Why People-pleasers Can't Think Straight (Self-states, Constructs, Introjects)
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2022
- Watch Why Narcissists Can’t Think Straight (Constructs, Introjects, Memories, Defenses) • Why Narcissists Can’t ...
These automatic thoughts are at the core of people pleasing and parentifying children:
1. My happiness is always at someone else’s expense (zero sum game);
2. I have to earn my happiness, I don’t deserve it;
3. I have to somehow bribe people to stay with me, collaborate with me, help me, or tolerate me because I am a bad object (unworthy, unlovable, crazy, inadequate, dissolute, hopeless, and so on).
4. I need to compromise on my boundaries and rights owing to all the above.
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No people pleaser would think that others should sacrifice themselves for others, but people pleasers think they are somehow the exceptions to this. I have had to learn to acknowledge that I am allowed to value myself like I value others.
This is Exactly how I have felt about so many relations in my life. Im only now learning What you have learned, after not one, but two relationships with borderline diagnosed.
Finding Vaknin have put a lot of what I have gone through in perspective.
That is a great point of reference for evaluating our decisions.
Just as we are rightly taught as children to treat others the way we would like to be treated, we must also do as you said.
I just screenshot your comment for my phone wallpaper. I needed to hear that. Thank you.
great words
No therapist had helped me like you do. Thank you. My father would ask me, at the age of 7, to judge what he should do in certain chaotic situations. I still act like an older figure to my both parents. I was a very serious child. And I am a very serious adult. No parties, no playfulness, etc.
Quick story I become homeless for the 1st time in 2018 at the age of 40 my son was 11yrs old. He’s lived with me all his life and stays with dad on weekends. When we became homeless and lived in homeless shelter after the 8th day he decided he wanted to live with his dad. I was homeless for 18mnths while he stayed with his dad. I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT TO THIS DAY I WAS VERY VERY PROUD THAT HE CHOSE HIMSELF WHATS BEST FOR HIM AT THAT TIME. I say this as a BPD person. Thank you Dr. Vaknin for the awakeness🌹😇
❤😘
@@GoddessStone Thank you so much. I value what you said wholeheartedly. I’ll try my best❤️
Wow that was forthcoming to say the least!
I’m glad I watched this!!
@@lizzyworld007 ❤🙏
Thank you, Prof Vaknin! This is 100% accurate. As a child I used to cry on my birthdays because I could not cope with all the attention, love and gifts without having done anything to "deserve" it.
I did this too as a child!
@@CalloCallay You and Juliet both learned well from the fairytales of Grimm which delineated the good child's behavior from the bad. Were it that more children chose the good behavior--not taking the biggest present proferred, for instance, or insisting that you are better than another and deserve better-----there would be a great deal less greed, profligacy, and narcissistic psychopathy.
Is THAT why I always cried when they sung Happy Birthday to me?!😢
I need this. I'm a people pleaser 🥴
This was true 😭 I find it hard to have anybody do something for me because I feel like such a burden so I offer money etc in exchange if I need something
Life-altering epiphany moment...Thank you, Doc... If I could have a wish this Christmas season it would be a (related) video on HOW TO BREAK THE CYCLE OF PEOPLE-PLEASING AND PARENTIFICATION
.. and how to help a workaholic friend, that fits this description.
Oh ja, that would be grate !!
Me too ❤
As a kid/teenage girl, I was forced to take care of my mother 4 days a week both day and night until my father returned from business trips. My mother suffered from an insidious form of mental illness known as schizoaffective disorder which is sort of a fusion between bipolar and schizophrenia. I suffered so much and I’m still learning my own voice and how to speak up for myself. I’m finally drawing boundaries for once on my life although I often feel guilty when I do. My physical and mental health suffered and as a high school student and former A student but my grades finally dropped . The weight of it all was so much and my father simply turned a blind eye and never asked how I was doing until I developed severe panic attacks. I know I have abandonment issues to this day from my fathers absence that I endured until I got married and moved out of that house .Thank you for this video , Professor Vaknin.
