ADDENDUM: The Reliant series was given a few buffs since this video was made. A second gimbal twin mount by default was added to the Reliant Kore. Two S3 missile hard points were added to all of the Reliants (default was 2xs2 missiles per rack) and a health buff was applied to the Reliant in key areas to help strengthen some wing points that they felt were too weak.
Both feel very much like frontier colonial ships to me, the Delta is clearly a local fighter for a low budget militia, while the Tana feels more like a militia patrol craft, with missiles there to support the fighters should the need arise. Kinda remind me of Battlestar Galactica in those regards ^^ Vipers and Raptors ^^ Funny that CNOU and MISC made light fighters that synergize so well :)
Excellent review!! 👍I would say that those buffs give the Tana the edge with 6 size 2 fixed weapons( using the Toshima mounts) and 20 size 2 missiles ( the way i run it). You can even mount 8 size 1 missiles on the exterior wing mounts giving it a max missile loadout of 24 ( 16 size 2 + 8 size 1) For a light fighter, this is a LOT of firepower!
I think the Tana is an extremely underrated ship. -The 1 scu of cargo space, though tiny, is quite rare on a fighter. -Provides beds, bathroom, and storage for crew -Potential for dual turret mounts I think the Tana could make a great bounty hunting ship, especially if we get scenarios where you are required to pursue a bounty on foot. The ability to carry armor and weapons really sets this apart from other pure fighters. If it was potentially possible to fit a prisoner pod into the cargo space then I think this would be extremely viable.
Just finished watching and thought the same thing. I think the tana would really shine in a 3 man bounty hunter team. Grab a Stalker Friend for the prisoner pods and extra fire power, tana provides support with holding ammo and weapons.
The Tana is my personal favorite small ship. As a primary single player, It has everything. The combat performance is not fantastic but that is not needed. It has enough teeth to deal with any single threat and continue on its way. Great Video Law! Later.
Don't forget that the Tana can also fire behind itself while the pilot evades thanks to the assistance of a co-pilot. Only downside about the Tana from memory is the fact one has to change the orientation of the Tana's flight mode in order to leave the cockpit area in order to access the rear. This could be a problem when one needs to make mid flight repairs.
I own the Reliant and love it. However I do have one gripe. Star citizen does not know how to categorize their ships very well. The Tana should be considered more as a medium patrol ship or medium fighter. Especially when kitted out with the two dual laser gun ball turrets. I have chopped up cutlasses pretty easily with that configuration.
@@theunluckythirteen6628 it's not a gun, it's the ship's physical beacon. Something borked them in a lot of ships, so we'll have to wait for them to fix it in 3.10.
Great compare/contrast vid for the Delta vs Tana. Would have been nice to point out specifically what a co-pilot could do/would be expected to do as this is another variable in the equation.
The Tana with Toshima turrets gives 6xS2 plus a load of missiles, and missiles can be dumbfired. It is a hard hitter, and can do a little bit of everything. The Mustang flies better, but will be a ship you never pull again once you get a better fighter.
Good episode. I had actually completely written off the Tana, but I didn't know it comes stocked with all of those features. I doubt I'll buy one, but I'm definitely going to at least check it out when given the opportunity, hell, maybe I change my mind and pick one up after all.
They are going to do that eventually actually they are going to add a 3rd rotation setting which looks the same too the landing one but with the main engines actually in their proper position when it is vertical mode. Which means it will perform better in atmosphere and or in space while the vertical setting is more of a combat mode too be used in space flight.
Great video on these two. I agree with how you evaluated them. I don't think I'll buy either but I do LOVE my Kore and I'm pretty confident I don't want to upgrade based on what I'd lose.
If you look beyond the size and visuals. And compare the ships soley on their combat effectiveness, cargo space, and other aneminities. There are cheaper just as good or better alternatives. Like the aurora LN and avenger titan. I like the reliant design, but when i compare side by side with my LN. The marginal difference just isn't worth the larger price gap. The LN is also more ship in a smaller profile.
I have to go with the tana myself. Some fun to be had with the copilot having access to turret weapons while having the same view as the pilot. If you put the two S2 mount turret your copilot can use it as a camera turret and shoot behind the ship if needs be. Thanks Law.
