Is Non-Ethanol Gasoline Really Better? See the PROOF!
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2019
- Is non-ethanol gasoline really better for fuel efficiency? What about carbon buildup? In this video I use a generator with electronic fuel injection to measure fuel efficiency, an engine with a see-through cylinder head to observe the combustion process, and an additional small engine to measure carbon buildup. Hope you enjoy the video! I enjoy reading your comments. So, please let me know what you thought of this video, and I look forward to your future video ideas!
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I'm a mechanical engineer at Texas A&M. Project farm always makes me smile with his attention to detail, his consistent procedures, honest and unbiased results, and logical/practical methods. What I learn from channels like these is on par with what i get in class. Thank you for your professionalism. Keep it up!
Thank you very much!
Would like to see more trails, but great comment!
This man goes to great lengths in all the tests he performs. Love his videos!!!
He is the definition of a true homemade American scientist how exact in details. Thank you Project Farm.
Couldn't agree more.
Lawnmower for sale. Runs excellent. Has rebuilt engine. (20 times over)
lol
At least it is not a "mechanic's special".
No low balling I know what I have
with optional electric start
@@Katarinarabbit honestly you're right....
Hi. I like your approach very much for the testing. I can share some experience with you, having been an engine test and development engineer for BM from Brasil. Our main task there was adapting the engines for the Brazilian fuel mixture (up to 25% ethanol or even 100% ethanol). Out of all materials, durability, efficiency and wear testing done on my time there, some very nice evidences came out
1 - Up to a certain ammount of ethanol (the 10% you use here) engines are indeed more efficient - ethanol burns very efficiently, unlike the other detonation inhibitors used. But the detergent/cleaning properties ot the ethanol on carbon deposits are not so pronounced.
2 - the more ethanol you add, harder it will be on engine starting at cold weather. That is why North America stuck with the 10% mark. At 15% is hard to start anything below -15C. Since this extreme cold is never found in Brasil, they chose to increase ethanol content, so the cleaning benefits of the alchool are more evident. I tested 25% ethanol engines that, after more than 10k hours of endurance, looked like a 1-3K used pure gasoline engine, when it comes to carbon and slug deposit. The 100% ethanol engines did not built carbon at all.
3 - YES, any rubber that has a particular base material (If memory serves, any fluor-based rubber) WILL degrade VERY rapidly when using ethanol. All manufacturers that habe been to Brail sellin cars KNOW that. We spend pretty much a decade testing and adapting rubbers and metallic parts to resist the corrosion. So... in new engines this will not be an issue. BUT if you use ethanol in a very old engine (like one with a CARBURATOR), you will likely see the rubber degradation, since those engines may not have the enhanced rubber and metallic coating found today.
4 - Ethanol performance as a carbon deposit inhibiter is not as good on 2-stroke engines Since you actually burn a mixture of gasoline and oil, due to the very nature of the cycle.
Hope that helps your quest.
Thanks for the info. Our Govt is making us switch to 20% ethanol on advise of your former President Jair Bolsonaro. So far we are on 10% and this year we will probably go to 15 or 20%. A lot of our old vehicles esp two wheelers are on carburetors. Wonder how this will go.
Excelente explicação
So basically… driving a modern car (built in the last 10-20 years) the local fuel source should be absolutely fine?
It’s almost like the automakers and fuel companies have a picnic on occasion and talk about this…..
@@glutenfreebeerbrian They do! It is not a Picnic, it is a SAE and the AIEE committees regarding automotive fuel and lubricants. They try to push the envelope for these technologies, and align the materials and performance. It has been there for almost 100 years.
There are analogue committees for Aeronautical systems too. The engineering community for Aerospace and Automotive is really active and try to agree on standards and procedures before governments put our unwanted regulations.
Regarding your first observation... Yes, LOCAL manufactured cars will work perfectly with LOCAL fuel and lubricant standards. Problem is when you get import cars, and get new technology fuels and lubricants in older cars. This has to be closely watched.
Ethanol (the subject matter on the original post) reacts to older tech rubber and metallic materials. That is what you need to be aware.
Wow i thought there is only stupid people in Brasil ;
Turns out there are exceptions
Simply one of the best channels on RUclips. He does what we'd all like to see done, and does it very well. A huge thanks.
Thanks and you are welcome!
As a test engineer I well know that nothing is more instructive than testing something to directly see the outcome. We even learn from our mistakes! I love how thorough you are and how thoughtfully planned your experiments are. This is science for everyone. Thanks!
You are welcome!
Absolutely agree..
Can I get ur phone number
@@Nabsolute_ Can I return your sister?
@@usernamemykel 😂
“I haven’t owned it long enough to recommend it.”-words of wisdom
Good Point!
@@ProjectFarm now thats its boating season could you do me and everyone a huge favor and test products used to shock tge fuel system made to decarbon, clean gum and varnish, lines and stabilize. The 3 major brands for boating is yamaha ring free, star tron ring clean, kind of a knock off and techron marine fuel additive. Now it's said these will not only maintain but cause do a deep cleaning with a shock treatment. Pretty much you need to use 2 ounces per gallon, Yamaha recommended 1 gallon for 64 gallons for a longer shock treatment but since your engines are much smaller maybe you can just for 10 ounces to 5 gallons. Please get back to me if you can cause with the shortages in outboard motors this can insanely help if preventing repowering motors cause my damaged motors.
Thank you soo much
@@ProjectFarm pp
@Lucifer Morningstar why are you telling me to shut my mouth
@Lucifer Morningstar I want to do this because it's a super important thing to do to outboards and the products are VERYYT expensive so it's best to know if it works or it's just snake oil
Love your videos. Absolutely excellent. The reason the water-ethanol volume was not 30 mL was likely due to partial molal volumes. When two miscible liquids are mixed the total volume does not often equal the sum of the volumes. This is due to packing and molecular attractions ( hydrogen bonding , Vander Waals attractions, etc). I am a research organic chemist but again your work is really great!!
This.
I was hoping someone would point this out!! I’m not an organic chemist but I’ve taken some college courses and know some pharmacology and bio chemistry 😇
I remember we did an experiment where we combine miscible liquids and the teach said something about the molecules getting in btw each other!! 😇
Just the work he puts into doing all these experiments is mindblowing!! My friends and I tried 2 and was just glad it was over, same conditions but more people working on the projects! There is so much work as he cuts a LOT out in his presentations! Better Him than us. Just Great work.
