Does Fuel Stabilizer Prevent Ethanol Damage? Let's find out!
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2019
- E85, E10 and non-ethanol gasoline compared after 9 months of storage with and without fuel stabilizer (Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers) to determine if fuel stabilizer prevents corrosion and keeps gasoline from becoming stale.
Products Tested in This Video:
Lucas Oil Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner: amzn.to/2YoesHa
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Thanks for requesting this one. I have another video on fuel stabilizer on the way but it'll be a couple of more months before they fuel has reached 12 months. Here's a link to Lucas Oil Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner: amzn.to/2YoesHa
It seems like the non ethanol fuel will run but the engine needs to be hot already. Like the spark plug and exhaust valve need to be at operating temperature? Maybe? Or at least very hot. Because ether burns very hot and makes engines hot "warming them up" and allowing them to stay running. But just because they run i have no doubt that the work that the engine will be abke to do with that poor fuel will definitely be less.
Great videos. Would you do one with marine Stabil (blue) and E-10? I just don't know of anyone who uses Lucas. Keep up the good work.
does the stabilizer go bad? that would be something to test, like what if after a couple months you would add some fresh stabilizer or a little fresh fuel?
on a side note: I'm not a chemist but what if whatever attracts water to ethanol is taken out of the equation? such as a water-like compound which replaces it in ethanol so that it can burn instead
I was looking for an "Old" fuel video, good thinking!
I bet you could get a good idea on how the fuels affect the rubber components by a pressure needed for compression of the rubber to a certain distance. So for example the new hose fuel hose would be the control reading and would give a reading of say 1.5psi needed to make the inside of the hose touch each other when pinched off. Something of that sort. With other stuff you could pinch it and get a reading, and then measure the distance pinched for the reading you got and make a shim of that thickness of metal or use a certain thickness metal from the beginning. This would give you the most accurate comparison between the rubber products.
You can contact me further if you want to do this but I didn't completely explain myself well enough. ;o) I really like your videos.
God Bless!
Andrew C.
Hey! I'm an engine design engineer that's designed fuel systems and engines from big diesels to small 2-strokes. You mentioned not having a way to measure the effect on the rubber components. The 2 biggest problems with elastomers exposed to ethanol are swell and embrittlement. You can measure swelling by measuring dimensions (or volume) before and after, or you can measure mass change (be sure to dry the sample out before weighing). For embrittlement the best way to measure is measuring durometer. Without having a durometer tester you can use a fixed load to press a dull point (like a punch) into the elastomer and measure how deep it sinks into the sample under this load.
I used to design consumer-grade 2-stroke outdoor power equipment. I'd always tell people if you use E10 the degradation of elastomers (fuel lines, carburetor diaphragms, etc...) will kill your product long before the engine dies.
Really enjoyed the video.
Eric, Great suggestions! Thank you very much!
Your the perfect person for this question RE : lawn boy 2 stroke engines that require 35:1 oil gas mix . I don’t use the old lawn boy oil but rather modern 2 stroke synthetic oil . Is 50:1 ok ? I read that it’s ok with modern synthetic oil. Also ALL my other equipment uses 50:1. It would be nice to just make one batch of fuel . Thanks
@@jhopk83388 A 40 (+) year professional lawnmower and Marine mechanic here; I have 27 year old "M" series running 64:1 with a oil mixing system. An older F engine, I'd only go 40:1. If it's a newer Dura Force. Yes go 50:1
K2SKIER112 Thank you for the reply !! I have a lawn boy 6431 (1987) I believe that’s an F series and a newer 22260 (2004) with the 6.5 Dura Force ( my daily) .
K2SKIER112 Tell us your winterizing process ! 😀
Another experiment that is multiple months (nearly a year) in the making! This is why you are just plain awesome. All without big box sponsorships.
Thank you! You are right. No need for sponsors. I love the freedom to provide independent testing without any outside arm twisting!!
@@ProjectFarm Yep, I like how it's just based upon products anyone can buy and based upon companies products claims and having the end result of they're actually telling the truth or they're full of crap, don't trust them. This sort of thing is what keeps them in check as there is no buy out option for them.
Yeah!
@@ProjectFarm have you tested the benefits of marvel mystery oil?
@@ElectricalExistence yes he sure has! He has done quite a bit of testing with MMO
This is such a great video. As a small engine mechanic I really appreciate all the time you spent, especially taking time to do this one. I “knew” this but seeing the proof is so satisfying. Thank you again!
Thanks and you are welcome!
You knew what? That fuel stabilizer doesn't do anything? Lol..
Pretty interesting video, confirming many of my thoughts on ethanol. I do small engine repair and have seen carburetors become damaged beyond repair after a machine sits for a year. When I was a young man (circa 1972-1978) I mowed the grass at my parents house. I used a Toro Reel Mower, I never had a problem firing it up and it was used pretty regularly. Ethanol had not come into the picture yet. From time to time over the years after I moved out I went and mowed for my mom. She hired gardeners and they never used that old mower. Every time I went and mowed for my mom that old machine fired right up. There were several times I didn't mow her grass with that machine for well over a year, even 2 or 3 years and it always fired right up.
Thanks for sharing.
I think the stuff is garbage. I leave gas sitting in the mower or snowblower until the next season and Never had an issue with carburetors or starting up after choking and a couple pulls. The fuel evaporates out of the carb anyways in probably less than a day and the tanks are sealed. If it were a big issue the carbs would be junk after one season or two of using because when you are done each snowstorm or mowing there is always gas sitting in the carburetor until the following mow time or snow. This isn't the case. I call bunk on these additives.