@@simplysindisiwe Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, I married a narcissist very young and we are currently in the middle of a divorce.
Thank you for sharing. This is so close to my story. I don’t want to make this about me, however. I just appreciate you for thriving.
Absolutely i was a big people pleaser always given to people this way i deserved their kindness yet they saw me as a mug once i saw myself as a mug i said im done and totally left my buisness on social media and said no more because if i dont respect myself they will not respect me and keep using me for their own personal gain. Now i feel empowered finally giving myself authority.
Oh yeah, this is me😄. 31 years in 12 step/recovery has helped me to modify these patterns and automatic thoughts. I work on these all the time. Just the statement that I "work" on them says something 🙂
So many things make sense now. I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just say no to anything big or small.
Now you can, because you do know.
This guy is the truth.
When this is someone’s ‘normal’ and one relates to what you describe, a question arises: If this is programming, then what is normal? What should one aspire to? Happiness does not have to be earned and having it isn’t taking from someone else, ok….. but how can the people pleaser get out of this programming? How can one think like a non-people-pleaser and break free? Programming is one thing but how can one even be reprogrammed when one doesn’t know what is healthy and typical of a healthy person?
I've always felt that there was a limited quantity of happiness available in the world and that it is selfish of me to want any of it.
So you know that's not accurate, right? You only get one life, one today, so why not find what brings you joy and then share your joy. Seems the foundation is liking yourself and kinder self-talk. I love Sam Vaknin's talks on relationships to avoid to make other's lives so much better! Also Marisa Peer for improved self-talk. Enjoy😗`
@@privateperson4842 Thanks friend! On the surface I know that there is not a finite amount of happiness available to us, but I am becoming aware of how that belief is seated deep within me somewhere, guiding my thoughts and actions. It's very disorienting and I'm not sure what to do about it, but being aware of it is at least allowing me to understand myself a bit better.
THIS video is a most outstanding explanation of why and how parentified children (particularly) fail to establish and maintain boundaries. Thank you, Dr. Vaknin for this. I understand both myself and my father much better, and others.
@@spiritwellness252 Yes.
This sounds like “ PARENTING STYLES” That we almost All suffer from. HONOR THOU MOTHER N FATHER SO THOOU DAYS WILL BE LONG ..AT ANY COST BE NICE TO YOUR SISTER/BROTHER☹️
Very accurate and to the point. From my personal experience as a very anxiety-ridden people-pleaser, I can tell you that one of the deepest unconscious construct, heavily guarded from awareness, that gives rise to people pleasing is (in limbic system language): I must not allow myself to want what I want, otherwise I will dissapoint and hurt those close and dear to me, because I'm a bad, horrible person and my decisions lead to hurtful outcomes. I must always be on alert and scan for what those around me want, so that I can anticipate and appropriate their whishes to replace my own. At the same time, I must secretly and mischieviously follow my wants, thus sabotaging my pleasing persona, out of frustration and fear of self obliteration. This huge inner split creates enormous anxiety, a permanently activated 4F state, indecision, panic attacks, and a whole bunch of other coherent symptoms. This is because every decision, no matter how small, activates the construct: is this decision justifiable? Is it harmless for everyone around?
This is a 4th level construct, an ontological one, that defines the way the person exists in the world. It gives meaning to every action and interaction, and thus is all pervasive.
@mihai do you have specific resources where i can read more about this?
@@nabr0n I personally find that the point of view of Bruce Ecker, founder of Coherence Therapy (a type of experiential psychotherapy, based on memory reconsolidation), most helpful. He has written three books, and I highly recommand them all. The approach is based on neuroscience, is non-theoretical, and it simply teaches you to read and edit your own story about yourself and the world, as you have written it in your brain by the experiences you had and how you gave them meaning. It was life-changing for me.
Oh my God! Not everyone is like this???🤯🤯🤯 I thought this is just life and I'm doing a great job socially. I thought what you call people pleasing is my natural responsibility...
