Helluva Boss Has A Helluva Problem
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Helluva Boss is one of the premier Indie Shows, that has helped shape the perception of Indie Animation on the internet. I just wished the dads in the show did a better job of shaping their kids into functional adults. I uh, also think Hazbin Hotel will be of similar quality to Helluva Boss, for the reasons I talk about here. A video review/critique/analysis THING!!
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My Writing Lord and Savior Video
Prickly Characters Yahtzee's Dev Diary - The Escapist
Music List
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00:00 I. INTRO
04:37 II. THE ONLY CONFLICTS THE SHOW HAS
07:55 II. HOW THAT BLEEDS INTO THE CHARACTERS
08:51 III. HOW NOTHING THESE CHARACTERS ARE
10:46 IV. CHARACTER DYNAMICS
17:19 V. A "HEALTHY" CHARACTER
27:37 VI. CONCLUSION 
Развлечения
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Youve heard of "The authors barely disguised fetish", now get ready for "The authors barely disguised trauma".
She actually has a good relationship with her parents. I think she injects daddy issues into every character as a sort of crutch. It's a heart string she knows how to pull so she does. It's actually a bit lazy.
@@thispincer8404 She's just not a good writer. I'd like to see her as lead character designer/animator on something, but she doesn't have the ability to write a series herself. That's fine, hardly anyone can be a professional in two fields at once, but like, her shows aren't funny or well-written in my opinion.
😭
@@thispincer8404 If she has good relationships with her parents, than we go back to the middle "the authors barely disguised kink"
Why is the trauma disguised? Is it a spy?
Blitzo's unspoken pony obsession getting more development than Millie's entire character
Is there a lore reason why he is obsessed with ponies? Is he a brony?
It’s been repeatedly stated by the creator that Helluva Boss is a show dedicated to focus on the boys. Go watch Hazbin if you want to see mostly girls development.
Blitz likes pony?
@@TheGreatSalsaManYou say that, but tell me and be honest. Doesn't the show mostly focus on Angel and Alastor? All of the boys in that show have been focused on. Up to now, Charlie and especially Vaggie are boring as hell. Also, having your show gendered is weird.
@@TheGreatSalsaMannot really a reason to have a bad female character.
What youre favorite helluva boss character says about you:
Blitz: relationship issues
Moxxie: relationship issues
Stolas: relationship issues
Octavia: relationship issues
Loona: relationship issues, also youre a furry
Millie: well adjusted
Didn’t Millie have a bad relationship with that Shark Guy? The show never explains why she broke up with him and how much of an asshole he was to her.
@@samflood5631 the point is about dwelling on it, not having had bad relationships
Blitz: Horni
Moxxie: Horni
Stolas: Horni
Octavia: Horni
Loona: Horni
Millie: Horni
@@aceyspud551 Don't you mean Horny with a Y?
What about Fitzorolli? (Sorry if I spelled that wrong)
Millie isn't even as healthy as Viv tries to pass her on. She has three major character flaws: her anger issues, impulsivity and over-protective nature. But these flaws have only been used for good in the show so far. Whenever Moxie and/or Blitz are in danger, that's when Millie fights best, because she will do everything in her power to protect the people she cares about. But I wish we got to see an instance in which her "fight first, ask questions later" attitude creates a problem for the main cast. Maybe a villain turned a new leaf, but Millie doesn't trust them, so she attacks the character when they were only trying to help. Not giving Millie anything to do because she is "healthy" is just an excuse to hide the fact that the creative team don't have any plans to flesh her out.
Real😭like I actually want more of her character, and it feels like she's just there to be Moxxie's "overprotective and loving wife with anger issues"- like i feel like they could add SO MUCH MORE to her. Same with Vaggie and Loona. I feel like they're just THERE to be a space to fill in, without really going in depth with their characters. (And ik HH just came out and s2 is coming so hopefully we'll see more of Vaggie's development more.) but overall that's what it feels like for both characters rn. (in my opinion)
You’ve made a good point of showing that rushing into battle first is not a good idea, but this show has one note to play, and it’s not going to change.
Everything you listed was a positive 💀 Anger is healthy and she's just the right amount of over protective
@@BluBurryRae Tell me you didn't read what they said without telling me 😭"Anger ISSUES, IMPULSIVITY, and OVER-PROTECTIVE" are in the second sentence. Being over-protective is not good at all; there is no "right amount" of it. That's just stupid.
@@aster0id225 Maybe they meant she's just the right amount of protective.
“Vivziepop wrote Millie really well”
-Vivziepop
@e92312 To be fair, the last two episodes don't have anyone from the main cast aside from Blitzo (and Stolas) even appearing. It's one thing to finally get some development in regards to Blitzo's past relationships, but did we really need two episodes in a row focusing on Ozmodeus and Fizzarolli?
@e92312 Crimson was revealed in this season and already showed up in 2 episodes. Octavia hasn't been forgotten, she's just shoved back into the writing closet until it's time for Stolas to give her emotional pain again. Verosika has definitely been forgotten alongside the Cherubs and the Agents, the latter two showing up again relies on Viv remembering that the imps go to the human world for their job.
@@samiamtheman7379seeing as two minutes notice is like the best song in the series so far and really kicked as as a hole I don't see the issue
@@RyuKaguyaNGL the song was bad IMO, Vacay to Bonetown, House of Asmodeus, and You Will be Okay are the top three for me but HoA (lol) is obviously the best. Catchy, good creative lyrics, beautiful vocal talent.
Vivziepop got paid 50k for drawing some guys goon fetish
Characters with trauma: Cool but overused.
Characters without trauma: underused but under appreciated.
Sometimes a character whose just at one with themselves can be very interesting to watch, especially against characters who...arent that.
@@ORLY911 Exactly. They can still have problems without serious issues or self-loathing.
@@Looona_fan It would be interesting to see for example Blitz having issues with Millie because he sees her as this perfectly stable girl without problems and thinks of her as arrogant and better than him which could end with him developing an inferiority complex towards her.
@@danielbryx6437 Couldn't have put it better myself.
Making your charter have trauma is sometimes just an easy way of making character development, even easier when the trauma is, let’s face it, kind of common. People forget sometimes about all the other ways a character can grow, that isn’t through trauma. I also think people under use actually showing trauma develop, not just letting it be something that happened in the past, but something that happens as the story takes place.
@18:08 "MIllie comes from a healthy family, and that means that this writing team can't make her interesting" absolutely sent me 🤣
Do these guys think people who had healthy backgrounds have to be high strung? I'm confused.
@@opticalraven1935 No, it just means they are too amateurish at writing to make an interesting character without trauma as an easy crutch.
@@mrlaz9011true
I mean have you ever seen a protagonist or antagonist with a healthy family background? It’s not a common occurrence 😅
@@TheGreatSalsaManYeeah, but they can use something else.
They are trying to make a found family story without them becoming a family lol
Why is it a found family? Is it an adoptive family? Lore please?
They are no family, its more like a group project, they will work together and talk, but we all know that outside of the work they will never see each other
The pilot did make it look like that was going to be a big focus of the show. I know pilots are often different from the full series, but I still find it odd that for a show that likes having big emotional moments, those moments are rarely between the actual main characters.
@@nickthebabba7767Found Family refers to the kind of trope where two or more unrelated characters basically become family in terms of how they relate to one another; like how two characters could go from strangers to basically inseparable siblings by every metric except blood, or as you said direct adoption could also be seen as part of the trope.
700th like
They should have called the show Helluva Daddy issues
Ha! Fitting
LMAOO
..I'm sorry but this pun _(?)_ is horrendous 😭
“Helluva lotta daddy issues!”
@@ascrinkleyfellow what are you talking about I've never seen better 🙃
would've been nice if it was still about assassins going to earth doing their job
That’s the only thing I wanted from this show. The whiplash I got when it became emotional and sappy was real.
@@Wenoe3 Well..."good repetitive" at least works as comfort food. Phineas and Ferb. NCIS. Lucifer. Bad repetitive is just kind of exhausting.
@@Wenoe3 it would be helluva lot more fun to watch them do their job, I wouldn’t care if it gets repetitive
@@Wenoe3 honestly i would not mind a few episodes here and there like how it is now as it switches from going to earth to kill their targets episodes with crazy adventures that changes every assassinations, kinda like how it was with Ep 1-3-4 and other episodes that focus on hell like the loo loo land episode and harvest moon festival and so on
Omg YES
If Millie is supposed to be healthy, and everyone else is unhealthy, then I think Millie can be used as something akin to a mentor character, helping everyone else get through their relationship drama
This!! For now it seems she does that but only with her husband in off screen anddd Moxxie didn't even tell her about her father which would have been interesting he did to see her defending Moxxie from the beginning or being alert in that episode and we would see on screen how Millie protects the one she loves not of Loona insults but in a serious situation for him. I understand why they would choose they haven't already talk about that for the plot of the episode not being Millie being At least very passive aggressive, but I would find it more interesting in a show that wants to show relationships and dinamics M&M interact and comment the situation it each other themselves while we find out from their Dialogues and maybe a flashback that Moxxie went through something with him, It makes us feel that they really are a couple that has good communication and dynamics if they are supposed to be the perfect relationship that at the same time intrigues Blitzo how they are so healthy
Also Millie being a mentor with Blitzo who has relationship problems, especially if Blitzo's plot now is him trying to find and fix relationships from his past like Fizz. Loona doesn't matter because Millie doesn't like very much Loona and she shouldn't have to try to sympathize with her if she dont want and we also can make us see that Millie isn't necessarily the same with everyone, Loona treats her husband badly
But that would make a cast "boring" and nobody likes a boring cast
@@vanovasmith9586 What would be boring about it?
@@greenbutler3682 well the writers are already labeling Millie as a boring character, so it's not far fetched that they'd write the other characters as boring if they become healthy too
@@vanovasmith9586 I think they can manage it if they're able to make them take steps towards becoming healthier over time because then it'd be character development
"I think Vivienne might be nice enough to take criticism" oh you sweet summer child...
Should we tell him...?
@@PurpleSphere95 you can tell me. What happened?
@@gord3588she can’t handle a single drop of criticism without going on a twitter rant
@@Allister_TheGhostOkay, so confirmation that she is one hundred percent truly mentally ill
The way I CACKLED when he said that
I find it weird that Vivziepop is a girl but doesn't seem to know how to give a proper spotlight to her girl characters. It especially infuriates me with how they've treated millie. In the episode with Moxxie's dad, with the way it started out I thought we were FINALLY getting a Millie episode, only to steer it towards Moxxie AGAIN. The same thing happened in unhappy campers.
It's especially brutal bc the episode where Millie's family was introduced ended up focusing on the male characters (Moxxie, Striker, Blitzø). It could've been balanced out if the Moxxie's family episode focused on Millie, but no... It even started off in a way that had a lot of people thinking we'd learn something about Millie's past- we see her aggressively raging about an ex who she ran into, but then it turns out the ex is also Moxxie's ex, and it becomes a 100% Moxxie centric plot. We have to wait a year (no, definitely longer than a year at this rate) to find out the Millie and Chaz backstory
As someone who was a yaoi fangirl years back as a teen the whole show seems just basically a shipper's dream at this point. Nevermind 80-90% of relationships we actively see are boys love, never lesbiab or actively bi etc and girl/female characters are never truly properly explored as deeply as the male characters or feel as meaningful.
@@Rey_Palpatine She's a big Invader Zim fan and since Moxxie is voiced by Richard. It's clear that she's bias with Mooxie.