@@NoFeeArea Interesting view.. Allow me to rebut..
First point.. Older stuff Equipment), is way more forgiving than newer stuff. Emission compliance mandates force manufacturers to tune lean.. That means smaller orifices in the carbs, that plug up way easier than twenty years ago.
Second point... "Fuel evaporates out of the carbs".. Well that only happens if there is a fuel shut off.. and you actually use it! Otherwise, on a lawnmower, or snowblower, the fuel tank will gravity feed against the needle valve in the float bowl, and keep the carb filled with fuel. Fuel evaporation, is exactly just that. The "fuel" evaporates, and leaves behind varnish. The only way to avoid that, is to shut off the fuel to the carb, and run it dry.
Third point... " and the tanks are sealed". Ummm .. On a 2 stroke, they are, on a 4 stroke, they're vented. Basically, if a carb has a float, on a small engine, it's vented. If there's no float bowl, it's sealed. That's why you can run a weed eater or chainsaw upside down.. It has a fuel diaphragm as a fuel pump, and it's run by compression pulses from the crankcase. As a carb that has a gravity feed fuel system, it has to have a fuel cap vent to allow the fuel to flow. Take the un-vented fuel tank cap off your 2 stroke weed eater, put it on your lawnmower and see how long it runs before it starves for fuel and dies, because there's no way for air to get into the fuel tank, creating a vacuum.
So, which is it? " The fuel evaporates out of the carb in less than a day", or, " there is always gas gas sitting in the carburettor until the following mow time or snow." Ya can't have it both ways.
If you can leave untreated Ethanol pump gas in your snowblower from one season till the next, and it starts in a couple of pulls... You're way luckier than the rest of us..
@@charles09361 Allow me to retort. Ihave never used any fuel treatment. After a few pulls (mower in the spring) or (blower in fall) everything starts right up and after 30 seconds runs great. It's overkill and a waste of money IMO. Not for me.
Ĺ
Dude, that’s a lot of work to bust some myths and end some “never ending” debates....
THANK YOU!!!
Thanks for the feedback!
the idiots will keep debating, just like religion has always existed in blatant opposition of science...
I'm glad he takes the time to do these test. And they do show what Ethanol will do to certain types of plastic and rubber lines, as well as aluminum, and it's a pretty good bet that in some manufactures fuel injection systems that do not use as high as quality materials as other manufactures do, and even though they claim they use Ethanol safe parts in their fuel systems, in time, because of lower quality materials that will be used by some to lower production cost, the owner is going to have fuel system problems caused just by using Ethanol.
Just think of what Ethanol is going to do in time to lower quality replacement parts like those lower cost Ebay fuel injection fuel pumps and fuel regulators.
Looks like I'll be draining ALL the fuel from my boat... This should be fun to find somewhere to send it 😒
@@Derkenblosh2 put it in your car
I seriously never write comments but your videos have the least bias test (if any) I have seen I'm sure I speak for a lot of us when I say awesome content and extremely informative and somehow interesting 👍👍
Thank you very much for taking the time to comment and for the positive feedback! It means a lot and keeps me going!!
have used Lucas products for months now!!!
@@ProjectFarm do you have a video on rust removal in a coolant system? I have an 82 isuzu pup diesel engine that has a serious rust issue and I'm trying to clean it up please help!
It has been more than 2 years since this video went up so I guess part 2 has been released by now (I will watch that as soon as I track it down). Thank you for the good works you perform. Also thank you for the summing up near the end. I did have trouble keeping track of the individual results but the summing up brought it all back into focus.
Thanks so much!
Thank you so much! Always empirical and precise! After years of watching you I believe you were the start of many people taking their self serious and they’re testing to a new level. I do believe you sent the bar hire for others to follow. We all thank you for that.
You are so welcome
I love how serious you take this, it makes me feel respect for what you do
Thank you very much!!
I'm with ya Avalon
This is why it's worth the extra couple bucks to only use ethanol free fuels for your small engines (mower, whipper, snowblower, etc).
Agree. I always drive the extra 15 miles round trip to purchase ethanol free for the small engines. Well worth it!
Shhhh this is how I make make money lol.
This is why I'm working on going to electric for anything that would need a small engine.
Re-thinking the jerry can of mixed fuel I have. Don't want premature anything on the Stihl & McCulloch chainsaws.
Going to add Sta-Bil Storage to the can next time I fill it up. They say it's good for a year in the machine, no issues.
In Germany, even the normal Gasoline has 5% Ethanol
Thank you very much for doing this test. It’s so great that you left the fuel in the jars for so long. I have always wondered about these fuels and stabilizers and the impact on corrosion. This video is super valuable to me. Thank you so much.
You are welcome!
You always run the best tests and they are all relavent. Thanks!
I immediately went to drain the tanks and ran the carbs empty on my mowers, weed eaters, saws and powerwasher for the winter👍 thanks again
HAHA! I am going to do the same!
Great choice! Thank you!
Don't forget to run the carbs dry.
You might want to use something like Seafoam (read the instructions) before storing it. I purchased 'canned' fuel and after draining and running my small engines dry, put some in the fuel tank and started them up for about 30 seconds. We'll see how they are next spring.
I always run the carbs dry before winter.
I didn’t know that this was the video I’ve waited my whole life for until you uploaded it.
Thank you for your hard work!
