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@d4a Imagine how precise the worm gear drive positioning would have to be to keep all the planetary gears, and therefore the crank, in line so there isn't any offset and induced warping. I hope all the planetary gears are in some type of single tube and theres one worm drive shifting the whole thing
I don't understand how Porsche can force all atomized unburnt fuel in the bottom of the cylinder during exhaust stage. You have to be throwing some of that unburnt fuel out. You'll also need a new set of rings on the bottom of the piston head.
Play probably do lose a little bit out of the exhaust pipes just like a normal car. But the scavenging effect in your exhaust pipes will pull a bit of that un burnt fuel right back into the combustion chamber as soon as the valves open again. @@donh8833
So a 4 stroke + 2 stroke combined. Not convinced the second combustion will be more efficient than that of a 2 stroke. Having it be optimal at a wide range of rpm seems near impossible but who knows, with electronics and controlled compression maybe?
the ppl designing the cam will probably have one (see a spark-plug? i suspect straight ethanol/bio-oils, hence an engine that reduces particulates dramatically)
@@mycosys maybe hydrogen powered? y dont see diesel version of this, but high boost high load it's pretty common in buses, constantly doing start and stop, so in dead stop acceleration can have an advantage, emission pov
The ring gear itself could be interesting in a 4 stroke engine. The motion of the base of the piston rod will be more vertical and put less wear on the piston skirt.
No matter what one thinks about this design and what people think about ice ban, this was a good, detailed, understandable and coherent presentation of yours. Thank you very much.
Soon we’ll be all electric. All we have to do is get ten times the electric grid, invent a battery made from nerf (1000 times lighter than we currently have), accidentally find billions of tons of battery materials that cost five cents a ton and teach our new president Kram you luck Harris how to think above kindergarten
@@LarryThomas-mi4jc It's actually perfect timing because Germany decommissioned their nuclear plants and built inefficient, expensive solar and wind farms instead, which require way more land to produce the same power!
Oberhauptsturmbahnführer Putzi Hanfstangl has filed a complaint against your comment for cruel stereotyping of the fun-loving and spontaneous German people. ...in triplicate. 😂❤😂❤😂❤😂
Explain to me what exactly that means , I never thought about owning Ford vehicles, so don't have any research on them, why the are so "unreliable"!??@@commonsenseisdeadin2024
A very nice, clear explanation of the working of the design according to the patent. Thanks! Regarding balance: I have done some work with hypocycloidal engine designs. The motion of the eccentric on the planet gear offers opportunities to significantly improve both primary and secondary balance. Adding couterweight mass to the planet gear, opposite to the eccentric centre, can offset both the mass of the swinging connecting rod and it's deviation from its conventional location opposite the balance mass on the primary crankshaft. As with most patents, Porsche will no doubt have endeavoured to patent some essential elements of the design without giving away some of the best tricks they have come up with.
@sheila2325 first, no. Internal combustion is not about to be banned. We will be relying on it for some time yet. While that remains the case, anything that can be done to improve efficiency is a gain.
It's 2024 and the closest we've got to atomic engine cars is a connecting rod end making a shape of the Bohr model electron orbits around a nucleus as it moves. I'll take it!
Technically, atomic engine already exist. The only reason why you don't see cars with them is because of safety, because every car crash and accidents would turn into mini Chernobyl/Fukushima type of event.
I can think of a couple of more pretty significant reasons, like ridiculous costs and weight, however small you try to make the reactor. The funniest detail in all these Fallout etc. atomic cars is the frankly absurd impracticality of such an engine. In short, this was supposed to be a joke 😂 Although how about an atomic range extender in a quadcopter flying car... that would be something
Fantastic video. I actually teach automotive engineering here in the UK and this has been one of the very best, and definitely most interesting, videos I have seen on this subject in a long time. Of course, this is also not the first six-stroke ICE concept I have seen but one of the others used water, converted to steam in the hot cylinder, to provide a small, secondary power stroke. Its main drawback was corrosion in the cylinder due to the presence of the water. The Porsche concept is brilliant by comparison. Your teaching style is also really good and I could envision students in a classroom paying full attention to your words, and also really understanding the subject because your explanations and animations are so good. As a manager, I am going to ask my teaching team to watch this video too, as part of their CPD. Really enjoyable, thank you for making, and posting this video.
First stroke, add air + fuel + water, second stroke, add some fuel + excess of air to "dry" the piston. Could that be a good config? if that would work, it could solve so many of the drawbacks of ICE engines.
Six-stroke engines existed around 140 years ago, but the reason was different. Other engine builders did not want to pay Nicolas August Otto a license fee on his patent, so they came up with an additional flushing cycle so that they did not have 4 strokes. Shortly afterwards they read the patent carefully and were delighted to find that the 4 strokes were not included in the patent. What a lawyer, and the inventor apparently trusted that everything was protected.
As a mechanic I see this thing being a nightmare to work on, youre easily doubling your parts required for a bottom end teardown. The crankshaft would need to be split in order to fit between the ring gears, and so it can have a rotating gear in the middle of it, making it many times weaker and harder to balance. Then the ring gears are going to increase the height of the engine as most manufacturers these days put a ridiculously high capacity oil pump down under the crankshaft to power all the VVT and all that, of which this would probably need even more. Then youve got intake ports inside of the block, making block cost go up and if those holes are small, which they'll have to be to fit between all the coolant and oil passages, then they'll all fill up with carbon deposits just like any other modern engine with a PCV. Even if you eliminate that, it would be a nightmare to have to clean that out, and then youre trying to diagnose why the engine is misfiring but it still runs perfectly fine because the first combustion is happening but the second one isnt. I also see all 33.4% of those gains going out the window with the amount of exhaust gas retention youd have to have for any significant burning of unburnt fuel. That means it would have to be an economy based engine, and I actually could see that happening. Even with all the shortcomings it does seem like a possibility once its more refined, and maybe in 40 years this will be the standard economy engine, but it would have to make up for all the massive amounts of added friction being imposed.
@@majormojo Lmao as someone who started off as a BMW mechanic I know that all too well, working on N63s is the only thing that makes me say there's even a possibility of this thing making its way to market someday. Honestly it fits really well with the whole anti right to repair thing every company is doing these days.
With your voice and intonation, you'd be a great audiobook narrator. Of course, not to mention what the LEGION must already have mentioned, your explanations make it all so easy to understand everything. Thanks.
As a german, I couldn't care less how people pronounce "Porsche". I probably pronounce Mitsubishi, Toyota, Renault... differently than native speakers. As long as we know what we are talking about, who cares.
Same, if anything it's cringe when people will say 1 or 2 words in the native tongue while speaking a language I went to pariii and then to mebbin N word... Just say Paris and Melbourne, there is an English pronunciation for things.. it's fine
Fun fact: Although I literally live 20km from Porsche headquarters this invention wasn't mentioned in the German or local news. Thanks for the explanation.
tja und wieso? Verflixt!!! Was ist los bei uns. Mittlerweile ich schaue auch Ausländische presse, damit ich überhaupt etwas mitbekomme, bzw vergleichen kann.
Yep i guess it isn't that popular. So they don't want to make a huge PR about it. It seems to be pretty ingenious. You make better marketing with Electric cars. The video is good.
Pretty sure the guys who make a living on programming a computer how to manage an engine will be able to figure it out. It’s still the same core basic components (spark plugs, fuel injectors, intake/exhaust valves, linear cylinders, etc) and process (add fuel and ignite at the appropriate time).
Matthew is correct. As one of those people, it would not be overly difficult to implement… speaking relative to current ecu software. Variability of the inputs would increase but modern chips are incredibly efficient and can handle this task.
That thinking is the reason why german car makers developed almost all of the Innovation and triumphed in motorsports while the us car makers build basically the same cars since 60 years.
Designers embraced the spirit (and possibly drugs) of Ferdinand himself. Old professor probably smiles from depths of hell, somewhat annoyed at lack of electical transmission integration.
@@theleva7 not designers, engineers; they, imo rightfully, pride themselves as being an engineering company that happens to make cars. It's even in their name: Dr. Ing. Porsche AG
Your analysis of mass media consumers gives me more faith in your intelligence. Thanks for all your excellent content. I've been watching a while and I appreciate your ability to easily explain relatively complex topics.
Do you teach or provide courses on Mechanical engineering? Your knowledge, presentations & entertainment skills are off the charts! Never miss an episode & Thankx for all you do...
