How Much Ethanol Is There In E10 Petrol Gasoline - BP Shell & Esso
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- #petrol #fuel #gasoline
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Remember when E10 fuel was introduced. It was billed as being a solution to our environmental needs, in reality, it's a half arsed effort that involves some fancy labels. If I'm honest, E10 petrol isn't all it's cracked up to be with the promise of a reduced Miles per gallon (MPG) count and accelerated wear on nearly all of your vehicle components.
But........ what if E10 petrol, wasn't E10 at all... It's always about the wording... maybe these fuels have less ethanol than we've been told making the "less MPG" and "Increased wear" claims redundant.
We're going to find out because science.
Please note, little to no science is used in these productions. 
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Would've been interesting to see E5 as a comparison, wonder if they use the same amount of ethanol in both E5 and E10.
If the Esso only had 2%, could that be classed as E2 ?
Needs a better test method to really tell. We blend the fuel as close as we can to the 5 or 10%
Not really. A lot of super unleaded fuels have no ethanol.
@@qasimmir7117 But they're labelled as E5, would be interesting to see if they're actually at 5%, or closer to 0 like you say.
@@qasimmir7117 only Esso Supreme+99 has 0% ethanol 😊👍
Here in the States, E10 is being pushed. The ethanol they're using is made mostly from corn. Problem is, this means corn production is being diverted to making ethanol, and not sold for either animal feed and/or food. Which makes corn more expensive, and makes food more expensive
USA subsidies farmer who grown corn. Just like how they told fda to the increase amount of grain and wheat section on the food chart .Or how they bought unsold milk turned in to cheese and spent a decade trying to find ways of sell it on . Eventually they figure they could put cheese in pizza crust and sold idea and package the idea as a heavy alternative. All to keep some Land owner happy.
It's almost like governments don't actually care what happens so long as it makes them look good for that days morning news
@@mrcaboosevg6089 its pretty typical. Government puts a committee togethethe, committee desides on some hairbrain idea, they mandate it, the idea turns out to not work as tbought and its essentially a failure but rather than withdraw the idea they double down on it and create another idea to try and fix the problem caused by the first idea. Constantly pouring more money into a failed venture.
Can we really trust what anything says on the tin anymore?
Seems not!
I thought the reason so much corn was grown in the US was because of a govt subsidy initiative back in the 50's of 60's. There was no market for all this extra corn and hence the manufacturers turned it into corn syrup which is used in place of sugar in processed foods in the US and is now blamed for the obesity epidemic. That obesity is probably more likely caused by overeating and lack of exercise aside, using corn to power vehicles instead of directly making people fat probably is no bad thing.
Would be interesting to see what the ethanol content in supermarket fuels is in comparison to the big brand fuels
that would be very interesting
ruclips.net/video/ZkTrdE9JAhA/видео.html
Tesco, Morrisons, Asda & Sainsburys would be a good comparison
especially if you averaged the results from 3 locations (for each brand) over a 3 week period (to ensure different deliveries/batches)
They don't blend their own gas, so find out who the supplier is.
It'll be the same as everyone else
It depends where you buy the fuel as the companies do exchanges and throughput deals so they could all come out of the same tank. Most fuel in the Southampton area would be Esso, around Manchester Valero (texaco) and scotland Ienos, formerly BP. Supermarket fuel is exactly the same but usually little or no additive. BP fuel isn't necessarily made by BP and it's the same for everyone else. Only the additives are unique to the brand. We blend exactly 5 or 10% ethanol in as we load the truck as there is a renewable fuels obligation to meet. Fun fact, the fuel is incomplete until the ethanol is added to boost the octane so the base oil blendstock is known as BOB and super UL is SuperBOB
At last a comment from someone who appears to have some knowledge of the distribution system. I've worked in fuel distribution for over 30 years, I've given up responding to stories like this because there is so much uninformed opinion and in my experience most people simply don't want to know the truth they are are more interested in conspiracy theories promoted by videos like this. A recent video on this channel tried to link fuel pump accuracy to brands, that is so wide of the mark as to be laughable, but some people want to believe it.
Is it a bird, is it a plane, no, it's superBOB!
How interesting, well its great to see someone who actually knows what they are talking about. I use Esso synergy plus as im told by Esso that it currently has no ethanol in it. As my bike sits for a few months during winter i like to assure my self that it will help reduce the rate that my tank rusts from the inside out.
Yes, agreed, I worked for BP for twenty years with a couple of those spent in the exchanges unit.
Thank you Eddie and Jeta. I've been aware of this for sometime now, however I've never come across much explanation for supermarket fuels additives being less than the brand's. My understanding is that part of the additive package will boost octane, although ethanol does that too. So I guess the bare minimum octane booster is added.
One thing I've noticed is that these additives do make a huge difference in my old diesel car, Asda and shell diesel started the car very badly with smoke, while Esso and BP and Sainsbury's started just fine. My Petrol car doesn't appear quiet as fussy.
Interesting. Would you consider repeating that test with e5/premium fuels? (Hah, you just suggested that as the video rolls out, here you go then!). Or maybe the same test but with a selection of supermarket fuels?