Thank you!
Me as well.
Thank you Todd, I'm glad you enjoy doing these things for us everyday people! You, good sir, are a HUGE ASSET to us all! Your honest straight forward opinion is invaluable to many of us, so thank you for that! What I like most about your videos is you're just like us people watching... a normal person that (assuming here) doesn't have a degree in sciences to help us better understand what we're getting/buying. You perform tests exactly the way a normal person would and your explanations are as thorough as possible! What I don't understand is why these businesses can claim something about their product when they know it's BS! You really help us see the "just gimme your money" companies out there which is needed now-a-days!!
You are welcome!
This is my favorite RUclips channel, by far! Thanks for all the tests/reviews you do! 😀
👍
Thanks and you are welcome!
Would love to see this comparison with various brands, specifically:
Sta-bil
Star Tron
Sea Foam.
Thank you for the video idea!
I think a lot of us would like to see that comparison test
Awesome idea. I use Star Tron in everything.
Lol don't leave out Amsoil!!!
Please add PRI-G to the test.
Perfect timing since we are going into winter storage soon.
Thank you!
Now I will be draining some fuel this weekend.
The General It May also be a good idea to spray the interior of the carb down with wd40 to preserve the carb even further, anytime I put a carb into long term storage, I use wd40 to guard against corrosion.
I just watched some click bait video about you, Todd. In they said you have likely earned upwards, if not more than 2 million dollars for the videos you’ve created. You’ve earned every penny. You make great videos that have taught me a lot and saved me money. Keep up the awesome work and I hope you make 2 million more!!! Thanks for all you do.
I learned something. It is good to see real examples of the effects different types of fuel have over time.
Now we are talking.
Thanks and hope you enjoy the video!
PROJECT FARM JUSTIFIES THE VERY EXISTENCE OF RUclips! !!!!! ty so much for your efforts
Thank you very much!
One word: PATREON
BINGO!!!
Best truest comment on youtube.
THIS COMMENT JUSTIFIES THE EXISTENCE OF THE COMMENT SECTION.
Touché
Thanks for running that test. Great work!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Quite peeved as our government just introduced legislation that has eliminated all non ethanol fuel stations (shell was the last one) and now says ALL fuel sold within Canada must have 10% minimum ethanol content for “carbon emissions” so incredibly stupid.
The amount of ethanol content is supposed to increase every few years as well. Thank you for putting this info out so when everyone starts having engine issues they’ll at least know why.
I bought 5 gallons or Shell gas 12+years ago and ran it in my lawnmower all last year. No stabilizers or anything added. Still have a little left and will use it up this season. No issues with starting or running. Didn’t want to run it through my car but an old $25 lawnmower was worth seeing if the gas was still good.
Thank you for investigating this much debated issue
Thank you very much!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I love the thoroughness of your experiments , you take every eventuality you can think of into account. Excellent !
Thanks!
You deserve an award for your review/test videos. Definitely the best on the web. And this one is my favorite.
Thanks!
The UK has recently started using E10 fuel as "regular petrol" and I was interested to watch this video for the effect on both automotive and small engines. Thank you for such thorough testing.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Amazing.
You've completely validated what I've been doing with my lawnmower and snowblower for the last 13 years. Every spring I run my snowblower out of gasoline, and put it in storage. Then I make my twice yearly trip to the "special" gas station to buy non-oxygenated (non-ethanol) gasoline. I then add sta-bil to the gasoline. In the late fall, I perform the same procedure on the lawnmower, and replace the gasoline again and get the snowblower to start. In 13 years I've had 0 problems with both small engines, and they both start right up with one or two pulls.
I was more than a little shocked to see how much gunk was in the ethanol + aluminum containers, and absolutely zero in the non-ethanol ones. I'm tickled to see that the practice I heard about years ago stands up extremely well to experiment!
Thanks!
How does what he posted validate the need for stabilizer at all? My conclusion is that it doesn't do anything at all based on those last two runs...
I definitely agree that running everything dry is the best approach, I let them sit with the caps off with a rag over it so they can evaporate anything else out as well.
The best way is to use only no ethanol fuel at all times, and leave the tank full all winter to keep moisture out. You can run the carb dry if you want, but with E0 gas, it doesn't really make any difference.
You don’t need to mix stabil with non ethanol. Stabil needs ethanol spray to bind to if it doesn’t have any it’s pointless
@@brentiverson1654 Stabil pre-dates putting ethanol in fuel, so no, it's not just for ethanol fuel.
Gasoline also degrades itself over time, and causes problems for engines. Still, it'd be interesting to see what problems other than water contamination corrosion sta-bil solves in non-ethanol fuel.
Please test Stabil! I put this in my motorcycles when I’m away at college. Thanks again for these videos.
Great test idea! Thank you
Same result. When storing an engine you need to drain the fuel system (including carbs & injectors), preferably with the last tank of fuel being ethanol free. The more modern carbs have a coating to combat this, and don't corrode to this degree.
Yep, I use Stabil as well
Agree 100%. Would like to see original and ethanol StaBil tested
Stabil is just ATF
Wow. More significant corrosion and issues than I expected. Excellent demonstration and presentation. Thanks!
You are welcome!
