Why Covert Narcissists Love Your Misfortune (Understanding Schadenfreude)
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- In this video I discuss the central role the emotion of schadenfreude (taking joy in the misfortune of others) takes in the mental life of the covert narcissist. I explain how schadenfreude is linked with envy and the psychological purpose schadenfreude serves for the covert narcissist.
In next week's video I will be looking at practical red flags to be aware of when it comes to schadenfreude operating within an individual.
Need more personalised help? I am available for online coaching sessions - visit the website below for more info.
vitalmind.com.... or email info@vitalmind.com.au
Abdul Saad
Clinical Psychologist
www.vitalmind.com.au
Facebook.com/vitalmindpsych
When a family member is like this, the most heartbreaking thing is not when they love your misfortune, even that can be glossed over. The most hearbreaking thing is when your hapiness causes them misery. The level of sadness you feel in this moment of realization is unimaginable.
When it’s your wife that delights in your pain
@@Clevelandsteamer324 And if there IS no pain, they will CREATE some ):
What's the most unfortunate thing about the covert narcissist's envy is that it is not bias; they envy their spouse and children too. So u can see how dangerous this pathological emotion is; they will scheme and plot your demise and sabotage your happiness!! Your misfortune is very fortunate to them. How sad that one has to be down for another to feel uplifted!!
Thanks Jassett - your comments are always insightful.
Jassett Treasure Stewart My dad.
My narcissist MIL schemed to turn her granddaughter against her own parents and took great satisfaction in doing it.
Jassett Treasure Stewart my mother.
Jassett Treasure Stewart
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Nothing hurts more than discovering the person that’s supposed to love you is JEALOUS of you...it’s a real shocker but don’t try to confront them run away and don’t look back, these people are sick and will never change
When my sister died suddenly and unexpectedly and I told this in my shock to the covert narcissist in my life at the time, she (the narcissist) smiled. It was momentary and then she put the mask back on and acted shocked and concerned but I know what I saw. It was something, a moment of evil I would say, that I will never forget.
Saw one give a great performance whilst I was going in for an operation ... a real ham !
Yes it's pretty terrifying when the mask comes off! they are master manipulators.
A smile can also be a defensive mechanism tho.
@@MrDzoni955 There is an awkward type of smile that people display when they don't know what to say in a situation. It is typically accompanied by other facial gestures that denote sympathy or regret, and if nothing else neutrality. The smile referred to here from the covert narcissist is often called " the cat who caught the canary smile" and it is denoted by a sense of smug self satisfaction. This is the wry smile of someone who couldn't be happier about the misfortune that others are experiencing. These covert narcissistic types typically keep up a good appearance to most, but they let that mask slip on occasion; especially when they are so overjoyed by your suffering they can't contain it. They don't typically have these joyful feelings; so it can take them by surprise. In fact one of the best ways to uncover a covert narcissist is to present them with an opportunity to show compassion and empathy towards someone or something, and then observe their behaviour. These people are typically not very good at feigning these emotions, and you can feel, hear, see, or otherwise sense the incongruity in what they are displaying, and what they are feeling inside.
That's really horrible, I'm so sorry!
I believe a very sick narcissist will CREATE circumstances so you do fail, so they can make misfortune for you. So, to feel this emotion. ‘Engineer’, was a great word you used.
I know (just know, not a friend) a female covert narcissist (extremely beautiful & sexy, also intelligent) who has spent most of her life since her teenage years treating hundreds of males like this (after a being very sweet in the beginning of the dating):
- If he does not have much money, but has other interests/talents like art/science/nature etc she will start to mock him for failing to become rich.
- If he is rich, and often therefore has spent most of his time/energy becoming rich, she will mock him for not being "deep" and philosophical.
Blumenaue I wholeheartedly agree...and they end up sabotaging themselves trying to Sabotage their target. Their judgment is severely flawed.
Yes. It's called sabotage. Create conditions for you to fail, while smiling too your face and pretending to be your biggest supporter.
Anita Barneycastle,
Only if the target eventually figures it all out. Some targets never do, and narcs get away with exploitation till the day they die.
I had this same thought -- what about folks that go this one step further? I wonder if they would be in the third stage category -- destroying their enemies as the "punitive avenger"...?
If you wanna see if you're dealing with a narcissist or not, share with them a recent incident that's both completely out of your control, and, causing you emotional or physical pain. The narcissist will find a way to make it your fault- even when it couldn't be.
Joseph G. Sounds interesting..
Or sometimes they will one-up you, and tell you that they had something worse happen to them, thereby making it all about them. And at the same time, making it seem like you are whining and complaining about nothing.
+ Joseph. That makes sense - the narc as a controller likes to think that even when bad things happen to them that they were the author - it ties in with new age garbage - as being Master of the Universe.
Iv'e seen that. Also, when the moment is proper, if you ask them what they would change in themselves, they will likely shift the responsibility from their own shoulders to something external, for instance "i'd like to have more money". If there is something wrong, it's not them, it's their external circmstances, which means the world, the other people, never them, they're never wrong. If anything, they're victims. Yuck.
@@recoveringsoul755 Yes, exactly. "NPD--it's all about me. Image is everything. Let's talk about me."
This video really helps explain why covert narcissists make such damaging parents. They envy their children and undermine their success in order to make these downward social comparisons that are so soothing for them. If nothing else, they'll be jealous of their own children's youth and potential.
Deborah Stokes .. This is My Mother who has told Me She Hates Me and is Jealous of Me. She stolen Money from Me and from My Son’s Money Box. Ridiculed and Publicly Humiliated Me.
It has Broken My Spirit.
Im working on understanding this topic and got the impression that mothers covers the majority of these parents.
My Mother told me she hated me, that I was evil and that no one would ever want me. I am 62 years old and even though I know that my mother was mentally ill, it has effected my whole life. I married a man I hardly knew to get out of my abusive home and he abused me and took delight in causing me pain for 25 years. When HE left me, I felt like my mother was right. She used to say as soon as anyone gets to know you they will drop you like a hot potato. If I had any self esteem I would have left him weeks after our marriage when his cruelty made me feel like I had jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I just cannot believe that anyone would want anything to do with me, the hot potato message is deeply ingrained.
So Cal Gardener They were projecting their self hatred onto you. If anyone ever got to know THEM, they wouldn't want anything to do with THEM. It's not you sweetie. You ARE loveable, and were targeted by them because you have Good qualities.