This was an interesting comparison, so thanks for that, LotW! The Delta's rocket pods give it better potential to terrorize ground targets. Between the two, I'll stick with the Delta, which I already own. If I decided to pledge for a Reliant, it would be the Mako.
Great video LawoftheWest. Nice comparison. As a few other commenters have mentioned, the Origin 300 series is also competitive in this price range. A 3 way face off would be great for the upcoming release of the 315 and 325. My guess would be that the 325 would stack up pretty favorably against the Tana and Delta.
It's good that the Tana can be an adequate performer, because for me that ship's sex appeal is undeniable. I would kill to do a tour as a hired pilot of one at some far-off little outpost.
Good timing for the vid. I'd held onto my Delta for a long time, but just ccu'd to a Tana. I LOVED the smaller, angular look of the old Delta. Now, the Mustang is a rounded bloated thing; even the rocket pods changed from angled to a cylinder. And, if a ship has enough cockpit room for a 2nd seat, it either needs a 2nd seat or it needs to be reworked. If they rotated the landing gear 180 degrees, they could move the turret back and lop that extra space off. Also, the nose turret on the Mustang is silly. You end up either having to run gimballed S1 guns on the wings or, if you run fixed S2 wing guns, your stuck with the turret in locked mode, but you're effectively penalized since you can't swap to a fixed turret with upsized guns. The Delta might be better in a straight up fight, but I have other dedicated fighters. I'd held onto the Delta as something different. Good vid.
As someone who is considering getting into star citizen here soon. I like the reliant but I want a Kore but I also want the living space. So I like the Tana a bit more.
See, I've stated this on other videos I've seen of the Tana, and the best way I can describe is it's an extremely well-priced war apartment. Hear me out, because it's not a bad thing. The Tana brings to the fight more missiles than any ship in the light-fighter class, carries decent armament that can be DAMN effective when totally gimbled, and has a SUPREMELY high shield count for something its size. The Tana, in all reality, is a highly versatile escort fighter for merchants, and a very solid escort for those who need to go planetside to procure less... reputable substances... As well as giving it's owner almost all of the amenities needed to live and survive on the go, and is capable of stowing a very small amount of "cargo", whether for courier missions, in the future to strap down emplaced manned turrets, smaller automated turrets, or larger handheld weaponry like missile launchers. If you have two TANA's as an escort, both with two people each and your escorting lets say a Freelancer Max, both co-pilots can then disembark, set up any turrets for added protection that you might have brought with you, and gear up thanks to the weapon racks and armor carriers differently depending upon changing mission parameters as the TANA's circle around the dropzone for surveillance and reconnaissance. The Delta, however, would be an amazing light strike craft, capable of strafing land and surface targets quickly with its complement of weapons, as well as larger ships with those rockets. Do NOT underestimate 2 or 3 Delta's and their rocket pods when attacking larger craft. The sheer volume of the rockets can make up for their smaller size and warheads and might be easier to replace down the line. However, the Delta is a very specific ship that is great on the attack but may not be able to cope as well for those same escort and long duration missions that the TANA can. West was right to point out the lack of versatility, and it corners you into very specific roles, though those roles can be effectively done with the small and cheap Delta as compared to other larger fighters. The one defensive role I can see the Delta excelling at is as a relatively cheap base defense fighter for a mid to large-sized org. Putting it further away from a base in a camouflaged or secluded hangar, the Delta can easily respond with it's higher speed to an attack, and engage ground personnel and vehicles with its rockets. An entire invasion halted by the eradication of limited ground forces by a squad of Deltas would be a piss off to any attacker. But the versatility of the TANA is amazing. Not to mention the logistical aspect of being able to take on another person, whether willingly with a friend as your copilot, or taking on an extra person in the event of a forced retreat and rescue mission. The fact you can house, and arm that person comfortably gives TANA owners an extra way to help their org or their contractors. Not to mention it has a LOT of personality. Avengers will most likely be everywhere, Hornets will be a staple go to, Cutlasses are affordable and easy to maintain according to lore, and Arrows and Gladius's, though effective, are very linear in their looks and