From personal experience, I've having both a car and a motorbike, if I don't use one of them for a while with e10 fuel it runs a lot worse with lower MPG than for a similar time (and weather) period with e5. So many variables though! Keep up the great work, it is appreciated :)
There is a channel called Fuel Reviewer that has already done it
Another thing to be aware of is that you have to do the testing with fresh fuel as Ethanol is hygroscopic and so will absorb water from the atmosphere, especially on damp/high humity days.
I too would like to see the results with supermarket petrol as that’s all I buy these days.
Me too, but diesel. I seem to get the best mpg from Morrisons diesel.
It all comes out of the same tank. Only the additives are different
The absorption of moisture from the air isn't even worth considering here, would need to be left out for a long time before there would be a noticeable difference in volume
Don’t forget that the fuel will have been sitting in a vented tank at the petrol station, so it could already have absorbed water, even if it was “fresh”.
My car service garage told me it is better to use supermarket fuel as the turnover, ie replenishment of the storage tanks, is higher so there is less time for water absorption. I too get better mileage with Morrisons diesel.
I’m a chemical engineer, so I know a bit about these things.
There are two issues with the method you have used:
1. If you mix x mL of one liquid and y mL of another, miscible, liquid, the volume of the mixture is often less than (x+y) mL. Volumes are not exactly additive.
2. Not all of the ethanol will dissolve in the water. There will be an equilibrium between the ethanol content of the petrol and that of the water. This is known as partitioning. Actually, a very small amount of the petrol will dissolve in the water, and water in the petrol, too, and the ethanol makes these solubilities a bit higher than they would be for pure petrol and water. This gets quite complicated if you want to do accurate measurements and calculations.
So your test will tell you which petrol has more ethanol in it, but the exact numbers you got will underestimate the actual amount of ethanol in the fuel.
If you want more accurate numbers, the best way would be to talk to a university chemistry department and get them to measure the ethanol content by gas-liquid chromatography or similar. You might be able to persuade them to do it as a student project.
An interesting point is that ethanol has a higher octane number than petrol, so using ethanol in petrol means that the oil companies wouldn’t need to use some much of the other octane-enhancing additives. This will give an environmental benefit in making the fuel, as well as reducing CO2 from combustion of the fuel in use.
Jerry2357 thanks for the science. Im a small engine mechanic and what you say about the small abosrtion of water into fuel increased by eth’ i totally agree with. Pre e10 fuel with water in made engines run almost rich sounding which i thought may have been the H and O creating more “fuel”, this richness has increased with the e10.
Would the higher eth’ increase absortion rate? ie shortening the life of fuel faster. As i see petrol being unuseable alot faster than yrs ago.
@@sharkeyist Do all the cool kids call it eth'?
I wonder how much of the additives might precipitate out of the fuel solution and into the water? I agree with your idea jerry2357, to an 'independent chem test' for the low and high octane fuels.
@@ericbrenenstuhl6039 That's an interesting thought. I used to do a bit of work with a company that makes fuel additives, and the chemistry is quite involved. (I don't remember any of the details, to some extent I deliberately forgot them to not inadvertently infringe their confidentiality.) But I think that some additives would possibly partition into the water layer. And the detergents would collect at the water-petrol interface, although the quantities present will be small.
Well done! The other issue relating to brands and delivery companies etc is that it is not necessarily directly related to the on-sale brand name. I think the mixture of ethanol is done quite soon before delivery - not at the refinery itself. So the output from one of the (small) number of refineries can end up being quite different geographically, as well as seasonal variations.
All one can say is that he’s right to point out that E10 is a top limit, not necessarily a target.
I’d expected lots of comments from chemists saying your methodology was invalid/unreliable/wrong/bollocks etc, but very few such. So you have passed the youtube comments test with flying colours. Well done!
Be good to see some of the supermarket fuels @ E10 and also lets see the E5 versions too, this is all VERY interesting
Supermarket fuels come from the same distribution depot as the main brands. Shell and the other majors dont refine their own, they purchase from the nearest distribution depot no matter who owns it. The drivers add the various additives.
Fuel like corned beef is simply a retail exercise.
The Southampton refinery however, does not add ethanol simply because it has a direct line to Heathrow its biggest customer, who want only ethamol free fuel.
@@anthonycoatesstocktonMG Jet fuel (JET-A1) doesn't have ethanol in it. It's closer to kerosene or diesel than petrol. Most filling station deliveries come from the same tanker, stored in the same tanks (diesel excepted) and the mix is blended at the pump. Piston-engined aviation fuel (AVGAS) is pretty much petrol, with a high-level of anti-knock additives, which includes tetraethyl lead. Yes. Leaded petrol. Aviation fuel is special because the combustion at high altitudes, with low temperate air is quite different to ground level, and many piston engines still in aeronautical use were designed over half a century ago.
@@anthonycoatesstocktonMG So it will be interesting to see if that stacks up in some real tests 🙂 Interesting you say Southampton does not add any Eth to the mix due to it being Heathrows supplier so does that mean fuel along the south coast is likely to be more Eth free than thos oooop norf ?