Ironic that a German invented the rotary engine which is far simpler than any 4 stroke. Then they make this which combines a 4 stroke top end with a rotary eccentric setup and you get an engine complexity way crazier than the sum of its parts.
While an interesting concept I believe it will have a fatal flaw at 2nd BDC because the piston is going directly from a power stroke to a compression stroke and the loading on the gear teeth of both the planet and ring reverses on the same tooth every single time. There aren't many ways around that unless the gears don't have any common factors like 11/23 or 11/21 but that means constantly driving the ring gear such that it makes up for the missing/extra tooth but that just buys time at the price of added complexity and cost. Then the question becomes: does it buy enough time for the money? My guess is it won't.
There are probably dozens of new designs that won't beat what already exists. This one would be relatively easy to prototype and test tho. Look how much was spent on the one variable-compression engine that made it to the road, for very little improvement.
My main concern is how it will be lubricated. It can't be lubricated like a traditional 4 stroke engine as that would cause the oil to leave in the exhaust port. Using premixed 2 stroke fuel could work, but then you have to deal with lower efficiency, sludge buildup from burnt oil, and increased fuel costs.
@@maximumagp on this respect it is no different..it has pistons and and piston rings to control oil consumption that travel in a cylinder just the same ..literally nothing has changed on that respect..the only thing different is the crank shaft and the cam shaft ..everything else can be found in a conventional 4 stroke and 2 stroke diesels that all have oil in the sump and an oil pump
I finally found the other fun and useful stuff on the "different" channel that always gets recommended at the end. That took me a bit, but the explanations in the videos are always clear and informative. Thanks Dude!
"yeah guys lets patent this insane design that nobody else would come up with just so nobody actually makes it" do you see how rediculous that sounds? I get what youre saying but there is no way that applies to this design.
not really. not the sole purpose of patents. in the automotive industry there are many patents licenced to other manufacturers and vice versa. patents keep the balance of power there.
Yup definitely. Companies acquire patents to use as an arsenal in case a competitor sues them, then they can turn around and countersue. The automotive industry is very incestuous though and I expect most manufacturers have some kind of cross licensing agreements with their nearest rivals to prevent constant lawsuits and to share tech.
love your videos, you are quite clever and explain concepts and engineering processes very well for us "laymen". Please do keep up the good work and would love to see this 6 stroke come into production at some point with one of the major manufacturers.
I'm not an engineer and definitely I don't have money to buy a Porsche. But, in my mind having more moving parts inside the engine is the opposite of simplicity and elegance.
If it's actually measurably more reliable, efficient and powerful it doesn't really matter. A flathead engine might be simple but it's not efficient or powerful, not even really more reliable than a modern overhead cam engine either.
@@theairaccumulator7144 Well, I know that is different things but, an electric engine is more efficient than ICE. and doesn't need this complexity and moving parts inside it. It's lighter and more compact than ICE. Keeping this in mind, it would be not the case to think in the same way for ICE?
20:23 Brazil we use e-fuels since 1974, all cars here run on a fuel that has oxygen in the compositon so they produce more power, also the compression ratio is slightly different than normal gas too. partially this is the reason on why we dont get a lot of cool cars... engine development would be a lot more expensive to be sold just in the south american market (we also export this to other countries)
@@geoffrey6000 they come from sugar cane, that absorbed some carbon on atmosphere on its life, so it is just releasing carbon that was caught some months ago
@@geoffrey6000 And is anything when you TRULY do the math? To produce anything carbon neutral you first would need to make the logistics carbon neutral, and to do that you need carbon neutral fuels or a electric fleet tapping on carbon neutral sources, which will themselves need carbon neutral logistics to be carbon neutral... Honestly is a cyclic nightmare and only politicians and activists that try to push this as if it's a web that can be untangled in 10 years.
But. While German engineers are working on screwing a few more percent of power out of an ICE Chinese engineers are working on solid state batteries that result in 1,000km EV ranges and 10 minute charge times. That’s why Chinese EV production is now greater than all other countries added together. We are asleep at the wheel while China is going to become the global automotive super power of the future through its EV focus.
Although electric car motors are evolving as well. The way they are designed is also very interesting. None of these technologies have to become obsolete, though. The direction has more to do with politics.
At 15:46 minutes you were talking about "some sort of valve" as though something would need to be invented but it already has, the Sleeve Valve. Used in aero engines in WW2 (Bristal Hercules, Napier Saber) and some British cars (there maybe others).
Also the Renesis B13 but it's solenoid activated rather than timed to the engine directly. Otherwise some F1 cars did proper rotary valve style heads as experiments but largely ended up using the design as a throttle plate instead.
I see no point in anything like that. There are already poppet valves at the top of the cylinder. Why on Earth leave those closed and have to create air paths and valves for these new ports?
I think the most promising part of this design is that you can get a variable ratio of power out of the fist vs second combustion stroke. (In the most extreme cases, you could for example not send any fuel/air through in the scavenging phase and run only one combustion stroke in the whole 6-stroke cycle.) This gives you one more adjustment in the "power versus fuel consumption versus clean exhausts" tradeoff; in addition to valve timings, fuel mixture, compressor/turbocharger pressure, etc. And the ring gear allows adjustment of the stroke lengths. Probably not really a lot of adjustment though, because any change in ring gear position will separate the two "first TDC" in height (it just rotates the figure shown at 2:37). And you can't really go a lot further upwards, or the piston will hit the cylinder head. So I'm not even sure if having that adjustability makes any sense or if it's just dead weight.
This engine's main drawbacks all include vibrations. Can't balance an engine, big pistons, unbalanced connecting rods. And it would all be fine, maybe a bit tough on the engine cushions but that's it. If not for the gears. They are probably going to degrade extremely quickly with this amount of vibration.
I was thinking the same thing. It’ll run fine for awhile but eventually the cumulative effect of the vibrations will become apparent as various other components fail, especially if used as a traditional engine mated to a transmission and wheels where engine speed is constantly changing. It might have benefits in an application where it runs at a constant RPM and the vibrations can be nearly fully mitigated like an EV range extender or for power generation. However, the mitigation measures would likely add even more overall complexity and as things get more complicated they’re also more likely to fail.
I don’t get the balance issue. You separate the 3 pistons by 120 degrees, A is balanced by B, B by C, C by A. A flat 6 seems like it would balance, 3 sets of 2 planetary gears offset by 180° for the pair and 120° each for the sets. Seems like you could draw a diagram of the vectors and have them all sum to 0. What am I missing?
sounds like more points of failure, quadruple cost to parts, for small increase to power. guarenteed to have problems. guarenteed nightmare for technicans to repair
Definitively a nightmare to repair. But look at a modern car, compared to let's say a 20 yo. There's SO MUCH MORE points of failure it's insane. Sensors, tiny motors, electronics. But the rate of failure didn't really get that much higher. Just the cost of repair... And labor time. 😂
I liked the video preamble i.e. "No comments are required regarding for the pronunciation of Porsche". Quote "Pronunciation preferences that nobody cares about". This video deserves a thumbs up just for that preamble.
I don’t understand why other companies haven’t jumped on Free Valve Technology. Koenigsegg has a 3 piston engine that puts out 600hp at the crank, and using this drastically increases fuel efficiency
Koennigsegg actually is really willing to work with content creators! There’s a guy somewhere on yt that claimed to have put freevalve tech in his Miata. I think that was when the system first blew up though, I don’t they still follow through with it
See his video on this topic: ruclips.net/video/XV4NavUIznc/видео.html. Short version: normal VVT that's used in the majority of cars capture the majority of benefits of variable valve timing. Free Valve does have possible additional benefits for efficiency and power, but at too high of a dollar, complexity, and reliability cost.
With the strong/weak combustion cycle(s), and with 6 cylinders (for example), this engine will be putting differential forces all along the crankshaft. BANG/bang BANG/bang, all along the shaft. I honestly don't see how this engine will do anything other than tear itself apart.
That's no different of any multi cylinder engine. The only difference is that in this case, a single engine act's on the crankshaft like a 2 cylinder engine. It will be just harder to compensate to avoid vibrations (As said in the video).
I get the distinct impression this is one of those things that's put out there *_so_* it can be improved on. Perhaps they produce the iteration described, initially, and do as is always done and upgrade, simplify, and perfect based on various 3rd party expert feedback gained throughout this time and leading up to the revisions, and by taking note of real world failures/faults much the same.
Youre gonna hate this take - but it would probably make a really nice range extender. the uneven strokes seem like they would be really good for particulates?