@@orangeslash1667 She must be one of those writers who focus on their favorite character but also make that character constantly suffer/lose. It's basically just a Moxxie whump fanfic, lol
@@Rey_Palpatine probably?
Literally, almost every character in the show has Daddy issues. XD Is Viv trying to tell us something?
@djeghnounsabrina5469
Are you a child? They said almost .
Also millie is the only one in our core cast that doesn't have it. Thats 4-1 characters with daddy issues being core to their plot. Its repetitive and uninspired
I mean so does the cast of It's always sunny in philadelphia.
@DiveBombRebel the cast of always sunny are also held accountable for being shitty people and we actually see them grow. Unlike the static crying cutouts in helluva
@@tbeast151 And yet they're still shitty people even up to season 16.
Father issues i hate that in so much shows because why the father it could just be the parents
I'm here after ep 6 of Hazbin Hotel, dropped the 'Charlie has daddy issues with her dado Lucifer - but it gets resolved within the same episode'
They generally look like they didn't have any issues at all.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql It's even more funny for me for this reason. it seems like a less complex situation here that the one Octavia has with her dad but even the characters themselves point out and talk about the daddy issues of Charlie with Lucifer in Hazbin openly like 5 times and even in the first chapter Alastor jokes about it lol
@@CipherRage-tp5qlI guess Lucifer was scared that his daughter doesn’t wanna see him anymore or smth, which caused Charlie to be sad *too* cause she thought her father doesn’t wanna see her anymore either
GAME THEORY!
How does charlie has daddy issues? He's trying his best not to mess up his daughter's relationship issues (Compare him with okko's real dad.)
@@Cringeshits *shrugs* She Just Does i guess
This is a crushing realization for me: Vivzie doesn’t understand what healthy well adjusted people are like. Helluva Boss was never really the thing I really got into. It’s kind of funny, but it’s not the Vivzie project that I was excited about. I wanted to see Hazbin Hotel: a deep dive into good, evil, rehabilitation and redemption… and now I’m worried that she and her writing staff lack the insight and wisdom to actually pull that off and that’s crushing to me.
And sadly that seems to be the case, sure she hit it on the head with Angel and Val, but the rest...... they lost me.
I see where you’re coming from but…it’s hell…I wouldn’t expect to see a lot of well adjusted beings down there. I would expect to see traumatized non adjusted people down there because it’s HELL. For you to even be down there means you’re not that great of a person even if you’re hellborn being around those evil people all day would probably make you not the greatest person. It would feel weird to see someone like that in hell, hellborn or not.
@@sweetberries2526 I'm not asking her to make the people in hell good. I actually expect them to be horrible scum. The thing that I'm afraid she won't understand is how good people behave or how to turn these sinners towards redemption in an interesting way... because she doesn't understand how people "turn good". Again, I haven't seen the latest episodes. I just haven't had time. So she very well may have nailed it.
@@gamera5160 I'd hate to break it to ya, but she really didn't. Maybe Sir Pentious, but that's the only character that actually, ironically, in an extremely round-about way, managed to fulfill the original premise of the show established in the pilot.
These people are literally in Hell. Do you really expect them to be "well-adjusted"?
What Millie actually wants is to be appreciated more. I wish the writing gave that more attention but it was noticed in Harvest Moon and Unhappy Campers.
Which doesn't make sense because Blitzo and Moxxie regularly sing her praises. The fact that this "desire" contradicts how she's actually treated in the show is just more proof that the writers don't know what to do with her.
Yeah, but the merch is pushing more of her sister than of her.
@@HebiHousethis is true but also based on popular demand; based on the amount of merch drops I’d say a big portion of budget comes from the royalties scrounged up from sales. That’s y they do rereleases for items and y they change designs so frequently
It keeps a steady flow without extending too much towards unsold merch while also almost guaranteeing the sellout of product
@@01eminasvolhamato I mean I get it, but it is sad that people are scrambling and scraping for Sallie Mae.
we’re getting a millie episode and a sallie may/millie episode soon!
So basically its a R18+ version of Steven Universe where we solve all our problems by either singing, crying and/or f**king.
Eh, at least Steven universe had a reason to be like this, and the story was overall well paced (IGNORING THE ENDING BECAUSE CN CANCELLED IT BEFORE THEY COULD PROPERLY DEVELOP THE DIAMOND SITUATION)
@@nisor123 The announcement of SU ending was aired back in season 3. but SU is still better than this trash
Is there a lore reason why Steven is a universe and why he cries, sings, and fucks? Is he acoustic or restarted?
@@nickthebabba7767 Nice slurs 8 yr old if you wanna actually sound "cool" or mature then try not to spew ableist bs in every comment you find.
Steven Universe was a show that dealt with genocide, relationships, and emotions. The show wasn't the greatest but it taught young kids that have emotions are okay.
I would compare Helluva Boss to Final Space. It has similar concepts but with better writing, deeper characters, and a creator that actually knows how to take criticism. We were done dirty.
I really like it when someone doesn't defend the show like it has 0 major issues but also doesn't attack it like it just unalived their entire family
The show unalived their family? Is there a lore reason as to why? Did the show have beef with them? Is it stupid?
@@nickthebabba7767 Your dedication is wild.
@@nickthebabba7767OFFICER BALLS!!!!1!1!!1!!1
@@nickthebabba7767damn, the member of r/batmanarkham was unleashed from containtment
Isnt that all helluva critiques on yt?
You forgot absent mother. What character besides for Millie even has a mom MENTIONED?? Only Octavia and guess what? Her mom is kinda absent and unavailable emotionally 😂
Kinda crazy since it happens in Hazbin Hotel too. Like, we get to see Angel Dust’s brother and sister, and his dad even shows up in an animatic titled ‘Daddy issues’, but there’s absolutely no info on his mom.
We don’t even know what Octavia and Stella’s relationship is like, I’m hoping Stella actually has a soft spot for her daughter to at least make her the tiniest bit complex.
Both Moxxie and Blitzo's mom got wasted for the sake of angst. Notably, neither of them have any dialogue and Moxxie's mom doesn't even have an official name.
@@Light-ro5bp personally, i think this Is somewhat the case. Neither Stella or Andrealphus even considered killing Via in order to inherit everything, and they call her "Via".
Not really Moxxie had a mom clearly. Octavia is a bit more unclear still.
From my personal experience with official works, fanfics and fanfic culture, it comes across to me Viv is leading her project (and the criticism towards it) like a hobbyist leads a fanfic: instead of writing down a structure that prioritizes what's necessary for the plot ahead, she builds the story on top of the tropes she's into ad nauseum, and any unsolicited criticism is seen as an attempt at "ruining their fun". That kind of atitude is the reason why fanfics are overall perceived as uncompromised amateur works which aren't to be taken so seriously. She's handling a professional project now, this isn't a DeviantART personal page anymore.
Wow, really? I kind of want to know the clear difference between official works and fanfictions structure. Could you give me an example? I can take this as another writing advice.
From what I've heard about Viv, she seems like someone who writes mostly according to her whims instead of writing from a consistent vision. There's this writing advice that goes "Kill your darlings". And if I understand that correctly, it means that writers should be willing to remove things that don't serve the story. For example, a writer may have come up with a character that they really like, but they can't figure out a way to naturally work them into the story. So if they're truly committed to making the story as good as it can be, then the character needs to be dropped. I don't think that's Viv.
I could understand a writer who writes primarily for themselves, but if that's the case then they shouldn't get mad at criticism. If all that matters is that you're having fun then what does it matter that other people don't like it?
@@Anonymous-bl8df There're a couple of comments posted on the video "Why Did Helluva Boss Fall Off So Hard" that I've always found particularly insightful on why people have problems with the show's structure. I'll transcribe them here.
First comment from @BradyRamaker: "This show feels immature. As in, from the writer's abilities, not their experience in life or whatever. A fully mature writer realizes a story needs structure. It needs a conclusion. It has to be contained, and limited in scope and scale. It needs to go somewhere or be something. And most importantly, it has to end, and you have to say goodbye to it. All of the Spindlehorse stuff I've seen feels amateurish, rooted in fan fiction sensibilities. Fan fiction largely exists in a realm of infinite potential and endless alternatives. It's a lot of untethered concepts being explored, because it's about playing with toys. Characters are dollies, settings are dollhouses. Every day you get to retell the same slice of a story, with the same general ideas and themes, going through the motions endlessly. But if you wanna tell real stories, you have to stop playing make believe. You have to turn your dollies into a character that exists in only one way, in a story that plays out in one way. For someone not ready to mature as a storyteller, who loves their dollies too much, that's terrifying.
That's how all the spindlehorse stuff feels. Dollies that they make kiss and make up today, but they're back to being mad tomorrow, and here comes the big bad meanie dollie! I bet it feels very important to the creators, but it gets stale as dogwater to anyone looking at this stuff from the outside."
Second comment from @greenisthedevilscolor784 "It needs to be said:
Hazbin Hotel/Helluva boss is what you get when you cross wish fulfillment with an actual team of talented animators and a dedicated fanbase of millions.
It's an overproduced tumblr prompt.
The writers (and this is a constant in Vivzie's passion projects in general) clearly liked the idea of making an adult animated series with an extended cast of characters, an episodic format but also a deeper narrative, actual stakes and emotional beats.
In practice, what they made is fanfiction featuring Vivzie's high school OCs.
All the characters, all the "plots" of the episodes are a big regurgitation of their favorite tropes, not particularly thought out or well executed, on behalf of a writing team that's not skilled enough to pull it off.
There are certain characters/dynamics that they clearly enjoy more than others, usually with the male characters (the damaged character who's an asshole but is secretly afraid of intimacy, the pathetic woobie who's fun to make fun of, the charming rogue villain, the annoying fuckboy you love to hate, etc.)
while everything else that they aren't interested in they happily half-ass (worldbuilding, god forbid any actual investment in female characters beyond "here to further x male character's emotional depth", pacing, balanced character designs)
This wouldn't be a problem if you were writing your own wish fulfillment on AO3, but if you want to produce an actual show, at some point you're going to have to grow up and actually put some work into writing it. Yes, even the "boring" parts that are not just your blorbos being quirky or pining for each other.
And if you don't want or can't do it, then hire writers who can.
You want hard hitting, character driven moments? Gotta put in the legwork and earn them first. Can't be all spice and no meat."
@@Anonymous-bl8df I am not an expert, but fanfictions are something people tend to not overcomplicate or care about structure too much because it is something they do strictly for fun, there is no need to keep your story consistent or stick to certain writing rules because it is at the end of the day just something people do either just because they see it as fun, they are fans of the product and want to express their passion for it or to gain some writing experience (or all at once).
When you make a serious product though that usually wont fly and you should actually try because when you make a completely new product you are not being a fan. You are being someone who makes fans and makes something for people who can be your and your products potential fans. It is about using what you've learned and making something of quality comparable to that of what is expected from a serious product. There are expectations to be met through this not just from others, but yourself as well.
I for instance write some Fics about HB and I take it with a more relaxed manner. Where sometimes I do not need to stick with certain rules because it is something I do for fun. But if I was to make a serious product like a book (which I may also do) then I need to actually put effort into not only the writing itself, but to also have it be a product of quality. A story that follows certain rules and where I need to put effort into the narrative and structure of this story because at this point I DO NOT make it just for myself or certain fanbase, I make it for the public to create fans.
