ethanol does not burn clean" is tied to samples that were run under enrichment more (race engine). Of course you'll have more carbon deposits at lambda=0.8 than at lambda=1.0. 4) "Detonation" (he means knock) from crevice volume of fuel is largely tied to over-fueling. Check the toon. Properly done, E85 is not that bad. He is correct that "short hop driving" is bad, but that goes for any fuel.
Thx for the video and info bro! You’re awesome and I love your videos and content. I’ve learned so much from you I can’t even begin to tell you. It’s crazy we are all still learning now matter how far along we are in a profession , there’s still more to learn. Thank you for what you do bro, forget about the guys with the lame comments, trolls are all over the internet and it’s just something you have to deal with and let go, don’t even waste your time on stupid comments, the majority of us love and appreciate what you do and the content you bring !
Thank you for all the useful and priceless information. I've been a commercial driver for thirty years. The current transportation company I work for, and the two previous companies are in the livery business (Transporting people). All three have a number of flex fuel vehicles that can burn E85 fuel or regular gasoline. At the insistence of the owners and their mechanics, we, the drivers, filled the fuel tanks with 87 octane gasoline exclusively. No problems. I am about to purchase a nice, mint condition, used minivan that has the flex fuel system that can burn either E85 or regular gasoline. I will fill the tank with 87 octane ONLY. Also, the oil and filter will be changed frequently. Thank you very much. I have great respect for your knowledge and how you explain things.
E85 will absolutely do everything said here and more. Including stripping oil from valve stems, drying out valve stem seals and oil leaching into the engine at idle. It happened to me in my F150 5.0L over one winter.
I don’t daily my Evo, it’s primarily a track toy. I have a flex tune so I run approximately E60-E70 to and at the track. I fill with 91 on for the drive home and try to keep only 91 in smaller volumes till next track event - typically 4-6 weeks. In between I drive it for about 20-30 minutes weekly. Been doing this for about 7 years. Changed the pan gasket last year and it was clean. Save the E85 for the track
Excellent! well done. No stupid comment here. Thx for the info. I'm considering E85 in my V6 F-Type (Jaguar) to take the 340hp to around 550. But I can get around 475hp on standard 91 octane fuel. Which is also plenty. Decisions decisions. My car sits mostly during the week and gets around 100 miles on weekends.hhhmmm
Oh ya, I also had a 2004 wrx that I was making 404hp for most of it's life, on E85. I sold that car at 192k on it with still the stock motor. I might be able to blame E85 for the 3 transmissions I blew up. But I sold that car with the stock 2.0 motor. Bought the car brand new in 2004. Started running E at about 60k.
Hey you made me sub cause I like your straight forward results proven honesty! Considering the cost of quality oil for a car makes using E85 more costly and for the average owner whom neglects their car it could cost them big time. And for guys who store their cars more than they drive them they better take heed to your advice.
Absolutely right, even the garage kept cars need a long drive every once in a while to burn off the moisture and liquefy the sludge. Motor flushes at each and every oil change would be a wise practice on these low mile, low use engines. I try to take my cars for a long (1 hour plus) freeway drive before doing the oil change to get everything hot and hopefully drained out of the oil pan. I have used routine motor flushes and Seafoam in the crankcase of badly neglected vehicles to un-stick rings and noisy lifters with great results and improvements.
On my older vehicles I still run conventional oil for this reason. handles moisture better. I did a video about converting my old cars over to 0-w40 synthetic but I dont think they make enough oil temperature to burn off the moisture. My modern cars oil temps go over 220F easy so there is no problems. Im going to monitor my Hondas oil temps this summer and see what I got and go from there.
This is why I have a flex tune for my car. My commute is sometimes short, and I try to at least let the engine run for a while to get rid of moisture. I try not to run e85 all the time because of the need for more frequent oil changes and the build up of moisture. I try to run 93 every 3rd to 4th tank of e85 because from my understanding it eats up the gunk that can form from the e85.
Honestly looks to me like the oil never got hot enough to bake off dissolved fuel in the oil. Small amounts of blowby do deposit some fuel into the oil and tend to acidify it over time, but most of that fuel vaporizes and gets sucked up by the PCV system to be burnt again. And as soon as the gummy ethanol rich oil started to gum up and deposit on the rings, the excess blowby accelerated the contamination of the oil dramatically, causing a feedback loop where it just got worse and worse.
@@fry.master Yes, and it gets worse with the engines that have 1. Narrow low tension oil rings 2. Very little provision in the piston for oil to drain back.
I pulled off 2007 Chevy suburban oil pan to reseal and definitely I can tell after 180k miles the oil pan was 95 percent cleaner than what is shown in this video and the owner is my relative he always uses e85 flex fuel on his suburban
I run e85 about 90 percent of the time on my brz. I haven’t had issues and that’s because I’m very crazy about my maintenance and making sure my car is warmed up. I think that’s what has help me with my car. I do use royal purple as well.
Awesome so helpful, i always try to get my car to full temp even before pulling out of the driveway but this just goes to show how important it is. Thx!
Great information. Your humility is admirable and you have acquired the expertise you have by always being willing to learn something new. One of the best life skills I think.
Here in Zimbabwe, the ethanol in our fuel is made from sugar cane... It's not great at all. I've had inlet valves stuck closed so bad it bends pushrods on startup.. And no carb cleaner will clean it out of the carbs. The only thing I found that takes it off is lacquer thinners and Wynns compression stabalizer/carbon buster. Which is pretty harsh chemicals
I've ran E85 for years on my Evo and STI. Definitely run some regular gas once in a while if you're mostly running ethanol. My current car is built for FlexFuel, but I still run regular pump gas and change the oil often. Great video!!
That makes perfect sense. I bought a car from a guy that was running e85, and now the car has massive rod knock. Haven't taken the engine apart yet to quite see the Damage done to the motor. Thank you for the info and video very helpful.
Another epic video sir! Thanks to the green deal I am planning to get two separate maps to run e85 and 93 for my subie and this video will definitely help me in the future 👍🏾
Without resorting to jerk status and bringing up the 'EJ Disclaimer', short trips are the death nail for pretty much any IC engine. I've been round and round with a lot of Toyota folks with short trips eventually leading to oil burning rings, especially in the low tension era. You pretty much nailed it across the board though. Ethanol isn't exactly and every day wonder fuel outside of specific conditions that everyone wants it to be. And that's just covering how hard it is on the fuel system by itself! I've not seen that kind of build-up in the oil system, but there's a first for everything, right?
I was surprised when he said it got frequent oil changes, I wonder if using a motor flush at every oil change would have kept the internals looking good or if the moisture still would have wrecked it?
@@davidparker9676 Honestly I don't think anything short of pulling the pan would have given an advanced notice that that much sludge was down there. Chemical flushes *might help to a small degree (once you're aware of the problem of course), but without added pressure over what the vehicle's oil pump can supply, you're only going to dislodge what a topical rinse would move. Nature of a hygroscopic beast unfortunately.
@@C-M-E I agree that this would have blindsided me as well. He never mentioned how many miles were on the engine, but he did know to change the oil more frequently due to using E85. I think that going forward, a chemical flush at every or every other oil change would be wise in such a scenario. It seems that the rings get gummed up first and accelerate the rest of the problems.