profiles. TANA pilots can strike up conversations easily about their ships with people who are interested, giving you a better way to network and offer options and value to would-be contractors and organizations. Not to mention the changing variable of going vertical or horizontal will be able to be done not just for landing and fighting. They've already stated that horizontal will be faster but less maneuverable and be better for in-atmospheric flight, with vertical giving you dynamic movement in atmospheric and void-combat. Co-pilots will probably have a blast with this feature as it will be very different than co-piloting in other ships. I think once we can upgrade thrusters to different makes and models for better outputs in certain directions, this thing will be an absolute PAIN to knuckle down for other ships, especially in atmosphere. I mean, imagine a TANA that you're shooting from behind pivoting on you while vertical, then slamming horizontal on a moments notice to gain distance as it fires more size one or its size two missiles at you. I love my TANA. I love MISC ships. Am I biased? Hell yeah I am, so take that into account. I can take my ship and go and do nearly everything, with my only future concerns needing to be to stop at a rest stop to get some grub and keep my character fed and refuel my ship. That's it. It's not the best ship, but my little war apartment will make for a great transportation vessel if I'm just cruising, and give me a better option when my Freelance MIS might be too much or too noticeable, or if I'm not making money with a Hull at the time. Of all the starter ships, this one has my vote in just giving you soooo much in such a small package seeing as I will be typically more defensive than offensive. Of all the Reliants, this I find gives you the most for your dollar, other than the SEN which I put just below the TANA. Plus... who can say no to that goofy bug-eyed look when you look at it head on??
@@scottpresseault3959 haha no you're right. Mercenary that sometimes takes on a bounty job then. Reason is, I think that later on that one SCU can also be used for a single holding cell. Like the ones on the Stalker. They are modules of one SCU. And yeah escorting will be another job option. Especially when we get multiple star systems (might start somewhere next year?). Long distance travel, beds and room for supplies might become a thing, ruling out the single seat fighters.
@@fierox88 Hmmmm. See I hadn't thought of that seeing as the Avenger carries 8SCU and yet the Stalker carries 8 cells. Now wouldn't that be interesting? So long as it doesn't impact a mercs abilities (but I mean, who would need a missile launcher or an emplacement platform for a larger weapon for a bounty?) that would be pretty amazing. And see that's why I love the MISC line! I find MISC has really captured that longer range niche with ships like the Starfarer and larger Hulls for logistics in fuel and cargo support! Which makes sense seeing as in lore they're based in the Centauri region, so they'd have to develop ships that can contend with long-range mercantile endeavors. Hulls carrying large amounts of cargo, Starfarers to refuel the convoy, with Reliant TANA's and Freelancer MIS's capable of escort and combat support with their larger shields. The Prospector is also amazing for single miners, and the Razor is a nice, if not odd addition to MISC as a racer, or the stealth version for low impact and stealth reconnaissance for the convoy, with the Freelancer DUR scouting longer ranges, Freelancer MAX for planet-to-station runs. Hell, the Reliant SEN will be the first ship to give a player a true solo science lab. And if you really want to do EVERYTHING, the Endeavor... I literally have nothing else to say about the Endeavor lol. You can farm in space or take a peek at something on the opposite end of our system for fuck sakes haha xD. I do like other ships here and there, like the Vanguard, Polaris, Vulture, Herald, Arrow, Orion, Avenger, Mustang Delta, and Eclipse; and I love the look of the Origin ships, but MISC will always be at the forefront of what I love, at least so far when it comes to how I like to play. When your largest "capital" ship, the Hull E, can be crewed by just 5 people, it says a lot about a company in lore and the practicality of it in the verse. The Reliant would be awesome to see in a purely MISC convoy for roleplay reasons and backed up by the Freelancer MIS as a big brother would be one hell of a sight.
The Delta seems like it would be a great inexpensive strike fighter for air to ground attacks with those rocket pods. I could see myself using the Delta even after I had better ships for that reason, but the Tana is just going to be outclassed by the freelancer and cutlass later on.
Split the difference in price, for $70 you get the 325A. Unless the rework ruins her, she kicks the ass of either of these ships. 1 size 4. 2 size 3s. Fast as hell, cargo, A bed, a kitchen, a toilet... And she's beautiful.