@@AzraelSoulHunter vivzie clearly write stuff before her college years how come didn't she learn any writing lessons all those years ago? Now im started to scared of not improving as a writer despite doing it for more than a decade.
I honestly really miss the pilot premise, it’s what interested me in the show but the I.M.P has barely even done their job 💀 I mostly just watch for the animation and visuals now.
It’s honestly making me a little worried about how Hazbin Hotel will turn out…
It is painfully obvious Viv never wanted the setting to be Hell at all. Alastor and Angel Dust will be revealed as innocent victims with daddy issues who only killed rapists in selfdefense and Heaven is homophobic.
@@TOMNICEI know that her webcomic "Zoophobia" also had Hell as a component of the setting, so I don't think it's that she didn't want it to be Hell. I think she likes Hell has an aesthetic, but doesn't want to put in the work to make sure it's a consistent setting, which results in inconsistent morality and Hell feeling too similar to Earth.
Recently I read the official "Hazbin Hotel" comics "Dirty Healings" and "A Day in the Afterlife". What's interesting is that those comics have a darker tone than either the "Hazbin Hotel" pilot and "Helluva Boss" and show Hell to be a truly nightmarish place. If I had read those comics and seen the "ADDICT" music video when they came out, I would've assumed that "Hazbin Hotel" would be a black comedy on the surface, but would gradually emphasize that Hell is a horrible place and a lot of these characters are miserable under their quirks and jokes. But given how many complaints I've seen about "Helluva Boss's" problems with balancing comedy and drama and the fact that "Hazbin Hotel's" trailer puts more focus on the conflict with Heaven than on Charlie's mission to redeem sinners, I'm not sure it's going to work out that way.
@@Corrector1 Given how Viv's shown Hell, Earth, and even how angels act in the two Hazbin episodes that dropped, it's kind kind of clear that she's not great at worldbuilding since Hell, Earth and Heaven behave as the same place with different coats of paint.
@@samiamtheman7379I'd say literally coats of paint - the angels look so demonic it's confusing. Adam feels like an one off HB antagonist at that too.
@@helenakri7282 You know it's funny. If this was more consistent with Christian and jewish beliefs then having the angels look a lot like demons would kinda make sense. Because at least in Christian belief demons are all just fallen angels that followed Satan.
But it doens't at all feel like they're really going that route since they also have imps and many of those imps are BORN IN HELL so they aren't really going that route or at least they aren't doing it very well.
In any case it's still true that ultimately "hell" is just a coat of paint to this show. It's written like Earth but just with a different Aethetic.
Helluva feels like what you get when a creator is too aware of fandom culture. It feels like a fanfic of itself. Instead of setting a solid foundation, letting its plotlines build up while sticking to the main premise, it tries to jump to the juicy character bits as soon as it can without earning it. Season 1 did a good job making you wonder what blitzo could have done to so royally screw over all his relationships and how he could break that cycle. But then nevermind, his relationship with fizz is mended in a single episode and the rift was caused by a completely unintentional accident. Asmodeus and fizz go from a hinted couple who are somewhat antagonistic, willing to publicly insult demon royalty, to entirely toothless and lovey dovey. Also, I am so sick to death of the Moxie is pathetic storylines, its hard to see what purpose his character even serves at this point.
Why do they jump to the juicy character bits? Do they drink juice?
i think its cuz there's usually a huge gap between each episode so unlike hazbin they have to have SOMETHING major or interesting to come up each episode or people will lose interest, not to mention helluva kind of survives off of merch and stuff so its probably a reason things like blitz and mr clown guy had their relationship resolved so quickly.. but then again they did meet again in ep 7 where they still didnt like eachother and it was way after where they finally resolved their relationship but yeah
@@invertez3483 you make a good point, I’m sure a show with a release schedule like helluvas would be lambasted for a fluff/ uneventful episode, I just wish excitement wasn’t to the detriment of the characters and plot. Like maybe each episode DORKS gets a little closer to finding a way to get back at the demons or something like that.
Trauma is no excuse for using misplaced vengeance on others. It's a sign of sociopathy, a sign of selfishness, a sign of deceiving. Loona is hard to like. Every character is treated like a punching bag, getting the butt of the jokes every five minutes or under. It's mean-spirited and unnecessarily cruel yet when they use it as an excuse for revenge, it becomes pointless. No going back.
Saying Viv is respectful to criticism is actually so laughable, she’s extremely passive aggressive and attacks people on Twitter who have like 2 followers. Calling them “nobody idiots” while targeting them head on- god I don’t even wanna think about how many d*ath threats they get
I really wish she was just focus on her work rather than having conflicts to anyone who criticized or shit on her like this is what helluva boss is like in the writing, it always conflicts.
Well she is a teenager in a 30-year-old woman's body. The chick has to grow up and learn to ignore the criticism. Because honestly she's making herself look bad in front of her fans.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql Yeah, she needs to get her shit together.
@dommy5498, Damn straight! And she also once called people’s fan art of her show, “trash.” The fact that there are people who still look up to her is just nuts. 😔😔😔😔
@@blaria95 Yeah that sucks when something you like is made by a sh*tty person
Which is normally why people try to seperate art from the artist
It really bothers me how people use Viv as an example for their "indie projects are better than big studio projects" argument, when in reality her writing has the exact same problems as modern Disney and modern Family Guy.
Honestly, I never liked that "Indie = Quality" logic. Just because you're an independent creator doesn't mean you're exempt from making the same mistakes as large corporations.
@@Sr.BulletBill I think it has to do with "Passion", the same reason why indie games gets the same treatment.
But Passion has its downsides, sometimes it can let to obsession. (Viz is actually a good example of this).
@@Zhawn7Still eons better than the corporate philosophy.
Imo, the worst indie shows/games/art I've experienced tend to STILL be better than most AAA stuff.
Keyword being "most", as 1 in a 1000 of AAA stuff thankfully actually comes out good or okay.
But yeah. The reason independent art projects resonate so deeply within me is because they come from a place of passion, which is the primary key of ANY art project. When there is no passion, or even a passable idea, what have you got left to say about it?
You see it all the time in pop culture: the passion is just (to me) clearly almost never there, and somehow it almost always tends to revolve around money or fame.
I'm not saying money and fame can't coexist with a good project, regardless of its budget or its studio.
Thankfully, passion projects get made and see the light; it's truly the most important thing for any artist, and by extension, probably also an important aspect of all of society as well.
what in the actual fucking shit are you on about
@@gaetanodepaola2ndchannel179 The worst Indie games are basically unplayable unless you want to laugh at how shitty it is. That's only fun for like an hour tops though.
The emotional scenes don't even make me cry anymore💀
Implying they made you cry before? Lmao
did they ever?
im more surprised you even cried at all
@@TaeTae_08 I was a cry baby
@@TheManWithNoCreativeName now you're a grown up
Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel have proven shows based on flashy visuals made by animators if they don't have a strong writer and narrative they will fall flat when the flashiness of their animation isn't a novelty anymore.
“Novelty”? As in “Novel”? Is it a book?
@@nickthebabba7767 no, novelty from "new"
Viv creates adult shows that are meant to appeal to teens; I think design wise even if some are cool most keep the edgy middle school aesthetic and the humor I didn't mind at first but overtimes feels like it find that edgy teen audience where cussing is taboo enough to be the pinnacle of humor rather than consistently setting up jokes [something been called out before Viv refuses to change]. The excuse everyone uses of 'it's hell that's why' for every bad thing in the show is proof that parts of the audience, I think even more younger people simply don't care they have bad narratives or writing because the target audience is mainly just those who like edgy stuff. I find just as Hellavu has fallen out of majority of people's good grace over the years [and someone who genuinely looked forward to Hazbin pre-Hellavu really starting to suffer] Hazbin isn't going to be remembered as fondly as the majority of people who like it only like the fandom treatment of characters and takes. I even say this mainly as someone who got into both of these in my late teens-- but everyone I know who still actively defends both shows to the death are like 15-17 years old.
I also feel like what they got wrong was the lack of doing the jobs they were given in their first episodes. after a while the story COMPLETELY changes from demons going to Earth to kill people as revenge for sinners to them staying in hell (mostly) and dealing with personal problems. In fact, I'd say I.M.P could have been a great reason to bring the characters closer together as well as further their plots and give them less of a same-face syndrome issue.
like this:
The reason Blitzø started I.M.P is to avoid past relationships and feel less vulnerable which through his job he'd be forced to confront and slowly learn it's okay to not always need to be a cool, tough guy and how to better his relationships through hanging out with everyone individually on missions.
Moxxie would have also joined for similar reasons to Blitzø, except his problem is that he's too kind for a job as an assassin (as shown in an early episode), which could have made him bad at fighting and probably less respected by the team, ultimately leading him to try and prove his worth which would come in later episodes as the characters grow together and learn to accept one another like friends/family.
Millie is quite aggressive and maybe would have joined to take her anger out on bad people, and this could ultimately make her more angry or snappy with the others, as she slowly learns to express her feelings rather than get upset as she grows to like the characters around her than only seeing the negatives of them that may make her annoyed.
Loona would have joined possibly because Blitzø made her, and her lazy and unfriendly personality could contribute to her slowly learning to accept the love of her found family and become more functional member of the team through many people very blatantly telling her what she needs to be less lazy as well as realize this in more dire situations and learn to love the others as she realizes that despite her frankly snide personality they still love her.
OR since each character comes from different rings of hell (I think), they could each have struggles related to the cardinal sin of their ring (Millie is really the only one who shows this since she's from wrath and is usually quite aggressive). They could work through these struggles to ultimately become more like a family and team. anyway sorry for the rant I just had a lot to say.
Excellent ideas. I assumed that the series overarching story would be about the characters getting their shit together and becoming better people and I also assumed that the "found family" dynamic of the pilot would be given more focus. It doesn't sound like that's how it's played out.
A RUclipsr called Loves Art 23 redesigned, Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel characters.
And is rewriting Helluva Boss later on, down the line she is going to rewrite Hazbin Hotel.
@@fangirldreamer748 I'm sorry but that isn't cool. If they have better ideas, they should bring them to life with their own characters and world, not use Vivz's characters. That is no different than "art fixers" on Twitter.
@@BigBoi898you could infact redesign and rewrite shoes. It happens to shows on tv, helluva boss isn't any different
@@keyboardkets379 no, you cannot, if you don't own the rights to it, or are not hired by the rights owner to do it for them. Fan projects are different, but those cannot be claimed as your own either, and cannot be monetized/merchandised.
The thumbnail made me realize that everyone has daddy issues one way or another
Not Millie
@@pumpkinpai1725she does because her parents didn't like moxxie (i guess)
@@kingkaydengaming2786 lmfao that’s not daddy issues. That’s a stereotype of parents not liking their kids partner. Her family is literally the healthiest in the whole show.
@@pumpkinpai1725 yeah I know that
Exept for Millie (she's totally irrilevant)
I really dislike how all the cool characters are eventually shown to be soft and sad. Like, Stolas in the pilot was trying to get people to die of global warming and his horniness was a joke because of how absurd the things he said were. He ended up just a sad dad who occasionally likes to bang Blitzø but generally yearns for him. Asmodeus and Fizarolli had a great dynamic when they first showed up, they were both clearly evil and had their own personalities, but they also clearly meshed well in their own evil way. Now Amodeus is a big softy and Fiz is sad and traumatized and feels like a completely different character than the one we’ve been seeing.