Karl-Otto Sandvik I believe statistically that there are more male narcissists than female. However, when it is a mother, it is particularly damaging to the children, because the mother is generally seen as the primary caregiver.
The more I watch your videos, the more I understand why suddenly, I had to cut many people out of my life! For good. No matter the consequences. Proof over proof over proof that I had so many narcissists around me. I felt like I couldn’t breathe anymore. I wish I had seen that 20 years ago! Thanks 🙏 doc!
Same here.
That is what worries me, it is not so rare. You are not alone! But, you are proof of the good that does exist in people around you too.
Me as well... I wish I realized it years ago, however need to focus on the future ✌🏼👍🏼
Ditto
Same, glad I found this channel.
It's unfortunate because I know certain people (esp. family and relatives) who feel this way. They pretend that they're concerned or worried but then they start gossiping and blaming!
Ah, the classic flying monkeys playing the one game they are good at
My mum feigns concern, but actually she’s thriving on other people’s unhappiness
There is not a language that can truly express my Gratitude for thie information you have been providing 😊
Sincerely!
He is um, just EVERYTHING.
German can... in this case
wow wow clean the board
Best help I’ve seen for a lifetime of anxious days. So grateful.
Italian for Scadenfruede is “gioia maligna “ (geeoya mahleenya) malignant joy.
Fascinating! It will be interesting to compare this across the global language spectrum. Wonderful way to engage your audience with this informative (and comforting) video content. Thank you, Dr. Saad for sharing your time and knowledge with us. The knowledge I am receiving from your videos is helping me to understand what I’ve experienced and to step onto the path of healing. You’ve helped me to gain a more proper perspective of my own behavior as it relates to these very difficult and painful relationships with narcissistic individuals.
Thanks for the Italian way of saying schadenfreude. I am glad the videos are helping.
“Malignant Joy”, what a perfect description.
In Norwegian it is 'skadefryd'. It's odd how closely this word sounds across otherwise different languages. 'Skade' - (to)harm, damage - 'fryd' - joy, happiness. Clearly, the damaging issues surrounding narcissism have been known across the world for a long time.
Ms Cooper isn't Goya also a gentile? 😂
In dutch; leedvermaak
When they are family members it really puts it on another level
In Jamaica this is what we call “Bad Mind” 🇯🇲
YASSS!
Yes!
Bad mind/Red eye!
This made Me Cry .. My Mother is a Covert Narcissist. It has left Me Broke and Broken, Physically Unwell, I have Anxiety and Panic Attacks.
It is Soul Destroying 💔
Boundaries .. Self Love .. Healing .. Faith .. Hope.
I Greatly Value Your Insight and Knowledge. Thank You.
hope you feel better real soon Ms. Kitty...
bebop54 .. Me Too .. Thank You 💛
All the best for you and your healing journey!
I know how you feel. No one else who has not gone thru what you experienced, will understand what this hurt really feels like. A BIG hug from me to you! You are not alone.....I am in tears too.....reading this.
Ms Kitty I am crying too I just found this good doctor’s video. I am watching one after another reading every single comment. I am starving for information, I did not know there was a word for what my mother is. I am 64 years old she is 84. Today I am finally getting insight on the question of “why” that I’ve been asking all of my life. I do need this compassionate doctors help but I am broke also. Soon to be homeless, mentally and physically broken. I am all alone every day. I’ve been researching and I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not lonely but just alone. But there’s only so much comfort I can get for this new information. Before a few weeks ago I did not know the true definition of a narcissist was and I still can’t believe they’re really out there. But this describes my mother perfectly. I used to ask my grandma when my Son was born why my mother will not oversee him while I’m struggling to raise him. Several times she said that she was jealous. Now that I have my own son I still can’t understand how a mother can possibly not want to watch him grow up and do everything humanly possible to help him succeed with confidence. Dear Dr. Saad, if you are reading this I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the kindness you have given with these videos. I will add that I have been in therapy for over 16 years but each individual just sits and listens.
اللهم إنا نعوذ بك من جهد البلاء ودرك الشقاء وسوء القضاء *وشماتة الاعداء*
Dr Abdul! Thank you so much. You are a blessing.
بارك الله فيك وشكرا جزيلا
اذا تحدث كذب ،اذا ائتمن خان، اذا وعد اخلف و أذا خاصم فجر؟؟؟ رائك يا دكتور ان فيهم صفات المنافق؟ انا مش متدين اوي بس قرب الوصف رهيب!
Think Think في عرب اخيييرا 🔊😀
Dr., could you explain the difference between narcissism and psychopathy? To me it seems like there is a difference in the understanding of these two notions in different countries.
Harm + Joy = Profound Sadism. A most complete and insidious evil that far surpasses abuse, and instead premeditatively tortures.
I had a "friend" who was a covert narcissist. She was so envious of me, there wasn't much misfortune in my life. She had a ton of learning disabilities, and I used to help her with her papers. She was incredibly ungrateful. Me having ADD, but having accepted every piece of myself, she would go on and on about how I was always so bad at managing my time. She would not be able to stop laughing about it. The funny thing is it wouldn't even bother me, but she just kept going on and on it was so clear to me she was envious and all she could come up with was me being bad at timemanagement lol. I secretely felt flattered. As school ended, we drifted apart because I couldn't do anything for her of course. And I ofcourse grew tired of her ways, I confronted her many times which only led her to manipulate more sophisticatedly. Until a few months later, she was getting married to a poor guy she just met and she wanted me to be there as her "friend". I politely declined, while carefully outlining all the problems I experienced with her still despite having talked to her about it multiple times. I told her she was acting like she thought I wanted her to act, and that I had a strange way of bringing her insecurities to the surface. She got enraged, and her envy shined through brighter than ever before. I saw how she hated me for my good character, she forcefully denied me having a good influence on her ( I didn't even mention that, so I found that odd). I remember feeling confused before this all happened. I saw her potential, I was addicted to her potential as a slightly codependent empath. I prayed to God to let me make the right decision about this "friendship". As a response I got an irresistible inner knowing that urged me to end the friendship. It was like nothing I had ever felt before, I could not even concentrate on my studies as that thought accompanied with a feeling of impending doom took over my entire mood those days. Only when I did it I felt this huge psychological relief. I'm so glad I discarded her before she was inevitably going to discard me after her wedding. Bye Felicia 🙋
Thanks! I'd also like to know how to deal with the anxiety produced when you know people in your life are waiting - SALIVATING - to see you fail. I have some people like that in my family. I used to have more anxiety about it, but now I just don't share as much information about my life. It's been a huge relief. Now they don't even know when I'm trying and failing. They'll hear when I'm successful and suck up then as if they'd always been there to support me.