I was thinking the same thing. A small three cylinder, electric turbocharged version of this engine would be most clean and efficient at high load, which it would be when charging a large-ish EV battery. The little extra vibration from the less ideal balance would be offset by direct coupling to a large motor/generator. The worse efficiency at low load/idle would go away when the engine is off and the vehicle propelled by battery. The extra parts count of the engine is offset by simplifying or eliminating the transmission (either having direct drive only at highway cruise, or just always going through the electric motors like a train locomotive). The engine could also be simplified without variable cam timing, no EGR, simpler fuel injection since it would only have to run at peak efficiency in a small RPM range.
I had the same thought. Seeing how the advantages are the mostly at higher RPM, a 3 cylinder 6 stroke sounds perfect for a range extender in a medium to big sized vehicle. There's also the possibility to use this in motorsports - Formula 1 cars with these could be quite awesome and would be a good way to test and refine the principle. This also could be a great principle for semi-mobile or stationary generators. As much as I love fully electric cars, it's great to see new technologies like these - because there will be some usecases for ICE or hybrid cars for quite some time.
@@lewiszhou4056 Maybe. The devil is in the details. This design has the potential to generate the power of a 4 cylinder combustion engine using the packaging space and internal displacement of a 3 cyclinder. However as mentioned in the video, it still has drawbacks. What are the friction losses of the crank ring/planet/eccentric assembly? Can such a tall piston be designed that is lightweight, but minimizes excess skirt friction while still sealing the scavenging ports? Can that piston and piston ring package seal reliably for hundreds of thousands of miles? Combustion engines in production vehicles can now reach 40% or more thermal efficiency, i.e. converting nearly half the heat produced by burning fuel into useful work. I could see this six stroke design improving combustion efficiency and emissions by maximizing exhaust gas recirculation right in the cylinder. However other technologies would still have to be used to extract the most energy from the system. For example, an exhaust turbine coupled to an electric motor/generator (e-turbo) to apply boost to the scavenging ports and/or generate electricity. Also freevalve tech (eliminate camshafts and throttle plates to reduce pumping losses. This all sounds crazy complex, but humanity has been improving and developing combustion engines for over 200 years because liquid hydrocarbon fuels are incredibly energy dense. Liquid fuels have real advantages when it comes to storage, transport and use in a wide range of environments. Gas and diesel have about 40 times the energy density of the best lithium batteries available today. The reason Battery Electric Vehicles finally became viable is because of the incredible leap lithium-ion was over previous lead-acid, NiCad, and NiMH chemistries. So a hybrid car that uses a small ICE generator/range extender, combined with a mid-size battery pack that's not as heavy, wear-prone, and difficult to charge as a pure BEV could have a real impact on the market.
What about oil? This is one of the biggest problems with the 2-stroke engine. Here, the oil that normally stays inside the engine thanks to the piston seals, visibly passes through the little holes that the piston uncovers when it arrives at BDC 2. The oil that passed through the holes during the previous strokes can then go into the combustion chamber. It seems to me that the problems of 2-stroke engines are not solved here.
I've always kind of wondered how this works with those opposed piston 2-stroke diesel engines. Do you think there's any chance D4A will do a video on the topic? If it needs to be tied in with recent-ish designs, there's a company called Achates Power that's been fiddling with this style of engine for the last 20 years.
In this case the ports do not open up to the crankcase. I would image fuel would be delivered by direct injection. But if you only use one injector per cylinder, how do you get the correct fuel mixture for the second combustion cycle?
You forgot about the piston rings. 2 stroke engines and this one have holes in the cylinderwall. The piston rings will run over them so much, there will be stress on them. This will end in a really big service. Then, usually a 2 stroke has no straight engine oil. Its a mix of gasoline mixed with 2 stroke oil. Often 1:50. When the piston is in top position, the lower part of it can't close the intake holes to 100%. Result will be oil in them. When injecting, oil will go into the power / ignition cycle. Burned oil means bad exhaust gas values. That is the same problem the rotary / Wankel engines have. So i would say, they can try to build the engine, but at the end, Porsche will have big problems, they don't see atm.
2-strokes only need oil mixed with the fuel when they are using crankcase scavenging. Use a separate scavenging blower, as mentioned in the video, and the crankcase can be sealed and have a normal lubrication system.
@@DABrock-author but, when the scavenging port isn't covered by the piston, engine oil will splash into the port. It make sealing the port tricky. You'll need a long piston body to fully covered the port between TDC and BDC.
@@KarrasBastomi Yes, the piston will still need to be long enough to cover the scavenging ports at TDC. I was only discussing the ’2-strokes have to have oil mixed into the fuel’ claim made in the OP.
I've seen this engine drawing with other channels, it looks like the deisgn is actually 100 years old ! maybe its another drawing Porsche 'found during a disagreement' and are now looking into it? top job on the explaination, very good videos as always !
"You can't make an uneven cylinder count V engine!" Wait, the VR5 exists. Now i want a VR9. Thank you for this wonderful thought. Or a VR15 or VR18 for Bugatti or Rolls Royce.
Which German engine is not a nightmare to maintain. Germans are notorious to make difficult to tune engines and to provide as little documentation as possible. Here in US if you drive a German car you better be prepared to have that car serviced at the official dealer. On another hand if you have money for a German car you have enough money for dealer service.
Nice job. As simple and understandable explanation as I've seen of this. That takes intelligence and understanding of the concept. You can say Porsche however you want to.
12:16 Unburned fuel from the previous stroke mixed in with the exhaust will be burned, again, but we're adding more fuel again, which is probably gonna be burned with even less efficiency due to exhaust from the previous stroke polluting the mix, so I wonder if fuel combustion efficiency will improve at all with this design.
Could it be possible to add different quantities of fuel in those two phases? Adding less fuel in the second stroke would partially prevent the problem that you mention
@@kanetw_ The latest gen of 911's have electric turbos in the hybrid models rolling out this year as well as insanely micromanaged intake manifolds/throttle bodies in the current GT3 iteration (they do it to time pressure waves and get crazy intake pressure from NA). The GT3 engine focuses on bore over stroke and the flat layout allows for pretty creative packaging, so this 6 stroke seems quite suitable for a hybridized flat-6 racing engine.
Only nice thing about it is the variable piston compression. Rest is... like.. "mo powa baby" is probably the last thing anybody asks for or needs nowadays. Could be fun for motorcycles.
with the long piston, not an issue with the right rings.. but if you were to control the side ports with a valve and use a shorter head, unless said valve was right on the wall, you'll be shooting oil down those passages every time the piston goes above them. That in turn would shoot the oil above the piston when it drops below them to scavenge.
2 stroke engines have not much of a problem with rings. But as said in the video, most probably in production those ports will be managed by something else.
It's cool, but there's just no way. The gains on paper just start evaporating when actual materials come into play. Trade the 6 strokes for higher rpm, trade the extra parts for higher grade parts, use a small high strung engine for power/efficiency and slap a pancake motor on it to get it rolling in the first place. We keep trying to crack this nut but the fact is ICE engineers did not spend the last 200 years twiddling their thumbs. The engines are pretty optimized at this point which is why every year some engineer comes out with some genius new ICE that's actually a sealing and friction nightmare. Still it'd be really cool to be wrong and you're right this is a very Porsche solution. It's fun to still see some identity in a manufacturer.
The is about emissions..... A More powerful Engine without the increased emissions. Once you realize that....this is an awesome design. No emission concerns, and yes it's wasted effort as all the things you mentioned (plus some you did not) could bring about the same power increase and then some. Just with higher emissions .
@@johnnyringo35 We've had nuclear energy since the 80s, and emissions have been falling ever since. Germany is however still burning coal and has the highest emission of any country in the EU. The cars are not the problem.
😂 emissions emissions, this is just a bullshit plan to control and restrict more the people who should be responsible for emissions is india pakistan and china not the Europeans
Bloody genius! I’ve been to the Porsche factory in Weissach and they insisted in NDA and all cameras/phones (laptop cameras covered with tape) left at reception. Unsurprising as there were development and test mules all over the place.
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Link to the patent: patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/18585308/ifw/docs?application=
@d4a Imagine how precise the worm gear drive positioning would have to be to keep all the planetary gears, and therefore the crank, in line so there isn't any offset and induced warping. I hope all the planetary gears are in some type of single tube and theres one worm drive shifting the whole thing
*_"... that nobody cares about."_* 😃
I don't understand how Porsche can force all atomized unburnt fuel in the bottom of the cylinder during exhaust stage. You have to be throwing some of that unburnt fuel out.