It’s like Steven Universe with their sudden redemption of the diamonds. I miss when bad characters could be bad just for the hell of it. 😢
Stolas as a character really annoys me in how he's changed because he was a leader in hell!! Stolas deserved to be a bad, but Viv I think wanted to make her OTPs feel more likable and as if they worked together so of course that meant dropping the plot of Stolas sexually harassing Blitzo. It meant making him overly likable to want to get more screen time and then of course paints Stella into the big bad because every fujoshi loves making women the problem. I say these because the way Stolas was changed and the narrative to Stella feels more annoying because if Stolas was still slimey and held his negative traits it would make their pairing much better and fit into the concept of this is hell. It feels like Viv thinks the only way to make people like her characters is to make them into sympathetic archetypes when really it takes them out of the show into characters I find people have grown to like less. There is just no irony left for me of when people use "well it's hell" but then none of the character fit into what would make them interesting in hell [and being hell-born creatures].
I wish Fizz kept his RoboFizz attitude so so badly, hardly any character has bite in this show, and no a snappy song after a whole episode episode of abuse and revealed trauma does not count.
I feel the show has lost it’s way. It was clearly set to be one about assholes doing asshole things in a silly way. It was supposed to be more episodic.
No entendiste nada de nada XD Fizzaroli actuaba así en ese episodio, porque sabia que Asmodeus lo protegería sin dudar XDdddddfffff
One character trait of Millie's that they actively ignore is that millie is lowkey racist of hellhounds due to her upbringing. She refers to loona as property when she to her as "our only hellhound" and "our boss's hellhound." I think they should make an episode about that because even if millie jas a healthy family, that doesn't mean she doesnt have some toxic ideals or habits
Holy hell, Millie actually helping Blitz to be happy like her while telling Loona to f*ck off for being a disrespectful and ungrateful daughter was something I didn't know I wanted.
Is there a lore reason why she’s disrespectful and ungrateful? Is she restarted?
@@nickthebabba7767 all I can guess is her childhood of fending for herself in the pound
@@nickthebabba7767 tl;dr Shitty childhood means she pushes everyone away as a trauma response. She grew up in a terrible orphanage that's basically just a dog pound where everyone hated her and as a result she struggles to conceive of the idea that people might actually like her unconditionally, she starts to warm up to people as her character develops.
@@nickthebabba7767raised in the dog pound until adulthood
@@nickthebabba7767 Is she regarded?
Ah. It's an OC Fanfic, that's the problem. The concept was built from the characters, and the creator clearly didn't really work out what _story_ they wanted to _tell_ with those characters. It's the animation equivalent of a Coffee Shop AU. It's got nowhere to go so it's just disjointed slice-of-life treading repeatedly over the same character beats.
Gee if only Viv had some kind of... narrative premise, some overarching plot, something with inherent thematic potential, to shape the episodic plot of the show going forward and also provide a natural progression of personal conflicts and challenges for the characters to overcome in some meaningful sense. Like imagine if there was some specific goal for the characters to achieve that would require long-term narrative development and perhaps even radically change the status quo in the process...
"....OH, RIGHT! THEIR FUCKING COMPANY!"
When I write my OC’s stories I try and actually have an overarching plot that drives the characters to make the decisions they make. I love world building and writing themes into my stories it’s a lot of fun!
How poetic
Haha it totally bled into Hazbin Hotel too, they just had to give Charlie daddy issues.
It looked like she didn't have any issues with her father they seem pretty ok to me. I don't know what the hell was even the point to give her daddy issues?
It made sense before, but since they woobyfied Lucifer, it makes even less sense.
@@TOMNICE Yes, it feels weird, but HEY!, at least Vivzie seems to upgrate her writing skills!.
What is it with this goobidy gunk about daddy having issues? Does he not like stuff?
i mean her issues were more complex than just "bad dad", lucifer id s genuinely caring father it's just his anxiety gets in the way of connecting with his daughter. but when he finally reached out to her they talked through it and started to slowly mend their relationships
I think one of the weirdest things of the show is they introduce some genuinely intriguing villains/antagonists in the course of a single episode, but the next time you see them, they get pacified, if not defeated entirely, before they can continue doing cool stuff.
It’d be like if we were introduced to Darth Vader in A New Hope, but then, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke beats him in his first lightsaber battle shortly after making fun of his cape.
Didn't they do it with Palpatine in the new trilogy? XD (might remember it wrong, but the 'first lightsaber battle' got a Ray vibes for me XD)
@@ritaerror7829 Palpatine was asspulled in the final movie, and in order to "nerf" kylo ren's character, he would have to have been competent in the first place.
I think the worst/best thing is that even when we don't have any interactions of Millie and other characters, i can imagine some of them.
Millie and Loona: Very tense, with a lot of insults and some punchs sometime but when things get really bad work together and respect each other, maybe end up as friendship.
Millie and Blitz: Close friends with akward moments talking about relationships.
Millie and Stolas: Stolas psychiastrist
Millie and Octavia: Octavia Mother figure
Millie and Moxxie: The same as the show but more active, (we can use this as a joke, with the two acting like a competition of who can make the most big, and wholesome give/love performance, to the point all the office of I.M.P it's flooded with love letters and pluches and it's getting hard to open the doors)
Late but: Hard to establish character dynamics when one of your, supposed, main characters (and they have just FOUR or FIVE!) hasn't even TALKED in 5 episodes.
Actual episodes Season 1:
Episode 1: No notes. Good start. Sets a decent formula to be used as a spine for an episodic structure and episodes can be as high or low character driven as needed based on the nature of the episode.
Episode 2: Deviating from initially set formula already? I mean, great episode, so okay, but...maybe this should have been episode 4? Move.
Episode 3: Essentially 2 deviations from formula in 2 straight episodes? Re-write, to make it on formula.
Episode 4: We're back to the formula, and...it's another low character episode. Just because it's trying to be "lighter", doesn't QUITE justify it being THIS thinly sketched. Re-write.
Episode 5: Away from formula again. And the story is...okay at best. Those things combined means...Cut it! Striker gets introduced in an entirely different story with the same episode placement.
Episode 6: And, basically, again. The hallucination bits ARE good, but this is 4 shifts away (3 major shifts) from formula in 6 episodes. And, also...when are DHORKS coming back, exactly? Did they even need to be introduced yet, if at all...?
Episode 7: Okay. Story is dramatic and...good...but, of eight episodes, this is Season 1, Episode 8.
Episode 8: Okay, introducing The Sins IS a good idea IN THEORY, but: 1. Two in a row? And 2. Unless they had a REALLY good story idea otherwise? CLIENTS! This...basically a music video with extra steps...? NOT what I'd be talking about.
So Season 1 re-sketch:
Episode 1: Murder Family.
Episode 2: Spring Broken, Verosika as Client. (Her entourage are also "good designs", but they also basically don't matter, so...design them, but ultimately ear mark them as "For Verosika Spin-Off".)
Episode 3: CHERUB, Deeper.
Episode 4: Loo-Loo Land.
Episode 5: Stinger and Striker. (Yes, Bee and Striker introduced in the same episode, as client and an attempted hire, respectively. Yes, we lose introducing Millie's family, but...we, unfortunately, don't really...lose much, not introducing them yet? Introducing them here, when there's no additional story for them planned until Season 3? SLOPPY. And this also paces out the Season 1 Sin introductions a bit.)
Episode 6: Roman Candle Holiday (Let's say: Blitz and Moxxie are sick (having the Truth Seekers Hallucinations as C-plot?), so Loona and Millie have to go on this job to Rome. Tension ensues, Loona eventually screwing off and quickly falling into a blind date with a human as B plot afterwards, and Millie ultimately completes the job, as A plot, by launching the target with a firework. Yes, the ending pays off the pun title fully. And, if you REALLY want to introduce DHORKS in episode 6, Viv, maybe reveal the human Loona dated is One in the ending shot?)
Episode 7: Blitzo's Crimson Job. (Yeah, introducing Crimson before Exes and Ooh's. Blitz accepting a recurring weekend job, on the DL, for an imp mob boss, trying to establish some sort of trade route with Earth? Yes, kind of a digression, but you'll still notice something in this re-sketch: Unlike canon (where only 1 and 4 fully stick to formula), it both 1. has less digressions (4, 7, 8) than core formula (1-3, 5-6) episodes and 2. There's only ONE "major" digression (episode 8), compared to the...five episodes of major digressions the canon show did. And it adds history that a canon episode doesn't have.)
Episode 8: Ozzie's.
@@Volvagia1927 That's a brilliant reqork.
@@Fourger14 This honestly just sounds so much better.
No way she can fix stolas
@@Volvagia1927 I like how you think
The reason Millie is so flat and her relationship with Moxie feels arbitrary may actually be caused by the writers simply not knowing what a sound relationship or the life of a stable person is like. It makes sense when you consider how often the show sticks to the repeating themes of family issues and problems with exes. Vivzie may have lived a life with so few positive connections that she flat out doesn't understand how most people work, and that she views other people's relationships as idyllic things that only they can have, because they're simply too different from her for her to do the same. It would help explain her clear insecurities and responses to criticism too. This is not a fate I wish upon anyone.
True, imagine not knowing true love and compassion, imagine never experiencing so much trust in someone else that you feel totally safe around them and can tell them your deepest secrets ect. That you can entirely open your heart too as two people share true pure love.
If you grown up only knowing the opposite of that, to trust no one and only see anger and arguments and bad people, it would make sense as to why the characters are like this.
That’s fucked
Yet that is the life a growing number of us live in. The most soul crushing moment in my life was realizing a mother's love is always conditional.
Loveless is the human condition.
@@brianpembrook9164 edgy
The fact that she thinks that a person that latches onto another person and doesn't say or do much else beyond being that person's SO is healthy says so much. She believes a healthy relationship is being joined at the hip like a pair of Angler Fish (Look it up) which is stupid at best and toxic at worst.
The show is literally the same two plots on repeat: "meet this characters abusive father" or "meet this characters abusive ex" that's it.
Its funny how people have turned the writing format of these shows into a meme
Just add swears, gay sex jokes and more swears and repetitive trauma to make your show look deeper than it actually is
I think there was some intent to have Millie's flaw be that she was too passive and accepting of the shit behavior form people in her life, which you can somewhat see in the pilot when she excuses Blitzo's stalking and in the camp episode when she confronts Moxxie, but there's plenty of points to argue that it wasn't very well done. This is made worse by the fact that the pilot isn't even canon any more.
Though the pilot was also the only time she stuck up for him when Loona was being a bitch.
It's something that I've seen people talk about, but I don't think it's an intentional character flaw. I think it's more likely that they wanted Moxxie to be the show's punching bag, and didn't stop to think that someone as protective as Millie probably wouldn't tolerate it as much as she does. I'd also argue that there's a pattern of the writers being much less willing to acknowledge Loona and Millie's flaws than Blitzo and Moxxie's.
@@Corrector1 Yeah they really need to draw a line where her limits are.
It's hard to even say Millie has flaws since she's so undefined, but I've noticed when Loona's flaws are typically brought out they are jokes at the other character's expense, whereas all the men's flaws are used for drama. It is an issue.
She seems like a pushover when with her friends and family.
yeah i'd personally really like to see her lack of personality / general passiveness become like an opening to digging deeper into her personality. i think you've got a great concept there that'd make a very compelling storyline.
Which is sad as it was the one episode with the most inter character drama. Millie actually talked with Luna... so did Moxie which received a call back later. Was that still canon? It at least implies that off screen they talk.