Aussie chris 🇦🇺
Thank you very much!
No fluff either, states the facts and compares outcomes. Love watching him.
yeah I found it logical and well presented.
I'm pretty sure youtube pays him handsomely
As a Subaru Technician in Australia we find that E10 fuel
Leaves deposits on fuel injectors and eats away at platinum spark plugs a standard plug gap can go from 1.1mm at factory to 3mm in 112,500 km(sometimes within 50,000km) with the electrode being eaten away. The same spark plug type with non ethanol fuel is dirty but not damaged in any way over the same 112,500km . The money saved by using E10 is spent on more costs at you dealership or workshop due to poor quality fuel.
This is a great Channel. Keep up the good work.
Now tell that to the corn growers and their politician/lobby buddies who made sure that there's a market for their product.
Robert Warke that’s about the amount of usage platinum spark plugs wear out anyways. Use iridium if you want longer service life.
Iridium plugs have their own set of issues.
1 being the hight cost, and 2 they have more resistance in them.
How can California sell E0 gasoline again without adding MTBE?
E85 and the ethanol blends are really good for building race cars on the street but other than that I avoid it and try to use regular mid grade. It’s sad half of our gas has Ethanol in it. It calcifies and build up on everything inside the engine, especially if you have a car or truck with a Carburetor. You take apart your Holley Double pumper amd you’ll find blue calcium like deposits all over the secondaries and the bowls
Personal experience: Having dealt with various carb issues previously, I've been using strictly non-ethanol 91 in all my small engines, both 2- and 4-cycle, for about four years now - mower, snowblower, power washer, grass trimmer, chain saw, leaf blower, etc. I don't use any fuel stabilizers and have had no carb issues with any piece of equipment since I switched. (mower is 11 years old, snowblower is 27 years old).
Thanks for sharing.
Do you have experience with 2-stroke oil and ethanol? I heard that not all brands of 2-stroke oil likes high % alcohol gas mixtures.
I have noticed powerloss in some small sidevalve engines when using E-mixes. My old redblock volvos are on the other hand loving 50-50% 95octane and E85.
@@secularnevrosis Well, yes. I used to use regular grade fuel with ethanol in everything, 2- and 4-. Used to gum up my old grass trimmer. I contacted Stihl, Honda, etc. manufacturers and asked re using 91 octane non-ethanol, they said no problem. I haven't had any issues using it in 2-stroke, and the leave blower especially gets a lot of use, 12 months, because I use it to blow light snow off walks and cars besides yard work the rest of the year.
This would probably get expensive for car use
That’s such a waste of money but you do you I guess
You are a pure genius, the testing methods, your video production are first class.
I worked in a car dealership the ethanol attacks rubber orings and leaves sediment, burns cooler there fire reducing vehicle fuel efficiency by typically by 10 percent.
I also worked as a small engine tech, customers would bring in the outdoor equipment, it loses power, won't start, etc.
I learned ethanol settles and breaks down after 30 days.
I would find white powdery substance or looked like snot, used brakekleen blew it the passages and cleaned the fuel bowl.
Steam the carb then run bread tie in the ports.
Reassemble test and done. Asked the customer if used ethanol? They use ethanol in everything never have a problem.
At the dealership I worked at and my friend another the service advisor ask where do you get your gas or do you use ethanol?
He would tell them try using brand name gas station and switch to regular gas.
Will give you gas card if no difference.
They thanked him.
When gas hut 5 a gallon here I used ethanol I paid the price, my Silverado with tuned 5.3 started losing power going up hills or long inclined felt jerking sensation.
My winter beater Buick and for fun Cadillac the same.
My toy 83 monte with 454 filled up with ethanol as left the station it fell on its face.
My Nova SS with high strung 406 small block pinged horribly.
Live and learn.i know I use it in everything runs fine I bet.
Thank you for the bideo
I use ethanol-free gasoline in my lawn mower because there’s less risk of it drawing water from the air. I’ve had problems with carburetor internal corrosion when I’ve left ethanol-containing gasoline in a lawn mower over the winter. But more recently I’ve been completely draining the fuel tank and running the engine until it clears the carburetor, before stowing the lawn mower for winter.
Thanks for the very informative practical test you’ve shared!
You are welcome!
PF- I'm an old dude and I gotta tell ya that was one of the best all round mechanical video's I've ever had the pleasure of watching! Nice brisk pace! Thank You, you kept informed all the time what you were doing and what was going on, solid common sense and no nonsense, really professional, and I felt totally confident of all your results and conclusions! Bang on, and that Electric Start was comical too !!! Please keep making your video's!
Thanks so much, will do!
Nice generator, Project Farm has cool toys. 4% better fuel efficiency is exactly as expected: ethanol has ~60% of the heat energy per volume compared to gasoline. So E10 with 10% ethanol has 96% the heat energy of pure gasoline per volume. And ethanol free E0 gas has a much longer shelf life. For all occasional use engines, E0 ethanol free seems a smarter idea.
Great point. Thank you
Would like to add the reason why non ethanol fuel is better for storage in an engine that doesn't see regular use.
Mentioned in the video, ethanol is hydrophilic, it mixes readily with water. Condensation that happens naturally allows some water into a carburetor which can lead to a hard start/no start condition, depending on the ethanol mix, humidity, how long the fuel sits, and other things. Ethanol fuel in a car isn't nearly as harmful to a car than it is to small engines. Modern cars typically use plastic fuel tanks that don't rust and don't have a big float bowl with parts that can rust when exposed to water for long periods of time.
Obviously, if you're consuming all the fuel before it has a chance to sit and be contaminated by water, not an issue, but it's often best to drain the float bowl and block off the fuel into a carb before long term (couple months or so) storage to prevent potential damage and make it easier to start when taken out of storage.
@@Bigggy172 Except Octane is set by grade at the pump E10-E15 at 87 octane is just that 87 octane. They adjust the Gasoline/Ethanol mix to hit the target Octane, so the added Ethanol doesn't ad in detouring detonation. There is also the fact that the Straight gas is 91 Octane, the higher the Octane the less BTU's their are to use. These means that if you can find 87 in straight gasoline, you can see a larger improvement in fuel efficiency. As low octane Gasoline has more BTU's in them.