You'll also need a new set of rings on the bottom of the piston head.
Play probably do lose a little bit out of the exhaust pipes just like a normal car. But the scavenging effect in your exhaust pipes will pull a bit of that un burnt fuel right back into the combustion chamber as soon as the valves open again. @@donh8833
Isn't it pronounced porshi
Like por she so por and she
Without this video, trying to understand it by myself may have given me six strokes.
ha love it
really original
Stroked to the video
So a 4 stroke + 2 stroke combined.
Not convinced the second combustion will be more efficient than that of a 2 stroke.
Having it be optimal at a wide range of rpm seems near impossible but who knows, with electronics and controlled compression maybe?
The intakes suck
Never thought I would see the day when an engine does Suck Squeeze Bang Squeeze Bang Blow
Almost got that correct.
This is what your mom does
@@MM-op6tithis engine costs money, your mother doesn't
@@MM-op6tiYour wife.
@@88njtrigg88 I don’t have one 😎
This would have a funky exhaust sound. I hope they build a prototype!
They'd need one after having the boxer sound for so long.
I don't think it will matter.. the 2nd power stroke of Cyl 1 will be covered by the louder 1st stroke of Cyl 3
I was thinking the same thing. I would love to hear how it sounds with different configurations of cylinders.
Sure tjhey have
Allen Millyard need to dig out his hacksaw and Colchester lathe and build us one.
You sir are an absolute master of explaining things. To get these videos free feels like a borderline crime. Thank you!
It literally took me 20 seconds to understand it
and I know nothing about engines or cars
Timing that thing is going to require a phd
Literally lmao, the engineers who patented this 100 percent have PhDs
the ppl designing the cam will probably have one (see a spark-plug? i suspect straight ethanol/bio-oils, hence an engine that reduces particulates dramatically)
@@mycosys maybe hydrogen powered? y dont see diesel version of this, but high boost high load it's pretty common in buses, constantly doing start and stop, so in dead stop acceleration can have an advantage, emission pov
Tuning as well. You'll have to account for those different strokes on all axes of your map. Fun stuff.
The ring gear itself could be interesting in a 4 stroke engine. The motion of the base of the piston rod will be more vertical and put less wear on the piston skirt.
I’ve always pronounced Porsche Porsche
Me too
I say porch e@@d4a
Nah. It’s Porsche.
Youre all wrong - its porsche but im better cos i dont care which way YOU say it! hah!
that's controversial, I always pronounce it Porsche to not cause a flame war
No matter what one thinks about this design and what people think about ice ban, this was a good, detailed, understandable and coherent presentation of yours.
Thank you very much.
Soon we’ll be all electric. All we have to do is get ten times the electric grid, invent a battery made from nerf (1000 times lighter than we currently have), accidentally find billions of tons of battery materials that cost five cents a ton and teach our new president Kram you luck Harris how to think above kindergarten
@@LarryThomas-mi4jc It's actually perfect timing because Germany decommissioned their nuclear plants and built inefficient, expensive solar and wind farms instead, which require way more land to produce the same power!
@@thadcox5298 Don't forget they made brand new coal-powerplants too!
How soon can I buy an electric Porch? ...sorry Porch-eh.
@@wobblyboost google Porsche Taycan. I'm not a Porsche guy but it's still the ONLY electric car I kinda like
Excellent video! I am not an engineer - just a mathematician and Porsche owner - and this design seems very elegant and plausible!
"Just" a mathematician? Usually, mathematics are far more capable of twisting my mind than engineering 😆
I'm not a mechanic, unfortunately I'm just a lowly astronaught who drives a Bugati and has a large penis
Germans never pass up an opportunity to make something more complex.
Oberhauptsturmbahnführer Putzi Hanfstangl has filed a complaint against your comment for cruel stereotyping of the fun-loving and spontaneous German people.
...in triplicate. 😂❤😂❤😂❤😂
That's not German. That's globalist, who infiltrated and subverted them.
As a german i can confirm, i overcomplicate everything, relationships included.
@@victoria.beilstein996 Real indigenous German or "how do you do my fellow" German? Lol.
@@VndNvwYvvSvv Actually both.
"we've had one, yes, but what about second TDC?"
"Sir, a second TDC has hit the cylinder head."
pippin!
Or elevenses...?
That's what she said...
Imagine the «special tools needed» that Porsche will sell to the backyard mechanics.
It’s actually an 8 stoke process. It goes - intake, compression, combustion, compression, combustion, rods out, head gasket failure, exhaust.
Good thing there's a ring gear to hold the crank in when that inevitably fails as well
Is this how Ford owners cope?
@@ghoulbuster1at high horsepower on stock components... Sure!
Explain to me what exactly that means , I never thought about owning Ford vehicles, so don't have any research on them, why the are so "unreliable"!??@@commonsenseisdeadin2024
my bmw did it better, the rods out happend at combustion...
A very nice, clear explanation of the working of the design according to the patent. Thanks!
Regarding balance: I have done some work with hypocycloidal engine designs. The motion of the eccentric on the planet gear offers opportunities to significantly improve both primary and secondary balance. Adding couterweight mass to the planet gear, opposite to the eccentric centre, can offset both the mass of the swinging connecting rod and it's deviation from its conventional location opposite the balance mass on the primary crankshaft.
As with most patents, Porsche will no doubt have endeavoured to patent some essential elements of the design without giving away some of the best tricks they have come up with.
They shouldn't have bothered, still banned shortly.
@sheila2325 first, no. Internal combustion is not about to be banned. We will be relying on it for some time yet. While that remains the case, anything that can be done to improve efficiency is a gain.
Must have had the idea while playing with a Spirograph.
That or they looked through the other dozen 6 stroke engine patents that have been around since the late 1800's.
Did you know there's a direct correlation between the decline of spirograph and the rise in gang activity? Think about it.
@@thirdwheel1985au it is a downwards spiral
@@thirdwheel1985au I will.
@@thirdwheel1985auwe should give out spirographs to kids to help prevent gangs.
It's 2024 and the closest we've got to atomic engine cars is a connecting rod end making a shape of the Bohr model electron orbits around a nucleus as it moves. I'll take it!
You do realize that atomic engine cars in like, fallout and other things are just steam engines...
Technically, atomic engine already exist. The only reason why you don't see cars with them is because of safety, because every car crash and accidents would turn into mini Chernobyl/Fukushima type of event.
I can think of a couple of more pretty significant reasons, like ridiculous costs and weight, however small you try to make the reactor. The funniest detail in all these Fallout etc. atomic cars is the frankly absurd impracticality of such an engine.
In short, this was supposed to be a joke 😂 Although how about an atomic range extender in a quadcopter flying car... that would be something
We do have atomic engine cars. Only slight issue is they're currently both on Mars!
Why not a black hole for burning the air, without fuel.
I saw the news about the patent when it was published and I just knew you were going to make a in depth video. Great job
same, didn't bother reading, waiting for this video which would definitely be way clearer :)
Super clear and technical enough without being overly detailed. Perfect balance, thanks!
Came for the engine, stayed and liked for the DJ comparison at 1:11😂
WikiWiki lol😂
That would have been worth a subscribe if I wasn't already lol
The man's already got the new marketing plan for the engine 😂😂😂
Fantastic video. I actually teach automotive engineering here in the UK and this has been one of the very best, and definitely most interesting, videos I have seen on this subject in a long time. Of course, this is also not the first six-stroke ICE concept I have seen but one of the others used water, converted to steam in the hot cylinder, to provide a small, secondary power stroke. Its main drawback was corrosion in the cylinder due to the presence of the water. The Porsche concept is brilliant by comparison. Your teaching style is also really good and I could envision students in a classroom paying full attention to your words, and also really understanding the subject because your explanations and animations are so good. As a manager, I am going to ask my teaching team to watch this video too, as part of their CPD. Really enjoyable, thank you for making, and posting this video.
First stroke, add air + fuel + water, second stroke, add some fuel + excess of air to "dry" the piston. Could that be a good config? if that would work, it could solve so many of the drawbacks of ICE engines.
The water injection engine from BMW? Yeah that one never caught up.
D4A (edit: him, to be clear) has made a whole video (or a few?) about his water injected setup in his Toyota MR2.
This needs to be banned, ridiculous. All this for what? It's still an ICE!
