My therapist told me that people with ADHD are especially susceptible to gaslighting because you're already forgetful, so you trust the gaslighting more easily
@@beyourself9162 adhd is not on the autism spectrum. that's not what spectrum means. they are separate conditions about how the brain is wired and one can have both ASD and ADHD. it's also not true that they "never forget". everybody forgets. especially traumas are even easier to forget, as a coping mechanism. having adhd doesn't make you immune to that. unfortunately.
@@beyourself9162 sorry but if that's the case, then the two psychiatrists you mentioned are just wrong. I'd rather research it from scientific resources, autistics themselves and my own experience rather than talking to some random doctors who may or may not have correct and up-to-date information about the subject. You can go and read the DSM-5 for yourself too and see that they are clearly two separate conditions. You don't need to be a psychiatrist for that. I have indeed seen discussions and some old articles around ADHD being related to ASD, and it makes sense that some people have looked into it since they have slight similarities here and there but they definitely are separate conditions and there is no credible scientific research that says they are related. And just think about it please: If ADHD was just a form of ASD then how come people get diagnosed with both?
@@beyourself9162 I wrote what I wrote for other people to read, to correct the obviously false information that you provided. I have no interest in engaging in an endless debate with some internet stranger, revolving around the same passive-aggressive responses. To anyone else reading this: ADHD is not "part of the autism spectrum", that doesn't even make sense and is not backed by any science. Please do your own research and get the facts rather than trusting random people in RUclips comments, including me.
@@beyourself9162 ADHD and Autism are both part of Neurodiversity. They are related in a way since the traits for both overlap in some areas, but ADHD isn't part of the Autistic spectrum. They are still two distinct things.
As a person with ADHD I want to add that when we “aren’t listening” it’s not a choice. Sometimes we start zoning out or thinking about other things that that person made us think of. Or there was something in the room that caught our attention. And when we interrupt it is generally cause we don’t realize we are. And we have a lot to say and we are just really excited to share them. People with ADHD can also come across like we don’t care about things like important dates like birthdays and anniversaries. But we actually do care but we have a hard time thinking far into the future because we have to think about getting through one day at a time and then we don’t realize these important dates are coming up.
And if we appear to be not listening, we likely still are. When someone demands eye contact and sitting still, that's often when we mentally drift off.
In my experience as a nurse, I've found that watching their speech helps me sort them out. An ADHD patient will never be as rude or belittling as the narcissist.
It’s so crazy how fast I can spot narcissists now. I work as a waitress and today this man came in and immediately said a rude comment about being at a table for 6 with just 2, the host explained the rest of the tables being reserved in an hour and this one isn’t reserved until later on in the night. He immediately made snide comments about how “the restaurant must be so well off that it is completely booked in an hour” and before this the first comment he made to his wife was “this is already bad” this was like a 70+ year old man and his wife. I felt so bad for her. I kept over hearing him laugh at his wife in contempt over the simplest things. Most of our best entrees are 18+ and he laughed at his wife saying I can’t believe you would want that and was just being so prideful and rude. It was so clear to me, it’s like it gets worse and more prominent with age, the narcissistic programming becomes a greater percentage of their personality the longer they are unconscious of it. I have really been convinced that it’s the same demonic spirit operating out of all of them. I’m so grateful my eyes have been opened
@@haleycrowe0 it definitely gets worse with age! My dad is one, he’s always tried to live through us, used us as props, and was very belittling. He’s so judgmental and rude. He’s SO nasty to people for no reason, they obviously react, and then he explodes. He’s incredibly combative, he cussed out a door to door salesman the other day (who was a very nice COLLEGE KID btw) instead of just not answering the door like a normal person. My mom was saying how he wasn’t always like this. Yes he absolutely was and she made excuses for his behavior all the time (“you’re just sensitive, he didn’t mean it like that.”) but it’s gotten worse as he’s aged, and because she has to spend more time with him now WFH she’s noticing it’s horrendous. NOW it’s a problem because she can’t just escape to the office 😑. He’s always been insufferable, but now its x1,000.
As a child in 60s my mother latched onto the new term calling me hyper....hyperactive. I eventually realized that since her royal narcnness lived on Valium, my brightness as a kid went too fast for her. I completed tasks fast, but throughly. I needed more challenges. Mom is 90 now...occasionally she introduces me as her hyper daughter...? Yes me with the PhD. Schools never mentioned any issues with my attention.
YES! This was such a revelation to me. I would never call myself hyperactive, but there is always a party going on in my head. When I went in to be assessed I thought I had some mild inattentive symptoms, and I came out with a diagnosis of severe ADHD-HI. I was STUNNED. As a culture we have failed girls and women.
NPD: I can't sit here and listen to you talk, I have an illness! ADHD *quitely in own head*: listen listen listen listen, pay attention, please pay attention, oh God what did she say, why can't you pay attention you IDIOT ADHD *outwardly": smile and nod
Is this inattentive ? I have “mixed” but I think I struggle most with H-I, and when I read comments like this depicting adhd I’m like... I don’t ever feel that way. I often wonder just how different the two types are. We def need more conversations about our struggles! 😊
@@-Brit-Brat- A great line I've heard is that "if you've seen 1 person with adhd then you've ... seen 1 person with adhd!" because of how it presents so differently in different people. adhd brains are measurably different from 'typical' brains in scans but the way we mask, compensate and express ourselves will always be different. Not to say we can't learn from and support eachother. It's useful for me to understand facets and how they affect me or not so much. Like, I feel Rejection Sensitivity acutely .. I rarely have insomnia issues.. I'm not physically hyperactive but mentally my brain never stops moving! etc etc.
my narc self-diagnosed themselves/ pretended to have ADHD to gain attention, and to excuse their contemptuous behavior. After a year of publicly talking about the trials and tribulations of having ADHD ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA (again to gain attention and sympathy from people) they finally went to a professional and were told they didn't have it. After that my narc stopped talking about ADHD on their social media bc they were proven to be a huge phony :D
The difference between narcissists and AD(H)D-people, is that narcissists don't know who they are, but they know exactly where they want to be, whereas AD(H)D-people know exactly who they are, but have no idea of where they belong.
Yes..I am there as a highly creative ADHD SENIOR...at 62 being subjected to a 69 year old NARCISSISTIC MAN WITH ADHD..it is no wonder I revisited SUICIDE recently. There is no answers anymore.
@@artskiwendy There's always answers ... AD(H)D-people are like magnets for narcissists, and it took me half a life to figure out why these a**holes kept popping up in my life and what to do about it. Yes, after being mistreated by a narcissist and left by the side of the road, you may feel like an absolute loser, and it feels like your darkest hour ... Remember you have a special talent that they are jealous of, and realize this talent is the very key to find your way up again.
Thanks to you, I’ve learned what I’ve survived through all these 35 years - and today, my 57th birthday, I’m packing the last box for my big move! Happy birthday TO ME!
HAPPY RE-BIRTH DAY BIRTHDAY 🥳 Today is the first day of the rest of your wonderful life you're about to create. Congratulations on putting you first, and finding the strength to leave your abuser. So proud of you! I hope you have the most amazing time getting to know yourself again, and healing. You are enough! You are worthy! You deserve to love, and be loved! Wishing you so much love, light, and laughter. Many blessings x
-watches video on narcissism and adhd. -rewinds video 10x on the same part bc I keep thinking about the ways I’ve been manipulated by narcissists instead of listening to the video 😂😅😢
This is a minefield. Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is so misunderstood. By the way, in the U.S., they removed the Asperger's diagnosis and call everything ASD now.
I had a client recently who displayed very clear symptoms of Aspergers or Autism, and it was a very awkward interaction. Completely different type of personality and presence than a narcissist.
I actually think it's a good idea, but I don't think many people could talk about the subject without bringing up wrong stereotypes about people with autism.
Please please, do this! With autism on the rise, seeing where it overlaps narcissism can seem impossible when autistic folks try to act as "normal." This separation needs to be elucidated.
I also feel that the struggles a person with ADHD go through make us more susceptible to a narcissist. We all ready have poor self assessment and low self-esteem at times. And we ADHDers have a drive to be better, do better, improve, people please what have you. Trust me when I say, when the narcissist pics up on this they lock in and your done. I have had experience with several narcissists in my life time. And it's so bad. For decades I have judged myself in a terrible way thinking I'm useless or some how "broken" but I'm not. I need to manage my symptoms rather than viewing them as flaws. I also have decided to let go of anyone who prefers the broken version of me. I want to heal and thrive and if they aren't on board with that than I don't need them in my life. I have so much more to say on this topic. But I don't want to write a novel at the moment. I am just thankful for this channel. I have been effected by a couple of narcs and I was in a severe depression that lasted about 6 months. This channel helped me put things in perspective and set better boundaries so I could heal. I am forever grateful!
You said you had a lot more to say on this topic. Please do I would love to read more. I “had” a narc mother and have adhd. I can definitely relate to everything you said.
Hell yes! I've been on a very similar journey to understanding my ADHD and healing from years of narcissistic abuse. You explained our collective struggles so clearly when the situation used to feel impossible to understand, let alone explain to folks outside of the relationship. I'm so glad you were able to regain your sense of self and break free from that pattern 💚
ADHD is an explanation and not an excuse. As someone who has ADHD and has experienced narcissistic abuse I used to be super sympathetic towards my narcissistic ex when they displayed behaviours similar to the things I was struggling with because of my ADHD. Like being forgetful or emotionally disregulated or having anger issues. But after a while I realizes that the difference between me and him was that every time I had one of those behaviors I would try my best to do better but he wouldn't he acted like I owed him sympathy and understanding every time without him ever trying to be better. Back then I didn't know my behaviors were because of ADHD and his was narcissistic, so it took me a while to realize that just because somebody seems to have similar issues to mine it doesn't mean their motivations and how they choose to view and deal with those issues will be the same. I chose to discover the source of my issues and deal with them and I learned I'm responsible for myself. That's something narcissists don't even think about doing. Of course there can be people who have ADHD and are narcissistic or even have BPD. I think they would use their ADHD as an excuse for bad behavior.
Girl I experienced the EXACT SAME THING. I have ADHD and I dated a narcissist. My mum is a narcissist with ADHD. I try my best but it's never good enough for people. Thank you so much for your comment, I feel so validated and less alone now❤️🩹💫🌎
@@ais3195 I read recently that people with ADHD tend to attract narcissists... I have ADHD, and I have attracted SO MANY of them over my lifetime, and apparently it's a very common thing, because ADHD tends to cause low self-esteem, which makes us prime targets for narcissists. You even said you try your best and it's not good enough for people... that's classic ADHD low self-esteem talking. And it's only not good enough for the narcissistic people in your life, and nothing will ever be good enough for them. And it's a double whammy, I think, because when you grow up with ADHD, you get criticized and reprimanded more, and you definitely internalize that, and blame yourself for everything... so then a narcissist comes along, and also blames you for everything, and you just accept it. Someone who isn't already riddled with self-blame probably wouldn't just accept it that easily. I think those of us with ADHD especially need to be aware of the red flags, for that reason.
@@ais3195 I’m dealing with a similar situation. I haven’t got formally diagnosed with ADHD/Autism yet, but my doctor said it’s very likely I at least have ADHD. I find myself wondering, “maybe I was just being difficult; maybe I was the problem.” How do you guys navigate those doubts, especially when your trying to dealing with things that happened to you as a kid?
You nailed it. I used to have a lot of guilt and shame for past narcissistic relationships wondering why I let them treat me like that. But You are 100% correct that it was adhd symptoms and empathy. I would forget all the wrongdoings and had to start writing down lists and referring to them to remember why I’m upset with them. It was hard but my empathy and lack of judgement is why I chose to be single. Another major point. Adhd does not improve with age, and it doesn’t stop bc of medication. I wish my insurance would understand adults and adhd is just as normal as anxiety or depression.
I have adhd and we constantly feel sorry and ashamed and are often really empathatic and loving people, because we know what it feels like to fail. And I actually think that ee are more vulnerable to narcissts because of all the rejection we receive especially as children. And we stay longer because we are so used to get put down by close family and teachers...
Thanks! That comment about low self esteem and add made so much sense! I really appreciate the distinctions between ADD and narcissism- Thank you again!
Is it just me or should the norm be, when someone you meet tells you they have ADHD (not just a little bit of it), the reaction should be an instant hug and a whisper of "I'm sorry, me too."
@@mrnobody2873 yes! And I actually think with increasing knowledge about neurodivergence it happens more and more that adhd- and other neurodivergent brains find each other and offer each other emapthy and comfort without judgement. :) something a narcissistic person would never do without conditions or devaluing afterwards.
*This is something I've always wondered about because I have friends with ADHD and they get called narcissistic a lot. I love this content thank you Ramani*
Yes, people confuse it very often because we can come up as rude because of our impulsivity even if that wasn't our intention at all. That's the huge difference between ADHD and narcissism. Someone with ADHD because of his impulsivity will interrupt you, ignore you, and say brutally honest things to you without realizing he's doing those things and will feel bad and often apologize when he does realize he was rude. A narc does it knowing perfectly well what he was doing and just doesn't care about your feelings.
Sounds like a lot of your friends probably are narc's. My sister is a narc that "claims" to have ADHD and was never formally diagnosed, doesn't show any of the symptoms in the videos and is completely organized and calculated and goes out of her way to "pretend" she has ADHD. I would be careful especially if they use it as an excuse constantly for bad behavior and never take responsibility. It's actually one of the easy-outs for narcissists, to continually abuse you and then play the victim every time you call them out. I would be really careful especially with adults "claim" they have ADHD and don't take any medication, never went to treatment, and live in a complete delusional reality. The thing is I have ADHD friends and they are super cool, but I'm extremely weary of anybody that uses it as an excuse especially when they do things that are pretty messed up. My ADHD friends almost NEVER ignore me, interrupt me, without immediately being like "oh my bad." A narc will keep doing it and pushing boundaries and gaslighting (ignoring) and if any criticism comes their way it's immediately "it's my adhd" when in reality it's their narcissism.
Thank you so much. I have ADHD and with the general public being more aware of narcs, people who have ADHD are actually suffering a LOT. Looking at narcissism and ADHD just how they affect the people around them looks almost exactly the same, except the person with ADHD is stressed out by their affect on people. It doesn't matter why we forget things, we forget everything. I had to look at my birth certificate for my middle names one time. I am not forgetting my appointment because I hate you, I just don't remember things, even things I like or need!
I have to tell people, that I have a hard time understanding spoken instructions, please text it, and they do not care. They think I'm a narcissist trying to make them bend to my needs. I'm just being neurodivergent trying to come to a middle ground on communication.
I'm the same, always forgetful and can't process verbal instructions, has to be visual. I just bought a planner from Agendio.com, they let you customize literally every aspect of it so it fits your needs, perfect for our ADHD brains! Can't wait, I feel like that's going to help me stay organized and remember everything if I can write it down soon as I think of it and it will all be in one place. Good luck!
Difficulty with auditory processing is common in people with adhd. I think in part bc you have no "proof" about what was said. Written information is much more objective. I've asked for people to text bc then if I question what I think I can go back and verify.. And of course pretty much every one I know with adhd have huge self esteem issues bc they have spent a life time being told something is wrong with them.. So I have a hard time seeing how someone can be both a narcissist AND have adhd. I CAN see a narcissist maybe using adhd as a vehicle to get drugs. Or an "excuse" But by virtue of being a narcissist I have a hard time with seeing a narcissist saying they "have a problem"
@@annemiller8227 I know at least 2 ppl with both ADHD and narcissist behavior patterns. One is my ex husband, the other is my friend's ex wife. Both had traumatic childhoods, both went undiagnosed for ADHD their whole life, both in denial about there being anything "wrong" with them, both had parents who were narcs as well. My ex is a covert narc, so he constantly tried to get empathy from those around him by always being the victim. He had terrible self esteem, and he tried to make himself feel better by projecting his flaws onto other people, me being one of them. Then he would build himself up by saying how smart he was cuz he was in the gifted program as a kid, or that he was an empath and could feel others emotions. There's a lot of overlap of behavior with ADHD and narcissism, so it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins like she said in the video, but I can almost see where having ADHD could make you more prone to be a narcissist. Still working on that theory, but what led me to it is our son. He's almost 12, and has ADHD. He has a hard time with perspective taking which is common for people with ADHD. A few things he has said to me in the past: "my sister should know when I'm getting angry, and she should stop messing with me or else she deserves to get hit" putting the responsibility of his actions on somebody else. He doesn't understand why his actions or way of doing things would be cringeworthy to other kids, so when they tease him, he takes it personally and says they are bullying him, which leads to victim complex and depression. Thank God I found The ADHD Dude on RUclips and my son's future looks brighter than my ex. Otherwise, I can 100% see how my son would develop the same narcissistic patterns.
@@valeriekoelling885 I'm very sorry you went through that. I was married to a covert narcissist. I even wondered if he had ADHD. When I wrote the post I was sure someone would likely reply bc (IMHO) there's no such thing as "always" and "never". Life is full of outliers. Having ADHD AND empathy makes me feel like wincing any time I have caused anyone pain even accidentally. Other people with ADHD ( and not a narcissist) usually report the same (best of my knowledge) I also was talking about the irony of a narcissist claiming ADHD bc by virtue of being a narcissist they usually don't! "accept" something is wrong with them. I will say that it's getting harder and harder to remember exactly what it's like to be with a narcissist. I dropped mine years ago. He has never paid child support which has it's own silver lining. Hes had little interest in his kids over the years which has been it's own kind of blessing. It means we have nothing to talk about. Again you have my deepest sympathy for having to deal with even ONE narcissist. ADHD is it's own Gordian knot. I hope your son is able to evade his father's characteristics. Also you might want to check out the RUclips channel "How to ADHD". I will be checking out the one you mentioned but I stumbled across this a few months ago and was VERY impressed. Keep your chin up. Reach out again if you are feeling like it's pulling you under... You are braver and stronger than you know or else you would have broken already
to be an ADHD child being raised by 2 narcissists was a lower level of hell. being physically restrained to sit still in addition to the constant shaming because I couldn't be quite and struggled in school. add father's alcoholism into the mix. I didn't realize I had ADHD until I was an adult, working as a counselor at a youth facility; what was common knowledge to those who observed me was new to me! ; )~ Strattera works really well for me and I don't have to take it every day, just when I need to really focus. I've found it also can reduce PTSD symptoms, probably because I don't feel that everything is hitting at once, which can cause a trapped and subsequent panicky feeling. I would love to have the opportunity to attend one of your seminars on ADHD; I hope those who have greater access to you appreciate the blessing they are given. I thank you for what you share here; you have helped me and so many others!
Similar experience here. Was always called lazy and berated for having my head up my ass, my head being a sieve, not living up to potential by my Nparent. As an adult it turns out I have primarily inattentive adhd. I’m on a high dose of strattera and it’s not quite doing the trick. Adderall helps but I know it’s a stimulant. Trying to avoid.
I hear you...I also have narcissistic parents but reverse of a typical American family. Mom, raised in occupied Rhineland in a "Jew Free" Germanic town, was your typical (psychopath) narcissist. Dad, a poor Scotts-Irish American raised during the Great Depression, was covert. He never even knew while growing up that his alcoholic father lived seven blocks away. Lived with his severely abusive step father. I don't know about his step father, or his sister or brother, but he worked with his mother in the cotton mills for support. The kids never finished elementary school. So dad was absent, drinking, or just zoned out on his own self pity. Mom used me for emotional support, all the while telling me how clumsy, awkward, big, fat, and stupid I was. My kindergarten teacher wanted to hold me back. "OMG, Paula's failed kindergarten!!!" Mom told me the kids would make fun of me (while doing so herself) and that I would be a "big, dumb, Baby Huey!" And how she wasn't going to let that happen (savior, of her own ego, at least). A couple of weeks later she said, "Don't worry, you will get to go to school like other kids (I didn't even really know what "school" was), THE NUNS SAID THEY WOULD TAKE YOU." Great. I felt like someone just found me an orphanage. Well, when I got out of my seat a few times, my first grade nun tied me to my desk/chair with jump ropes every day. They pulled ears, pinched cheeks, lips (if you spoke) arms, tummys. They smacked you with yard sticks, pointers, and erasers, and smacked your hands and fingers hard with rulers. And I'm expected to pass??? No such luck. Teachers used to say, "Paula is smart but doesn't apply herself." I stopped giving mom notices of parent-teacher days. I am smart and I can pass, but I need help (due to 12 years that I missed out) and I need to constantly study until I know material by heart. I get severe test anxiety. And I really think that's a large part of it. My mom would scream at me constantly if I didn't just "get" something on the first try. I blame teachers too. They don't help, only make life in hell much worse!