Here in south Florida, ethanol-free has caught on for boat engines, as most aren’t used daily and it’s always humid. Definitely even better for home lawnmowers (wouldn’t matter as much with a lawn care company’s).
Yes its a nice 420 capable generator...
Did you ever get around to doing the long term test of ethanol fuel vs non ethanol on plastic and rubber components? It's been about 3 years now.
I was looking for that as well
Ethanol will eat rubber over time.
@@darkdestroyer2837only on old engines not designed to run on E10
Your testing is awesome, love how you look at so many angles of testing, unbiased :)
my biggest issue with ethanol is, they use lower oct gas, put 10% corn fuel in it, and charge ya the same price. so your getting cheaper gas but paying the same for it.
Thank you!
You're exactly right. You're paying top dollar for watered down fuel that gives less BTU'S per combustion cycle than real gas. Plus it attracts moisture, corrosion and attacks all the rubber and plastic parts of your fuel system. The only one's who benefit from corn fuel is the government, the farmers and the oil companies. The consumer is getting shafted at the gas pump.
But you are saving the planet!
thats the idea... just another rip off.
The price is not the same, pure gasoline is much more expensive, if gasoline were 50 % alcohol, the price of gas would be $1.00 cheaper per gallon, alcohol does not always have to be made from corn either
I deliver fuel in New York to gas station and when I deliver that 85 It’s always about 2000 gallons to the station so I put it in the same compartment and the seals wear out on my discharge valve because of that I have five of them on my Tanker And it’s always comparment number three that the seals we’ar out on
Great information! Thank you
because the seals are the incorrect compound ......its not rocket science
@@Jordanklawler obviously you don't know shit about tanker trucks. You don't just go to home depot and buy different seals. Everything to do with petroleum distribution is highly standardised. You use the seals that are designed for the valve. They are prob buna n or ptfe which are supposed to be acceptable for use with ethyl alcohol.
That sucks. I hauled fuel for 1.5 years. We primarily top loaded in company bulk plants, but I did some bottom loading in imperial oil terminal. I know they would have kicked me out for 3 days if I spilled a drop, so leaky valve would be a bad deal. We don't really have e85 in Canada thankfully.
Use Viton/PTFE seals. The NBR seals DO NOT like Alcohol. It also destroys some of the older type fuel lines.
first, thank you for making these vids. they are very helpful. one place where its easy to see the difference that ethanol makes is in 2 stroke outboards. not only corrosion in the tanks but also the rubber and plastic in the fuel systems are damaged. the real problem happens when the particles make their way thru the crankcase on their way to the cylinders. most shops will have a wall of 2 stroke outboards waiting to be rebuilt. most of the symptoms follow a pattern that you can read loosely based on time and amount of ethanol. I tell anybody who brings me one to work on that if they can afford me working on it then they can afford the better fuel.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
I’m so thankful for the tedious and focused work you do to answer serious questions that make a difference in our lives.👍❤️
I appreciate that!
In Alaska ethanol blended fuel at the general pump is banned because it pollutes the waters by corroding seals/lines in marine equipment. To sell any ethanol blend it has to be at a proprietary pump and clearly labeled.
Thank you for the feedback
And AV gas (like 100LL) is pretty easy to get owing to so many private pilots.
Should be that way everywhere. We are having that crap forced on us.
Brazil has 100% ethanol fuel at every pump. A permanent competition with the oil companies. Why aren't their engines falling apart?
Even Henry Ford knew it was the way, it was his fuel of choice. Rockefeller quashed that by pushing prohibition.
Watch Pump (2014): vimeo.com/237643999
They killed an industry with Cash for Clunkers, never forget everyone involved
l like the idea of long term test and to see how the metals hold up on the carbs and tanks, thanks for making these videos, on a side note ive been using cam 2 racing fuel to see if there is a difference with that stuff, so far small engines have been doing well with that sitting in them.
Hi Mustie1, Thank you for checking out the video and thanks for the recommendation on cam 2 racing fuel. I will definitely check it out! You've got an amazing channel that I highly recommend to everyone! Best regards, Todd
You guys are great!
Two of the best channels on RUclips.
@@scdevon def. agreed
@@ProjectFarm agree I'd like to see some test results on cam 2 as well.cheers
You're the best, Project Farm. Please don't ever change how you do your videos. They are the only product comparison videos I trust.
Thank you!
I was using reg unleaded several years ago and I found that ever 2-3 years I was having carb issues and then at Q-Trip came out with e91 which is non ethanol premium and to this day I've had no carb issues and that's been 15 years not only I use it in my mowers but I also use it in the vehicles. Thanks for all your testing and as always be safe 👍
You are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.
QT is great. Here (in Texas) we have them and Buccee's for real gas.
I love you added an engine with efi. Well done!
Thank you! Expensive generator but worth it to get more precise results.
I'm always impressed when I watch a Project Farm video. So consistent, methodical, and concise! It's impossible not to appreciate this level of effort.
Thanks so much!
Thanks for the video. In France sp98 is almost 2€/l and E85 is 0,8€/l that's why people use ethanol instead of pure gazoline.
All of my Toyota hybrid owner friends are on 100% e85 without any pb.
Sorry for my bad english
Antoine
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Effectivement ça permet de faire beaucoup d’économies ! Nos véhicules sont quasiment tous conçus pour en recevoir avec l’aide des calculateurs électroniques…
Excellent video! Meticulous and well thought out and executed testing techniques! Thanks so much!
As a small engine mechanic, i can definitely say that yes ethanol is damaging to materials like rubber o-rings and hoses. Besides that it corrodes aluminium, rusts steel, and creates a chalky buildup that ruins carburetors.
Aaaaand..... It has a lower energy so e-10 fuel is roughly 10% less fuel efficient than straight gas and takes roughly 30% more fossil fuels to create.
We would not have ethanol mandates if Iowa was not one of the early presidential primary states
In Europe it is impossible to get gasoline with not at least 5 % ethanol. I was wondering why they made such a law, as the know well, that the production of Ethanol is ruining the rain forests. But i found the answer. :-) It is damaging the materials of the engine. That means shorter car life and more business for the car companies. So Ethanol is bad for the environment, as it shortens the car life, but its good for the companies that produce cars.
@@friedensmal Not sure if this is true or not but I have heard that the ONLY reason why we use ethanol is because of american farmers not having buyers for their corn.