The show we shall never see :(
This is the kind of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism Viv should be listening to. It's hard to take criticism for something your passionate about and worked so hard on, especially on the internet with avid haters who just shit on the show just because instead of adding something constructive, not to mention Viv's history of not being the best at responding to criticism. Maybe she should surround herself with a more diverse set of writers who can bring their insight and new ideas to the show, as well as looking for constructive criticism to work on the show's flaws. I like Helluvaboss, it's not perfect, but it's entertaining, has a unique concept, has good voice acting, and when it hits the right story beats, it works. That said, I wish Viv would stay offline for a little while and take time listening to other writers' constructive advice, since that would be more encouraging than spending so much time on twitter responding to anyone saying anything remotely negative about the show.
Pfft trust me, she wont and doesnt care about what anyone says.
@@artistanthony1007to her own creative and reputation related detriment, might I add.
@@artistanthony1007 You sure fam? She legit throws tantrums from constructive critism.
@@artistanthony1007 Exactly. She sees any form of critique as an attack on her.
@@mechajay3358 that's probably because it feels like that to her. not trying to psychoanalyze her (this is based on my own experience + lifetime of being around other writers and creatives), but a LOT of creatives, and maybe especially writers, put themselves and their deepest traumas or pain into their work, often without realizing it. studies show that writing is as effective as venting for processing and releasing emotions, so a lot of people gravitate to writing (and the arts in general) as an outlet for painful experiences.
if you're doing that as a creative or writer, and producing or publishing content in a state of still unhealed past wounds....yeah, any criticism whatsoever will subconsciously feel like someone is criticizing you (and your pain). that's what's usually going on when creatives take any criticism as a personal attack, no matter how fair and balanced it is. they subconsciously feel that it's their deepest pain that's being attacked and criticized.
even when it seems like it's more a straightforward matter of ego or pride--an overblown ego is just a defense mechanism for deep insecurity. it's like over-the-top armor surrounding fragile insides. so, criticize their work, and you criticize their insecurity/their inner fragility (or they see it that way at least).
New episode of Hazbin Hotel: Annnnd Charlie's got daddy issues too.
Dw she had daddy issues but then they sang and now everything's good now. Remember kids, if you have a bad relationship with your father, just sing with him and everything will be peachy.
I like Lucifer as a character. I think a lot could be done with a short super powerful king whose got big wacky ideas and playful personality and is king of hell. But there was no reason to make him the problematic parent. In fact, I think Lilith is actually shown to be it and not him. But I feel this about a lot of the show. Really interesting ideas and brain storming, but no full cohesion, at least not that we've seen. I still want to know what happens anyway.
Charlie? As in Charlie Day? Did he just get Luigi’d?
@@QuackZack I mean....her "bad relationship" was more so absent then actually bad.
@@vixxcelacea2778 Given that Lilith is being set up to work against Charlie, perhaps we'll see that she was the problematic parent all along. But it'll probably be less interesting than I hope.
This just makes me sad man... imagine how interesting the show would've been if they fleshed the characters out more and gave them unique dynamics with each other
“Fleshed”? As in “Flesh”? Are we learning anatomy?
So what you are telling me that we can basically see any bad actions of the characters as being fatherless behaviour.
Yes.
LMAO
@@vittoriomassaro8131lmao 💀
Is there a lore reason why they are fatherless? Are they self insert characters?
@@nickthebabba7767is there a lore reason you keep making shitty meme comments? Are you fatherless?
Helluva Disappointment
A show that started off rather strong and had so much potential, then once Season 2 started, the excitement just wanes from trite stories, lack of pacing, and straying so far from the premise into exploring Viv's Hot Topic Hell
Season 1 was alright but it just got worst when season 2 released. That camping episode was like the last straw for me. I honestly don't like the show anymore as much as I did. The characters being obnoxious and loud or either acting like angsty teenagers spitting out constant sex jokes all the time got really annoying over time. Hazbin Hotel will probably be just as bad as helluva boss maybe even worse.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql Yeah I dont really care for the constant sex jokes and edgyness, but I really did love the interactions between loona and octavia. I really wish they would focus more on character building
Why is it a disappointment? Are you it’s father?
Is there a lore reason why there is a Hot Topic in hell? Is they stupid?
@@nickthebabba7767 Evidently not, Vivzie writes an awful lot of bad father figures in the show... 1 ok, 2 kinda pushing it but sure, more than 4 - ok this is a theme of some kind or Vivzie is getting too personal with it. Not sure which but it's tiresome and monotonous.
I originally wished the show to BE ABOUT ASSASSINS. The second episode quickly changed my mind.
“Wish”? As in Disney’s “Wish”? Was it written by AI?
"Oh boy I sure hope they won't write HasbinHotel the same way... " right?
...
RIGHT????
This is probably one of the best helluva boss critism video. Most of them only focus on the flaws but very few show how to solve those problems. It's easy for learning to improve writing skill. Thank you.
I love it, a lot of people forget the CONSTRUCTIVE part of criticism.
“Criticism”? As in “Critical”? “Critical” as in “Critical Hit”? Is it a video game?
Vizviepop needs to listen to writing criticsm or get a mentor that can help her where she's weak. She is educated in animation so that's very strong. But the writing is where she needs support
She's too blind to criticism
She doesn't even do most of the animation any more! She hadn't for a while and barely does the writing either! She can barely take credit for any of this!
Really? @@enderwalkgang
@@enderwalkganghad no idea
@@enderwalkgangIs there a canonical lore reason for why she doesn’t animate or write? Is she lazy or restarted?
The show's writing isn't bad because of any major creative decisions or mistakes. It's bad because there fundamentally isn't anything good about it. Nothing compelling, engaging or interesting. It's the writing equivalent of plain popcorn
The only reason anyone remembers Millie is because she’s hot.
I also missed that Millie was a character and not just Rule 34 bait.
Digital Circus, Lackadaisy Cats and Monkey Wrench are all going to hopefully put the right kind of pressure on this show to get it to improve.
I mean….it seems that the show in its current incarnation seems to have lots of fans so I don’t think they’re gonna let a few naysayers away their creative narrative.
@@henrylivingstone2971 They're hemorrhaging viewers as they go and a few diehards and fanatics can keep it going however long despite quality, but hey if you like it you do you chief.
I don’t see why they would? People aren’t going to watch helluva for reason they watched Digital circus
@@Kannac
As long as people are buying the merchandise why does it matter? The attention of an Internet audience is ever fleeting. You think Good Mythical Morning is getting the same views as they were in the 2010s?
Of course not. But they have enough fans to continue being the top earning RUclipsrs. Just enough people have to be fanatical enough for a RUclips channel to stay afloat.
@@henrylivingstone2971 And that's fine. Like I said, if you like it, you like it regardless if I think it's a trainwreck of a show that doesn't know what it wants to be. You do you chief.
I mean . . . they kinda changed the premise from "assassins doing badass shit" to "sad uwu backstories and sad uwu relationship drama". Not to mention that they're pushing Stolas as a sad uwu owl boi who's done nothing wrong and is being wronged by Blitz this season - meanwhile, in season one he was clearly manipulative and if he was falling, it was slowly. They're erasing the fact that Stolas has done so many bad things in favour of shoving Stolitz forward as a plotline and honestly, the character arcs suffer from it. I WANTED A REDEMPTION ARC DAMMIT. (Aaaand all of the female characters are ignored or villainised so that's not great.)
No but dude I laughed more during this video than I did the entirety of Season 2 so oof lmao
Nah it still is assassin shit not just "sad uwu" stuff. No Stolas still is flawed and negatively affected others and in Season1 he did clearly genuinely like Blitz. They aren`t erasing that fact at all, and the character arcs haven`t suffered from it. Well they still can change. (not really they aren`t all ignored or villainised.)
Stretch more, junior. @@jaydenc367
@@jaydenc367 "Nah it still is assassin shit" For a single episode.
Yeah, I fell off when they randomly put that stolas and blitz met as kids for some reason. Felt like they were trying hard to uwuify everything and go "see? They met as kids they BELONG together" felt like the stupid ship was shoved down my throat
What makes me mad the most is the fact that 90% of the fandom hates Stella for being abusive and hiring somebody to kill Stolas, yet barely anybody hates Crimson for abusing Moxxie and possible killing his wife. And killing many other demons such as Fizz and Blitzø. There are many people who simp for Crimson and it just seems wrong
People defend the terrible character dynamics, episode plots, nonexistent character growth, and repetitive issues with "well they're in hell". So? Zombie apocalypse movies and tv shows exist and the writing, plots, and character growth is still good despite the end of the world happening. While they most likely have their own issues, it's not as mundane. And if it does get mundane, it gets like that when the series keeps getting stretched when it should'ved ended (like say season 7 or so), not in the first and half of the second season.
Nah calling viv polite and open to criticism is a joke. Her twitter is a mess.
Everyone on twitter is a mess my guy, i am not a fan of viv(heck i dint realy watch her shows) i am just saying that sometimes it's better to ignore what on twitter knowing what kind people there on this website
Nah calling viv polite and open to criticism is a joke. Her twitter is a mess.
@@Nebula_le_Alienthink you forgot to copy and paste that to the main comment section and not the replies of the person you copied it from
@@weirdcakes304think you forgot to copy and paste that to the main comment section and not the replies of the person you copied it from
Why is Vivziepop not polite? Is there a lore reason or is she restarted?
My problem with helluvaboss nowadays is it's pacing, it tells you to feel shocked one moment without any build up, its fast pased on the "emotional scenes" like the creator is trying to get it over with. Like with loona in the kennel, the expressions change so fast i feel like im being wiplashed by things the show wont let me process before it just jams in another plot point that will not be explored, and when it is explored, they either retcon a bunch of stuff to add more "shocking" moments. Its an endless cycle of one uping its spectacle without caring about the actual quality.
The way I've seen a few people put it is that "Helluva Boss" is too busy chasing the "big ideas" to do proper set up or follow through, so the series feels disjointed as it jumps from one thing to another and some of the emotional moments end up feeling hollow because they haven't been built up well. I think it's one reason why people sometimes accuse the show of having fanfic sensibilities, because more professional writers know that you need to build things up properly and that you shouldn't just jump from one big climactic moment to another.
@Corrector1
I don't like the fanfic comparison, because fanfiction is just another medium that seems to be shelved, the quality of fanfic Is only considered 'bad' because of its accessibility for anyone to write.
Anyways, you almost perfectly put down what I was trying to say!
@@evandugan2262it's writing is like Miraculous Ladybug. I think that's the perfect comparison.
@@evandugan2262 Mediums are generally built up their own standard. And fanfics, since they are so accessible, are generally of a lower quality by sheer majority. Same goes for writing in comics. The term "comical" is seen as pejorative for a reason.
@@evandugan2262 Fanfiction is another medium, yes, but it's also one full of low quality and bad writing. It's not bad due to its accessibility, although that does play a part in why it's considered low quality.
Millie also says to Moxxie "Careful you'll hurt THE hell hound" in the first episode. When Moxxie misses a shot at a target Luna is holding. Between that and the episode about Millie's family home. I have heard some people speculate that Millie was originally going to be racist toward hell hounds.
I've always been unclear if Millie is supposed to be genuinely prejudiced or if it's just her way at getting back at Loona for her shitty attitude. Even Loona never reacts to it with anything more than mild irritation which makes it feel like it's not being treated as a serious character flaw.