If the Hardpoint website is accurate (hardpoint.io) and up to date, I'm afraid the 325A has lost it's size 4 hardpoint, and is now all size 3... Otherwise, yeah... It's probably the best of the 'civilian' fighters, and possibly also the best escort fighter. (by which I mean, a fighter that can actually operate independently when the carrier mechanics are implemented, and thus can escort freighters and such without needing a carrier to help out.)
The Tana looks like it'd be mediocre with just the pilot, but with an experienced gunner, I think things could be quite different. When you have both a good gunner AND a good pilot, you'd likely find that a ship like the Tana can allow the pilot to focus on not getting hit, and getting into a position where the gunner can take shots at an enemy... It shouldn't be underestimated what a split workload like this can mean in a fight... But of course, that's only true if both of you are good at the role. The Tana benefits from being small in this regard, because large ships with turrets tend to be hard to maneuver...
I have a suspicion that we'll end up seeing the Tana primarily used as a hybrid light fighter/small spec ops squad carrier. Could see these being the ship of choice for starter crews looking for a balance of space/air combat and small on foot operations.
And yet it works in real life. What are games doing wrong, I wonder. I mean, for a single person, with gimballed weapons you're talking trying to control 8 axes at the same time, which is a lot to keep track of. (that's assuming you can get a control scheme that let's you do that. But I know you can because I'm using one.) You'd think having a second person taking care of some of that would help. In general there's a reason in the real world why you split up tasks among multiple people. Large aircraft have 2 pilots, because in a tense situation it would get overwhelming for one. (They used to have 3, but automation took over most of the job of the 3rd pilot. You also used to have a dedicated navigator/radio operator. Another casualty of better tech.) Keep in mind that Star Citizen does do full 6 DOF spaceflight, which very few other games do, and this challenges a lot of basic assumptions about how space combat works. We'll have to wait and see though. Right now there's almost no incentive to multi-crew even a large ship, let alone something as small as a Reliant...
@@KuraIthys I'm a couple years late, but why would I let this stop me? So, it is true that some modern fighter platforms have a "weapons operator" on board; however, it has been a very long time since that station controlled a turret. In fact, the "gunner" position was becoming obsolete as early a WWI for fighter craft as soon as they were able to synchronize guns to the propeller rotation and allow fixed guns to be placed on the fuselage. There are exceptions, but these are almost always on large aircraft with the goal of deterring smaller, more nimble fighters. I see many games adding a gunner's position to fighter craft, and forcing players to learn the lessons fighter pilots figured out a hundred years ago: it's really difficult to counter your own pilot's maneuvers with your aim. When the enemy craft maneuvers, even if they are pulling hard, they will only displace themselves by a few degrees-a-second relative to your aim at medium distance. If your pilot changes the orientation of your craft, even a small maneuver could displace your aim by ten's of degrees. I think it's much more useful for games to focus on an actual weapon's officer role: focusing on launching missiles, countermeasures, checking the radar, distributing power, and plotting jump points. Don't take any of that from the pilot, but let the officer reduce the burden and increase awareness exactly as needed.
Great video! The old looks of the Delta was way better... new is just an Alpha with a paint job! I own Tana, and from the tests in PTU so far Im verry satisfied from it!
Personally if I were gonna own both, I'd use the Delta as a Carrier/Station Defense specialized snub fighter, and the Tana for Freelancing and long treks in the verse with the added ability to take a friend along for the ride
Tana with 6 Scorpion GT-215s and 16 Rattler-II cluster missiles vs. Delta with 4 Scorpion GT-215s and 18 unguided rockets. I know which one I'm putting my money on. (Actually, I'm putting scatterguns in the 2 fixed slots on my Tana. A fun surprise for anyone who thinks getting close to the "sluggish" ship is a winning strategy.)
i love the reliant! but i also like the mustang... and if you can look past the rockets you have the mustang beta, gets intérieur space and a bed,showet etc...
They really did a fantastic job refurbishing the Reliant variants trying to keep an interesting idea alive but its still just a bunch of gimmicky nonsense that doesnt do anything for performance that it couldn't do in landing mode. Takes up too much ramp space too for such a basic little thing.
The Kore and it's ball turret as default still feels better that a tana in it's default. But having missiles really is a huge plus. I just wish other ships had at least 1 scu cargo pad like the tana.....like the hearld.