@Rob Elston Ethanol doesn't take any fossil fuels to create IIRC. How does it take 30% more fossil fuels to mix gas 10:1 with ethanol? Does it take more proccessing to make it? I feel like I'm either missing something or you are just making shit up.
@@codemang87 how is the corn planted, crop maintained and harvested?? Magic?
I've been told ethanol fuel degrades seals/gaskets quicker. Maybe hoses too.
*edit* I made this comment 1 minute before the end when he said he'd check the effects on plastic and rubber parts. This guy is great!
Thanks for watching!
yes. That is why car companies will say whether their fuel systems are ethanol compatible or not. Here in Australia that can either be E10 or less common E85.
@@ianmontgomery7534 Here in the States I first started seeing E85 about a year ago, it is 88 octane instead of our usual regular which is 87. So sometimes you will see it on a price sign as 88, sometimes as 85, and it confuses people. There are warning signs on the pump telling you not to use it in small engines like mowers and boats.
Because of those warning signs, and a distrust of anything new, a lot of older guys I know from work say they will NEVER put in their vehicle. I sometimes buy it though, because it averages about 30 cents a gallon cheaper than the 87 regular. Especially a few months back when gas was nearing $5 a gallon. I'm a little distrustful of it too though, and I never put it in my truck when I'm close to empty, only when I have a quarter tank or more.
Curious to see that other video now, and whether he will use any of the E85 despite the government warning signs.
@@johns9652 Ummm.... E85 is 105 Octane John. The high-octane rating is why high boost turbo and supercharge builds use E30, to full E85.
@@mountedpatrolman My apologies if I mislabeled something, I was referring to gas that is 88 octane containing 85% gas and 15% ethanol. It has a blue hose instead of normal black, to make sure you see the difference.
I have seen signs where stations have it that label it 85 or 88 almost interchangeably. Perhaps I added the 'E' myself because it was on the pump somewhere. I guess now that I looked it up, I should have properly said E15.
Enjoyed the video, great blend of knowledge without an overdose of commentary or the look at me time keep them coming….
Thanks, will do!
Been watching your videos for a while now.
They are always informative and very well presented...
Subbed. 😄
from Australia
Thanks! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
I maybe repeat myself but here it comes again: I love what you are doing and making us other better consumer and buyer when it comes to almost everything we have an issue with! We who isnt working in the business and/or are educated in "engineer" stuff! I am a computer guy and me and my friends appreciate this so much! :D
Thanks so much to you and your friends!
Project Farm is why I now use hybrid solutions ceramic coat! My 19 year old Subaru looks fantastic and has been since application in October
Thanks for the great video report. I’ve used non-ethanol in my lawn mower & generator for several years now. The gas tanks have no rust or rust developing. Plus carb stays cleaner than before. Your videos are always well planned and unbiased. Your attention to details without using too many words is awesome. Thx again.
You are welcome!
Thanks for all your work putting some great, informative videos together. They have been a lot of help in decision making for me. In regard to ethanol gas issue, I've been driving the same car since before ethanol and can tell you that my milage dropped from 18-19 mpg to 15 when ethanol was added the gas.
You are welcome!
As always great reviews! And Merry Christmas to you!!!
Thanks! Merry Christmas!
It's better for older vehicles - the Ethanol deteriorates rubber hoses and can clog carburetors and fuel filters more easily than straight gasoline can.
Great point! I began the long-term test on ethanol in fuel. Looking forward to seeing how much damage it causes.
My grandpa got very angry when my grandma put normal fuel to my grandpa's 1955 corvet
In Finland we have 95 oct E10 and 98 oct E5. And people use the 98 with 5% ethanol in older cars without problems. They won't use the 95 oct with 10% cause they also say that the rubber parts "dissolve" parts that's clogging stuff up but i really don't know if ir is true. Would be cool to see some tests done by project farm
I tend to use E0 (Ethanol Free) in lawn equipment, for the most part (or at least before storage over the winter, it's 70¢ / gal. more than 87 E10 here.) if E10 sits for weeks or months before I use it up, it's more likely to cause problems. That seems evident by how my neighbor's mower was; it didn't stop stalling until cleaned with the slight water spray into the air intake method. He also had a clogged air filter but that was secondary to the dirty combustion chamber; it didn't run well even with the air filter off until after I cleaned the combustion chamber.
I know that my grandfather's friend on my dad's side named George, I'm pretty sure project farms remembers this since I mentioned it on one of his videos, that George uses premium non ethanol fuel for almost all of his vehicles, especially his 4 cars that he puts away in storage for the winter (October through April or may). Part of like what you mentioned, George worked as a mechanic, and he knew the nightmare of ethanol in fuel on in terms of storage purposes. I know george had bought me I think it was a 1987 Honda 4 trax 4 wheeler, and my parents had gotten divorced in late 2011 early 2012, well, George brought the 4 wheeler out to my dad's house and it for the most part just sat around, well, the problem was that I didn't use it that much, and the fuel was untreated, it had ethanol in it. Well, unfortunately, years later in about 2015 of 2016 or so, I started needing the choke upon for it to idle, unfortunately, I didn't really think about it at that time, but the ethanol was starting to be a problem, and coarse eventually, George and I brought the 4 wheeler out to his house, and eventually the 4 wheeler stopped running. When George and I pulled the carburetor off the 4 wheeler and pulled the carburetor apart, we found reminse of the ethanol gunk.
Pros and Cons of E0 vs E10
E0:
+More energy = higher MPG
+No phase separation = long shelf life
-- Costs more
-- Not sold in my state *** (Not once seen it being sold at any pumps in the state, but it is sold at some places)
E10
+Cheaper
+Better "tailpipe" emissions (I'd rather breathe E10 exhaust then E0 exhaust)
+Works as a very good long term engine cleaner
--Corrosive and attracts water
--Not sustainable, also funds monocrop agriculture
--Worse mileage
--Higher volatility can cause vaporlock
Great point!
Reduces Terrorist State Funding by 10%. @@ProjectFarm
@@OfficialNakatsuMegami In your dreams. Since ethanol takes almost as much energy to make as it delivers, it has no significant impact on oil imports.