No contact.
It's relatively easy to decide no contact with an ex, an immature friend or a bad work environment. You can just quit it. Family is more complicated. There's two family members I'm very low contact with only to retain relationships with the rest of my naive family members.
Lex And they will often try to take credit for your work, or imply that they helped you
Minimal contact and meditation and spiritual studies to grow in your personal awareness and strength.
But reduce the attention slowly, or they go into devalue and discard mode! Give them less attention but taper it down. Make up some solid reason why you need to give them less attention. Don't allow them to engulf. Act confused. Pretend you didn't hear etc. And just keep nodding along to their nonsense but do what you think is best, covertly. And keep up your relationships with the good relatives and extended family and neighbours and family friends. This last bit is important. You will have to overcome social anxiety and do it.
Interestingly, 'schaden' sounds like 'sadist'--which is precisely what the covert narcissist is.
Schaden means something like damage.
Symbolsysteme: Hmmm...very fitting....that's exactly what narcs are--damaged!
Yes, these are very sick people. We can only hope through rising awareness that more and more people will see through them. If they can't fool anyone anymore, they maybe have a chance to change. This would be a great shift for human kind, because the whole capitalistic system is infiltrated by narcissistic dynamics.
Symbolsysteme - Indeed.
Symbolsysteme The subject should be taught in elementary school. So many children would be helped. The problem of course, is that sometimes the teachers are Narcissists themselves.
Dr. Saad - I think that you are truly wonderful - you're grasp of these disorders is perfect! Which hasn't always been my experience with psychologists. I used to be a huge fan of Dr. Masterson but he was not able to really explain Narcissism to the lay person the way that you do. You do a fabulous job! I wish that every single human being would watch your videos. They are that good! I wish that I could carry you around all day in my purse and bring you out like a magic genie whenever the need arose. I hope you never die and you never stop instructing us! Blessings on you!
Very kind of you, thank you.
I feel the same way. Dr. Saad has helped me so much. I wish I knew before I married about covert narcissism. I could have prevented so much pain in my life. Dr. Saad is like a loving father when you talk with him in counselling. Such a blessing!!!
+Susan Feis: I'm not sure we would have recognized their narcissism beforehand -they are experts at the 'covert' part of this dysfunctional personality.
I have been experiencing this phenomena for many years with my mother. She truly takes delight when things go badly in my life, yet conversely, she often mimics me- to the point where she will purchase the exact same products she sees me use, will style her hair like mine, and the like-very subtle forms of imitation, all the while, continuing to be quite nasty in covert ways. I now realize this behavior has been going on my entire life. When I was a child, she did her best to fill me with insecurities and self doubt. Sadly for me, it worked quite well for many years. However, I began to see exactly what she had been doing about 10 years ago. I no longer fall for it. Period. This has been infuriating for her-the stronger and healthier I become, the more hostile and evil she becomes. I'd love some tips on how best to deal with her. Thank you so much for this informative series!!
she sounds like a threat. i would stay away from her, as Z3r0 said.
this is not advisable but this is what i do on the rare occasions that my mom has any contact with me: if my mother starts asking a million questions (because of her jealousy), i either tell her all about the great things i'll be doing and/or buying or i'll rub things in by talking about how her husband doesn't treat her with dignity. what goes on in my life is none of her business, so she shouldn't have been asking in the first place. i'll even add extra stuff in there that i won't actually be doing, but because it makes her jealous, i'll add it in. she doesn't deserve anything less. i know that's bad advise, but just enjoy your successes instead and keep taking care of yourself and loving yourself more and more. (i was just tired of her stalking, so i started rubbing things in.)
Please go No Contact with your mother. Move away without warning. Change your number and email. If she's getting more hostile, who knows what she might do to harm you, your career, or your loved ones. Non-violent narcissists are only non-violent because they have obtained their pleasure without the need for violence. Once they no longer get their pleasure ('Narcissistic Supply'), who knows what they will be driven to.
My, usually, non-violent narcissist father tried to strangle/break my neck when his Narcissistic Supply was curtailed. The mask finally slipped.
Why would you want to stick around for more punishment? Guilt? You have nothing to feel guilty about, except the guilt-trip that she has laid on you. Ask yourself, if you weren't related to this women, would you have anything whatsoever to do with her?
My wife's mother purchased the same car a year after my wife, and then accused my wife of having "copied" HER! Incredible. And said to her, "I would never copy you in anything." Crazy times.
In serbo-croatian language : "radovanje tuđoj nesreći" ("enjoy in someone else misfortune").
But, we also have proverb : "da komšiji crkne krava" ("let my neighboorˇs cow drop dead")
In our people cow is symbol of welth.
Serbo-croatian or serbian, croatian, bosnian and montenegrian language,as trhey call it today, is fonetic language (pronounced how it is written).
Hungarian language also fonetic. We have a quite similar proverb: "Dögöljön meg a szomszéd tehene is" It means something like: "My neighboor's cow drop dead too" - so if I have trouble I wish the same trouble to my neighboor... very kind. :D
We don’t mind your handwriting. We are here for psychology not calligraphy. 😁
Thank you.
This is one of my favourite comments.
Missy Sterling
Well said
I see in this handwriting someone who is hurting, which saddens me, but then, how can we truly teach, unless we have been there,to some degree or other ...
@@vitalmindcoaching -- But noticed your writing slopes downward; hope that doesn't mean you're depressed!
This actually leads to a vicious cycle of masochism where you generate misery for yourself in order to please the narcissist or to save yourself from their wrath.
Crossing the Borderline yes!!!
Thank you..."Gloat" is maybe a close relative to the sentiment that moves Schadenfreude...
Iaia mare Good point. Well spotted.
They gloat how Demonic they are.....
Gloat doesn’t communicate the emotions of joy & suffering together in one shared moment.
Gloat is more akin to ridicule or one upmanship, there’s no exact word in English as there is in other languages.
