2013 Subaru BRZ vs Scion FR-S 0-60 MPH Mile High Mashup Review

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  • Опубликовано: 29 окт 2024
  • ( www.TFLcar.com ) The almost identical 2013 Subaru BRZ and the 2013 Scion FR-S herald the return of the light and affordable rear-wheel drive sports car. Jointly developed by Toyota and Subaru there's very little that separates the two twins except for minor suspension differences. But since both cars can be purchased as with either an automatic transmission or a manual one we of course want to know which one is faster to 60 @1 mile above sea level...the automatic Subaru BRZ or the 6-speed manual Scion FR-S? Check out this fun TFLcar Mashup Review to find out.

Комментарии • 644

  • @nicholasreese7856
    @nicholasreese7856 8 лет назад +25

    being a mile above sea level didn't help. If they knew how to drive, that would've helped.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад +1

    Yup we agree....that's why we don't test cars with two people anymore. Also the Abarth is turbo-charged which helps compensate (to some degree) for the high altitude.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад +1

    Nice job! It's hard to believe that it took almost 100 comments before someone figured that out. You are the winner!

    • @hanger2633
      @hanger2633 3 года назад

      Remember me when you are famous

  • @MrIbeCraig
    @MrIbeCraig 8 лет назад +12

    These cars weren't built for speed, they were built for a winding track. That's where they really shine. lol

  • @SuperChargedMan101
    @SuperChargedMan101 12 лет назад +1

    The 0-60 for the FR-S with one normal size person at ground level is 6.6 seconds. BRZ is 7.3 seconds.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад +5

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! What is so hard about the concept that we are testing @ 1 Mile above sea level with less air that you don't get ????????????????????????????????????????

    • @Omlet221
      @Omlet221 4 года назад

      Excuses excuses
      Jkjk

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад +1

    also, we're testing at a mile above sea level. Please google what that does to horsepower.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    Yup, we think that you are correct and the manufacturers mostly put the same color and type of car in the regional press fleets.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    Thanks for smart the comments. You hit the nail on the head. Both the BRZ and the FR-S have almost adequate power but they lack any sort of serious torque. The cars remind me of the old RX-7 rotary Mazda.

  • @justletmecomment6453
    @justletmecomment6453 9 лет назад +10

    Hahaha what the fuck? The auto should be like mid-7s, the manual low 6s.

  • @MegaCANAM800
    @MegaCANAM800 12 лет назад

    You guys are the best you add fun to every car review.

  • @rochonhalljr
    @rochonhalljr 9 лет назад +21

    did you consider that the two of you guys add about 400-450lbs to the car?

    • @anythingbenz4005
      @anythingbenz4005 6 лет назад +1

      do you consider that they're both just slow as balls? My 2005 big boat of a mercedes does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds alone and it's Stock

    • @wheezy4157
      @wheezy4157 6 лет назад +2

      CashedClean what do u have

    • @100cvcv8
      @100cvcv8 4 года назад

      They're at least 500 plus

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад +1

    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. We're always trying to produce fun videos that our viewers want to watch and 0-60 MPH is just one of type of video that we produce. However these are ver popular videos when compared to (for instance) the drag racing video we posted yesterday....so that means we'll be making more of them.

  • @MotoErgoSum
    @MotoErgoSum 11 лет назад +1

    Probably because holding the brake while revving an automatic trans in gear is really bad for the torque converter and transmission. The guy driving the Scion honestly did a half-assed launch, though. They also left TC and ASC on and made no mention of sport mode on the automatic.
    This was basically 'average manual launch' vs 'economy mode automatic''. My BRZ Limited auto is a slug off the line, but holy hell is it fun on a twisty road at speed with the assists turned off.

  • @zheinen94
    @zheinen94 9 лет назад +19

    I want to know who the fuck buys an automatic BRZ?????

    • @TheRichieRozay
      @TheRichieRozay 9 лет назад

      Alot of people sadly:/. Middle aged guys who are lazy

    • @theresonly1truth138
      @theresonly1truth138 8 лет назад +1

      is it really a bad idea buying an automatic? does it ruin the experience? i own an sti but sometimes i am tired of getting stuck in traffic. so, the manual is more fun, but i think if they make the brz around a 250 hp with dual clutch tranny will make it a nice one.