It's only cheaper because you're penalized for using ethanol free fuel. It actually costs more to process ethanol and add it to fuel than it does to process regular gasoline. It's a con all the way around, and not a good one. You could cover every square inch of arable land in this country with corn to produce ethanol, it wouldn't come close to meeting the demand of switching to 100% ethanol fuels. It would barely meet the demand to supply the machinery to harvest and process it. Go ethanol free if given the option, you'll pay a bit more at the pump but less in the long run by filling up less often.
Biggest issue with gasoline storage is probably the butane in gasoline which helps gasoline ignite. over time the Butane outgasses leaving the gasoline depleted of butane. Thus making it harder to start you engine.
When I’m at the pump, I usually get the cheapest fuel, which ends up being ethanol10. What most people don’t know is that, although you spend less money on the fuel today, you’ll be back at the pump quicker due to a loss of efficiency. The price and efficiency determine if its worth getting the cheaper fuel. Great video!
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Where I am, the cost of non-ethanol gas far exceeds that of blended. If it only cost 4% more, I would use it every time.
E85- $3.80 25-27 gas mileage
E15- $4.60 28-30 gas mileage
E10- $4.80 29-31 gas mileage
E0- $6.09 32-34 gas mileage...
E85 most efficient for my use
Not efficiency the efficiency adds up to be the same less potential energy is in the fuel
Maybe with flex fuel, but with e87 or even e88 the difference should be pretty negligible since it’s only 10 - 15% ethanol. I reckon you usually don’t wait until the engine is literally running on fumes to fill up so you wouldn’t even notice the difference in milage.
Ethanol needs more fuel flow to run stoichiometric (complete combustion with no excess oxygen) compared to gasoline, so E10 needs a slight increase in fuel flow. Of course the EFI engine adjusts for this with the oxygen sensor, but the carburetor on your mower engine doesn't, so technically it was running a LITTLE leaner on E10 than pure gas. That might make a difference in carbon deposits if you ran them for longer, although probably not noticeable for this short test.
"Ethanol gas makes it run hotter" can be fixed if the carburetor jetting is made richer enough to negate the leaning effect of the ethanol gas as compared against straight gasoline. Also the power loss that occurs when using gasohol with some engines,particularly if they were already calibrated on the edge of too lean even with straight gas.
Excellent! That said my main concern with ethanol use in small engines is the corrosive effect it has on carb parts, etc, as well as causing rubber gaskets etc to fail.
Thanks for watching!
In real world use in South Florida, use of E0 is a good idea if it is used in a boat motor or lawn equipment. The reason is as shown in tests. It will pull water in from the air. And that is where those engines get their corrosion. In an auto, you have a pretty well sealed tank so that unless it sits a lot, you won't get as much moisture in the system.
Now in my truck, the difference in fuels is a little more drastic. A 25% drop in MPG with E-15 vs E0. As mid-grade is 89 octane and E0 is 90 they are close. Price difference is $2.95 for E15 89 vs $3.48 for E0 90/91. 15% difference in fuel cost so it would lose there too to use E15. But if you go to Premium E15 the cost are about the same per gallon and still less MPG. Another advantage I have found is that the use of E15 leads to a sticking fuel pressure regulator while use of E0 does not.
I hope you include aluminum and zinc coated aluminum in the test as that is the source of that white solid crusty aluminum oxide that forms when ethanol sits in the bowl. Also would be a great time to do a fuel storage stabilizer comparison!
Great recommendation!
I was just making a comment on that myself, had a carb with a solid white deposit in the bowl. Good to know it isn't just me!
Thanks for taking the needed time @ 8:35
It's highly appreciated.
You are welcome!
I always enjoy your videos. You are extremely thorough and I appreciate it. Thank you
Thanks and you are welcome!
When I was in the small engine repair industry we used to have off seasons when no product would come in. Typically around the fall season, but when ethanol fuel started to become common we had constant business all with no start issues. At first we saw thousands of issues with water in the fuel with heavily corroded carburetors and fuel tanks (if the tanks were made of metal). I must have throw away hundreds of thousands of carburetors over the years that were too damaged to be fixed! Methanol fuel by comparison was basically half. Methanol wasn't much better then ethanol based fuel but atleast Methanol had a longer storage life without the use of fuel stabilizers. As time went on and especially when Tecumseh left the small engine industry (which was a very stupid move since it opened the flood gates for all the chinese junk to take over) we saw a HUGE increase in carb issues from sticking needles to leaking fuel bowls. replacing the carb just made the engine run for a few months more if the owner didn't use a fuel a stabilizer or fog the carb. As time went on I decided to leave the OPE repair business because I saw how cheaply made everything was becoming. They're basically making OPE products into throw away items these days. Even name brand stuff is becoming junk.
Thank you, there's a reason why Aviation gas does NOT contain ethanol.
@@yong62 funny you mention aviation fuel. I remember there was one guy who had a plane puller that used a Briggs engine. He'd run aviation fuel in it and that would do two things. It would make the engine overheat so badly that the plastic cam lobs would skip timing and make the engine stall out. It would also mess with the needle seat causing it to swell up and make the carb flood out and dump fuel into the engine, which would thin out the oil.
@@RobertNES816 well, I think typically aviation type fuel is much higher octane than regular fuel, regardless of the ethanol content, so I’m sure it would have problems overheating and not running right unless that engine was modified to be able to use a higher octane rated fuel.
@@spiercevaughn 100 octane low lead.
@@yong62 AV Gas doesn't need ethanol because it's got lead in it (until a few months ago there was no unleaded high octane fuel approved by the FAA)
in auitomotive fuel MTBE replaced lead (TEL) starting in the 70's, then it turned out that MTBE was contaminating soil and ground water and industry switched to ethanol because congress wouldn't give them litigation immunity for MTBE pollution.
I just got back from a 540 mile round trip. On the way to my 270 mile destination I used gas with ethanol and got 16.4 mpg. On the way home I used non-ethanol gas and got 19.5 mpg. The weather was the same, the payload was the same, traffic conditions were the same, and my air-conditioning settings were the same. Cruise control was set at 78mph on both trips. I was in Florida so elevation was the same in both directions. My temperature gauge was the same for both fuels. It kind of surprised me how much more efficient pure gasoline is.
Impressive difference in efficiency!
Paul H
You didn’t specify grade(s), brand(s), or % ethanol.
Where did you get pure gas? it a federal mandate to add %10 ethanol to gas nationwide.
