Highlights coming soon (spotify live in description)! Join the discord to know when ep2 is coming (and ask questions/suggest topics for future shows) ►► discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
This is why we need FRESH TBC REALMS so badly.. Imagine people bringing in 300k gold and 20+ proffs alts to tbc on day one, you just need like 2-3 of these guys to control a whole server / economy. Please Blizzard give us a couple fresh servers per region there is a ton more desire for it then most people think! Even in the original TBC release there were 20 extra fresh servers.
Melee stack theory seems solid but why no boomkin for improved faerie fire seems like reducing the hit requirements for all those classes by 3% would be extremely valuable.
The level 1-58 grind allows for Blizzard systems and players to find and report bots. By giving them a free 58 boost you disable this as an option to stop botting.
People can report level 58 bots as equally as level 0 bots. Bots are bots regardless of what level they are at. Could you explain how these systems would be any different based on level?
It doesnt take a genius to understand that by removing the barrier of entry which in this case is leveling itself, you are removing the dangerous part in the journey of a botter which is playing in the open world and being exposed to others. Cant tell how many times me or friends have reported a leveling bot that got banned afterwards. Meanwhile for months im seeing the same guildless rogues or mages being 24/7 online in strat/brd. It would be more productive of you to start contributing with some valid points or suggestions to the problem instead of repeating useless trap questions on every comment about the 58 boost.
@@misterJ420 lmao hey bud they still have to level to 70 and can just as easily be caught in that process where guess what? They are in the open world stop trying to be an elitist and use your brain.
@@misterJ420 But it does take manners to discuss things. I have no interest in talking to someone whos gonna be a dick instead of discussing things appropriately. I was looking for a discussion, you were looking to talk down to people about things you have clearly only thought about from one side.
I always looked at the gold situation the opposite way. If im new I can farm mats that are worth a ton now & lazy people are gonna buy it. Removing world buffs & super expensive pots will alleviate the need to GDKP constantly. Flasks wont be gated so much since the Lotus can drop off anything. The token argument is always the same, people are right that it can make things seem pay to progress, but if people are just buying black market gold, what really is the difference. Same with the 58 boost, is it really any different than paying a mage to boost you to 58. If Blizz came out and said, the boost & tokens paid for more staff to make the changes we want & do better I'd be happy, but we'd never get that kind of transparency from Blizz.
Inflated economies suck in real life, and thats generally the perspective that governs people looking at the game - except it works both ways in this. If Linen is 2g a stack, that means a brand new player is already earning money in accordance with the inflated economy. No-one seems to look at it this way, though. Its also a very small amount of people who have tons of wealth, and we generally hear from those. Most people go day to day, so don't worry about it too much. An inflated economy isn't great, don't get me wrong - It might suck that I have to pay 100g+ for a flask. .but if i make one, I'm also selling it for 100g+. It's not ideal but at least in WoW theres a bit more give to the system. The items that are overpriced are also what bring that income. There isnt much blizzard can do to address it that wont literally take away peoples stuff, which is never really an option.
I think the reason you both feel the same way about boosts/leveling process is because you both are looking at it from a very end-game/sweaty raider perspective. Much of the playerbase is just a more casual type of player, who enjoys the leveling process and wants to play the game normally. While I do have 2 characters that I raid on 4 nights a week, myself and many of my guildies are planning on leveling some blood elves from scratch, and just taking it slow and enjoying ourselves with no concrete plans for endgame raiding for them. For many people, the 1-60 journey is half the fun of WoW.
The problem is that boosts are designed to try keep the entry of new players/casual players into the game. While you may enjoy that 1-60 process, it’s been proven that a lot of casual players don’t and they quit long before as the game gets deeper and levels increase. So without boosts the low end game dies regardless (as it does in every advanced aged mmo) as the player base becomes more top heavy AND you still have the issue of a lack of new players coming in to be recruited into guilds. So boosts at least helps with 1 of the 2 issues. Sweaty raiders are actually the least helped by the boost because sweaty guilds poach players from the lower tier guilds. Boosts actually aid the casual player base more by bringing in new recruits to be recruited into the less hardcore guilds. The safe truth is without boosts a lot of the casual players wanting to come back do not make it to outlands for the 60-70 leveling process.
''Much of the playerbase ... enjoys the leveling process and wants to play the game normally.'' That couldn't be further away from the truth. I haven't met a single person on Classic, casual or not, who have told me they can't wait to go through leveling again once they've leveled their main to 60. It is tedious and repetitive. Why do you think boosting is so popular? Experiencing the game and leveling for the first time is amazing, but we're 15 years later now.
@@RestlessTome 100% idk what these people are going on about. And it's not like the boosts can be abused it can literally only be used once then they would have to level their next too. I think people are making a way bigger deal to this than it needs to be
I think the difference between classic and retail is all the little pains in the ass. Every single one of them that makes the game less accessible also makes it special and memorable.
Really liked this video! Issue with WoW Tokens is the impact on farming, and resources. If people can just pay for a Token, they won't farm, they'll just buy what they need. Less supply, more demand, higher prices. Maybe I'm over estimating the amount of people will to pay, what, £17 on a WoW Token for like maybe 2k gold. In Retail, the auction house is cross faction, and for grouped servers, it's cross realm. Meaning even with the WoW Token, there're enough resource to populate the auction house. Mainly through bots, and passive gathering. Maybe this is just my experience. As for World Buffs. You can't play your character for a portion of the week if you get them to day before, and raid two days a week. Meaning 4 days out of the week, your main is unplayable either because you're saving world buffs, or having to spend an hour, two hours gathering then. Whether that be farming echos, or the mats for the Blast Lands buffs. I personally don't like the fact that a HUGE part of my characters power, comes through temporary buffs.
BWL released for NA servers on Feb 14, 2020. I remember because one of our officers had to miss our first raid due to Valentine’s Day and it prompted one of our very first “how hardcore do we wanna be about this game?” discussions. Edit - maybe it was the Tuesday before the 14th actually
Getting rid of profession dropping doesn't get rid of min maxing. It just changes the window. And in terms of grind we look back on fondly, I think a lot of them are ones done as a group. Dropping a profession and ah leveling it is just some mind numbing solo grind that sucks.
Why would other people boosting ruin things for you? There are already max level players, people with alts(with max professions), people with gold cap. How could introducing boosts make any real impact?
Cause its destroying the organic feeling of a MMORPG World by just letting people surpass the barrier of entry and giving instant gratification. Im not even gonna touch the subject of economy and professions and how abusable it is. Having boosts means less people will be out leveling in the world and most of the people who use the boost as their first and only char are gonna quit during the first months cause they have no connection to their character. In the end everybody has a bad experience.
You guys should talk with Kevin Jordan about this and invite him to the podcast. He's an OG wow dev and he has some insightful thoughts about the boost, tokens and so on.
Easy gold sink, allow dye slots or alt coloring on Tier sets. No stat bonus, just looks different and make it a high buy in. Easy enough to bring some gold out without making it pay to win.