    • @Pjmperez01
      @Pjmperez01 7 лет назад

      leftlaner710 Millennials

  • @NathanDAdlen
    @NathanDAdlen 12 лет назад

    I tried that: it still bogs down up here. It won't allow the RPM to spike at the optimum level when you launch. The fastest way for us was putting it in 'sport' goosing the engine to about 3,800 rpm and letting the Subaru do the shifting. Keep in mind: it was about 100F outside, and the Subie was carrying nearly 500 lbs of TFLCar folk. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching !

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    Lightweight track car? Really? So why did Toyota put 4 seats in the car and why does it sell with all season tires. Seems like a bunch of people (even heavy dudes) might actually drive the car on the street 99.9 percent of the time. You know....they might drive it the way we test it....just sayin'

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад +1

    Could be because millions of people live and drive above sea level in the real word.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад

    Hmmm thanks for the tip. That could be the issue or perhaps a more likely answer would be if you would be so kind as to learn what driving a car at one mile above sea level does to an engine's horsepower. Please google it. You might be surprised, and you might learn something new....just sayin'

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад

    We completely agree. One of the worst comments in history. Such an over used cliche. Did you copy and paste the comment? BTW: you forgot to add the word "Ever". I

  • @ShermanMR2
    @ShermanMR2 12 лет назад

    You guys are just so cool. The videos just keep getting better and better.

  • @Bboylimited
    @Bboylimited 12 лет назад +1

    The Frs/brz in regular altitude does about 6 seconds.

  • @MrCami1234
    @MrCami1234 12 лет назад

    I love that you guys do a real world teasting. :) Keep up the great work. :)

  • @B0BACAKES
    @B0BACAKES 10 лет назад +12

    show me 60mph entering a corner sideways

    • @Omlet221
      @Omlet221 4 года назад

      Cars are better sideways

  • @Nowheretorun7
    @Nowheretorun7 10 лет назад +24

    500lbs sitting in the front of a car a mile above sea level = shitty times
    Lose some weight, pick a better location and drive with one in the car (or dont be two fatties) if you want to truly give these cars fair results.

    • @Ben762x51
      @Ben762x51 9 лет назад +1

      They are just slow bro; however, what you said obviously does slow them down.

    • @MintyGT
      @MintyGT 9 лет назад +3

      Ben762x51
      Their 0-60 times are nothing to brag about, but an extra 600lbs of human in them managed to add about 5 seconds to their potential 0-60.

    • @websters5569
      @websters5569 9 лет назад +1

      Ben762x51 i know they're slow buddy.. but you made it sounds so damn slow. I've got a frs here and my 0-60 is 6.9 seconds.

  • @ALuna244
    @ALuna244 10 лет назад +1

    I don't think people understand what these reviews are meant for. These guys make these vids under "real world conditions", there not trying to get the fastest 0-60 times possible. The reviews are meant for ordinary people so they know what they can expect from these cars.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    It's a funny thing. Every person or perhaps troll that includes the words "learn how to drive" in their comments doesn't seem to know what high altitude does to horsepower. Those words are like a neon flashing light that screams "Beware: ignorant comment ahead."

  • @rustysweater37
    @rustysweater37 12 лет назад +3

    how do you know which car your in?..."ones automatic"

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  11 лет назад

    Could be that you just pulled a random and completely wrong number out of a hat to prove your point. Why don't you visit our channel by clicking on our logo above and take a look at the likes and dislikes before you make another silly comment.

  • @papabeanguy
    @papabeanguy 8 лет назад +1

    are they made by the same company and the sold to toyota, Subaru,?

  • @smashbro5
    @smashbro5 12 лет назад

    Your point about the transmission is true, but it doesn't matter that they had a passenger. It was the same extra weight for both cars, so conditions were the same. Yes, it might throw off the "true" 0-60 time, but I think they were just trying to compare the two cars to each other.