In this culture, it’s firstly an unmentionable concept & secondly, English is a trading language rather than one that profoundly & accurately describes the depth of emotions ( as do others mentioned in this thread).
There are no declinations & conjugations, so there’s not the subtlety of meaning.
Functional language of information so often a phrase is used whereas in other languages, there’s an actual word.
Thank you, thank you! You've nailed my PhD ex except that he also engineered a lot of tragedy in my life. He had to do all he could to destroy me. We need more info about the "covert" narcissist/psychopath. That trait made it difficult for me to understand what psychologists were telling me about him because he came across as very humble not grandiose ----- until the day his mask dropped. He was a completely different person that day ----- very grandiose. I was his only target. He made sure I lost everything and everyone I ever loved ----- including our children. I now have 2 forms of stage 4 breast cancer. He actually used to ask me, "Don't you KNOW I am envious of you because you can feel! You are happy!" I would respond incredulously, "WHY would you envy ME?" It tooks years of intense therapy to recover from the mind fuck and undermining and loss of my beloved children. I didn't know to trust my guts before I married him because I was born into a evangelical fundamentalist/cult religion that taught me not to trust my own reality. I am an empath and had no clue that there are people that do not have empathy ----- at that point in time. I would say in English we call it "sadism" after the Marque de Sade.
Diana Lee Lee , I have experienced similar. It has taken me decades to see a pattern. He does not want me to be happy period. May you gain strength and healing that will translate to physical healing as well. God bless.
Thanks!!! xoxox
I had the same and even now after separation for many years and no contact with him at all he exhibits this towards his grown up children.... in the meantime I have felt pity for him because it must be awful not to feel empathy
Do your grown children recognize what he is? Do they have a happy life with you? I'm glad you survived!!!!
My MIL has turned our daughter against me and my husband. MIL has been trying for 36 years to destroy our marriage. My husband and I just learned about narcissism in the past year and are finally onto what she is. These people are evil.
These people are very dangerous in a passive aggressive way
Or covertly aggressive....see *In Sheep's Clothing* by Dr. George Simon. Awesome book.imho.
So true! Very shallow.
True because u dont know your being abused u know something's not right but cant pin point it
Yes they are massively passive aggressive
Laeh Guillory,hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹🌹🥀!
विघ्नसंतोषी (adj) [Vighna-Santoshi], is a person who derives pleasure from other people’s miseries in Marathi (Indian language).
Woah. You saved my time. I was just wondering where I would start. But even though the term may have become popular recently, narcs have been there since the beginning of humanity and scriptures have described them very well. Especially in an archetypal way. It's useful to study truth from each perspective or medium. Science, scriptures, art, stories.
@@montelo555 yes isn't it peculiar and telling that there is an expression for this weird twisted means of gratification in *so* many languages?
My ex nc husband enjoyed when I hurt myself, for example dropping hot coffee on me or getting a bee stinge. This was cruel, no empathy, only smirking on his side and shouting at me, how stupid I am.
"Schaden" in german means also damage.
Also if something good happens in your life, they will try to ruin it. Instead of being happy for you. It is so confusing at first.
i'm sorry, Karen. i hope you are ok now and will be able to heal from it. people who are cruel to others will reap what they sow. i've seen it happen many times.
@@a.ashley5292 - thank you for your kind words. Yes, I healed from it after divorcing him, but it took me some years. I developed and grew, he doesn't. 50 now with a mindset of a 14 year old.
Our son is 17 now and don't feel like visiting him anymore (he used to shout at him and name call him... his excuse: I am only joking)
i'm glad you're doing better. i don't know if this will help your son or not but when i didn't have a mother or father to help me, i started listening to sermons from T.D. Jakes who taught me that God will be a father to the fatherless. he has many sermons on youtube in case your son ever needs an emotional boost or any guidance from a male figure who has a big heart when it comes to caring for people. :)
My soon to be ex husband reveled in my pain - no matter how big or small. He would instantly become calm and get this weird smirk on his face. God bless you for surviving (and I hope you’re thriving now). 💛
My parent was,and siblings are toxically envious, they attempt to sabotage any positive momentum and experience great joy in the failure or pain of others, especially within the family. Once I became aware of this, I limited my interactions with them and completely cut contact with one of them. I find this scary and disturbing ,and the delight of which they relish others pain is nothing short of evil! I enjoy your videos and your original take on these issues and i learn alot from you. You have a very calm, warm, assuring prescence. Thankyou for sharing with us.
There is a word for it in Russian that has exactly the same meaning - “злорадство”. Where “зло” is evil “радство” is “joy”
Elena Razenko Serbian word is "Zluradost".
In Dutch it is -leedvermaak- translated to english - malicious pleasure
Same in Serbian.
This Russian word sounds as [zlarAtstva] in spoken speech and transliterated as "Zloradstvo"
Canadian English= Sadist. Someone who takes pleasure in your pain. I really enjoy and am hugely informed by your videos. Thanks for all the hard work!
Tami D,hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too beautiful 🥀🌺🌹🌹!
@@oscarwilliamson1264 Thanks for your lovely comment! Been there done that. ☺ Stay safe. ❤
@@tamideibel you are welcome my dearest 🌹🌷🌺🌹🌹🌷🌷🌺.I'm Oscar Williamson from the States ❤️.You?
@@tamideibel which country are you from?
Perfect bullseye. This is what I termed the CN human step stool pirouette. It is the opportunist mindset of when you fall I am happy to step on you to elevate myself... even if it is just a millisecond of a upward motion. In that moment, the slight smile, smirk of joy, or happiness in the voice is always present in the satisfied affirmation that enduring your annoying presence has finally proved useful and they are brilliant for doing so. Once you recognize it, it is impossible not to see it. Disturbing to behold every time.
Karen Tormey Well said. I couldn’t agree more. Disturbing ! When I finally saw the mask fall off of the CN, the shock to my system has propelled me to seek help for my obsessive codependent relationship with this person. To try to understand what within me attracts and is attracted to these disordered people in the hopes of healing ; perhaps gradually but most assuredly. Thank God I was finally disturbed enough to face my denial and walk away. I now see how toxic envy drove and drives this person. The “bodies “ of those closest to this person have tire marks on them having been run over repeatedly by a person who has no remorse, no empathy and justifies his actions or lack thereof . Then, seemingly can go ahead on his merry way while his victims lay dying. Disturbing and dangerous ! especially when the CN cloaks him/herself in religiosity. The manipulation and control , the gaslighting using guilt and religious jargon is mind numbing. Listening to these videos is vindicating for me. Comments like yours let me know I am not alone and my perceptions are correct.
