The CZ would be the odd gun out of the 4 guns because the Rex, Walther and Sig (minus the mag well) can compete in the Production Division in USPSA. The CZ TS, being single action only, would fall into another division. The better CZ to compare against the other three guns to would be the CZ 75 Shadow 2. The order of the guns preference would end up being the same though I think.
In fact, the CZ you showed in this video doesn’t really fit into a division in USPSA. SAO 9mms with no optics don’t really fit in anywhere unfortunately. Maybe Steel Challenge or IDPA?
Hahaha the clip of Jason putting 5 rounds through each gun. “ I agree with everything you said”. Blink in the next video if you’re in trouble bro, we won’t let Tim hurt you anymore lol.
The Walther is built for IPSC where a 5 pound trigger is the minimum allowed for the Production class. The REX would start with the hammer down in Production as well as all DA/SA guns must. A single action is not allowed for Production in IPSC or USPSA. The CZ for Production is the Shadow 2.
@@Leo___________ The price ! A CZ Shadow 2 cost´s about 1000€ to 1200€ . A 2011 is abaout 2500€ up to 5000€ in Germany. I love shooting a STI 2011 but a shadow 2 is more affordable so i bought the CZ
As per the 2019 rules, the 5 lbs limit is for the first shot only with no restrictions on subsequent shots, OR 3 lbs for every trigger pull (i.e - striker fired guns). With that in mind, as well as the fact that the Walther around here is just a few hundred less than the Shadow, it's no wonder you don't see more Walthers.
I actually run the x5 legion as a duty weapon. Had a choice of a 320 m17 so I figured what's .2 of an inch more. It's heavier. Shoots flatter and less recoil. Phenomenal weapon system
The steel frame Walter PPQ was also not well liked by other reviewers like honest outlaw I have a CZ shuttle too and I'm not a big fan of that it's two nose hubby and it rocks back and forth in my hand I really like the X5 legion it's much better balance and the regular PPQ the power is terrific
I'd be more worried about the slide and barrel than the frame, especially since the 320 uses a stand alone fire control group/receiver. The Glock 20/40 both handle 10mm with a polymer frame very well. It's probably also just not commercially viable for sig yet, maybe someday they'll bless us with a 10mm besides that emperor scorpion 1911.
great video thnx , walther also have the Q5 MATCH STEEL FRAME EXPERT , it have a flat trigger with a 2000 g trigger pull and a 17 round magazin , the trigger pull on the Q5 MATCH STEEL is 2500 g and the magazine holds 15 rounds ,
I dont have the legion but i got a black xfive when sig reduced the prices for 689. I have to agree with the other dude the xfive is machined to a very tight tolerance. I have other p320s n i swap them around every which way. But the xfive itself is remarkable, imo. Should i of waited for the legion..idk i keep hearing things now thats its just amazing in like everyway. Ill Prob gonna just buy it ha. Thanks bros
These two guns are the hottest two new guns on the market right now. Great choice for a video. I have been wanting someone to do this comparison, thanks MAC!
I have the polymer Q5 Match and love it. I have tried the SF several times, and just cannot justify the price difference. There are also no different size backstraps for the SF, a downside for me.
I own the polymer q5 match as well and love it. The price of the SF is too rich for me, and wondered about the difference in performance for double the price.
Did you buy it complete as the Q5 Polymer or did you by the Q5 upper to marry to the PPQ M2 - and does that wind up being the same thing? I have a PPQ M2 and am very tempted to get the Q5 upper and "assume" having the same as if I had bought the Q5 Polymer version. Thoughts ... experiences ... ???
FamousTVvoice I bought it as the complete pistol. I also have a PPQ as well. Love them both. Q5 is my nightstand gun, PPQ my daily carry. The Q5 is more accurate than I will ever be.
After mostly owning M&P's and Glocks, bought my first Sig (X5 legion) two weeks ago.....absolutely love it and can't wait for my holster to arrive so I can start competing with it! FWIW, with the 12# spring and Federal Syntec 150 grain it is the flattest shooting (non comped) 9mm I have shot....my only real gripe is the grip texture isn't as aggressive as I prefer...Mag release is a bit short, but have already ordered a Springer Precision extended release to solve that
Love the Sig P320 X5 Legion. I know S&W has the Performance Center M&Ps, but I wished S&W would make an even better M&P that's primarily focused on competitive shooting instead of an upgraded M&P. I wished Glock would also make a Competition gun as well, but at least we have other companies doing it for us.
my understanding is that the reason Sig went with tungsten infused polymer over steel, is that some shooters prefer polymer frames because of the flex, whereas some prefer steel/metal guns for extra weight. apparently for a long time many competition shooters jave been saying they wish there was a gun with the weight of an all metal gun, but the flex of a polymer gun, so they could have the best of both worlds so to speak. i dont know how much of a difference the tungsten infused polymer frame makes over having an all metal or all polymer frame, but I'm pretty sure that was the reasoning behind it(and I'm sure other factors like already having the tooling and experience making polymer 320s, cost, and possibly retaining the ability to swap frames(though admittedly I do not know if this slide fits on other frames.)
Watching the CZ is truly remarkable. It looks good, looks like it fits well in the hand, etc. Even though it doesn't accept red dots as is, you can tell that it's very well made and well thought out design.