This is a FANTASTIC video comparison of what effects Ethanol in fuel has on older conventional fuel systems. As a classic car restorer, everybody knows that most car hobbyists use their classic car much like a motorcycle and small gas engine- Seasonal. And we endure the same fate as they do every time spring hits and we want to take our cars out. I've been hoping to find someone that did a well thought out and well presented video so show proof of what I've been preaching locally since E10 became the standard at all our local pumps. Your comprehensive testing is FANTASTIC and showing proof of the ill effects of Ethanol in fuel in limited use engines and fuel systems. I believe it's also to blame for a rise in vehicle fires from degrading fuel lines without people's knowledge. I had a few instances I luckily caught before it became a fire hazard! (ate right through the fuel line itself) So thank you for doing this video! I will certainly share it around to make sure others are informed!
Thanks and you are welcome!
You have a fan I’d like to tell you about: Cyndy, my now 64 year old mom loves watching your videos. Used to work operations at Dow Chemical in Louisiana. When I’m over she asks me to “Put my man on the TV please.” We watch your videos together like we used to do with TV shows like Breaking Bad, Burn Notice, and Walking Dead, just another excuse to spend time together.
She loves the high information content and the “man working with his hands” feel, she especially liked the farmabago episode, since she grew up working the family gas station and farm in the 60s. Now retired from the plant and the United States Air Force, you’re one of the “new programs she loves to watch.”
And oh of course “oh now isn’t he HANDSOME.”
Awesome! Thank you very much!
Lmfao that's awesome!
Quite a story to share (w such genuine sentiment) to receive such a short generic reply.
Even though the comment wasn't for me, thank you for sharing.
@@Blessed.2.Teach.4God He's married.
@@charliecharlie9377 I wasn't suggesting a more romantic response, just a more appreciative response considering what all was written.
When I was a firefighter we started to run Trufuel in all of our small engines. Saws, pumps, generators, lights, etc. The repairs to equipment went down drastically as a lot of them sit for long periods of time until they're needed.
Thank you for the information
That's what I use in all my 2 stroke equipment...works great, never any starting issues.
We did the same thing in my department. Repair costs plummeted after we moved to Trufuel. Ethanol was ruining our 2 stroke engines!
Same for me. Started using Trufuel in my garden equipment- no more carburetor issues.
I know of a fire department here locally that runs 100LL av-gas in their chain saw. Also have an old 1916 American LaFrance that loves it.
I was told many years ago by a 2-cycle oil manufacturer executive that these oils are natural fuel stabilizers. Since then, I've been using a little 2-stroke synthetic Amsoil in my seasonal engines to keep the fuel fresh enough to carry over to the next season. This has worked very well in all cases; lawn mowers, boat and snowmobiles to be specific. Would be great to see a test of this method v. commercially available stabilizers, which appear to have limited benefit.
Thanks for the suggestion.
This is a very fantastic and informative video! I’ve actually forwarded it to a customer who has sent me several pieces of equipment to be fixed.
The most recent was a generator power by Briggs & Stratton engine. The factory has not even made a carburetor in months so it was difficult to replace it with an OEM unit. I had also replaced the in tank fuel filter switch fuel line, and other items. I believe the last week point in the chain was probably old gas. He brought me a jug of ethanol free fuel, but I have no idea how old it is. Your tests show that the ethanol free fuel does seem to burn, but with help from starting fluid which is exactly what I did.
Thank you again!
Thanks for sharing.
This guy is the best most detailed unbiased reviewer on RUclips ! At first I thought he was getting kickbacks from seafoam or Lucas but upon further watching I think he is actually legit ... Very awesome.. keep it up and don't take the bait or we will find out!
Thank you for the feedback!
One - if he's taking money from Seafoam and/or Lucas, they should ask for their money back, because he's shown other competitive products that also perform well. Two - my police officer "spidey-sense" (developed when I was a police officer and I was bitten by a radioactive junky - or maybe they had Hep C - meh, probably both) doesn't tingle. Seriously - just look at that man - you'd do well to buy a house on a handshake from a man like that.
@@ProjectFarm new long term project for fuel treatments? also to see if it acutally does restore old gas. they also have a treatment for diesel check the flyers pri-fuel.com/
I am trying to imagine what else is currently this man brewing for us in his lab. Someone ages whisky, this man ages fuel cocktails. Very impressive!
Your videos are amazing! Your research efforts are of a quality equal or better than many I have seen at a university level! Great job!
Thanks!
Thanks for clearing-up this issue. Most appreciated!
You are welcome!
These videos gives me the same good feeling as Mythbusters did. And you are a one man show. Thank you!
Thank you!
Except that Mythbusters was entertainment only, frequently discarding real science despite the image they cultivated.
This channel is genuine.
A 9 month test. You sir are a king. Thank you for your selfless service.
Thank you kindly!
You sir, astound me with how thorough you are with these tests.
Thanks!
Just bought a generator, and this answers the top questions I had on fuel and component longevity. GREAT VIDEO!
Thanks!
This just confirms what I've believed and done for years, close the fuel valve run it dry, and before it stalls pull the choke to suck the bowl clean.
No storage issues!
Thank you
That's exactly what I do with my snow blower after winter, and my lawn mower just before I put it away for the season, and my generators, everytime I use them. The problem with the generators is I never know when I'll need them next, so I run the carburetors dry after every use. I sometimes pause a few minutes, pull the choke, and try to start them again. More often than not, they actually try to start, then run out, before they come up to speed, as it gets the fumes out of the float bowl, and clears the idle and main circuits of the carburetor, so there is no fuel to evaporate and leave gum or varnish, and especially, to avoid corrosion, and galvanization. You have a steel float bowl, and brass jets, and emulsion tubes, in an aluminum housing. Any conductive or electrolytic liquid(that includes alcohol) invites galvanization, which destroys carburetors, because of dissimilar metals. That's above and beyond the corrosion shown in the video, where there was just the aluminum housing samples used in this video.