Always good info coming from this channel for imports and domestics. Not sure why anyone would leave questionable comments with the amount of useful knowledge that's always shared here.
Not sure. What I heard is that E85 would cause this condition if anyone drove in mainly cold start mode driving conditions, never fully allowing their engine to warm up.
ran e85 for 8k mi. straight, short trips, long trips, 3k mi oil changes with motul or Valvoline VR1, zero sludge. and no fuel additive. and no tar on the pistons. and this is a street engine.
Awesome info. I have always been a big proponent of letting an engine come up to full temperature even if just doing shorty trips regardless of what kind of fuel.
Fantastic info! The content of your video here shows many years of experience. Easy to understand and practical information that can be applied to many different situations. Thanks guys 🙂
Been using e85 in 4cyl cars for 10 years now. We live by oil changes often. Most these cars make well above 500whp and oil is changed at longest every 1k miles, most even more often, injectors flowed and checked often, anytime the engine starts the car runs up to temp to burn off moisture. Have never had any issues due to being very fussy with what we do.
I'm curious how many total miles on the engine? I was surprised when you said it had oil changes every 2000 miles, this video was a major eye opener for me. I will pay even closer attention to the oil of my occasionally-driven cars.
"I get in to a situation where I think I know everything but obviously I don't" I never imagined this guy admitting this so easily, since I think he knows everything.
Evo8 ethanol 100% of the time. Oil changes very very frequently. Fic2150s cleaned yearly by fic. Warm up is very important. Ive never seen oil or a pan sludge like that even on my own car thats wild. Ive been using amsoil zrod in mine for like 8 years on the same motor. My oil pan has never looked like that so i wonder if there was some kind of reaction from the oil you used. I havent been in my car for about 6 months and its going into the shop for yearly services il pull my pan and see if i have anything similar. Good info in this video though
@2wheelfamily493 start it and let it idle for 5 minutes or so. Im on an elite 1500 and have literally every sensor available from haltec. Winter time is a different game. I dont really drive my car at all in the winter unless I have to but I just extend my idle time until it's completely warm before going anywhere.
That was some amazing slug. I will note with ethanol being hydroscopic it will pick up more water when it's humid out. I always warm up my e85 cars after it rains or they like to give me hard starts if I don't
Good stuff. I suspect this is one of the reasons Ford recommends running a tank of gasoline at least once per oil change in the flex fuel F-150 5.0 engines. Although this video has me questioning whether that is frequent enough. In my case it's not really a concern because I end up switching fuels more frequently than that just because of variations in cost and availability.
@@justingill5256 I have the Omega tune in my 2017 as well. Very pleased with it. The transmission tuning that's part of it also makes the truck more fun to drive. E85 isn't available everywhere around here, so I switch back and forth a lot just because of what's convenient.
@Jay Slabotsky 3.31 gears 21gt ported mani with cai, getting 49 mph out of 1st gear 87 mph out 2nd. Gen 3 with 3.31 gears gt ported with omega x tune is getting 49 mph out of 1st on a damn 10 speed 😯
good to hear, thanks for your experience! I'm very happy to never run for any less than 15 minutes, but generally nothing less than 30 minutes. My engines are always properly warmed any time they're fired up.
I thank you for the education on E85. I just got a Dodge Grand Caravan GT on flexflue so I needed to know how often to use gasoline. I heard it was a 50/50 mix. Your advice is every third tank. I'm going to do that, I just want better so I don't have issues. Again I appreciate your videos so much. Wiley
You mean the constant, never ending Smile that he has as he talk? Kinda gets annoying because he facial expression just never changes. He’s Happy the entire time. It’s not…. Normal to be this happy and smile constantly. Ugh, drives me crazy. 😖😒😑
Can confirm this with carbon build on a engine that I built and was running E85, the tuner I used at the time (many years back now before I started tuning myself) tuned it with excessively low lambda/AFR with pretty mediocre timing advance for no good reason and didnt tune anything regarding the transient fueling as intended. Basically washing the oil film off the cylinder walls and all that. The piston crowns were completely covered in sticky carbon crud as well as parts of the piston ring land. That engine was filthy inside after just 5000km with two oil changes and a lot of longer drives. A lot can be avoided with proper tuning and stop using excessive AFRs/lambdas except for those short drives which are the worst and always will be bad. Now doing everything myself I havent experienced this type of carbon build anymore.
Wondering if you could do a video on the use of water methanol injection? I've been running a Snow system for a couple of years and I've noticed more catch can liquid, similar to a milkshake, since installing it. Love your content... I always learn something from you. Thanks! 🤘🏁
Great video! Never saw this! Some of the old high compression pre-emissions engines will actually get better MPG on E-85 because you have to pull so much timing out to prevent pinging with modern fuels, especially if you are too poor to buy premium all the time and are depending on one to get to work! You just need to make sure your power enrichment valves or metering rods have a VERY drastic step in them to take advantage of alchohol's wider tuning window to cruise lean. (Use a good lead substitute valve lubricant in the fuel!) I could pick up 3 MPG this way because I could advance the timing without rattling a 10.2:1 Chrysler 413, replacing the 195 thermostats with 160 helped also. I hate late timing that makes an idling engine sound like it's hauling a truck up a hill! The shop manual for that car said to put in the fuel you were going to use, warm up the car and keep advancing the timing until it pinged for 2 seconds in low when floored from a standing start. That was to optimize performance over the conservative factory setting in the weather, fuel, and altitude the car was operating at. Then they showed you pictures of how to read spark plugs to adjust fuel jetting for best performance. 40 years of tuning big gas engines in heavy trucks, and 13 years of drag racing and gas tractor pulling proved them right for me! Many old engines pre-emissions were WAY conservative on timing and fuel just in case some guy went through death valley in the summer with half the radiator and aircleaner plugged, and low-bob's 80 octane gas in the tank, and his foot on the floor because he left something turned on at home, it still wouldn't come apart. But, you can only convince about 1 out of a hundred people to put down the manual on jet sizes and the timing light and POWER tune a 60+ year old vehicle! Especially on new style gas! Now I know about short trip E-85. However, I always drove 50 miles a day, didn't baby them, and blended in more gas in the winter.
That I you for this, it was very informative. The whole time I was thinking why not just let it warm up, it only takes about 10 minutes, and then you finally said it at the end. I think that’s honestly the best advice, you probably don’t need to go on too long of trips if the engine gets up to temp before you drive.