@@Corrector1 Hell hounds are supposed to be bottom tier in hell. I mean he bought her from an orphanage that keeps kids in cages. If people don't have anything to say about cages. Then they probably wouldn't get upset when the person who was just in the cage is not recognized as a person.
It would've been better to have Millie be unintentionally racist. Because she grew up on a farm and most likely had Hell hounds help work the fields
@@MASTEROFEVIL not the black slaves allegory.
@MASTEROFEVIL That could work really well with Lo's idea of Millie and Loona being polar opposites with lots of friction. Millie could, whether purposefully or not, regard a lot of Loona's maladjustment as stereotypical hellhound behavior. That could set up for them having an arc of finding common ground, with Millie letting go of her bias and seeing Loona not as a lesser being, but as a young woman who went through a lot of bad stuff and who needs understanding and positive role models in her life. Likewise Loona could become more willing to address her problems and let people in.
They're already doing the Daddy Issues trope all over again in Hazbin with Lucifer. The cycle repeats. Also the cannon keeps being changed and rebooted which I'm getting fatigued with. The animation and musical scores are amazing, the artistic detail is delicious and sophisticated. But Viv's franchise leans entirely on the spectacle, the characters and the water they're supposed to carry for the plots are as deep as a kiddy pool. It's basically the formula for most of the Marvel movies at this point.
Why does daddy have issues with Lucifer? Are they rivals? Explanation please?
What do you mean the artistic detail is "delicious"? You eat art details?
Its sad i did not reconize the pattern and i feel so stupid now because the newest episode was RELATIONSHIP ISSUES AGAIN.
I think the main issue is that the plot isn't plotting fast enough, and let me explain why.
With 2 episodes (3 if we're counting his appearance in s1 e7), side character fizz became new fan favorite. Those episodes had looks both on his past, present and future, his dymamic with people around him and an insight to his view on his current life. Through the episodes we see him grow and the growth stays with him to the next episode. That all happened within 2 episodes, meaning it is possible to introduce a character, get people to know them, throw them into difrerent situations and with different people and learn about them both how the world sees them and how they see themselves.
Within the small time of screen time he's had (2 episodes and a few cameos) we've gotten introduced to him doung something he's good at (performing) watched him struggle when he's thrown into a situation he's not good at (hostage heist) and then gotten to see liteally behind the scenes of what everyone thinks he's good at but actually struggles with where a lesson is learned and his character grows.
The same process can be said about blitz, we were introduced to him with something he's good at (being an assassin) and we know what he's bad at (relationships and vulnerability) but we never see any of it, it's always either told (like in truth seekers) or not shown at all, and just something we know. And until we're shown that, his character can't move on because no one's there to call him out on it so that he fan realise it. And you can only keep an audience hooked for so long.
The reason why fizz works so well is because we see him push people away while he's blinded by his own insecurities, even make a red herring out of mammon, making us and ozzie believe he keeps selling out for him. Thought the episode we see him push both ozzie and blitz away in order to avoid his issue, but we're not the only ones that sees it, the characters do as well, and that's why they confront him about it, until he can't deny it anymore and admits the truth, which unlocks the path of acceptance and the ability to move on (which he does as he decides to finally stand up for himself and quit)
Now compare that with blitz. The only time he's been shown pushing people away, it's with stolas, but stolas isn't the one to call him out on it (that we've seen) nor is anyone else because we haven't seen the dynamic with them (as talked about in the video) which hinders his character from growing the way fizz did. And we've been 'waiting' for a good season and a half for him to even have that wakeup call and act on it.
Ok long rant, ik sue me, but my point is, all the fizz episodes (as much as I love them) only prove what could have been if that energy was put into our main cast instead of putting the spotlight on a side character when the main ones had all run into a writer's dead end. People be saying ozzie and fizz are blitz and stolas but better, when really from a writer's perspective if we want a happy ending of blitz and stolas, ozzie and fizz should be the end goal for them, not separate characters. Instrad of putting all that energy into making them, explore how blitz and stolas could possibly get to becoming them (as well as their struggles and sucesses along the road)
And i know they're writren to be foils to each other, but that shouldn't come at the cost of the writing and focus of the main character. Hell, if they had the role of millie and moxxie (barely there but something to aspire to be) and millie and moxxie had the role of ozzie and fizz (focus wise) secondary characters that still have their own thing going on the dynamics issue would be fixed. Blitz even has more dynamic with fizz and ozzie than he does with his own employees and daughter-
Idk if this led anywhere, tldr, fizz should either have less focus or have more, cause rn hes a side character that stole the thunder and writing that should have been put into blitz, our main character.
For me, it's the inconsistent significance of the payoff to a lot of the setups we've gotten, the most egregious ones, being Ozzy's and Western energy.
yeah personally i only became actually interested in the story after the recent 2 episodes with fizz. he's got an interesting story and dynamic to tell there and i want to see what happens. for the most part the other characters lack this type of depth. blitzo's relationships and in generaly blitzos trauma are the only parts of the story i feel show any real character depth? he may be the main character but when no one around him seems to have any real goals or multifaceted personalities not simply defined as like 'wife lady', 'punching bag', 'angry daughter x2' it really doesnt make for a very compelling story.
@Neonlazerbeams the key is dynamics. Why fizz feels like the new main character is cause in his 2 episodes he's interacted with more people than I think even blitz has, and he's been in more situations, both in and out of his element, and that's what draws an audience in and make them want to see more interactions with this character and more reactions to different scenarios. I'm not interested in what the m&ms are doing in any given situation, I barely care for loona and octavia, blitz sure, but fizz so far is the only one that not only got the depth the others desperately lack within 2 episodes, but he's genuinely charismatic about it too (though that one is kind of his character trait, that he's a jack of all trades and can work his way onto literally any scene and make it work because he's a performer at heart)
THIS
100% agree. This is why I didn’t watch the recent fizz episode. I wanted to see that kind of development and energy put into the main characters. I don’t understand how fizz’s character advances the plot at all. I get wanting to have fun with your cast and do cool things like little spinoffs, but that only works when your plot is able to sustain those moments (which should be moments). I think a great example of what helluvaboss is trying to do is something like the OG adventure time. But it falls very short of it.
IT WAS SO FUNNY WHEN THEY MADE MILLIE GET HER LEG STUCK IN A RAT TRAP JUST SO SHE COULD GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE EPISODE LOL
Why did she step in a leg trap? Is she stupid?
No- you are actually right. I didn't even think of it like that 😭
... they probably just don't know what to do with her
HELP
Update: Millie has a new recurring character trait! Getting stabbed in the leg!!! Wow!!! What personality!!!
Many Helluva Fans argue that Stella has always been a terrible person.
But when I demanded they give me proof that isn't from Season 2, the best they can come up with is that she didn't comfort Octavia in that one flashback. This "proof" is irrelevant. Because from what we can tell Octavia seemed to hate her Father more than her Mother. In fact she never talked bad about Stella at all. Not only that she seemed to show sympathy for her Mother due to the trouble her Father caused. And considering that they are supposed to live in Hell, ya know that god awful place, Stellas response to being cheated on seems to be fairly justified.
So yeah I remain in the "Stella is not Evil" Camp.
I’ve been very annoyed at Helluvas writting for a while now, but I’ve never considerd just how little each episode offers in terms of plot-character dynamics. You’re right it’s always a relationship or dad issue episode! And then they try to pull the waterworks. You know, my fav moment in Helluva that actually made me feel wasn’t even a “cry”moment. It was episode 6 of season 1. When Blitz says to Mox “you kill good and you think to much of others opinions” “you know my name use it”. THAT was small, and believable (though low key out of nowhere but I digress, good seen in a vacume). It doesn’t always have to be this big “tear jerking moment” I want more small scenes like this. And yeah..nearly the entire group of characters have no chemistry cause they are never allowed to interact for more than 2 mins! I wanted a found family show, not an “ acquaintances telenovela!” 😂
Yeah it just always been relationships (Mostly Stolas and Blitzo) or daddy issues. I cringe all the time when the characters are sharing like this fake ass sad moment together. XD Wasn't this show about Blitzo and the gang going to earth and assassinating people? What the hell happened to that?
@@CipherRage-tp5ql I KNOW in signed up for a Hellish sitcom about assassians! Not this whole will they wont they and fake 😭😭 moments! Not every episode has to have one of these. They needed to spread them out alot more aswell as set them up alot better.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql fr tho its in the very _name_ -- "Helluva Boss" gives me the implication of a boss's relationship with his employees and how they will progress, but we have diverted so off that path into angst and daddy issues the writers themselves forgot about it lmao
@@paradoxtatorstudios9681 i mean what do you expect it's a amateur production on youtube. The animation stands out a bit but otherwise the writing is what i would expect for this kind of thing.
My god, now you mention telenovela and it all falls into place, change the names and setting and it really is "Eduardo is in an arranged married to Estella, due to their powerful families forcing him to marry her, but in his heart Eduaredo is truly in love with Manuel a simple pool cleaner and father to his adopted daughter Lulu, a poor girl with a tragic background." and so on.
It all makes sense now!
I was inspired by Vivziepop to create my own Indie cartoons once I get older and I heard about the problems and I promised myself I will create the best indie cartoon you’ll ever see and I want to make a whole franchise out of my universe.
good luck😁👍
Thanks I will need it but I will give you a hint of the title
“Endoor Magi Impact”
good luck my guy
@@clarkabeast8136so what's the premise of the show
Trauma can be used to help create a complex, deep, and compelling character. It gives a great vessel to flesh them out. The only difference from HB is that these good trauma characters grow and overcome their pain and trauma. They become stronger as an individual and the audience will cheer them on. What HB does with most of its characters is just “PLEASE FEEL BAD FOR ME!!! EVERY SECOND OF MY LIFE IS PAIN!!!”. That gets old.
“Complex”? As in “Apartment complex”? Do they live in a hotel?
Helluvaboss fans need to watch this. I really dislike how fans see this show as deep or compelling when realistically, they like the style and the designs and "dynamics" of the characters and are importing their own head canon on to them or looking at each episode in a bubble.
Im afraid not all of them should see tho. I saw many "don't like don't watch" respond from die hard fans. Now Im kind of afraid them calling me hater for commenting on helluva boss criticism videos even tho I just want to avoid writing mistakes this show have.
@@Anonymous-bl8df Well, i guess that explains the fanbase huh...
Ngl almost all fandoms of literally anything are the exact freaking same with this "criticism = hate"
You summed up my enjoyment of the show pretty well
I fully agree with a ton of the criticism on here, but I also find the story compelling. As in, I want to know what happens. I want to know how Alastor (which is undoubtedly the main driving character that draws people into the show, him or Angel (which yes, is telling to how Viv writes female characters considering Charlie and Vaggie should be the main focus. Though, Carmilla, given her being a weapons dealer, but super family oriented and the theory that Velvette might be her estranged daughter could be amazing)) got his powers and who he's made a deal with. I want to see Sera's response to what the hotel has achieved and how everything in the last eps of season one cause a ripple effect everywhere. I am invested in the story, even if I can tell there are plot holes and things that don't make sense. The character dynamics are good too, at least most of them.
It absolutely is a fanfic/tumblr story come to life with fantastic animation and edgy topics, but it is fun, at least for me to watch. And outsiders too, considering a friend of mine got into it unprompted simply because it showed up on Amazon. Viv is living the dream that many who write fun stories/animations for themselves to share with others would love to do. And makes bank doing it. It could be better and from a writing standpoint it falls flat, but it's also working. Flashy animation, some interesting character dynamics and enough twists and turns to keep a person wondering what will happen often are enough. I wouldn't complain if it got better, but I personally enjoy the series even through the plot holes I jump over.