My generator will run for a good 2 minutes longer with the choke pulled, so that's a decent amount of gas that would be left in the line and carb. It's a good tip.
That's a good tip, thank you!
@Eddie Coyle why, drain the float bowl and that works every time. Long term storage drain the fuel tank and carb. Make sure they're dry completely. No fuel in it store in the garage not a shed. Place a piece of heavy plastic like a freezer bag under the gas cap and lock it down, this stops venting as temp changes. 1 other point pumped fuel is good for 30 days after that it looses some of its volatility due to outgassing and or venting through the filler cap or the carb vent.. Not as big an issue on a car or closed circuit fuel system. Fuel in the rail will go several years before its lost it's volatility. There is no need for ethanol to be added to fuel. Must be Monsanto at work growing GMO corn and ensuring that they have an undisputed profit. Keeps the the price of corn up.
Finally, a “real world” test that proves what I’ve been telling my customers for years. Thank you! I’ve shared this video to my business page as more proof of what ethanol enhanced fuels can do to equipment if not properly maintained.
Long answer : It's not a real world test, but a worst case scenario where the fuel has been intentionnaly contaminated with water. In real world, you will not get as much water if your fuel. Also, carburator are more prone to damage, but they are not compatible with ethanol. Injection systems (100% of modern vehicules) are much less exposed to corrosion because there is no air (and therefore no water) in the fuel lines and injectors. Also, all modern fuel tanks are in plastic or have a protection layer in it, so it will not corrode either.
I'm not saying there is no corrosion at all, but it's certainly not something to worry about, unless you store your vehicule for a long period.
Short answer : in real world, with a modern vehicule, ethanol based fuel will not cause significative corrosion (except maybe if you store it for a long time).
Thank you
@mark robertson Wow, you totally changed my mind, thanks for opening my eyes ! Joke aside, just saying "disagree" brings nothing to the conversation ;-) . If you have factual counter argument, I would be happy to hear it
@Blind Squid I know ethanol is hygroscopic, I'm just saying that what we see in those tests is an extreme scenario. You can find similar tests where there was no intentional contamination, and there was no corrosion at all.
If the ethanol damaged your vehicle to the point of it running bad, it would still be the case after you stopped using it. What kind of degradation did you see ?
I don't know about other countries, but in France, there is no ethanol free gasoline. The "best" you can get contains up to 5% ethanol, and that's true since at least a decade. If it was an issue, there would be a lot of cars mysteriously breaking down since the apparition of biofuel. But that's not happening.
You don't go from perfectly fine at 5% ethanol, to catastrophic failure at 10%. So just don't worry about it...
I use only E85 since 1 year (with a modded car), and I have no issue at all. About exhaust temperature, injector saturation etc, I read a lot of bullshit, so I tested everything myself, and everything works just the same as with gasoline, but that's not the topic.
I did a lot of research a year ago, before converting my car, and I couldn't find any reliable evidence that ethanol caused damage to any modern car on the internet.
Overall, there is let's say no negative feedback. And yet people like to complain...
People saying it damage engines never has proofs. They just relay what they found on random crappy auto blog or website.
BUT
I agree that it MAY cause damages to some parts in direct contact with the fuel in the long run, like fuel pump or injectors. I'm not even sure about that, as those parts are designed to work with ethanol in every modern car.
But honestly, I save the equivalent of 1000$ each year just in fuel. So if I have to replace a fuel pump a little sooner than expected, I just don't care...
@@PAD32 The issue isnt so much with modern vehicles though, it's with small engines. Those of us that wrench on mowers see damage from ethanol every single day.
Part of me is okay with it as it puts dollars in my pocket. Another part of me doesn't like it because it drives up costs and can lead to customers just hiring their mowing out and thus, I end up with less money in the long run.
This is truly the subscription that just keeps giving, great work!
Thanks!
Great video, thanks for all the hard work you put into these tests for our benefit
Thanks and you are welcome!
this is a dedicated man, i have much respect for the patience he has for doing each one of these videos
Thanks so much!
I'm a small engine mechanic and always recommend my customers use Top Tier ethanol-free from a station with a separate pump (or nozzle) for each grade to ensure they are only getting the no-alky stuff. I do also recommend a stabilizer, just because so many of them use big gas cans and the fuel may end up being in there for a full season.
Thank you!
I've been running my small engines on high test. Start them every two to four months. Gas doesn't stay in the can. End of season gets used in my truck.
@@briteidea08 that's what I do and it's the smarter/cheaper/least wasteful method. I use 91 Shell V-Power in all of my small engines. Anything I don't use by the end of fall gets put into my car.
@revenge69ful this is sort of true, in NY i can get 93 octane non ethanol from stewarts but that is another ~$.40 over regular. I only put the non ethanol high octane in my motorcycle, it needs a higher octane anyway. i think for cars that get used all year it probably doesn't matter, but if i had something sitting i would definitely put non ethanol in it.
@revenge69ful the average homeowner will use only a few gallons of gas in lawn equipment a year. Even if it is 50 gallons (big zero-turn mower and a couple acres), the difference in cost between cheapest and most expensive grades would be about $20. Even if the difference were 50 bucks, a carb job can run twice that, and paying someone to mow while the equipment is in the shop just adds more expense. A lot of my business comes from folks with the same attitude as yours...