  • @WhatIThinkNation
    @WhatIThinkNation 11 лет назад

    your videos are awesome, the bottom line is the FRS/BRZ etc are slow cars, not meant to be dragsters. I drive an ex35 and saw your video before buying it. Sea level or above sea level, the ex35 has an awesome punch leaving the light :)
    Great vids

  • @Borchert97
    @Borchert97 9 лет назад

    I'd rather get the Scion because on their website you can order it with several performance options, like intakes and air filters, exhaust, etc. Subaru doesn't give you those TRD options.

  • @MDKN22
    @MDKN22 11 лет назад

    Aww yeah!!! I got them both correct! Scion FR-S on right, and Subaru BRZ on left

  • @Texarmageddon
    @Texarmageddon 11 лет назад

    So simple addition seems to have left the minds of individuals today. Now I do applaud you for the civic vs sequoia comment, but let's look at a few things. I will use the EPA ratings only. BRZ/FRS has a 13.2G tank w/34 mpg. So maximum amount of miles it can travel is 450 miles. Your moms sequioa gets 18mpg w/26.4g tank. it can travel 475 miles. LX/EX civic gets 514 miles w/ 39mpg & 13.2g tank. Toyota Tundra gets 20mpg with 26.4g tank. It can go 528 miles. Hence, that's what im talking about.

  • @fatboy19831
    @fatboy19831 12 лет назад

    I wanted to see you try 2 stick cars. You would find the FRS would be slightly faster than the BRZ. The BRZ has slightly different engine mapping for better low end response at the expense of the maximum top end. You should turn traction control off. Both cars "feel" faster when all electronic nannies are turned off. There is a $1300 difference between the base BRZ and FRS. The Base BRZ has NAV and HID headlights standard. The FRS has 2 years free maintenance but no HID or NAV option.

  • @BloodHarvest21
    @BloodHarvest21 10 лет назад +1

    11 seconds??? My 12 year old 4400 pound toyota shaves 4 seconds off of that, does the altitude affect performance that much??

    • @vestern22
      @vestern22 10 лет назад

      I don't think so, they are two heavy guys in the car. the record for the car is 7.5 something at an altitude it matters but definitely not that much. A second or 2 may be but not 4 second difference

    • @zackscarborough6402
      @zackscarborough6402 8 лет назад +1

      +vestern22 6.1 seconds actually

  • @NathanDAdlen
    @NathanDAdlen 12 лет назад

    I tried launching using and not using the paddles. I did it with and without the sport selection, with and without the traction control, with and without the A/C on and so-on. The fastest way we found up here was letting the Subie select the gears, with the sport selection on its second setting with the A/C off. We only show a fraction of our testing that, apparently, wastes your time. Thanks for watching.

  • @MotoErgoSum
    @MotoErgoSum 11 лет назад

    I've got an auto BRZ Limited as shown in the video. You cannot launch it off the line fast without using the brake (baaad for torque converter and trans). However, about 8psi of boost down the road will make that difference disappear.

  • @gerardogh69
    @gerardogh69 11 лет назад

    Hello there The fast lane car. i am currently in High school and want to become a car test like you guys. so what are somethings you guys did to get there. or what do i need to do to become a car test driver?

  • @SCKevin_Adventure
    @SCKevin_Adventure 12 лет назад +6

    3:03 is when they test it...

  • @snoopdiego9
    @snoopdiego9 11 лет назад

    People that live in heavy trafficked cities. I'm going with manual with mine but people tell me and on other reviews that surprisingly with this car the automatic is just as fun to drive.

  • @Tinytacohead
    @Tinytacohead 12 лет назад

    15% of anything is still 15% and will show up on raw data no matter the hp or displacement. Also, not sure why ya removed your first comment, but for the butt-dyno it definitely matters what type of engine you've got. My first point still stands though.. They're checking times via GPS as well, which is going to be more accurate than the average person with a stopwatch and/or gauging times in their head.

  • @blackzacc
    @blackzacc 7 лет назад

    so is the toyota 86 the same as the frs? I see that a lot and I wanna know why people say theyre the same

  • @Garrffy
    @Garrffy 11 лет назад

    not only was it 1mile above altitude but they put 2 big guys into the car. The weight increase also slows down the time from 0-60

  • @stefan9876543
    @stefan9876543 12 лет назад

    You must have never driven a slow car with the AC on. I have to turn mine off on step hills because it sucks so much power. And it makes sense too. The engine is powering the compressor instead of the wheels. What else is gonna power the compressor?