Why do they have head cannons? Do they shoot cannonballs from their mouths, thus making “head cannons?” Are they Lockdown from Age Of Extinction or acoustic?
so basically
the slight issue with this show is that
it needs more plot
A show lacking plot isnt a slight issue. Its been aimlessly hopping from one dance party episode to the other with the same tired yaoi drama/daddy issue topic when theirs a wide array of other things they could be doing instead of shotgunning trauma bait before actually getting us to actually care about our main cast
Less gay owl sobbing and more badass fights like the pilot originally promised? Yes please!
I hate the fact that it nosedived into essa telenovuela basic ass will they won't they ass manipulation that is 'stolitz'
@@Cyburim In other words, to quote Stolas from the actual show.
"That's a mood Gabriella.."
@@tbeast151yeah. I can't stand the Blitzo and Stolas plot, it's incredibly toxic, forced, annoying, and full of yaoi tropes.
The fact that people are calling a gay relationship "yaoi" sends me 💀 they still kill people but we're getting more world building and lore (in case no one noticed we got at least 3 new sin lords introduced), more relationship and personal backgrounds for the characters, more side characters... Also this is a very gay show, how are people complaining about the gay is beyond me, if you want heterosexuality go see literally any other show💀
Great video! I did sort of wince at the “hopefully Viv listens to criticism” line because she herself has admitted that people told her she couldn’t take criticism since she was *17*.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Hazbin drops and she makes another tweet/thread clapping back at the “haters” and then continues writing the same plot until her fans get bored and support another indie project.
Edit: lol
Did Ayylmao really sexually harass two lesbian girls?
Oh looks it’s the guy who lied about someone sexually harassing two girls
@@CallOfTheDragon885How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie? Is he stupid?
"Vivienne seems nice in tweets" well that aged like milk lol
This age like fine wine after season 2 ep 8
I'm glad that people are talking about the problems of this animated series. Seriously, it had such great potential, atmosphere, unusual style, but the more I watched it, the more disappointed I became. Of course there are good moments in it, and I like many of the songs, but its very construction is not durable, because of all these problems with the characters and the script, and it makes me sad. I have concerns that this could happen to the Hazbin Hotel. Anyway, thank you for your video.
People have been discussing the shows problems since season 1 dude. Its problems have only gotten more prevalent as it continued
@@cordyceps7531 Yeah this show is not great. It has a lot of flaws. Mainly the writing with it's characters and story overall. And it's probably not gonna get better any time soon. And hazbin hotel will suffer the same problems.
@@cordyceps7531 Oh, that's good, I'm just not from the English-speaking community, and therefore I might not have known about it.(I also speak English poorly and use a translator)
@@CipherRage-tp5ql i mean it's a youtube project made by a non industry person, like what were you honestly expecting? Like i like helluva boss but i never expected the writing to be anything better than amateurish at best. The show's highlights are animation and sound which again are good to be notable on the amateur space but again, Helluva boss is youtube production.
Not all of these are really problems and it still is durable.
I really wish Loona had more screentime. I would like a whole damn EPISODE about her. She's got a fantastic backstory that could open up so much about the economy and social class of helluva boss's version of Hell. Her backstory is the only one not consistent of "hehe daddy issues and ex's go brrr" and could actually be such a compelling look at what that version of Hell did to normal people. Not murderers, not mafia boss kids, not circus kids. Actual, everyday people. It could be such a great metaphor to real life and take the sorely lacking themes of this show to a whole new level.
But no. wE cAn'T hAvE tHaT.
Yyyeah this show started off fun, but it crossed into unwatchable territory. I’ll peek at episode synopses to see if they’re worth viewing, but the days of giving episodes the benefit of the doubt are done. It’s tough to watch it bounce between either uncomfortable or disappointing.
I think Vivienne accidently created a caste system and therefore can't see the potential in it.
“Loo”na? Does she got to the bathroom? Is she stop?
@@nickthebabba7767 dude that pun was horrible and no that's how vivziepop spells the name
im glad you pointed out how to pace a story because both helluva boss AND hazbin hotel have some of the most painful pacing directions ive ever had to sit down and watch. more time occupied on aesthetics, unnecessary music, and angst when actual character building could’ve taken place.
The more i think about it, the more I'm starting to feel like Viv has no idea what functional people and relationships look like. Her attitude online to others who show criticism makes it seem even more probable. Thats really sad.
The chick is nothing but a child.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql lots of adverse life experiences early in life can really affect some people. It can make people act very immature and explosive.
Not to be used as an excuse for bad behavior, but it's something I'm noticing.
I agree with your assessment. Does it also feel like the female charachters don't quite get the same development, attention or depth as the male charachters do?
Kind of sexist the more I think about it.
Fact: Viv is a Fujoshi. It's just a common thought.
So many gays and bi men, so many developed men !!- but the women ? Let's never talk about them, no lesbians either, only straights.
@ILoveMenWayTooMuch
Or whoever writes for her, they all need to organize the board how it was mentioned in the video. Wait... does Helluva even have a single episode that passes the Bechtel test? 🤔
I also resent the implication that because someone, like say Millie, is mentally/emotionally healthy, that there's no story to be told there, that she's somehow boring? Speaking as someone who went through therapy, got sober (almost 5 years now! 🥳) "healthy" people have a past. We've effed up, sometimes worse than anyone, we have scars but we worked hard, endured and overcame.
I'd like to see how bad Millie suffered but overcame, how she maybe found something in Moxxie that completed her and why she's able to be what he needs and vice versa. I wanna see how Loona grew up before Blitzø, did she have a hard life with her mom? Did her mom even factor in her life? Or a Stella and Octavia episode? We know how Stolas feels, we've seen his past and his relationship with Via. There isn't more to Stella? She's a product of her upbringing as much as Stolas. Personally, I'd love to see an episode that maybe gives her more depth. Like, maybe she was pressured all her life as a female to marry and produce an offspring, how every time that never happened she was berated by her family because it's "her fault" (Yknow kind of how women of past monarchies probably felt) it would be so fascinating and complex.
Sorry for the rant. They have such a wide range of diverse characters and helluva is sticking to the SAME dynamics, tropes and characters. I say this because I want the show to succeed.
@@ILoveMenWayTooMuch Noticed that too. At this point I feel like I am watching yaoi not a queer presentative show. Also why not poly relationships? etc.
It gets me thinking if Viv has some sorta thing for gay men. Like a f@tish
So glad to see someone FINALLY talking about this. I’m a fan of the show but always knew it was honestly not very well written. The timing is weird and the characters are static. Just crap writing. When u said “I like the story of helluva boss, but not the actual show” that really resonated with me. GREAT video that definitely deserves more attention :)
There are already tons of videos discussing the show's flaws.
Talking bad about the show's writing is a bandwagon at this point, be real.
The art style and concept of the show are good but honestly the writing is pretty bad. I don't even like the show anymore. Season 1 was ok. But season 2 was really not my cup of tea. That camping episode was like the last straw for me and some others too.
@@CipherRage-tp5ql Feel like I've seen you say that before. I haven't gotten to that yet but I just watched s2 e2 and thought it was just amazing, especially Loona's characterization and her talk with the owl girl.
I honestly like the way Vivziepop writes characters. She needs time to write overarching plots, though. She obviously can, she's just not doing that in helluva
Man the easiest way they could've fixed that 'Loona ballkicking scene' is either have her do it reflexively and apologize awkwardly and genuinely while helping Blitzø up
or for her to see Blitzø running towards her, raising her claws (once again, reflexively), Blitzø stops himself (cause even if he is loving he should'nt keep crossing her boundaries like that), She stops and lowers her paw slowly while hesitantly opening her arms for a hug which Blitzø gladly takes lol
Despite the initial excitement and viral interest "Helluva Boss" managed to generate, the show reveals itself to be an underwhelming mess that relies heavily on shock value and superficiality rather than meaningful storytelling or character development.
The most glaring flaw of "Helluva Boss" is its incoherent narrative structure. The show struggles to maintain a consistent or engaging plot, often darting haphazardly between various storylines without providing sufficient depth or context. This erratic pacing makes episodes feel both rushed and dragged out, lacking any sense of purposeful direction. The attempts at story arcs are half-baked at best, leaving viewers confused and unsatisfied.
Character development is practically non-existent. The characters are painfully shallow, often pigeonholed into stereotypes that strip them of any unique or compelling traits. Rather than evoking empathy or interest, they come off as caricatures designed purely for cheap laughs or shock tactics. This approach rapidly becomes tiresome and, frankly, irritating. The protagonist and supporting characters alike are delivered with such predictability and lack of nuance that it's hard to care about their fates or motivations.
Worse still is the show’s reliance on crude, often offensive humor. The jokes not only fall flat but also frequently cross the line into distasteful territory. The creators seem to mistake vulgarity for wit, flooding episodes with crude gags and explicit content that add nothing to the actual narrative. Instead of clever satire or incisive parody, we're left with an endless barrage of tasteless jokes that quickly grow monotonous.
The show’s tonal inconsistency is another major downfall. "Helluva Boss" repeatedly attempts to balance dark humor with emotional moments, but the integration is clumsy and ineffective. The supposed heartfelt scenes feel awkwardly tacked on, devoid of genuine emotion or resonance. The transitions between different tones are jarring, further detracting from any potential emotional impact.
In terms of representation, "Helluva Boss" falls into disconcerting territory. The attempt to include a diverse range of characters is laudable in theory, but the execution is severely lacking. The show often resorts to offensive stereotypes and derogatory humor that can be alienating and harmful to viewers from marginalized communities. Rather than being a beacon of inclusivity, it risks perpetuating damaging clichés and insensitive portrayals.
Finally, the visual and audio presentation, while technically competent, cannot mask the deep-seated issues with substance. High-quality animation and voice acting are squandered on a show that fundamentally fails to provide a satisfying, coherent, or respectful narrative experience.
In conclusion, "Helluva Boss" is a stark example of wasted potential. Its failure to construct a compelling story, develop complex characters, or provide genuinely humorous content renders it a disappointing watch. The overreliance on shock value and offensive jokes only exacerbates its flaws. For those seeking a thoughtful, engaging, and respectful animated series, "Helluva Boss" is a regrettable misstep best avoided.
One thing I really loved about Moxie was that he wasn't a typical 'But Monkey" Character, where they're treated as pathetic in ALL aspects of their life. He's treated like the butt of jokes at work. But in his personal life he has a great relationship with his loving wife and that makes him a great foil for Blitzo, who's personal relationships are a complete mess. I think it would have been more interesting if they continued with that. That when they reveal Moxie's family, he has imperfect, but mostly supportive parents to contrast Blitzo's shitty father.
Maybe an episode where Blitzo, upon meeting them, can't wrap his head around his butt monkey employee coming from such a great place in comparison to him and he makes the situation really weird and uncomfortable for everyone. Maybe an inverse of the episode where we met Milly's family where she's now the one trying to prove she's good enough for their son, and she stands up to Blitzo for being creepy and overly involved and even calls him out on his behavior. She doesn't care about Blitzo's poly fantasies with them at work but not in front of her in laws. THAT would have lead to an interesting moment for Milly, Blitzo, and Moxie. Yes it would have been a repeat of one character trying to impress their in laws again, but at least it's not a FIFTH repeat of "I have a strained relationship with my father".