Getting my dad to understand that he cannot leave gas in his equipment anymore has been a chore. he just doesn't believe it lol this last year EVERY one of his tools didn't start and every single one of them needed a carb cleaning. I will say I'm like a pro with carbs now lol. I also left my dad with 5 gallons of Non Ethanol this fall so hopefully things will still be running this spring lol
curious on your take on winterizing a lawn mower, fill the gas tank with ethanol free gas and store for the winter or completely let the machine run dry then store?
I hope you just sneak by and seceretly dump in some Sta-bile into his power tools gas tanks!
@@kickliquid Good question I believe either would be ok
This is the best real world analysis on fuel I've seen. Thank you!
Thank you very much!
We just bought a generator and I'm going to show my family this to illustrate the importance of using non-ethanol fuel in it. Thanks for the hard work and time you put into these videos.
You are welcome!
Where do you find it? The only place I can find it here is at Home Depot for $25/gallon. That is way too expensive to run a generator.
@@tinytownsoftware7989
Biggest problem is when its stored and not running for long periods of time. If you run that gen every few months (Say 3-6) I doubt it matters.
If you plan to store that gen for a few years (with fuel in it) then you probably should go with those fuel tanks at hardware stores. They supposedly last for up to 2 years opened and 5 years unopened.
Could also just run your gen, burn out the old fuel and then replace with new fuel every few months as well. You just don't want the stuff sitting for long periods of time... as this video showed. Could also empty the fuel out for storage but I seen this dry out components but I'm no expert if that's common or not. I noticed I replaced parts early when I used to do that.. Not sure
Some gas stations still sell gas without that crap in it (as they all should). There are sites and aps dedicated to this.
Just run 'er out and make sure the bowl is empty...
I drain the carb after using my generator. When I didn’t the carb was really a mess and it wouldn’t start.
Ethanol+Water will react with Aluminum even worse when the pH is consistently above 7, a.k.a. an alkaline environment. The mechanism is called alcoholate corrosion and will eat away at unprotected aluminum like you wouldn't believe.
Thank you for providing this information
Great video, very relevant to us UK based folks as of Sept 2021 as our fuel at the pump changes to E10 and E5 (super) this month
Thank you so much for this video!! I currently have 41 small gasoline engines that I have to worry about. I have been adamant about and consistently stabilizing all my fuel for over 10 years now but I STILL had problems.
This video really connected the dots for me with all my symptoms and improved my life. Now I happily drive over 100 miles (from south east CT) to the nearest station with ethanol free gasoline. Of course I will still stabilize; but at least the ethanol is gone! Thank you times 1 million!
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing!
I was a Small Engine mechanic for 5 years and Ethanol was by far the most common issue with all equipment, Great video, Great content, Great RUclipsr. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Is Seafoam any good? I use it with non-oxy and run the bowl dry and refill tank with seafoam and non-oxy before storage.
Been dealing with this for about 10 years. It seems about 75% of our business is ethanol fuel issues. I think that maybe finally our customers are starting to listen to us. And those of you that poo poo and don't believe, you just wait, it will come back to bite you. The stabilizer we use and recommend is K100, but it still doesn't stop the damage. Non ethanol is by far the answer. And by the way, I've been told by a source that the gel that crystallizes after it dries out is sugar.
Thank you for the feedback
You'd think people would have wised up by now, but I guess the average person isn't paying too much attention to what they put in the gas tank, nor are they probably interested in learning about it.
@my two cents ??
I can't drive my Echo SRM-410u to work and your Tesla can't cut 4' grass, dumbass. Do you even know what EV stands for or what a vehicle is?
It's not sugar! It's aluminum hydroxide. Not particularly harmful to humans but don't eat it. It WILL clog up jets in carbs causing horrible misfires, or no starts.
Project Farm I’m so glad and great full that you exist! You are the man!!
Thanks!
Appreciate ALL you do, great, informative videos, please keep it up !!
Thanks, will do!
My rototiller was running rough & started hard this spring. I took the carb apart & it was all corroded inside. I cleaned it all up & started using RV gas, thats what they call it in Michigan. When I saw how much better it ran, I switched my lawn mower & snow blower over to it as well. The rototiller now starts on one pull EVERY time & my rider runs way better!! It isn't even that much more. I get 90 octane RV(no alcohol) & it was only $3.20/gallon. 87 octane for my car is $2.75 & as little as you use, I'll never go back!!! Thank You!!!!!
Thank you for sharing this experience!!
Awesome long-term test. I know you have other long-term projects going on, but do start even more of them!
Big payout to be expected, this sort of slow-to-pay-off kinda content is rare and even more so with practical applications.
Thank you very much!! Yes, several other long term tests underway. Looking forward to seeing the results!
I’ve been adding Sta-Bil to my boats gas tank, lawnmower gas, snowblower, etc. Recently, my Stihl chainsaw sat for 1.5yrs in my shed with gas sitting in it with Sta-Bil, started 4th pull. Sometimes I cheap out and get E-10 gas, but always add Sta-Bil. Love Sta-Bil! Just add the 2ozs whenever you fill a 5 gallon can up. Life changing habit.
Thanks for sharing.
Lucas products are snakeoil.
@@davidwclair2358 I’ve tried Lucas products. Never noticed a difference.
Of all your videos, this has been the most helpful. Knowledge we all need to rely on. Big Thanks!
Thanks so much! Glad to hear!