I picked up the legion and it's my favorite pistol. It eats any ammo. It's the easiest pistol I've ever owned to use and the recoil is minimal enough to keep my red dot on target
Something about that SIG... held it at a gun store and it was the first time I actually felt like I needed a 320. If I was still in Law Enforcement I would definitely consider it for duty. I think it is that happy medium between duty and competiton boat anchor. As for the "erratic ejection", anybody remember the good ole days when the early Gen4 glocks would shoot brass into your forehead? 😅
@@Gary-Lazer-Eyes Early Gen4 Glocks, specifically the .40 22 & 23 would shoot the brass into your forhead or face. This was a factory issue that was resolved by Glock. Unfortunately many police glocks are bought and stored by the 1000's, so if a new recruit ended up with "new old stock" 22 or 23, this problem would resurface again. We are not talking a piece of brass on your shirt once in a while, were talking each shot smacking you in the face like you are standing over it.
...have a Sig P32 X5 Legion...and a few other Legion pistols...I'm a Sig fan-boy...but, the Legion has taken over my gun safe as my daily carry piece. For those worried about the profile and about concealment, the mag well can be taken off with a single allen head screw, and be pretty flat and sneaky. I DO very much like this sort of head-to-head of pistols in the same catagory, especially when mentioning price. I have a CZ (an SP01 Tactical) which WAS my carry piece. The only thing I'd change about that piece is the grips, for vanity's sake (which I've done)...great pistol...but, shooting the Legion is like shooting a kid's cap pistol. Light trigger, excellent action, accurate. I took my P365 out and shot it with the Legion, and the smoothness of the Legion spoiled me for the much jumpier 365. If you need a tiny pistol, the 365 is aces...but, if you want an all-around great defensive piece, there's no beating the Legion (in my collection, anyway). It took a bit of breaking in, and then it was a winner. Keep the comparison videos coming.
The PPQ is by far the snappiest 9mm fullsize polymer pistol I've shot. I assumed Walther's Q5's wouldn't be different so I was never interested, especially for competition.
The Canik TP9SFX has the same feature set as these guns for less than $500.00. 5 inch barrel, 20 round magazines, optics cut, extended mag release and a good trigger. I think the Canik is the best value.
You said you think the PPQ is 1 of the best defensive/combat hand guns. What is your top ranked Striker fired defensive/combat handguns? Im curious to know where you rank the PPQ and the P10C? Thanks for the greatr videos and any thoughts on this you might give!
I go back and forth on this. I think the Walther PPQ Navy and Cz p-10c Optics ready are best in the world for a defensive or combat striker Pistol. I have both and they are both amazing. Both are 100% reliable, Both have great ergos now that cz did away with the ambi mag release that took a hammer to release a full magazine. PPQ is more accurate at farther distance but cz is flatter shooting.
@@platinummarketingservices8448 I believe a better option for competition would be a PPQ Navy with the Slide milled for optic where you can keep the rear sight or a Cz P10 F optics ready.
Tim the standard PPQ, PPQ Match and PPQ Match Steel Frame all have the same trigger rated at 5.6 lbs. The match gun triggers are just colored bling blue. You’re right on about not feeling a difference compared to your standard PPQ. You would think for the money, that the match guns would have lighter triggers..
Thanks for this video...finally someone nails it with an unbiased opinion. The CZ is unbelievable. I've had nearly every Glock made, XD's, M&P's, the X5, the PPQ, etc., etc., and nothing comes close to the CZ. I still buy other polymer and steel guns for the enjoyment of shooting and to add to the collection, but my CZ TS Orange is unreal. Just my opinion, but I think it's something you have to experience to appreciate.
Wonder if they are better than my Grand Power X-Caliber ? It has the rotating bull barrel, 2 different recoil springs, and a rather light (about 3lb) trigger pull....a great ‘nail driver’.
I think you hit the advantages of that Sig frame right on. It gives you the weight of steel for competition, but mutes the recoil with the flex of the polymer.
I have 3 Xfive, 2 original. 1 setup for carry optics and one production, I also have new Xfive Legion. If you add ext. mag release for 25USD and and greyguns trigger (once trigger in it at or under 2lbs), Legion comes with 1911 springs, original Xfive I added them so i can tune to my reloads. I have small hands and also ordered and got Xfive grip in small. I also have Barsto threaded barrel with Range18 comp. awesome system, can also get 21rd mags, change base and springs to get 23.
While unpopular, I agree with you. I own an X5 legion and Q5 SF and prefer the X5 for all the reasons you mentioned. Next season we'll be running both in Carry Optics due to personal preference.
I use 21 round mags, because I hated the 17s. They were flush with the well and (as a personal preference) didn't get a warm fuzzy it was seating. With the 21s, get that nice solid seat in the mag well
great review .. You should this series of your top four guns like this for ipsc competition divisions, open , standard , production , production optics , classic , revolver
Haven't fired the Walter, but my dad got the Legion. It felt like a 22. Love the trigger and sights. Didn't even know this was around until he pulled it out. Now I have to go to my dad's house more often and see what is new in the safe.
Great Review as usual. Long time since I received alert of yours videos, don't know if is RUclips or not. In Europe, CZ Shadow 2 has, from factory, the cuts for Red Dots, also a SAO model. Which has shorter trigger reach distance of the strikers models?