@@PhoneVidoes possibly, certainly from what I can remember being called Fawley.
ruclips.net/video/ZkTrdE9JAhA/видео.html
Just to point out that you can actually use this method to remove all the ethanol before you put it in your car in the first place - put the petrol in a big tank with a tap at the bottom, drain the water/ethanol mix out the tap at the bottom. Enjoy your ethanol-free petrol. It does mean you can't put it directly into your car anymore, but it's better than your classic slowly being destroyed from the inside.
Enjoy knocking lol
A shot of octane booster after removing the ethanol will be needed. It does seem a backward step that we have to formulate our own fuel these days!
Esso Supreme is sold as E5 but apparently has no ethanol at all
Ethanol is used to raise the octane number to prevent knocking. Not to mention you are dumping energy away otherwise couldn't been burned. There is also a chance that you may remove the fuel additive in the petro that's designed to prevent carbon build-up. I totally see what you mean, nothing against you. I just wanted to point out some potential flaws.
@@hillppari Vehicles with an engine built or designed pre WWII or early 1950's will happily run on unleaded fuel as leaded was only introduced to the public post war, mid 1950's onwards, may have to retard the ignition a degree or so to manufactures static setting. A lead replacement additive can be added to fuel for high compression later engines that have not been modified. Engines designed to run on 101 octane have been a headache for owners since that was discontinued last century. Just keep well clear of any ethanol.
Very interesting to see the actual % in your samples. When E10 came out my immediate observations when used in my 2009 Triumph Sprint 1050 were
1. Fuel gauge would only read 80% despite the tank being brimmed.
2. Slightly rougher running
3. About 10% drop in mpg
Switched to e5 and all of the above went away. When i had to use e10 due to no e5 being available, the problems returned immediately so i now use e5 exclusively
fuel gauge decided to measure weight instead of volume?
@NoNameAtAll2 I think it's due to e10 having a different density so maybe the tank float isn't rising so much
@@NoNameAtAll2 The little bit of cork on a swing arm operating a potentiometer is actually buoyant on the fuel. If the fuel is less dense then it won't float as high. Heck this could be a measure of how much energy you're putting in your tank, maybe it's only 80%.
My '97 106 will rev randomly with E10 and also stall if left idling, so never putting that in again... however less petrol stations offer E5 now
@@MacBob Ethanol is slightly denser than petrol, so you'd expect the float to rise _higher._ Also, the difference is very small: the nominal density of petrol is 0.74g/ml, whereas ethanol is 0.79g/ml. So even the difference between pure petrol and pure ethanol is only about 7%, which is far less than the observed 20%. The density difference between pure petrol and E10 is less than 1%.
A few things: the law was just a way to subsidize farmers to grow corn. Its basically a government hand out in the guise of going green. Also to get accurate test you need to discard the first 1/2 gallon from the pump. That first 1/2 gallon has left over fuel in the line from the previous customer so you don't know what they ordered. And lastly if you want fuel without e10 its fairly easy to just buy 5 gallons, add water and shake and then siphon the top off. You basically get rid on the ethanol this way. Pilots on small airplanes drain a bit of fuel before taking off to ensure they get rid of any water at the bottom of the fuel tank. Its very convenient that water and fuel don't mix. When you have a small engine, and pour e10 in it, a little moisture in the air mixed with the ethanol is notmally what blocks up the carburetor.
I've only used Super since this stuff came out. They all run better on it anyway as they're either high output or older engines that were originally designed when four star was around which was 99 octane. Great video
If you've done "ordinary" fuel and it wasn't what was expected, you surely must do "super" fuels to see if they are what is expected. or something wildly different?
Loved the Gran Turismo tune at the end.
It's a banger
I used to deliver fuel in the USA. There's 2 methods how the ethanol is blended during loading. First is "batch", if I was loading 2,000 gallons the loading rack would load 200 gallons of ethanol then switch valves then load 1,800 gallon of gasoline.
The other method is "injection". The ethanol is injected into the steam just before the meter.
The fuel in the bulk storage tanks at a loading facility do not have any ethanol or additives. Most loading facilities will have storage tanks for "regular", "premium "," ethanol, additives, and diesel. All gasoline gades and blends will load from the same "spout". There's a mass of pipes and valves that are computer controlled to load the correct product into the transport vehicle.
The loading facilities I was at would test the ethanol content every day to ensure that it was very close to 10%
If you're after exact results, you might also want to note that mixing 10ml of ethanol and 10ml of water will not result in 20ml of liquid. In addition mixing 2 x 10 ml water will be more efficient than 1 x 20 ml; and there are various percentages (it could be by weight, volume etc)
Correct. The density of ethanol is quite different from that of pure water, the ethanol being less dense than water. As an off the cuff example, I just measured by weight some 56.7% ABV whisky in a standard volume measure made for pure water at a standard temperature. 25g weight yields 30 ml volume (near enough). While the density of pure ethanol is obtainable, that of the petrol mix is not so easy - it can vary around the year. The other issue is that standard temperature adjustment (STA) can be used to compensate for weather variation.
The other minor item is that normal mains water is a wee bit less than pure water as well.