I wanted to comment and say how much I love this video. You always come through with great content! By the way, huge shoutout and thanks for responding to my messages back in November about how I should be rebuilding my EJ205. It's been an incredible 2300 kilometres since then, and my engine is running better than ever, all thanks to your guidance. Keep up the excellent work! 👍🔥
@@baelm In my case all of my pistons were burning oil, it had some piston slap and I eventually (somehow) broke one of the camshafts. These happened probably due to a bad previous engine rebuild. I had a lot of questions in my mind regarding if I should do a forged or a stock rebuild for a daily. As you know, forged engines have piston slap when it's cold as well, and I don't quite like that. I just can't get used to it. Reliability and longevity was what I desired the most and I didn't know which build would be more suitable in this case. Mike advised me to go with a stock rebuild, and that I could upgrade the oil pump to 11mm for a daily. I followed his advice with the stock rebuild, but I got the 12mm oil pump instead. I don't have any issues so far, but I'm genuinely curious about how long this engine will last because I redline it every time I drive it x)
@@Gentleman1337 thanks for sharing what he told you, pretty sure i have piston slap as well but if i had to replace the whole long block i would wand to go for a 207 if possible
Insufficient crackcase ventilation is often a factor here as well. Water and other combustion byproducts degrade the oil. When the oil doesnt get hot enough, it can't evaporate the water. And restrictive breather setups will reduce the evaporation rate even when the oil is up to temp.
The guy is constantly pulling out engines and rebuilding them, its not as massive of an undertaking for him as it is for some of us hobbyists. You can tell hes not hurting for money or equipment to fix it, I’m sure he got it all rebuilt in a pretty short period and its back on the road, and not to mention the content he got out of it, the video probably paid for the engine.
Use motor flush at each oil change. Let the engine idle for about 20 minutes then drain. Been doing this for years, never any issues. Internals stay clean, even after 100k miles.
Add a balanced mix of a PEA solution of your choice IE Chevron Techron/GumOut with your E85 fill up. E85 lacks in a good strong detergent solvent like gasoline does.
There have been SAE and other OEM studies that show some variants of it can actually increases deposits. www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2020-01-2100/
Got two uncles around this gentleman's age, one is a retired engineer from Dodge, the other a retired test engineer from Jeep, boy do they remind me of this guy! Such a passion and knowledge for car and captivating to hear them talk about it!
I daily drive my 2012 mustang gt on e85 for 5 years now. I recently replaced the oil pan / pick up tube., Everything was okay. A good & big catch can helps a lot
Thanks for sharing your time and expertise making this video. I always suspected short engine runs and poor-quality oils to harm engines but never had proof or problems to confirm this. Something I will keep an eye on.
That is one of the reasons why I enjoy your videos so much - no BS! :) I truly appreciate that you're willing to admit that you don' t know everything and can make mistakes. I had heard horror stories of potential build-up that ethanol can create (take this as RUMOR because I have nothing to substantiate it) on the fuel injectors causing poor spray patterns, and over time, clogging the injectors. Is there any validity to this?
Cool vid. Theres a famous garage owner in Brazil called ADG from High Torque, he points out the same thing, E85 (quite popular in Brazil) is cool for performance, but for original gas engines and direct injection it gunks a lot of moving parts such as injectors and contaminates oil.
I considered trying out the flex fuel setup with an under the table tune from a friend, after using my tgv wiring to connect to the ecu. Things have to be done “differently “ now since the shift in Cobb’s direction. And “Smeedia” is a big proponent for E85, and has so far shown no residual damage like this. But he also rotates his project vehicles way too soon to expose this fatal flaw with E85. Thank you for all your posts and honest appraisal of the Subaru platform. You have been amazing with your knowledge base and experience. I honestly don’t trust half of what is posted online, and the other half is researched in depth further if relevant to my situation. But when you talk about any subject, I can honestly take it to the bank. Thank you. And I’ve now decided against E85. It’s an added expense that isn’t really needed, and certainly not worth the risk. On another subject though, I’d like to ask your opinion of the “cylinder 4 cooling mod”. There are a lot of opposing opinions on the subject. The creator of “get-a-dom” has gone into extensive detail in his reasoning for his implementation of this mod and is convincing in his defense. But there are other builders that are telling Subaru turbo enthusiasts not to waste their time and money. And have gone as far as to say that it has negative effect on the engine. It’s my intention to keep my installed mod for prevention and longevity on both my daily, and my project car. Having you weigh in on this would set my mind, and I’m sure many, many others at ease too. I’m of the opinion that it is a plus. But as I’ve said, I hold your opinion canon for this platform. Thanks again for the posts on this subject.
Great video, I don't have E85 available to me but I've always made it a point to let my car fully warm up when I can, even if I'm going 2 miles down the road to fill up the gas for the work week or whatever I'll take a route that brings me in a circle around town that it can get nice and hot on but not take too much time.
I love E85 and use it on all my vehicles efficiently. RUclips keeps pushing this negative video on my feed, and it is unnecessary. Hopefully you can read this.
I have watched it a few times. Still keeps coming up. I am still a very big sponsor for E85 and found it hard to see what it did with such care. People left very good comments and it was nice to see full spectrum on the matter. Still kinda wonder why is on my front page everyday when I open up RUclips....@@motoiq
It is a very good fuel, except for short hop driving and long term storage. I dunno why it keeps showing up so much in your feed when you already watched it. The you tube algorithm I guess. With me it disappears after I watch a video. Maybe you have to click through from the suggestions?
If you already had the sludge in your car how would you remove the sludge? Run gas every third tank and change oil more frequently? Then to prevent drive longer distances?
I am grateful for this video. I was considering running flex fuel in my 2010 Triton 3v due to the cost differential ($5.40 vs $2.99). Almost all if the driving is short distances, and the engines lubrication issues are well known. I'll try it for long trips, but stick to regular gas for everyday. I winder if some of the poor reputation of the Triton is from flex fuel use leading to failed roller rockers.
Good information to have as I’m planning to move my car to a higher E blend soon. I drive about 5 miles to work every day and take long trips every weekend so I should be okay. Though my plan to do 3k mile oil changes has been changed to 1500 miles
if your oil temps get above 220F that should be enough to burn off any moisture in the oil, but you would be surprised how long it take to get oil in an engine to that temp.
@@alitoroganan2442 After I wrote that I drove home from work in my 6.4L Hemi and an 8 miles trip ,5 miles at highway speeds my oil temp was 204F. Air temps was 68F. Water temp was 209F
Im glad I saw this video. I didnt realize you should run a specific oil. I have a lot of research to do. I always run Bradd Penn fot the high zinc and phosphorus. I know its designed for blow by when I built my gsx on 93.... but now that we have e85 in our area I built my evo x on e85 and used the same oil with no research
Good things to know, thanks for the heads up! I don't think I have much to worry about for my track day car since I'm constantly changing the oil, maybe I should look at some of those fuel stabilizers that are suppose to keep the amount of water absorbed in the alcohol to a minimum.
Too many comments to read them all so hopefully mine is not a repeat. It seems a consensus good quality oil changed frequently to be a solution in spite of this video clearly showing the consequences of having done just that. I would suggest the issue may be largely to do with the synthetic oils' suitability and perhaps a standard mineral oil compatible with diesel engines may be worth a try. I have been in the automotive repair business for nearly 50 years and have seen many similar sludge/ varnish type issues with short run gasoline engines running synthetic oils. I believe synthetic oils are superior in high heat/stress applications but are actually inferior in cold/light load conditions with regard to deposits. Just from my long term experience although none with Ethanol fuels.
Mike is the only person I've seen talk about his blown engine with a smile. If I ever get some sort of terminal disease or cancer, I would like Mike to break the news to me. And if at all possible, read me a bed time story about bearing tolerances.
I was just gonna say the same.