@@bebo7002 True, except that there is a different, 1911 style, spring set in this gun and I suspect it will break in some and become much more consistent with use. I consider Mac's methodology of testing in this regard too be flawed. Testing with a firearm factory prepared to sit on a shelf isn't realistic. Everyone agrees that lubrication is critical for proper operation of ANY firearm. Lubrication for storage is different than lubrication for use.
I have a P320 X-Five & it has a Stainless Steel slide (which I've never seen a X-Five model w/ a stainless steel slide until the one I bought), but as far as I know it didn't come w/ any extra springs of any type & I for sure got it brand new too. I ain't grippin', considerin' I got the X-Five for around $700-$750, I just have no idea what you're talkin' about as far as this "extra recoil-spring"goes??
Yep...but since the 21 rounders don't fit in the 140mm box for competition, they had Henning machine some fancy base pads for the 17 rounders which also makes them legal for USPSA production. Carry Optics competitors will likley be upgrading the base pads and adding grams followers/springs to get 23 rounds in the 17 round mags.
I’ll take on anyone with the Walter steel frame pro with an Apex trigger and the Trijicon Sro optic. I’m not a competition shooter however, my groupings at 15 yards are the size of a silver dollar at the range. I’ve even had the chance to go up against a qualified shooter with an Atlas nyx and we basically tied our groupings at 15 and 20.. not to mention I’m a novice with only three years experience and less than 100 hours of practice. Game, set, match.. Q5 that is..
I 100% agree, I shoot my Tactical Sport Orange in Limited Minor (yes I know disadvantage but I shoot to have fun and I HATE 40). My suggestion would be to add the CZC extended wide safety and their aluminum trigger. The aluminum trigger is better that the plastic stock trigger as the aluminum one gives you a better reset feel and cleaner break with no flex
13:53 Tim, I know from USPSA with DA/SA guns you'd be required to pull the trigger while guiding the hammer down on a loaded chamber to start in DA. Cocked and locked start positions generally only apply to SAO guns.
I love my Sig P320 X5 Legion, I put a tungsten guide rod in it and man its a sweet flat shooing handgun! This gun makes you want to shoot it all day long. I got mine for $843.00
I own both the TS and shadow 2. The TS is bread for the Limited division but in .40 which mine is. It's an awesome pistol. In .40 it feels like a 9mm with my loads for it. My shadow 2 is my production pistol. It was specifically designed by pro shooters and CZ for that division. The legion and the Q5M can be used in production class. Possable for optics ready division minus mag Wells. But there are new rules for that division this year. All would be great for 3Gun also. I've used my TS for it a few times as well as my S2.
I've never tried the CZ 75, but from all of those who have, I've never heard anything but positive opinions. Could the differences in 'ejection pattern' be a multifactorial thing? A certain slide and recoil spring, choice of ammo, shooter's grip and limpy deflection in combination.
The CZ has the best ergonomics. At least for my hands. It is unlike the other pistols weary narrow in the frame in the top rear part of the grip allowing for a deep high grip bacause the web between your thumb and hand can sink into that recessed area. While on the other pistols the thick top rear part of the grip makes it feel "lumpy" to get you'r thumb around and you don't get as good of a grip on them. Also the CZ SA trigger is awesome.
There is one pistol that was built for competition that gets very little mention or props. It's the Grand Power X-Calibur. I own one and these pistols are tack drivers. They are silky smooth and loaded with cool features. The match version is cut for an red dot. It's just an amazing pistol.
Heard great things about the GP X-Calibur. But there is no cut for a red dot that comes from the factory except in Canada, as I understand it. Am I missing something? Any way to put a red dot on or get a slide cut for the GP?
@@robertisaacson6259 not that I am aware of. Im not much of a red dot guy as far as pistols are concerned. There are a ton of optics ready pistols in the market now.
Looking at CZs website I see the TS Orange but yours has blue grips and mag well. Did you add these or is this a new model TS Blue? I totally agree on the new Sig X5 legion.
Obviously I’m late to the party here in 2022, but as a big Walther fan I was very interested in your comments regarding the Q5 SF. I own and have competed actively with the original Q5 in IDPA and absolutely love the the pistol as I am also a Southpaw and the Walther Q5 was the first truly full ambidextrous pistol I had ever got my hands on; however, I certainly Ky don’t want to pay $1750 in todays market for a pistol that does not have a marked advantage over the original. Thanks for this informational video!!
I have been watching this channel for years now and it just keeps delivering! Really great, But can you please convert your the measurements to metric? We do´nt have your goofy systems in Sweden, thanks!!
This is like watching someone who only goes to the driving range or mini-golf reviewing pro-level golf clubs. "Wow, this sure hits the ball good. Feels great. It would be great for competitive use."
@@DB.KOOPER lol. But that's the problem, it's the worst. Not because the gun itself is the worst(it's likely the best), but because the rules of the sport he's recommending it for put it at a severe disadvantage.
Tim, how would you say the Beretta M9A3 compares to these four pistols? Your review of it was a primary resource for my decision to buy one. So, I'm curious how you feel that it compares. Thanks for a great video.
I think I would definitely agree with your pic of handguns.I also do like the trigger of the sig it could be a little lighter but it feels lighter than what it really is.
So we had my and a couple of lady's friends over shooting different hands guns to help decide what they like. We had a total of 20 different hand guns. Every one of the lady's preferred shooting the P320 Legion X5 hands down
MAC great video as always, when are you going to review IWI masada 9mm hand gun? I first saw it on small arm solutions, Chris seemed pretty impressed with it.