Discovering that moxie comes from an abusive mafia family not only feels tacked on, but it raises more questions than it answers.
Is their a lore reason why he is not a monkey? Is he stuoid?
I love Vivzi's work and loved the Helluva Boss show but the more I watched the less I cared, and I couldn't really put my finger on it why- until this video, omg you literally just summed up why my love for this show is fading, It is crazy to think how samey all the characters, episodes and relationships are and how they never really change etc. I really hope this isn't such a glaring issue for when Hazbin Hotel comes out. (edit)- Hazbin Hotel is fire AF I LOVE IT SO MUCH, the pacing is a bit fast but other than that it is fantastic! thank god
Another big aspect I get is probably killing your interest is how Hell itself was reduced to Earth with a coat of paint thrown on it.
None of the main characters act like demons. Society itself slowly becomes less and less demonic as "sinful" traits are treated as bad and only present in the parts of hell that look like crime ridden downtown areas on Earth.
Greedy characters are condemned and faithful and good characters are praised ... IN HELL!!!
One of the thigns that made hazbin hotel interesting as a concept was the idea of a world where EVERYONE is morally bankrupt and crazy because everyone are demons that failed to get into heaven. No one is a good person and lost their chance.
In fact One of my favorite lines in the pilot was one said by Alastor "There is no undoing what's already been done" when he's talking about helping demons find redemption. The idea that demons are all people that made the choice to reject redemption when it was avaliable and fell into hell as a result and there is no undoing that fact was interesting and the idea she was going to try anyway and how the writers were going to deal with that issue was facinating to me.
But after seeing Helluva Boss ... I'm pretty convinced they'll ultimately just hadwave the whole thing away and just say "Oh deep down redemption was always there they just had to overcone their tortured and broken selves to find it".
So I'm not at all excited for hazbin hotel anymore. If I'm wrong and it's truely good then great ... but if it's just a bunch of tortured characters getting shipped together ... I don't care.
Is there a reason why you couldn’t put your finger on it? Did you not want to touch it? Is Vivzi stupid?
Hazbin is so much better. Probably from A24’s oversight
Oh damn... the whole thing about using character dynamics to flesh them out blew my mind... it explains why TADC worked so well too, since almost all characters interact with each other in some way or another in the very first episode in meaningful ways, which already makes them so much more interesting. subbed
Well, you can’t really compare it to the amazing digital circus simply because it has only one episode and you can’t really say the story is good until it’s told or at least gone past the starting line
Plus, it’s just an apples to oranges situation anyway.
I don't mind some of the characters having daddy issues but it ridiculously getting repetitive like it is going bad thing they can think. Octavia is only one with mommy issues and also daddy issues as well because Stolas ignored her too as Stella as he focus more on his feelings on Blitz than his own daughter existence like in Western energy episode, he didn't even thought about her until Striker bought her up as he had any thought about her but instead thinks of Blitz more and brags about kinky stuffs of him which kills off the tone.
Even with abusive parents, it hard to feel bad for some of them as they are willingly to kill innocent people in the first episode, murder family.
Edit: Moxxie is the punching bag even after his backstory, the show keeps using him and Blitz as punching bags for comedy.
Millie is just a generic southern girl who is Moxxie wife and that is all we had whenevet she appeared and loona is unlikeable and abusive for no reason yet people hated stella for being abusive towards stolas while loona kicked Blitz in the crotch when he about to hug and even sorry but she had to ruin the moments after the fact she told Octavia to cut her dad some slack but physical attack him. I don't care she traumatised because she could a least him a single hug as she did as her father but the show is ruining the relationship. The show ignored the ozzue's incident as the characters like Blitz and stolas are still together after being mocked because stolas has a literal daughter which is why ozzie and fizz shit on him because like I said, he focused on his feelings towards Blitz than his daughter's life. Sure they both hypocrite but they are right about this.
Most of the antagonists are just a joke and hardly to take them seriously. Striker was the serious one but now he just now a joke to look at western energy.
Revealing that Stolas, Blitzo and Moxxie all had daddy issues in the span of three episodes did seem repetitive. Maybe it would have stood out less if things had been spread out more.
I don't think it's accurate to say that Octavia has mommy issues. We don't have much indication of what the relationship between them is like and so far Octavia has only shown resentment towards Stolas.
The only problem is that they mostly focus on the male characters than female characters as most of them gets less screen time whenever appeared in one of the episodes.
Nevermind the only daddy issues we actually explore is Moxxie's. For Stolas and Blitzo we only see glimps of them in the first ep and they are so flat of characters, i felt like the show treats me like an idiot because the dads basically came on screen and were like "Look how awful I am!" and than went away.
@@Depressionwave2338There was a bit of cash, bliz father. In fizz birthday, he gave him a card saying "Wish you were my son," which implying that he sees fizzarolli as his son more than Blitz himself and also a cash cow like Mammon.
@@RedDeadSpider343 I know, but personally I feel like they are still flat, only there to push the plot. We don't know about their background, family, morals, how they see the world, and why they do what they do other than being "THE awful dad". Especially that daddy issues don't just come just from one childhood action, and we see the trauma but never the consequences IN the characters and I mean conflict solution, views on the world, actions, morals. Maybe if Stolas had an absent dad he is afraid of being abandoned. Or Blizto doesn't know when he is actually loved because his dad manipulated him so much he doesn't know what's true or false and be is constantly afraid of being used by Stolas. They might have an addiction , PTSD etc. But we never see a constant trauma response in the characters even tho we supposed to feel bad for their trauma.
Some Rando: Wasn't this show supposed to be about a bunch of Imps and a hellhound running an assassination company?
Some "fan":... Shut up.
I agree Millie often feels like a backgroud character or those side characters that apear once a light-year
She barely has any traits other than being inlove with Moxxie and its truly sad
“Sheen, that’s the 5 time this week you’ve brought daddy issues to show and tell”.
I would argue that the characters do have unique indevidual strengths and that the real problem is that the show actively chooses not to showcase them. The exceptions being Loona who uses her tracking skills with with some regularity (at least when she's allowed to be in the show) and Blitzo that one time he used his circus-learned acrobatic skill to save Fizz.
Millie is physically the strongest (at least among the imps) and you can see this in the fights but it never gets applied anywhere else making it a very blink and you miss it thing. Moxxie is the most prepared and organized but it only gets used for gags. Blitzo actually does have some amount of charisma but because the show only focuses on his failures we don't really get to see it advance the plot beyond seducing Stolas.
I'm hoping this isn't a sign of things to come for Hazbin Hotel. It sure would be a shame to have Husk, a magician, never use his slight of hand for anything but gambling.
in the pilot they seemed to have a lot more interactions compared to the rest of the cartoon
People theorize Alastor's dad was abusive. And angel's. And Husk's statement to Charlie. Anyone else?
they missed a slam dunk with millie and blitz dynamic, millie seems like shes pretty outgoing under certain situations and has a temper, considering how moxxie understands blitzs issues and helps him open up, millie could've been rlly well at showing how blitz is bad and has negative traits, i could totally see her lashing out at blitz for making fun of moxxie, or maybe yelling at him for being 'weak' (I feel like moxxie wouldve been nice as a 'weak' person as not being able to fight as well as the others, and he only tagged along to support millie which further supports the idea of there loving relationship) and with millie snapping at blitz it makes him realize his own mistakes and maybe dig deeper, and moxxie could be the emotional one helping him connect threads
A defense people take to this show whenever it’s criticized for being immature or having “fuck” as every other word is that no, actually, it’s very mature because Helluva handles heavy topics like abuse and trauma. Ok sure, but what exactly does the show say about those issue? Abusive dads are bad? No shit. Toxic ex’s make new relationships harder to develop? Groundbreaking. Now if the show actually made commentary on these issues like, I don’t know, showing the characters actually moving beyond these problems that don’t have to define them then you’d have a better argument on your hands. I think Vivzie is trying to have her cake and eat it too in writing a zany vulgar adventure *AND* a deeper character drama-but with Helluva's writing those two just don't compliment each other and it makes the drama feel really shallow and fanficy for lack of a better term.
I understand for a lot of people who’ve dealt with the types of trauma depicted in the show that it's really impactful to see this stuff on screen (through characters with appealing character designs just drenched in edgy, Deviantart energy no less) and it’s easier to forgive stagnate writing on characters that never change because “omg they’re just like me for real”. I get it, I have comfort characters too, but it kind of makes me sad when the show has nothing deeper to say about these topics beyond just "yeah this shit happens and it sucks, this trauma is your personality trait now." It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
I mean...it shows that even males can be abused by their wives which is rare to see and that the characters are moving beyond these problems, Fizzaroli is a very good example of this with how he left working for Mammon.
Not really she is just being consistent. Nah they do compliment each other tbh and the drama doesn`t feel shallow or fanficy.
(Eh...their energy isn`t all edgy or deviantart) and the writing really isn`t stagnant. No it really does have deeper stuff to say about these topics.
Why are they just like him for real? Is there a lore reason or are they stupid?
Bojack Horseman (a show Vivziepop cites as an inspiration, and an adult cartoon that's both a comedy and a drama about long character arc and serious topics) uses the word "fuck" very sparingly so when it is dropped you actually feel like shit hit the fan and Bojack fucked up big time.
It handles its characters with care because the writers actually know what they're doing and unlike Helluva Boss's writers, they have one more than 2 tricks up their sleeves.
I love the idea of Millie giving Blitz tips for being a better father..
Why does Blitz get tips? Does he buy things?
Info tips, not money tips@@nickthebabba7767
And people are genuinely surprised that a girl who came up with this during the DeviantArt sparkledog era has unresolved daddy issues?
I'm very happy people are starting to see the problems, finally.
You can be healthy and have your s*** together like Millie, and still run into problems with people or situations that you might need to work through
They literally make millie like she's just a place holder in the show For other characters to work off of her, She's just there. If they were gonna do that with her, then they should have made her a side character, not a main character. And im pretty sure vivsipop has daddy issues idk how to put my finger on it... just a feeling.
I feel like there /was/ a plan in the very beginning (like Viv saying Stolas was originally meant to be a villain but changed him to make him a love interest, the pilot episode having more substance in comparison, etc) and then it was thrown away to add a few surprise yaoi sub-plots and did what yaoi is popular for and throws the women characters aside (or just makes them evil/annoying for no reason) because they get in the way. I started to catch on to that every time an episode about Millie started but then was immediately shut down and threw her into the background, meanwhile Octavia and Loona are just grumpy daughters and... that's it. Not to mention the VERY blatant toxicity most of the characters show towards their love interests... I was shocked Ozzie and Fizz seemed actually healthy as I'd seen nothing but toxicity rebranded as love all that time.
Cosmo and Wanda had a better couple dynamic than Millie and Moxie. And that's an understatement.
Actually yeah now that you mention it I do kinda wanna see them go do their I.M.P. missions more. I know that not all of them will have enough story to qualify an entire episode, but the pilot and first episode managed to fit it in
Easy way to pad out the episode, classic TV, A Plot and B Plot.
A Plot is the mission, now cut back and forth to the B Plot of other characters doing stuff.
A Plot: Mission to kill an old guy, because the employer didn't get candy from him one Halloween, wackiness ensues because it is Halloween up on Earth when they go and the old guy just managtes to keep shutting them down and thinks they are annnoying kids.
B Plot: Stolas is dealing with Octavia and trying to rebuild their relationship.