Why wouldn’t people be farming low level mats? If most people are anti boost then those people will farm mats as they level their fresh characters. If there’s nobody farming it at all, the price goes up due to demand being higher, causing people to farm it.
my idea for world buffs: You collect items for old raids (they drop for everyone in the raid), you combine this with items gathered in the world (BoP items from contested areas) and create buff items like ROIDs or Zanza consumes. You then use these consume when you get to the raid. You lose the buffs when you die, and maybe they have two charges. But you can only get the consumes once or twice per week. This 1) Creates consequences for death in raids and makes it feel a little more hardcore, 2) Makes players raid old content throughout the expansion which is good for new players, 3) forces players to go into the open world (pvp), 4) Doesn't make you buff log on your main, 5) gets rid of dispel griefing while still promoting actual pvp
did the announcement talk about dmf though? I haven't found a confirmation there because the world buffs not working above 63 was already part of the game before but we're not sure it applied to dmf
@@ClassicRoguecraft They specifically said DMF wont work. You wouldn't want it to anyways, because in tbc they made the buff 1-10% random. You would spend all week trying to get a high roll from the DMF. It would be an absolute disaster.
the issue with world buffs, is the stress of death in raid. For top guilds its not as much of a worry but for most guilds the stress of "dmf" week and losing your buffs due to other players actions to a lot of tension between your raid members. A lot harder to brush off a death when you lose 300 dps for the rest of the raid and any dream of parsing is gone on an individual level
If you want to know how the many unintended consequences of the 58 boost are hurting the game badly long term, I suggest you watch MadSeason's "Ballad of the Level Boost" video. Highly thought out and in-depth analysis of both the good and bad.
I watched it, it’s solid for explaining the point of view against boosts, but I feel it makes a lot of unconfirmed assumptions on the stats behind things (such as why WoW sub numbers declined)
It’s a fundamental problem to add boosts to the game. TBC isn’t coming out for a couple months, plenty of time to level. If you don’t enjoy leveling... you don’t enjoy the game
i think they should do a unannounced gold cap. don’t tell anyone until tbc launches and then just delete anything over a certain amount on one account. could even make it something crazy like 50k cap. i bet even at that high of an amount they would delete enormous amounts of gold.
@@eryxviper because it prevents ppl from doing work arounds like consolidating all their gold into items and other things to prevent from losing the money. it may not be 100% effective but it would eliminate a large percentage of the gold in game.
because unlike the us government i understand what happens when you have too much currency in circulation. ppl have been printing money on classic wow for over a year now and erasing some of that money will have positive effects on the servers and will def help the casuals a lot.
So by Zirene's logic related to drums why don't they just get rid of the enchanting requirement to get the ring enchants instead of the LW requirement for drums. Why don't they just homogenize every profession to the point where they don't matter like retail.
Love classic wow love classic EQ all the way up to velious I still come. Back for every TLP I have woken the sleeper now 9 times! I missed the newest TLP due to the gates opening in Wow classic had to do SL but I plan to do it again this March 19th!
There is some extremely satisfying about listening to two experienced people talk with original thoughts. The amount of parroted information being spammed to RUclips is staggering, and it was extremely refreshing to get an insight into how you guys are going to be approaching TBC as opposed to how to copy someone else. My only suggestion would be work on the thumbnail for the videos. I was extremely close to passing this one up, but I am glad I didn’t. Please keep this going.
Also maybe tonreduce min/maxing with professions and keep character identity they make things like the ring enchants require you to have the 375 skill in order to benefit. This way choosing a profession actually means something and makes them unique
He lost me on the dual spec part. He wants personal class identity, but also knows he is not effected by the gold. Not to mention there are specs that are useless for fights, like prot pally on vash. Sitting people instead of an out of combat button press and making their class identity being a barrier to experience content is selfish to those who can show up to all fights or are not effected by the gold cost.
NO...WAY. You can get someone banned, by entering in their character name into the gold selling site, and buy *them* gold? Well isn't that fascinating.
Real money trading started for me in Ultima Online. This was the wild west cause there was no ToS to stop it. We sold accounts, gold, items, rares, real estate and more. I think Everquest was the first to legally stop this via ToS. And dude... Why do you have to use Bob as your example? I mean it should totally be Frank... right? All Bobs played Classic, Franks did not. Just sayin
@Zirene and @Sno I can understand the death of the game b/c of a lack of new recruits and the need for people to be able to effectively level. I know lvl 58 boosts would be a way to help enable that, however, what if there was another option. what if they added zone buffs to players not max level. If there are not more than x threshold of people within +/- y#lvl of you in this zone you gain + Z% xp bonus and make that % increase or is based on the population near your lvl in that zone. when leveling zones are dead except for people farming, you might gain a 100% xp boost for example. Or you could reward party situations while partied with 1-5 people you gain increasing amounts of xp for turning in quests. it would reward people for leveling together inside and outside of dungeons, and the quest example could also encourage people to not only do quest lines to open up dungeon quests but to form groups to do them and reap the xp gains from that. it would nerf gold boosting services if the gains were enough to challenge the gains potentially net from buying boosting services from other players, this would also force people to play their class and learn the mechanics of their class so you actually get people who know how to play at the higher levels instead of people who cant play and paid for boosts. This can introduce a whole new world of shit to deal with like account sharing but thats also against TOS and can snuff accounts out as well for that. But, i think a lot of players will not want to share their account information in order to have other people level for them.
I don't see the difference between doing this and just allowing people to boost a toon to 58. That is essentially how retail does it with the xtra xp at lower levels.
@@skeletalarkeus5728 the difference is this is a way blizzard can fix their own game w/out turning it into pay to win which WILL turn away players, i'm not against people getting 1. i am against them not working to fix the problem in general... provinding a pay service to blizzard so u can get ez 58's is stupid. i'd honestly rather see the institution of tokens over pay to boost services. if there is a token system, people who want to boost their characters will stimulate the boosting comunity from low lvl to high lvl which is a small community compared to everyone else playing but, i'd rather see that than a bunch of 58's who cant play. + i'd rather they make it so people level their characters on their own and its not a major headache. They could also make zone 'goals' like after x quests in a zone you gain a bonus xp worth like 1 or 2 levels or something to encourage people to stay in the zone just to finish it out instead of moving on with my original idea. Point is, the problem is making the leveling experience one that people want to do over spending their real money to get a toon they dont know how to play to a high level and then infect the high level community with a bunch of people who cant play well at all.
You can gold cap things and make everything in peoples banks and mail soulbound, that way stockpiling materials will have their merrit, but economy isnt fucked tbh.
As a player who is against boosts. 1. This helps bots. They can make a character and start farming ZG or BRD for raw gold with far less effort. You have to see a player to report them, so at 58 they are instanced the whole time, either getting a boost or farming. They can do this without "paying" for it a legit way. Wow tokens from retail can be redeemed for Blizzard acct balance. Paying for the sub on any of their accounts. Paying for the boosts. 2. If a player doesn't like classic enough to level, they won't stay for TBC. TBC is just more of classic and players have time to start characters right now. Anyone who is waiting for a boost isn't going to be retained and therefore shouldn't be represented as part of the community. Even a 1 time boost can make characters who did earn their characters FEEL bad and can dissuade players from leveling at all. (My friends were actually leveling when TBC was announced, then they announced the boosts and they felt drained and stopped. Saying "why should we when other people are just gonna pay for it" ) Also you can character transfer between wow accounts on your Blizzard account so 1 per wow account doesn't mean anything. 3. "Mages boost people in game all the time" Yeah they sure do. But guess what. It takes time It takes gold Not all players buy gold and not all players buy boosts. And some players farm with their main to boosts their alts. Why should this be considered a good reason for a free lvl 58 character? Mages selling boosts still require people to play the game. And fits into a player driven economy. And would exist now even if gold buying wasn't an issue. 4. Everyone who has a platform has a skewed perspective. The game isn't only about content at max level. The whole leveling process is just as much OF THE GAME as max lvl pvp or raids. 5. Your average player doesn't give a crap about gold caps or the economy. But diminishing real time spent does push people away. People didn't want to play retail, that's why they are playing classic in the first place. And this change to help these imaginary new players, doesn't help the game and will only serve to hurt it. Enjoy my hot take. Won't be answering any comments
I mean according to your logic your friends are the type of players who aren't going to stick around otherwise why the fuck would they care if someone else boosted a character? People stopped playing retail because of the lack of community due to the whole lfg system not because people could buy gold from blizzard instead of black markets or boost characters.