He learnt alot about the effects of e85 in a limited use street engine so that helps not much to smile about when your engine blows and you learn nothing 😂
Lol
It's because he got to prove people (I'm sure he is frustrated by) wrong. This is a pretty big discovery for another reason, for two he caught it before major damage could be done and is able to fix it. He was able to prove E85 just shouldn't be daily-ed.
Expensive lesson but learning none the less
Been running E85 in a 4G63 for 12 years plus. I cycle between periods of 91 & E85. The reason for the high carbon deposits on a E85 motor is that E85 is lacking, in percentage, the PIB cleaning solution found in regular high octane gas (PIB = Polyisobutylene). Injector gunk is very common on E85 run motors due to the low percentage of PIB. Learned this from a petroleum engineer.
Was the PIB thing also acting as a knock reducer cuz ethanol does that?
@@konic40 Fairly likely, as Isomers (branched molecules) usually have greater inherent detonation resistance, the more branched the higher resistance (typically). Pure 2,2,4 Trimethyl Pentane (Iso-octane) is RON and MON 100 per definition, and why a straight chain alkanes like pure (n)-Heptane is RON and MON 0 per definition. Infact, pure straight chained Octane (n-Octane) has a rating of -20 RON and -17 MON.
Would it be a good idea to run some additive type fuel injector cleaner every so often?
@@jda8176 I run a 1/4 tank 92 and 3/4 tank e85 with marvel mystery oil in the gas and in the oil before and after oil changes. And I use royal purple 0w 20. It always comes out looking golden still at 5k.
Does PIB actually clean ethanol deposits or is it mostly formulated to deal with petroleum deposits?
I am a lifetime race engine builder for 45+ years. What this man is saying is all true. I see a lot of cylinder wall wash etc. E- fuels are great for HP.
But like everything good comes with a price to be paid. GREAT VIDEO !!!
Come to Brazil to learn more about ethanol. A lot of tuned engines use E100 only here.
@@celtiberian I'd love to know what they do over there too. Too much superstition in America sometimes
The price to pay is the gas mileage...in this case it shouldn't matter as long as you drive frequently.
There's a genuine and honest lifetime race engine builder named Andy Randolph (NASCAR and formerly General Motors) who would say you don't know what you're talking about.
Here's an interview I did with Andy a few years ago: ruclips.net/video/xLztoTpsk5I/видео.html
In formula 1, grand prix, 24 hour lemans, etc. they all use straight methanol. When they tear down the engine after a race, you cannot even tell it did a lap.
The way you explain things, slowly, precisely makes it easier to understand, atleast for me.
Agreed!
My uncle bought a 96 dodge Dakota brand new. Changed his oil religiously every 3k miles. He only drove a few miles to work and home every day. I took his valve covers off after around 100k and his engine was pretty sludged up! He was very surprised but I explained to him that the short trips don’t evaporate the moisture out of his oil and that causes buildup. I think that truck is still running but definitely had some sludge issues. Short trip driving is the worst no matter what fuel you use!
Should i idle car for longer. What is remedy of i drive short distances. Idle 20 minutes or until fan comes on?
@@antd2733 I’d say change your oil once every 6 months, and use some type of engine cleaning procedure once a year, something that’s legit and proven not to harm internal parts
Idiling prolongs cold start - don't do it. Drive gently immediately after start for fastest warm up. Change oil every 2k-3k mi/ 2-3 mos depending on how much short tripping. I use Seafoam in the crankcase before each oil change.
Thank you for making this video, I feel like this is something that really doesn’t get talked about with e85
As a user of E85 in a high performance street car, I found your video very helpful and informative! Many Thanks! 👍
We typically drain the oil and fuel after a race. Fuel goes in a steel barrel and we swap gasoline back in and the oil goes into a modified water heater. It cooks the oil for 4hrs at 240f before shut off. Then ready for next race day. Obviously not much in common with street cars. A dual fuel system based on temperature would probably work best
You could gunk up your barrel...
True, what races have you entered?
@@nzuncovered1845 race that just beat your ass in the comments, bitch.
Why cook oil after a race when you can cook it during the race :D
@@tsslaporte He probably never gets to that temp long enough my guess.
Had a flex fuel vehicle and I always put 91 in after 2nd to 4th tank and changed the oil at 2,500 miles. I didn't do alot of short trips with but kept on top of the issues discussed.
Coming up on 100,000 of using E85 in my LX470. Flex fuel is the way to go. I have a catch can and it definitely fills with water quickly.
Catch Can?
Thanks for this video! That's horrible and is an E85 nightmare.
My E85 rules:
- Don't let it sit for long periods.
- Do oil more frequent oil changes.
- Don't do lots of short journeys, cold starts will also contaminate the oil way faster.
- Do longer trips to let oil come up to temperature and evaporate any water contamination.
- Use flex sensor if possible and run some 93/98 petrol through from time to time.
- Use a decent Ethanol stabilizer/additive to help protect against corrosion.
What's a flex sensor?
@@Eduardo_Espinoza Ethanol content analyser/sensor. Runs inline with the fuel rail befor the injectors so the ECU can measure the content of ethanol and update the ECU in real time. This means you can run any blend of petrol and/or ethanol at any given time.
@Richard Smith yep You should run your vehicle after changing fuels long enough for that sensor ecm can adjust properly. Marvel mystery oil also helps if you don't run unladed
What do you consider long periods of time? I drive my e85 2018 Camaro SS once a week to work which is about 30 miles away
Helpful. Thank you! I started running an E40 tune on my S4
Awesome and hard lesson learned. Very informative to see the engine internals and diagnosis what happened. I love having E85/Flex Fuel in my turbocharged S2K but will be more careful and aware after seeing this video. Thanks for everything, guys!
If I had the money I'd ask Mike to build me a motor or 5
Just drive it often you’ll be fine
I was thinking any installing a supercharger do you think e85 would be ok for it, everyone I know that has one usually goes strictly 91
Would dosing with Marvel Mystery Oil help?
I have a 2013 impala, I rarely run E85 in it, but I do drive city all the time, so it’s definitely going to cause more frequent oil changes. I was happy to see on my most recent oil change, my oil life meter was at 0% with 1800 miles left to go according to the oil change sticker which was set at 5000 miles. I run mobile one synthetic 5W30 but I always change mine at around 3000 miles due to my frequent short trips around town. Normally my oil life monitoring system seems to run me to about 5K before indicating a need for an oil change. This time it was around 3K at 0% life left. I guess the oil life monitoring systems are coming along because when these first came out, it would run people to 10k at times or more before indicating the need to change the oil. Thank you for this amazing video, and for sharing your knowledge with the world!
For my Evo, I only use E85 during track days and go straight back to 98 after that, otherwise it fouls spark plugs, injectors and even rusts the exhaust. The condensation issue with E85 can't really be fixed unless you use it up regularly and drive decent distances weekly, it needs heat to boil away the condensation. C16 race fuel is the best I've used - clean and zero detonation, but E85 is much cheaper.
@user-gz9tq9fo5b Australia - we have pump 98.
@user-gz9tq9fo5b we got 98 octane here in Australia
Wow, the deposits on the pistons were surprising and the oil ring even more so! This is very valuable information living in the midwest with cheap and plentiful flex fuel options, thanks!