I didn’t mean to go on and on....I guess the word “disturbing ‘ really resonated.
To experience pleasure or joy, or humiliation from others misfortune. I knew I wasn't crazy.!
Sirley Ray - Same here!
Feeling crazy seems to be a common feeling among those who have been fooled and used by these people.
did you watch the video
That and the fact that often times the narc sets you up for the misfortune.
@@pennyatherton3892 i had a narcissistic "friend" who went as far as hiding the keys to the truck after i had set them down, i remembered were i had set them down, he moved them, took them, hid them and watched me freak out looking for them for 3 hours, reaaaaally weird behaviour
In Bulgarian (in one particular area - Vratza) they have a word "музовир" [muzovir] meaning to make bad things to others just for the pleasure for seeing them suffer.
In finnish it schadenfreude is called 'vahingonilo' which literally means the joy of accident.
2 Where the main things that caused the fall of man kind. First one was the Lie and 2nd was the Envy. If you notice them in your human encounter dont take them lightly its serious buissness
Being a Psych graduate and having been in close contact with a lot of narcissists, who gloat at others, I find this absolutely fascinating.
Thank you for this video, which like all of yours are spot on. You mentioned this "schadenfreude" exhibited by the covert narcissist is derived from a passive observation of the misfortune of another. What of the victim who has been discarded by the narcissist deliberately at a monumental time in the victims life, with the intent of leaving a lasting scar on the victims psyche'? Be it a negative or positive time; say a monumental loss or what was to be a wonderful event in the victims life. In other words, the narcissist has taken an active role in setting up the victims demise.
Again, thank you for your contribution. This disorder appears to be a rising tide in society, thus this information is invaluable and certainly necessary for victims, especially those of the empathic ilk.
As an aside. This information really needs to be embraced by the judicial system. Narcissist use the court system, particularly, "family court", to wreak havoc on their victims lives.
Thank you Dr. Saad for the extraordinary series. That is all so true, I know from personal experience. The only problem is that the narc is not able to comprehend that practising Schadenfreude on their nearest, they are cutting the branch they are sitting on. May be they are dilusional about the fact that they may fall with the cut branch. Probably because they think they are entitled to not falling under natural law.
A true Narcissist will sink the lifeboat that's saving him if they get offended.
Pfsif Yup. They will hurt themselves in order to hurt another.
My nearest friend of 20 years did this. We were going to move them out of an expensive rental into my home. Short story: delay delay delay for months of me in holding pattern. Then didn't happen. Cost me a lot financially and emotionally. I will not ever let them in my home. There is no fixing the relationship- nor have they even offered an apology. Be thankful when people show themselves for what they really are!
I recently had this happen to me by a woman who asked to stay with me. I was telling her about a character assassination (which was started by the very person who paid this woman to pretend to befriend me and be a flying monkey in my house and report back to the narcs on everything happening with me) that went into full throttle several years ago. This woman literally smiled when I told her how devastating it was for me. A few days later when she lied about something and started to unveil her mask even more, I called her out on smiling at my downfall & mentioned it was something my mother used to do to me too. She gave a very lame excuse. Soon after, I asked her to leave. Good riddance. Thank you for your vids and wise words.
Thanks for sharing and I think next week's video will shed more light on your experience.
Thank you, I will be looking forward to the vid. Take care.
+ L B. The sheer nerve/low IQ factor for the conniving narcissist to say "when I was teasing you." Robot Lizards.
I liken their response to others trauma or misfortune at the hands of themselves or another ... as brain orgasm . My personal experienced has witnessed this very controlled ecstatic euphoria that they experience . It is very sinister . I tried to reason with my Narc ... because as an empath you pick up on this...but this was before I completely understood narcissism NPD and BPD. They live for it , drama. Schadenfreude = brain orgasms . Excellent video
Heather,you got a smile 😊 that can make the news
me and my husband use to go to the bar for dinner and drinks together until i caught on to the fact that he would insult the waiter before he would allow them to fix our drink , it was so embarrassing for me that i would always find myself apologizing for him, that was it for me, now he wonders why i never go out with him anymore, seems he is getting worst with interactions in the public now even if he is out alone... sad
The epitome of pure evil. To gain off others pain. Disgusting bottom feeders !
Yep they are lower than a snakes belly!
sounds like capitalism.
@@watchWorld100 better than socialism shm
Funny...my soon to be ex narc said to me one day....."how come I don't have joy like you and your so happy All the time?" Hindsight is twenty twenty!
"Skadeglädje" in Swedish. And yes, I recognize it very much. Not only in relationship to me and others, but also in an obsession to watch car crashes on youtube, etc.
Emma Stenstrom,hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too pretty!🌹🌹🌷🌷🌺
My covert narcissistic ex enjoys any misfortune and pain I suffer because she needs to believe that she was the best thing and the only good thing in my life. She needs to believe I cannot be happy without her and that my life is a failure, and if I am suffering, this confirms it - in her mind.
She has intentionally manufactured situations designed to cause me to have massive feelings of jealousy and to feel inadequate compared to her new boyfriend. She definitely wants me to feel like a loser.
The healing can take a long time. Fully accepting what happened is very important. Well done.
Great! In Jamaican Patois it like we would say "Bad mind" meaning they have bad intent to anyone who seems to be doing better in life than they are based on their deep seated envious nature. Hope this is helpful. Thanks for all the excellent professional information.
A covert narcissist in my life put herself in control of a prayer group in church in order to feed off other's misfortune. She even boasted to me once that it was an excellent place for hearing gossip. She would also divulge information she would have (in the form of concern) to me as to extend the pleasure. I could see the satisfaction in her face.
Love ALL of your information on narcissists... it's Extremely helpful. Thank you so much.....
Thank you and my pleasure.
Agree. Thank you. Do you have anything on playing offense rather than defense with a covert narcissist?