Omg so many kids these days locked up inside, having little freedom is it a wonder they let loose at school seeking some sort of normalcy, fun and being accepted for who they are? Rambuctious, needing exercise and a little unscheduled activity!
@@pauladuncanadams1750 God love you; I am so sorry you had to go through all that! it's difficult to rewrite the script in our heads, but it can be done! there are some wonderful subliminal affirmations here in yt that you can listen to while you sleep (can post a link, if you like and if Dr. Ramani wouldn't mind) that help me. it took me a very long time to work on issues of faith because of the hypocrisy I saw, but that helps me, too. I could very much understand how you would have an aversion to issues of belief. how can those who claim to be of God hurt children? I believe in you and more importantly, you believe in you! peace be unto you
@@kimmariebimmarie strong black coffee also helps me and one Monster zero a day, but I also understand that some people have issues with caffeine. if I wake up during the night and can't go back to sleep, I can drink half a pot of dark roast and then sleep soundly! my youngest son (he's now 22) has ADHD inattentive and it can be a challenge to help keep him on task, especially with putting things away and completing tasks. he refuses to try medication and it has and is causing him issues. sometimes a person has to have the consequences of choices so something like ADHD doesn't become an excuse, referring solely to my son. I bid you peace
I have ADD, and I feel awful about how I don't always listen, forget things/get sidetracked, and demand an organized, clutter free environment. I question myself a lot because... well it's the same stuff a narcissist would do. But I'm truly sorry when I tell my child I will listen to their song and get sidetracked... and try to make it up to them. And really listen when they want to be heard. I'm about to break it off with my husband because simply creating a clean space and life where I am functioning at my best has been a journey of anxiety, tears and gaslighting. I realized that he is the narcissistic one. I think just questioning if your needs are narcissistic... is a pretty good sign you're probably not!
If you sincerely apologize, regularly feel remorse , humility and can actually have a good cry about something and enjoy the crying cause it feels healing and truthful then id say your not narcissistic but if being humble and the word humility doesnt ever come to mind it could be that both of you are , i used to be one and im with an extreme covert and see some of my old bad habits sometimes leaking into my brain like the parasite it is , most likely you just being here and if your truly trying to heal then you arent one , but remember we all come from the same source , so the same evil thats in them dwells within us as well and thats definitely one of the scariest parts about being around them for long periods of time is like osmosis it starts to seep in , hold yohr light 11 lead us through each step by step by inch by loaded memory . One and one are one so eleven glow grow child im heading back home !
This is kind of how my family has been with me. It's harder to leave when they try to deny boundaries for health issues and attention span, then try to force your organization habits their way. Even sometimes in your own space. Only recently got better a little because the sibling who would really start arguments and blame others had left.
My husband *exploited* my ADHD for over a decade. It's a very painful realization... I accepted blame for things that were not solely my fault...he used my issues to hide his own!! When he left, I was forced to clean out cupboards, closets, the garage, the yard all by myself. It took well over a year (I'm still processing some of it 3 years later!) but I sure learned a LOT about him by going through that decluttering process alone! He was NOT who he claimed to be! He was a total hoarder! But he managed to hide it by "cleaning" (stuffing!!) and making the house and yard LOOK nice. He always called me the hoarder and always claimed to be the ultra organized one. LOL now I know the truth. I SAW and felt his hoarded garbage with my own eyes and hands as I threw it all away!!! Sadly, many of my personal items (including photos, childhood trinkets, special items etc) had been ruined, crushed and broken by his stuffing... Now, without him, everything has a place and I'm relatively organized. I still struggle with the executive function and motivational aspects of putting things away, but I'm finding ways that help motivate me like listening to certain music and putting aside whole days to dedicate to tidying up, instead of trying to do too much in short timeframes. That seems to be working for me.
I understand completely. Your not a Narc! They are inherently evil creatures. You care, and feel quilty, but should not. They would not even think about quilt what so ever. The Dr. only was referring to a a single trait amongst many those vampires have. I bet you even made up to your daughter ten-fold for getting distracted, too. 😃
Hi KGotshall, The hardest lifestyle for ADHDwomen is to be the parent of ADHD kids. *Please read Thom Hartman "Attention Deficit Disorder:A Different Perspective". on his Hunters and Farmers Theory that we are Hunters in a Farmers World. This changed my life 30 years ago, and the life of my children. I am a hunter, as are my children. *Medication is used by some of us and a game changer also, but it is the change in how we see ourselves and how we focus time and energy on our positives instead of wasting time on endlessly trying to fix the negatives that has a huge effect. *The negatives require strategies to be put in place but they can be. Also habituation is different with us. NonADHD people take 30 days to establish a habit. With us with ADHD it's more 3 months instead of 1. However, once it's in, it stays in. * Simple things can make life easier eg. have 10 pairs of scissors instead of 1. Have multiple combs instead of 1. Put a containter close to where people walk in or just inside the kitchen door and everyone puts their keys in when they walk in the house. Perservere for several months to set this up. Good luck and know that you are not alone.
Thank you for making these differentiations. You hit the nail on the head. It's been my experience that people with ADHD often exhibit very apologetic highly agreeable behavior in regards to the struggles with their disorder, almost excessively so. This is particularly true in conversations and interpersonal situations. Whereas, narcs use it to justify rude and selfish behavior in a disagreeable or antagonistic fashion. Someone with just ADHD will usually recognize that certain behaviors and outcomes are due to their disorder, but they will still actively try to find ways to alleviate them and aim at self-improvement. Meanwhile, narcs usually have no interest in changing their behavioral patterns or improving their flaws (because in their mind they are flawless). I do get frustrated with people who are too keen on details, the ridiculous bureaucracies around us and the fundamental structure of our education system. There are times where that frustration is very justified within people who have ADHD. Our schooling system does need radical restructuring to account for neurodivergent individuals. Rigid detail-obsessed people do miss the forest for the trees. There are too many bureaucratic impediments in society. However, most people with ADHD recognize that's still no excuse to be unempathetic, abrasive or cruel. It's a very complicated relationship between the two disorders. However, I found that empathy, humility and introspection are defining differences between ADHD (or non-ADHD)people who don't have high amounts of narcissism and those who do have high amounts of narcissism. It should also be said that narcissists will use the flaws and struggles of an ADHD person as a means of abuse, control and manipulation. The ADHD person's weaknesses become overamplified and exaggerated. They are made to feel they can't get anything right. They are made to feel that their failures are due to their personal character alone and nothing else. They are intentionally made to feel inadequate and that they should try to do more for the narcissist. They are made to be dependent on the narcissist and are pathologized in an emotionally abusive manner. A person's ADHD symptoms become just another thing for the narcissist to use for invalidation and degradation.
Thank you so much, I've been waiting for this one!!! I've actually seen this difference up close and personal. Once you meet someone with ADHD who isn't a narcissist, the presentation of symptoms (not listening, forgetfulness, etc.) can be quite triggering, but the lack of contemptuousness really does change how it feels. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for all that you do and the links to resources!! Learning from you over the past year has changed my life ❤
This ADD really caused me a lot of problems in school but after 19 of school I finally found out if I put a recording on 2x or more speed then I don't get distracted as often, which I think is kinda ironic!😅😂
i have my ADHD symptoms even when I'm alone and don't interact with people. I have it even when Im trying to watch stuff I enjoy. You say a word, it makes me think of something else, and then I start thinking about that thing, and not paying attention anymore. And then I gotta keep rewinding, and getting frustrated.
Thank you for this video. It has helped me put a lot of my relationships into perspective. While married to my ex for 22 years, he was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, ADHD, mood disorders, and anger issues. Both our son were diagnosed with ADHD while in kindergarten. My oldest son (a loving, caring soul) has the inattentive part of ADHD and never tells anyone he has it or uses it as an excuse. He has an great eye for detail and is a talented artist. He is ashamed of having ADHD and goes into a shutdown mode constantly. He believes he is stupid even though he has a superior IQ. My youngest son has the impulsivity and hyperactivity traits.He always runs his mouth, causes trouble, bullies his peers, has a very high opinion of himself, and uses and treats people very badly. He constantly lies! No one is better or smarter than him. Now, I see how ADHD is genetic. My ex never connected or liked our oldest son and always favored our youngest son. Now, I understand why. Our youngest son is a exact carbon copy of his father. It breaks my heart. Thankfully, my oldest son and I are close.
This is great info. Please, please, please do a video on narcissism vs PTSD! So many people (myself included) write off narc abuse as PTSD. I would love for you to clear up the distinction between the two. BTW your videos are a godsend. Keep doing what you do, Dr. Ramani. You are such a big help to so many people!
I’m ADHD, diagnosed in January as an adult, and if anything? I spent way more time and effort trying to listen and make people comfortable than I ever realised wasn’t what everyone was doing. Both my parents are narcs and actually... my symptoms were things they picked on me about the most as a kid. Would love to hear a bit more about that side of things, selfishly 😂 but this was interesting
Interesting. Do you think an ADHD kid is more likely to become the scapegoat in a narcissistic family system? And I agree. I'd love to see Dr Ramani talk more about narcissistic parents and their kids.
I often forgot to bring my lunchbox home from school from ages 6-10. My narc mom would berate me for it. Telling me that if I really loved her I would be able to remember and since I couldn’t I must be a selfish person who does not care about the family. I think she refused to medicate my adhd when I was diagnosed because it would take away one of her main leverages to convince me I’m worthless.
I received my diagnosis last year after I got severely depressed due to workplace bullying by my narcissistic boss. And yes, I did A LOT for the things that people claimed that I did not. For instance, my boss said "did you not listen to my instruction?" after I came to her with a different thing than what she requested. looking back, actually i did listen to her. i didnt know what it was, so i asked "can you clarify on that?" only to be told "it's your job, you should know better". i didnt know better back then but i was consistently gaslighted by my boss AND her boss every single day during the lockdown until i started to question my reality, i felt i was going insane and that i was not worthy of existence. i lost my self worth and it was truly a dark experience.
Yes! I was thinking she was going to talk about how easy people with ADHD are to lie to! I have ADHD myself, and all my narcissistic partner had to do was say, "don't you remember, I told you that already and you agreed to it! You must've just not been paying attention again." And we get frustrated and emotional easily, so it's easy for them to push our buttons to get us to yell or cry, which of course is an automatic argument "win" for the narcissist, because they won't discuss this with us if we're going to lose control like that. And we're easier to confuse about certain things - with finances, he purposefully created this really complicated spreadsheet with all kinds of formulas that I was supposed to enter all my costs into. And if I asked him a question about money, he'd roll his eyes and tell me that if I entered things into the spreadsheet I'd know the answer and why didn't I consult it instead of asking him? All different little ways he'd take advantage of it.
Thanks for shedding light on the various distinctions :) I have ADHD, and I was worried I had NPD. But I’ve never been contemptuous about anything, I feel terrible when I can’t concentrate on what ppl are saying. And if I mention something I’ve experienced, it’s not to bring attn to myself, but to try show I understand and relate a little to what they’re talking about. Maybe there’s a better way to do that though.
I know a narcissist with adhd. She straight up told my sister and I that she isn't interested in what other people have to say because she doesn't think it's important
I know someone who has both too and they are using these lame excuses of ADHD every time they disagree with something or they are too bored to listen. They phrase it in a rude way too. It's utterly pathetic.
I was like that too, sometimes. Not because i don't care. But because I know I'm just going to forget about it....... The thing is... I even forget about things that are important to me. Sorry...
Hi am ADHDr here ! Routines , Mindfullness , post it notes , nature a lot of cardio , cutting back on excessive sugar and a desperate desire to want to be an example to my children that we can overcome anything with behavioral modifications and the correct adaptions . I do think there’s a strong correlation between abused children and ADHD but there are also just legitimately those who have it When treated you’ll find just like many on the autistic spectrum there’s a hidden super gift inside that the world could do with Like any mental health diagnosis there’s a solution saved my life - when we have the right environment and the right tools our brains can begin to regulate - our environment , a genuine desperation to have a better lifestyle and the correct behavioral plan has saved my life . Not sure if it’s a coincidence but my adhd symptoms also got a lot better when I left and went no contact with narcissists- it would make sense , stress doesn’t help anyone even nuerotypical people can be effected so bottom line is advocate for yourself and do what you gotta do to get better because there is help, resources and groups out there to help allow us to live our best life
Hey I was diagnosed a year ago, and I am really struggling. I didn't like taking ritalin so I stopped taking it. Do you have any more detailed tips on how to "get it together"
I was diagnosed with AD(H)D two weeks ago and come from a narcissistic family and a cult where I was "operated" by a narcissistic caregiver. I first thought my inattention was only about the narc abuse, but it didn't improve very much being one year out and then it came out. I was so worried I was narcissistic for so long, or had antisocial traits, and it's such a relief that now that I was offered medication I _can_ listen, and I'm less impulsive and "snappy", and I can offer people more in the sense of care and understanding, and take other people's perspective. I also enjoy that I'm more "boring" and blend in more, and am overall a bit less trouble for other people. That said, Dr. Ramani, your timing was really lucky for me. =) Thanks so much for your wonderful content, I really appreciate you and the things you teach us.
this is what I'm trying to say. ADHD is CPTSD from the narcissistic abuser. Try going suddenly 100% no contact with the narc(and their contacts) without even letting them even know if you are alive or dead and then watch what happens to your ADHD.
I have adhd and we constantly feel sorry and ashamed and are often really empathetic and loving people, because we know what it feels like to fail. I actually think that we are more vulnerable to narcissists because of all the rejection we receive especially as children. And we stay longer because we are so used to get put down by close family and teachers...
I remember when I got my ADHD diagnosis and I tried to talk to my old best friend, who I believe is a narcissist, about what I was experiencing and she kept cutting me off to say “oh i experience that too” “me too” I felt like she was hijacking my diagnosis lol
I think that's also a common microaggression. People will be like "everyone's a little ADHD" but don't understand how much it actually impacts your everyday life.
Sometimes people are just trying to feel they can relate/connect to you too though, and also many people do experience the symptoms adhd people have, but just not to the same persistent degree, so they think they understand when they don’t. I’m not saying she didn’t hijack it, she may well have, as I think instincts are too often overlooked for the value they truly have, so you are probably right in this instance, I’m just suggesting that it could be something else too.
My ex narc would develop ADHD whenever I would try to talk about my day or anything that would interest me but she would tell me every detail of her day with no problem.
Omg same! They would interrupt me, cut me off saying ‘I don’t want to talk about this’ if the conversation didn’t suit them (one conversation they did this was when I tried to open up to them about my cousin’s stage 4 cancer operation/progress update)...and even had the nerve to tell me off in front of people/in public settings when I’d try and join the conversation. But if they were talking, strap yourself in for an hour+ long conversation about their opinions on a topic, talking loudly and not allowing you to get a word in sideways. It ended up being a headache of white noise for me, I felt bad for shutting off but it got draining emotionally and physically. So glad they’re in the past! Hoping you are doing better without your Nex also!
There's no end to narcissistic behaviour, hey. 😂😂😂 He dozed off when I started talking to him😂😂😂; the phone rings, and he can speak for an hour in a very alert state. 😂
But of course, they should have it in the wedding vows, love, honour and listen! Being married equals/hearing "I told you already!" countless times....
Heard that ADHD "excuse" many times. Often combined with an angry " I'm sorry you don't understand adhd" ... Always thought if it really was ADHD there would be at least a willingness to be a little more attentive...but it was always "this is how it is, accept it or don't"
I agree. I don't think someone who has to deal with ADHD would be so at ease to use it as an excuse for being rude. I understand an ADHD person being direct and no nonsense in speech but someone saying "I would kick my housemate out of the house without remorse if I dont want to share my space anymore, I wouldn't care" . And then says: do you want to travel together? Heck no 😅
@@koraXro yes my 18yo daughter was diagnosed with ADHD 1-2yrs ago, originally she was very ashamed and didn’t tell anyone (not even her teachers). She has zero filter (impulse control), but never says anything out of malice, she has the hyperactive type and can monopolise conversations, but in etc. it can be very frustrating and appear rude but I have seen the other side where she has cried to the psychologist about accidentally hurting peoples feelings 😞. And she is the first to use that non filtered voice to stick up for anyone being bullied ❤️.
Through therapy i was diagnosed with ADHD. Through more therapy we discovered I was the scapegoat for a covert narcissist mother. These difference are 100% i space out when people talk all the time. Stuff grabs my attention. Ideas and thought run wild in my head all the time. I'm very fidigity when sitting to long. Went in to therapy for me having depression and I came out with adhd/depression/anxiety and a sign of hope to finally heal and start my life. I have 26 years to make up.
If a narcissist uses ADHD as an excuse for their behaviour, then that tells me that they have full knowledge of who they are and try hard to find something to blame their behaviour on so they do not get called out on it. One of my ex-colleagues used that same excuse to explain away his behaviour only for me to finally realise I was dealing with a covert narc the whole time. I am intrigued over how and why they tend to use the same lies to mask their true identity.
I think many narcissists are in denial about their behaviour, such that they'd genuinely believe they have ADHD. Narcissism is incredibly misunderstood, so what are the odds that narcissist would be self-aware of their own narcissism? Many people think narcissism is the overt type (grandiose / classic / oblivious), so coverts think they don't have the disease. Similarly, some narcs think they're autism spectrum. The difference between an autist and a narcissist is once you tell an autist that their behaviour is harming you they will be remorseful, apologetic, and try to rectify it, whereas a narcissist will deny it, and twist it back on you. So, in my experience, most coverts are aware that something is wrong, but the last thing they'll ever admit even to themselves, is that they are narcissists.
Ya unless it’s been adhd this entire time... see that’s the thing adhd is an impulsive disorder... so whoever has it looks like they’re not paying attention to there significant other and does stupid impulsive shit... so it can be confusing
I have ADD and have a female colleague who might have a cluster B disorder because she has clearly symptoms of it like emotion regulation, gets stressed out and mad easily, childish voice, very insecure et cetera. Eating salads and fruit one day and smokes a package and drinks energy drinks the other day. And she told me she has ADHD and I asked her if she was diagnosed and she said no then I told her I'm diagnosed and use ritalin. Very awkward situation it was. Never listening too her though lol always irritating her with my talkative ways. I need to work on myself though.
I’ve been married to a narcissist for 37 years, but didn’t connect the dots until a few years ago. Pretty much every video you make is my life. For years I spent hours on my computer researching various personality disorders, and 10 years ago, I stumbled on a book about adult ADHD and he seemed to have every symptom. I chewed on that for a few years but kept searching until I came to the realization it was full blown narcissism. I could write a book here but I want to say that your videos have been a tremendous help to me in understanding this illness and how to cope.
Thank you for this video. I like the way that you used the presence of empathy and absence of contempt to differentiate ADHD from narcissism. This video is useful in raising awareness of ADHD.
Narcissism vs avoidant attachment style pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! I LOVE YOU (as a respectful fan who maintains her distance and respects your privacy and the fact that we don't know each other!) and and and NPD vs people with the grandiose schema who are actually sweethearts and don't mistreat anyone and score extremely low on narcissism despite having that schema
@@joywebster2678 thanks so much but that was about Avoidant Personality disorder which has no relation or commonalities with Avoidant attachment style (psychologists and psychiatrists are really bad at naming things)
I’m very happy to see this video my daughter father has ADHD and he uses this disorder to ignore me when I confront him about his hyper sexual behavior and mannish activities while I’m at work I left him for a year after he cheated he recently too me to Tucson Arizona as a vacation and displayed the exact same behavior! After the vacation he demanded everything back even stock shares he bought, because I didn’t take him back soon enough
Yikes! I have severe ADHD (on disability for it under neurological/brain damage). Yes I've made some embarrassing mistakes with sexual impulsivity but I've NEVER cheated on anyone! That's not an ADHD issue, it's a morality issue!