The construct reminds me of the function of the cell membrane with its receptors, proteins, channels, keys and locks, and all that.
I have become aware over the past few years, of how small I make myself to keep others happy. But so far, no matter how aware I am, it is like programming as you say - I go through the motions, hate the imbalance, then vow to try and be fairer to myself next time. The only days I feel equilibrium is when I stop caring about how I make others feel because I'm too full in my head, and dissociate in a way just to get through the day. Ironically I like myself more those days. Another way I've unconsciously managed it is to cut people out of my life - they don't see it coming because I mother and care for everyone (except myself). I try to get better at it, but its hard to ignore the automatic thoughts. If we do not have free will and can't escape our self states, forgiveness (and maybe humour) is deeply necessary. Ideally we activate our other self states (the ones that don't betray us) in better environments, and by surrounding ourselves with healthier people, but how long will the anxiety last until the body/mind realises you're finally doing something good for yourself?
I am smiling with a thought from what you wrote. Namely, if you can't escape the self-state, maybe start forgiving yourself, Maybe forget some of the reasons that you are making up for why and how this place was ever arrived at semicolon to let go of the story, and deal with what is. And starting to live with having compassion and finding humor in our foibles. You said it differently, but I loved flipping on it's head the phrase, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".
• A phrase which in this context, feels like a defeated surrender to a self state that is heavily programmed/deeply ingrained for survival /but fails.
• Leaving the organism with evermore Exoskeleton and everless soul
You betray yourself and those that haven’t betrayed you yet haven’t seen the real you
@@Turbo365g I think you assume too much and misread my message. Don't know what you're on about. Self-states are all me, yes, just that they are triggered as a response to certain external stimuli as explained in the video. I don't believe people betray me, I'm not sure where you got that from. Betrayal comes from my putting others first, right? I don't think I hide "who I really am", I just don't put myself first in circumstances where there is this choice, which ends up exhausting me, denying my needs, etc. For example, acting as the parent figure is not an act, its automatic - a result of my trauma - which is why i want to figure out how to turn it off, so I can be more present and there for myself. People still in my life know me very well, my frustrations, my strengths and weaknesses. it is hard for me to go beyond that, which is what my last question in the message was about, and why I wish to access other self-states, other introjects, etc. more - less suffering, anxiety, more peace.
@@anjeuli Thank you so much for clarifying.
Resonating with you on all points. But I have a question: What if everyone treated us like we treat them, lovingly present, consciously avoiding criticism even if they deserve it because the excessively self-absorbed who surround us only face themselves on their own (delusional) terms, and in fact, react to judgement with more bad behavior towards us. Let's reframe this as baseline normal behavior in any other world but this hell-hole, founded upon a rational attempt to a priori have equal give and take by establishing the terms of a pleaseantly workable means of interaction, for example: 'I'm very much ok, and so are you! Now, can we get on with life---play chess, cook together, maybe have a meaningful conversation that doesn't "offend" the other?' Ummm....probably not. Those we allow into our lives mostly don't want equal give and take; they see we give, and so they take. ... Nevermind; love yourself, and continue to --CONSCIOUSLY--cut out all who overstep the bounds of your identified self-respect and self-generating states of joy! The prize is their shocked surprise when you stop all interactions.
What a beautiful mind you have! Prof. Sam Vaknin Thank you for sharing your wisdom ❤
This is brilliant!!! Now i understand the root cause of all my self sabotaging thoughts & dynamics. Thank you Prof. Vaknin.
I thank you so much for sharing such wisdom with us. Please keep teaching us!
This is absolutely amazing. Having my self negating understanding described with such clarity 😮
Well, that ia right.
As co-dependent (son of bordlerline mother) i can say that this is very true.
Especially part with hapines and love. If is naturaly flowing, for example frendship with certain person, ia too good to be true, so wr tend to "run away / push them away"
Thank you Sam
Physically painful how accurate this is.
Lots of recognition. Remarkable how our brains try to shaped some kind of alternative reality, to make living possible. Thanks for your insight.