Actually that Walther is $1500 retail. Its a slap in the face to anyone looking to get into competition guns. Walther was however nice enough to take mine back through their 30 day Shoot it, Love it guarantee. I agree with everything you said. The recoil feels about the same as my glock 17 while my Shadow 2 barely has an recoil. I attribute this to the Q5''s super long top compared to the relatively short grip. Horrible buy for $1500.
What I'm not seeing anyone address in the comment section is the Sigs heavy grip module. Here's why: Sig wanted to make a competition handgun that felt phenomenal to shoot. They wanted the felt recoil to be reduced by making it a polymer gun, which allows the frame to "absorb" some of the felt recoil, but they also wanted the weight of a steel frame to reduce the recoil of the gun as well. Sadly, steel frames wont absorb any felt recoil, and they can feel snappy to shoot. So sig did away with that by making tungsten infused polymer grip modules, and making slide cut outs to cut weight off the reciprocating parts. All of these little design features work hand in hand to reduce damn near all recoil from the weapon. THIS will be my first handgun that isnt a hand-me-down. Cant wait to get the fuck away from this .357 smith.
Can you make a post actually measuring the bore axis of a few guns? I don’t think the CZ is all that low, I think it just has a lot less massive slide. I had a shadow but never measured it
The only time I've ever come close to an ND was when someone handed me a modified CZ at the range. It was pointed down range and everything but NO SHIT, as soon as I touched the trigger, it went off. You mention the CZ having a hair trigger and...yea...then modify it and dear God. BREATH on it and BANG!!
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The CZ would be the odd gun out of the 4 guns because the Rex, Walther and Sig (minus the mag well) can compete in the Production Division in USPSA. The CZ TS, being single action only, would fall into another division. The better CZ to compare against the other three guns to would be the CZ 75 Shadow 2. The order of the guns preference would end up being the same though I think.
I can only show what I have. :) Yes, the Shadow 2 would be a good comparison.
Just for info, the CZ Shadow 2 is now being supplied with a pre cut slot for a variety of optics.
In fact, the CZ you showed in this video doesn’t really fit into a division in USPSA. SAO 9mms with no optics don’t really fit in anywhere unfortunately. Maybe Steel Challenge or IDPA?
Yup, was just typing up that he should have compared it to the Shadow 2. That Tactical Sport Blue was a limited production gun.
It's for IPSC Standard
Hahaha the clip of Jason putting 5 rounds through each gun. “ I agree with everything you said”. Blink in the next video if you’re in trouble bro, we won’t let Tim hurt you anymore lol.
This is hilarious!!
I came here to make a similar joke.
*camera turns off*
"GET BACK IN YOUR FUCKING CAGE JASON, NO TABLE SCRAPS FOR YOU TONIGHT."
Tim to Jason: " I got a new BCM hat. I'll let you have my old & dirty hat if you agree with everything I say."
greatgoatherder Tim, “and Jason agrees with me” .....Tim stares at Jason like Samuel L Jackson in Black Snake Moan.
No expert and haven't shot the others, but I love my Q5 SF. Really accurate, fun to shoot, reliable. And badass looking.
The Walther is built for IPSC where a 5 pound trigger is the minimum allowed for the Production class. The REX would start with the hammer down in Production as well as all DA/SA guns must. A single action is not allowed for Production in IPSC or USPSA. The CZ for Production is the Shadow 2.
Is this the reason CZs are more popular than 2011s in europe?
@@Leo___________ The price ! A CZ Shadow 2 cost´s about 1000€ to 1200€ . A 2011 is abaout 2500€ up to 5000€ in Germany. I love shooting a STI 2011 but a shadow 2 is more affordable so i bought the CZ
Exactly! You can not compare the guns without giving credence to their purpose.
I own both an S2 and a Q5. They have difference purposes.
As per the 2019 rules, the 5 lbs limit is for the first shot only with no restrictions on subsequent shots, OR 3 lbs for every trigger pull (i.e - striker fired guns).
With that in mind, as well as the fact that the Walther around here is just a few hundred less than the Shadow, it's no wonder you don't see more Walthers.
the SIG is under 5 for the trigger and is listed currently for Production, without the mag well.
I actually run the x5 legion as a duty weapon. Had a choice of a 320 m17 so I figured what's .2 of an inch more. It's heavier. Shoots flatter and less recoil. Phenomenal weapon system
It’s so strange that you gave the total opposite review on the PPQ compared to other guys that reviewed this firearm.
He kinda did that with the SAR 9 and I like it so much I got 4 of them. And he likes SIG and Glock and I will likely never buy either.
The steel frame Walter PPQ was also not well liked by other reviewers like honest outlaw I have a CZ shuttle too and I'm not a big fan of that it's two nose hubby and it rocks back and forth in my hand I really like the X5 legion it's much better balance and the regular PPQ the power is terrific
Do you think Sig could use that Tungsten type polymer to make a 10 mm 320
Perry2186 that’s a great idea
Staaahhhppp
I'd be more worried about the slide and barrel than the frame, especially since the 320 uses a stand alone fire control group/receiver. The Glock 20/40 both handle 10mm with a polymer frame very well. It's probably also just not commercially viable for sig yet, maybe someday they'll bless us with a 10mm besides that emperor scorpion 1911.