Thank you Dr. Ramani for this. It’s horrible how society resents people with ADHD even as they apologize relentlessly. I’ve never met someone with ADHD that used their disability as an excuse and didn’t apologize but I’ve certainly seen friends who I suspect are on the narcissist spectrum zone out and rudely not care when you call them out. People with ADHD spent a lifetime carrying this shame, crippling their life in every regard so it’s unlikely they would not care or use it as some excuse. I will say the interruption for me is more driven by a lack of working memory so I can’t hold the thought in long enough but I try aggressively to monitor that and apologize. My nex would interrupt to pívot back to blaming me. I like how you said you can tell a lot in the narcs body language/facial expressions. Especially when they try to monopolize the conversation!
My last long-term partner (diagnosed with ADHD + Antisocial PD) really weaponized ADHD to explain away their gaslighting and invalidating demeanour during conversations a lot. A tip on something to really look out for is if they can easily switch it up once someone else is there to observe them. Cause once a third party was brought in, there was always 0 eye-rolling and sighing and looking away or at their phone/watch, ridiculing/nitpicking what or how I said things (or even looked, in a really irrelevant way not relating to for example emoting, when I did), getting frustrated to the point of yelling or storming off at the slightest hint of criticism etc. Which, in itself, was really gaslighty and horrible as well - cause it always made it seem like I exaggerated how hard communicating with them was (cause when someone else could see or hear it, they listened and validated and made oh-so-sure how willing they were to do better if, alas, only I could just tell them HOW - as if I hadn't tried every means of communication under the sun over and over again for years. Then you all know the drill: back to just us and it's square one like a light switch).
I know exactly what you're talking about. It horrified me when I realized someone was doing this to me because 1) you've been singled out and targeted, and 2) the fact that they can control behaviours excused as ADHD symptoms when others can see proves that they know they're misbehaving.
wow i relate to this alot. My partner has adhd but im pretty sure theres more going on there as he is very defiant , rude and can get verbally so cold nasty and rejective. He struggles so much with any crticism , when we had therapy with someone once he was literally like a different person , really understanding , really contained , didn't show any of his snappy , harsh rude sides and it felt utterly frustrating to witness. what ive noticed with him aswell is how quickly eh switches between idolising me and saying i'm perfect to blaming me for his own stuff and not being able to empathise much at all when we are in conflict. i'm really struggling to work out whats going on with him , he isnt a full blown Narc and yet he denies and deflects and gets very atogonistic when we are fighting.
So, I guess I'm somewhat like your last partner. I did grow a lot more resistant to criticism and I don't storm off when someone close voices it anymore. But it took some training. Personally, I wrote those emotions off as sensitive rejection dysphoria, which is common with ADHD people. But now I don't even know how you can separate it from a narcissist's fragile personality because a lot of the symptoms look very similar. With that said, I'm not sure if this is full-blown or true NPD because, for me, these knee-jerk reactions and the ability to control my impulses get a lot better if I take ADHD stimulant medications that day. It makes me a lot stabler emotionally and either outright reduces such knee-jerk reactions to a bare minimum or gives me more control over how I express them (i.e., I have time to see what my first reaction is, realize it's inadequate, toss it away and respond in a better way). I think there's more interplay between ADHD and NPD than we think, but it's not straight forward what influences what...
Thank you!!!! I appreciate this video a lot!! I have true ADHD. I have a Mother with high vulnerable narcissistic traits. I went no contact last Easter….So, after watching many of your videos I now know I also have been in a relationship with someone for over 17 years also with high narcissism traits and have children with her…she says she has Autism now and blames my ADHD struggles for her mental health issues and most of our relationship issues…I am trying to weed out and understand clearly what my part is and what it is not as I tend to apologize for everything just to keep the peace even if I have not done anything wrong…I have always put others before myself and my health has suffered because of it and I don’t want to model that to my kids so I am learning new ways to live and how to like myself. (Gotta say, hardest work I’ve done to date) Your videos have truly changed my life in so many healthy ways…Thank you…again 💗
I've been diagnosed with AD(H)D at the age of 34. 5 months later I've been diagnosed with a burnout, one year after that I've been diagnosed with a somatic symptom disorder. 6 months after that with c-ptsd and that explained everything and the hell of my longterm relationship. Thank you so much for this video, dr Ramani! ❤
Fantastic. I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 30s and had a BPD narcissistic mother who I suspect also had ADHD. It’s always been my fear that I would end up like her, a borderline, but I make it my business to be self aware and consciously take another route. Being raised by a narcissist though, I think one can adopt certain characteristics due to learned behavior. I often relate to others by sharing a story about myself, in an effort to convey understanding. My father has often called me “self involved” because of all of the “I” statements I use. This video serves as a good reminder of how I can be perceived. I don’t want to be a conversational narcissist or listen to anyone with contempt.
Hey Dr. Ramani! Had to let you know that your videos helped me and my partner meet each other. We both learned from your videos before we met, and talking about narcissists is what got us talking for 3 hours after I picked her up while I was Ubering. We found our soulmates partly thanks to you :)
WOW! You are on fire! I have ADHD and I was watching your videos and I was thinking man! I really wonder what her perspective on ADHD is! You're pumping out so much content! Keep it up! :) Something I'd like to clarify for your viewers is that someone with ADHD can have sustained attention on something that they are interested in (particularly when it is new information). So when they first start dating someone, when they discover a new hobby, etc. They might spend the whole day focusing on one thing! So the disorder is really about the executive function of focusing attention and managing time other other executive functions. If you are interested in learning more about ADHD I would look for Russel Barkley (sadly he does not have an awesome youtube channel). I really liked how well you talked about ADHD! It often is talked about by people who think they understand and then spout out myths. Sadly these people include doctors and psychologists, so it was great to see that you were keeping up to date with research and again I really appreciate it :)
OMG My former fiance and would be mother-in-law intermittently claimed that he had a diagnosis company ADHD. He would deny it and then use the diagnosis when beneficial to himself his mother used to explain his behavior / temperament. Thank you so much for this content and education.
Just finished the video on autism vs narcissism and saw this one and so I HAD to click it since I have ADHD. One thing in particular that I liked is how you pointed out multiple ways that narcissists will use ADHD as an excuse for their narcissistic behaviors. Also I liked that you mentioned that many of those people have never actually been diagnosed with ADHD, but they've learned about it and have incorporated it as a way to deflect blame and avoid ever having to apologize. And finally, speaking of apologizing, that is something else you mentioned that I liked as well: people who have been diagnosed with ADHD are typically worried and/or apologetic of their behavior when they or someone else notices it. Narcissistic people, in my experience, avoid the words "I'm sorry" like it's the plague; they rarely if ever admit mistakes or apologize, and they almost always react negatively when they are called out... UNLESS, of course, they can find some reason that making a token apology could give them some sort of advantage socially/etc.
Thank you for you videos Dr Ramani. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I just escaped a 5 year relationship. During this time I have been diagnosed with Adult ADHD & also the auto immune disease , psoriatic arthritis . You’re videos are really helping me to heal & understand what has been happening to me. Just wish I’d found you sooner ❤️
Thank you so much for posting this. I have combined type ADHD and I feel so guilty for my ADHD symptoms constantly and to hear people compare it to narcissism is really disheartening. I try very very hard to manage my symptoms and none of them are intentional. One thing I've noticed that is also pretty common in people with ADHD (either inattentive or hyperactive) is that we are major people pleasers because of how inconvenienced people tend to be by our symptoms.
Thank you so much for this! Been wondering about it for a while. It would be interesting to know more about other causes for rage in various disorders compared to narcissistic rage, since ADHDers for example, often experience meltdowns, especially in combination with sensory overload, and I've noticed this is sometimes hard to interpret for outsiders.
Yes. I’ve grown out of the adhd rage syndrome (I’m now 70) but it was a undiagnosed and distressing problem in childhood and adolescence. I felt so guilty about it all my life. Now I know it was my adhd brain chemistry and can learn to forgive myself. Thank you for your comment!!
A huge component of ADHD is emotional dysregulation. To learn more about it, I suggest to look into Russell Barkley! His lectures and books have been a game changer. Hope this helps!
Good Evening Dr Ramani: June 1st is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day (WNAAD) occurs on June 1st every year. Established in 2016, Keep spreading the awareness!!!!!
Hi everyone, well malignant mom blamed her lack of ability to concentrate on this but, by then, it was just in one ear and out the other for me, trying to be polite yet as short as possible, woman needed a lion tamer!
By listening your videos i could learn so much, that i could start the healing process of my husband. Both of his parents are extremely narcissistic. I have them in my family too, so now i can predict exactley their acts and behaviour. THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr. Ramani.
I've suspected for a while that my last ex was a narcissist (he was more covert, so I didn't notice it when it was happening) and you've just described him: he *always* blamed his adhd for not being able to listen, contemptuous inattention, his impulsivity, how much he avoided responsibility. And he even admitted he self-diagnosed as adhd but tbh I think he had that, *and* npd. He had all these other horrible behaviours and it just clicked: he's a narcissist. He gaslit me all the time, and I knew that but I kept trying to change him (lol, I know), he love-bombed and became a completely different person a few months after we met when we had decided to stop seeing other people, he was cold and emotionless (my dog died and I was heartbroken and he said "well, what, it's just a dog and anyway she had cancer so you knew she was going to die soon anyway" and he couldn't understand how that is hurtful and not OK to say. But I hadn't put 2 and 2 together until now.
your ex is an asshole to act like such a piece of shit when you lost your dog. im sorry that happened to you. thank god you are no longer dating this person, they would have destroyed you. they often do.
My ex used to constantly use ADHD as an excuse for never listening to me, yet he would focus so hard on other people (only if they were validating him in some way of course) or the RUclips videos he would constantly watch. I would tell him it's not selective like that and he said I was "making fun of his disability". furthermore I have actually been diagnosed with ADHD in college and I know it's not like that. Thank you Doctor Ramani
Ya no kidding, mine's the same! He's really screwed himself making himself too comfortable with the big screen TV and now has physical trouble trying to do otherwise! I'll bet they've realized they couldn't get anything more out of us, we're spent!
He probably just didn't want to deal with a chick who thinks dudes are supposed to submit to them lol. You picked wrong you are responsible for your own bad choices of men. If you weren't in love why do you believe you are entitled to have anyone listen to you? If you were in love, why did you pick such a low value guy? Why not stay single until you find a...oh because you don't like real men who take no shit. You chose your narcissist because you don't value yourself.
my ex did have ADHD and an avoidant attachment style and so resembled NPD but absolutely wasn't, overall a good person but I wish I could have convinced him to get help. They are very very distinctive characteristics
Thank you for this clear explanation. I have ADHD (predominately inattentive type). Working to explain to someone that my ADHD may affect certain things in my life is one thing, but using it as an excuse not to try is quite another. I have always hated that people say ADHD is just an excuse (I've never understood how that is possible) Listening to you helps me to see that a certain someone in my life does indeed use her ADHD as an excuse for her disgusting behaviour.
Thank you so much for this! It is good to have clarification on this, I wish there was more. It seems to me that both of my parents demonstrate many of the presentations of both ADHD and narcissism. I have been formally diagnosed with ADHD. and want to be able to weed out any of the narsasism that got past on to me and get all of the emotionally abusive coping mechanisms out of my life. and being able to see what the diference between these is is so very helpful. it is super awesome that now that i have my ADHD more managed how much better I am at seeing my own anxiety, and other coping styles. and also it seems like i have been able to learn so much more about myself and also stay present during the times that i start to dissociate. and it helps me be able to process things so much better.
I watched all of your videos a year ago about this and then started to justify that my parents weren't being abusive or narcissistic. but they just had ADHD. but after learning and accepting all of the emotional abuse that they have done. i think that i am ready to not justify all of their abuse.
Wow. I searched and searched for the link between these two things whwn I broke up and left a narcissist last year. This is soooo helpful. And kind of validates what I see in retrospect. Glad to be at a place of forgiveness now (with keeping no contact, of course!!!)
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was young and used to take medication for it. I take supplements now and practice CBT to get through the automatic negative thoughts and to see how other people see things. It helps me focus on what people say to me. The hard part is recognizing when I am acting narcissistic and reign it in. Especially when I think I am entertaining the people around me and they don't appreciate it. I think self awareness has helped.
OMG, you never cease to amaze me. My ex would ask a question and the person asked would begin to answer the question and only five words would come out of their mouth before my ex would cut them off and ask another question.
My eldest son is a narcissist and when he was in year 6 his teacher suggested he had ADHD! I thought she was mad to be honest, so this video was really interesting. Thank you
Are you 100% he is a narcissist? Imagine how sad it would be for you to go no contact with your son who might br ADHD or even something else as well. That would be tragic.
You are my favorite on these topics. You are gentle and kind and have a great sense of humor! Thank you for these videos that you do! I have learned alot from your videos!
My boyfriend has Aspergers with symptoms of ADHD, and my ex-counselor asked me one session, “is he a narcissist?” Very professional. No, like me he’s just an asshole because his brain is different and you attribute motives based on your own neurology. 🤣 We both have severe trauma from being gaslit by neurotypicals for 4 decades, so that was not really a surprise. People learning to recognize the difference is an important thing for our community.
My brother has autism while I believe my dad is covertly narcissistic. Autistic children of narcs tend to struggle even more as they usually become scapegoats in the family dynamic. But it’s a similar thing to what she’s saying about ADHD. If an Autistic person hurts your feelings by not understanding emotional cues, they will usually apologize if you gently explain it. Autistic meltdowns also usually look way different from narcissistic rage. An autistic person will truly lose control during a meltdown, but if you pay attention to narcissistic rage you will notice that they usually rage at specific people and their actions seem more specifically targeted to hurt.
@@alyssab90 Hey, thank you for that thought. I have been wondering about that. And I completely agree. Though being on the spectrum myself... I think I might still discover that I have occasional intent to hurt, but I feel terribly bad if I act on it - It get's almost unbearable. I think what made me connect the two is that it is said that "Autistic people have no empathy". I learned that Narcs and Autistic people just have two different types of empathy. Autism: Affective Empathy but lacking Cognitive empathy (They feel for you, but they struggle to express it). Narcissism: Cognitive Empathy lacking affective Empathy (They can imagine how you feel, but they can barely feel with you. And they use their cognitive abilities to charm or hurt others). At least that's what I learned. I hope I repeated it correctly. I'm sorry about your Brother. I hope he doesn't have to suffer too much from your Dad. Definitely a really sad combo. My Friends Dad drove her brother into suicide using him as a scapegoat. Autistic people are 3 times more prone to committing suicide than normal people. Even more reason to keep your brother away from your Father.
Thank you so much! I have ADHD and I always worried it came it across as something else more nefarious like, narcissism, this really helps to explain the differences between an accommodation being needed versus just an excuse.
One of the biggest ways I've ever brought out my narcissistic parent's rage was when I'd gotten diagnosed with ADHD at age 36. "Oh!", she said on the phone, "you were diagnosed with that at age eight." "Why didn't you tell me? Why didn't anybody do anything? So much trouble was utterly preventable. You had a *responsibility*." Even though I got the diagnosis confirmed in triplicate with rigorous tests, from that point on, she was determined to convince people it was a lie and my medical condition was whatever defamatory thing she could come up with. My ADHD went from something she'd blurt, to a thing she was on the warpath to destroy my social standing over. Note to folks out there: whenever your health situation implicates a narcissistic parent's poor parenting, get away! You've become living evidence of their shortcomings, and they'll play dirty.
I've been learning this lesson recently....didn't finish my University degree, got into an accident that totaled my car, almost lost my job but was put on on short term disability instead and all I kept hearing throughout was ''oh you're just like me, except I didn't have anyone to help guide me through all of this! Aren't you lucky!'' Unfortunately, I had to move back home. Recently got diagnosed with ADHD and I've been trying to heal my inner child....noticing all the ways I was neglected. acknowledgement for what I personally went through
Woah. My story was similar without the narc. Diagnosed at age 44, called my mom while in the pharmacy parking lot, was told about my childhood diagnosis. In my case, she believed all the bad press in the 80's about Ritalin and never even tried to help in any other way with therapy or anything else. Same result though. Feeling things could have been way different had I known. It took me a few years, but what I figured out as I learned about my new situation was that she most likely also has it. There is a strong genetic link to mothers after all and she displays a lot of inattentive and impulsive behaviors. Once I realized that, it became clear to me she was not really capable of doing anything about it anyway. She was as ignorant about it as I was and as effective as I was at mitigating something I didn't know was there.
I can't get my damn family to look at or listen to your work even though the members are embroiled in a situation with a narcissistic relative. I've encouraged that they see you and hear you; it's to no avail. It's really frustrating. You're right on.
Exactly! I have ADHD and the number of times I went back and forth with my bosses to discuss and agree some strategies to help me do my job to the absolute best of my ability. I never approached it as a given - always politely asked whether there is anything reasonable that could be done about xyz to help. I always tried out my boss's suggestions, whatever they were, cause I don't see myself as having some superior knowledge. Some worked, some didn't but the point is - it was a team effort to get the best out of me, never me telling them what they "owe" me. If I'm late, I apologise and try harder the next day - never used my ADHD as an excuse for my lateness. If I can't focus and listen, I politely ask the person to repeat themselves adding openly that I struggled to focus and would like a second chance to properly engage with them. If I overreact and treat someone unfairly, I take the time to cool down and then go and apologise for my behaviour without excuses. Then I try harder next time. This is the difference between ADHD and narcissism.
I have ADHD (and autism) and my dad has narc tendencies (he refuses to go to therapy so we’ll never know for sure if he actually has NPD), but when I have interrupted someone it’s by accident and I apologize, or it’s because I’m super eager to relate to what they’re saying. I realized when this is done to me it’s hurtful and feels like the other person isn’t listening/doesn’t care, so I’ve stopped interrupting! My dad interrupts because he doesn’t think what you’re saying is important. He dominates the conversation and will scream over the person he’s talking to until they stop talking. He thinks so highly of himself and his opinions when he himself is an absolute disaster. When he interrupts me and I ask to finish what I’m saying he’ll say “I already know what you’re going to say.” But if you interrupt HIM it’s a problem and he explodes. I feel like that sums up the difference perfectly.
The evolution of Trauma Bond coupled with ADHD is the most horrific experience; the rage, the labeling and the shame is the last thing ADHD people need.
Wow, I didn't realize that ADHD has such a bad reputation that it would get confused with narcissism! I was diagnosed after my son was (common story for women), and although life is significantly easier for me now that I'm taking medication, I don't think that other people have noticed much of a change. I'm still 1-20 minutes late to everything. (I'm working on it! Tip: try to have another appointment before your real appointment. For me, it can be as simple as throwing the book I'm reading in my purse and saying "I'll arrive early and have time to read!" Whenever I remember to do this, I'm on time! ) Other than that... I already know how to quickly build a railway line back to the original topic when I realize that I've derailed my friend's train of thought. I purposely have my friend tell everything on her mind before I speak so that just in case I talk too much, at least she'll have already felt heard. I know that I'm bad at keeping up with people so I plan recurring meets instead of having to figure out new plans every time. I'm bad at birthday and holiday cards, so I go for spontaneous celebrations and parties. I listen better while drawing or knitting. To me, being bad at the things that I'm bad at makes me a bit odd and sometimes annoying, but not a bad friend. Why would it? My son is also very ADHD and a terrible chatterbox, but he has a kind heart and gets along with everyone: little kids, his own age, adults, seniors. He is interested by most things, and as long as it's social, he's happy to do what's interesting for the other person. It seems alarming to me that ADHD and narcissist personality disorder would ever be confused. Maybe I'm ruder than I realized?
I completely agree. Really really? Like narcs? I am a good listener. I regard it as a love language; it’s how I show deep respect to people and comfort friends.
This video is scattered and not so nuanced. There is a LOT to cover about ADHD relationships. Being ADHD puts you at higher risk for abuse, but at the same time it doesn't mean people with ADHD are never abusive or fall into toxic dynamics. I think people who are undiagnosed tend to have developed RSD and a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms. I know a lot of undiagnosed ADHD men end up in relationships where they expect their NT partner to basically parent them but also to cut them endless slack. If you are managing it and acknowledge what things are harder for you, then this video probably doesn't apply!
i have BPD, somehow seem to attract a lot of narcissists + everyone I've dated has had ADHD (coincidence, not intentional). From my own experience I think narcissist traits can develop from ADHD, I've noticed a fair amount of overlap
So glad you made this video...my son has added and is getting help for it..he recognizes it and wants a better life...he fit almost all of the narcissistic traits and I thought he was..now I know he's not.