Enjoyed the podcast. Dont know much about you or how heavily involved you are with the speed running community but is that the main perspective you plan to keep in the future or do you plan to bring in more normal raiding perspectives whether they are hardcore or casual. Because I don't really think being a hardcore raider necessarily means being a speed runner.
It'll be a bit of everything. I raid in both a semi hardcore/casual guild as well as my Progress toon and zirene is in US world top speedrun guild so we have a fairly varied bunch of raids between us. I try to be balanced as far as point of views go, that's why i like zirene as co-host, he's also open minded as far as trying to see things from not just his own perspective.
How can Zirene before GDKP where people buy gold and use it to gain items and in doing so spreads the pay to win to 39 other players.... yet the token is more pay to win? To me the token is the same thing as having that one guy in the GDKP who swipes his credit card.
Sad to see people defending this blatant cash grab that undermines Classic’s integrity/philosophy. This endgame only mentality is a plague on the genre. Very disappointed.
Tax players upon moving to TBC. Dont tell people ahead of time so they cant buy up the whole AH. 5% Tax: 0-5,000g ( -250g max) 15% tax: 5,000-20,000g ( -2,250g max) 40% tax: 20,000-100,000 ( -32,000g max) 75% tax: 100,000+ ( if someone has 1m gold = -675,000g leaving them well over 200k gold). If you're upset with this then you're the .01% of players who it would affect. Personally I would fall under the 15% tax bracket. The reason everyone should want this is because of all the Bots that are hording gold to sell would get fucked. The majority of players wouldn't really notice the hit. Even if I had 1m gold I would be for this just to screw over gold sellers.
Yep, "you're allowed to be super toxic and ruin other people's experiences". I get his point, it makes the world feel alive with risks, but raid logging is not a "real world full of risks" it's stupid.
Zirene is basing his melee raid comp on the knowledge that Warriors are, RIGHT NOW, still pretty powerful without world buffs. This isn't true at level 70 with Outland gear; not until T6.
Not really. I'm basing it on the fact that Warriors are high dps without world buffs too and their throughput requires no standing still so they can move while killing and don't have mana condtraints at all. In speed running, movement and kill times are both relevant.
@@lenin2457 yeah TBC is definitely not that melee friendly with their mechanics but on things like endless everything has WAY more hp on purpose so you experience non-melee mechanics more often in a fight since it'll be longer. E.g. Sapphiron isn't that melee friendly during air phase, but because of cooldowns and coordination you burn it past all that during the windows you CAN use melee. At the end of the day we won't know and upon tweaking the comp more and more I feel like another hunter is better than some of the furies but we'll see really. It's a hypothesis with no way to test it at the moment except archaic knowledge, and giga buffed versions of the game we have access to.
@37:55 "if you are rich in real life, you deserve to be rich in game." This is a very flawed idea, if we unpack it. In real life, nobody is REQUIRED to provide a product or service just because you have the money to pay it. The WoW community has every right to reject the influence of outside money on the game, just as we would not be required to permit a rich person to hire Derek Jeter to win their local softball league. Money is only a peaceful means of exchange when agreements are made voluntarily. Otherwise, it is an abstraction of force. Rich people are entitled to the rewards their money can buy, but they are not entitled to unilaterally declare what rewards we will choose to offer them.
If you boost to 58 what kind of gear do you get. I know level 58 blues but you should pick your gear I mean depending on spec if gear is random you might get horrible gear
Probably same way as in retail you pick your spec prior to the boost and it gives you a basic set they would probably create specifically for boosted toons based on your spec
Can just anyone do GDKP? Or do you need to be a whale to join a raid and a good guild to run one? I feel like I would like to GDKP because I like raiding and I like gold.
Because Alliance racial of Expertise for Humans is relevant for both Parry and Dodge when tanking, dwarf stoneform armor racial and them getting seal of blood means blood elves bring nothing to PvE that assists them more than a Human or Dwarf does. Unless there is an AoE pull that requires you to silence a bunch of mobs to group them - Alliance prot and ret paladin will be slightly better racial wise.
@@aidanmoon3353 When it comes to the best mitigation paladin tank race, Stoneform pales in comparison to the fact that Horde , can get Razorhide. Also, highly doubt Alliance Ret Human Paladin will be the best Ret Race since almost an entire Horde raid comp has the chance to go Orc/Troll for overall increased raid DPS leading to faster kill times.
@@Caperfin The entire raid comp doing more dps doesn't make your race better. That's like saying Night Elf Shadow Priest is the best Shadow Priest Race in Classic because Alliance raids do more DPS. Your parse may be higher because your overall raid damage is high, but it doesn't mean your racial is better. As for Stoneform, that's just a tiny example of how blood elves will make the worst paladins for PvE. They're still best in PvP for sure. But their racials don't get them anything in PvE as useful as all the other Paladin races do sadly. Stoneform is incredibly minor but Dwarf is literally a minor step up from Belf, but still a step up is a step up. Razorhide is a 10 minute buff and absolutely, it's good. But the times you use prot paladins to their fullest is in the middle of SCC, Hyjal, later in black temple than the sewers and entrance, and on Felmyst and M'uru which are way more than 10 minutes in. Overall matters here, and it's why I personally rank Draenei really high for prot paladin alongside Human. The 1% hit they give and the ability to give themself a HoT pre-pull for more threat is valuable. Expertise is also something you WANT to softcap on ALL melee classes, ESPECIALLY TANKS - to remove dodges from the table and it also affects parries so it's SUPER valuable for tanks.
I've been playing classic for a while and have a friend who is new to WoW and he leveled on retail to like 30 but he would probably play TBC with the boost
I’ve saved 15k gold by spending allot of time farming lotus, it’s not allot of gold, but i worked for it. I feel like if they reset the gold, bots will still be in the game. It’ll end up the same
Thank you! From a 30 something year old family dad that has 1,5 hours average time to game per day thank you so much for getting behind the lvl 58 boost
Boosting is targeted towards new players. If they didn’t enjoy Classic, how will they enjoy TBC. The majority of players boosting will not stick to the game. All of us that are already playing will just buy the boost, because convenience. Also botters, they get wow subs for a third of the price. The people that benefit the most from this (other than Blizzard) are botters.
Maaaaan this is bs, all Blizzard would have to do is hire 100-500 Gms that literally ONLY hunt for bots , ( teleporting in dungeons, watching toons that were online for x amount of time. Watch all the popular nodes in the world and dungeon boosters that only say yes sir and yes ..... its literally THAT fucking easy. THATS how you deal with bots. Why in the hell would you want to put a gold cap and fuck over all the actual decent players that farm gold. How about blizzard use 1% of their fucking MULTI BILLIONS $$$ company to hire GMs and solve the bot problem in literally a fucking week. And dont try and say "oh its not that simple" because it literally is ....