The "Hast du meinen Porsche gesehen" was so well pronounced, I cannot be upset about you saying it the other way
warum so nachgiebig
I can't be bothered watching a guy who just proved he could pronounce it correctly and then turns around and says "yeah I'm not gonna bother"
@@Antanana_Rivoif you understand it, it’s correct.
Love how you have the exhaust valve working twice as much as the intake valve… double the valve service just for one valve 👍
It’s pronounced Volkswagen Beetle.
🤣
Actually it's kdf wagen
@@gg2324
*KDF
@@gg2324 Actually it's Tatra 77
Finally, a fellow intellect
Maybe a racing engine for WEC? Better efficiency at full throttle sounds like it would be most beneficial there.
i was thinking the same, putting this engine in mass production gonna be a nightmare for regular mechanics
I think they should start from sprint races because it will hardly withstand a 6-hour race at the beginning of things
@@hugothcmoa4731 Electric cars are just a nightmare for regular mechanics so i guess invalid. Most would prefer this one to work on.
Electric motor improves efficiency and constant talk measurably.
@@hugothcmoa4731won’t be any mechanic s they will all be EV mechanics
the DJ comparison killed me !!!
Wacka wah!
Ya, that got me too.
Thats exactly when I clicked the like button
It was quite jarring to me too, but it definitely makes me remember this video and this engine.
All your videos are very informative while staying light and enjoyable.
Very knowledgeable. Thanks for your content.
Six-stroke engines existed around 140 years ago, but the reason was different. Other engine builders did not want to pay Nicolas August Otto a license fee on his patent, so they came up with an additional flushing cycle so that they did not have 4 strokes. Shortly afterwards they read the patent carefully and were delighted to find that the 4 strokes were not included in the patent. What a lawyer, and the inventor apparently trusted that everything was protected.
The world was saved by a bad lawyer it seems 🙏
Stunning video dude, you did a great job with how you organized the steps of the explanation, all came together perfectly. GOLD
As a mechanic I see this thing being a nightmare to work on, youre easily doubling your parts required for a bottom end teardown. The crankshaft would need to be split in order to fit between the ring gears, and so it can have a rotating gear in the middle of it, making it many times weaker and harder to balance. Then the ring gears are going to increase the height of the engine as most manufacturers these days put a ridiculously high capacity oil pump down under the crankshaft to power all the VVT and all that, of which this would probably need even more. Then youve got intake ports inside of the block, making block cost go up and if those holes are small, which they'll have to be to fit between all the coolant and oil passages, then they'll all fill up with carbon deposits just like any other modern engine with a PCV. Even if you eliminate that, it would be a nightmare to have to clean that out, and then youre trying to diagnose why the engine is misfiring but it still runs perfectly fine because the first combustion is happening but the second one isnt. I also see all 33.4% of those gains going out the window with the amount of exhaust gas retention youd have to have for any significant burning of unburnt fuel. That means it would have to be an economy based engine, and I actually could see that happening. Even with all the shortcomings it does seem like a possibility once its more refined, and maybe in 40 years this will be the standard economy engine, but it would have to make up for all the massive amounts of added friction being imposed.
Your point is valid, but a design that is unnecessarily complex and a nightmare to service is not generally an impediment for German auto engineers.
Seems like it would have vibration issues to me
@@majormojo Lmao as someone who started off as a BMW mechanic I know that all too well, working on N63s is the only thing that makes me say there's even a possibility of this thing making its way to market someday. Honestly it fits really well with the whole anti right to repair thing every company is doing these days.
Not to mention if they're mad enough to make this thing direct injection 😮
The point probably is to just buy a new motor instead of having it repaired. Pretty sure that's where manufacturers will have it go in 10-20 years 😂
With your voice and intonation, you'd be a great audiobook narrator. Of course, not to mention what the LEGION must already have mentioned, your explanations make it all so easy to understand everything. Thanks.
As a german, I couldn't care less how people pronounce "Porsche". I probably pronounce Mitsubishi, Toyota, Renault... differently than native speakers. As long as we know what we are talking about, who cares.
Same, if anything it's cringe when people will say 1 or 2 words in the native tongue while speaking a language
I went to pariii and then to mebbin
N word... Just say Paris and Melbourne, there is an English pronunciation for things.. it's fine
Agreed. No matter how pronounced, still one of the best engineered vehicles in the world.
Literally tomato tomato
German pragmatism on full display here
Congratulations on your excellent english. Forget Porsche - there are very few words in german that I can speak.
Fun fact:
Although I literally live 20km from Porsche headquarters this invention wasn't mentioned in the German or local news.
Thanks for the explanation.
tja und wieso? Verflixt!!! Was ist los bei uns. Mittlerweile ich schaue auch Ausländische presse, damit ich überhaupt etwas mitbekomme, bzw vergleichen kann.
You should go there and complain
@@xpusostomos I am actually not such a Porsche fan. This is not the type of car I would spend my money for. Way too expensive.
Yep i guess it isn't that popular. So they don't want to make a huge PR about it. It seems to be pretty ingenious.
You make better marketing with Electric cars.
The video is good.
People have lives in Germany. RUclips is for those who have time to waste.
Borsch.
Borscht!
@@d4a now I'm hungry
That’s a soup in Eastern Europe
Борщ
This is exactly what comes to my mind as a german when I hear that stupid murican Porsche pronounciation.
"I just saved you from commenting your pronunciation preferences that no one cares about." That's an instantaneous like and sub.
Good luck Bosch developing ECU for that engine.
they will need it LOL
Pretty sure the guys who make a living on programming a computer how to manage an engine will be able to figure it out. It’s still the same core basic components (spark plugs, fuel injectors, intake/exhaust valves, linear cylinders, etc) and process (add fuel and ignite at the appropriate time).
Matthew is correct. As one of those people, it would not be overly difficult to implement… speaking relative to current ecu software. Variability of the inputs would increase but modern chips are incredibly efficient and can handle this task.
I vote to call it TDC and TDC Jr.
I enjoyed this video from my front porcha.😊
🍄
Well done sir, especially on the DJ part 🤭.
German engineering: "Let's make it so damned complicated that no one can repair it, including us."
The irony is that the combustion engine, all of its iterations as a matter of fact, is a German invention.
Anyone will be able to repair it with the proper service manuals and tools
under the green agenda, they make everything fragile and complex, so it breaks sooner, can not be repaired, and it makes you buy a new one.
That thinking is the reason why german car makers developed almost all of the Innovation and triumphed in motorsports while the us car makers build basically the same cars since 60 years.
Yeah, don't EVEN get me going about my 1995 Audi 90 Quattro V6. May the engineers that designed that monstrosity rot in hell.
So its a cludged together atkinson cycle mixed with a detroit diesel?
You beat me to it...
Exactly
Sure, except that it isn't an Atkinson cycle.
Power Choke turdbow diesel
You wanted more friction obviously and more wear, more servicing, No thanks.
Porsche has successfully broken my brain
It's a tough one no dobut. You should see their worded explanation in the patents. Without the images there is no person alive that would get it :))))
@@d4a I’d love to see this thing recreated in engine simulator.
Designers embraced the spirit (and possibly drugs) of Ferdinand himself. Old professor probably smiles from depths of hell, somewhat annoyed at lack of electical transmission integration.
@@theleva7 not designers, engineers; they, imo rightfully, pride themselves as being an engineering company that happens to make cars. It's even in their name: Dr. Ing. Porsche AG
My brain isn't braining enough to understand the motor. In my defense, I'm not exactly a motorhead/gearhead.
Your analysis of mass media consumers gives me more faith in your intelligence. Thanks for all your excellent content. I've been watching a while and I appreciate your ability to easily explain relatively complex topics.
Do you teach or provide courses on Mechanical engineering? Your knowledge, presentations & entertainment skills are off the charts! Never miss an episode & Thankx for all you do...
No, the DJ remix was ABSOULTELY necessary. Essential even.
Yeah actually helped explain it.
Whenever I want to totally engineer things beyond any hope of keeping things simple, I turn to Germany.
Vorsprung Durch Technik? Nah son, Mehr Bewegliche Teile!
I'm waiting for the german patent to drop of a paper weight with 387 moving parts involving a 33 and a third stroke thorium engine made of malachite.
Ironic that a German invented the rotary engine which is far simpler than any 4 stroke. Then they make this which combines a 4 stroke top end with a rotary eccentric setup and you get an engine complexity way crazier than the sum of its parts.
@@RocketPropelledWombat so ist es.
I love the direct, not carrying too much about comments, approach on this guy!