Every time I watch a video, it's as if you're describing daily issues within my life! My husband, I started becoming aware of his narc tendencies about a year and a half ago. Like a light bulb was flickering and now it's straight up - out; I have identified it, no question. But the part about how one can start to show adhd symptoms as a reaction caused by the stress and anxiety from dealing with narc abuse, is what really interests me. This was never an issue for me, yet gradually, it has become one. Where it gets REALLY interesting, is that I was diagnosed with MS in Dec of 2016. Now Ive analyzed that year and those leading up to it, then sandwiched it between "likely genetically predispositioned" and "geographic susceptibility," VOILA, MS! But now I truly wonder if it could have been brought on through the constant stress...?
I'm sorry, what is MS? Also, I've experienced that too - I've been with narcs for about 7 years + my mother (highly narcissistic). ADHD was never an issue for me either but the last 7 years feel almost like a blur, I have severe memory laps and time just seems to pass by. It is super interesting that Dr. Ramani links these symptoms to narcissistic abuse, I was wondering if I actually had ADHD cause it felt like it
I'm convinced my health issues were due to the narcissistic traits of my spouse. So yeah I think the hormonal disregulation involved in abusive relationships is a causative factor in many health conditions. Not for sure about MS though. Might be worth it to research.
I just found out that Gaby exists and came back to this video I watched when it came out and only thought: Cool video. Now I think I love Dr. Ramani even more. ❤️
FINALLY! I have soooooo needed this discussion. Thank you for speaking to this -- it means everything to me to get a better understanding of these two sources of behavior!💞💐🙏🏼🥳 It would be great to hear even more about how to distinguish between what is an artifact of ADHD and what is more an issue with narcissism. A larger distinction that helps to understand the differences of CAN'T versus WON'T. When someone is behaving in a way that is disruptive, for example interrupting, understanding that the interrupting happens because the person simply cannot read contextual cues very well is very different than the person who is trying to mow you over to get to the microphone. Recognizing the distinction between these two sources of behavior would be very helpful in 1-on-1 situations and group (e.g., family) situations.
Thank you for spreading awareness as always Dr. Ramani! However, as someone who has severe ADHD themselves, I would like to mention a couple things! Sorry for the super duper long post-it’s like a freaking BOOK, but it’s something that has affected me my entire life and is very important for others to understand. First, the medical community has recently removed ADD as a diagnosis and only calls it ADHD now. However, there are three presentations of ADHD that include-Hyperactive/Impulsive (the “classic” and stereotypical presentation, and the one that boys tend to usually have and doctors look for-often leading to girls being under diagnosed), Inattentive, and also Combined Type (which is both, and what I have!). So, technically ADD is not really a term used anymore, because it is now just called ADHD-Inattentive Presentation (or type). I think they’ve done this to make it less confusing. But honestly, in my opinion, and much of the ADHD community in general-the name itself (ADHD) is highly misleading and even stigmatizing. People with ADHD do not necessarily only LACK in attention-because we tend to actually HYPERFOCUS, but mostly on things that we shouldn’t be focusing on (aka FUN STUFF, yay lol) because we have other priorities to work on first. This is because we have a neurological imbalance of dopamine in our brains-a.k.a. the “feel good” chemical. Because of the lack of dopamine, we tend to become more addicted to risky behaviors such as gambling and binge eating, unsafe sex, overspending or drugs and alcohol abuse because of the high levels of dopamine produced. Our tendency towards impulsivity can lead us to try these things without necessarily thinking through the consequences, not to mention many of the other co-morbid conditions that may increase our risk of addiction as well such as depression, anxiety, and other mental health conditions. But, to try to explain to someone without ADHD-think of it like this... we go through our lives every single day, like a bucket trying to fill up with water, but the only problem is that 1.) there’s a gaping hole in the bottom 2.) there’s a veryyy slow trickle of water (dopamine) coming into our buckets and 3.) every activity that we do involving any type of executive function (planning, time management, emotional regulation, decision making, and literally everything we struggle with) takes some of our very little and precious water out. Not to mention other people trying to hog our water and all the interruptions that constantly mess up the little focus and energy we have on our tasks at hand. And the only thing that helps this lack of water (concentration/energy/executive functioning) is stimulant medication. Those who are Neurotypical and don’t have ADHD already generally have enough dopamine, so they don’t need anymore. That’s why if they do abuse stimulant meds, they get high because it produces TOO much! Whereas those with ADHD take them as a necessity, because it helps fill up our “buckets” (our brains) with “water” to a more normal/healthy level. Sorry for explaining this badly, my mind is kinda scattered right now! Anyways, my point is, ADHD is MUCH more complex than the general public thinks it is. It’s NOT the stereotype when people say, “Ooh! Look a squirrel!” because it’s sooooo much deeper than that and interferes with every aspect of my life than just being distracted. Anyone who wants to learn more about ADHD specifically, I would recommend the RUclips channel “How to ADHD” with Jessica! She’s so amazing and I’ve learned so much about myself through her channel. So beneficial to our community that is already HIGHLY stigmatized and misunderstood. Also, research the term “executive dysfunction” because that’s essentially what ADHD is in a nutshell due to chemical imbalances in our brains. Lastly, (finally!) I want to just remind people to be patient with those with ADHD. I promise you, we do not want to have it most of the time-except for when it actually benefits us, such as with creativity and thinking outside the box! It is so much harder than most people think, and can be extremely detrimental to our mental health and wellness when we just feel like we can’t get anything right :/. I’m not sure many can top losing their keys, wallet, and phone all in one day, and also doing things constantly like being distracted and accidentally running a RED LIGHT one time (thank GOD i was okay-I forgot to take my meds and have been good about them since that time-they help me so freaking much). But with this said, don’t feel sorry for us, we can do it, we just may need a little extra push-whether that be reminding us about an important appointment, or telling us to pack our bag and put it near the door so it will be easier to be on time for work. Little things like that are so beneficial, because unlike narcs, we desperately WANT to improve and they don’t. Narcs also don’t have a chemical imbalance that causes these symptoms, it’s just called being an asshole and not having emotional maturity. 🙃 thanks for listening to my TED talk!
The RUclips channel ''How to ADHD'' is amazing!! You did a great job explaining what she talks about. It's one of, if not the only, channel I consistently watch to center myself when feeling like the neurotypical world is too much! I've sent multiple videos to family members in hopes that they would understand when I do certain things like; interrupting in a conversation, not showing up on time or forgetting important dates, that I don't maliciously do these things. I've just recently been diagnosed as a 24 year old woman. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression before (which is unfortunately common for women I guess, great! lol). I thought I was just a bad person/not meant to live in such a world that was so exhausting. I would want to do all the things and look at everyone else doing all the things so effortlessly (to a certain extent obviously) and just thought I was dumb/had a quirky personality. But once I figured out the extent to which ADHD affects one's day to day life I was beyond amazed at how this disability is soooo poorly understood!! Another place to get more information about ADHD is Russell Barkley's videos about childhood ADHD on RUclips. I 17264749380% recommend! The specific video I watched he speaks to parents with children who have ADHD and explains why it's considered a disorder... reassuring them it's not ''bad parenting'' and that children with ADHD shouldn't be given less work/deadlines as accommodations, if anything they should have more little deadlines in between when the work is due because they'll forget/leave it to the last minute because of the lack of dopamine ''motivational hormone''. Idefinition hyperfocusing eferring
I actually never thought I had adhd until I got really depressed and told my best friend that I think something is wrong with me. She sent me so many relatable things that I never realized were part of it. All my car wrecks, really struggling with being on time, etc. I was confused for a long time because I can hyperfocus. Like you said on what I find interesting. Like staying up until 3 am when Im interested in something even though I have to get up at 6am. The time just flies by and I don't even realize. Then I get little sleep and my focus just ends up getting worse. Then I feel shitty. For instance I've been hungry for about 4 hours but I keep watching RUclips videos. I've never been evaluated for ADHD but have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression. I'm about to start antidepressants so I'm going to try really pay attention to if it helps my focusing issues. Since it would be helping my brain create dopamine. I'll see how it goes and if it's still bad I will need to possibly get help for adhd. I'm also healing from narc abuse but looking back my ADHD patterns have always been there even before but the stress of that has definitely made it worse. I started this with wanting to ask you a question but I don't even remember what it was. Lol. Oh I guess do u think antidepressants would help with add symptoms?
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well-written comment, Mackenzie! It’s the most relatable one I’ve read here. ❤️ (And I agree that Jessica is awesome!) I’d also like to add that-like narcissists, unfortunately-many people with ADHD struggle with emotional (dys)regulation. I was diagnosed in my early 50s, and I *know* I’ve overreacted to all kinds of things countless times throughout my life and behaved inappropriately because of that…but also felt intensely remorseful because of it, and-more importantly-bent over backwards making amends to people I’ve hurt. (It’s pretty easy for me to *get* when that’s the case because my-wait for it-empathy kicks in.) While I appreciate Dr Ramani’s videos and have experienced narcissistic mistreatment many times, I’ve also done the hard work of reflecting on whether I am a narcissist myself, so I would like to hear her acknowledge that s*itty behaviour isn’t only a narc symptom and isn’t always intentional.
@@SeasideLili u made a good point, i have ADHD and actually questioned myself many times am i a narcissist! Because of my outrage bursts once my Ptcd gets triggered ( Anxious attachment), i took many narcissism online tests just to get an insight though results will come up every time as Empath and 0 narcissism, and i really do regret my rage burts and apologies and try my best to react differently if triggered. ADHD is different than Narcissism in it's Core,
i got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 35 years old. I'm 38 now and I've been able (with help of medication and therapy) to make more positive changes in my life then ever before. I've stopped smoking, stopped binge drinking, I can hold down a job and I've left an abusive relationship!
I’ve went to alcoholism to deal with this crap! Never defended myself cuz I made so many mistakes as a drunk. I was set free from it and now my narcissist is realizing how on point i am. We almost argue more cuz I don’t put up with his shit! But one thing i will say, i now shut him down! Cuz i point out facts. He points out by victimizing himself. Which i then point out. It’s GREAT!!!
I was recently diagnosed with inattentive type ADHD at 48 and also suffer ongoing PTSD from years of abuse from my narc father. It is impossible to draw a line through the blurry whorl of inattention, memory issues, disassociation, chronic anxiety and emotional dysregulation and say ok, this part is ADHD, and this part is PTSD. I wonder now if my ADHD made me prime scapegoat material, being even more contempt worthy in my fathers eyes and easily manipulable with my frantic people pleasing. So interesting. Thanks Dr Ramani.
Love this series Dr.ramani..in my fb support group I send everyone this way. Your wisdom and insight in narcissism has given me great healing and you explain it so easily. Thank you for help in my recovery
This is interesting…. I have ADHD and this makes my days hard very often. Its like you have to help yourself slot to not forget something, even if it’s important to you. But I am very detailed in what I do. Its not that I cant pay attention to detail but that I sometimes struggle to pay attention to what I need to do because other things pop up in my head even though I don’t want them there. So I have to pull myself back to what I am doing constantly and fight those other thoughts out, wich is exhausting. I also pick up on things around me others don’t seam to notice, wich can be distracting. But unlike a narcissist I am very empathic and way too people pleasing, wich can make my ADHD symptoms and struggles even worth. So if I know someone is not feeling good, this is a hard distraction to fight away so I can function in my daily life. I have met quite a few people with ADHD and found them to be very caring and empathic. They struggle even to ask for help they need to be able to concentrate or function better. We fail at things that are important to us constantly and again and again, and we always feel bad about it, try to get our act together snd do better but are set up to fail soon again. But if we don’t work on it daily, we can’t function at all. So sometimes it seems harsh when we are obsessed with our calendar or with certain routines from the outside, but it is the only way we can function and not constantly disappoint others around us or ourselves. But unlike a Narcissist we, if not narcissistic on top of the ADHD, are very caring and feel deeply. And we work on ourselves a lot, even if the results are inconsistent.
Thank you Dr Ramani for all your videos, and a very special thanks for this. I've asked for it, and it clarifies so much for me. You have given me new knowledge and hope during a very difficult period in my life. ❤
I am working with a large family. Many of them are in fact narcissistic. I appreciate your channel so much. Thank you It has helped. A victim was being identified aggressively at the narc. Your information really helped her .
I've always considered the possibility that I may have some form of add. I never once brought it up at doctors clinics, as mom would say, you're not supposed to accept negative things as being truth. Felt discouraged to not research more on this subject, early on. Always had difficulties in school with subjects that I had no interest in, but excelled in English class, music, with reading books. Same thing with places of employment, I excelled where I was happy, and not self conscious about what I was doing. Since childhood, I've had the unfortunate habit of interrupting others who are speaking, only to feel guilty about it afterwards, as though I'll forget what I was thinking of. I'd like to become the great listener that I'm capable of being, make it habit to be sure the person is finished speaking, before my turn. What a frustrating habit it is, because others have often felt comfortable with opening up and trusting me.
I find Dr. Ramani's content to be extraordinarily relevant with a flair for going straight to the heart of the matter. This video is a perfect example. Who else is addressing this topic with such precision and insight? I mean, the similarities and overlapping characteristics of narcissism and ADHD are not widely discussed, but should be! This is actually a question I've had for a long time and Dr. R. answered it beautifully. I saw the contemptuousness but didn't realize that was a primary key to knowing the difference between the two disorders. Thanks!! Very helpful!
Wow, I learned that I know absolutely nothing about this! Thanks for making it digestible. Query: Could hypervigilance as a child exhaust a person to the point of habitual inattention due to sheer exhaustion as a child into adulthood? Thank you for your life saving work.
Good question. I was raised with my dad and what I am self diagnosing a Conversationalist narc, and I learned how to talk from him. My mom also talks allot due to not being validated by my dad. Love your question.
I really appreciated listening to what you had to say in this video, Dr. Ramani. Better understanding the relationship and differences between narcissism and adhd is helping quell my worries that I don't feel bad "enough" about the challenges that come with adhd. My mom's ex-husband was a narc and my parents haven't always believed that neurological and mental health conditions mattered, so I wasn't diagnosed until I was around 24, struggling to finish undergrad. I think my behaviour was very triggering for her so she "treated me like an adult" and attempted to "set boundaries" with me the way she might, were I an adult. Lately I've been caught between feeling, "hey, I turned out pretty well all things considered," and, "but what if I've tricked myself into thinking I'm not a narcissist." The examples you gave really helped me figure out just how silly that second one is, so thank you!
I have ADHD, yet I realized I do not retain memories of interactions and experiences I’ve gone through for decades. My friend, who I’ve shared with for decades, recalls numerous experiences I told them about, that I’ve “lost”. I think my Bandwidth has been overloaded since connecting with my partner, then raising kids.
I have had to learn the difference between my husbands behavior from his ADHD and his narcissistic ways. He actually hates having ADHD cus its makes him or people look at him "different" but he loves how smart he is and will rub it your face. But I know he is narcissistic from the lies and the rules for everyone else but non for him. He will use his ADHD to get the upper hand in an argument tho. I see the ADHD with every day things like time managment and the way his brain solves things or he gets side tracked easily or when he explains what images are in his head when someone explains something. But he has a nasty streak and he is very selfish. If he doesnt get his way or if you dont see things the way he does he is like a angry tasmania devil which I know people with ADHD can be like but his is more then anger cus its comes from not having his control, which then he will lie, manipulate and gaslight.
This is my dad. He doesn't mean to but will very much make no apology or effort to try meet deadlines or follow through on promises. He doesn't have the language of ADHD but is very selfish. Stems from his own truma and lack of cognitive ability. Just really hard.
It can be difficult to discern because you don’t want to pathologist someone, but what Dr Ramani mentions about the contemptuous overlap really plays a huge role. I have friends with ADHD who are very humble and apologetic when they lose focus. Completely different when someone had an overlap with narcissism in how it presents. I know someone with ADHD and overlapping narcissism and he is contemptuous when anything is pointed out to him about his behavior even in a very mindful way. Working with my individual therapist and the materials he provides, and watching Dr Ramani’s videos have been really eye opening. All these rules and schedules I have to adhere to in addition to being patient and mindful, yet he can snap at a drop of a dime and I am on eggshells as a result. He’s allowed to say whatever he wants but if I challenge him he will “table it” conveniently or blame shift. We can’t enable or normalize these behaviors in other do to their adhd. Dr Ramani’s video on OCPD was also helpful because the irony is the person I know began developing some of those traits as well. It’s so uncomfortable and depressing when you’re on the receiving end of that. Against Dr Ramani’s advice not to call out a narcissist, I did speak on it because I refuse to continue minimizing myself. I also have to lay down what my Non-negotiables are. I hope that you can nurture yourself and tend to yourself so you can find some semblance of peace in your situation.
@Sway Tha Mystic I ask myself that aswell now that I know more about narcissist and gaslighting. But its hard with kids and not alot of support, which I know see was done over time for control.
I honestly cannot even begin to let you know just how helpful this has been for me, I feel like I now have the words to say to the Doctor to explain things I’ve never been capable of explaining myself ... I’ve never been able to formulate the scenarios I have witnessed with my son from his ADHD diagnosis at age 6. He’s 21 now & it’s difficult because our nearest place that even ‘tests’ ADHD is over a hundred miles away and the waiting lists are as long as your arm ! But seriously that’s the most on point advice I’ve ever received And You’ve confirmed in my mind that at least he isn’t a narcissist XxxX
![ADHD or Quiet Borderline Personality Disorder? [Overlap & Differences]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/N47STB-ufOE/mqdefault.jpg)
My therapist told me that people with ADHD are especially susceptible to gaslighting because you're already forgetful, so you trust the gaslighting more easily
THIS............
@@beyourself9162 adhd is not on the autism spectrum. that's not what spectrum means. they are separate conditions about how the brain is wired and one can have both ASD and ADHD. it's also not true that they "never forget". everybody forgets. especially traumas are even easier to forget, as a coping mechanism. having adhd doesn't make you immune to that. unfortunately.
@@beyourself9162 sorry but if that's the case, then the two psychiatrists you mentioned are just wrong. I'd rather research it from scientific resources, autistics themselves and my own experience rather than talking to some random doctors who may or may not have correct and up-to-date information about the subject. You can go and read the DSM-5 for yourself too and see that they are clearly two separate conditions. You don't need to be a psychiatrist for that. I have indeed seen discussions and some old articles around ADHD being related to ASD, and it makes sense that some people have looked into it since they have slight similarities here and there but they definitely are separate conditions and there is no credible scientific research that says they are related. And just think about it please: If ADHD was just a form of ASD then how come people get diagnosed with both?
@@beyourself9162 I wrote what I wrote for other people to read, to correct the obviously false information that you provided. I have no interest in engaging in an endless debate with some internet stranger, revolving around the same passive-aggressive responses. To anyone else reading this: ADHD is not "part of the autism spectrum", that doesn't even make sense and is not backed by any science. Please do your own research and get the facts rather than trusting random people in RUclips comments, including me.
@@beyourself9162 ADHD and Autism are both part of Neurodiversity. They are related in a way since the traits for both overlap in some areas, but ADHD isn't part of the Autistic spectrum. They are still two distinct things.
As a person with ADHD I want to add that when we “aren’t listening” it’s not a choice. Sometimes we start zoning out or thinking about other things that that person made us think of. Or there was something in the room that caught our attention. And when we interrupt it is generally cause we don’t realize we are. And we have a lot to say and we are just really excited to share them. People with ADHD can also come across like we don’t care about things like important dates like birthdays and anniversaries. But we actually do care but we have a hard time thinking far into the future because we have to think about getting through one day at a time and then we don’t realize these important dates are coming up.
Agree
I stopped reading comment half way because it’s too long. I think I have adhd too
And if we appear to be not listening, we likely still are.
When someone demands eye contact and sitting still, that's often when we mentally drift off.
This is true for me, too. I have ADHD myself. I get abused by my toxic mother missing things she said, even though it was just an accident.