It's great to listen to the analysis of people that have clearly put in the effort to think through some of these issues objectively! By hearing some of the knee-jerk hot takes out there, you can tell populism is a thing in gaming just as much as in some political environments. WoW Token: Most of the people against the token are themselves buying gold. They just don't want others to have access to gold as well in order to maintain the advantage of doing so illegally (i.e. dadgamers/more casual gamers won't be as compelled to buy illegal gold and they don't want this competition). WoW Token, although philosophically feels bad, is necessary and compatible with the gaming communities we have these days where people have more money than time and want fast results. Token > Illegal gold for the health of the game. It's a necessary evil. The way to avoid Pay 2 Win is for the strongest items in the game to be difficult to obtain regardless of how much gold you have. Will people be able to buy glaives? Absolutely. Illidan is easy enough that you can boost buyers. But it's definitely a lot harder to do than boosting Gressil buyers in Naxx, for example, so there'll be a lot less of it. The boost: This is good for the health of the game, as it removes a barrier for new players to join that is really more psychological than amount of time or effort to get it. One thing is a 58 boost in Classic, and another is in TBC. Just like the token, most of the people that hate it are the same people that are i) buying dungeon boosts on all their new alts, and ii) put in the 'effort' to level a bunch of characters during classic to achieve an advantage in TBC, and now will have that advantage dilluted. Release timings: Naxx release during Christmas break and Shadowlands release made no sense at all, and with a bit of tinfoil was perhaps an experiment to see how players would distribute if given the option of a retail expansion. Classic having survived this, I think the approach going forward will be to balance content releases between Classic and Retail to smooth out their revenue streams. Speedrunning and world buffs in TBC: DMF being allowed in raids to promote speedrunning would be great for the game. It's just one buff, and it maintains a bit of the special environment and higher stakes around the Circus in a more pallatable manner. Drums nerf: 90% of people agree on this. It's obnoxious, it's not fun. Why would we want something that is is almost unanimously not fun? There's minmaxing that is interesting and minmaxing that is uninteresting and hurts the game. Leatherworking meta is the latter. Zirene is right, there's nothing special about the re-leveling even amongst avid minmaxers. There is a common thread among the topics discussed where people want to gatekeep others arbitrarily rather than focusing on their playing ability. This is a bad habit that comes from some of the private server communities. Faction balance: Community perception is more important at this point than the actual numbers. Horde is better, but when you do the math it's not an amount where it's worth rerolling horde. Seal sharing, while if you do the math on the raid dps is negligible, is huge in making ways towards community perception and will avoid a lot of guild rerolls. Warglaive prio meme topic: I'm a huge rogue fan and I played one in a top guild in original TBC and it's sad to see they're considered the redheaded stepchild in the predicted meta. But this is not going to be about the class. It's going to be about your best player. And since Classic has shifted dps perspective from boss damage to overall damage, I think people are hugely sleeping on fury at the moment. This leads to the next point.. TBC bis composition: People need to chill the hell out on what they think is the bis comp until they've actually played the game. As a former hardcore TBC player, there are WAY too many people talking about things they don't have experience in. The private server bis comps are built to progress extremely overtuned bosses that overly punish melee and don't account for plowing through trash. So again, fully agree with Zirene here: A) If you're a top guild, you'll need to figure out the comp as you play and you'll have people with multiple chars to do that anyway. B) If you're not a top guild, take care in copying what others do. Class design is very good in TBC and there aren't meme specs as such as they were in classic where your raid is taxed, so focus on the player not the class and balance your raid :)
Yep, it’ll be on the highlights page when it’s up but if you want it right now I posted it in the discord too, in the podcast discussion channel. Just keep in mind it’s all theorycrafting, we have no idea if that roster will actually be workable/doable until we get there and try stuff out
It's cute that you guys think Activision cares about your experience. When the AQ gate event was live, they were 10 days late starting the auto complete function, after repeatedly lying to players. They only took action after IGN wrote a scathing article. Let that sink in... they couldn't be bothered to make sure that the single largest quest event in the history of MMOs went according to a plan that hasn't been changed in 15 years. If your fun in the game depends upon them caring, you're playing the wrong game.
I'd debate League of Legends not being shit.... no 2 factor authentication for the longest time and a forced stale meta.... Its like saying gangam style is the epitome of music.
for the love of god just let the world buffs drop like in china at this point. pick a different time frame if ya like. Anyway, thanks for the video Sno. Good talk.
Highlights coming soon (spotify live in description)! Join the discord to know when ep2 is coming (and ask questions/suggest topics for future shows) ►► discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
Appreciate that you put the time into timestamping the various topics!
Yes I agree
indd ty!
"Who hates world buffs?" ..... literally 99% of the playerbase...
I knew zirene was playing wow since release but I was still surprised :D
This is why we need FRESH TBC REALMS so badly.. Imagine people bringing in 300k gold and 20+ proffs alts to tbc on day one, you just need like 2-3 of these guys to control a whole server / economy. Please Blizzard give us a couple fresh servers per region there is a ton more desire for it then most people think! Even in the original TBC release there were 20 extra fresh servers.
Yea I want fresh pretty bad man
Melee stack theory seems solid but why no boomkin for improved faerie fire seems like reducing the hit requirements for all those classes by 3% would be extremely valuable.
The level 1-58 grind allows for Blizzard systems and players to find and report bots. By giving them a free 58 boost you disable this as an option to stop botting.
People can report level 58 bots as equally as level 0 bots. Bots are bots regardless of what level they are at. Could you explain how these systems would be any different based on level?
It doesnt take a genius to understand that by removing the barrier of entry which in this case is leveling itself, you are removing the dangerous part in the journey of a botter which is playing in the open world and being exposed to others.
Cant tell how many times me or friends have reported a leveling bot that got banned afterwards. Meanwhile for months im seeing the same guildless rogues or mages being 24/7 online in strat/brd. It would be more productive of you to start contributing with some valid points or suggestions to the problem instead of repeating useless trap questions on every comment about the 58 boost.
@@misterJ420 lmao hey bud they still have to level to 70 and can just as easily be caught in that process where guess what? They are in the open world stop trying to be an elitist and use your brain.
@@misterJ420 But it does take manners to discuss things. I have no interest in talking to someone whos gonna be a dick instead of discussing things appropriately. I was looking for a discussion, you were looking to talk down to people about things you have clearly only thought about from one side.
I always looked at the gold situation the opposite way. If im new I can farm mats that are worth a ton now & lazy people are gonna buy it. Removing world buffs & super expensive pots will alleviate the need to GDKP constantly. Flasks wont be gated so much since the Lotus can drop off anything. The token argument is always the same, people are right that it can make things seem pay to progress, but if people are just buying black market gold, what really is the difference. Same with the 58 boost, is it really any different than paying a mage to boost you to 58. If Blizz came out and said, the boost & tokens paid for more staff to make the changes we want & do better I'd be happy, but we'd never get that kind of transparency from Blizz.
Me: farming months to get 5k gold, them: i run naxx 1 day. Wow this is making me want to quit tbc before it coming out.
Inflated economies suck in real life, and thats generally the perspective that governs people looking at the game - except it works both ways in this. If Linen is 2g a stack, that means a brand new player is already earning money in accordance with the inflated economy. No-one seems to look at it this way, though. Its also a very small amount of people who have tons of wealth, and we generally hear from those. Most people go day to day, so don't worry about it too much.