:)
Hi Brandy, I think the acquisition of this kind of knowledge in itself is a great start, as I'm sure you've realised. It's like they see your newfound knowledge as 'armour' and know that it's quickly becoming too inefficient to waste their energy on using you as their supply. In certain circumstances this can have negative side effects though. Say if it were your partner and you're usually their main target, but then you arm yourself with this knowledge, if you have kids they could end up absorbing the energy you usually take. So while you get to catch a break, it could be the kids (or someone else like say their sick, elderly parents) taking the fall for you. Don't take this as a "you should just lie down and take it", more as a "be careful what you wish for".
Another dynamic to consider is that when you start to learn how they operate and start pushing their buttons it's kind of raising the stakes in a way because if you get too cocky/dumb and do something really drastic like "out" them in public, and they're really 'pathological' (I think that's the right word), you could get yourself or someone else into some real danger. Just something to keep in mind when planning to go on the offensive. Good luck on your journey.
@Yeahnahsweetas - this is definitely happening with regard to the partner - child triangle. Thank you for confirming it. I am working to walk carefully, but not on eggshells. Please keep me in thoughts and prayers.
Great explanation...I've seen this so much in different people over the years and until we understand the energy at work it can be confusing..But its only a temporary relief for these empty evil and envious disordered shells on there way to self destruction..Thanks for your work..
Nicky mullally well put.it's horrific encountering this evil.
In Hebrew there's an idiom called "Simkha laid" meaning the same concept - to have joy of someone's downfall, it's from the Bible book of proverbs "שמחה לאיד"
very interesting. where is this in the book of proverbs?
I love that you say “God willing”. It reminds me of my mother .
Dianne Christensen,your pretty smile ☺️ can make the news!
Злорадство (Zloradstvо) in Russian. Much of the great literature of our classics, especially Dostoevsky, are analyses of envy & revenge, personality types & human interaction between the sociopolitical world & the meaning making process of the individual.
It's a strain of sadism is it not?
They are sadistic predators
That's what I thought too. :)
You can see the covert narcissist feel smug satisfied and content knowing the misfortune of others. They are gleeful, delightful, joyful of the pain happened onto someone they knew or know. Or yourself.
It's a scary experience - it happened to me. Now I had gotten a glimpse behind the mask. Not pretty.
Yes I have experienced this many times, the fun part is when something happens to them the whole world must stop and you have to have empathy for them! nutcases
Thank you Doc:) I appreciate your work:)
in Romanian = harm = rau......joy = fericire.....
so, one would say: Fericire rea (fericire is feminine so rau becomes the feminine version which is rea and in Romanian the noun goes first otherwise, rea fericire is generally awkward but it can be used in certain instances when one must put an extra emphasis on this statement but then it becomes Rea Fericirea. I love your lectures. Thank you.
Thanks L Brad.
Never heard of such term in Romanian. We usually say that one's happy for another's harm (rau) or unhappiness.
That is true Begonia Tabriz but the speaker asked for the translation of the word as he explained it in his video as used in the field of psychology and not everyday language. Not all languages have an exact translation as I read on wickipedia (link provided)
here in ireland we have begrudgery a dislike of people getting ahead or having any sort of luck its rampent over here
There’s an exact antonym for that word. It is not common so it slips my mind right now. What’s interesting is both the covert narc and the psychopath claimed that their highest desire and pleasure is to please me. So easy during the idealization phase. It was a tool to use during devaluation. They really effected cognitive dissonance with their duplicitousness.
Yes the idealization phase sets the stage for future gaslighting - something I plan to address in more detail in a future video series.
On the East coast USA, a schadenfreude(r) would translate
as a person who is a hater!
You have just changed my life with this video and the one after about 5 reasons. I can now hold my head up high and move on. Thank you very much for your amazing work. Xx
Now it makes sense why covert narcissist are often in helping types of professions. When they see others suffering for whatever reason they can make that downward social comparison and as a bonus get to be put on a sort of pedestal by the people they are helping
Thank you for answering the question I’ve wondered about for years. My Dad was a Marine who never rose above Sargent because he didn’t have a college degree. He treated me horribly throughout my childhood and adolescence. As a child I was told to stop crying, or he would give me something to cry about, so I became pretty stoic. After a while I would notice that he would come home from work and start picking on me (verbal and physical abuse) and would escalate. He wouldn’t stop till he had me crying and then he seemed sort of self satisfied and leave me alone (till the next night or two). I could never figure out what kind of reward he was getting from trying to destroy a child. This video explains it (of course he simply displaced his anger on me, rather than upward). Thanks again.
In Dutch this would translate as "leed vermaak", so enjoyment over suffering.
If I understand your explanation correctly, the covert narc derives a kind of "soul nutrition" from someone else's suffering. They get a kind of inner relief from feeling better than the other, since the other one "falls down" in their eyes, and they then can feel better than the one suffering.
Hence this persistent need for causing harm and emotional suffering with others.
In Chinese: 幸灾乐祸, xing zai le huo. The best English translation is to gloat. But taken separately, the characters seem to imply that someone's misfortunes make you laugh, make you feel fortunate. :( It's exactly as Dr. Saad described in the covert narcissist's dispositional schadenfreude pathology. This is chilling stuff, and thank you for helping us confused people break it down and analyze it.
They are deeply disturbed people...... instead of improving themselves to be a better person in some lacking areas of their life, they enjoy in misfortune of others. But that is instant and empty joy, only bust to their ego but later on they are again empty and shallow people. Instead of finding some happiness in their own life they disturbing others. It is very dangerous when they sabotage others on purpose, just to have joy for themselves and to prove that others don't have qualities which they actually really have through arranging situations and sabotaging people's life and careers, discrediting others and smearing them. So they live in a lie and they know that is a lie - where is a happiness there? Only bust for a fragile ego. They are incapable for true happiness and love for others and consequently themselves. What a sad and empty life; what a waist of a beautiful things like life, happiness, friendship, love, success..... I believe that deep down they know how empty they are and because of that they are never truly happy and fulfilled. I think that is the reason why they like misfortune of others - because they cannot enjoy life in full they enjoy seeing others unhappiness. Instead of looking their lives they look at others and disrupt others. It is very easy to make someone sad but to make others happy that is truly amazing.
I bet it is uncomfortable on both ends. Being one - and being around one.
knut riis definitely, that is the reason why you need to go and never look back!
Hard to do - but yes
Very good analysis! I knew several of these people and for some of them I sometimes thought they could be great and beautyful people if they would only be themselves instead of being focused on other people's misfortune.. it's really so sad..