@@cornpopwasabaddude69 I want a 10mm with left handed controls
@@Perry2186 - What about the Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match or Limited? I think the controls on those are ambi/reversible.
We need some more cz videos!
For pride month
great video thnx , walther also have the Q5 MATCH STEEL FRAME EXPERT , it have a flat trigger with a 2000 g trigger pull and a 17 round magazin , the trigger pull on the Q5 MATCH STEEL is 2500 g and the magazine holds 15 rounds ,
I have the polymer frame 320 X5 came with 4 - 21rds mags. I take her out all the time and I like her a lot
Oh for God's sake, put all of them through the gauntlet! Let the dirt decide the winner.
Tolerances are too tight on my X5 legion....great for competition, but not for duty/service...
I dont have the legion but i got a black xfive when sig reduced the prices for 689. I have to agree with the other dude the xfive is machined to a very tight tolerance. I have other p320s n i swap them around every which way. But the xfive itself is remarkable, imo. Should i of waited for the legion..idk i keep hearing things now thats its just amazing in like everyway. Ill Prob gonna just buy it ha. Thanks bros
You mean like his originally fair gauntlet he did on the ppq?
These two guns are the hottest two new guns on the market right now. Great choice for a video. I have been wanting someone to do this comparison, thanks MAC!
I have the polymer Q5 Match and love it. I have tried the SF several times, and just cannot justify the price difference. There are also no different size backstraps for the SF, a downside for me.
I could be wrong, but it appears there are swappable backstraps and triggers available for the SF... just not here yet in the states.
Same.
I own the polymer q5 match as well and love it. The price of the SF is too rich for me, and wondered about the difference in performance for double the price.
Did you buy it complete as the Q5 Polymer or did you by the Q5 upper to marry to the PPQ M2 - and does that wind up being the same thing? I have a PPQ M2 and am very tempted to get the Q5 upper and "assume" having the same as if I had bought the Q5 Polymer version. Thoughts ... experiences ... ???
FamousTVvoice I bought it as the complete pistol. I also have a PPQ as well. Love them both. Q5 is my nightstand gun, PPQ my daily carry. The Q5 is more accurate than I will ever be.
I ended up getting the X5 regular and a X5 Legion, love both, but shoot sidebyside and the Legion is hands down WOW.
After mostly owning M&P's and Glocks, bought my first Sig (X5 legion) two weeks ago.....absolutely love it and can't wait for my holster to arrive so I can start competing with it! FWIW, with the 12# spring and Federal Syntec 150 grain it is the flattest shooting (non comped) 9mm I have shot....my only real gripe is the grip texture isn't as aggressive as I prefer...Mag release is a bit short, but have already ordered a Springer Precision extended release to solve that
Love the Sig P320 X5 Legion. I know S&W has the Performance Center M&Ps, but I wished S&W would make an even better M&P that's primarily focused on competitive shooting instead of an upgraded M&P. I wished Glock would also make a Competition gun as well, but at least we have other companies doing it for us.
my understanding is that the reason Sig went with tungsten infused polymer over steel, is that some shooters prefer polymer frames because of the flex, whereas some prefer steel/metal guns for extra weight.
apparently for a long time many competition shooters jave been saying they wish there was a gun with the weight of an all metal gun, but the flex of a polymer gun, so they could have the best of both worlds so to speak. i dont know how much of a difference the tungsten infused polymer frame makes over having an all metal or all polymer frame, but I'm pretty sure that was the reasoning behind it(and I'm sure other factors like already having the tooling and experience making polymer 320s, cost, and possibly retaining the ability to swap frames(though admittedly I do not know if this slide fits on other frames.)
Walther barrels have a step down chamber. It increases violocity which is why you feel that recoil impolse
Watching the CZ is truly remarkable. It looks good, looks like it fits well in the hand, etc. Even though it doesn't accept red dots as is, you can tell that it's very well made and well thought out design.
I picked up the legion and it's my favorite pistol. It eats any ammo. It's the easiest pistol I've ever owned to use and the recoil is minimal enough to keep my red dot on target
There's a lot of reasons to love MAC, but the CZ love is the icing on the cake. I have more cz's than all others combined. Beautiful guns
Something about that SIG... held it at a gun store and it was the first time I actually felt like I needed a 320. If I was still in Law Enforcement I would definitely consider it for duty. I think it is that happy medium between duty and competiton boat anchor. As for the "erratic ejection", anybody remember the good ole days when the early Gen4 glocks would shoot brass into your forehead? 😅
Some Glocks still do. Ejection is usually a SIG strong point though, but I've seen some P320s have similar issues
Can you educate me on why the ejection pattern matters?
Joe Nichols was wondering the same thing
@@Gary-Lazer-Eyes Early Gen4 Glocks, specifically the .40 22 & 23 would shoot the brass into your forhead or face. This was a factory issue that was resolved by Glock. Unfortunately many police glocks are bought and stored by the 1000's, so if a new recruit ended up with "new old stock" 22 or 23, this problem would resurface again. We are not talking a piece of brass on your shirt once in a while, were talking each shot smacking you in the face like you are standing over it.