An inflated economy isn't great, don't get me wrong - It might suck that I have to pay 100g+ for a flask. .but if i make one, I'm also selling it for 100g+. It's not ideal but at least in WoW theres a bit more give to the system. The items that are overpriced are also what bring that income.
There isnt much blizzard can do to address it that wont literally take away peoples stuff, which is never really an option.
@@Arenumberg Thank you for bringing up these points
If Blizzard actually banned bots I don't think as many people would care about the lvl 58 boost.
I make my video about Fury Warrior still being good in TBC and get ragged on hard, this guy is going the full beans and running 5 of them... My man!
I think the reason you both feel the same way about boosts/leveling process is because you both are looking at it from a very end-game/sweaty raider perspective. Much of the playerbase is just a more casual type of player, who enjoys the leveling process and wants to play the game normally.
While I do have 2 characters that I raid on 4 nights a week, myself and many of my guildies are planning on leveling some blood elves from scratch, and just taking it slow and enjoying ourselves with no concrete plans for endgame raiding for them. For many people, the 1-60 journey is half the fun of WoW.
The problem is that boosts are designed to try keep the entry of new players/casual players into the game. While you may enjoy that 1-60 process, it’s been proven that a lot of casual players don’t and they quit long before as the game gets deeper and levels increase.
So without boosts the low end game dies regardless (as it does in every advanced aged mmo) as the player base becomes more top heavy AND you still have the issue of a lack of new players coming in to be recruited into guilds. So boosts at least helps with 1 of the 2 issues.
Sweaty raiders are actually the least helped by the boost because sweaty guilds poach players from the lower tier guilds. Boosts actually aid the casual player base more by bringing in new recruits to be recruited into the less hardcore guilds.
The safe truth is without boosts a lot of the casual players wanting to come back do not make it to outlands for the 60-70 leveling process.
''Much of the playerbase ... enjoys the leveling process and wants to play the game normally.'' That couldn't be further away from the truth. I haven't met a single person on Classic, casual or not, who have told me they can't wait to go through leveling again once they've leveled their main to 60. It is tedious and repetitive. Why do you think boosting is so popular? Experiencing the game and leveling for the first time is amazing, but we're 15 years later now.
@@RestlessTome 100% idk what these people are going on about. And it's not like the boosts can be abused it can literally only be used once then they would have to level their next too. I think people are making a way bigger deal to this than it needs to be
I think the difference between classic and retail is all the little pains in the ass. Every single one of them that makes the game less accessible also makes it special and memorable.
Nerfing and terminating boosting is a better solution than making it more accecible and conceding it. It breaks the rpg in mmorpg
Really liked this video!
Issue with WoW Tokens is the impact on farming, and resources. If people can just pay for a Token, they won't farm, they'll just buy what they need. Less supply, more demand, higher prices. Maybe I'm over estimating the amount of people will to pay, what, £17 on a WoW Token for like maybe 2k gold.
In Retail, the auction house is cross faction, and for grouped servers, it's cross realm. Meaning even with the WoW Token, there're enough resource to populate the auction house. Mainly through bots, and passive gathering. Maybe this is just my experience.
As for World Buffs. You can't play your character for a portion of the week if you get them to day before, and raid two days a week. Meaning 4 days out of the week, your main is unplayable either because you're saving world buffs, or having to spend an hour, two hours gathering then. Whether that be farming echos, or the mats for the Blast Lands buffs.
I personally don't like the fact that a HUGE part of my characters power, comes through temporary buffs.
Dude that story about IGE and EverQuest is crazy. Thanks for that little history.
BWL released for NA servers on Feb 14, 2020. I remember because one of our officers had to miss our first raid due to Valentine’s Day and it prompted one of our very first “how hardcore do we wanna be about this game?” discussions. Edit - maybe it was the Tuesday before the 14th actually
Getting rid of profession dropping doesn't get rid of min maxing. It just changes the window. And in terms of grind we look back on fondly, I think a lot of them are ones done as a group. Dropping a profession and ah leveling it is just some mind numbing solo grind that sucks.
Really like your takes on tokens and specially boosts. Ppl act like one 58 boost/account will ruin whole game🤦♂️
Look up MadSeason's "Ballad of the Level Boost" video on RUclips if you want to consider the potential good/bad impacts of the boost.
i want to level a new character in tbc, hope that lvl58 boosts dont ruin it
Why would other people boosting ruin things for you? There are already max level players, people with alts(with max professions), people with gold cap. How could introducing boosts make any real impact?
@@eryxviper you sure are oblivious of what's going on in classic :)
@@evenjesuscantsaveyouanymor6163 I am! Fill me in
@@evenjesuscantsaveyouanymor6163 ?
Cause its destroying the organic feeling of a MMORPG World by just letting people surpass the barrier of entry and giving instant gratification. Im not even gonna touch the subject of economy and professions and how abusable it is.
Having boosts means less people will be out leveling in the world and most of the people who use the boost as their first and only char are gonna quit during the first months cause they have no connection to their character. In the end everybody has a bad experience.
You guys should talk with Kevin Jordan about this and invite him to the podcast. He's an OG wow dev and he has some insightful thoughts about the boost, tokens and so on.
but hes already talked about it on other peoples podcasts
He would shut down their zoomer asses though
Easy gold sink, allow dye slots or alt coloring on Tier sets. No stat bonus, just looks different and make it a high buy in. Easy enough to bring some gold out without making it pay to win.
Goodluck to min max professions when you have no one farming low lvl mats to level up said professions @ 1:33:00
Why wouldn’t people be farming low level mats? If most people are anti boost then those people will farm mats as they level their fresh characters. If there’s nobody farming it at all, the price goes up due to demand being higher, causing people to farm it.
All of these gold issues would be resolved if they put a stop to boosting, that includes GDKP, that is also boosting.
my idea for world buffs:
You collect items for old raids (they drop for everyone in the raid), you combine this with items gathered in the world (BoP items from contested areas) and create buff items like ROIDs or Zanza consumes. You then use these consume when you get to the raid.
You lose the buffs when you die, and maybe they have two charges. But you can only get the consumes once or twice per week.
This 1) Creates consequences for death in raids and makes it feel a little more hardcore, 2) Makes players raid old content throughout the expansion which is good for new players, 3) forces players to go into the open world (pvp), 4) Doesn't make you buff log on your main, 5) gets rid of dispel griefing while still promoting actual pvp
Please do this again, you guys have the best back and forth discourse between participants of all the TBC podcasts, in my opinion at least
they announced all world buffs wont work above 63.
did the announcement talk about dmf though? I haven't found a confirmation there because the world buffs not working above 63 was already part of the game before but we're not sure it applied to dmf
@@ClassicRoguecraft I hope DMF stays, its a once a month fun flavour buff.
@@ondras8928 Its not once a month. A lot of guids are doing 2 or 3 speedruns per DMF circle, which sucks cause it requires a lot of raidlogging.
@@ClassicRoguecraft They specifically said DMF wont work. You wouldn't want it to anyways, because in tbc they made the buff 1-10% random. You would spend all week trying to get a high roll from the DMF. It would be an absolute disaster.
the issue with world buffs, is the stress of death in raid. For top guilds its not as much of a worry but for most guilds the stress of "dmf" week and losing your buffs due to other players actions to a lot of tension between your raid members. A lot harder to brush off a death when you lose 300 dps for the rest of the raid and any dream of parsing is gone on an individual level
That was a lot of fun to listen to for a TBC pre-hype. Thanks for covering the info and making it more of a casual talk than a scripted play.