@@transformer889 there are several places on the eastern shore of Maryland to buy non ethanol gas
That is a pretty stark difference. Do you think wind direction/intensity could have played any part?
Very informative video, thank you! I learned my lesson last year with my Ariens snow blower up here in Kennebunk, Maine. The carb was drained for the season, refueled with 10% ethanol gas from Sunoco and within one month it gunked up and wouldn't start. Took the carb off, cleaned it out and now only use "ethanol free" gas. Engine has more power and less exhaust fumes. Will neve use regular gas again in small engines. Also, just put my 2016 Mazda Miata away for the Winter, filled the tank with ethanol free gas. Our winters don't end until June around here. Again, great video! Thank you!
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Here in Brazil, we oar FLEX cars that can be fueled only with gasoline, ethanol, or a mixture of the two in any proportion.
Ethanol does not create carbon deposits, oil does not darken.
It can create a varnish, all parts must be treated against corrosion.
Ethanol is being used as an additive to replace tetraethyl lead
Where do you find ethanol-free gas for a car? I thought all of Cumberland and York County had to sell the corn gas. I know Bert's in Bath has ethanol free high octane. He's right on Route One drawing in people coming right off the county line from Brunswick and does good business from that.
@@skipads5141 You can get it at the Shell Station on Alfred Rd. In Kennebunk
Good point on the MX5/Miata front. Cheers.
What an excellent and very thorough video thinking of every detail, keep up the Great work!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I've purchased three Holley mechanical gas pumps for my 1967 Ford Mustang. They failed and I've got a fourth one ordered. Holley explains to me that they don't warranty any mechanical fuel pump that is used with any ethanol gasoline. That pretty much says it all.
Great information. Thank you
I think this says more about Holley than ethanol gasoline. Sounds like Holley is living in the past. Ethanol gas has been around for HOW MANY decades now? They need to up their game. They are resisting change like small engine manufacturers. And perhaps with the same planned obsolescence as their model perhaps? Auto manufacturers cracked the code on this a LONG time ago.
What is the mode of failure?
@@mikemorgan5015 Diaphram.
@@web5271 Yeah, that should be a pretty easy material change fix. It's unacceptable to produce a part that isn't compatible with 99% of the available fuel out there. Knock on wood, I haven't had a fuel pump on a vehicle fail in years. This reply is probably the kiss of death for that record. Haha!
Holley knows there are issues and had plenty of fuel pumps on test since at least 2000. Marketing was too cheap to include viton o-rings...added $0.2 too much cost to the product. Ethanol is not compatible with standard rubber seals.
Love the vibrations changing to swaying motions because of the fps on the camera, it's cool.
A lot of work goes into these videos! Great info!
Thanks!
Love the channel because he actually listens to ideas and gives real world examples the one channel who really gives viewers what they want to see
Thanks!
You should try storing gas in a sealed container and a normal container and run an engine in a year !
Thank you for the video idea!
I left E0 (Ethanol Free fuel) in my snow blower and a year later (give or take a few months) with the same fuel it started without problems. Ethanol fuel's best left to your daily driver where you use it up quickly enough, if you let it sit for weeks or months at a time unused it's more likely to cause issues.
Also buy a container of Everclear at the liquor store and see how that does after a year.
We've left ethanol fuel sitting in a gas tank for several months before yet it started up pretty easily, must've been a lot of water in it though cause the exhaust was white until we got fresh gas in
Justin Noker yea , musve been steam coming out
Excellent comparison, I'm a fairly new subscriber and this type of work is very interesting to me. I've been binge watching a good deal of your content on these cold winter days. All have been a great learning experience, especially the tool tests, being I'm a retired substation electrician/mechanic. Keep up the good work! It is much appreciated:)
Thanks, will do!
This guy is excellent!!! Been a subscriber for 2 years now.
* My 25y/o Tecumseh 8hp Sno-king snowblower runs great. Carb is clean as a whistle inside.
* I did have to replace the Carb however in year 20. Engine was surging noticeably. Why? After 20 years of vibration, the throttle-shaft had worn a slightly oblong shape into the carb body!!
* That enabled extra air to be sucked in, causing the surging.
* The carbs' internals were SPOTLESS however.
* WHY?? Because I NEVER used E-blended gas.
* The ONLY fuel my small-engines see is Top-Tier NO-Ethanol Premium from Shell or Holiday stations.
* I also add a little Seafoam EVERY time, both to the gas, AND engine oil.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
You do things just the way I like, thanks for sharing such excellent, practical research.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Too bad you can't test politicians as thoroughly.
who needs to test them,,,,,,,,,,,,,we already know that they're ALL A BUNCH OF FREAKIN' CROOKS,,,,,,,,,,,,,IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THEY'RE LYING.................THEY'RE PUBLIC SERVANTS ALL RIGHT,,,,,,,,,,,THEY SERVE THEMSELVES ...................THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO RANT...............
That would be awesome no matter which party. They are both equally guilty of something and equally as corrupt.
You don't have to test crap to know that it stinks.
That's a good idea. We run a quart of non-ethanol gasoline through each of them then a quart with ethanol. Which ever ones are still alive, we burn at the stake for being witches.
ALL POLITICIANS WILL DANCE AROUND YOUR QUESTION THEN DISAPPEAR FOR THAT MEETING ONCE THEY ARE TRAPPED IN A CORNER ...
YOU KNOW LIKE 2ND AND 3RD LEVEL MANAGERS.... REGIONAL MANAGERS, THE ONES THAT PUT $$ BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE ..
"...it's gonna take 6 to 9 months for the testing to be completed, so it's gonna be awhile before that video is done..."
Commitment of time and resources. Planning for videos way in the future. Dedication to independent testing.
That's some damn sexy Project Farm pillow talk ; )
Love how honest you are, man.
True blue indeed.
Thanks for years of great content!
You are welcome!
Thanks again. As an Amsoil Dealer this video is very educational and I'll be sharing it. I and my Brothers personally have a motor on our boat and many years ago before we started using Amsoil to deal with this issue, we had to have the carburetor rebuilt and cleaned out twice due to ethanol. Not a problem anymore of course.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for sharing!
Another excellent video I enjoyed watching from your channel! I appreciate all the effort and time you put into these vids and sharing them!
Thank you very much!
I don't know much about this type of stuff, but you explain it so well!