@@johnkeepin7527 This has nothing to do with weight or density. It's simply a fact about mixing given _volumes_ of water and ethanol. However, it's not a significant source of error. Mixing a quantity of water and a quantity of pure ethanol results in a volume shrinkage of up to about 2%. That's an error of the same magnitude as measuring a volume of about 25ml to the nearest 0.5ml, which is the best you can do with a measuring cylinder.
Very much depends on which refinery you're near. ESSO for example used to say:
"Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is ethanol-free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol."
But now it says "We currently supply an ethanol-free Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded in some parts of the UK. From September 2023 our Synergy Supreme+ 99 will transition to contain up to a maximum of 5% ethanol at all Esso pumps irrespective of which part of the country they are located."
I believe that it's the Fawley refinery that supplies the Ethanol free E5 and Stanlow that supplies E5 with Ethanol.
Anyway, I would be interested in the same test for super as well as (if you can) work out which refinery the fuel comes from (purely for curiosity!)
Ethanol addition is a way of supporting the US agricultural system as they produce huge amounts of the stuff at the farms owned by the BIG. Corporations, the little farms do not seem to get a look in. Ethanol in petrol grabs the water from the atmosphere and will rust out you steel fuel tanks and all the metal bits downwind, eat your zinc cast carb and everything else when the stuff evaporates leaving white powder and grit in the jets and carb body.. I need to drain down all my saws and other equipment of it might not start again in a couple of weeks. My car is diesel and that is far more stable fuel.
You might even find the two types E5 and E 10 are exactly the same mix??????
yep, spot on
Please note that that the content of Ethanol in fuel will change depending on climate, season, market prices & producer.
Typically in winter there will be lower Ethanol content, same with market prices. Each produce may refine the fuel in different concentrations, or be using blended batches - this is the same with fatty acids in diesel.
ASTM D5599 is the main method used, although I'm not sure about commutative methods.
Great continuation of the fuel story arc. Please test the super unleaded, interested in tesco 99 and V power.
Seeing that birds custard packet brought back memories. We live in Banbury and my mum ( just like a huge percentage of Banbury folk) worked at general foods which made everything from nescafe coffee to blancmange as well as custard. Sadly the factory is past its best days.
My understanding is that Esso Supreme 99 E5 doesn’t even have ethanol in it. But - it varies from north to south in England.
It would indeed be interesting to see some comparisons.
Keep up the great work
Esso promote it to porsche club members as no ethanol for most of the uk e5 being where they have delivery logistics issues, Cornwall for sure is e5 😊
I have two 1950 vintage 32cc powered pushbikes. I use aviation gasoline in them, which is still leaded, as they do not like ethanol, and do like leaded fuel. The Ethanol in petrol is hygroscopic, it will slowly absorb atmospheric water.
Great video. Keep up the good work!
One thing I would like to point out. Do not rely on the volume change to find out the ethanol content. A better way would be separate out the water, then weigh the mass gain.
In general chemistry, mixing 100ml of water and 100ml of ethanol does not give you 200ml of solution. Search "volume reduction of water ethanol mixing" for more info.
Another thing. Petro has more than just various types of hydrocarbons(octane etc). It also contains a small amount of additives to clean the engine. Different brands may use different chemicals and I'm not sure how much is in there, or if they are water soluble.
Hence the water phase not being transparent, it got more then just ethanol and water in it. let alone some water actually getting into your fuel phase due to slightly polar hydrocarbons present. A dash of soap would help I'd imagine.
Heck if you want to truely nitpicky, in colder times they would highten the amount of smaller hydrocarbons to keep the fuel liquid and as such the already tiny amount of water dissolved into your fuel hightens even more (thou doubtfully visible on a 100mL scale).
This^
@@onbekende07 Adding soap would help the petrol dissolve in the water, so that will make everything worse.
Volume change is good enough: it's about a 2% error. That's the same error you get when measuring about 25ml of liquid to the nearest 0.5ml, which is what he's doing here (arguably, he's only measuring to the nearest ml). To be clear, by a 2% error, I mean 2% of the measured volume of ethanol, not two percentage points on the final result. So his measured 6ml of ethanol in the Shell petrol corresponds to somewhere between 5.9% and 6.1%. Or about 5.8% to 6.2% if you include the error from the precision of measurement.
I've tested E10 in various cars from a simple 1.1 saxo to larger engines such as a Peugeot 5008 THP and a 206 GTi. Every car I've used it in has been noticeably down on power and MPG. I only ever use V-Power or Momentum now
Well, as ethanol only has around 70% of “the bang” of petroleum, and E10 increases the fuel’s ethanol content by a further 5% over E5, its not rocket science to calculate that your engine will now produce around 1.5% less torque than it would on the previous E5 standard 95 fuel. This is roughly equivalent to driving around with a 20kg sack of potatoes in an otherwise empty Golf. Unless you’re on a racetrack using sustained full throttle, it can only be your perception though that the car is “notably” slower.
However:
What actually happens in modern engines (unless it’s an ultra-high-performance engine specifically tuned to optimally run only on Super I.e. European 98 RON) is that the car’s fuel management computer compensates for this loss of available power by simply burning more fuel to maintain the same power output level, hence motorists will see a 1.5% reduction in economy instead.