I would have previously thought of this as slave morality, which I believe you can't wake up from until it no longer works for you or those around you anymore. I'm working through reprogramming myself out of many of these things for about 8 years now. It resulted in solitude and total disgust for our culture in the beginning stages of it. In addition there's a lot of embarrassment and really feeling stupid for 'drinking the Kool aid' so completely all my life. My success was all a result of following the expected behavior programming without realizing it - having an achievement-based, external locus, follow-everyone-else's-rules/ way of living because the core belief underlying it is that you are not wanted or you are defective somehow when everyone else isn't. Of course if you understood that in the beginning you would know this is unfair and not accurate but of course you don't understand because the programming starts at the beginning of life when you don't have words or concepts. To get out I had to break most of my relationships and go be solitary, not that anyone else could comprehend it, and so I appeared to be crazy and wrong. It was a required detox for me because there were too many conflicting messages. You have to be ok with all of that, I think, in order to get better because it's using the threat of your being an outcast, humiliated reject as a weapon of control but it's so automatic that we don't consciously register that in our minds. Now, I am not sure how to form any commitments because I am aware of this being in our cultural programming. It's like being an infant in a world of highly developed predators who don't admit or know what they are actually doing- at least that is what the experience can seem like to a newly awakened person, accurate or not. So there is sort of a 'monster' defense stage to it where you can't tolerate it anymore and become quite scary or aggressive and want everyone to get out. So, you create your own rejection by doing it yourself - at least that's how the process worked for me. Maybe that's sort of an extreme case. Life gets easier though with a certain level of acceptance and understanding the main function and purpose of the programming. The idea of self-states I believe is also on-point, like changing the channel based on beliefs, moods, feelings and everything goes out according to that core position. Some people think a person is wearing a mask or being fake if they switch quickly between these states, but actually they're responding precisely to what that core belief, feeling etc is unless they are intentionally predatory, I suspect. Thank you so much for your work and dedication to these topics and for opening up this conversation in the world, Sam. It is so needed if it is ever going to shift to a healthier world. Peace be with you.
Wow, this gave me more than any therapy session ever did. You are such a gem Prof. Vaknin thank you for all your wisdom!
Thank you. I can relate to this on such a deep level. People-pleaser's deeper, unconscious assumption is that not just love and respect but simple Being has to be earned.
Which books would you recommend a People-pleaser?
I was raped at 8 by my brother . I blocked it out until after I got married at 20 . I was my parents the first time around . Now I have to fight so much harder because I am repairing the things I did not know I did not have the tools for the first time around as a kid .
I have had all of these. I feel like I was marked as a kid and that's how I ended up a 4 time rape victim and kept blocking it out . My memories are so gone from all the blocking out stuff .
I get this. I had horrible memories come back at 47 years old. I am 53 now. I have been seeing a hypnotherapist to help me work through my childhood. Prayers and healing 🙏
Thanks . Life is hard . No matter what some eggs will get turned into scrambled eggs because a omelette is a Bi+#$ .
Thank you so much. Oldest daughter here and yes I'm practising to say no now. I thought because I'm not a PP in romantic relantionships I was immune in other types of dynamics and boy I was so wrong!
Same here, Raquel. Are you brazilian?
Thanks Prof Vaknin for helping me understand myself.
I just think this man right here Professor Sam Vaknin is brilliant wow!! Thank you very much.🙏🙏
Sir whatever you are saying is correct. YOU have explained it accurately.
Thanks, Prof., for this
Thank you Professor.
Another epic one. Thank you.
Thank you, professor Vaknin.
Thank you Sam. This was very helpful.
Wow. This was helpful. Thank you ☺️
Thank you Sam :)
Thanks Sam so worthwhile to understand Self States 🌟
Very informative. Thank u
Very informative 👍
Thank you!
There is so much I understand, finally. Thank you Professor
Thank you so much.
Excellent. And…I LOVE your sweater!! :))
Good lecture, Sam. I like the use of the word, occult.