I played wow when the tokens came out, literally over night the gold seller whispers vent almost completly away... just saying
If you want to know how the many unintended consequences of the 58 boost are hurting the game badly long term, I suggest you watch MadSeason's "Ballad of the Level Boost" video. Highly thought out and in-depth analysis of both the good and bad.
I watched it, it’s solid for explaining the point of view against boosts, but I feel it makes a lot of unconfirmed assumptions on the stats behind things (such as why WoW sub numbers declined)
It’s a fundamental problem to add boosts to the game. TBC isn’t coming out for a couple months, plenty of time to level. If you don’t enjoy leveling... you don’t enjoy the game
This is an amazing podast. I love your fresh takes on things like the tbc speed meta.
i think they should do a unannounced gold cap. don’t tell anyone until tbc launches and then just delete anything over a certain amount on one account. could even make it something crazy like 50k cap. i bet even at that high of an amount they would delete enormous amounts of gold.
Why do you feel this way?
@@eryxviper because it prevents ppl from doing work arounds like consolidating all their gold into items and other things to prevent from losing the money. it may not be 100% effective but it would eliminate a large percentage of the gold in game.
@@jongotti7403 Im wondering why you want there to be a cap
because unlike the us government i understand what happens when you have too much currency in circulation. ppl have been printing money on classic wow for over a year now and erasing some of that money will have positive effects on the servers and will def help the casuals a lot.
@@jongotti7403 So you feel like there's too much currency. What does that mean to you though? Why is it a bad thing?
I loved Wildstar. It was so unique
So by Zirene's logic related to drums why don't they just get rid of the enchanting requirement to get the ring enchants instead of the LW requirement for drums. Why don't they just homogenize every profession to the point where they don't matter like retail.
1:52:25 "like a blender" love that haha
Love classic wow love classic EQ all the way up to velious I still come. Back for every TLP I have woken the sleeper now 9 times! I missed the newest TLP due to the gates opening in Wow classic had to do SL but I plan to do it again this March 19th!
i have gold but am also cheap, probably respecced at most 4 or 5 times on each character, would pvp alot more with pvp spec
If mage boosts/ dungeon boosts were nerfed more people would be leveling
Great guest! You guys were a super fun duo to watch. 200iq and great perspectiv’s 👍 Keep up the good work Sno!
I think the decision to not have a gold cap going into TBC classic is done purposely knowing the wow token will be added...
very interesting learned alot
There is some extremely satisfying about listening to two experienced people talk with original thoughts. The amount of parroted information being spammed to RUclips is staggering, and it was extremely refreshing to get an insight into how you guys are going to be approaching TBC as opposed to how to copy someone else. My only suggestion would be work on the thumbnail for the videos. I was extremely close to passing this one up, but I am glad I didn’t. Please keep this going.
ty! I'll keep your feedback about the thumbnail in mind
the main thing to fix servers for new players is create fresh servers
Also maybe tonreduce min/maxing with professions and keep character identity they make things like the ring enchants require you to have the 375 skill in order to benefit. This way choosing a profession actually means something and makes them unique
i wonder who is the lead for wow classic, and who was the lead for everquest classic, and what her name is?
Zirene is on insane amounts of cope about Warrior being factually shit in TBC until T6 and it's really funny to me
Look how wrong you were lol
Great talk, enjoyed it!
Great podcast. I look forward to more!
Really enjoyed this.
He lost me on the dual spec part. He wants personal class identity, but also knows he is not effected by the gold. Not to mention there are specs that are useless for fights, like prot pally on vash. Sitting people instead of an out of combat button press and making their class identity being a barrier to experience content is selfish to those who can show up to all fights or are not effected by the gold cost.
NO...WAY. You can get someone banned, by entering in their character name into the gold selling site, and buy *them* gold? Well isn't that fascinating.
Real money trading started for me in Ultima Online. This was the wild west cause there was no ToS to stop it. We sold accounts, gold, items, rares, real estate and more. I think Everquest was the first to legally stop this via ToS.
And dude... Why do you have to use Bob as your example? I mean it should totally be Frank... right? All Bobs played Classic, Franks did not. Just sayin
If warcraftlogs makes it that you.cant switch specs for it to count towards logs that will stop the higher raiders of abusing it
The dispel meta sucks when you're targeted, but oh god these WcB Horde Only vids are fun!
there goes my dreams of using warglaives and thori'dal as a hunter
Imagine Blizzard selling gold on 3rd party websites under a different alias...
@Zirene and @Sno I can understand the death of the game b/c of a lack of new recruits and the need for people to be able to effectively level. I know lvl 58 boosts would be a way to help enable that, however, what if there was another option. what if they added zone buffs to players not max level. If there are not more than x threshold of people within +/- y#lvl of you in this zone you gain + Z% xp bonus and make that % increase or is based on the population near your lvl in that zone. when leveling zones are dead except for people farming, you might gain a 100% xp boost for example. Or you could reward party situations while partied with 1-5 people you gain increasing amounts of xp for turning in quests. it would reward people for leveling together inside and outside of dungeons, and the quest example could also encourage people to not only do quest lines to open up dungeon quests but to form groups to do them and reap the xp gains from that. it would nerf gold boosting services if the gains were enough to challenge the gains potentially net from buying boosting services from other players, this would also force people to play their class and learn the mechanics of their class so you actually get people who know how to play at the higher levels instead of people who cant play and paid for boosts. This can introduce a whole new world of shit to deal with like account sharing but thats also against TOS and can snuff accounts out as well for that. But, i think a lot of players will not want to share their account information in order to have other people level for them.
I don't see the difference between doing this and just allowing people to boost a toon to 58. That is essentially how retail does it with the xtra xp at lower levels.
@@skeletalarkeus5728 the difference is this is a way blizzard can fix their own game w/out turning it into pay to win which WILL turn away players, i'm not against people getting 1. i am against them not working to fix the problem in general... provinding a pay service to blizzard so u can get ez 58's is stupid. i'd honestly rather see the institution of tokens over pay to boost services. if there is a token system, people who want to boost their characters will stimulate the boosting comunity from low lvl to high lvl which is a small community compared to everyone else playing but, i'd rather see that than a bunch of 58's who cant play. + i'd rather they make it so people level their characters on their own and its not a major headache. They could also make zone 'goals' like after x quests in a zone you gain a bonus xp worth like 1 or 2 levels or something to encourage people to stay in the zone just to finish it out instead of moving on with my original idea. Point is, the problem is making the leveling experience one that people want to do over spending their real money to get a toon they dont know how to play to a high level and then infect the high level community with a bunch of people who cant play well at all.
You can gold cap things and make everything in peoples banks and mail soulbound, that way stockpiling materials will have their merrit, but economy isnt fucked tbh.
As a player who is against boosts.
1. This helps bots.
They can make a character and start farming ZG or BRD for raw gold with far less effort.
You have to see a player to report them, so at 58 they are instanced the whole time, either getting a boost or farming.
They can do this without "paying" for it a legit way. Wow tokens from retail can be redeemed for Blizzard acct balance.
Paying for the sub on any of their accounts. Paying for the boosts.