  • @NathanDAdlen
    @NathanDAdlen 12 лет назад

    I tried manual about seven times and the car goes faster on its own. It's just that simple.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    Oops, you are the runner up.

  • @SR11105
    @SR11105 12 лет назад

    it actually depends on the transmission system's gear ratio and the engine as well.the 4U-GSE engine of FRS is not a high revving engine like the 4A-GE or honda's B18C with a 8600rpm redline. BRZ/FRS produces max horsepowr @7000rpm & max torque @6600rpm. to achieve the highest acceleration in these cars the driver has to shift just above 6600rpm so tht the next gear can get to work from 6000+rpm & the faster you shift,the less rpm you lose.thts why theres paddle shifters in high performance cars

  • @TheFlyingSnake
    @TheFlyingSnake 12 лет назад

    they are a mile above sea level so that affects engine performance. the 0-60 of these cars at sea level is i believe around 6 seconds.

  • @At9ra
    @At9ra 12 лет назад

    What I want to know is if there's a difference between INSURANCE payments..or cost of repair..

  • @laweezemorton8884
    @laweezemorton8884 10 лет назад

    Wy are these cars being tested at an altitude where very few people live?

  • @lfsracer79
    @lfsracer79 12 лет назад

    I would like to know how much the altitude affects the acceleration. Could you test a naturally aspirated car and a turbocharged/supercharged car the same way at sea level and at 1 mile above sea level? Maybe do 3 runs each time to get a good average.

  • @Grajjje
    @Grajjje 12 лет назад

    Hey Nathan and Roman, how do you think these cars will do against a 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T?

  • @FejjNagaf
    @FejjNagaf 12 лет назад

    Altitude just kills n/a cars. At sea level, these things are so much quicker. Good job Nathan and Roman. It's interesting to see what these cars actually pull at altitude. Is the base radio in the fr-s any good? Looks kind of junkie...

  • @sjorgji13
    @sjorgji13 11 лет назад

    I think there is something wrong here. I've checked many websites and they all say that the manual brz can do 0-60 in 6.1 secs and the automatic in 7.3. Does that 1 mile of altitude make that much of a difference?

  • @Noavaileblenames
    @Noavaileblenames 11 лет назад

    But is the horsepower of the abarth measured at the wheels or the crank? And how much does a 500 weigh opposed to the FRS/BRZ?

  • @danwat1234
    @danwat1234 12 лет назад

    With the auto, I think you fudged up that 0-60 test. I doubt that was full throttle at first. You should have floored it (engine at stall speed off the torque converter) then released the brakes and start the clock.

  • @oxSmoothxo
    @oxSmoothxo 11 лет назад

    Does the push button ignition still work for Manual Brz?
    or do u have to push the clutch in and then press the button?

  • @miself5709
    @miself5709 11 лет назад

    I'll be interested to see if you review one of these going up a snow covered hill with snow tires come winter! Good work guys!

  • @grandemage
    @grandemage 12 лет назад

    Wait, wouldn't turning traction control on limit initial speed to stop wheel spin? I'm not sure but if you're going to test speed it should be off I thought...

  • @lotusdiaries9629
    @lotusdiaries9629 7 лет назад +13

    My moms Ford Edge is faster than this...

    • @predaR6
      @predaR6 4 года назад +1

      Yeah they look so cool but so slow it sucks

  • @rianjerome
    @rianjerome 12 лет назад

    Did you guys at least test it on flat road at a normal altitude?

  • @manuelagrasferrer
    @manuelagrasferrer 12 лет назад

    Genesis is changing, now is not the slow car that all people know... Next gen will be awsome dude

  • @shadowstorm545
    @shadowstorm545 12 лет назад

    I have driven this car the manual one
    its an absolute delight
    The auto gearbox doesnt do justice to this car

  • @98MAzdaMilleniaS
    @98MAzdaMilleniaS 12 лет назад

    peak torque is at 6200 rpm too(so at that rpm its making only 152 hp), every 1000 feet above sea level you lose 3% of power. They are over 5,000 feet above sea level, so these cars are producing less then 170 hp...