We run E100 here in Brazil. Ethanol delivers better power due to higher octane rating. But we know it is harsher on the engine, it needs to be ready to deal with ethanol. It is recommended here to run a full gasoline (our gas means E25 actually) tank from time to time to help clean the engine. But tuners just change the engine to be E100 only, running more turbo pressure or, if it is a NA engine, modifying the header to run a higher compression ratio.
I run e98 in the best mountains of the US (colorado) were like 5300 feet elevation. The one time I put "gas" (91 octane) in the car it blew up cuz it ran lean around a corner (shop owner was incompetent but his kids built some great cars.) Didn't have a surge tank like I was told, bobs your uncle. Hasta la vista baby. Sionara sucka.. fun car, 730wheel
I love these videos. I live on a small island so I dont have a big circle of people to learn about this stuff from. Thank you Mike and Moto IQ.
My experience with small engine powersports has taught me even regular pump gas containing 10-15% ethanol will cause similar results with nasty oily gunk on pistons from PCV/crankcase evaporation & oil wash. Carbureted applications it's extremely noticeable, especially if you tune a little rich for safety. Not the worst part but more of a PITA is how fuel will evaporate inside the carb and the ethanol won't leaving a gummy residue that'll clog jet needle chambers, choke jets, pilot/slow jets etc.. Few reasons I run Non Ethanol premium in my bikes all the time and cars when I can.
As a full time e85 user for 5 years in all my vehicles i pretty much conclude the opposite. It dissolves carbon deposits, cleans fuel injectors, and alcohol does not magically turn into gunk; its a liquid or a gas. The injectors being clogged is from the alcohol cleaning out your fuel filter and those debris ending up getting stuck in the fuel injectors. The solution is to change and upgrade to a better fuel filter suitable for e85.
Ethanol doesnt do any damage at all to the metals in your engine unless youre running your engine rich all the time. I run my engines at 1.1 lambda during normal driving conditions so im getting a similar amount of liquid fuel per air as it'd be getting on gas to avoid washing lubricant off the cylinder walls.
If you dont warm up your car to 190°f youre treating your engine like shit whether youre running gas or alcohol. Alcohol is the superior fuel in all ways aside from cold starts and needing to refuel more often.
Alcohol creates more than 60% water during the burning process and it is this that causes the issues.
1) Laminar flame speed of ethanol is FASTER than gasoline. This is why OEM flex fuel calibrations run LESS timing at part throttle with ethanol than gasoline.
2) If you do a ton of cold starts without warming the engine up, you will make sludge regardless of fuel type. Running a colder thermostat makes this worse. The engine NEEDS to get up to normal operating temp and stay there to keep the oil healthy.
3) His assertion that "ethanol does not burn clean" is tied to samples that were run under enrichment more (race engine). Of course you'll have more carbon deposits at lambda=0.8 than at lambda=1.0.
4) "Detonation" (he means knock) from crevice volume of fuel is largely tied to over-fueling. Check the toon.
Properly done, E85 is not that bad. He is correct that "short hop driving" is bad, but that goes for any fuel.
Thx for the video and info bro! You’re awesome and I love your videos and content. I’ve learned so much from you I can’t even begin to tell you. It’s crazy we are all still learning now matter how far along we are in a profession , there’s still more to learn. Thank you for what you do bro, forget about the guys with the lame comments, trolls are all over the internet and it’s just something you have to deal with and let go, don’t even waste your time on stupid comments, the majority of us love and appreciate what you do and the content you bring !
Thank you for all the useful and priceless information. I've been a commercial driver for thirty years. The current transportation company I work for, and the two previous companies are in the livery business (Transporting people). All three have a number of flex fuel vehicles that can burn E85 fuel or regular gasoline. At the insistence of the owners and their mechanics, we, the drivers, filled the fuel tanks with 87 octane gasoline exclusively. No problems. I am about to purchase a nice, mint condition, used minivan that has the flex fuel system that can burn either E85 or regular gasoline. I will fill the tank with 87 octane ONLY. Also, the oil and filter will be changed frequently. Thank you very much. I have great respect for your knowledge and how you explain things.
E85 will absolutely do everything said here and more. Including stripping oil from valve stems, drying out valve stem seals and oil leaching into the engine at idle. It happened to me in my F150 5.0L over one winter.
I don’t daily my Evo, it’s primarily a track toy. I have a flex tune so I run approximately E60-E70 to and at the track. I fill with 91 on for the drive home and try to keep only 91 in smaller volumes till next track event - typically 4-6 weeks. In between I drive it for about 20-30 minutes weekly. Been doing this for about 7 years. Changed the pan gasket last year and it was clean.
Save the E85 for the track
I agree.
Excellent! well done. No stupid comment here. Thx for the info. I'm considering E85 in my V6 F-Type (Jaguar) to take the 340hp to around 550. But I can get around 475hp on standard 91 octane fuel. Which is also plenty. Decisions decisions. My car sits mostly during the week and gets around 100 miles on weekends.hhhmmm
Oh ya, I also had a 2004 wrx that I was making 404hp for most of it's life, on E85. I sold that car at 192k on it with still the stock motor. I might be able to blame E85 for the 3 transmissions I blew up. But I sold that car with the stock 2.0 motor. Bought the car brand new in 2004. Started running E at about 60k.
I love the content especially the fact that he looks like he's about to break out laughing or say some smart remark.
Hey you made me sub cause I like your straight forward results proven honesty! Considering the cost of quality oil for a car makes using E85 more costly and for the average owner whom neglects their car it could cost them big time. And for guys who store their cars more than they drive them they better take heed to your advice.
Absolutely right, even the garage kept cars need a long drive every once in a while to burn off the moisture and liquefy the sludge.
Motor flushes at each and every oil change would be a wise practice on these low mile, low use engines.
I try to take my cars for a long (1 hour plus) freeway drive before doing the oil change to get everything hot and hopefully drained out of the oil pan.
I have used routine motor flushes and Seafoam in the crankcase of badly neglected vehicles to un-stick rings and noisy lifters with great results and improvements.
This guy makes amazing videos check em all out
Yeah, this guy is brilliant and the comments are generally intelligent and insightful. It's a pretty good resource / community.
On my older vehicles I still run conventional oil for this reason. handles moisture better. I did a video about converting my old cars over to 0-w40 synthetic but I dont think they make enough oil temperature to burn off the moisture. My modern cars oil temps go over 220F easy so there is no problems. Im going to monitor my Hondas oil temps this summer and see what I got and go from there.
I think this kinda damage from short trip driving could happen with gas too. great reminder to make sure you get your car up to operating temp!
It sure can but it takes longer. We had an LS3 at our shop ruined like that.
Yup he said that multiple times...
@@motoiq What oil did you run? Did you know what Base group the oil you ran was made from? And what was the average oil change interval?
I used to live very close to work. The engine on My daily was all sludged up, even though I changed the oil on time.
@@randallmason9687 all the more reason you should be using a pao based synthetic oil. Because it's more resistant to sludging.