2035:
every one :ev or hybrid
porsche: na 6 stroke 6 cylinder
😂🤟🏻
Sorry, no hybrid in 2035:(
@@makeintoschuhopefully 10 years development in EV technology and charging infrastructure is enough
@@captainheat2314it won’t be, we just won’t be able to leave the house except on foot. All a part of The Plan™️
Pretty sure the whole point of this is to boost it heavily and run it rich to make the scavenging stroke worthwhile, so not NA
Brilliant idea, well explained, and reminds me of the finesse of the last generation of steam engines before they were replaced by elecric and diesel
The extra "Eh-ca-eh-ca" on the combustion got me. Giggled out loud.
My congratulations on a superbly explained video about a complex engineering issue. I really enjoyed this.
While an interesting concept I believe it will have a fatal flaw at 2nd BDC because the piston is going directly from a power stroke to a compression stroke and the loading on the gear teeth of both the planet and ring reverses on the same tooth every single time. There aren't many ways around that unless the gears don't have any common factors like 11/23 or 11/21 but that means constantly driving the ring gear such that it makes up for the missing/extra tooth but that just buys time at the price of added complexity and cost. Then the question becomes: does it buy enough time for the money? My guess is it won't.
There are probably dozens of new designs that won't beat what already exists. This one would be relatively easy to prototype and test tho. Look how much was spent on the one variable-compression engine that made it to the road, for very little improvement.
Interesting to see what you see, even though I'm pretty sure they thought of that in some process of scrutiny.
Forgot about the carbon from blow by eating the teeth...
Good point, I'm with you. Thanks for sharing. J.
+scavenging will not happen if turbo is being used becouse it creates backpressure
I fluidly switch between pronunciations of Porsche constantly just to annoy car nerds. 😂
I say Porsche among laymen and PORSCH among Porsche owners
As a german I'd say wolkswagon to a VW when I speak to an englishspeaker. Because they don't know what the hell a VAU-Wee is😅
@@flipflop7577 Now I'm curious how you pronounce "wolkswagon"
❤❤❤❤❤
Literally me but with UK and US spelling. Sometimes I'll even switch mid-sentence for even greater effect.
As soon as I saw the news about the engine, I was looking forward to this video!
This guy is quality, he explains everything so well and makes it understandable for dummies like me.
My main concern is how it will be lubricated. It can't be lubricated like a traditional 4 stroke engine as that would cause the oil to leave in the exhaust port. Using premixed 2 stroke fuel could work, but then you have to deal with lower efficiency, sludge buildup from burnt oil, and increased fuel costs.
And at that point just running a 2-stroke with an expansion chamber exhaust would probably be better
no it wont..how is the oil going to get out of the sump and into the cylinder ?
@@77appyithe whole point of an oil pump is to move oil around the engine, part of which involves feeding it into the pistons to lubricate the bores
@@maximumagp on this respect it is no different..it has pistons and and piston rings to control oil consumption that travel in a cylinder just the same ..literally nothing has changed on that respect..the only thing different is the crank shaft and the cam shaft ..everything else can be found in a conventional 4 stroke and 2 stroke diesels that all have oil in the sump and an oil pump
I guess you’ve never heard of EMD or Detroit 2 strokes?
I finally found the other fun and useful stuff on the "different" channel that always gets recommended at the end.
That took me a bit, but the explanations in the videos are always clear and informative. Thanks Dude!
Keep in mind that patents are filed with intent to block the competition rather than actually implementing the patented technology
"yeah guys lets patent this insane design that nobody else would come up with just so nobody actually makes it" do you see how rediculous that sounds? I get what youre saying but there is no way that applies to this design.
not really. not the sole purpose of patents. in the automotive industry there are many patents licenced to other manufacturers and vice versa.
patents keep the balance of power there.
@@brendonbalascan6814😂😅
And they say flying saucers don't exist
Yup definitely. Companies acquire patents to use as an arsenal in case a competitor sues them, then they can turn around and countersue. The automotive industry is very incestuous though and I expect most manufacturers have some kind of cross licensing agreements with their nearest rivals to prevent constant lawsuits and to share tech.
love your videos, you are quite clever and explain concepts and engineering processes very well for us "laymen". Please do keep up the good work and would love to see this 6 stroke come into production at some point with one of the major manufacturers.
1:06 🤣🤣🤣 loved your scratching, DJ 6 Stroke!
I'm not an engineer and definitely I don't have money to buy a Porsche. But, in my mind having more moving parts inside the engine is the opposite of simplicity and elegance.
it's interesting. I'm not sold at all at it being better. also the bit at 6:50 needs more explaining
it´s in fact a very simple concept. if you compare with other strange electronic, hidraulic... whatever systems to have valve control etc.
And costly.
If it's actually measurably more reliable, efficient and powerful it doesn't really matter. A flathead engine might be simple but it's not efficient or powerful, not even really more reliable than a modern overhead cam engine either.
@@theairaccumulator7144 Well, I know that is different things but, an electric engine is more efficient than ICE. and doesn't need this complexity and moving parts inside it. It's lighter and more compact than ICE. Keeping this in mind, it would be not the case to think in the same way for ICE?
20:23 Brazil we use e-fuels since 1974, all cars here run on a fuel that has oxygen in the compositon so they produce more power, also the compression ratio is slightly different than normal gas too. partially this is the reason on why we dont get a lot of cool cars... engine development would be a lot more expensive to be sold just in the south american market (we also export this to other countries)
Hydrocarbons with oxygen are called alcohols
not carbon neutral though
@@geoffrey6000 they come from sugar cane, that absorbed some carbon on atmosphere on its life, so it is just releasing carbon that was caught some months ago
@@geoffrey6000 And is anything when you TRULY do the math? To produce anything carbon neutral you first would need to make the logistics carbon neutral, and to do that you need carbon neutral fuels or a electric fleet tapping on carbon neutral sources, which will themselves need carbon neutral logistics to be carbon neutral... Honestly is a cyclic nightmare and only politicians and activists that try to push this as if it's a web that can be untangled in 10 years.
@@marcelocoelho4107 i was just pointing out that the fuel they burn is not at all the same thing as in this agreement.
This is a fantastically educational video that is extremely well presented . . . much appreciated!!
I highly doubt this will hit the mass market.
The more gears you introduce, the more power loss and points if failure.
YEah, that was the thought process before when we got quality cars, now with planned obsolesence its perfect.
Gears are pretty efficient, and are rarely the source of mechanical failures.
Most likely not, but still an interesting patent
Are u the new frank Williams?
Yeah definitely a lot of parasitic loss
People who say that engines are obsolete because battery technology is evolving have to remember that engines are evolving too.
But. While German engineers are working on screwing a few more percent of power out of an ICE Chinese engineers are working on solid state batteries that result in 1,000km EV ranges and 10 minute charge times. That’s why Chinese EV production is now greater than all other countries added together. We are asleep at the wheel while China is going to become the global automotive super power of the future through its EV focus.
ruclips.net/video/9xIE9seg6Os/видео.htmlsi=BzAdWnV4eaxXhr5b
So were vacuum tubes when the transistor came out.
@@8BitNaptimeso are bicycles but people still walk
Although electric car motors are evolving as well. The way they are designed is also very interesting. None of these technologies have to become obsolete, though. The direction has more to do with politics.
At 15:46 minutes you were talking about "some sort of valve" as though something would need to be invented but it already has, the Sleeve Valve. Used in aero engines in WW2 (Bristal Hercules, Napier Saber) and some British cars (there maybe others).
Known for rapid wear and loss of the ability to seal.
Also the Renesis B13 but it's solenoid activated rather than timed to the engine directly. Otherwise some F1 cars did proper rotary valve style heads as experiments but largely ended up using the design as a throttle plate instead.
@@BigUriel What's the TBO on a RR Merlin under the same use?
I see no point in anything like that. There are already poppet valves at the top of the cylinder. Why on Earth leave those closed and have to create air paths and valves for these new ports?
Poppet valves can do half a billion or more cycles lol
Great video and thanks for explaining so well! I can't wait to hear what this sounds like
Making stuff overcomplicated, sounds very german.
Yes and it will work like magic for a short period of time then break and be economically unrepairable🙄
@@nicholasricci9760 remember that it should work with another kind of fuel as we have now. Who knows what exhaust will be there ?