2 MINS LATER
Thank you!
Please tell me how you can be everywhere pleeease.
I will find you one day.
YOU HERE???
Great test thank you for showing us.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Boy do I love these videos, I’ve been slacking not watching, but started back up
Thanks!
I liked the water tests!
Ethanol fuel doesn't have as long of a shelf life as it comes from the pump. Some older or cheaply made equipment will not have fuel lines or other components that can hold up to ethanol.
Love this stuff. This is, actually, science in that everything here is testable.
Thanks!
@uncle reeler It's too bad, you don't have a brain to donate.
Another good one! Thanks for the information!
You're welcome
I was working in a small engine repair shop when ethanol started being introduced into the gasoline and the biggest thing we noticed was how fast the fuel lines got hard and started cracking. Typically we could get anywhere from 2-5 years out of them depending on the conditions they were kept in but with ethanol in the gas we noticed they would only last 1-2 years
Yes, had several weed eaters, leaf blowers, etc with those small diameter yellow lines that seem to be hard as a rock after a year. Had several crack and leak because of that also.
@@black98rt
Ethanol "dries" out the lubricants and rubbers/plastics
Great point!
Since then, manufacturers have of course added more stabilizers and additives to prevent the oxidation from occurring. Should be no issue now- just had to wait for industry to catch up.
I was working in a See-Doo shop and the ethanol destroyed the fuel systems in the PVCs. We had to replace the fuel tanks, all the lines and rebuild the carbs. Since you had to pull the motor out to replace the fuel tank this was a very expensive warranty repair. See-Doo even covered the repair if the unit was out of warranty.
I'm astonished how well put together and detailed this is. Keep up the good work and I would like to see a longer term review with identical machines running the different fuels. Well done.
Thank you
Fantastic inguinity in all tests. Great channel!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I had always heard that ethanol burned too hot for small engines. I see that isn't necessarily the case now. Thanks for all the work you put into these experiments, I've learned a lot!
You are welcome! Glad to hear!
ethanol does sometimes burn hot but thats only if your running high compression. or nitrous
Small air-cooled engines run hot at idle because of low air flow. Don't let them sit at idle. And NEVER run them at low rpm under load. Don't puts around the yard on your lawn tractor at low rpm in high gear cutting the grass. If the blades are on, run it at max throttle.
@@user-mp8er1ds9x load of bullshit DO NOT LOSTEN TO THIS FOOL OR YOU’LL RUIN YOUR EQUIPMENT!
@@user-mp8er1ds9x 😂 also air cooled means air cooled regardless 😂😂😂😂😂 it sitting there running the least hit it will isn’t going to over heat it 😂😂😂😂 how can some of you be that dumb?
PF: "Hey what are you doing?"
Criminal: "Putting sugar in your gas tank as a prank..please dont shoot."
PF: "How much you putting in..hold on let me get my notepad."
lol Thanks for watching!
Ja ja ja
NOTEPAD? .. Somehow I'd expect you to do just that. *_8D_*
The way some people drive these days I would think someone tried to put molasses in their tanks hahaha! Honestly though, it does feel like their car came without an accelerator pedal and also often no turn signals.
@Donalld Allhands Is it an old one? I know some of those are fairly quick really.
I love how thorough your testing method is. Great videos man.
Thank you
you have some of the best testing i have seen anywhere.......
Thanks!
An old one but relevant today.
Thanks Mr Project Farm.
You are welcome!
Note that the labels on the gas pumps say, "UP to 10% ethanol." I tried that water test on some regular gas at the corner market and it was 5%.
Frequently Cynical True. Depends how much they put in. They’re allowed to up to 10% to comply with oxygenation requirements under clean air act, but don’t have to go that high. I’ve noticed some stations I inspect are lower content as well.
Now a days they’re approved to sell up to E-15, usually blended at the dispenser from a separate nozzle, but I wouldn’t run that unless you have a true flex fuel system.
I got almost 20% over several tests from different (Lower tier) gas stations. There is no regulatory oversight when it comes to E% content.
At 30% ethanol is when cars start showing signs just like water in gas tank would cause.
A few years ago i read an article that the ethanol is added at the pump by the truck drive and it can very from 0% to 20% so i purchased a test kit on line and sampled gas of different grades in the same station and different stations over a few months and i found it to be true no consistency.
@@dougowens2686 The oil companies wouldn't leave it to the truck driver to make the final product! They aren't chemists. And it would require yet another tank within the tanker.
The refineries will change the percentage of alcohol based on many factors like the season, the market price of ethanol, and the market being delivered to.
Subbed. Thank you for doing these hard tests.
Thanks for watching and subscribing!
WOW - thanks for the great idea of using a drill / socket to start the lawn mower. I was just about to scrap a 90's model Snapper 2-cycle 4hp mower because the recoil starter mechanism bit the dust. Replacements are non available, and I was trying to figure out if I could retrofit a newer pull-start / cup combo. Ran into lack of measurements in most ebay auctions, etc., etc.
You are welcome!
Outstanding work! Thank you!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Loved how you conducted this test and the transparency of your methods - very well done!
Thank you very much!
If I may, @@ProjectFarm, I do have one criticism for you. Please do time lapses even with any timers active. That is my only complaint. Otherwise great video.
Good info on removing the ethanol. Thank you.
Very welcome!
You can lose up to 3 or 4 octane by doing so though.
Or leave the container open and it will evaporate and give you more gas % than ethanol. We do that with e85 and e98
Why would you do it with e85 which is basically almost nothing else than ethanol..?
@@OjStudios I think that was sarcasm lol. Leaving the container open will only get more water into the ethanol.
u do good work, ur information is very helpful
Thanks so much!
Most of my lawn care equipment have two stroke engines. I was constantly tweaking the carburetor to get the engine to run best using 100% gas. I tried a 10% ethanol blended gasoline and my two stroke engines ran perfectly without having to tweak the fuel/air mixture screws all the time. I run my pre-mixed gasoline at 32:1 in everything. I now mix 10% blended ethanol gas at 32:1. My Lawn Boy is 25 years old, so is my Homelite weed trimmer. My Poulan yard blower is over 15 years old. Everything still runs like new.
Thanks for the feedback.
I always appreciate Project Farm's objectivity. Thanks for taking the time to do the testing.