2. If a player doesn't like classic enough to level, they won't stay for TBC.
TBC is just more of classic and players have time to start characters right now. Anyone who is waiting for a boost isn't going to be retained and therefore shouldn't be represented as part of the community. Even a 1 time boost can make characters who did earn their characters FEEL bad and can dissuade players from leveling at all.
(My friends were actually leveling when TBC was announced, then they announced the boosts and they felt drained and stopped. Saying "why should we when other people are just gonna pay for it" )
Also you can character transfer between wow accounts on your Blizzard account so 1 per wow account doesn't mean anything.
3. "Mages boost people in game all the time"
Yeah they sure do. But guess what.
It takes time
It takes gold
Not all players buy gold and not all players buy boosts. And some players farm with their main to boosts their alts.
Why should this be considered a good reason for a free lvl 58 character?
Mages selling boosts still require people to play the game. And fits into a player driven economy. And would exist now even if gold buying wasn't an issue.
4. Everyone who has a platform has a skewed perspective. The game isn't only about content at max level. The whole leveling process is just as much OF THE GAME as max lvl pvp or raids.
5. Your average player doesn't give a crap about gold caps or the economy. But diminishing real time spent does push people away. People didn't want to play retail, that's why they are playing classic in the first place. And this change to help these imaginary new players, doesn't help the game and will only serve to hurt it.
Enjoy my hot take. Won't be answering any comments
I love ur stance and couldnt agree more on all points
I mean according to your logic your friends are the type of players who aren't going to stick around otherwise why the fuck would they care if someone else boosted a character? People stopped playing retail because of the lack of community due to the whole lfg system not because people could buy gold from blizzard instead of black markets or boost characters.
Zirene????? Holy shit now I'm really interested!
Enjoyed the podcast. Dont know much about you or how heavily involved you are with the speed running community but is that the main perspective you plan to keep in the future or do you plan to bring in more normal raiding perspectives whether they are hardcore or casual. Because I don't really think being a hardcore raider necessarily means being a speed runner.
It'll be a bit of everything. I raid in both a semi hardcore/casual guild as well as my Progress toon and zirene is in US world top speedrun guild so we have a fairly varied bunch of raids between us.
I try to be balanced as far as point of views go, that's why i like zirene as co-host, he's also open minded as far as trying to see things from not just his own perspective.
Appreciate the response and I look forward to listening to more episodes
regarding the boosts ruining the economy, i like how staysafe is pretending the economy isn't already completely scuffed.
How can Zirene before GDKP where people buy gold and use it to gain items and in doing so spreads the pay to win to 39 other players.... yet the token is more pay to win? To me the token is the same thing as having that one guy in the GDKP who swipes his credit card.
there is no GDKP run on our server... fells wierd to hear about how much gold is in it
glad im not the only one that calls them g day kp's
Sad to see people defending this blatant cash grab that undermines Classic’s integrity/philosophy. This endgame only mentality is a plague on the genre.
Very disappointed.
Couldnt agree more, destroying the longevity of natural MMORPG environment just for the sake of some zoomers who are gonna quit in a month anyway.
Tax players upon moving to TBC. Dont tell people ahead of time so they cant buy up the whole AH.
5% Tax: 0-5,000g ( -250g max)
15% tax: 5,000-20,000g ( -2,250g max)
40% tax: 20,000-100,000 ( -32,000g max)
75% tax: 100,000+ ( if someone has 1m gold = -675,000g leaving them well over 200k gold).
If you're upset with this then you're the .01% of players who it would affect.
Personally I would fall under the 15% tax bracket.
The reason everyone should want this is because of all the Bots that are hording gold to sell would get fucked. The majority of players wouldn't really notice the hit. Even if I had 1m gold I would be for this just to screw over gold sellers.
Stop watching when i heard "griefing is something they're allowed to enjoy". Awful way of thinking
Yep, "you're allowed to be super toxic and ruin other people's experiences". I get his point, it makes the world feel alive with risks, but raid logging is not a "real world full of risks" it's stupid.
Warglaives= Rogues ofc. Also dont forget Warriors have gotten 2 legendarys in Classic Vanilla.
Zirene is basing his melee raid comp on the knowledge that Warriors are, RIGHT NOW, still pretty powerful without world buffs. This isn't true at level 70 with Outland gear; not until T6.
Not really. I'm basing it on the fact that Warriors are high dps without world buffs too and their throughput requires no standing still so they can move while killing and don't have mana condtraints at all. In speed running, movement and kill times are both relevant.
@@aidanmoon3353 staying alive is also relevant, which is difficult for melee in TBC.
@@lenin2457 yeah TBC is definitely not that melee friendly with their mechanics but on things like endless everything has WAY more hp on purpose so you experience non-melee mechanics more often in a fight since it'll be longer. E.g. Sapphiron isn't that melee friendly during air phase, but because of cooldowns and coordination you burn it past all that during the windows you CAN use melee.
At the end of the day we won't know and upon tweaking the comp more and more I feel like another hunter is better than some of the furies but we'll see really. It's a hypothesis with no way to test it at the moment except archaic knowledge, and giga buffed versions of the game we have access to.
Just realised the Free character copy will never happen. How will they "pay" for era servers? Basically a character save server
@37:55 "if you are rich in real life, you deserve to be rich in game."
This is a very flawed idea, if we unpack it. In real life, nobody is REQUIRED to provide a product or service just because you have the money to pay it. The WoW community has every right to reject the influence of outside money on the game, just as we would not be required to permit a rich person to hire Derek Jeter to win their local softball league.
Money is only a peaceful means of exchange when agreements are made voluntarily. Otherwise, it is an abstraction of force. Rich people are entitled to the rewards their money can buy, but they are not entitled to unilaterally declare what rewards we will choose to offer them.
If you boost to 58 what kind of gear do you get. I know level 58 blues but you should pick your gear I mean depending on spec if gear is random you might get horrible gear
Probably same way as in retail you pick your spec prior to the boost and it gives you a basic set they would probably create specifically for boosted toons based on your spec
ive botten 40k worth of gold never banned
Had to do engineering thrice myself :(
Can just anyone do GDKP? Or do you need to be a whale to join a raid and a good guild to run one? I feel like I would like to GDKP because I like raiding and I like gold.
generally anyone can join but they'll prio either people who are connected to organizers, well geared/good logs, or a lot of gold to spend
hey its that guy from the LoL LCS. small world
Warhammer got shut down too
Cant find the zirene tbc raidcomp, did u post it?
It’ll be in the highlights page when it’s done, but I also posted it in the discord podcast channel if you want to check it out early
@Zirene why do you say Alliance Prot Paladin is better than Horde? and on what aspect threat/mitigation?
Because Alliance racial of Expertise for Humans is relevant for both Parry and Dodge when tanking, dwarf stoneform armor racial and them getting seal of blood means blood elves bring nothing to PvE that assists them more than a Human or Dwarf does. Unless there is an AoE pull that requires you to silence a bunch of mobs to group them - Alliance prot and ret paladin will be slightly better racial wise.
@@aidanmoon3353 When it comes to the best mitigation paladin tank race, Stoneform pales in comparison to the fact that Horde , can get Razorhide. Also, highly doubt Alliance Ret Human Paladin will be the best Ret Race since almost an entire Horde raid comp has the chance to go Orc/Troll for overall increased raid DPS leading to faster kill times.
@@Caperfin The entire raid comp doing more dps doesn't make your race better. That's like saying Night Elf Shadow Priest is the best Shadow Priest Race in Classic because Alliance raids do more DPS.