@@markwilhelm168 yes good luck timing that up after repairs
@@nicholasricci9760 it is an EGR but without introducing hot exhaust and crud into the intake so it probably wont soot up
No repairs possible by end user, remove and replace entire power pack in case of failure....@@colinscutt5104
I think the most promising part of this design is that you can get a variable ratio of power out of the fist vs second combustion stroke. (In the most extreme cases, you could for example not send any fuel/air through in the scavenging phase and run only one combustion stroke in the whole 6-stroke cycle.) This gives you one more adjustment in the "power versus fuel consumption versus clean exhausts" tradeoff; in addition to valve timings, fuel mixture, compressor/turbocharger pressure, etc.
And the ring gear allows adjustment of the stroke lengths. Probably not really a lot of adjustment though, because any change in ring gear position will separate the two "first TDC" in height (it just rotates the figure shown at 2:37). And you can't really go a lot further upwards, or the piston will hit the cylinder head. So I'm not even sure if having that adjustability makes any sense or if it's just dead weight.
0:35 Its spelled Porsche but its pronounced "Throat Warbler Mangrove".
Nooo, it's pronounced becalicalu
Raymond Luxury Yacht?
@@valiantviktorno, you haven't. It's polystyrene!!!!!
😂
Nobody gaf
Great video! Really explained everything very well! Seriously good.
I was waiting for this, I knew you would make this video
This engine's main drawbacks all include vibrations. Can't balance an engine, big pistons, unbalanced connecting rods. And it would all be fine, maybe a bit tough on the engine cushions but that's it. If not for the gears. They are probably going to degrade extremely quickly with this amount of vibration.
I was thinking the same thing. It’ll run fine for awhile but eventually the cumulative effect of the vibrations will become apparent as various other components fail, especially if used as a traditional engine mated to a transmission and wheels where engine speed is constantly changing. It might have benefits in an application where it runs at a constant RPM and the vibrations can be nearly fully mitigated like an EV range extender or for power generation. However, the mitigation measures would likely add even more overall complexity and as things get more complicated they’re also more likely to fail.
Highly likely, but until someone drives it, who knows? 🤷♂️
They have probably figured it out and it balances itself. Porn, I mean Porsch, know what they are doing.
I don’t get the balance issue. You separate the 3 pistons by 120 degrees, A is balanced by B, B by C, C by A. A flat 6 seems like it would balance, 3 sets of 2 planetary gears offset by 180° for the pair and 120° each for the sets. Seems like you could draw a diagram of the vectors and have them all sum to 0. What am I missing?
That's not a bug, that's a FEATURE!
Came here for the engine breakdown video and stayed for the sick beats
Excellent video. I'm not a mechanic or engineer, but followed this easily. Nice job.
sounds like more points of failure, quadruple cost to parts, for small increase to power. guarenteed to have problems. guarenteed nightmare for technicans to repair
Definitively a nightmare to repair. But look at a modern car, compared to let's say a 20 yo. There's SO MUCH MORE points of failure it's insane. Sensors, tiny motors, electronics. But the rate of failure didn't really get that much higher. Just the cost of repair... And labor time. 😂
@@blackpete I was going to say the same thing, every modern car is a nightmare to repair.
But the double-backfiring will sound awesome 😁
Like so many of these ideas, a wank that will hopefully be forgotten.
We have too much complexity for too little gain in car engines already.
@@blackpetenot true, labor time went down, Acura is paying 9.0 Hrs to replace a crankshaft, I shit u not.
I liked the video preamble i.e. "No comments are required regarding for the pronunciation of Porsche". Quote "Pronunciation preferences that nobody cares about". This video deserves a thumbs up just for that preamble.
I'll gladly take a break from wrenching on my SV650 to watch a new video from you. 😎
UUUUh! I love me a sv650
SV650!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So good. I had two of those. The new design, obviously, with the straight edges
Beautiful bike sir.
K5 here 👍👍
What an eloquent and concise explaination. Thank-you!
I don’t understand why other companies haven’t jumped on Free Valve Technology. Koenigsegg has a 3 piston engine that puts out 600hp at the crank, and using this drastically increases fuel efficiency
They will not produce that engine) Currently there is no real engine with free valve.
Koennigsegg actually is really willing to work with content creators! There’s a guy somewhere on yt that claimed to have put freevalve tech in his Miata. I think that was when the system first blew up though, I don’t they still follow through with it
@@Valentin359Some dude on RUclips put free valve tech into his Miata. It's doable but costly - which is why it's not being done on scale
That’s what’s I am saying some of the modern 4 cylinders such as Mazdas 14.1 ratio sky active gas motor the 2.5 litter na would be a monster
See his video on this topic: ruclips.net/video/XV4NavUIznc/видео.html. Short version: normal VVT that's used in the majority of cars capture the majority of benefits of variable valve timing. Free Valve does have possible additional benefits for efficiency and power, but at too high of a dollar, complexity, and reliability cost.
So it’s almost like a normal 4 stroke with a 2 stroke assist half way through the cycle. Neat
This sounds like a very complicated way to make an oil and coolant milkshake.
Lecture is best as usual❤
Why do i get the vibe that they've blended a rotary with a piston engine, and some how made something with more parts to fail?
That's German engineering for ya
to me... they put a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke engine together and added variable compression...
@@tarpiddia ...with a mechanism which looks to have issues at high RPM (worm gears generate substantial speed reductions).
@@tz8785
The worm gear is only there to adjust the orientation of the variable compression graph.
It doesn't have all the sealing surfaces and springs that are the Achilles heel of a rotary, just standard piston rings.
There's an Ottoman proverb, "Galat-ı meşhur lugat-ı fasihten evladır" which roughly translates as "A common mistake beats the right word"
tell me more. rephrase that turkish saying and explain how did you connect it with this engine, if you could.
thanks
@@ivok9846 I meant the whole Porsche pronounciation prologue
@@igormaka so it's easier to do a common mistake than to use the right word, ie pronunciation....
yeah, that works, thanks
@@ivok9846 not just easier to use but easier to comprehend. Ottoman Turkish was full of those "common mistakes".
With the strong/weak combustion cycle(s), and with 6 cylinders (for example), this engine will be putting differential forces all along the crankshaft. BANG/bang BANG/bang, all along the shaft. I honestly don't see how this engine will do anything other than tear itself apart.
I know how it will work but I’m not going to say teehee
That's no different of any multi cylinder engine. The only difference is that in this case, a single engine act's on the crankshaft like a 2 cylinder engine. It will be just harder to compensate to avoid vibrations (As said in the video).
Add more pistons
I get the distinct impression this is one of those things that's put out there *_so_* it can be improved on. Perhaps they produce the iteration described, initially, and do as is always done and upgrade, simplify, and perfect based on various 3rd party expert feedback gained throughout this time and leading up to the revisions, and by taking note of real world failures/faults much the same.
I dont see this engine as more than a novelty.
You are so incredibly good in what you do!
Youre gonna hate this take - but it would probably make a really nice range extender.
the uneven strokes seem like they would be really good for particulates?
I was thinking the same thing. A small three cylinder, electric turbocharged version of this engine would be most clean and efficient at high load, which it would be when charging a large-ish EV battery. The little extra vibration from the less ideal balance would be offset by direct coupling to a large motor/generator. The worse efficiency at low load/idle would go away when the engine is off and the vehicle propelled by battery. The extra parts count of the engine is offset by simplifying or eliminating the transmission (either having direct drive only at highway cruise, or just always going through the electric motors like a train locomotive). The engine could also be simplified without variable cam timing, no EGR, simpler fuel injection since it would only have to run at peak efficiency in a small RPM range.
I had the same thought.
Seeing how the advantages are the mostly at higher RPM, a 3 cylinder 6 stroke sounds perfect for a range extender in a medium to big sized vehicle.
There's also the possibility to use this in motorsports - Formula 1 cars with these could be quite awesome and would be a good way to test and refine the principle.
This also could be a great principle for semi-mobile or stationary generators.
As much as I love fully electric cars, it's great to see new technologies like these - because there will be some usecases for ICE or hybrid cars for quite some time.
@@rhekman Perfect hybrid engine?
@@lewiszhou4056 Maybe. The devil is in the details. This design has the potential to generate the power of a 4 cylinder combustion engine using the packaging space and internal displacement of a 3 cyclinder.
However as mentioned in the video, it still has drawbacks. What are the friction losses of the crank ring/planet/eccentric assembly? Can such a tall piston be designed that is lightweight, but minimizes excess skirt friction while still sealing the scavenging ports? Can that piston and piston ring package seal reliably for hundreds of thousands of miles?