...have a Sig P32 X5 Legion...and a few other Legion pistols...I'm a Sig fan-boy...but, the Legion has taken over my gun safe as my daily carry piece. For those worried about the profile and about concealment, the mag well can be taken off with a single allen head screw, and be pretty flat and sneaky. I DO very much like this sort of head-to-head of pistols in the same catagory, especially when mentioning price. I have a CZ (an SP01 Tactical) which WAS my carry piece. The only thing I'd change about that piece is the grips, for vanity's sake (which I've done)...great pistol...but, shooting the Legion is like shooting a kid's cap pistol. Light trigger, excellent action, accurate. I took my P365 out and shot it with the Legion, and the smoothness of the Legion spoiled me for the much jumpier 365. If you need a tiny pistol, the 365 is aces...but, if you want an all-around great defensive piece, there's no beating the Legion (in my collection, anyway). It took a bit of breaking in, and then it was a winner. Keep the comparison videos coming.
The PPQ is by far the snappiest 9mm fullsize polymer pistol I've shot. I assumed Walther's Q5's wouldn't be different so I was never interested, especially for competition.
I agree with this. The CZ TS and Sig XFive Legion are both awesome...
Adding the lighter spring might help with your ejection on the x5. With the heavier spring the casings barely pooped out of mine. Especially with 147s
The Canik TP9SFX has the same feature set as these guns for less than $500.00. 5 inch barrel, 20 round magazines, optics cut, extended mag release and a good trigger. I think the Canik is the best value.
Great review. You didn’t mention that the Sig is modular, allowing the swap of its FCU with their other grip modules (Carry, Compact, etc.)
19:53
I got my X five legion for $899 with a $200 Sig rebate.
When did they do the rebate? How did you find out about it. HELP A GUY OUT!
Another great review from you! I held the sig at my local shop and it truly feels amazing. Something about that grip texture has me sold
It's a very solid pistol, at least my example is.
You said you think the PPQ is 1 of the best defensive/combat hand guns. What is your top ranked Striker fired defensive/combat handguns? Im curious to know where you rank the PPQ and the P10C? Thanks for the greatr videos and any thoughts on this you might give!
I go back and forth on this. I think the Walther PPQ Navy and Cz p-10c Optics ready are best in the world for a defensive or combat striker Pistol. I have both and they are both amazing. Both are 100% reliable, Both have great ergos now that cz did away with the ambi mag release that took a hammer to release a full magazine. PPQ is more accurate at farther distance but cz is flatter shooting.
@@platinummarketingservices8448 I believe a better option for competition would be a PPQ Navy with the Slide milled for optic where you can keep the rear sight or a Cz P10 F optics ready.
My understanding is that very few machinist will mill a ppq because you have to mill into stiker channel. I wonder how reliable it is when doing that?
Tim the standard PPQ, PPQ Match and PPQ Match Steel Frame all have the same trigger rated at 5.6 lbs. The match gun triggers are just colored bling blue. You’re right on about not feeling a difference compared to your standard PPQ. You would think for the money, that the match guns would have lighter triggers..
There made for production division.
I am extremely pleased with my Walther PDP full size 5 inch-barrel for a lot less money than those fancies.
Thanks for this video...finally someone nails it with an unbiased opinion. The CZ is unbelievable. I've had nearly every Glock made, XD's, M&P's, the X5, the PPQ, etc., etc., and nothing comes close to the CZ. I still buy other polymer and steel guns for the enjoyment of shooting and to add to the collection, but my CZ TS Orange is unreal. Just my opinion, but I think it's something you have to experience to appreciate.
should try tanfoglio stock 2
Wonder if they are better than my Grand Power X-Caliber ? It has the rotating bull barrel, 2 different recoil springs, and a rather light (about 3lb) trigger pull....a great ‘nail driver’.
I'm excited for the 92X Performance, I can't wait to get my hands on it!
The one big problem i have with the cz is the slide. Its really small and i had a hard time gripping iy
Europeans have small hands😁
@@rayclay2299 Haha, I bought S&W MP9 instead of CZ because it has small slide. I am european and have small hands xP
I think you hit the advantages of that Sig frame right on. It gives you the weight of steel for competition, but mutes the recoil with the flex of the polymer.
Really a well thought out review, thanks for the informative and entertaining video
I have 3 Xfive, 2 original. 1 setup for carry optics and one production, I also have new Xfive Legion. If you add ext. mag release for 25USD and and greyguns trigger (once trigger in it at or under 2lbs), Legion comes with 1911 springs, original Xfive I added them so i can tune to my reloads. I have small hands and also ordered and got Xfive grip in small. I also have Barsto threaded barrel with Range18 comp. awesome system, can also get 21rd mags, change base and springs to get 23.
You're not wrong in thinking the CZ TS is the champ.
Had one and it was flat out the best pistol I've owned.
Nice Video!Thanx for it from Germany!My favourite is the SIG Sauer P 320 Legion!
While unpopular, I agree with you. I own an X5 legion and Q5 SF and prefer the X5 for all the reasons you mentioned. Next season we'll be running both in Carry Optics due to personal preference.
The sig trigger is awful
Fantastic information. Thank you.
Thanks Tim!! The X-five can also use the 21 rd mags, just not flush. Also would be nice to see CZ -75 SP-01 Tactical...
I use 21 round mags, because I hated the 17s. They were flush with the well and (as a personal preference) didn't get a warm fuzzy it was seating. With the 21s, get that nice solid seat in the mag well
Perfect video, thanks Tim.