This is why I have a flex tune for my car. My commute is sometimes short, and I try to at least let the engine run for a while to get rid of moisture. I try not to run e85 all the time because of the need for more frequent oil changes and the build up of moisture. I try to run 93 every 3rd to 4th tank of e85 because from my understanding it eats up the gunk that can form from the e85.
the man, the myth, the legend!
incredible we get to learn this stuff for free, thanks for sharing!
Honestly looks to me like the oil never got hot enough to bake off dissolved fuel in the oil. Small amounts of blowby do deposit some fuel into the oil and tend to acidify it over time, but most of that fuel vaporizes and gets sucked up by the PCV system to be burnt again.
And as soon as the gummy ethanol rich oil started to gum up and deposit on the rings, the excess blowby accelerated the contamination of the oil dramatically, causing a feedback loop where it just got worse and worse.
the feedback loop of oil contamination occurred when then oil control rings failed.
I agree, this is really applicable to all engines, E85 might just slightly speed up a process that is the result of abuse.
@@fry.master Yes, and it gets worse with the engines that have
1. Narrow low tension oil rings
2. Very little provision in the piston for oil to drain back.
I pulled off 2007 Chevy suburban oil pan to reseal and definitely I can tell after 180k miles the oil pan was 95 percent cleaner than what is shown in this video and the owner is my relative he always uses e85 flex fuel on his suburban
I run e85 about 90 percent of the time on my brz. I haven’t had issues and that’s because I’m very crazy about my maintenance and making sure my car is warmed up. I think that’s what has help me with my car. I do use royal purple as well.
Awesome so helpful, i always try to get my car to full temp even before pulling out of the driveway but this just goes to show how important it is. Thx!
L'important est la temperature d'huile, pas l'eau
Thank you, this video is very informative. I had no idea that running straight E85 is or has the potential for being so detrimental to an engine.
Another nice video motoIQ, ive been a fan for quite a while and I gotta say I like how in depth all of these videos are. keep up the good work!
I really enjoy your videos. Your extremely detail oriented yet can talk down to earth. Thank you for the time you take..
This mechanic is the most knowledgeable man I've never heard
Thank You
Great information. Your humility is admirable and you have acquired the expertise you have by always being willing to learn something new. One of the best life skills I think.
Here in Zimbabwe, the ethanol in our fuel is made from sugar cane... It's not great at all. I've had inlet valves stuck closed so bad it bends pushrods on startup.. And no carb cleaner will clean it out of the carbs. The only thing I found that takes it off is lacquer thinners and Wynns compression stabalizer/carbon buster. Which is pretty harsh chemicals
I've ran E85 for years on my Evo and STI. Definitely run some regular gas once in a while if you're mostly running ethanol. My current car is built for FlexFuel, but I still run regular pump gas and change the oil often. Great video!!
Blaming e 85 for his daughter driving habits is wild
@@ineedapharmistsI mean it could happen to anyone, but I'm sure he will probably give her some tips for next time! 🤘
That makes perfect sense. I bought a car from a guy that was running e85, and now the car has massive rod knock. Haven't taken the engine apart yet to quite see the Damage done to the motor. Thank you for the info and video very helpful.
I wish I had the money to build cars/engines and had you as a mentor. Just such a chill and knowledgable dude.
Another epic video sir! Thanks to the green deal I am planning to get two separate maps to run e85 and 93 for my subie and this video will definitely help me in the future 👍🏾
Without resorting to jerk status and bringing up the 'EJ Disclaimer', short trips are the death nail for pretty much any IC engine. I've been round and round with a lot of Toyota folks with short trips eventually leading to oil burning rings, especially in the low tension era. You pretty much nailed it across the board though. Ethanol isn't exactly and every day wonder fuel outside of specific conditions that everyone wants it to be. And that's just covering how hard it is on the fuel system by itself! I've not seen that kind of build-up in the oil system, but there's a first for everything, right?
I was surprised when he said it got frequent oil changes, I wonder if using a motor flush at every oil change would have kept the internals looking good or if the moisture still would have wrecked it?
Death knell ;)
@@davidparker9676 Honestly I don't think anything short of pulling the pan would have given an advanced notice that that much sludge was down there. Chemical flushes *might help to a small degree (once you're aware of the problem of course), but without added pressure over what the vehicle's oil pump can supply, you're only going to dislodge what a topical rinse would move. Nature of a hygroscopic beast unfortunately.
@@sssnake2332 Ding!
@@C-M-E I agree that this would have blindsided me as well.
He never mentioned how many miles were on the engine, but he did know to change the oil more frequently due to using E85.
I think that going forward, a chemical flush at every or every other oil change would be wise in such a scenario. It seems that the rings get gummed up first and accelerate the rest of the problems.
Always good info coming from this channel for imports and domestics. Not sure why anyone would leave questionable comments with the amount of useful knowledge that's always shared here.
It's probably because He's blaming a sludge engine not on his daughter driving habits but on E85.
Not sure. What I heard is that E85 would cause this condition if anyone drove in mainly cold start mode driving conditions, never fully allowing their engine to warm up.
Just discovered this channel... perfect balance between technical, shop and slang talk
ran e85 for 8k mi. straight, short trips, long trips, 3k mi oil changes with motul or Valvoline VR1, zero sludge. and no fuel additive. and no tar on the pistons. and this is a street engine.
Awesome info. I have always been a big proponent of letting an engine come up to full temperature even if just doing shorty trips regardless of what kind of fuel.
Fantastic info!
The content of your video here shows many years of experience. Easy to understand and practical information that can be applied to many different situations.
Thanks guys 🙂
Super informative! Never heard of this downside to e85. You got a subscription sir!
Thanks for sharing. I was about to try e85 mod, but I only drive shorter distances. Better stay on regular fuel.
Been using e85 in 4cyl cars for 10 years now. We live by oil changes often. Most these cars make well above 500whp and oil is changed at longest every 1k miles, most even more often, injectors flowed and checked often, anytime the engine starts the car runs up to temp to burn off moisture. Have never had any issues due to being very fussy with what we do.
I'm curious how many total miles on the engine?
I was surprised when you said it had oil changes every 2000 miles, this video was a major eye opener for me. I will pay even closer attention to the oil of my occasionally-driven cars.
"I get in to a situation where I think I know everything but obviously I don't"
I never imagined this guy admitting this so easily, since I think he knows everything.
You never know everything, learn something new every day!
Wow, you addmited that easily.
Another great video Mike! Love all the detailed explanations.
Thank you so much for sharing and all of the comments. I am going to start balancing E85 and 93 octane pure gas in my ROUSH. Thank you!
Incredibly informative for anyone considering a flex fuel conversion/upgrade. Excellent real world examples! Thank you.
Evo8 ethanol 100% of the time.
Oil changes very very frequently.
Fic2150s cleaned yearly by fic.
Warm up is very important.
Ive never seen oil or a pan sludge like that even on my own car thats wild. Ive been using amsoil zrod in mine for like 8 years on the same motor. My oil pan has never looked like that so i wonder if there was some kind of reaction from the oil you used. I havent been in my car for about 6 months and its going into the shop for yearly services il pull my pan and see if i have anything similar. Good info in this video though
What is your warm up producer when cold starting your Evo?