@@MrKnutriis covert narcs lead empty lives.They only thing they are concerned about is appearances to other people.They don't have empathy or compassion.They have a way also of sometimes giving compassion to people in a way which makes people feel small and pathetic..look at all the trouble you are causing me sort of thing.
It amazes me every time how you so aptly describe someone you never met: my ex-boyfriend, whose capacity for pathological envy had no end.
my sister suffers from this with me. I was so unaware for years. My mother warned me and said she had the " Green Monster" for me and that I needed to protect myself. It has gotten so awful that I don't and can't have any contact with her.
I’ve watched a lot of channels of narcissism and yours is by far the most educational. I think that’s because you’re speaking from a clinical perspective. Not many therapists understand narcissism
In America, it's pronounced divorce court.
Anthony Raynes 😂
LOL good observation!
LOL
😂😂😂😂👍👍
That's hilarious.
Russian version of Schadenfreude: "злорадство" (zlor`adstvo), which is a combination of "зло" (evil, harm) and a derivative of "радость" (joy, gladness). Ukrainian version: "зловтіха"(zlovt`ikha)="зло" (same as in Russian)+"втіха" (delight, pleasure). Thank you, Dr. Saad, for continuing your narcissism series! Your videos are very informative, and the explanations are very clear.
In malaysia, something like this when you laugh at someone who has misfortune and feel grandiosity. In english it means "serves you right" like "you deserve your misfortune". Malay says "Padan muka" means Padan is serves or deserves and muka is face or your face. So its you deserve the face. Like when someone steals a womans bag and get hit by an incoming car. People say padan muka. But narcissist who sees their victim lose their beloved material posession. The same word padan muka prevails. You deserve the loss.
not dispositional
I have experienced this emotion first hand. I saw that self satisfying, psychotic, evil grin, while I was having an emotional melt down. It totally caught me off guard. I had to suppress my initial reaction to it, so I could process my observation and do a reality check. I had no idea there was a clinical name for it. Last week, I ended my 4 year cycle of emotional and financial abuse. Right now, I still feel hurt and confused, even though I have gone completely no contact. It's like ptsd or maybe fear that I will have to confront him, before I'm ready. I'm very grateful that these videos are available. I'm hopeful I can better understand the how and why of what I have been through. I need to free myself, heal and rebuild my life. Thank you for sharing. I can totally relate. The more I learn, the easier it will be to move on. Taking it one day at a time.
Betty Datar, you deserve better
Duping Delight may be noter way to describe how these individuals feel
You immediately have a new subscriber. I have experiencpd this problem from people all of my life! I am shaking now. Not to brag, but I was incredibly beautiful and intelligent and one person who hated me for that was a sister. When I had my first eye injury and my eye turned inward and face twisted my sister got a HUGE SMILE on her face and wouldn’t stop smiling as we were walking down the street. She was always so ashamed of herself in every situation because she never could live up to me. Her head was always hung in shame! My second eye injury was more damaging and that thrilled her! Holy!
There’s an equivalent proverb in Chinese: xìng zāi lè huò 幸災樂禍. The 4 words literally mean “Lucky Disaster Happy Misfortune.” It’s a two-thousand year old concept as scholars have found the term used in ancient writing to describe the feeling of luck and joy in watching others’ disaster and misfortune.
The word helps me to understand now why my ex would laugh (all of the time) at the demise of others. Drove me mad. Yes, I got emotional.
Also, does this word by definition describe a covert narcissist when they don’t help when you’re sick? Birthing babies? I swear he LOVED when I became ill or was having difficulty with a chore (heavy lifting for example). ????
Thank you Dr. Saad. This makes me wonder if the times that the narcissist remembers to fake empathy and care, if s/he is actually demonstrating a form of pleasure at someone’s misfortune.
I'l touch on your question in next week's video, Ruby. Thanks.
Vital Mind Psychology looking forward. I’m finding that your videos and your clinical style presentation are more helpful to my own growth of character, also in leaving the past behind, than the emotional ones have. The emotional ones certainty have their place, especially in understanding that we’re not alone and in “getting it all out” but yours have been better for allowing a more objective experience - so to move beyond being stuck in the past and worrying about the future. Just getting my mind free of the looping thoughts over it all has been pure gold and I can’t thank you enough for that!
+ Ruby. Hiding - being secretive is a large part of narcissism - they enjoy acting/hiding - its also a hide & seek game within their own mind - thats where they feel safe - hiding behind the false self which they project onto the world. So , to put on a performance is a delight to them - any insight as to the performance you may proffer (even by a glance) is met with contempt & or rage...or better still - the mask of an innocent victim !
Shadenfreude's truly relish in another's misfortune..That is exactly what it means..It is very hard to live with someone like this.. You have to guard everything you own especially your car, clothes, food and even tooth brush.. They are the most vindictive when they feel slighted in any way..Great topic.. Thank you so much for bringing this to the light.. It helps tremendously..Namaste'
Your videos are brilliant Abdul. Keep them coming. These will grow very popular in time.
I can honestly say that I have SEEN the covert Narcissist's obvious envy and it does look like hatred..And yes, he does enjoy watching other's hurt and squirm..Quite enlightening after your explanation. Also easier to recognize and understand this horrific dynamic. Thank you..I really appreciate this information.
Thank for great video again! In Czech the word is škodolibost (shkodolibost). Again combination of škoda = harm or damge and libost = pleasure or joy (my personal perception of this word is that there is a bit of perversion in it)
Isn't Skoda your Czech made car? No offense intended, I drove one in France and loved it.
Why is the car named Skoda?
Pfsif exactly. Originally the name of the producer was Škoda‘s factory after name of the owner.
This is a really great model. It’s helped me to understand the very dysfunctional female friend of my former partner. She was very jealous and insecure of my relationship, and she would manipulate my ex partner, envious of my capabilities of love and intimacy and how my ex partner would speak about me when it was positive, and consistently tried to plot with him to intentionally hurt me, gaining so much pleasure from it.
It was so clear and honestly so sad how delusional it was.
Amy Bailes, you deserve better
It seams all cultures have their version of schadenfreude . I was surprised to read all the comments about this. Thanks for the very informative video series.
In Swedish it is “skadeglädje” (skada=injure glädje=joy)
Thanks a lot for this series, outstanding!
Marie A,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄!