This does more or less defeat the objective of E10 though, as the politicians stupidly believed that overall emissions would be notably reduced. Which they’re not because there’s a carbon-cost to producing the bio-ethanol and now our car engines are all working that bit harder!
It's not just pre-2000. I drive a 2015 focus, and E10 ALWAYS causes it to flash up the check engine light for emissions. That takes weeks of running on E5 premium to go away, and ends up producing more emissions as I thrash the engine to clear the sensors.
Excellent, I had heard that Esso has a low Ethanol content except in certain areas of the UK (Esso did tweet something along these lines). On E10 my old classic Merc runs rougher and my wife Yaris does less MPG... around 3 MPG less to be precise. Hence, I'm sticking with Esso 99. Please test the super unleaded fuels as well as other area of the UK!!
We are just getting this in Ireland. What MB have you? I've a 123 just put e10 plus wynns e10 additive in the other day, just done about 5 miles so far.
@@solsol1624 I have a 1990 W201 190E, I haven’t tried the E10 additive - that might be a good alternative. At the moment sticking with E5 super/99 as the price gap to unleaded has narrowed a bit.
@@Lot76CARS I believe that once the current stock of e5 is gone we will just have e10 so no choice for me. Are you in the owners club? I started a thread on the forum, worth a look for you. Think you have the KE Jetronic? I've got the older K.
@@solsol1624 I’m in the MB Club so I’ll check the forum.. I wrongly assumed E5 would be available almost everywhere!
@@Lot76CARS good stuff. I posted in one of the general sections, if you can't find it let me know and I'll check for.
Never thought I would be pressing like on a video about fuel ethanol content...and yet here we are.
Would love to see more testing like this.
All this captures is the varying amounts of alcohol added to fuel deliveries made at different times. Since the fuels were purchased in the same area they are most likely from the same supplier.
Basically by changing it to e10 we get less for our money and the companys make more money, end of story.
1:50 always fill gas canisters on the ground and not while holding in your hands mid air. This is to avoid electro static charging (due to the moving in the canister) of your fuel which can cause a spark and then ignition.
It would be very interesting if you drew samples from various filling stations on your travels, and did multiple samples for averaging between batches as you say. The disparity in the three samples here is quite surprising! It would also be interesting to see, as you accumulate data, whether premium vs standard fuels from the major suppliers are consistent in their ethanol percentages. Great video.
I worked as an electrician at a North West refinery. One day i had a job on the fuel tanker loading gantry where all the different 'makes' were loaded and had the additives injected (Shell, BP, Asda, Texaco, Esso etc) I asked the operators if any of the fuel was ethanol free. I was told that only the 97 ron petrol had no ethanol in it so I started putting BP Ultimate in my rather problematic Buell which, if left unused for more than a couple of weaks wouldn’t start without removing the spark plugs and heating them up, even then it often needed new plugs and if it had been monthsm a carb strip / clean. After I started putting only BP Ultimate 97 ron fuel in, I could leave it for months and it'd start no problem.
Keep in mind this isn't the case at every uk refinery and this conversation happened probably 5 years ago...Buell still starts though and I still only use 97 ron 😉
I tested the Premiums of Shell and ESSO about 4 years ago, ESSO was 0% and Shell was 5%, Ive been meaning to redo it since the change so I would be interested in the results.
Esso is dependent on the location. The nearest to me have ethanol meanwhile one 5 minutes further is ethanol free. That’s for the synergy fuels
Any idea what Tescos is?
Would love to see this same experiment with super unleaded petrol. Great video.
Yeah I'm working on it.
All petroleum is tracked and comes from the same refinery. However the fuel companies such as BP, Esso and Shell (Other fuel companies are available) add their own mix before it leaves the storage location to it's petrol station forecourts.
It would be very interesting if you did the Premium Fuel test to see if there's a difference at all?? 🙂
not tracked
@@user-jt5vm3mi1w And not from the same refinery, either.
Where I live in the US, "up to" 10% ethanol is mandated by the EPA. Pretty sure it's actually 10% in the winter, when the gas mileage really goes down the tubes. It's not so bad for the "summer blend", though.
If you decide to test multiple sites, remember that sites located close together may be served by the same filling company, resulting in the same petrol being put into the tanks from the delivery truck. Try sites that are geographically distant.
Yes please. Would love a comparison test on E5 fuels
I lost about 25% MPG using E10,more economical to use superunleaded
Then you drive a really bad car.
@@NoNameForNone Nope. Ethanol has less calorific value. Learn the basics.
@@NoNameForNone Correct :)
@@ds1868 While that is true, the actual difference in energy content in a litre of E10 petrol vs E5 petrol is miniscule. The consumption goes up by something like 0,7%.
but.. superunleaded is more expensive
Thanks Jon. I found this very interesting. You've explained a complicated subject in very clear simple terms.