@@joshpoi886 I literally read the first line and then was like mmm... okay any more and I am using too much brain power.
In my experience as a nurse, I've found that watching their speech helps me sort them out. An ADHD patient will never be as rude or belittling as the narcissist.
So true!!!!
They've usually been belittled so many times that they would never belittle someone else.
@@dottyjyoung I have ADHD and I agree.
It’s so crazy how fast I can spot narcissists now. I work as a waitress and today this man came in and immediately said a rude comment about being at a table for 6 with just 2, the host explained the rest of the tables being reserved in an hour and this one isn’t reserved until later on in the night. He immediately made snide comments about how “the restaurant must be so well off that it is completely booked in an hour” and before this the first comment he made to his wife was “this is already bad” this was like a 70+ year old man and his wife. I felt so bad for her. I kept over hearing him laugh at his wife in contempt over the simplest things. Most of our best entrees are 18+ and he laughed at his wife saying I can’t believe you would want that and was just being so prideful and rude. It was so clear to me, it’s like it gets worse and more prominent with age, the narcissistic programming becomes a greater percentage of their personality the longer they are unconscious of it. I have really been convinced that it’s the same demonic spirit operating out of all of them. I’m so grateful my eyes have been opened
💯%
@@haleycrowe0 it definitely gets worse with age! My dad is one, he’s always tried to live through us, used us as props, and was very belittling. He’s so judgmental and rude. He’s SO nasty to people for no reason, they obviously react, and then he explodes. He’s incredibly combative, he cussed out a door to door salesman the other day (who was a very nice COLLEGE KID btw) instead of just not answering the door like a normal person. My mom was saying how he wasn’t always like this. Yes he absolutely was and she made excuses for his behavior all the time (“you’re just sensitive, he didn’t mean it like that.”) but it’s gotten worse as he’s aged, and because she has to spend more time with him now WFH she’s noticing it’s horrendous. NOW it’s a problem because she can’t just escape to the office 😑. He’s always been insufferable, but now its x1,000.
Hyperactivity can also be hyperactivity of the mind. This is commonly a reason girls and women are under diagnosed.
Exactly. Fidgety and hyperactive are different words for that reason, but some people don't want to deal in specifics.
As a child in 60s my mother latched onto the new term calling me hyper....hyperactive. I eventually realized that since her royal narcnness lived on Valium, my brightness as a kid went too fast for her. I completed tasks fast, but throughly. I needed more challenges. Mom is 90 now...occasionally she introduces me as her hyper daughter...? Yes me with the PhD. Schools never mentioned any issues with my attention.
And the perceived lack of focus is really because we focus on EVERYTHING.
Yes. Overthinking things in a hyper never ending way.
YES! This was such a revelation to me. I would never call myself hyperactive, but there is always a party going on in my head. When I went in to be assessed I thought I had some mild inattentive symptoms, and I came out with a diagnosis of severe ADHD-HI. I was STUNNED. As a culture we have failed girls and women.
NPD: I can't sit here and listen to you talk, I have an illness!
ADHD *quitely in own head*: listen listen listen listen, pay attention, please pay attention, oh God what did she say, why can't you pay attention you IDIOT
ADHD *outwardly": smile and nod
Is this inattentive ? I have “mixed” but I think I struggle most with H-I, and when I read comments like this depicting adhd I’m like... I don’t ever feel that way. I often wonder just how different the two types are. We def need more conversations about our struggles! 😊
@@-Brit-Brat- A great line I've heard is that "if you've seen 1 person with adhd then you've ... seen 1 person with adhd!" because of how it presents so differently in different people. adhd brains are measurably different from 'typical' brains in scans but the way we mask, compensate and express ourselves will always be different. Not to say we can't learn from and support eachother. It's useful for me to understand facets and how they affect me or not so much. Like, I feel Rejection Sensitivity acutely .. I rarely have insomnia issues.. I'm not physically hyperactive but mentally my brain never stops moving! etc etc.
💯
Always answer with “Yes!”
my narc self-diagnosed themselves/ pretended to have ADHD to gain attention, and to excuse their contemptuous behavior. After a year of publicly talking about the trials and tribulations of having ADHD ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA (again to gain attention and sympathy from people) they finally went to a professional and were told they didn't have it. After that my narc stopped talking about ADHD on their social media bc they were proven to be a huge phony :D
The difference between narcissists and AD(H)D-people, is that narcissists don't know who they are, but they know exactly where they want to be, whereas AD(H)D-people know exactly who they are, but have no idea of where they belong.
Love this!
Yes..I am there as a highly creative ADHD SENIOR...at 62 being subjected to a 69 year old NARCISSISTIC MAN WITH ADHD..it is no wonder I revisited SUICIDE recently. There is no answers anymore.
@@artskiwendy please tell me that you are getting help
@@artskiwendy I wish you the best and I hope you can live your best life
@@artskiwendy There's always answers ... AD(H)D-people are like magnets for narcissists, and it took me half a life to figure out why these a**holes kept popping up in my life and what to do about it.
Yes, after being mistreated by a narcissist and left by the side of the road, you may feel like an absolute loser, and it feels like your darkest hour ... Remember you have a special talent that they are jealous of, and realize this talent is the very key to find your way up again.
Thanks to you, I’ve learned what I’ve survived through all these 35 years - and today, my 57th birthday, I’m packing the last box for my big move! Happy birthday TO ME!
Bonne fête from French Canada 🇨🇦! Way to go sugar, I'm 59 and you are marvellous darling, leave him behind with all your other unwanted junk!
HAPPY RE-BIRTH DAY BIRTHDAY 🥳
Today is the first day of the rest of your wonderful life you're about to create.
Congratulations on putting you first, and finding the strength to leave your abuser.
So proud of you!
I hope you have the most amazing time getting to know yourself again, and healing.
You are enough!
You are worthy!
You deserve to love, and be loved!
Wishing you so much love, light, and laughter.
Many blessings x
Stay strong, you may face challenges but able to solve yourself.
happy birthday!
may you find joy and peace
Congrats and Happy Birthday!
-watches video on narcissism and adhd.
-rewinds video 10x on the same part bc I keep thinking about the ways I’ve been manipulated by narcissists instead of listening to the video 😂😅😢
Yup 😂😂😂😂
Can you please do one on Narcissism vs Aspergers?
I’m so glad that you brought this up. I’m interested in hearing her thoughts on this.
This is a minefield. Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is so misunderstood. By the way, in the U.S., they removed the Asperger's diagnosis and call everything ASD now.
I had a client recently who displayed very clear symptoms of Aspergers or Autism, and it was a very awkward interaction. Completely different type of personality and presence than a narcissist.
I actually think it's a good idea, but I don't think many people could talk about the subject without bringing up wrong stereotypes about people with autism.
Please please, do this! With autism on the rise, seeing where it overlaps narcissism can seem impossible when autistic folks try to act as "normal." This separation needs to be elucidated.
I also feel that the struggles a person with ADHD go through make us more susceptible to a narcissist. We all ready have poor self assessment and low self-esteem at times. And we ADHDers have a drive to be better, do better, improve, people please what have you. Trust me when I say, when the narcissist pics up on this they lock in and your done. I have had experience with several narcissists in my life time. And it's so bad. For decades I have judged myself in a terrible way thinking I'm useless or some how "broken" but I'm not. I need to manage my symptoms rather than viewing them as flaws. I also have decided to let go of anyone who prefers the broken version of me. I want to heal and thrive and if they aren't on board with that than I don't need them in my life. I have so much more to say on this topic. But I don't want to write a novel at the moment. I am just thankful for this channel. I have been effected by a couple of narcs and I was in a severe depression that lasted about 6 months. This channel helped me put things in perspective and set better boundaries so I could heal. I am forever grateful!
Very similar with me
You said you had a lot more to say on this topic. Please do I would love to read more. I “had” a narc mother and have adhd. I can definitely relate to everything you said.
Hell yes! I've been on a very similar journey to understanding my ADHD and healing from years of narcissistic abuse. You explained our collective struggles so clearly when the situation used to feel impossible to understand, let alone explain to folks outside of the relationship. I'm so glad you were able to regain your sense of self and break free from that pattern 💚
ADHD is an explanation and not an excuse. As someone who has ADHD and has experienced narcissistic abuse I used to be super sympathetic towards my narcissistic ex when they displayed behaviours similar to the things I was struggling with because of my ADHD. Like being forgetful or emotionally disregulated or having anger issues. But after a while I realizes that the difference between me and him was that every time I had one of those behaviors I would try my best to do better but he wouldn't he acted like I owed him sympathy and understanding every time without him ever trying to be better. Back then I didn't know my behaviors were because of ADHD and his was narcissistic, so it took me a while to realize that just because somebody seems to have similar issues to mine it doesn't mean their motivations and how they choose to view and deal with those issues will be the same.
I chose to discover the source of my issues and deal with them and I learned I'm responsible for myself. That's something narcissists don't even think about doing.
Of course there can be people who have ADHD and are narcissistic or even have BPD. I think they would use their ADHD as an excuse for bad behavior.
Girl I experienced the EXACT SAME THING. I have ADHD and I dated a narcissist. My mum is a narcissist with ADHD. I try my best but it's never good enough for people. Thank you so much for your comment, I feel so validated and less alone now❤️🩹💫🌎
@@ais3195 I read recently that people with ADHD tend to attract narcissists... I have ADHD, and I have attracted SO MANY of them over my lifetime, and apparently it's a very common thing, because ADHD tends to cause low self-esteem, which makes us prime targets for narcissists. You even said you try your best and it's not good enough for people... that's classic ADHD low self-esteem talking. And it's only not good enough for the narcissistic people in your life, and nothing will ever be good enough for them. And it's a double whammy, I think, because when you grow up with ADHD, you get criticized and reprimanded more, and you definitely internalize that, and blame yourself for everything... so then a narcissist comes along, and also blames you for everything, and you just accept it. Someone who isn't already riddled with self-blame probably wouldn't just accept it that easily. I think those of us with ADHD especially need to be aware of the red flags, for that reason.
@@ais3195 I’m dealing with a similar situation. I haven’t got formally diagnosed with ADHD/Autism yet, but my doctor said it’s very likely I at least have ADHD. I find myself wondering, “maybe I was just being difficult; maybe I was the problem.”
How do you guys navigate those doubts, especially when your trying to dealing with things that happened to you as a kid?
@@DoriGaga thank you. I was diagnosed at the age of 59but didn't believe it until 2 years later .you just explained something to me
You nailed it. I used to have a lot of guilt and shame for past narcissistic relationships wondering why I let them treat me like that. But You are 100% correct that it was adhd symptoms and empathy. I would forget all the wrongdoings and had to start writing down lists and referring to them to remember why I’m upset with them. It was hard but my empathy and lack of judgement is why I chose to be single. Another major point. Adhd does not improve with age, and it doesn’t stop bc of medication. I wish my insurance would understand adults and adhd is just as normal as anxiety or depression.
I have adhd and we constantly feel sorry and ashamed and are often really empathatic and loving people, because we know what it feels like to fail.
And I actually think that ee are more vulnerable to narcissts because of all the rejection we receive especially as children. And we stay longer because we are so used to get put down by close family and teachers...
Yes yes yes i feel you
Thanks! That comment about low self esteem and add made so much sense! I really appreciate the distinctions between ADD and narcissism- Thank you again!
Your comment resonates with me.
Is it just me or should the norm be, when someone you meet tells you they have ADHD (not just a little bit of it), the reaction should be an instant hug and a whisper of "I'm sorry, me too."
@@mrnobody2873 yes! And I actually think with increasing knowledge about neurodivergence it happens more and more that adhd- and other neurodivergent brains find each other and offer each other emapthy and comfort without judgement. :) something a narcissistic person would never do without conditions or devaluing afterwards.
*This is something I've always wondered about because I have friends with ADHD and they get called narcissistic a lot. I love this content thank you Ramani*
the narc we know is the one that needs ritilin
Yes, people confuse it very often because we can come up as rude because of our impulsivity even if that wasn't our intention at all. That's the huge difference between ADHD and narcissism. Someone with ADHD because of his impulsivity will interrupt you, ignore you, and say brutally honest things to you without realizing he's doing those things and will feel bad and often apologize when he does realize he was rude. A narc does it knowing perfectly well what he was doing and just doesn't care about your feelings.
@@susannakotoff7095 a narc on Ritalin? Paranoid!!!
Sounds like a lot of your friends probably are narc's. My sister is a narc that "claims" to have ADHD and was never formally diagnosed, doesn't show any of the symptoms in the videos and is completely organized and calculated and goes out of her way to "pretend" she has ADHD. I would be careful especially if they use it as an excuse constantly for bad behavior and never take responsibility. It's actually one of the easy-outs for narcissists, to continually abuse you and then play the victim every time you call them out. I would be really careful especially with adults "claim" they have ADHD and don't take any medication, never went to treatment, and live in a complete delusional reality. The thing is I have ADHD friends and they are super cool, but I'm extremely weary of anybody that uses it as an excuse especially when they do things that are pretty messed up. My ADHD friends almost NEVER ignore me, interrupt me, without immediately being like "oh my bad." A narc will keep doing it and pushing boundaries and gaslighting (ignoring) and if any criticism comes their way it's immediately "it's my adhd" when in reality it's their narcissism.
Thank you so much. I have ADHD and with the general public being more aware of narcs, people who have ADHD are actually suffering a LOT. Looking at narcissism and ADHD just how they affect the people around them looks almost exactly the same, except the person with ADHD is stressed out by their affect on people. It doesn't matter why we forget things, we forget everything. I had to look at my birth certificate for my middle names one time. I am not forgetting my appointment because I hate you, I just don't remember things, even things I like or need!
I have to tell people, that I have a hard time understanding spoken instructions, please text it, and they do not care. They think I'm a narcissist trying to make them bend to my needs. I'm just being neurodivergent trying to come to a middle ground on communication.
I'm the same, always forgetful and can't process verbal instructions, has to be visual. I just bought a planner from Agendio.com, they let you customize literally every aspect of it so it fits your needs, perfect for our ADHD brains! Can't wait, I feel like that's going to help me stay organized and remember everything if I can write it down soon as I think of it and it will all be in one place. Good luck!
Difficulty with auditory processing is common in people with adhd.
I think in part bc you have no "proof" about what was said.
Written information is much more objective.
I've asked for people to text bc then if I question what I think I can go back and verify..
And of course pretty much every one I know with adhd have huge self esteem issues bc they have spent a life time being told something is wrong with them..
So I have a hard time seeing how someone can be both a narcissist AND have adhd.
I CAN see a narcissist maybe using adhd as a vehicle to get drugs. Or an "excuse"
But by virtue of being a narcissist I have a hard time with seeing a narcissist saying they "have a problem"
@@annemiller8227 I know at least 2 ppl with both ADHD and narcissist behavior patterns. One is my ex husband, the other is my friend's ex wife. Both had traumatic childhoods, both went undiagnosed for ADHD their whole life, both in denial about there being anything "wrong" with them, both had parents who were narcs as well.
My ex is a covert narc, so he constantly tried to get empathy from those around him by always being the victim. He had terrible self esteem, and he tried to make himself feel better by projecting his flaws onto other people, me being one of them. Then he would build himself up by saying how smart he was cuz he was in the gifted program as a kid, or that he was an empath and could feel others emotions. There's a lot of overlap of behavior with ADHD and narcissism, so it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins like she said in the video, but I can almost see where having ADHD could make you more prone to be a narcissist.
Still working on that theory, but what led me to it is our son. He's almost 12, and has ADHD. He has a hard time with perspective taking which is common for people with ADHD. A few things he has said to me in the past: "my sister should know when I'm getting angry, and she should stop messing with me or else she deserves to get hit" putting the responsibility of his actions on somebody else. He doesn't understand why his actions or way of doing things would be cringeworthy to other kids, so when they tease him, he takes it personally and says they are bullying him, which leads to victim complex and depression.
Thank God I found The ADHD Dude on RUclips and my son's future looks brighter than my ex. Otherwise, I can 100% see how my son would develop the same narcissistic patterns.
@@valeriekoelling885 I'm very sorry you went through that. I was married to a covert narcissist. I even wondered if he had ADHD.
When I wrote the post I was sure someone would likely reply bc (IMHO) there's no such thing as "always" and "never".
Life is full of outliers.
Having ADHD AND empathy makes me feel like wincing any time I have caused anyone pain even accidentally.
Other people with ADHD ( and not a narcissist) usually report the same (best of my knowledge)
I also was talking about the irony of a narcissist claiming ADHD bc by virtue of being a narcissist they usually don't! "accept" something is wrong with them.
I will say that it's getting harder and harder to remember exactly what it's like to be with a narcissist.
I dropped mine years ago. He has never paid child support which has it's own silver lining. Hes had little interest in his kids over the years which has been it's own kind of blessing. It means we have nothing to talk about.
Again you have my deepest sympathy for having to deal with even ONE narcissist. ADHD is it's own Gordian knot. I hope your son is able to evade his father's characteristics.
Also you might want to check out the RUclips channel "How to ADHD".
I will be checking out the one you mentioned but I stumbled across this a few months ago and was VERY impressed.
Keep your chin up.
Reach out again if you are feeling like it's pulling you under...
You are braver and stronger than you know or else you would have broken already
to be an ADHD child being raised by 2 narcissists was a lower level of hell.
being physically restrained to sit still in addition to the constant shaming because I couldn't be quite and struggled in school.
add father's alcoholism into the mix.
I didn't realize I had ADHD until I was an adult, working as a counselor at a youth facility; what was common knowledge to those who observed me was new to me! ; )~
Strattera works really well for me and I don't have to take it every day, just when I need to really focus.
I've found it also can reduce PTSD symptoms, probably because I don't feel that everything is hitting at once, which can cause a trapped and subsequent panicky feeling.
I would love to have the opportunity to attend one of your seminars on ADHD; I hope those who have greater access to you appreciate the blessing they are given.
I thank you for what you share here; you have helped me and so many others!
Similar experience here. Was always called lazy and berated for having my head up my ass, my head being a sieve, not living up to potential by my Nparent. As an adult it turns out I have primarily inattentive adhd. I’m on a high dose of strattera and it’s not quite doing the trick. Adderall helps but I know it’s a stimulant. Trying to avoid.
I hear you...I also have narcissistic parents but reverse of a typical American family. Mom, raised in occupied Rhineland in a "Jew Free" Germanic town, was your typical (psychopath) narcissist. Dad, a poor Scotts-Irish American raised during the Great Depression, was covert. He never even knew while growing up that his alcoholic father lived seven blocks away. Lived with his severely abusive step father. I don't know about his step father, or his sister or brother, but he worked with his mother in the cotton mills for support. The kids never finished elementary school. So dad was absent, drinking, or just zoned out on his own self pity. Mom used me for emotional support, all the while telling me how clumsy, awkward, big, fat, and stupid I was. My kindergarten teacher wanted to hold me back. "OMG, Paula's failed kindergarten!!!" Mom told me the kids would make fun of me (while doing so herself) and that I would be a "big, dumb, Baby Huey!" And how she wasn't going to let that happen (savior, of her own ego, at least). A couple of weeks later she said, "Don't worry, you will get to go to school like other kids (I didn't even really know what "school" was), THE NUNS SAID THEY WOULD TAKE YOU." Great. I felt like someone just found me an orphanage. Well, when I got out of my seat a few times, my first grade nun tied me to my desk/chair with jump ropes every day. They pulled ears, pinched cheeks, lips (if you spoke) arms, tummys. They smacked you with yard sticks, pointers, and erasers, and smacked your hands and fingers hard with rulers. And I'm expected to pass??? No such luck. Teachers used to say, "Paula is smart but doesn't apply herself." I stopped giving mom notices of parent-teacher days. I am smart and I can pass, but I need help (due to 12 years that I missed out) and I need to constantly study until I know material by heart. I get severe test anxiety. And I really think that's a large part of it. My mom would scream at me constantly if I didn't just "get" something on the first try. I blame teachers too. They don't help, only make life in hell much worse!
Omg so many kids these days locked up inside, having little freedom is it a wonder they let loose at school seeking some sort of normalcy, fun and being accepted for who they are? Rambuctious, needing exercise and a little unscheduled activity!