@2wheelfamily493 start it and let it idle for 5 minutes or so.
Im on an elite 1500 and have literally every sensor available from haltec. Winter time is a different game. I dont really drive my car at all in the winter unless I have to but I just extend my idle time until it's completely warm before going anywhere.
That was some amazing slug. I will note with ethanol being hydroscopic it will pick up more water when it's humid out. I always warm up my e85 cars after it rains or they like to give me hard starts if I don't
Hygroscopic*
@@aygwm That's a mistake I've been making for years.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroscope
Good stuff. I suspect this is one of the reasons Ford recommends running a tank of gasoline at least once per oil change in the flex fuel F-150 5.0 engines. Although this video has me questioning whether that is frequent enough. In my case it's not really a concern because I end up switching fuels more frequently than that just because of variations in cost and availability.
Run Marvel mystery oil that will do the job instead of unleaded. Oil catch can for sure, I have oz omega tune it's awesome flex fuel tune on coyote
@@justingill5256 I have the Omega tune in my 2017 as well. Very pleased with it. The transmission tuning that's part of it also makes the truck more fun to drive. E85 isn't available everywhere around here, so I switch back and forth a lot just because of what's convenient.
@Jay Slabotsky 3.31 gears 21gt ported mani with cai, getting 49 mph out of 1st gear 87 mph out 2nd. Gen 3 with 3.31 gears gt ported with omega x tune is getting 49 mph out of 1st on a damn 10 speed 😯
good to hear, thanks for your experience!
I'm very happy to never run for any less than 15 minutes, but generally nothing less than 30 minutes. My engines are always properly warmed any time they're fired up.
I thank you for the education on E85. I just got a Dodge Grand Caravan GT on flexflue so I needed to know how often to use gasoline. I heard it was a 50/50 mix. Your advice is every third tank. I'm going to do that, I just want better so I don't have issues. Again I appreciate your videos so much. Wiley
Love your videos and your chill delivery of high-quality info. Cheers.
You mean the constant, never ending Smile that he has as he talk? Kinda gets annoying because he facial expression just never changes. He’s Happy the entire time. It’s not…. Normal to be this happy and smile constantly. Ugh, drives me crazy. 😖😒😑
Can confirm this with carbon build on a engine that I built and was running E85, the tuner I used at the time (many years back now before I started tuning myself) tuned it with excessively low lambda/AFR with pretty mediocre timing advance for no good reason and didnt tune anything regarding the transient fueling as intended. Basically washing the oil film off the cylinder walls and all that. The piston crowns were completely covered in sticky carbon crud as well as parts of the piston ring land. That engine was filthy inside after just 5000km with two oil changes and a lot of longer drives.
A lot can be avoided with proper tuning and stop using excessive AFRs/lambdas except for those short drives which are the worst and always will be bad. Now doing everything myself I havent experienced this type of carbon build anymore.
Sounds like a "pro" tuner.
Wondering if you could do a video on the use of water methanol injection? I've been running a Snow system for a couple of years and I've noticed more catch can liquid, similar to a milkshake, since installing it. Love your content... I always learn something from you. Thanks! 🤘🏁
On my car the catch can fluid is always kinda milkshake because of blowing oil mixed with water condensation
Great video! Never saw this! Some of the old high compression pre-emissions engines will actually get better MPG on E-85 because you have to pull so much timing out to prevent pinging with modern fuels, especially if you are too poor to buy premium all the time and are depending on one to get to work! You just need to make sure your power enrichment valves or metering rods have a VERY drastic step in them to take advantage of alchohol's wider tuning window to cruise lean. (Use a good lead substitute valve lubricant in the fuel!) I could pick up 3 MPG this way because I could advance the timing without rattling a 10.2:1 Chrysler 413, replacing the 195 thermostats with 160 helped also. I hate late timing that makes an idling engine sound like it's hauling a truck up a hill! The shop manual for that car said to put in the fuel you were going to use, warm up the car and keep advancing the timing until it pinged for 2 seconds in low when floored from a standing start. That was to optimize performance over the conservative factory setting in the weather, fuel, and altitude the car was operating at. Then they showed you pictures of how to read spark plugs to adjust fuel jetting for best performance. 40 years of tuning big gas engines in heavy trucks, and 13 years of drag racing and gas tractor pulling proved them right for me! Many old engines pre-emissions were WAY conservative on timing and fuel just in case some guy went through death valley in the summer with half the radiator and aircleaner plugged, and low-bob's 80 octane gas in the tank, and his foot on the floor because he left something turned on at home, it still wouldn't come apart. But, you can only convince about 1 out of a hundred people to put down the manual on jet sizes and the timing light and POWER tune a 60+ year old vehicle! Especially on new style gas! Now I know about short trip E-85. However, I always drove 50 miles a day, didn't baby them, and blended in more gas in the winter.
That I you for this, it was very informative. The whole time I was thinking why not just let it warm up, it only takes about 10 minutes, and then you finally said it at the end. I think that’s honestly the best advice, you probably don’t need to go on too long of trips if the engine gets up to temp before you drive.
I wanted to comment and say how much I love this video. You always come through with great content! By the way, huge shoutout and thanks for responding to my messages back in November about how I should be rebuilding my EJ205. It's been an incredible 2300 kilometres since then, and my engine is running better than ever, all thanks to your guidance. Keep up the excellent work! 👍🔥
>_> what did they say about rebuilding it? I have one that doesn't sound happy
@@baelm In my case all of my pistons were burning oil, it had some piston slap and I eventually (somehow) broke one of the camshafts. These happened probably due to a bad previous engine rebuild. I had a lot of questions in my mind regarding if I should do a forged or a stock rebuild for a daily. As you know, forged engines have piston slap when it's cold as well, and I don't quite like that. I just can't get used to it. Reliability and longevity was what I desired the most and I didn't know which build would be more suitable in this case. Mike advised me to go with a stock rebuild, and that I could upgrade the oil pump to 11mm for a daily. I followed his advice with the stock rebuild, but I got the 12mm oil pump instead. I don't have any issues so far, but I'm genuinely curious about how long this engine will last because I redline it every time I drive it x)
@@Gentleman1337 thanks for sharing what he told you, pretty sure i have piston slap as well but if i had to replace the whole long block i would wand to go for a 207 if possible
@@baelm if it's cheaper than getting it machined, honestly go for it
Insufficient crackcase ventilation is often a factor here as well. Water and other combustion byproducts degrade the oil. When the oil doesnt get hot enough, it can't evaporate the water. And restrictive breather setups will reduce the evaporation rate even when the oil is up to temp.
This guy has a very pleasant demeanor. I wouldn't be smiling like that if my daughter's engine needed repairs to such extent. How does he stay happy?
The guy is constantly pulling out engines and rebuilding them, its not as massive of an undertaking for him as it is for some of us hobbyists. You can tell hes not hurting for money or equipment to fix it, I’m sure he got it all rebuilt in a pretty short period and its back on the road, and not to mention the content he got out of it, the video probably paid for the engine.
Well... the obvious answer is being so close everyday to all that ethanol ;)
Use motor flush at each oil change. Let the engine idle for about 20 minutes then drain. Been doing this for years, never any issues. Internals stay clean, even after 100k miles.