Would also be interesting to see supermarket fuels for comparison. My car always feels more sluggish after filling up with supermarket fuel compared to branded fuels (Esso, BP, Shell etc)
ruclips.net/video/ZkTrdE9JAhA/видео.html
Thank you for the informative video, but if I can help it, I won't be using E0 ethanol-free gasoline ever again. Here in Idaho (USA) we have both ethanol-free aka E0 and E10 gasoline available to us. E10 was introduced here about 15 years ago, from what I recall. I own a 2000 model Kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R sportbike, which I purchased in the summer of 2008 in bone-stock condition from a seller in the San Francisco Bay Area (California). So the only fuels its ever known have been oxygenated RFG. When I filled up with E0 for the first time on Dec 21, 2020, my bike's 19 liter tank was down to its last few liters. I had done this purposely so that the content of E0 to E10 would be almost pure oxygen-less ethanol-free E0. I wanted to experience the full performance advantages spoken about on RUclips, better power and greater range from running ethanol-free gasoline. 8% better fuel economy and more horsepower? Booyah! Get me some of that! Within about 3 miles of filling up, what it takes for my sportbike to pump the fuel tank's new gasoline cocktail into the fuel system, the results were unmistakable! At the end of the ride I filled up with hastened anticipation to see my 8% reward, after already having years worth of E10 MPG numbers to drawn upon. Heck, I thought, I might be in the 10% better fuel economy range, with how steady I rode today!! I was shocked at what I found after running the E0 gasoline. So I went back to E10 and things returned to what I'd expected from E10. Four days later I performed another fuel test with E0, this time with an even greater percentage of E0 and at a slower average speed than before, but the result was almost identical to the first. Each run was ~160 miles virtually non-stop unobstructed over the same route, so that I would get as true an optimal hwy MPG result from each run as possible. The results turned out to be interesting experiments. Hint: every model year ZX-9R ,1994 - 2003, uses carburetors and I had no trouble riding using either E0 or E10 gasoline. Now I know that there is a difference for those of us still using carburetors with ethanol enriched E10. It's now my exclusive go-to gasoline for all of my small motor gasoline engines too, like my lawn mower and snow blower.
Yes please, an E5 comparative test would be very interesting.
Got to try this myself
Never realized it was this easy to check the ethanol content
Great video. Please test the super fuels next. Ever since they brought in E5, i have only ever run my cars on super as I'd glady pay slightly more to not have to fill up as often.
Creeping up Jon 90k subscribers now, keep on trucking or motorwaying or whatever you want to name yourself 😇, another super cool post
Yes please do a similar test for the premium fuels labelled E5. Would be great to know how they compare. I’m looking for the least amount of ethanol to use in my 32 year old car.
Great video By the way - my kind of science.
Next chapter in this series. Which brand of fuel, makes more power, in the butt dyno, and which brand doesn’t. (Car, go cart, scooter, anything that goes fast. Cause you gota go fast. Premium might be needed for the butt dyno, to get the best results.) possibly, in the future chapters, in this series. Does premium fuel make a difference in the butt dyno, we will test several modes of transport, while we take you with us on the test. and report them to you, our viewers.
Love the channel. John you are straight to the point, quick, precise, and entertaining. Three thumbs up, good job. 👍👍
As an owner of a vintage motorbike, I’d love to see more on this… Which fuel brand has consistently lower ethanol content, does E5 guarantee lower ethanol content etc etc.
Brilliant! I might do my local ones to see what can be learned.
Not that it'll make much difference, but just to note that 50ml of water mixed with 50ml of ethanol will give you about 96ml of mixture, not the 100ml that you might expect. This will have an almost negligible impact on your results
Where does the 4ml go?
I was thinking the same, but thought that I would be called out for gaslighting the video by referring to chemistry!! Besides, I bet that more than 4% got spilt on the floor..... and where is the white lab coat?
Right -- that 4% error is the same order of magnitude as measuring 25ml to the nearest ml, which nobody questions.
@@Anmeteor9663 It doesn't go anywhere: volume isn't a conserved property like mass. A mixture of water and ethanol molecules are able to arrange themselves slightly more densely than separate, pure water and ethanol.
E10 or "gasohol" has pretty much been standard in the USA since MTBE was banned (the horrific water polluter that it is). Thing is, every car sold here since about 1980 was built to run on E10. I don't know if this was a specific change made to cars shipped to the USA since they have to be modified for stricter EPA emissions anyway. The people who complain the most about E10 are boat owners and carbureted small engine device owners.
Of course now that the "blend limit" has been reached, the corn lobby is pushing for E15 to be standard. Problem is only cars built in 2001 or later have fuel system components rated for exposure that level of ethanol. Some states do allow ethanol-free blends to be sold. The stations that sell it tend to charge a hefty premium though and it isn't always the highest octane rating available.
I would love to see you test E5 too - I've noticed some of the family cars have a noticeable preference for one fuel station's (and location's!) fuel, running with fewer knocks, where some other E5 fuels, the car not only knocks, but noticeably shudders during regular running.
Nice demo! I'm liking the "Garage Workbench" series just as much as the other series' that you do.
What ya mean you'll let us do that..... that's your job, you do we watch,, that's the deal
Interesting. My 93 Eunos Roadster failed it's emissions test this year despite it only covering 1000 miles since the last one and passing the basic emmisions test for the last 6 years without issue. I'm convinced it was because I was using E10 fuel when prices were hitting £2 a litre last year.🤷♂️
Be careful about measuring volumes of water-ethanol mixtures. Mixing 20ml of water and 10ml of ethanol may actually result in less than 30mls of the mixture.