Nine Months! Congratulations it's a Baby! JKJK
For real, love your commitment to the Truth and Sharing!!!
lol. Funny!
Im always curious when you say you had a project sitting for about a year, how many different projects do you currently have going right now lol
lol. I've got several long-term projects underway. Thanks again!!
and I can't do a project that lasts more than 2 days. . . .
@@ProjectFarm
How about putting some silicone wiper blades on your daily driver and see how many years they last? Maybe a silicone one on the driver's side and a synthetic rubber blade on the passenger's side.
@@ProjectFarm I just imagine what it like around the house, wife wants new house, no we can not move, it will contaminate years worth of projects, or try and fill the refrigerator/freeze with food and have it already full with some type of frozen gas/oil.. lol
Thank you for all the hard work and objective tryouts
You are welcome!
I sure hope he's being compensated well in some capacity for what he does.His approach is so well thought out, comprehensive and unbiased. Well done as I've come to take for granted. Bill Conwell
I love this channel! Thanks for all of the effort that you put into these presentations. Right to the point. No BS, no background music, just like we like it.
Much appreciated!
Thank you so much, Todd for making this video! I remember asking you to make this several months ago and am so excited to see you making the video! Props to you for your hard work and efforts, and the work put forth to wait almost a year for results. Best regards.
Thank you very much!!
Outstanding PF thanks for the HEADS UP 👍
Sept. 2021 and i just watched this...all the carbs i have cleaned for myself and friends...this has given me an understanding of the issues..thanks!
You are welcome! Glad to hear!
I think it was was turning back into corn 😂
lol. Great point!
For me, this is the best comparison video you've done. I have to have the "fuel" talk with people a lot. Thank you for taking the time to do this stuff and share your results with us all.
Thank you for the positive feedback!
Pump gas is for your car. Everything else takes fuel.
Nice job testing and explaining the difference. Thanks for posting.
Thanks and you are welcome!
I enjoy watching your experiments and appreciate your non-biased results and opinions. We have several small engines and dirt bikes and have been plaques by ethanol damage to small carburetors. I would be very interested in seeing this experiment performed in the future with a variety of fuel stabilizers, hoping to find one that prevents phase separation or corrosion of aluminum parts.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Use K100 in your gas to solve your ethanol corrosion problems. Also use premium fuel in your small engines with no ethanol.
I almost feel bad for commenting cuz the work load 😂 but dude I love your videos! you are the epitome of a backyard scientist I love it
Thank you
I always thought old guys that poo poo'd ethanol fuel were just grumpy curmudgeons, but this changes my perspective. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!
Lol sometimes us old curmudgeons know what we're talking about! 😉
Woods Tree Farm ethanol does have some advantages which are often left out by said curmudgeons, although I agree with them in principle and hate ethanol as a whole. Advantages include raising octane naturally (traditional fuel relied upon highly toxic aromatics) and decreased emissions. And the primary disadvantage of water corrosion is heavily minimized if it’s not stored long-term.
But the major disadvantage is still immensely significant. Small decreases in emissions is pretty negligible if someone needs new carburetors, fuel lines and the like. Storage requires additives that apparently don’t work very well (see video). Possible decrease in fuel economy also limits its emissions benefits. And that’s just the ethanol itself, doesn’t even cover the production aspects.
Even when fresh machines just don't run well on it. My moweres will surge and vehicles get worse mpg
@@workingcountry1776 Your mowers prob have a plugged pilot circuit in the carb. This is common and it's not necessarily ethanol fuel. General purpose engines have a pilot circuit and a main jet circuit and run at a fixed RPM. The pilot circuit also called the idle circuit, augments the main jet at WOT throttle and below. If it is dirty or plugged it'll cause them to have a rough idle or surge at idle. I don't see any probs with mowers or power equipment as long as the ethanol is below 10%. But who knows how much ethanol is in fresh pumped gas. I'll agree that your gas mileage will drop on your vehicles and again I suspect there is more than 10 % ethanol in some pumped gas. Carburted engines won't run properly if the ethanol is more than 10% or won't run on E15.
Even FI engines don't like ethanol and it kills fuel economy. Off your mowers are surging or have rough idle at idle then I'd check out the carb. Hope that helps you.
@@mooglemy3813 all equpment runs perfectly on pure gasoline. Its the NY gas because even brand new machines do it to an extent.
Thanks though. Machines that do it more more mayby I'll do a full carb service over winter and see if that helps
Fantastic video thanks for the hard work this really helps see whats going on with fuel storage....
You sir are the premier consumer reports….thanks for taking the time and tremendous effort.
Much appreciated!
Keep the practical experimental research coming. This channel is a top recommendation to my friends.
Thanks, will do!
I have an outlet, a rural station that carries Non E fuel in 93 octane. In that area, there are a lot of farms, and the Gifford Pinchot Nat. Forrest, a Valhalla for Dirt Bikes, and ATV's in summer and snowmobilers in winter. It's expensive at ~$2.00 more per gallon than regular E-10 but they have it. I have done the water test on it to be sure it's the real deal and it passed. No Alcohol present. At the end of snowmobile season, I bring 10 gallons home- about 40 miles away and it's gets me through the summer with all my portable power equipment. This was a great video and I really appreciate you making it. 10/10 with two thumbs up!
Thanks and you are welcome!
One of the best videos on RUclips. Great comparisons and demos. I'm now convinced that removing ethanol from my small engine fuel is a worthwhile effort.
Thank you!