Add a balanced mix of a PEA solution of your choice IE Chevron Techron/GumOut with your E85 fill up. E85 lacks in a good strong detergent solvent like gasoline does.
There have been SAE and other OEM studies that show some variants of it can actually increases deposits. www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2020-01-2100/
Got two uncles around this gentleman's age, one is a retired engineer from Dodge, the other a retired test engineer from Jeep, boy do they remind me of this guy! Such a passion and knowledge for car and captivating to hear them talk about it!
I use e85 in my Porsche since 2016. i Never had any Problems. The oil is cleaner!
I daily drive my 2012 mustang gt on e85 for 5 years now. I recently replaced the oil pan / pick up tube., Everything was okay. A good & big catch can helps a lot
Thanks for sharing your time and expertise making this video. I always suspected short engine runs and poor-quality oils to harm engines but never had proof or problems to confirm this. Something I will keep an eye on.
Great video as usual Mike. Always great to see real-world stuff from
Other people in the biz.
I wish I had a flexfuel STi when I was in high school... I would have drove it a lot more lol.
Sage advice from Saint Mike, patron saint of the gearhead. May the car gods bless you.
That is one of the reasons why I enjoy your videos so much - no BS! :)
I truly appreciate that you're willing to admit that you don' t know everything and can make mistakes.
I had heard horror stories of potential build-up that ethanol can create (take this as RUMOR because I have nothing to substantiate it) on the fuel injectors causing poor spray patterns, and over time, clogging the injectors. Is there any validity to this?
Cool vid. Theres a famous garage owner in Brazil called ADG from High Torque, he points out the same thing, E85 (quite popular in Brazil) is cool for performance, but for original gas engines and direct injection it gunks a lot of moving parts such as injectors and contaminates oil.
Tahoe been on it for e85 nothing else but it's daily driver and gets driven long distance. Oil looks great on my tahoe 15w50 high zinc
I considered trying out the flex fuel setup with an under the table tune from a friend, after using my tgv wiring to connect to the ecu. Things have to be done “differently “ now since the shift in Cobb’s direction. And “Smeedia” is a big proponent for E85, and has so far shown no residual damage like this. But he also rotates his project vehicles way too soon to expose this fatal flaw with E85. Thank you for all your posts and honest appraisal of the Subaru platform. You have been amazing with your knowledge base and experience. I honestly don’t trust half of what is posted online, and the other half is researched in depth further if relevant to my situation. But when you talk about any subject, I can honestly take it to the bank. Thank you. And I’ve now decided against E85. It’s an added expense that isn’t really needed, and certainly not worth the risk.
On another subject though, I’d like to ask your opinion of the “cylinder 4 cooling mod”. There are a lot of opposing opinions on the subject. The creator of “get-a-dom” has gone into extensive detail in his reasoning for his implementation of this mod and is convincing in his defense. But there are other builders that are telling Subaru turbo enthusiasts not to waste their time and money. And have gone as far as to say that it has negative effect on the engine. It’s my intention to keep my installed mod for prevention and longevity on both my daily, and my project car. Having you weigh in on this would set my mind, and I’m sure many, many others at ease too. I’m of the opinion that it is a plus. But as I’ve said, I hold your opinion canon for this platform. Thanks again for the posts on this subject.
I use in on my own builds, it's cheap, easy to install and there is good data that it works.
Great video, I don't have E85 available to me but I've always made it a point to let my car fully warm up when I can, even if I'm going 2 miles down the road to fill up the gas for the work week or whatever I'll take a route that brings me in a circle around town that it can get nice and hot on but not take too much time.
In other words….if you use E85, be sure to beat the brakes off it a couple times a day.
I love E85 and use it on all my vehicles efficiently. RUclips keeps pushing this negative video on my feed, and it is unnecessary. Hopefully you can read this.
Maybe you should watch it because e85 sucks under certain conditions you should avoid.
I have watched it a few times. Still keeps coming up. I am still a very big sponsor for E85 and found it hard to see what it did with such care. People left very good comments and it was nice to see full spectrum on the matter. Still kinda wonder why is on my front page everyday when I open up RUclips....@@motoiq
It is a very good fuel, except for short hop driving and long term storage. I dunno why it keeps showing up so much in your feed when you already watched it. The you tube algorithm I guess. With me it disappears after I watch a video. Maybe you have to click through from the suggestions?
@@RyanRoy-s4h Exxon mobil pays people to post in public how bad Ethanol is..if you like it youll get the hits. I do all the time.
If you already had the sludge in your car how would you remove the sludge? Run gas every third tank and change oil more frequently? Then to prevent drive longer distances?
Change the oil a lot go on long drives. Carefully use engine flush.
Incredible video, love your content and the information you give us along with it.
I am grateful for this video. I was considering running flex fuel in my 2010 Triton 3v due to the cost differential ($5.40 vs $2.99). Almost all if the driving is short distances, and the engines lubrication issues are well known. I'll try it for long trips, but stick to regular gas for everyday. I winder if some of the poor reputation of the Triton is from flex fuel use leading to failed roller rockers.
Good information to have as I’m planning to move my car to a higher E blend soon. I drive about 5 miles to work every day and take long trips every weekend so I should be okay. Though my plan to do 3k mile oil changes has been changed to 1500 miles
Why don't you try doing used oil analysis to see what the interval should be?
if your oil temps get above 220F that should be enough to burn off any moisture in the oil, but you would be surprised how long it take to get oil in an engine to that temp.
@@oldblueaccord2629 how long does it usually takes to get to the normal operating temp?
@@alitoroganan2442 After I wrote that I drove home from work in my 6.4L Hemi and an 8 miles trip ,5 miles at highway speeds my oil temp was 204F. Air temps was 68F. Water temp was 209F
This guy is so charismatic. I love the explanations too... Amazing host.
Im glad I saw this video. I didnt realize you should run a specific oil. I have a lot of research to do. I always run Bradd Penn fot the high zinc and phosphorus. I know its designed for blow by when I built my gsx on 93.... but now that we have e85 in our area I built my evo x on e85 and used the same oil with no research
This is the guy who is going to build my R35
There's always someone that knows better. They are usually a$&holes. Big love Mike. I love every morsel you can give!❤️❤️
Good things to know, thanks for the heads up! I don't think I have much to worry about for my track day car since I'm constantly changing the oil, maybe I should look at some of those fuel stabilizers that are suppose to keep the amount of water absorbed in the alcohol to a minimum.
Too many comments to read them all so hopefully mine is not a repeat.
It seems a consensus good quality oil changed frequently to be a solution in spite of this video clearly showing the consequences of having done just that. I would suggest the issue may be largely to do with the synthetic oils' suitability and perhaps a standard mineral oil compatible with diesel engines may be worth a try. I have been in the automotive repair business for nearly 50 years and have seen many similar sludge/ varnish type issues with short run gasoline engines running synthetic oils. I believe synthetic oils are superior in high heat/stress applications but are actually inferior in cold/light load conditions with regard to deposits. Just from my long term experience although none with Ethanol fuels.
Or time between changes is more important than miles in this one case.
Thanks Mike, i always enjoy hearing your knowledge on these subjects.