I think the TANA is a better multi use ship, can be used as a drop ship, using that 1SCU to store some weapons and ammo. Also you can do box missions with it, i think TANA wins here o/ the Delta fells more like a snub fighter than a stand alone ship.
As a medium to large ship pilot, the rocket pods scare me. A bunch of Deltas could wreck a few medium or large ships with those rockets, depending on what the DPS of them ends up being at. On top of that, against medium ships, you could do a heavy distortion loadout to eat the shields and use the rockets for hull damage. Still, I would say that a delta is a light fighter while the Tana is a multirole ship skewed towards combat.
I can't say on the tana, but the Cutlass can do that. If they're in gimbal mode, the RIO can fire off one weapon group while the pilot handles the other. Either can fire off missiles too
When you said 'short range' as far as the Delta was concerned, do you think mounting scatterguns on it would be viable? It does seem quick and nimble enough to get in to where they'd be most effective.
What I meant by short range was that it only had two small fuel tanks and it no longer has a fuel scoop, so it's going to be more limited in the physical distances that it can travel. But it's definitely nimble enough to use a scatter gun, and it's mass reduction armor is going to help give it an extra layer of protect against close quarters enemy fire.
I think the Tana would make the best bounty hunting ship for me, it's long range and great firepower would allow me to hunt down anyone anywhere in the galaxy unlike the short range Delta.
I think the entire Reliant line is just too spongy and too sluggish. Given the rather large cross section for a small ship, I would expect the Reliants (especially the Tana) to be a lot tougher given its lack of agility. Until CIG addresses this, I simply won't feel safe in any of the Reliant series.
Im not hatin on the Reliant series when i say this but those ships are VERY weak in most aspects at this stage. They need some serious love buffs or price reduction atleast, cuse in the end the ONLY place a reliant beats the Mustang would be that it can carry stuff for courier missions and such.
Yeah I think it would actually be interesting to tie the arrow and Gladius into this particular comparison, and focus on the potential role differences in the respective ships. At the end of the day, the arrow and Gladius are similar price-points and are much stronger candidates for space superiority ships, but don't have the versatility or specialized equipment (rocket pods, armor) that allow the delta and tana to fill other roles.
The Reliant series is starting to grow on me, I still don't like the whole vertical thingy and wish you could retract the landing gear and operate as a horizontal wing. The mustang still have my vote but wish you could swap out the rocket pods for a missile rack or another gun mount.
relatively bad performing ships like the R. Tana are too costly No in 3.5 scatter guns are somewhat the mate: guess who looses even more: yes! its the 'Reliant' A rework should give the Reliant variants more hull points to compensate for the sheer size - the good misc thrusters could give more boost than standard ones and compensate for the extra weight and hull points it gets
You have to wait till it goes on sale. Normally this happens every November in the Anniversary sale. Every ship will be available for like 1-2 weeks. Sometimes they have some sales in between bundled with other ships.
Exactly what I'm saying. For $70 you get a MUCH better ship with a size 4, 2 size 3, cargo, and a bed. It's freaky fast, and beautiful. I guess we have yet to see it's rework in action, but...
@@LordTiberius52 Indeed. But on second thought this video is about comparing these 2 ships for people who haven't heard about 325a or prefer these 2 over that. To each their own i guess. Either way i wont melt my 325 for these 2 for sure.
@@cyphereternal5298 and that's why I'm mentioning the 325A. I would not want somebody to buy one of these having "not heard" how much better the 325 is. Same thing happened after the Arrow release. There were all kinds of "arrow vs Gladius" and even vs hornet Videos. The poor 325 gets left out. And I would have left it out too, except that I recently found out it has a size 4 hard point. and THAT changes the game. So I upgraded a ship to a 325A and hell yeah! (later I had to upgrade out of it. But I'll get another one soon)
Игры
ADDENDUM: The Reliant series was given a few buffs since this video was made. A second gimbal twin mount by default was added to the Reliant Kore. Two S3 missile hard points were added to all of the Reliants (default was 2xs2 missiles per rack) and a health buff was applied to the Reliant in key areas to help strengthen some wing points that they felt were too weak.