Combustion engines in production vehicles can now reach 40% or more thermal efficiency, i.e. converting nearly half the heat produced by burning fuel into useful work. I could see this six stroke design improving combustion efficiency and emissions by maximizing exhaust gas recirculation right in the cylinder. However other technologies would still have to be used to extract the most energy from the system. For example, an exhaust turbine coupled to an electric motor/generator (e-turbo) to apply boost to the scavenging ports and/or generate electricity. Also freevalve tech (eliminate camshafts and throttle plates to reduce pumping losses.
This all sounds crazy complex, but humanity has been improving and developing combustion engines for over 200 years because liquid hydrocarbon fuels are incredibly energy dense. Liquid fuels have real advantages when it comes to storage, transport and use in a wide range of environments. Gas and diesel have about 40 times the energy density of the best lithium batteries available today. The reason Battery Electric Vehicles finally became viable is because of the incredible leap lithium-ion was over previous lead-acid, NiCad, and NiMH chemistries.
So a hybrid car that uses a small ICE generator/range extender, combined with a mid-size battery pack that's not as heavy, wear-prone, and difficult to charge as a pure BEV could have a real impact on the market.
Range extenders will likely migrate to these new simple, light, rotary motors that work at one set rpm. This is stupidly complex for a range extender.
What about oil? This is one of the biggest problems with the 2-stroke engine. Here, the oil that normally stays inside the engine thanks to the piston seals, visibly passes through the little holes that the piston uncovers when it arrives at BDC 2. The oil that passed through the holes during the previous strokes can then go into the combustion chamber.
It seems to me that the problems of 2-stroke engines are not solved here.
Just use the diesel fuel itself in place of oil, problem solved. /s
I've always kind of wondered how this works with those opposed piston 2-stroke diesel engines. Do you think there's any chance D4A will do a video on the topic? If it needs to be tied in with recent-ish designs, there's a company called Achates Power that's been fiddling with this style of engine for the last 20 years.
@@BitterCynical Until you try starting the engine and hear that characteristic KRKRKRKRKRKRKRKRKR you 'd expect from a taxi.
In this case the ports do not open up to the crankcase. I would image fuel would be delivered by direct injection. But if you only use one injector per cylinder, how do you get the correct fuel mixture for the second combustion cycle?
Damn I'm embarrassed I didn't even think about the oil.
You forgot about the piston rings. 2 stroke engines and this one have holes in the cylinderwall. The piston rings will run over them so much, there will be stress on them. This will end in a really big service. Then, usually a 2 stroke has no straight engine oil. Its a mix of gasoline mixed with 2 stroke oil. Often 1:50. When the piston is in top position, the lower part of it can't close the intake holes to 100%. Result will be oil in them. When injecting, oil will go into the power / ignition cycle. Burned oil means bad exhaust gas values. That is the same problem the rotary / Wankel engines have.
So i would say, they can try to build the engine, but at the end, Porsche will have big problems, they don't see atm.
I bet they have anticipated this and plan to lean into high tech materials that will be unrepairable
2-strokes only need oil mixed with the fuel when they are using crankcase scavenging. Use a separate scavenging blower, as mentioned in the video, and the crankcase can be sealed and have a normal lubrication system.
@@DABrock-author but, when the scavenging port isn't covered by the piston, engine oil will splash into the port. It make sealing the port tricky. You'll need a long piston body to fully covered the port between TDC and BDC.
At that point might as well just use a wankel
@@KarrasBastomi Yes, the piston will still need to be long enough to cover the scavenging ports at TDC. I was only discussing the ’2-strokes have to have oil mixed into the fuel’ claim made in the OP.
I've seen this engine drawing with other channels, it looks like the deisgn is actually 100 years old ! maybe its another drawing Porsche 'found during a disagreement' and are now looking into it?
top job on the explaination, very good videos as always !
I wonder what a v9 6 stroke would sound like?
Roughly the same as flushing your money down the toilet.
"You can't make an uneven cylinder count V engine!" Wait, the VR5 exists. Now i want a VR9. Thank you for this wonderful thought. Or a VR15 or VR18 for Bugatti or Rolls Royce.
@@SrApathy33 and actual balanced V5 (not VR5) also existed as motorcycle engine (D4A made a vid bout it, if you dont know)
V11 lol
@@SrApathy33w30......
That engine is gunna be a nightmare to maintain
Why, all the maintenance components are the exact same.
Reliability is an unknown factor until Porsche builds a prototype and tests it.
Which German engine is not a nightmare to maintain. Germans are notorious to make difficult to tune engines and to provide as little documentation as possible. Here in US if you drive a German car you better be prepared to have that car serviced at the official dealer. On another hand if you have money for a German car you have enough money for dealer service.
The rich don't worry about cost to maintain 😂
@@deanosaur808 I’m not talking about cost so much as just having to deal with it
Damn Porsche is going out with a bang with this one.
…excuse me, don’t you mean “Porsche is going out with a bang (squeeze, bang) with this one?”
Nice job. As simple and understandable explanation as I've seen of this. That takes intelligence and understanding of the concept.
You can say Porsche however you want to.
12:16 Unburned fuel from the previous stroke mixed in with the exhaust will be burned, again, but we're adding more fuel again, which is probably gonna be burned with even less efficiency due to exhaust from the previous stroke polluting the mix, so I wonder if fuel combustion efficiency will improve at all with this design.
Could it be possible to add different quantities of fuel in those two phases? Adding less fuel in the second stroke would partially prevent the problem that you mention
Exactly my thoughts. You'd need a leaner mixture in the scavenging step for it to reduce emissions.
@@kanetw_ The latest gen of 911's have electric turbos in the hybrid models rolling out this year as well as insanely micromanaged intake manifolds/throttle bodies in the current GT3 iteration (they do it to time pressure waves and get crazy intake pressure from NA). The GT3 engine focuses on bore over stroke and the flat layout allows for pretty creative packaging, so this 6 stroke seems quite suitable for a hybridized flat-6 racing engine.
Turbocharging solves much of this along with a very powerful ecu
Blowby & piston ring problems ?
Nah, just use like 6 rings on each piston.
Only nice thing about it is the variable piston compression. Rest is... like.. "mo powa baby" is probably the last thing anybody asks for or needs nowadays.
Could be fun for motorcycles.
High and low rings?
with the long piston, not an issue with the right rings.. but if you were to control the side ports with a valve and use a shorter head, unless said valve was right on the wall, you'll be shooting oil down those passages every time the piston goes above them. That in turn would shoot the oil above the piston when it drops below them to scavenge.
2 stroke engines have not much of a problem with rings. But as said in the video, most probably in production those ports will be managed by something else.
It's cool, but there's just no way. The gains on paper just start evaporating when actual materials come into play. Trade the 6 strokes for higher rpm, trade the extra parts for higher grade parts, use a small high strung engine for power/efficiency and slap a pancake motor on it to get it rolling in the first place. We keep trying to crack this nut but the fact is ICE engineers did not spend the last 200 years twiddling their thumbs. The engines are pretty optimized at this point which is why every year some engineer comes out with some genius new ICE that's actually a sealing and friction nightmare.
Still it'd be really cool to be wrong and you're right this is a very Porsche solution. It's fun to still see some identity in a manufacturer.
The is about emissions..... A More powerful Engine without the increased emissions. Once you realize that....this is an awesome design.
No emission concerns, and yes it's wasted effort as all the things you mentioned (plus some you did not) could bring about the same power increase and then some.
Just with higher emissions .
@@johnnyringo35 We've had nuclear energy since the 80s, and emissions have been falling ever since. Germany is however still burning coal and has the highest emission of any country in the EU. The cars are not the problem.
More parts, especially the gears this has rotating at high speed= more failure and wear points, and if the oil ever gets low it could be even worse.
😂 emissions emissions, this is just a bullshit plan to control and restrict more the people who should be responsible for emissions is india pakistan and china not the Europeans
@@HobbyOrganist yea because rotating at high speed is a problem for gears 🙄
Kudos for a very lucid and excellent explanation.
Bloody genius! I’ve been to the Porsche factory in Weissach and they insisted in NDA and all cameras/phones (laptop cameras covered with tape) left at reception. Unsurprising as there were development and test mules all over the place.
There was a 6 stroke engine donkeys years ago. I mean over 50 years ago, cannot remember much about it now, but it had 2 compress bang cycles.
0:12 that’s a very american attitude for someone who isn’t american 😂
Well the American way is the right way, the Europeans simply do as they are told