  • @Texarmageddon
    @Texarmageddon 11 лет назад

    I didn't present to you a specific situation... I clearly stated,"most sport cars generally have a smaller tank than large trucks or suvs. I've already proven your mom's sequoia, a tundra, and F-150 will travel farther on a single tank of gas than a BRZ. This isn't about your grocery getting Civic.. The brz/frs has the best MPG rating of most sports cars and i just proved it would stop at a gas pump before your mom's car... what more do you want?

  • @jamesluksza
    @jamesluksza 12 лет назад

    u can turbo but you can only go up to 5psi boost because of the high compression so whats the point

  • @JohnL9013
    @JohnL9013 11 лет назад

    Look at a dyno graph of a turbo car and compare it to one from an NA car like the BRZ. Now integrate the area under the 2000 RPM you're going to be using at the high end...you'll see that turbo cars (gross generalization) give you more total power than a high revving NA in these kinds of tests.

  • @umaxen01
    @umaxen01 9 лет назад +1

    HELLO EVERYONE ! As a test, I will see how fast I can get my bike going in 11.8 seconds. I assume I can speed up to at LEAST 25 mph. I am 1/2 hp, 190 pounds and the bike is an additional 30 pounds. The total is 220 pounds with 1/2 hp. If you think about it, that's crazy efficient...

  • @idiot6891
    @idiot6891 6 лет назад

    WOW the frs is 2 seconds faster than a 2017 Mitsubishi Mirage!! This thing is a beast

  • @GoProGnome
    @GoProGnome 11 лет назад

    why leave the traction on? haven't seen any reviews where TC on ended up with faster 0-60 runs.

  • @Fabulist
    @Fabulist 11 лет назад

    This is true. My Ford 500 averages about 21 mpg in mixed driving. With an 18-gallon tank, that's 378 miles per tank. My Mercury Capri averages 33 mpg with an 11-gallon capacity for 363 miles per tank.
    I wonder if there's a small sporty car that has the ability to do better than 400 miles per tank. Does someone keep those stats online the way the 0-60 stats are tracked?

  • @rcking1991
    @rcking1991 12 лет назад

    Should have done the brake launch where you hold the brake for a few seconds and mash the gas then let go. Its like doing a test for the converter on the BRZ. Would have launched better and gotten better and/or beaten the FRS

  • @DoctaM3
    @DoctaM3 12 лет назад

    LOL.. pretty cool review on both the FR-S and BRZ. Not much difference eh? FOB, the "flavors" and nav... nice to see 6-speed.

  • @luisinhoens90
    @luisinhoens90 12 лет назад

    I'd take the Subaru anyday. It's more expensive but it also comes with more standard features than the Scion. I also have an issue with Scion: it's just an unknown brand outside the US and Canada.

  • @lejink
    @lejink 11 лет назад

    you are choosing between a lambo and a fr-s?

  • @csq678
    @csq678 11 лет назад

    Can you please show the 0-60 test right after the screen says 0-60 test? Just saying...

  • @luisinhoens90
    @luisinhoens90 12 лет назад

    Yes they are. But don't take the back seats seriously, they're very tight

  • @Darlemonte
    @Darlemonte 10 лет назад

    I agree with XileLord , you guys... big as hell, at a very poor location for speed are seriously posting a review of the cars 0-60?
    Please leave it to the guys who do this test in a more fair location... and a FAR less stressful weight limit holding the car back.
    When I saw your cars take off I FELT the car being held back my damn self.
    I hit 0-60 in less than half the time you guys hit it, and im stock!

  • @koltonmccallister6170
    @koltonmccallister6170 8 лет назад

    This is essentially a gt86? Not just a slow version of Toyotas new car right?

    • @sting2689
      @sting2689 8 лет назад

      +Kolton McCallister Same car, the Gt86 just isn't sold in the United States.

  • @HemiV8lyfe
    @HemiV8lyfe 11 лет назад

    i went to the scion dealer to check it out because the BRZ was unavailable at the the subaru dealer. the Scion is cheaper base, but when i opted for the other options i wanted in the BRZ (the nav, leather seats, spoiler) it was almost 29k.