Partial molar volumes at it again
My initial thought too. However, equal volumes of water and ethanol when mixed produce a decrease in volume of about 4% so I doubt the illustration shown here would be significantly affected.
Better to measure resulting amount of petrol. Came to the comments to see if someone had asked about this. Depending on how pure the ethanol used in the fuel, the mixture should result in a smaller volume
@@cybotx1024 He's measuring a volume of 25ml to the nearest ml, which is a 4% error. Adding another 4% error on top of that doesn't make a lot of difference: we conclude that the Shell petrol has somewhere between 5.5% and 6.5% ethanol, whic his still a lot less than 10%.
Be very intetesting to see the Premium ethanol content too. Brilliant channel 👍🏻
Would definatly be interested to see the ethanol content of higher octane fuels. Would need to include Tesco's "Momentum" though because that's very popular with the boys racers.
I did watch a video testing BP shell esso and tesco momentum super unleaded in a chipped cupra. Did proper dyno runs. The guy doing it was a fan of momentum as it seems to have less variation in the quality when testing power output on modified cars, which I was quite surprised by. Sorry, I don't remember the channel.
A superb video and one I will be sharing. I have heard similar stories about greatly increased range by using super-unleaded.
Especially if you drive a petrol-hybrid vehicle, yes it’s true…!!! 👍🏾
Too much is the answer even before I watch this!
Brilliant informative video. You should have left the fuel water mix to stand for a few weeks and watch the ethanol turn to snot. Maybe set up a 24/7 webcam so we can tune in at any time of the day to see the snot forming.
Make sure you have Tesco 99 on the test for premiums as it’s the best fuel out there
Which is usually Esso
@@CairnieR what is esso? I don’t understand
@@ShalomBrother the brand of fuel, Tesco usually gets supplied from Esso.
In the US we've had E10 for over 40 years. A lot of stations have E15 and E25-30 are coming.
Ouch!
"Flexfuel" cars sold in North America and Brazil are designed to run on E75 or E85, mind; we don't have those cars in the UK. Modern cars can TOLERATE E10 though.
Be more interested to see which supermarket fuel it best to be honest!
I've tried all filling stations for My old Landrover and Chainsaws, no real consistency from any I tried. Had a goo at cleaning with the same results.
I can say for sure that Morrisons, Tesco, and Sainsburys are exactly the same.
April 2022 saw me using E10 in a 2010 Briggs & Stratton engined John Deere X145 ride on mower. It now smokes like a trooper at 400+ hours as the rings are shot, coincidence? Should have stuck to Super unleaded.
My 2001 vintage 3.5HP Briggs and Stratton Classic gives out so much smoke that no-one would ever notice the difference!
@@Mike-H_UK I've spent hours behind a Merry Tiller Titan rotavator with a 5HP B&S. Got so bad at starting that it was replaced with a one pull start Honda!
It is simply a big con. Why should we be using our land to grow corn to produce ethanol when they are perfectly capable of growing crops for us to eat, especially when we do have a shortage of grain currently due to the war in Ukraine? I suspect the companies are slowly reducing the ethanol content anyway since ethanol is expensive to source and produce.
You may be right, The less ethanol, the less cost to produce, i assume.
The depth of research and analysis you go into is staggering! Excellent vid.
EFFANOL? 'EFFIN 'ELL!
In the U.S, we've had Gasoline with Ethanol blended in since 2007.
Less MPG + Less Power.
Also now we have powerful corn farmer lobbying groups.
Happy days...
Is this how you make E0 home brew?
I dont know why but the explosion visual effects made me laugh harder than i should be.. 😂😂
Great! Finally a real professional automotive journalist has taken an interest in informing the public about real world issues! Nice one John keep up the fantastic coverage Thanks
I was at a flagship Ford garage and the mechanics were telling me, after I asked about “how’s E10 doing a couple years down the line…” they told me they are getting newer cars in years down that have burnt valves. All E10 compatible.
Us? No chance, been paying more for the E5 because I’m not stupid
in Australia we have 91 (no Ethanol ) 95 (no Ethanol ) 98 (no Ethanol ) but our Ethanol is septate and called E10 usually 94 RON
You've got suscriber from me for this. Would love to see you test a few more sites and test the supermarket fuel too.
Thanks, buddy. Very interesting, indeed.
Nice one mate, thanks for watching
The one time I'm having a good day and you didn't check in with me.
Dear Diary, my soul is crushed for reason/s I wish not to list.
-N
Ha.
Side note, You're colab video with Ringway Manchester shall be a treat, and is one I will be checking for daily. Cheers man.
Very interesting! Looking forward to seeing the follow-up results & the E5 comparison ;-)
Surprise MatPat content 😂
Interesting video. We have been discussing E10 fuels in the owners group for one of my cars recently as failures in some fuel systems had been blamed on using the higher ethanol fuel by the manufacturer.
I’d say 99% of us owners run them on super unleaded regardless of the ethanol content so would be interesting to know the results for those fuels
I'm working on the 99RON stuff. we'll see.