@@pauladuncanadams1750 God love you; I am so sorry you had to go through all that!
it's difficult to rewrite the script in our heads, but it can be done!
there are some wonderful subliminal affirmations here in yt that you can listen to while you sleep (can post a link, if you like and if Dr. Ramani wouldn't mind) that help me.
it took me a very long time to work on issues of faith because of the hypocrisy I saw, but that helps me, too.
I could very much understand how you would have an aversion to issues of belief.
how can those who claim to be of God hurt children?
I believe in you and more importantly, you believe in you!
peace be unto you
@@kimmariebimmarie strong black coffee also helps me and one Monster zero a day, but I also understand that some people have issues with caffeine.
if I wake up during the night and can't go back to sleep, I can drink half a pot of dark roast and then sleep soundly!
my youngest son (he's now 22) has ADHD inattentive and it can be a challenge to help keep him on task, especially with putting things away and completing tasks.
he refuses to try medication and it has and is causing him issues.
sometimes a person has to have the consequences of choices so something like ADHD doesn't become an excuse, referring solely to my son.
I bid you peace
I have ADD, and I feel awful about how I don't always listen, forget things/get sidetracked, and demand an organized, clutter free environment. I question myself a lot because... well it's the same stuff a narcissist would do.
But I'm truly sorry when I tell my child I will listen to their song and get sidetracked... and try to make it up to them. And really listen when they want to be heard. I'm about to break it off with my husband because simply creating a clean space and life where I am functioning at my best has been a journey of anxiety, tears and gaslighting.
I realized that he is the narcissistic one. I think just questioning if your needs are narcissistic... is a pretty good sign you're probably not!
If you sincerely apologize, regularly feel remorse , humility and can actually have a good cry about something and enjoy the crying cause it feels healing and truthful then id say your not narcissistic but if being humble and the word humility doesnt ever come to mind it could be that both of you are , i used to be one and im with an extreme covert and see some of my old bad habits sometimes leaking into my brain like the parasite it is , most likely you just being here and if your truly trying to heal then you arent one , but remember we all come from the same source , so the same evil thats in them dwells within us as well and thats definitely one of the scariest parts about being around them for long periods of time is like osmosis it starts to seep in , hold yohr light 11 lead us through each step by step by inch by loaded memory . One and one are one so eleven glow grow child im heading back home !
This is kind of how my family has been with me. It's harder to leave when they try to deny boundaries for health issues and attention span, then try to force your organization habits their way. Even sometimes in your own space.
Only recently got better a little because the sibling who would really start arguments and blame others had left.
My husband *exploited* my ADHD for over a decade. It's a very painful realization...
I accepted blame for things that were not solely my fault...he used my issues to hide his own!! When he left, I was forced to clean out cupboards, closets, the garage, the yard all by myself. It took well over a year (I'm still processing some of it 3 years later!) but I sure learned a LOT about him by going through that decluttering process alone! He was NOT who he claimed to be!
He was a total hoarder!
But he managed to hide it by "cleaning" (stuffing!!) and making the house and yard LOOK nice. He always called me the hoarder and always claimed to be the ultra organized one. LOL now I know the truth. I SAW and felt his hoarded garbage with my own eyes and hands as I threw it all away!!!
Sadly, many of my personal items (including photos, childhood trinkets, special items etc) had been ruined, crushed and broken by his stuffing...
Now, without him, everything has a place and I'm relatively organized. I still struggle with the executive function and motivational aspects of putting things away, but I'm finding ways that help motivate me like listening to certain music and putting aside whole days to dedicate to tidying up, instead of trying to do too much in short timeframes. That seems to be working for me.
I understand completely. Your not a Narc! They are inherently evil creatures.
You care, and feel quilty, but should not. They would not even think about quilt what so ever.
The Dr. only was referring to a a single trait amongst many those vampires have.
I bet you even made up to your daughter ten-fold for getting distracted, too. 😃
Hi KGotshall, The hardest lifestyle for ADHDwomen is to be the parent of ADHD kids.
*Please read Thom Hartman "Attention Deficit Disorder:A Different Perspective". on his Hunters and Farmers Theory that we are Hunters in a Farmers World. This changed my life 30 years ago, and the life of my children. I am a hunter, as are my children.
*Medication is used by some of us and a game changer also, but it is the change in how we see ourselves and how we focus time and energy on our positives instead of wasting time on endlessly trying to fix the negatives that has a huge effect.
*The negatives require strategies to be put in place but they can be. Also habituation is different with us. NonADHD people take 30 days to establish a habit. With us with ADHD it's more 3 months instead of 1. However, once it's in, it stays in.
* Simple things can make life easier eg. have 10 pairs of scissors instead of 1. Have multiple combs instead of 1. Put a containter close to where people walk in or just inside the kitchen door and everyone puts their keys in when they walk in the house. Perservere for several months to set this up.
Good luck and know that you are not alone.
Thank you for making these differentiations. You hit the nail on the head. It's been my experience that people with ADHD often exhibit very apologetic highly agreeable behavior in regards to the struggles with their disorder, almost excessively so. This is particularly true in conversations and interpersonal situations. Whereas, narcs use it to justify rude and selfish behavior in a disagreeable or antagonistic fashion. Someone with just ADHD will usually recognize that certain behaviors and outcomes are due to their disorder, but they will still actively try to find ways to alleviate them and aim at self-improvement. Meanwhile, narcs usually have no interest in changing their behavioral patterns or improving their flaws (because in their mind they are flawless). I do get frustrated with people who are too keen on details, the ridiculous bureaucracies around us and the fundamental structure of our education system. There are times where that frustration is very justified within people who have ADHD. Our schooling system does need radical restructuring to account for neurodivergent individuals. Rigid detail-obsessed people do miss the forest for the trees. There are too many bureaucratic impediments in society. However, most people with ADHD recognize that's still no excuse to be unempathetic, abrasive or cruel. It's a very complicated relationship between the two disorders. However, I found that empathy, humility and introspection are defining differences between ADHD (or non-ADHD)people who don't have high amounts of narcissism and those who do have high amounts of narcissism. It should also be said that narcissists will use the flaws and struggles of an ADHD person as a means of abuse, control and manipulation. The ADHD person's weaknesses become overamplified and exaggerated. They are made to feel they can't get anything right. They are made to feel that their failures are due to their personal character alone and nothing else. They are intentionally made to feel inadequate and that they should try to do more for the narcissist. They are made to be dependent on the narcissist and are pathologized in an emotionally abusive manner. A person's ADHD symptoms become just another thing for the narcissist to use for invalidation and degradation.
People with ADHD have empathy.
Narcissists do not.
That's what it comes down to.
I know. All this nonsense, making it much more complicated than it has to be
@tanyahicks no it is complicated. Narcs have empathy but it's for themselves. It's not real empathy.
Thank you so much, I've been waiting for this one!!! I've actually seen this difference up close and personal. Once you meet someone with ADHD who isn't a narcissist, the presentation of symptoms (not listening, forgetfulness, etc.) can be quite triggering, but the lack of contemptuousness really does change how it feels. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for all that you do and the links to resources!! Learning from you over the past year has changed my life ❤
This ADD really caused me a lot of problems in school but after 19 of school I finally found out if I put a recording on 2x or more speed then I don't get distracted as often, which I think is kinda ironic!😅😂
@@LO-pf7xc that sounds narcissistic
i have my ADHD symptoms even when I'm alone and don't interact with people. I have it even when Im trying to watch stuff I enjoy. You say a word, it makes me think of something else, and then I start thinking about that thing, and not paying attention anymore. And then I gotta keep rewinding, and getting frustrated.
Thank you for this video. It has helped me put a lot of my relationships into perspective. While married to my ex for 22 years, he was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, ADHD, mood disorders, and anger issues. Both our son were diagnosed with ADHD while in kindergarten.
My oldest son (a loving, caring soul) has the inattentive part of ADHD and never tells anyone he has it or uses it as an excuse. He has an great eye for detail and is a talented artist. He is ashamed of having ADHD and goes into a shutdown mode constantly. He believes he is stupid even though he has a superior IQ.
My youngest son has the impulsivity and hyperactivity traits.He always runs his mouth, causes trouble, bullies his peers, has a very high opinion of himself, and uses and treats people very badly. He constantly lies! No one is better or smarter than him.
Now, I see how ADHD is genetic. My ex never connected or liked our oldest son and always favored our youngest son.
Now, I understand why. Our youngest son is a exact carbon copy of his father.
It breaks my heart. Thankfully, my oldest son and I are close.
This is great info. Please, please, please do a video on narcissism vs PTSD! So many people (myself included) write off narc abuse as PTSD. I would love for you to clear up the distinction between the two. BTW your videos are a godsend. Keep doing what you do, Dr. Ramani. You are such a big help to so many people!
I’m ADHD, diagnosed in January as an adult, and if anything? I spent way more time and effort trying to listen and make people comfortable than I ever realised wasn’t what everyone was doing. Both my parents are narcs and actually... my symptoms were things they picked on me about the most as a kid. Would love to hear a bit more about that side of things, selfishly 😂 but this was interesting
Omg this is so real when your narc parents are like ‘why aren’t you smart, put together etc’ and you’re just like ... I don’t know pls help
Interesting. Do you think an ADHD kid is more likely to become the scapegoat in a narcissistic family system? And I agree. I'd love to see Dr Ramani talk more about narcissistic parents and their kids.
I often forgot to bring my lunchbox home from school from ages 6-10. My narc mom would berate me for it. Telling me that if I really loved her I would be able to remember and since I couldn’t I must be a selfish person who does not care about the family. I think she refused to medicate my adhd when I was diagnosed because it would take away one of her main leverages to convince me I’m worthless.
I received my diagnosis last year after I got severely depressed due to workplace bullying by my narcissistic boss. And yes, I did A LOT for the things that people claimed that I did not. For instance, my boss said "did you not listen to my instruction?" after I came to her with a different thing than what she requested. looking back, actually i did listen to her. i didnt know what it was, so i asked "can you clarify on that?" only to be told "it's your job, you should know better". i didnt know better back then but i was consistently gaslighted by my boss AND her boss every single day during the lockdown until i started to question my reality, i felt i was going insane and that i was not worthy of existence. i lost my self worth and it was truly a dark experience.
Yes! I was thinking she was going to talk about how easy people with ADHD are to lie to! I have ADHD myself, and all my narcissistic partner had to do was say, "don't you remember, I told you that already and you agreed to it! You must've just not been paying attention again." And we get frustrated and emotional easily, so it's easy for them to push our buttons to get us to yell or cry, which of course is an automatic argument "win" for the narcissist, because they won't discuss this with us if we're going to lose control like that. And we're easier to confuse about certain things - with finances, he purposefully created this really complicated spreadsheet with all kinds of formulas that I was supposed to enter all my costs into. And if I asked him a question about money, he'd roll his eyes and tell me that if I entered things into the spreadsheet I'd know the answer and why didn't I consult it instead of asking him? All different little ways he'd take advantage of it.
Thanks for shedding light on the various distinctions :) I have ADHD, and I was worried I had NPD. But I’ve never been contemptuous about anything, I feel terrible when I can’t concentrate on what ppl are saying. And if I mention something I’ve experienced, it’s not to bring attn to myself, but to try show I understand and relate a little to what they’re talking about. Maybe there’s a better way to do that though.
I know a narcissist with adhd. She straight up told my sister and I that she isn't interested in what other people have to say because she doesn't think it's important
I know someone who has both too and they are using these lame excuses of ADHD every time they disagree with something or they are too bored to listen. They phrase it in a rude way too. It's utterly pathetic.
I was like that too, sometimes. Not because i don't care. But because I know I'm just going to forget about it.......
The thing is... I even forget about things that are important to me.
Sorry...
Odd..
We lie and feign interest you don't like us. We tell you the truth to your face and you STILL catch feelings lmao. Everyones a narc from my pov.
Hi am ADHDr here ! Routines , Mindfullness , post it notes , nature a lot of cardio , cutting back on excessive sugar and a desperate desire to want to be an example to my children that we can overcome anything with behavioral modifications and the correct adaptions .
I do think there’s a strong correlation between abused children and ADHD but there are also just legitimately those who have it
When treated you’ll find just like many on the autistic spectrum there’s a hidden super gift inside that the world could do with
Like any mental health diagnosis there’s a solution saved my life - when we have the right environment and the right tools our brains can begin to regulate - our environment , a genuine desperation to have a better lifestyle and the correct behavioral plan has saved my life .
Not sure if it’s a coincidence but my adhd symptoms also got a lot better when I left and went no contact with narcissists- it would make sense , stress doesn’t help anyone even nuerotypical people can be effected so bottom line is advocate for yourself and do what you gotta do to get better because there is help, resources and groups out there to help allow us to live our best life
Hey I was diagnosed a year ago, and I am really struggling. I didn't like taking ritalin so I stopped taking it. Do you have any more detailed tips on how to "get it together"
I was diagnosed with AD(H)D two weeks ago and come from a narcissistic family and a cult where I was "operated" by a narcissistic caregiver. I first thought my inattention was only about the narc abuse, but it didn't improve very much being one year out and then it came out.
I was so worried I was narcissistic for so long, or had antisocial traits, and it's such a relief that now that I was offered medication I _can_ listen, and I'm less impulsive and "snappy", and I can offer people more in the sense of care and understanding, and take other people's perspective. I also enjoy that I'm more "boring" and blend in more, and am overall a bit less trouble for other people.
That said, Dr. Ramani, your timing was really lucky for me. =)
Thanks so much for your wonderful content, I really appreciate you and the things you teach us.
this is what I'm trying to say. ADHD is CPTSD from the narcissistic abuser. Try going suddenly 100% no contact with the narc(and their contacts) without even letting them even know if you are alive or dead and then watch what happens to your ADHD.
I have adhd and we constantly feel sorry and ashamed and are often really empathetic and loving people, because we know what it feels like to fail. I actually think that we are more vulnerable to narcissists because of all the rejection we receive especially as children. And we stay longer because we are so used to get put down by close family and teachers...
have you wondered why we need to know this? why are you telling us this about yourself? shouldn't you mean 'more vulnerable to becoming narcissists'?
I remember when I got my ADHD diagnosis and I tried to talk to my old best friend, who I believe is a narcissist, about what I was experiencing and she kept cutting me off to say “oh i experience that too” “me too” I felt like she was hijacking my diagnosis lol
I think that's also a common microaggression. People will be like "everyone's a little ADHD" but don't understand how much it actually impacts your everyday life.
Yeah this is a common reaction I have yet these people haven’t been fired from places for their symptoms showing. Or completely flunk in school
This is so relatable and funny 🤣
Sometimes people are just trying to feel they can relate/connect to you too though, and also many people do experience the symptoms adhd people have, but just not to the same persistent degree, so they think they understand when they don’t. I’m not saying she didn’t hijack it, she may well have, as I think instincts are too often overlooked for the value they truly have, so you are probably right in this instance, I’m just suggesting that it could be something else too.
Hahahahahha
My ex narc would develop ADHD whenever I would try to talk about my day or anything that would interest me but she would tell me every detail of her day with no problem.
They like to hear their own voices!
Omg same! They would interrupt me, cut me off saying ‘I don’t want to talk about this’ if the conversation didn’t suit them (one conversation they did this was when I tried to open up to them about my cousin’s stage 4 cancer operation/progress update)...and even had the nerve to tell me off in front of people/in public settings when I’d try and join the conversation. But if they were talking, strap yourself in for an hour+ long conversation about their opinions on a topic, talking loudly and not allowing you to get a word in sideways. It ended up being a headache of white noise for me, I felt bad for shutting off but it got draining emotionally and physically. So glad they’re in the past!
Hoping you are doing better without your Nex also!
@@laurenristov damn, thanks for sharing. Best wishes
Making you feel invisible isn’t cool.
Fr tho
There's no end to narcissistic behaviour, hey.
😂😂😂 He dozed off when I started talking to him😂😂😂; the phone rings, and he can speak for an hour in a very alert state. 😂
My NEX dozed off during sex....lol....I was still single...how naive I was.smh
Right! Haha
But of course, they should have it in the wedding vows, love, honour and listen! Being married equals/hearing "I told you already!" countless times....
@@Suzu52 am so sorry love, that was more than disrespect but violation. What a mean person: hugs to you♥
@@Alibrose If you met him you would think he s a "great guy"....the mask of the narcissist....
Heard that ADHD "excuse" many times. Often combined with an angry " I'm sorry you don't understand adhd" ... Always thought if it really was ADHD there would be at least a willingness to be a little more attentive...but it was always "this is how it is, accept it or don't"
Right there with you.
Yes! Same here.
I agree. I don't think someone who has to deal with ADHD would be so at ease to use it as an excuse for being rude. I understand an ADHD person being direct and no nonsense in speech but someone saying "I would kick my housemate out of the house without remorse if I dont want to share my space anymore, I wouldn't care" . And then says: do you want to travel together? Heck no 😅
@@koraXro yes my 18yo daughter was diagnosed with ADHD 1-2yrs ago, originally she was very ashamed and didn’t tell anyone (not even her teachers). She has zero filter (impulse control), but never says anything out of malice, she has the hyperactive type and can monopolise conversations, but in etc. it can be very frustrating and appear rude but I have seen the other side where she has cried to the psychologist about accidentally hurting peoples feelings 😞. And she is the first to use that non filtered voice to stick up for anyone being bullied ❤️.
Through therapy i was diagnosed with ADHD. Through more therapy we discovered I was the scapegoat for a covert narcissist mother. These difference are 100% i space out when people talk all the time. Stuff grabs my attention. Ideas and thought run wild in my head all the time. I'm very fidigity when sitting to long. Went in to therapy for me having depression and I came out with adhd/depression/anxiety and a sign of hope to finally heal and start my life. I have 26 years to make up.
If a narcissist uses ADHD as an excuse for their behaviour, then that tells me that they have full knowledge of who they are and try hard to find something to blame their behaviour on so they do not get called out on it. One of my ex-colleagues used that same excuse to explain away his behaviour only for me to finally realise I was dealing with a covert narc the whole time. I am intrigued over how and why they tend to use the same lies to mask their true identity.
Experienced the same.
I think many narcissists are in denial about their behaviour, such that they'd genuinely believe they have ADHD. Narcissism is incredibly misunderstood, so what are the odds that narcissist would be self-aware of their own narcissism? Many people think narcissism is the overt type (grandiose / classic / oblivious), so coverts think they don't have the disease.
Similarly, some narcs think they're autism spectrum. The difference between an autist and a narcissist is once you tell an autist that their behaviour is harming you they will be remorseful, apologetic, and try to rectify it, whereas a narcissist will deny it, and twist it back on you.
So, in my experience, most coverts are aware that something is wrong, but the last thing they'll ever admit even to themselves, is that they are narcissists.
Ya unless it’s been adhd this entire time... see that’s the thing adhd is an impulsive disorder... so whoever has it looks like they’re not paying attention to there significant other and does stupid impulsive shit... so it can be confusing
I have ADD and have a female colleague who might have a cluster B disorder because she has clearly symptoms of it like emotion regulation, gets stressed out and mad easily, childish voice, very insecure et cetera. Eating salads and fruit one day and smokes a package and drinks energy drinks the other day. And she told me she has ADHD and I asked her if she was diagnosed and she said no then I told her I'm diagnosed and use ritalin.
Very awkward situation it was. Never listening too her though lol always irritating her with my talkative ways. I need to work on myself though.
@@rfwoolf I completely agree with this. It matches my experience with my spouse.
I’ve been married to a narcissist for 37 years, but didn’t connect the dots until a few years ago. Pretty much every video you make is my life. For years I spent hours on my computer researching various personality disorders, and 10 years ago, I stumbled on a book about adult ADHD and he seemed to have every symptom. I chewed on that for a few years but kept searching until I came to the realization it was full blown narcissism. I could write a book here but I want to say that your videos have been a tremendous help to me in understanding this illness and how to cope.
Thank you for this video. I like the way that you used the presence of empathy and absence of contempt to differentiate ADHD from narcissism. This video is useful in raising awareness of ADHD.