  • @sportagus3
    @sportagus3 11 лет назад

    We've each presented a specific situation. Find me the average tank size and mileage of an SUV and compare it to the average tank size and mileage of a 4 cylinder and I'll agree with you. Insults doesn't make your argument any more valid by the way.

  • @SirtubalotTX
    @SirtubalotTX 12 лет назад

    Actually, not all cars are slower at altitude. Turbocharged vehicles for example, (With proper tuning) can compensate for altitude, on boost of course)

  • @FactorGp
    @FactorGp 11 лет назад

    Can the headlights on the FR-S be interchangeable with the BRZ headlights?

  • @MemphisMojo15s
    @MemphisMojo15s 11 лет назад +1

    A 200lb person in this car alone at a lower elevation will turn far better results in these cars. Manufactures claim sub 6 second runs.

  • @toyota420xp
    @toyota420xp 12 лет назад

    scion is pure pricing so no negotiation on prices so im assuming the price will come out similarly

  • @phtmexplo
    @phtmexplo 12 лет назад

    Toyota owns Scion (Scion FR-S will only be available in America, rest of the world gets the Toyota GT86), so FR-S and GT86 are more or less the same. GT86 has more options tough (like keyless entry, nicer climat controls, toughscreen headunit with navsat, aeropack option, etc..)
    Toyota made this car together with Subaru (Subaru makes the same car and is called Subaru BRZ).

  • @lordzy90
    @lordzy90 11 лет назад

    you guys got to think... those dudes together are at LEAST 180 extra kilos which makes a huge difference in a car that uses its weight to its advantage (plus - you need torque to pull more weight, something this car unfortunately lacks)

  • @WimTheInstigator
    @WimTheInstigator 12 лет назад

    u guys manage to get to 60mph almost 3 seconds slower than its supposed to go? high altitude wont affect it that much

  • @armandoreyes6531
    @armandoreyes6531 10 лет назад

    Control and sound when changing gears on a manual, will always be better than auto, no matter the car.

  • @v12symphony
    @v12symphony 12 лет назад

    for what you're paying it's not bad already... although the altitude and weight probably added a good 2 seconds to the time... as well as traction control was on, I don't think it's a fair test... if you launched the car instead of just easing the clutch there's another difference too... I mean if you drove a porsche boxster S a pretty flat 5 second car the same way and in the same conditions you'll probably end up near 7 seconds

  • @NathanDAdlen
    @NathanDAdlen 12 лет назад

    We don't live at low elevation like Michigan. Up here, air density makes a difference. Tell you what? Try one out and let us know your results. Not on your Xbox and not based on a magazine. Try one near your MI home with someone holding a camera on you and post it here. Let's see what your results are.

  • @GriffXJ
    @GriffXJ 11 лет назад

    Less dense air which is found at higher altitude is less efficient in providing air to the engine...so the engine is effectively getting less air than it would at sea level.

  • @TFLcar
    @TFLcar  12 лет назад

    Check it out for yourself. We reviewed the Coupe here: watch?v=5yHQ74lHuzg

  • @georgepatton8693
    @georgepatton8693 11 лет назад

    okay, so at 1 mile above sea level the brz/frs would only be making about 168 hp, but that's still more than say, a 500 abarth which has 160 hp and a zero to sixty time of 7.7
    Maybe the loss of horsepower is greater, but maybe you shouldn't both be in the car at time time of testing

  • @InvictusAu
    @InvictusAu 11 лет назад

    1: Other testers have achieved 7.5 seconds in the BRZ. This is slow due to low atmospheric pressure at 1 mile above sealevel.
    2: Straightline acceleration is not the point of these cars at all. If you care, don't buy one. This car will annihilate anything on the twisties at anywhere near the same price.

  • @Torres1one
    @Torres1one 11 лет назад

    In 2008 Toyota bought 16.5% of Fuji Heavy Industries, parent to Subaru.[3] Toyota, led by project leader Tetsuya Tada, offered Subaru involvement in their sport coupé project

  • @chipped
    @chipped 10 лет назад

    Didn't he launch each one different? He could launched the Auto harder like he did with the manual.

  • @ksearles85
    @ksearles85 12 лет назад

    To be honest I'm pretty cut about it ... I was really hoping the fun factor would outweigh the lack of power ... think I'm going back to bigger capacity "sports cars" ..