Sam . Thank you for the work you put in to benefit others .
Thank you sam for your videos they are always helpfull.
Would consider doing a video on when the people please catches on to the narcissists? I'm no contact with narc family. I still want want to give these ass/clowns a pie to the face for the holidays. The realization was like the stages of grief. Then I reached the how dare you stage. Now I view them the way a narcissists see people in general. I have contempt and discust for them. I have experienced mean girls at work as well. It's like a light switch flips and I turn into the female version of the terminator. I know I scared them b/c of their expression. I tell them ," Don't you ever expect any kindness from me ever. It's like a wall comes down and I speak to them as you would a prison inmate, or ignore them as if they don't exist. It's weird to see them get upset, when I treat them the same as they treated me. They did leave me alone after that.
go away
You are the best.
Amazing amazing amazing!!!!!!Eye opening
Life changing !!!!!! Awareness!!!!!!!
So happy I found you
Dr Sam, all your videos are priceless but in my book this is the best one so far! I wish the entire world world would hear what you know and, most importantly, have this amazing ability to convey. Thank you! And I am sure I won't be wrong when I say we all admire you.
Keep speaking Sam, your voice can raise the awareness needed to change the world for the better and help to keep it safe. I respect all the work that you do, putting yourself on the line and acknowledging the responsibility you have as a professor in this field. You really are a smart owl 🦉
This is accurate thank you. I have people pleased most my life and have became conscious of some of my unconscious state of mind that I'm still in but more conscious of it now. I agree with you on people who work all the time chasing distraction to escape. My siblings do this themselves through working their life away using achievements to arffim their self esteem through active action. Where as in I distract myself by inactive action. Both the same but different expressions of the same codependency issue. Great video Sam.
Grateful for you as a trauma coach
Thank you🙏
Hello from montreal good stuff
My parents did a great job on me! 😢
I must say, among all other videos, this video sums this all up for me - everything now is linked. I understand how abusive people take advantage of this. I always thought my main thing is the fact 'I need to be seen', so everything needs to be perfect and a sort of a big production (even just a small dinner).
'I NEED TO JUSTIFY MY HAPPINESS' / 'I'M A BAD DEAL WHY WOULD ANYONE WANTS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME' / 'I'M A DORMANT' ** WOW it really made me cry, it is so accurate and painful.
Thank you Prof. Vaknin this is truly insightful!
Thank you
This is fucking epic.
Well explained professor Vaknin . Thank you. But what should be done to reverse the process of bad functioning self-states?
For me since I found your videos you are not Sam Vaknin only you are SIR Sam Vaknin thank you from the bottom of my injury and thank God recoverd hart
Agree that we hide our damage of the past. So as what you advised just go back to your bases and start at 0.
Wow, that was profound.
☆ @13:00 -> masterful sum up; + Vaknin & RG Discussion Lecture refresher. This is summed up beautifully; Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam down the line and was also exceptionally helpful to listen to after sinking into your discussions with Richard G on Interject diffs btwn Cluster B, esp Borderline &NPD.
Gee I just figured this out but it took me a year to heal it ..the narcissistic personality told me I need to be punished...and I woke up
@Prof. Sam Vaknin thank you for another spot on and insightful video. How would one know if they are saying no because they are out of the people-pleasing self-state and are in touch with their needs or if they are discarding someone unjustly in an attempt to individuate? Asking for a friend with comorbidities ;)
Lol..glad you weren’t rubbed out
Thank you! Is there any way to change these self states, or heal them?
Excellent video; thank you Professor Vaknin. Your explanations made a lot of sense & cleared up some confusions I've had about People-pleasers. I've tried to understand some of these people I've known over the years (like my father) with what I think is "logic"; only to follow them into a confusing rabbit hole where I got lost &/or frustrated.
Is there a diagnosis for this behavior? Masochist? No co-dependent diagnosis fits me but this one does fit 100% and I would love to learn more about that specific pathology of people pleasing/playing the slave!