Love this channel, appreciate all the work you do help us all at home trying to figure things out
Thanks so much!
You rock!!! Please never quit!!!
Thank you very much!
@@ProjectFarm No sir, THANK YOU!!!
Thanks for this video (3 years later) E10 has recently flooded irelands petrol pumps and I was concerned for a vintage honda acty pickup with carb! now I’ll make it my business to use non ethanol in it since it’s not driven regularly! that carb in your video was an eye opener! So thanks again 🫡🇮🇪
You are welcome!
I would love to see a similar test using various fuel stabilizers, including Seaform which a mechanic friend of mine swears by. i'm of the mindset that no matter how perfect your fuel and/or stabilizer is, don't let it set in your engine/carb for too long but with that said, i'd love to see how the various stabilizers stack up over a long test period.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah I'd like too see that too.
I'd like to see a test with other various fuel stabilizers as well, specifically Sta-bil and it's variants. I personally have had up to three year old E10 gas with Sta-bil in it in a 5 gallon gas can that has ran fine in my weed whacker and riding mower. There will be a bit of water in the bottom of course, just don't use the whole can. I think the key is to mix it up very well before storing, like you are mixing up a gallon of paint mixing level.
@@meanmugmuzik7901 i've found sea foam added to my gasoline helps some small engines run better/stall less while warming up, my quad & chainsaw for example.
Yes please!!!
That was an awesome video idea! I work in a motorcycle shop and every day I try to convince people to buy ethanol free fuel for their carbureted machines because of how much damage and corrosion is caused in carburetors.
One of the issues with "white" gas(as we called it in the day) is the lower octane rating. Modern EFI systems can compensate by retarding the spark. You do get a loss on top.
Thank you!
For some older carbureted cars, it's important to remember that they may have open gas tank vents- meaning that draining the tank is especially bad due to condensation that would allow for rust
Great point!
When I worked on the venerable C-47, on the bottom of each wing tank was a drain valve. When there was water in the tank, it was drained until the gasoline started to flow. Had to do the draining daily, too.
Sunshine Kid modern GA aircraft too. Used to use a baby food jar to sample the fuel
@@jamesanderton344 We used a quart jar on a pole, depending on the type of aircraft. A high wing C-7, for instance had a much longer pol, as did the C-123, which also had two jet engines that ran on AVGAS. In fact, the C-123, which looks very similar to the C-130 with only two props rather and four, could jettison every drop of fuel and become a glider, as that was it's primary design in WWII.
Sunshine Kid: The 123 had Jet engines?? Years ago I worked with
a Nat Guard pilot who had just transitioned from the 123s to the
Herc. From discussions with him, I got the impression that the 123s
were piston engine. Being an early design, that makes sense. And in
the early 60s when I was USAF, the 123s sure _sounded_ like piston.
Never worked on them, or got too close, so that is just a SWAG (ScientificWildAssGuess)!
Watched this video ,again ! Its not boring at all !! I really like this video
Good video, and always good to have the visual effects of bad fuel for understanding.
Can we bill the epa for the damage to our property
Ethanol is used to boast its Octane rating... so with or without SUBSIDIES its needed...
M B why should have corn farming died out already?
corn is very inefficient, for making Ethanol
Ethanol is used to boost octane, infact GM had the opportunity to use Ethanol to boost octane 100 years ago but chose TEL instead, because you can't pattent nature.
Ethanol is also effective at reducing carbon monoxide emissions, which is the primary reason E10 exists.
@@mbbb9244 Welfare in exchange for votes and financial support to political candidates. Gross.
I left Rick and Morty reruns to watch this
Nice! Hope you enjoy the video!
Project Farm i did thank you for all you do! Any chance you will do the best driveway cleaner?
It looks like you made the right choice there.
PF dude, you are a scientist at heart! You use enuff 'controls' to actually learn something! Thanks for answering some of this old mechanic's questions.....
You are welcome!
The amount of time and effort that you put into these videos is admirable. Thank you!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I took a shot every time he said “corrosion”. Now I’m dead.
RIP
Naw, your insides are just corroded.
My liver exploded.
Good man
One of the only channels that when I click the video I click like before even getting all of the way through it. It’s that damn good every single time.
Glad to hear!
I watch your RUclips channel quite often and really appreciate the tests that perform and the information that you help everyone out with . So I wanted to share a discovery that I recently had ,. I have a chain saw that has been sitting for going on two years ago it has old fuel in it , the fuel is just basic 10 percent 87 octane gasoline , but it is mixed with 40:1 two cycle oil. and When I mixed it I also added Lucas fuel cleaner , you know light brown looking one that comes in a gear oil style quart bottle or in a gallon size bottle. and I also mixed in some Heat Gas line antifreeze that comes in the yellow bottles . I like to mix it like that because I run the fuel for my chain saw and my Snow blower and they both run very good with it . but any how after sitting nearly two years that chain saw started up with the old fuel in it and ran quite good ,. I was very surprised once I seen that I had left fuel in it I thought for sure that I would have to clean or rebuild the carburetor . but to my surprise after a few pumps on the primer I set the choke and four or five pulls on the recoil , it started right up , and after a couple minutes of warming it up, it was running just fine .. so maybe give it a try and see how it works out for you ..
Thanks for sharing!
I automatically hit the *LIKE BUTTON* before I watch his video. Because I already know it's going to be an awesome experience! Keep it up my man! You're doing a positive for the people! 👍🍻
Wow, thanks!