Your parse may be higher because your overall raid damage is high, but it doesn't mean your racial is better.
As for Stoneform, that's just a tiny example of how blood elves will make the worst paladins for PvE. They're still best in PvP for sure. But their racials don't get them anything in PvE as useful as all the other Paladin races do sadly. Stoneform is incredibly minor but Dwarf is literally a minor step up from Belf, but still a step up is a step up.
Razorhide is a 10 minute buff and absolutely, it's good. But the times you use prot paladins to their fullest is in the middle of SCC, Hyjal, later in black temple than the sewers and entrance, and on Felmyst and M'uru which are way more than 10 minutes in. Overall matters here, and it's why I personally rank Draenei really high for prot paladin alongside Human. The 1% hit they give and the ability to give themself a HoT pre-pull for more threat is valuable. Expertise is also something you WANT to softcap on ALL melee classes, ESPECIALLY TANKS - to remove dodges from the table and it also affects parries so it's SUPER valuable for tanks.
I've been playing classic for a while and have a friend who is new to WoW and he leveled on retail to like 30 but he would probably play TBC with the boost
I’ve saved 15k gold by spending allot of time farming lotus, it’s not allot of gold, but i worked for it. I feel like if they reset the gold, bots will still be in the game. It’ll end up the same
Yeah except now all of us who put in time to get good are just fucked 🙃. I agree with you.
Just a heads up, the Discord link in the description is expired
ty! Fixed it
Hunter/lock over hyped? Don't fix what isn't broke buddies
Thank you! From a 30 something year old family dad that has 1,5 hours average time to game per day thank you so much for getting behind the lvl 58 boost
Boosting is targeted towards new players. If they didn’t enjoy Classic, how will they enjoy TBC. The majority of players boosting will not stick to the game. All of us that are already playing will just buy the boost, because convenience.
Also botters, they get wow subs for a third of the price. The people that benefit the most from this (other than Blizzard) are botters.
Maaaaan this is bs, all Blizzard would have to do is hire 100-500 Gms that literally ONLY hunt for bots , ( teleporting in dungeons, watching toons that were online for x amount of time. Watch all the popular nodes in the world and dungeon boosters that only say yes sir and yes ..... its literally THAT fucking easy. THATS how you deal with bots. Why in the hell would you want to put a gold cap and fuck over all the actual decent players that farm gold. How about blizzard use 1% of their fucking MULTI BILLIONS $$$ company to hire GMs and solve the bot problem in literally a fucking week. And dont try and say "oh its not that simple" because it literally is ....
Imagine joining groups that have a host fee/tax lol
It's great to listen to the analysis of people that have clearly put in the effort to think through some of these issues objectively! By hearing some of the knee-jerk hot takes out there, you can tell populism is a thing in gaming just as much as in some political environments.
WoW Token: Most of the people against the token are themselves buying gold. They just don't want others to have access to gold as well in order to maintain the advantage of doing so illegally (i.e. dadgamers/more casual gamers won't be as compelled to buy illegal gold and they don't want this competition). WoW Token, although philosophically feels bad, is necessary and compatible with the gaming communities we have these days where people have more money than time and want fast results. Token > Illegal gold for the health of the game. It's a necessary evil. The way to avoid Pay 2 Win is for the strongest items in the game to be difficult to obtain regardless of how much gold you have. Will people be able to buy glaives? Absolutely. Illidan is easy enough that you can boost buyers. But it's definitely a lot harder to do than boosting Gressil buyers in Naxx, for example, so there'll be a lot less of it.
The boost: This is good for the health of the game, as it removes a barrier for new players to join that is really more psychological than amount of time or effort to get it. One thing is a 58 boost in Classic, and another is in TBC. Just like the token, most of the people that hate it are the same people that are i) buying dungeon boosts on all their new alts, and ii) put in the 'effort' to level a bunch of characters during classic to achieve an advantage in TBC, and now will have that advantage dilluted.
Release timings: Naxx release during Christmas break and Shadowlands release made no sense at all, and with a bit of tinfoil was perhaps an experiment to see how players would distribute if given the option of a retail expansion. Classic having survived this, I think the approach going forward will be to balance content releases between Classic and Retail to smooth out their revenue streams.
Speedrunning and world buffs in TBC: DMF being allowed in raids to promote speedrunning would be great for the game. It's just one buff, and it maintains a bit of the special environment and higher stakes around the Circus in a more pallatable manner.
Drums nerf: 90% of people agree on this. It's obnoxious, it's not fun. Why would we want something that is is almost unanimously not fun? There's minmaxing that is interesting and minmaxing that is uninteresting and hurts the game. Leatherworking meta is the latter. Zirene is right, there's nothing special about the re-leveling even amongst avid minmaxers. There is a common thread among the topics discussed where people want to gatekeep others arbitrarily rather than focusing on their playing ability. This is a bad habit that comes from some of the private server communities.
Faction balance: Community perception is more important at this point than the actual numbers. Horde is better, but when you do the math it's not an amount where it's worth rerolling horde. Seal sharing, while if you do the math on the raid dps is negligible, is huge in making ways towards community perception and will avoid a lot of guild rerolls.
Warglaive prio meme topic: I'm a huge rogue fan and I played one in a top guild in original TBC and it's sad to see they're considered the redheaded stepchild in the predicted meta. But this is not going to be about the class. It's going to be about your best player. And since Classic has shifted dps perspective from boss damage to overall damage, I think people are hugely sleeping on fury at the moment. This leads to the next point..
TBC bis composition: People need to chill the hell out on what they think is the bis comp until they've actually played the game. As a former hardcore TBC player, there are WAY too many people talking about things they don't have experience in. The private server bis comps are built to progress extremely overtuned bosses that overly punish melee and don't account for plowing through trash. So again, fully agree with Zirene here: A) If you're a top guild, you'll need to figure out the comp as you play and you'll have people with multiple chars to do that anyway. B) If you're not a top guild, take care in copying what others do. Class design is very good in TBC and there aren't meme specs as such as they were in classic where your raid is taxed, so focus on the player not the class and balance your raid :)
can we actually see the screenshot of his envisioned roster?
Yep, it’ll be on the highlights page when it’s up but if you want it right now I posted it in the discord too, in the podcast discussion channel.
Just keep in mind it’s all theorycrafting, we have no idea if that roster will actually be workable/doable until we get there and try stuff out
Resoect to Sno for not doing GDKP's...
I hate the world buff meta just for the time boring investment to get them all... it’s boring and not fun to fly all over
'how to know when wow is dying' - when cata drops
well this aged like milk
It's cute that you guys think Activision cares about your experience. When the AQ gate event was live, they were 10 days late starting the auto complete function, after repeatedly lying to players. They only took action after IGN wrote a scathing article.
Let that sink in... they couldn't be bothered to make sure that the single largest quest event in the history of MMOs went according to a plan that hasn't been changed in 15 years. If your fun in the game depends upon them caring, you're playing the wrong game.
I'd debate League of Legends not being shit.... no 2 factor authentication for the longest time and a forced stale meta.... Its like saying gangam style is the epitome of music.
for the love of god just let the world buffs drop like in china at this point. pick a different time frame if ya like.
Anyway, thanks for the video Sno. Good talk.
How can this clown like wbuffs, but hate minmax professions? it's the same thing...
A podcast with timestamps OMG