16 years and I never saw the signs. I discarded her earlier this year even though she told everyone she left me. She also had an affair with a nearby neighbor, I think she could sense something was about to happen. She probably wanted to embarrass me or cause me shame by sleeping with the neighbor. I talked to him after I found out and he seems like a good guy. He discarded her a week later. She moved out of town in the cover of night.
Thank you for throwing some light onto this hidden area - love your calm approach to thei somewhat difficult area. For me schadenfreude is like a kind of righteous revenge emotion.
Skadefryd= malicious pleasure in Danish
skadefryd means to rejoice at hurting people
Devil's Pleasure
Thank you again.. again this puts clarity on the behavior of my Narc mother.. she was clearly jealous of me.. she saw herself bcuz I look like her and any relationship or thing I accomplished she tried to put a damper on it with any envious remark.. a sick web they weave.. and I was blind and caught. This series is helping me embrace the reality of it all, allowing me to move forward. Thank you thank you for your wisdom.. you are a gem!
Very insightful. Thank you🙂
Thank you.
Our world is narcissistic.
So we all have inculcated traits of narcissism inside of each person.
Inner reflection and development of self awareness and understanding and compassion is essential to our survival as human beings. Thank you for your teachings Abdul and helping all of us need to learn and change and grow into better human beings.
Tldr; because it makes them feel less envious of others momentarily while they're comparing your misfortune to their own.
That made thing clearer for me, thx I also notice they like to remind, point out and detail your own misfortune to get their feel good hit! What a sad and miserable place they live:( I have found the more honest I can be with myself(self-awareness) the closer I am to reality able to connect with other humans and happier I am in my own skin:) Maybe this is what’s called taking the plank out of your own eye
幸灾乐祸， mandarin idiom that translates to being happy and laughing at someone else's misfortune
Thanks Ziggy - is it possible to transliterate it into English so we get a sense of how the word sounds?
Tanya D
thankyou tanya
@@vitalmindcoaching The transliteration is xing zhai le huo, means something like gloating at disasters (灾) an accidents (祸). I'm from Singapore, so my mandarin may not be so up to the mark.
The Dutch Google Translation says it means 'vrolijkheid', which means litterly happiness. Ehhhh... Google-guys, we want to delete such an negative word as same as you do. So next time just say you don't have the translation in your big magic hat. Better safe than sorry.
In Dutch I think 'misgunnen' is the best word. How to pronounce:
mis (like miss)
g ('g' sounds the same like 'ch' of churCH)
unn (like 'an')
en (like the letter 'N')
》miss+ch+an+N (strange to write it like this)
There are two "negative" words in misgunnen. 'Mis' like missing something you want and 'gun' which you can put on someones head in a robbery to get what you want. Or mis from the words misary/ misleading/missguided/ misunderstood/ missfortunate/missay.
Sounds perfectly covert narcissistic to me. ;-)
I just found a cool Schadenfreude-themed android game. It's called PooBardment. You play as a pigeon and poop on people. Brilliant :D
Dr. Saad, Just wanted to thank you so much for this channel. Your are the ultimate teacher for the affected empath. Your clarity and insight is both inspiring and healing. Thank you again for your generosity of information and for your clinical professionalism. I will be sharing your site with many people.
Is it possible for an empath to have some of these traits. I know that narcissists are drawn to me because I’m an empath. But the inferiority and comparison part I can relate to. I don’t like that I compare myself to more popular and successful people. It was taught to me. This video has helped me to understand the disorder and it has made me self aware. Thankfully I don’t rejoice in the misfortune of others. That also explains why covert narcissists in social settings look down at me because I’m a single parent and they’re married. This information actually makes them more tolerable to be around. Now I can enjoy my time out and stay happy because I know that my sadness is what they want, and they hate my contentment.
My Husband And I are hooked !!!!!!!!!!! So thankful that we came across you and your teachings 💜
The narcissist in my life told me I "gloated" over a situation. I most definitely did not "gloat". This was the narcissist projecting her feelings onto me. The definition of gloat is "contemplate or dwell on one's own success or another's misfortune with smugness or malignant pleasure."
Susan Feis: I had a very similar reaction when I extricated myself from a covert narcissist, and he described my actions as "gleeful". I thought, "Are you talking about yourself?"
I had always suspected this person of enjoying hurting me. That was before I knew about narcissism. Once I learned about how narcissists project, this was the proof that I needed that she "gloated" every time she hurt me.
Susan: I think a narc is convinced that everyone around them is defective in some way. But, unfortunately for him or her, people around them do not behave in a defective way most of the time. And that makes the narc annoyed. Therefore, when they provoke us, and-naturally-we react emotionally and sometimes in an unbalanced way, the narc enjoys that because-finally-their deep belief in our "badness" is "confirmed". This is why, I think, when the covert narcissist I had a relationship with, provoked my frustrated responses, he kind of relaxed, like he was thinking, "I am not surprised you are mad; I always knew you are just like the rest of those stupid little beings."
Exactly!!!! I now know I shouldn't have reacted and given her the satisfaction. You described it so perfectly!!!!
Sadist might be close, but I do not believe we have a comparable word in English. Creep is the word I use for someone who visibly grins then looks concerned at your misfortune. Sad individuals. Thanks so much for your clear, concise and heartfelt information. God bless you.!
Great video! This is very important to understand. The shocking thing is that these people also like bad news in TV etc and enjoy telling stories about cancer and diseases being like obsessed with those things. Could you touch a bit upon this? Cause this is also very telling. These are things normal people would normally avoid..
Great point, Maria and it echoes my own clinical experience. I'll be touching on this in the next video.
My narcissistic father told me a story about a person getting cancer. I was 12. There was something in the way he told me, I got the fear of cancer from that point on. I'm reaching 30 now and feel that fear is getting more pathological :(
hello, Naved. Dr. Josh Axe has great videos on youtube about staying healthy.
i, personally, just do 10 minutes of burst training about 5 days a week and try to eat less meat and buy organic foods. don't forget to soak your fruits and veggies in white vinegar to kill pesticides. (there are videos on youtube about it.) stay strong and don't worry. :)
edit: don't forget to drink more water. it will make your skin glow in less than 30 days. :)
@@a.ashley5292 Thank you!
Oh my gosh you have no idea how much you have helped me with this video! You shed so much light on what I have been experiencing the narc in my life!