Thank you
Outstanding information as always. I always look forward to what ypu are doing next. Many have come to appreciate your work!! Thank you
Much appreciated!
Thank you very much for such a test.
You are welcome!
Good comparison here but one thing i think worth mentioning that takes place in your car and not in these engines is that ethanol blends have a different stoichmetric ratio. Modern cars will use the feed back from the closed loop system to account for the different stoich ratio or in the case of a flex fuel vehicle measure the amount of ethanol in the fuel and then adjust the fuel compensation to account for the correct afr. If you adjust the jet size on your mowers you could run a E85 setup. You will just have to increase the jet size by 30 percent. Awesome channel! Big fan
Thanks!
Can you do a video on octain boosters and what effects if any they really have on a gas engine
Thank you for the video idea!
@@ProjectFarm If you do an octane test on gas engines could you include VP 110 octane gas along side of the octane boosters. (VP 110 as the octane booster).
braindeadtiger 4297 Octane booster is just kerosene that you are paying too much for 😂
You can't do that on SV engines, you have to get an OHV or OHC engine with adjustable timing, also get a high load, then load the engine on low rpm and tune timing to just avoid a knock, then you will see results
The most noticeable effect is the $10 disappearing from your wallet.
I was very impressed by your finding of a 4% decrease in fuel economy with 10% ethanol fuel. This finding is directly related to the fact that ethanol has a BTU rating of only 77,000 / gal vs a rating of 116,000 BTUs for pure gasoline.
Thanks!
4% on a single cylinder engine. 4 inline to 6V should go up to 15% and much more cleaner combustion. The problem is it is very hard to get pure gasoline without ethanol. Here in Europe you can buy Shell Vpower 100, but it is pretty hard to believe this is a true 100octane. The only place where one can get a true 100 is on small airports where 100octane rating gasoline is used on small aeroplanes which uses true gasoline rating as there is no messing around cause of aviation security and the gasoline rating should be true.
My very unscientific study years ago when I owned a Flex fuel Chevy HHR. I was very excited that the car could run up to 85% ethanol which I thought would ease the fuel bill of 30 mile commute 95% highway miles with no backups.
That simply wasn't the case. My mileage dropped dramatically. Instead of filling up once a week I was instead filling up twice a week. The additional fill-up ended up being a wash since the ethanol cost less but I was still spending the same amount of money at the gas pump.
Performance seemed the same. But then again, it was a 4 cylinder HHR.
As for 10% ethanol in small engines. I ruined a carb in 2 years on a riding mower, a 4 stroke trimmer head, and almost lost the carb on my generator. I vowed never to use entanol in a small engine again and ran my small engines trouble free for almost 10 years until a sold them and switched to battery powered.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to make almost exactly the same comment. As a side note, I cringe a little bit when anyone says ethanol is “less efficient” than gasoline, because it sort of implies that more of its energy is wasted when used, when the reality is that it simply contains less energy to begin with. I usually describe it as having a “lower energy density” than gasoline, though it’s really clunky and the subtlety is lost on most people anyway.
@@andreo The proponents of blended fuel only look at the PRICE of blended fuels, not the QUANTITY needed to equal the work of unblended fuel. Penny wise, pound foolish. You've proven what others don't understand or want to believe.
Thanks much for your honest appraisal of this discussion.
Dean Jackson
Seattle
You are welcome!
Terrific work. We appreciate your payowla free conclusions and testing.
Thanks!
Love the videos, so thank you. I think overall your work is well done and very interesting.
Good job on having quite a controlled test with home garage setup!
With something I learn from a engine research lab, there are some point we can improve test accuracy. First is to use a known-volume container for fuel e.g. 50 cc pipet with a stopwatch to precisely measure volumetric fuel consumption, then you can convert to mass flow rate later. As your setup already have watt meters, that's a good setup to have. Then you can calculate specific energy consumption (SEC)(in g/kWh) for each test which gives you more comparable result. Although, this won't be 'brake specific energy consumption' (BSEC) because there is no engine dynamometer. But this method should significantly improve the fairness result with minor modification to existing test setup.
Will wait for the follow up test video!
Thanks for the feedback.
Good test. Job well done.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Good test. Good job. Keep on truckin'
Thanks!
I like the way you did these tests. Very thorough and informative. Well done. I'll watch more of your RUclipss.
Thank you
Just catching this video now, almost 3 years later. I recall reading something from my state (Minnesota) that went heavily into ethanol right away (helped raise the price of corn), about your car fillups. Every third trip to the gas station, you are supposed to use non-ethanol fuel to clear out the gumminess caused by the ethanol in the lower octane grades. I didn't think about this before, but no wonder I've had a lot of trouble with my small gas engine snow blower the past few years.
Thanks for sharing!
You shouldn't use ethanol gas in small engines period. When ethanol sits for long periods of time it collects water which is not good for these engines
I helped an older Mechanical Engineering student, a Professional in his early 30s win a DOE contract for small entities develop alt fuels.
First of all, in the late 70s, Ethanol had significantly less Btu/ gal than gasoline. We used a Bosch fuel Injector to inject the fuel, fuel/ethanol, fuel/water, fuel/ethanol/water. We injected measured amounts from Graduated Cylinders modified to be be filled from the top , exit the bottom, controlled volume, rpm, time and road grade all taken into consideration. We built the Electronic Fuel Injection System Controllers, which we hooked up to an Oscilloscope and matched our fuel injection based on the calculation of RPM and Injector flow rate controlled by the throttle linkage. My friend was 31, I was 19. 1978.
We preceeded the modern mixtures. We ran a 4 cylinder Ford Pinto and a 6 cylinder Chevy Monza.
Much learned, good time had by all.
I should add that when converted to Btu, there was no difference in the amount of Energy to go a given distance. Gasoline was 114,000 Btu per Gallon, Ethanol / water, Gasoline, Methanol / water, Gasoline ran less and, thankfully, everything followed the Laws of Thermodynamics. It takes y amount of energy to a move a mass x distance. The best one could ever hope for is to break even... the First Law of Thermodynamics.... the Second Law is, you will never break even.
Thanks for sharing.
Nice job .. explained and reported in a very easy way.
Thanks!
Once again showing that you're one of the most credible channels on RUclips with your unbiased and very informative testing. I am thankful for your Channel :) I find myself questioning certain things and I instantly think of you and I will keep up the suggestions !
Thank you!