Narcissism vs avoidant attachment style pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! I LOVE YOU (as a respectful fan who maintains her distance and respects your privacy and the fact that we don't know each other!)
and and and
NPD vs people with the grandiose schema who are actually sweethearts and don't mistreat anyone and score extremely low on narcissism despite having that schema
Avoidant done about 3 days ago? Maybe 4
@@joywebster2678 thanks so much but that was about Avoidant Personality disorder which has no relation or commonalities with Avoidant attachment style (psychologists and psychiatrists are really bad at naming things)
I’m very happy to see this video my daughter father has ADHD and he uses this disorder to ignore me when I confront him about his hyper sexual behavior and mannish activities while I’m at work I left him for a year after he cheated he recently too me to Tucson Arizona as a vacation and displayed the exact same behavior! After the vacation he demanded everything back even stock shares he bought, because I didn’t take him back soon enough
Wow. He appears to have npd as well. Wishing you all the best
Yikes!
I have severe ADHD (on disability for it under neurological/brain damage).
Yes I've made some embarrassing mistakes with sexual impulsivity but I've NEVER cheated on anyone!
That's not an ADHD issue, it's a morality issue!
@@mimi42428 Not necessarily. He might be ASPD as well or a bit of both on different ends of the scale.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for this. It’s horrible how society resents people with ADHD even as they apologize relentlessly. I’ve never met someone with ADHD that used their disability as an excuse and didn’t apologize but I’ve certainly seen friends who I suspect are on the narcissist spectrum zone out and rudely not care when you call them out. People with ADHD spent a lifetime carrying this shame, crippling their life in every regard so it’s unlikely they would not care or use it as some excuse.
I will say the interruption for me is more driven by a lack of working memory so I can’t hold the thought in long enough but I try aggressively to monitor that and apologize. My nex would interrupt to pívot back to blaming me. I like how you said you can tell a lot in the narcs body language/facial expressions. Especially when they try to monopolize the conversation!
My last long-term partner (diagnosed with ADHD + Antisocial PD) really weaponized ADHD to explain away their gaslighting and invalidating demeanour
during conversations a lot. A tip on something to really look out for is if they can easily switch it up once someone else is there to observe them. Cause once a third party was brought in, there was always 0 eye-rolling and sighing and looking away or at their phone/watch, ridiculing/nitpicking what or how I said things (or even looked, in a really irrelevant way not relating to for example emoting, when I did), getting frustrated to the point of yelling or storming off at the slightest hint of criticism etc. Which, in itself, was really gaslighty and horrible as well - cause it always made it seem like I exaggerated how hard communicating with them was (cause when someone else could see or hear it, they listened and validated and made oh-so-sure how willing they were to do better if, alas, only I could just tell them HOW - as if I hadn't tried every means of communication under the sun over and over again for years. Then you all know the drill: back to just us and it's square one like a light switch).
I know exactly what you're talking about. It horrified me when I realized someone was doing this to me because 1) you've been singled out and targeted, and 2) the fact that they can control behaviours excused as ADHD symptoms when others can see proves that they know they're misbehaving.
wow i relate to this alot. My partner has adhd but im pretty sure theres more going on there as he is very defiant , rude and can get verbally so cold nasty and rejective. He struggles so much with any crticism , when we had therapy with someone once he was literally like a different person , really understanding , really contained , didn't show any of his snappy , harsh rude sides and it felt utterly frustrating to witness. what ive noticed with him aswell is how quickly eh switches between idolising me and saying i'm perfect to blaming me for his own stuff and not being able to empathise much at all when we are in conflict. i'm really struggling to work out whats going on with him , he isnt a full blown Narc and yet he denies and deflects and gets very atogonistic when we are fighting.
So, I guess I'm somewhat like your last partner. I did grow a lot more resistant to criticism and I don't storm off when someone close voices it anymore. But it took some training. Personally, I wrote those emotions off as sensitive rejection dysphoria, which is common with ADHD people. But now I don't even know how you can separate it from a narcissist's fragile personality because a lot of the symptoms look very similar. With that said, I'm not sure if this is full-blown or true NPD because, for me, these knee-jerk reactions and the ability to control my impulses get a lot better if I take ADHD stimulant medications that day. It makes me a lot stabler emotionally and either outright reduces such knee-jerk reactions to a bare minimum or gives me more control over how I express them (i.e., I have time to see what my first reaction is, realize it's inadequate, toss it away and respond in a better way). I think there's more interplay between ADHD and NPD than we think, but it's not straight forward what influences what...
Thank you!!!! I appreciate this video a lot!! I have true ADHD. I have a Mother with high vulnerable narcissistic traits. I went no contact last Easter….So, after watching many of your videos I now know I also have been in a relationship with someone for over 17 years also with high narcissism traits and have children with her…she says she has Autism now and blames my ADHD struggles for her mental health issues and most of our relationship issues…I am trying to weed out and understand clearly what my part is and what it is not as I tend to apologize for everything just to keep the peace even if I have not done anything wrong…I have always put others before myself and my health has suffered because of it and I don’t want to model that to my kids so I am learning new ways to live and how to like myself. (Gotta say, hardest work I’ve done to date)
Your videos have truly changed my life in so many healthy ways…Thank you…again 💗
Thank you Dr. Ramani ❤️🛼🥰
I've been diagnosed with AD(H)D at the age of 34. 5 months later I've been diagnosed with a burnout, one year after that I've been diagnosed with a somatic symptom disorder. 6 months after that with c-ptsd and that explained everything and the hell of my longterm relationship. Thank you so much for this video, dr Ramani! ❤
Fantastic. I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 30s and had a BPD narcissistic mother who I suspect also had ADHD. It’s always been my fear that I would end up like her, a borderline, but I make it my business to be self aware and consciously take another route. Being raised by a narcissist though, I think one can adopt certain characteristics due to learned behavior. I often relate to others by sharing a story about myself, in an effort to convey understanding. My father has often called me “self involved” because of all of the “I” statements I use. This video serves as a good reminder of how I can be perceived. I don’t want to be a conversational narcissist or listen to anyone with contempt.
Hey Dr. Ramani! Had to let you know that your videos helped me and my partner meet each other. We both learned from your videos before we met, and talking about narcissists is what got us talking for 3 hours after I picked her up while I was Ubering. We found our soulmates partly thanks to you :)
WOW! You are on fire! I have ADHD and I was watching your videos and I was thinking man! I really wonder what her perspective on ADHD is! You're pumping out so much content! Keep it up! :)
Something I'd like to clarify for your viewers is that someone with ADHD can have sustained attention on something that they are interested in (particularly when it is new information). So when they first start dating someone, when they discover a new hobby, etc. They might spend the whole day focusing on one thing! So the disorder is really about the executive function of focusing attention and managing time other other executive functions. If you are interested in learning more about ADHD I would look for Russel Barkley (sadly he does not have an awesome youtube channel).
I really liked how well you talked about ADHD! It often is talked about by people who think they understand and then spout out myths. Sadly these people include doctors and psychologists, so it was great to see that you were keeping up to date with research and again I really appreciate it :)
I had. To rewind it a few times
OMG
My former fiance and would be mother-in-law intermittently claimed that he had a diagnosis company ADHD. He would deny it and then use the diagnosis when beneficial to himself his mother used to explain his behavior / temperament. Thank you so much for this content and education.
Just finished the video on autism vs narcissism and saw this one and so I HAD to click it since I have ADHD. One thing in particular that I liked is how you pointed out multiple ways that narcissists will use ADHD as an excuse for their narcissistic behaviors. Also I liked that you mentioned that many of those people have never actually been diagnosed with ADHD, but they've learned about it and have incorporated it as a way to deflect blame and avoid ever having to apologize. And finally, speaking of apologizing, that is something else you mentioned that I liked as well: people who have been diagnosed with ADHD are typically worried and/or apologetic of their behavior when they or someone else notices it. Narcissistic people, in my experience, avoid the words "I'm sorry" like it's the plague; they rarely if ever admit mistakes or apologize, and they almost always react negatively when they are called out... UNLESS, of course, they can find some reason that making a token apology could give them some sort of advantage socially/etc.
Thank you for you videos Dr Ramani. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I just escaped a 5 year relationship. During this time I have been diagnosed with Adult ADHD & also the auto immune disease , psoriatic arthritis . You’re videos are really helping me to heal & understand what has been happening to me. Just wish I’d found you sooner ❤️
Thank you so much for posting this. I have combined type ADHD and I feel so guilty for my ADHD symptoms constantly and to hear people compare it to narcissism is really disheartening. I try very very hard to manage my symptoms and none of them are intentional. One thing I've noticed that is also pretty common in people with ADHD (either inattentive or hyperactive) is that we are major people pleasers because of how inconvenienced people tend to be by our symptoms.
Thank you so much for this! Been wondering about it for a while. It would be interesting to know more about other causes for rage in various disorders compared to narcissistic rage, since ADHDers for example, often experience meltdowns, especially in combination with sensory overload, and I've noticed this is sometimes hard to interpret for outsiders.
This is a great idea. I would love to learn about reactions rooted in neurodivergence and ways to support people experiencing them.
Autistic rage in some.
Yes. I’ve grown out of the adhd rage syndrome (I’m now 70) but it was a undiagnosed and distressing problem in childhood and adolescence. I felt so guilty about it all my life. Now I know it was my adhd brain chemistry and can learn to forgive myself. Thank you for your comment!!
A huge component of ADHD is emotional dysregulation. To learn more about it, I suggest to look into Russell Barkley! His lectures and books have been a game changer.
Hope this helps!
Good Evening Dr Ramani: June 1st is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day (WNAAD) occurs on June 1st every year. Established in 2016, Keep spreading the awareness!!!!!
Hi everyone, well malignant mom blamed her lack of ability to concentrate on this but, by then, it was just in one ear and out the other for me, trying to be polite yet as short as possible, woman needed a lion tamer!
By listening your videos i could learn so much, that i could start the healing process of my husband. Both of his parents are extremely narcissistic. I have them in my family too, so now i can predict exactley their acts and behaviour. THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr. Ramani.
I've suspected for a while that my last ex was a narcissist (he was more covert, so I didn't notice it when it was happening) and you've just described him: he *always* blamed his adhd for not being able to listen, contemptuous inattention, his impulsivity, how much he avoided responsibility. And he even admitted he self-diagnosed as adhd but tbh I think he had that, *and* npd. He had all these other horrible behaviours and it just clicked: he's a narcissist. He gaslit me all the time, and I knew that but I kept trying to change him (lol, I know), he love-bombed and became a completely different person a few months after we met when we had decided to stop seeing other people, he was cold and emotionless (my dog died and I was heartbroken and he said "well, what, it's just a dog and anyway she had cancer so you knew she was going to die soon anyway" and he couldn't understand how that is hurtful and not OK to say. But I hadn't put 2 and 2 together until now.
your ex is an asshole to act like such a piece of shit when you lost your dog. im sorry that happened to you. thank god you are no longer dating this person, they would have destroyed you. they often do.
Simple the difference is empathy. Very nice Dr ! Great video.
My ex used to constantly use ADHD as an excuse for never listening to me, yet he would focus so hard on other people (only if they were validating him in some way of course) or the RUclips videos he would constantly watch. I would tell him it's not selective like that and he said I was "making fun of his disability". furthermore I have actually been diagnosed with ADHD in college and I know it's not like that. Thank you Doctor Ramani
Ya no kidding, mine's the same! He's really screwed himself making himself too comfortable with the big screen TV and now has physical trouble trying to do otherwise! I'll bet they've realized they couldn't get anything more out of us, we're spent!
He probably just didn't want to deal with a chick who thinks dudes are supposed to submit to them lol. You picked wrong you are responsible for your own bad choices of men. If you weren't in love why do you believe you are entitled to have anyone listen to you? If you were in love, why did you pick such a low value guy? Why not stay single until you find a...oh because you don't like real men who take no shit. You chose your narcissist because you don't value yourself.
my ex did have ADHD and an avoidant attachment style and so resembled NPD but absolutely wasn't, overall a good person but I wish I could have convinced him to get help. They are very very distinctive characteristics
Nice to read "my ex" 😉👍
@@ninaschust3694 yeah remember there are two sides to every story
Thank you for this clear explanation. I have ADHD (predominately inattentive type).
Working to explain to someone that my ADHD may affect certain things in my life is one thing, but using it as an excuse not to try is quite another. I have always hated that people say ADHD is just an excuse (I've never understood how that is possible) Listening to you helps me to see that a certain someone in my life does indeed use her ADHD as an excuse for her disgusting behaviour.
Thank you so much for this! It is good to have clarification on this, I wish there was more. It seems to me that both of my parents demonstrate many of the presentations of both ADHD and narcissism. I have been formally diagnosed with ADHD. and want to be able to weed out any of the narsasism that got past on to me and get all of the emotionally abusive coping mechanisms out of my life. and being able to see what the diference between these is is so very helpful. it is super awesome that now that i have my ADHD more managed how much better I am at seeing my own anxiety, and other coping styles. and also it seems like i have been able to learn so much more about myself and also stay present during the times that i start to dissociate. and it helps me be able to process things so much better.
I watched all of your videos a year ago about this and then started to justify that my parents weren't being abusive or narcissistic. but they just had ADHD. but after learning and accepting all of the emotional abuse that they have done. i think that i am ready to not justify all of their abuse.
Wow. I searched and searched for the link between these two things whwn I broke up and left a narcissist last year. This is soooo helpful. And kind of validates what I see in retrospect. Glad to be at a place of forgiveness now (with keeping no contact, of course!!!)
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was young and used to take medication for it. I take supplements now and practice CBT to get through the automatic negative thoughts and to see how other people see things. It helps me focus on what people say to me. The hard part is recognizing when I am acting narcissistic and reign it in. Especially when I think I am entertaining the people around me and they don't appreciate it. I think self awareness has helped.
What helps your identify when your being narcissist when talking to people
OMG, you never cease to amaze me. My ex would ask a question and the person asked would begin to answer the question and only five words would come out of their mouth before my ex would cut them off and ask another question.
My eldest son is a narcissist and when he was in year 6 his teacher suggested he had ADHD! I thought she was mad to be honest, so this video was really interesting. Thank you
Are you 100% he is a narcissist? Imagine how sad it would be for you to go no contact with your son who might br ADHD or even something else as well.
That would be tragic.
You are my favorite on these topics. You are gentle and kind and have a great sense of humor! Thank you for these videos that you do! I have learned alot from your videos!
Could you also compare Narcissism with Autism Spectrum Disorder? And how would they interact? I'm having a Situation like that at the Moment.
I’m curious about this too
Yeah, Id really appreciate that as well
My boyfriend has Aspergers with symptoms of ADHD, and my ex-counselor asked me one session, “is he a narcissist?” Very professional. No, like me he’s just an asshole because his brain is different and you attribute motives based on your own neurology. 🤣 We both have severe trauma from being gaslit by neurotypicals for 4 decades, so that was not really a surprise. People learning to recognize the difference is an important thing for our community.
My brother has autism while I believe my dad is covertly narcissistic. Autistic children of narcs tend to struggle even more as they usually become scapegoats in the family dynamic. But it’s a similar thing to what she’s saying about ADHD. If an Autistic person hurts your feelings by not understanding emotional cues, they will usually apologize if you gently explain it.
Autistic meltdowns also usually look way different from narcissistic rage. An autistic person will truly lose control during a meltdown, but if you pay attention to narcissistic rage you will notice that they usually rage at specific people and their actions seem more specifically targeted to hurt.
@@alyssab90 Hey, thank you for that thought. I have been wondering about that. And I completely agree. Though being on the spectrum myself... I think I might still discover that I have occasional intent to hurt, but I feel terribly bad if I act on it - It get's almost unbearable.
I think what made me connect the two is that it is said that "Autistic people have no empathy". I learned that Narcs and Autistic people just have two different types of empathy. Autism: Affective Empathy but lacking Cognitive empathy (They feel for you, but they struggle to express it). Narcissism: Cognitive Empathy lacking affective Empathy (They can imagine how you feel, but they can barely feel with you. And they use their cognitive abilities to charm or hurt others). At least that's what I learned. I hope I repeated it correctly.
I'm sorry about your Brother. I hope he doesn't have to suffer too much from your Dad. Definitely a really sad combo.
My Friends Dad drove her brother into suicide using him as a scapegoat. Autistic people are 3 times more prone to committing suicide than normal people. Even more reason to keep your brother away from your Father.
Thank you so much! I have ADHD and I always worried it came it across as something else more nefarious like, narcissism, this really helps to explain the differences between an accommodation being needed versus just an excuse.
One of the biggest ways I've ever brought out my narcissistic parent's rage was when I'd gotten diagnosed with ADHD at age 36.
"Oh!", she said on the phone, "you were diagnosed with that at age eight."
"Why didn't you tell me? Why didn't anybody do anything? So much trouble was utterly preventable. You had a *responsibility*."
Even though I got the diagnosis confirmed in triplicate with rigorous tests, from that point on, she was determined to convince people it was a lie and my medical condition was whatever defamatory thing she could come up with. My ADHD went from something she'd blurt, to a thing she was on the warpath to destroy my social standing over.
Note to folks out there: whenever your health situation implicates a narcissistic parent's poor parenting, get away! You've become living evidence of their shortcomings, and they'll play dirty.
I've been learning this lesson recently....didn't finish my University degree, got into an accident that totaled my car, almost lost my job but was put on on short term disability instead and all I kept hearing throughout was ''oh you're just like me, except I didn't have anyone to help guide me through all of this! Aren't you lucky!''
Unfortunately, I had to move back home. Recently got diagnosed with ADHD and I've been trying to heal my inner child....noticing all the ways I was neglected. acknowledgement for what I personally went through
Woah. My story was similar without the narc. Diagnosed at age 44, called my mom while in the pharmacy parking lot, was told about my childhood diagnosis. In my case, she believed all the bad press in the 80's about Ritalin and never even tried to help in any other way with therapy or anything else. Same result though. Feeling things could have been way different had I known. It took me a few years, but what I figured out as I learned about my new situation was that she most likely also has it. There is a strong genetic link to mothers after all and she displays a lot of inattentive and impulsive behaviors. Once I realized that, it became clear to me she was not really capable of doing anything about it anyway. She was as ignorant about it as I was and as effective as I was at mitigating something I didn't know was there.
I can't get my damn family to look at or listen to your work even though the members are embroiled in a situation with a narcissistic relative. I've encouraged that they see you and hear you; it's to no avail. It's really frustrating. You're right on.
I LOVE this topic because the Narcs that were in my life ALWAYS said that! "I have ADHD I can't help ...."😂
Lol same here.
Exactly! I have ADHD and the number of times I went back and forth with my bosses to discuss and agree some strategies to help me do my job to the absolute best of my ability. I never approached it as a given - always politely asked whether there is anything reasonable that could be done about xyz to help. I always tried out my boss's suggestions, whatever they were, cause I don't see myself as having some superior knowledge. Some worked, some didn't but the point is - it was a team effort to get the best out of me, never me telling them what they "owe" me.
If I'm late, I apologise and try harder the next day - never used my ADHD as an excuse for my lateness. If I can't focus and listen, I politely ask the person to repeat themselves adding openly that I struggled to focus and would like a second chance to properly engage with them. If I overreact and treat someone unfairly, I take the time to cool down and then go and apologise for my behaviour without excuses. Then I try harder next time.
This is the difference between ADHD and narcissism.
I have ADHD (and autism) and my dad has narc tendencies (he refuses to go to therapy so we’ll never know for sure if he actually has NPD), but when I have interrupted someone it’s by accident and I apologize, or it’s because I’m super eager to relate to what they’re saying. I realized when this is done to me it’s hurtful and feels like the other person isn’t listening/doesn’t care, so I’ve stopped interrupting! My dad interrupts because he doesn’t think what you’re saying is important. He dominates the conversation and will scream over the person he’s talking to until they stop talking. He thinks so highly of himself and his opinions when he himself is an absolute disaster. When he interrupts me and I ask to finish what I’m saying he’ll say “I already know what you’re going to say.” But if you interrupt HIM it’s a problem and he explodes. I feel like that sums up the difference perfectly.
The evolution of Trauma Bond coupled with ADHD is the most horrific experience; the rage, the labeling and the shame is the last thing ADHD people need.
Wow, I didn't realize that ADHD has such a bad reputation that it would get confused with narcissism!
I was diagnosed after my son was (common story for women), and although life is significantly easier for me now that I'm taking medication, I don't think that other people have noticed much of a change.