How does the Glock 34 and M&P 5” compare? Features/Value
great review .. You should this series of your top four guns like this for ipsc competition divisions, open , standard , production , production optics , classic , revolver
Haven't fired the Walter, but my dad got the Legion. It felt like a 22. Love the trigger and sights. Didn't even know this was around until he pulled it out. Now I have to go to my dad's house more often and see what is new in the safe.
Great Review as usual. Long time since I received alert of yours videos, don't know if is RUclips or not. In Europe, CZ Shadow 2 has, from factory, the cuts for Red Dots, also a SAO model. Which has shorter trigger reach distance of the strikers models?
What happened to gauntlet tests? Miss them a lot! Bring them back!
1:35 in czech rep there is CZ Shadow 2 OR (optics ready) already offered on the cz websites.
Great video, thanks for the comparison. Would love to see a review from you on the Sig 9210 target!
Pro-tip: If the brass clears the action and the gun runs flawlessly, there is no need to worry about the ejection pattern.
Not true. Erratic ejection indicates future FTE'S.
@@bebo7002 True, except that there is a different, 1911 style, spring set in this gun and I suspect it will break in some and become much more consistent with use. I consider Mac's methodology of testing in this regard too be flawed. Testing with a firearm factory prepared to sit on a shelf isn't realistic. Everyone agrees that lubrication is critical for proper operation of ANY firearm. Lubrication for storage is different than lubrication for use.
I have a P320 X-Five & it has a Stainless Steel slide (which I've never seen a X-Five model w/ a stainless steel slide until the one I bought), but as far as I know it didn't come w/ any extra springs of any type & I for sure got it brand new too.
I ain't grippin', considerin' I got the X-Five for around $700-$750, I just have no idea what you're talkin' about as far as this "extra recoil-spring"goes??
My p320 X5 came with 4 21 round magazines...
Yep...but since the 21 rounders don't fit in the 140mm box for competition, they had Henning machine some fancy base pads for the 17 rounders which also makes them legal for USPSA production. Carry Optics competitors will likley be upgrading the base pads and adding grams followers/springs to get 23 rounds in the 17 round mags.
CZ is the good standard? (Laughs in STI)
Hey Tim. Are you going to be taking a look at the IWI Masada?
I’ll take on anyone with the Walter steel frame pro with an Apex trigger and the Trijicon Sro optic. I’m not a competition shooter however, my groupings at 15 yards are the size of a silver dollar at the range. I’ve even had the chance to go up against a qualified shooter with an Atlas nyx and we basically tied our groupings at 15 and 20.. not to mention I’m a novice with only three years experience and less than 100 hours of practice. Game, set, match.. Q5 that is..
Love my CZ TSO. Thousands of rounds through it with no malfunctions, and the mags are cheap and never needed tuning!
I 100% agree, I shoot my Tactical Sport Orange in Limited Minor (yes I know disadvantage but I shoot to have fun and I HATE 40). My suggestion would be to add the CZC extended wide safety and their aluminum trigger. The aluminum trigger is better that the plastic stock trigger as the aluminum one gives you a better reset feel and cleaner break with no flex
Would love to see an AR-10 review. Specifically, I'd like to know how a Springfield Armory Saint Victor compares to an M&P-10 and DPMS Recon.
Id put the red 12lb spring in the x5. That really helped my ejection with competition loads.
I wouldn't mind ejecting my load into this girl working at Taco bell. So hot
13:53 Tim, I know from USPSA with DA/SA guns you'd be required to pull the trigger while guiding the hammer down on a loaded chamber to start in DA. Cocked and locked start positions generally only apply to SAO guns.
And cocked+locked is only allowed in lim and open.
My X-Five Legion had poor ejection as well at first. After a couple hundred rounds though it spits them out in a nice pile about 4 feet away.
What spring are you using? 12 or 14lb?
@@Gen_Kael 12lb. shooting 147 light loads for USPSA.
I love my Sig P320 X5 Legion, I put a tungsten guide rod in it and man its a sweet flat shooing handgun! This gun makes you want to shoot it all day long. I got mine for $843.00
Which spring did you have in the X-5? The lighter spring works better for bulk/target ammo.
I own both the TS and shadow 2. The TS is bread for the Limited division but in .40 which mine is. It's an awesome pistol. In .40 it feels like a 9mm with my loads for it. My shadow 2 is my production pistol. It was specifically designed by pro shooters and CZ for that division. The legion and the Q5M can be used in production class. Possable for optics ready division minus mag Wells. But there are new rules for that division this year. All would be great for 3Gun also. I've used my TS for it a few times as well as my S2.
That Polaris back there is awfully clean!!
I've never tried the CZ 75, but from all of those who have, I've never heard anything but positive opinions.
Could the differences in 'ejection pattern' be a multifactorial thing? A certain slide and recoil spring, choice of ammo, shooter's grip and limpy deflection in combination.
"It has a hairpin trigger, you're always suprised when it goes off"
No thank you sir.
The CZ has the best ergonomics. At least for my hands. It is unlike the other pistols weary narrow in the frame in the top rear part of the grip allowing for a deep high grip bacause the web between your thumb and hand can sink into that recessed area. While on the other pistols the thick top rear part of the grip makes it feel "lumpy" to get you'r thumb around and you don't get as good of a grip on them.
Also the CZ SA trigger is awesome.
There is one pistol that was built for competition that gets very little mention or props. It's the Grand Power X-Calibur. I own one and these pistols are tack drivers. They are silky smooth and loaded with cool features. The match version is cut for an red dot. It's just an amazing pistol.