Hi Jon, this was a fun video, but as a qualified chemistry teacher (now retired) I do have to point out a minor flaw in the method. As some have already commented the increase in VOLUME is not necessarily indicative of the percentage ethanol - this is because ethanol and water have a very different density (and indeed molecular masses) and solution concentration, or molarity to use slightly more scientific terminology, are usually worked out using mass not volume. So the percentage increase in volume will not necessarily be indicative. I do like the idea though - and it would be interesting to see a comparison between E5 and E10 from the same service station.
I have no knowledge to say otherwise :D Is there a more reliable method of testing that an idiot like me can do?
@@AutoShenanigans Well, in essence what you did is partly right, but there is an extra calculation to "correct" for the density and molecular weight effects.
The trouble is it isn't really possible to do it in a way that makes for a good entertaining video - it is kind of like adding a fiddle factor, that you multiply by, at the end to correct for the resultant discrepancy.
The good news however is that the relative ratios that you found will be largely unaffected - so the Esso DOES still have less ethanol than the Shell, it is just that the headline overall percentage will be wrong.
Without actually doing the calc my guess would be that we would find that the Shell petrol is actually bang on the declared 10% while the Esso is more like 4% and the BP about 7%
@@jennyd255 Please let me know the calculation.
Excellent work, I honestly though the ethanol content would be higher than 10 because fuel companies, but there we go I was wrong.
A very informative and educational video. Thank you 😊
I’m not sure what I just learned, but I know I learned something.
Shake shake boom! Cracked me up!
Also, would defo like to see the premiums tested!
The FUEL THEORY pun was awesome 😂😂
There’s a very colourful quantitative method that might show how much ethanol is in each sample of unleaded. There are colour changing dyes that respond to how polar the mixture is. I tested ethanol and a mixture of octane and ethanol. There was definitely a colour change. I would post a picture but I don’t think RUclips allows pictures.
Just to get you know... Any fuel with 5% Ethanol or less has to be labelled as E5... That includes any fuel which has 0% Ethanol.
Every Premium Fuel from all retailers is up to 5% Ethanol apart from one! Esso Supreme 99 in most parts of the country is actually E0 although the government requires it to be labelled as E5.
In my tests, if you have an "ECO" engine, basically a 0.9L 3 Cyl with a Turbo like the one I used to have in my 2018 Renault Clio 0.9L 90hp tce, I found that I did 370 miles to the tank with the old 95 Octane E5, 320 miles to the tank with 95 Octane E10, and 420 Miles to the tank with 99 Octane E0 (Esso Supreme)
I have since bought a 2014 Mazda 3 2.0 4 Cyl with no turbo (because someone crashed into the back of my Clio and wrote it off!) and the difference seems to be a lot less. It does maybe 40 miles more per tank with 99 Octane E0 vs 95 Octane E10.
In both vehicles there is a noticeable difference in engine power, smoothness of the engine and fuel economy with 99 Octane E0 giving a much better drive vs 95 Octane E10.
I think E10 petrol is another covert money making scheme for the government in the name of being environmentally friendly... E10 does less MPG, so you use more of it. Fuel Duty is a flat 52.95p per litre of petrol, you then get charged 20% VAT on both the Petrol, and the Fuel Duty. (I thought double taxing was illegal?!) By selling more fuel the government is getting more income from both the Fuel Duty & the VAT.
Thanks for the comedy explosion, I did not in any way brown my keks due to listening on headphones, no sir.
After just a few months of using E10 in my 1999 CBR, the carbs started to leak fuel. The problem was with one of the rubber seals.
Since fitting new seals, I stick to E5!
My pal worked as fuel researcher in motorsport, I’ll alway remember him saying years ago, “If it’s not on the side of Frank or Ron’s Cars, don’t buy it..”
Excellent work, Jon! I always thought US ethanol hype was the corn farmer's lobby. It actually takes more petroleum products to harvest the corn, truck the corn, process, truck then blend than regular dead-dinosaur gasoline (petrol) consumes. Auto lobby encourages ethanol for the reasons you mentioned: corrodes your classic cheaper-to-maintain car.Ah, happy politicians and lobbyists.
I'm not too familiar but the corn farmers lobby sounds about right. Corn syrup in everything!
you should test the E10 fuel in super markets.
160000 miles on Supermarket diesel through my company Mondeo 2.0 Tdci - not permitted to use branded fuel because of its cost. Never had a moments problem with it summer or winter all throughout the fleet - never noticed any difference when I filled up at my own expense for private use on Shell, Esso or whatever. Don't know what to make of any issue that people say they've had.
Yes please. Please do more like this over longer period, spanning sites, brands and qualities of fuels. Would also like to see how it stacks up against the supermarkets.
Great content, it would be good to see the 97 RON fuels tested, also maybe a 3-6 month test for those cars/mowers/strimmers that sit all winter.
A very interesting video John! And yes please do test the others as noonne else seems to and give an unbiased view
Apart from measurement problems, the demonstration that Ethanol is water prevalent compared with the rest of the mixture shows why there can be longer term problems with a lot of damp air in a petrol tank, with the risk of a water/ethanol mix settling at the bottom. The “shelf life” of E10 is quite short - sometimes 90 days is quoted.