I'm still 1-20 minutes late to everything. (I'm working on it! Tip: try to have another appointment before your real appointment. For me, it can be as simple as throwing the book I'm reading in my purse and saying "I'll arrive early and have time to read!" Whenever I remember to do this, I'm on time! )
Other than that... I already know how to quickly build a railway line back to the original topic when I realize that I've derailed my friend's train of thought. I purposely have my friend tell everything on her mind before I speak so that just in case I talk too much, at least she'll have already felt heard.
I know that I'm bad at keeping up with people so I plan recurring meets instead of having to figure out new plans every time.
I'm bad at birthday and holiday cards, so I go for spontaneous celebrations and parties. I listen better while drawing or knitting.
To me, being bad at the things that I'm bad at makes me a bit odd and sometimes annoying, but not a bad friend. Why would it?
My son is also very ADHD and a terrible chatterbox, but he has a kind heart and gets along with everyone: little kids, his own age, adults, seniors. He is interested by most things, and as long as it's social, he's happy to do what's interesting for the other person. It seems alarming to me that ADHD and narcissist personality disorder would ever be confused. Maybe I'm ruder than I realized?
I completely agree. Really really? Like narcs? I am a good listener. I regard it as a love language; it’s how I show deep respect to people and comfort friends.
This video is scattered and not so nuanced. There is a LOT to cover about ADHD relationships. Being ADHD puts you at higher risk for abuse, but at the same time it doesn't mean people with ADHD are never abusive or fall into toxic dynamics. I think people who are undiagnosed tend to have developed RSD and a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms. I know a lot of undiagnosed ADHD men end up in relationships where they expect their NT partner to basically parent them but also to cut them endless slack. If you are managing it and acknowledge what things are harder for you, then this video probably doesn't apply!
Gooood video. Esp when we're self doubting. Thank you. I can DEFINITELY see the difference. Arrogance (narcissistic) vs confusion (ADHD)
i have BPD, somehow seem to attract a lot of narcissists + everyone I've dated has had ADHD (coincidence, not intentional). From my own experience I think narcissist traits can develop from ADHD, I've noticed a fair amount of overlap
I would say more that narcissism might get misdiagnosed as ADHD or narcissists blame their problems on ADHD even if that's not the case
So glad you made this video...my son has added and is getting help for it..he recognizes it and wants a better life...he fit almost all of the narcissistic traits and I thought he was..now I know he's not.
Oh my God, I was waiting for this ❤️
You are so smart. You just made me see the bigger picture on so many people.
Every time I watch a video, it's as if you're describing daily issues within my life! My husband, I started becoming aware of his narc tendencies about a year and a half ago. Like a light bulb was flickering and now it's straight up - out; I have identified it, no question. But the part about how one can start to show adhd symptoms as a reaction caused by the stress and anxiety from dealing with narc abuse, is what really interests me. This was never an issue for me, yet gradually, it has become one. Where it gets REALLY interesting, is that I was diagnosed with MS in Dec of 2016. Now Ive analyzed that year and those leading up to it, then sandwiched it between "likely genetically predispositioned" and "geographic susceptibility," VOILA, MS! But now I truly wonder if it could have been brought on through the constant stress...?
I'm sorry, what is MS?
Also, I've experienced that too - I've been with narcs for about 7 years + my mother (highly narcissistic). ADHD was never an issue for me either but the last 7 years feel almost like a blur, I have severe memory laps and time just seems to pass by. It is super interesting that Dr. Ramani links these symptoms to narcissistic abuse, I was wondering if I actually had ADHD cause it felt like it
I'm convinced my health issues were due to the narcissistic traits of my spouse. So yeah I think the hormonal disregulation involved in abusive relationships is a causative factor in many health conditions. Not for sure about MS though. Might be worth it to research.
Thanks!
I can’t help but feel like this was made for Gabbie Hanna.
i giggled
Absolutely
💀💀💀
Same
I just found out that Gaby exists and came back to this video I watched when it came out and only thought: Cool video. Now I think I love Dr. Ramani even more. ❤️
FINALLY! I have soooooo needed this discussion. Thank you for speaking to this -- it means everything to me to get a better understanding of these two sources of behavior!💞💐🙏🏼🥳
It would be great to hear even more about how to distinguish between what is an artifact of ADHD and what is more an issue with narcissism. A larger distinction that helps to understand the differences of CAN'T versus WON'T. When someone is behaving in a way that is disruptive, for example interrupting, understanding that the interrupting happens because the person simply cannot read contextual cues very well is very different than the person who is trying to mow you over to get to the microphone. Recognizing the distinction between these two sources of behavior would be very helpful in 1-on-1 situations and group (e.g., family) situations.
Thank you for spreading awareness as always Dr. Ramani! However, as someone who has severe ADHD themselves, I would like to mention a couple things! Sorry for the super duper long post-it’s like a freaking BOOK, but it’s something that has affected me my entire life and is very important for others to understand.
First, the medical community has recently removed ADD as a diagnosis and only calls it ADHD now. However, there are three presentations of ADHD that include-Hyperactive/Impulsive (the “classic” and stereotypical presentation, and the one that boys tend to usually have and doctors look for-often leading to girls being under diagnosed), Inattentive, and also Combined Type (which is both, and what I have!).
So, technically ADD is not really a term used anymore, because it is now just called ADHD-Inattentive Presentation (or type). I think they’ve done this to make it less confusing. But honestly, in my opinion, and much of the ADHD community in general-the name itself (ADHD) is highly misleading and even stigmatizing. People with ADHD do not necessarily only LACK in attention-because we tend to actually HYPERFOCUS, but mostly on things that we shouldn’t be focusing on (aka FUN STUFF, yay lol) because we have other priorities to work on first.
This is because we have a neurological imbalance of dopamine in our brains-a.k.a. the “feel good” chemical. Because of the lack of dopamine, we tend to become more addicted to risky behaviors such as gambling and binge eating, unsafe sex, overspending or drugs and alcohol abuse because of the high levels of dopamine produced. Our tendency towards impulsivity can lead us to try these things without necessarily thinking through the consequences, not to mention many of the other co-morbid conditions that may increase our risk of addiction as well such as depression, anxiety, and other mental health conditions.
But, to try to explain to someone without ADHD-think of it like this... we go through our lives every single day, like a bucket trying to fill up with water, but the only problem is that 1.) there’s a gaping hole in the bottom 2.) there’s a veryyy slow trickle of water (dopamine) coming into our buckets and 3.) every activity that we do involving any type of executive function (planning, time management, emotional regulation, decision making, and literally everything we struggle with) takes some of our very little and precious water out. Not to mention other people trying to hog our water and all the interruptions that constantly mess up the little focus and energy we have on our tasks at hand. And the only thing that helps this lack of water (concentration/energy/executive functioning) is stimulant medication.
Those who are Neurotypical and don’t have ADHD already generally have enough dopamine, so they don’t need anymore. That’s why if they do abuse stimulant meds, they get high because it produces TOO much! Whereas those with ADHD take them as a necessity, because it helps fill up our “buckets” (our brains) with “water” to a more normal/healthy level. Sorry for explaining this badly, my mind is kinda scattered right now!
Anyways, my point is, ADHD is MUCH more complex than the general public thinks it is. It’s NOT the stereotype when people say, “Ooh! Look a squirrel!” because it’s sooooo much deeper than that and interferes with every aspect of my life than just being distracted. Anyone who wants to learn more about ADHD specifically, I would recommend the RUclips channel “How to ADHD” with Jessica! She’s so amazing and I’ve learned so much about myself through her channel. So beneficial to our community that is already HIGHLY stigmatized and misunderstood. Also, research the term “executive dysfunction” because that’s essentially what ADHD is in a nutshell due to chemical imbalances in our brains.
Lastly, (finally!) I want to just remind people to be patient with those with ADHD. I promise you, we do not want to have it most of the time-except for when it actually benefits us, such as with creativity and thinking outside the box! It is so much harder than most people think, and can be extremely detrimental to our mental health and wellness when we just feel like we can’t get anything right :/. I’m not sure many can top losing their keys, wallet, and phone all in one day, and also doing things constantly like being distracted and accidentally running a RED LIGHT one time (thank GOD i was okay-I forgot to take my meds and have been good about them since that time-they help me so freaking much).
But with this said, don’t feel sorry for us, we can do it, we just may need a little extra push-whether that be reminding us about an important appointment, or telling us to pack our bag and put it near the door so it will be easier to be on time for work. Little things like that are so beneficial, because unlike narcs, we desperately WANT to improve and they don’t. Narcs also don’t have a chemical imbalance that causes these symptoms, it’s just called being an asshole and not having emotional maturity. 🙃 thanks for listening to my TED talk!
That was Super helpful!! Thank you.
The RUclips channel ''How to ADHD'' is amazing!! You did a great job explaining what she talks about. It's one of, if not the only, channel I consistently watch to center myself when feeling like the neurotypical world is too much! I've sent multiple videos to family members in hopes that they would understand when I do certain things like; interrupting in a conversation, not showing up on time or forgetting important dates, that I don't maliciously do these things. I've just recently been diagnosed as a 24 year old woman. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression before (which is unfortunately common for women I guess, great! lol). I thought I was just a bad person/not meant to live in such a world that was so exhausting. I would want to do all the things and look at everyone else doing all the things so effortlessly (to a certain extent obviously) and just thought I was dumb/had a quirky personality. But once I figured out the extent to which ADHD affects one's day to day life I was beyond amazed at how this disability is soooo poorly understood!!
Another place to get more information about ADHD is Russell Barkley's videos about childhood ADHD on RUclips. I 17264749380% recommend!
The specific video I watched he speaks to parents with children who have ADHD and explains why it's considered a disorder... reassuring them it's not ''bad parenting'' and that children with ADHD shouldn't be given less work/deadlines as accommodations, if anything they should have more little deadlines in between when the work is due because they'll forget/leave it to the last minute because of the lack of dopamine ''motivational hormone''. Idefinition
hyperfocusing
eferring
I actually never thought I had adhd until I got really depressed and told my best friend that I think something is wrong with me. She sent me so many relatable things that I never realized were part of it. All my car wrecks, really struggling with being on time, etc. I was confused for a long time because I can hyperfocus. Like you said on what I find interesting. Like staying up until 3 am when Im interested in something even though I have to get up at 6am. The time just flies by and I don't even realize. Then I get little sleep and my focus just ends up getting worse. Then I feel shitty. For instance I've been hungry for about 4 hours but I keep watching RUclips videos. I've never been evaluated for ADHD but have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression. I'm about to start antidepressants so I'm going to try really pay attention to if it helps my focusing issues. Since it would be helping my brain create dopamine. I'll see how it goes and if it's still bad I will need to possibly get help for adhd. I'm also healing from narc abuse but looking back my ADHD patterns have always been there even before but the stress of that has definitely made it worse. I started this with wanting to ask you a question but I don't even remember what it was. Lol. Oh I guess do u think antidepressants would help with add symptoms?
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well-written comment, Mackenzie! It’s the most relatable one I’ve read here. ❤️ (And I agree that Jessica is awesome!)
I’d also like to add that-like narcissists, unfortunately-many people with ADHD struggle with emotional (dys)regulation.
I was diagnosed in my early 50s, and I *know* I’ve overreacted to all kinds of things countless times throughout my life and behaved inappropriately because of that…but also felt intensely remorseful because of it, and-more importantly-bent over backwards making amends to people I’ve hurt. (It’s pretty easy for me to *get* when that’s the case because my-wait for it-empathy kicks in.)
While I appreciate Dr Ramani’s videos and have experienced narcissistic mistreatment many times, I’ve also done the hard work of reflecting on whether I am a narcissist myself, so I would like to hear her acknowledge that s*itty behaviour isn’t only a narc symptom and isn’t always intentional.
@@SeasideLili u made a good point, i have ADHD and actually questioned myself many times am i a narcissist! Because of my outrage bursts once my Ptcd gets triggered ( Anxious attachment), i took many narcissism online tests just to get an insight though results will come up every time as Empath and 0 narcissism, and i really do regret my rage burts and apologies and try my best to react differently if triggered. ADHD is different than Narcissism in it's Core,
i got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 35 years old. I'm 38 now and I've been able (with help of medication and therapy) to make more positive changes in my life then ever before. I've stopped smoking, stopped binge drinking, I can hold down a job and I've left an abusive relationship!
I’ve went to alcoholism to deal with this crap! Never defended myself cuz I made so many mistakes as a drunk. I was set free from it and now my narcissist is realizing how on point i am. We almost argue more cuz I don’t put up with his shit! But one thing i will say, i now shut him down! Cuz i point out facts. He points out by victimizing himself. Which i then point out. It’s GREAT!!!
This is the content I needed 3 years ago!!!!! Ugh. What a life saver.
I was recently diagnosed with inattentive type ADHD at 48 and also suffer ongoing PTSD from years of abuse from my narc father. It is impossible to draw a line through the blurry whorl of inattention, memory issues, disassociation, chronic anxiety and emotional dysregulation and say ok, this part is ADHD, and this part is PTSD. I wonder now if my ADHD made me prime scapegoat material, being even more contempt worthy in my fathers eyes and easily manipulable with my frantic people pleasing. So interesting. Thanks Dr Ramani.
Love this series Dr.ramani..in my fb support group I send everyone this way. Your wisdom and insight in narcissism has given me great healing and you explain it so easily. Thank you for help in my recovery
This is interesting….
I have ADHD and this makes my days hard very often. Its like you have to help yourself slot to not forget something, even if it’s important to you. But I am very detailed in what I do. Its not that I cant pay attention to detail but that I sometimes struggle to pay attention to what I need to do because other things pop up in my head even though I don’t want them there. So I have to pull myself back to what I am doing constantly and fight those other thoughts out, wich is exhausting. I also pick up on things around me others don’t seam to notice, wich can be distracting.
But unlike a narcissist I am very empathic and way too people pleasing, wich can make my ADHD symptoms and struggles even worth. So if I know someone is not feeling good, this is a hard distraction to fight away so I can function in my daily life.
I have met quite a few people with ADHD and found them to be very caring and empathic. They struggle even to ask for help they need to be able to concentrate or function better. We fail at things that are important to us constantly and again and again, and we always feel bad about it, try to get our act together snd do better but are set up to fail soon again. But if we don’t work on it daily, we can’t function at all. So sometimes it seems harsh when we are obsessed with our calendar or with certain routines from the outside, but it is the only way we can function and not constantly disappoint others around us or ourselves.
But unlike a Narcissist we, if not narcissistic on top of the ADHD, are very caring and feel deeply. And we work on ourselves a lot, even if the results are inconsistent.
Thank you Dr Ramani for all your videos, and a very special thanks for this. I've asked for it, and it clarifies so much for me. You have given me new knowledge and hope during a very difficult period in my life. ❤
I have suspicions about having adhd since 13, and i still dont know cause it also overlap c-ptsd
I am working with a large family. Many of them are in fact narcissistic. I appreciate your channel so much. Thank you
It has helped. A victim was being identified aggressively at the narc. Your information really helped her .
I've always considered the possibility that I may have some form of add. I never once brought it up at doctors clinics, as mom would say, you're not supposed to accept negative things as being truth. Felt discouraged to not research more on this subject, early on. Always had difficulties in school with subjects that I had no interest in, but excelled in English class, music, with reading books. Same thing with places of employment, I excelled where I was happy, and not self conscious about what I was doing.
Since childhood, I've had the unfortunate habit of interrupting others who are speaking, only to feel guilty about it afterwards, as though I'll forget what I was thinking of. I'd like to become the great listener that I'm capable of being, make it habit to be sure the person is finished speaking, before my turn. What a frustrating habit it is, because others have often felt comfortable with opening up and trusting me.
I find Dr. Ramani's content to be extraordinarily relevant with a flair for going straight to the heart of the matter. This video is a perfect example. Who else is addressing this topic with such precision and insight? I mean, the similarities and overlapping characteristics of narcissism and ADHD are not widely discussed, but should be! This is actually a question I've had for a long time and Dr. R. answered it beautifully. I saw the contemptuousness but didn't realize that was a primary key to knowing the difference between the two disorders. Thanks!! Very helpful!
Wow, I learned that I know absolutely nothing about this! Thanks for making it digestible.
Query: Could hypervigilance as a child exhaust a person to the point of habitual inattention due to sheer exhaustion as a child into adulthood?
Thank you for your life saving work.
Good question. I was raised with my dad and what I am self diagnosing a Conversationalist narc, and I learned how to talk from him. My mom also talks allot due to not being validated by my dad. Love your question.
I really appreciated listening to what you had to say in this video, Dr. Ramani. Better understanding the relationship and differences between narcissism and adhd is helping quell my worries that I don't feel bad "enough" about the challenges that come with adhd. My mom's ex-husband was a narc and my parents haven't always believed that neurological and mental health conditions mattered, so I wasn't diagnosed until I was around 24, struggling to finish undergrad. I think my behaviour was very triggering for her so she "treated me like an adult" and attempted to "set boundaries" with me the way she might, were I an adult. Lately I've been caught between feeling, "hey, I turned out pretty well all things considered," and, "but what if I've tricked myself into thinking I'm not a narcissist." The examples you gave really helped me figure out just how silly that second one is, so thank you!
I have ADHD, yet I realized I do not retain memories of interactions and experiences I’ve gone through for decades. My friend, who I’ve shared with for decades, recalls numerous experiences I told them about, that I’ve “lost”. I think my Bandwidth has been overloaded since connecting with my partner, then raising kids.
This was my question! Omg THANK YOU!! What a comprehensive look at this! My Nex has it AND has accused me of having it.
I have had to learn the difference between my husbands behavior from his ADHD and his narcissistic ways. He actually hates having ADHD cus its makes him or people look at him "different" but he loves how smart he is and will rub it your face. But I know he is narcissistic from the lies and the rules for everyone else but non for him. He will use his ADHD to get the upper hand in an argument tho. I see the ADHD with every day things like time managment and the way his brain solves things or he gets side tracked easily or when he explains what images are in his head when someone explains something. But he has a nasty streak and he is very selfish. If he doesnt get his way or if you dont see things the way he does he is like a angry tasmania devil which I know people with ADHD can be like but his is more then anger cus its comes from not having his control, which then he will lie, manipulate and gaslight.
This is my dad. He doesn't mean to but will very much make no apology or effort to try meet deadlines or follow through on promises. He doesn't have the language of ADHD but is very selfish. Stems from his own truma and lack of cognitive ability. Just really hard.
It can be difficult to discern because you don’t want to pathologist someone, but what Dr Ramani mentions about the contemptuous overlap really plays a huge role. I have friends with ADHD who are very humble and apologetic when they lose focus. Completely different when someone had an overlap with narcissism in how it presents. I know someone with ADHD and overlapping narcissism and he is contemptuous when anything is pointed out to him about his behavior even in a very mindful way. Working with my individual therapist and the materials he provides, and watching Dr Ramani’s videos have been really eye opening. All these rules and schedules I have to adhere to in addition to being patient and mindful, yet he can snap at a drop of a dime and I am on eggshells as a result. He’s allowed to say whatever he wants but if I challenge him he will “table it” conveniently or blame shift. We can’t enable or normalize these behaviors in other do to their adhd. Dr Ramani’s video on OCPD was also helpful because the irony is the person I know began developing some of those traits as well. It’s so uncomfortable and depressing when you’re on the receiving end of that. Against Dr Ramani’s advice not to call out a narcissist, I did speak on it because I refuse to continue minimizing myself. I also have to lay down what my Non-negotiables are.
I hope that you can nurture yourself and tend to yourself so you can find some semblance of peace in your situation.
@Sway Tha Mystic I ask myself that aswell now that I know more about narcissist and gaslighting. But its hard with kids and not alot of support, which I know see was done over time for control.
I honestly cannot even begin to let you know just how helpful this has been for me, I feel like I now have the words to say to the Doctor to explain things I’ve never been capable of explaining myself ... I’ve never been able to formulate the scenarios I have witnessed with my son from his ADHD diagnosis at age 6.
He’s 21 now & it’s difficult because our nearest place that even ‘tests’ ADHD is over a hundred miles away and the waiting lists are as long as your arm !
But seriously that’s the most on point advice I’ve ever received
And
You’ve confirmed in my mind that at least he isn’t a narcissist
XxxX