So true...sadly true....how do you change this sick mechanism?
are there people-pleasers that discover their people-pleasing on their own? if there are, what are the paths they take?
(going full opposite etc.)
such a video would be also great!
Yes I did. But it made no difference in my behaviour. The path I took after years : leaving a work environment that enabled my behaviour (after more than 20 jobs in witch I made it hard for myself. The minute I felt myself "normal", I had to quit and make my life difficult again in a unknown environment). Leaving a narcissistic family life. Facts (experiences) made me understand I was behaving like some disposable object and people took advantage of that. What changed me also was the simple fact that I'm getting older and doing crazy things (I was a workaholic) was no option anymore. I feel good now on my own. I have some friends I see every week and I feel good around them. Only people who are nice back get my attention these days. Best regards.
I did. And this was when I had finally burnt out and grew resentment towards others. I was around 20-23 of age. From there I learnt to put me first
Dear professor thank you so much for the lovely videos. Andrew tate pisses me off and was hoping we can do a video about the phycology of Andrew Tate 😊
😂😂
How to get rid of introjects because as you said in previous videos narcissists came back to it like a perfect loop.
Wow... that makes sense when the end result in a relationship is bdsm with a narcissist husband. Now I know why I automatically chose the relationships I have been in... I was a daddy's girl. Forever trying to keep my dad happy. I got the worst end of it if my stepmother complained to my dad about me. I got beat for everytime she lied about me.
I am sorry for you. I hope you feel better today.
When I don't drink I don't self sabotage but when i do I'm my own worst enemy self sabotaging myself
I begged my parents not to buy me a guitar after I made myself DIY 1-string guitar because I thought if they buy me a real guitar I would have to learn to play it well to justify them buying it and I thought it will be a lot of work and it was final exams year in middle-school and I had little time. They never said that I will need to do anything it was all me predicting what I will "need" to do to make it "worth" to give me something.
What do I have to do to get some sessions with this guy, I need a whole schema on my 🧠😆
So, for those who think this may apply to them, how to they avoid those type of self states?
In therapy we are taught to question these behaviours stemming from the beliefs
Look into EMDR therapy
I'm wondering how this plays into the collectivist-individualist spectrum. People pleasing must look different for an individualist compared to a collectivist?
Very painful to hear this .
How can this be cured?
Therapy. Maybe not “cured”, but definitely managed.
I'm a doormat
Good morning Professor, the only question I would like to ask you is, are these self-states modifiable at any extent with therapy?
Yes, they are. Search the therapies playlist.
Thank you, for the answer.
Soo any eay to heal?
Dear Professour, I know a 8 years' child who is parentified by his NPD father. Lately the boy developed a fantasy of an omnipotent "invisible friend". How could we help this child not to fall into his dad's footsteps? Should we attack/discredit this omnipotent introject to prevent boy's "self sacrifice" to his false-self in spe? Is there any hope? Note, there I am not a caregiver to this child so my intervention scope is very limited...
If this boy has found a way of coping, that is his way of coping at his age. If the coping mechanism is not harmful to the self or others don't try to take it away from him. Encouage him an notice him, take an interest, ask him what his hopes, dreams, likes and dislikes are, listen to him and reflect your understanding of what he says back to him. That may help him not to dissociate to the extreem.
Can you please make a video about YE (formerly known as Kanye West) now you’ve survived the trump video 😊 Many Thanks for your great work
Stop setting yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
ohh sh*t
I believe that in bdsm most women that define themselves as submissives have the people pleaser issue. At least in my experience
*most people that define themselves as submissives
Is this why people engage in BDSM relationships? Is this why women and men allow their BDSM partner, to implement their practice on them (impact and other methods of “punishment “)??
Mr. Vankin : I love you so much & your work has been invaluable in my life and journey. Thank you so much. This is right on time , as always, and I have no words for the gratitude I have for the years of assistance, guidance and what often feels like mentorship. 🪄🧠⚖️💜
Vaknin.