Heard great things about the GP X-Calibur. But there is no cut for a red dot that comes from the factory except in Canada, as I understand it. Am I missing something? Any way to put a red dot on or get a slide cut for the GP?
@@robertisaacson6259 not that I am aware of. Im not much of a red dot guy as far as pistols are concerned. There are a ton of optics ready pistols in the market now.
@@Stoogeman762x39 Thanks for this.
Looking at CZs website I see the TS Orange but yours has blue grips and mag well. Did you add these or is this a new model TS Blue? I totally agree on the new Sig X5 legion.
Obviously I’m late to the party here in 2022, but as a big Walther fan I was very interested in your comments regarding the Q5 SF. I own and have competed actively with the original Q5 in IDPA and absolutely love the the pistol as I am also a Southpaw and the Walther Q5 was the first truly full ambidextrous pistol I had ever got my hands on; however, I certainly Ky don’t want to pay $1750 in todays market for a pistol that does not have a marked advantage over the original. Thanks for this informational video!!
I have been watching this channel for years now and it just keeps delivering! Really great, But can you please convert your the measurements to metric? We do´nt have your goofy systems in Sweden, thanks!!
This is like watching someone who only goes to the driving range or mini-golf reviewing pro-level golf clubs.
"Wow, this sure hits the ball good. Feels great. It would be great for competitive use."
And yet he instinctively knows the CZ is the best... smart guy.
@@DB.KOOPER lol. But that's the problem, it's the worst. Not because the gun itself is the worst(it's likely the best), but because the rules of the sport he's recommending it for put it at a severe disadvantage.
Hello! Is this your new POLARIS vehicle ?. I like the fully automatic wheel cleaner, so clean:-) Thank you very much for your videos!
Tim, how would you say the Beretta M9A3 compares to these four pistols? Your review of it was a primary resource for my decision to buy one. So, I'm curious how you feel that it compares. Thanks for a great video.
Please can you do a review of the NEW Beretta 92x Performance 9mm?
SIG at 6:08. Love this video.
The CZ shadow is not a single action. It is a SA/DA. It doesn’t have a decocker and it is meant to run cocked and locked, but it is a DA.
I really like the Sig Sauer and the Arex alpha. 👍
Love the comparison and agree with the conclusion!
Two things
.1 Awesome CZ grip that makes the gun pop
.2 The Arex looks futuristic
I have the Sig XFive Legion. Just simply a fine, fine firearm!
I don't recall hearing a bad review of a Sig.
I think I would definitely agree with your pic of handguns.I also do like the trigger of the sig it could be a little lighter but it feels lighter than what it really is.
So we had my and a couple of lady's friends over shooting different hands guns to help decide what they like. We had a total of 20 different hand guns. Every one of the lady's preferred shooting the P320 Legion X5 hands down
What ammo were you running, looks like syntec.
I Love my CZ TSO, but I also Love my Walther Q5 Match SF Pro.
MAC great video as always, when are you going to review IWI masada 9mm hand gun? I first saw it on small arm solutions, Chris seemed pretty impressed with it.
Actually that Walther is $1500 retail. Its a slap in the face to anyone looking to get into competition guns. Walther was however nice enough to take mine back through their 30 day Shoot it, Love it guarantee. I agree with everything you said. The recoil feels about the same as my glock 17 while my Shadow 2 barely has an recoil. I attribute this to the Q5''s super long top compared to the relatively short grip. Horrible buy for $1500.
Could you test the new sti staccato p host there are a lot off People that wants a review.
Canik TP9SFx under $500 handgun with 20 round mags, flared magwell, and pre milled for 4 different sight types.
MAC, did you ever finish testing the CZ clone made by TriStar that was the size of your CZ 75 compact.
What I'm not seeing anyone address in the comment section is the Sigs heavy grip module. Here's why:
Sig wanted to make a competition handgun that felt phenomenal to shoot. They wanted the felt recoil to be reduced by making it a polymer gun, which allows the frame to "absorb" some of the felt recoil, but they also wanted the weight of a steel frame to reduce the recoil of the gun as well. Sadly, steel frames wont absorb any felt recoil, and they can feel snappy to shoot.
So sig did away with that by making tungsten infused polymer grip modules, and making slide cut outs to cut weight off the reciprocating parts. All of these little design features work hand in hand to reduce damn near all recoil from the weapon.
THIS will be my first handgun that isnt a hand-me-down. Cant wait to get the fuck away from this .357 smith.
I love this vid and i fully agree with your top notch choice. The CZ is the best. Thanks for this comparison.
Need a 10mm version of the CZ. Oh, I guess that's what EAA Witness Elite Match is for.
It would of been nice to see a glock 34 in that list just to see how much more you get with the others comparatively.
Pfff cz is still the champion
Can you make a post actually measuring the bore axis of a few guns? I don’t think the CZ is all that low, I think it just has a lot less massive slide. I had a shadow but never measured it
"I, I agree with you on every bit." What in the world? One dude turtle necks, the other slaps the trigger. :D
The only time I've ever come close to an ND was when someone handed me a modified CZ at the range. It was pointed down range and everything but NO SHIT, as soon as I touched the trigger, it went off. You mention the CZ having a hair trigger and...yea...then modify it and dear God. BREATH on it and BANG!!