Both feel very much like frontier colonial ships to me, the Delta is clearly a local fighter for a low budget militia, while the Tana feels more like a militia patrol craft, with missiles there to support the fighters should the need arise. Kinda remind me of Battlestar Galactica in those regards ^^ Vipers and Raptors ^^
Funny that CNOU and MISC made light fighters that synergize so well :)
instablaster.
Excellent review!! 👍I would say that those buffs give the Tana the edge with 6 size 2 fixed weapons( using the Toshima mounts) and 20 size 2 missiles ( the way i run it). You can even mount 8 size 1 missiles on the exterior wing mounts giving it a max missile loadout of 24 ( 16 size 2 + 8 size 1) For a light fighter, this is a LOT of firepower!
I think the Tana is an extremely underrated ship.
-The 1 scu of cargo space, though tiny, is quite rare on a fighter.
-Provides beds, bathroom, and storage for crew
-Potential for dual turret mounts
I think the Tana could make a great bounty hunting ship, especially if we get scenarios where you are required to pursue a bounty on foot. The ability to carry armor and weapons really sets this apart from other pure fighters. If it was potentially possible to fit a prisoner pod into the cargo space then I think this would be extremely viable.
Just finished watching and thought the same thing. I think the tana would really shine in a 3 man bounty hunter team. Grab a Stalker Friend for the prisoner pods and extra fire power, tana provides support with holding ammo and weapons.
I went with Reliant simply because it reminds me of the Bounty Hunter ships in Freelancer
The Tana is my personal favorite small ship. As a primary single player, It has everything. The combat performance is not fantastic but that is not needed. It has enough teeth to deal with any single threat and continue on its way. Great Video Law! Later.
then getting an avenger titan is a good call, it has allot more cargo, decent guns and an area to move around in also its allot cheaper
@@aurimasmaldzius5345 I had a Titan for a while. It is a good ship too no diagreement. I just like the look of the Tana more...Thanks for comment.
Me like the Mustang Beta
Don't forget that the Tana can also fire behind itself while the pilot evades thanks to the assistance of a co-pilot. Only downside about the Tana from memory is the fact one has to change the orientation of the Tana's flight mode in order to leave the cockpit area in order to access the rear. This could be a problem when one needs to make mid flight repairs.
The tana also has its gun on the wings so if you lose a wing, you lose firepower
@@floki6548 It just means that the pilot needs to be a better pilot! LOL XD
My only ship is the tana, and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out despite its issues
I love the Reliant Tana. It's one of the most unique ships in the game, fights well, has a great interior, and looks beautiful.
Both ships look good in their field, have to I will almost always value versatility in a ship though, and the Tana checks a lot of boxes.
I own the Reliant and love it. However I do have one gripe. Star citizen does not know how to categorize their ships very well. The Tana should be considered more as a medium patrol ship or medium fighter. Especially when kitted out with the two dual laser gun ball turrets. I have chopped up cutlasses pretty easily with that configuration.
How do you fix the static gun glitched in the hallway
@@theunluckythirteen6628 it's not a gun, it's the ship's physical beacon. Something borked them in a lot of ships, so we'll have to wait for them to fix it in 3.10.
Your VS series is top notch. Very helpful. Thanks for all of your hard work!
Great compare/contrast vid for the Delta vs Tana. Would have been nice to point out specifically what a co-pilot could do/would be expected to do as this is another variable in the equation.
Tana has that star wars feel when looking at it, I can see someone wanting to add in something that looks close to Star Wars or Star Trek
What an amazing comparison between the ships, very detailed thank you!
The Tana with Toshima turrets gives 6xS2 plus a load of missiles, and missiles can be dumbfired.
It is a hard hitter, and can do a little bit of everything.
The Mustang flies better, but will be a ship you never pull again once you get a better fighter.
Good episode. I had actually completely written off the Tana, but I didn't know it comes stocked with all of those features. I doubt I'll buy one, but I'm definitely going to at least check it out when given the opportunity, hell, maybe I change my mind and pick one up after all.
really wish they'd made it so the engines on the Reliant could swing around like the Khartu-Al when it was in vertical mode.
They are going to do that eventually actually they are going to add a 3rd rotation setting which looks the same too the landing one but with the main engines actually in their proper position when it is vertical mode. Which means it will perform better in atmosphere and or in space while the vertical setting is more of a combat mode too be used in space flight.
@@thestormcraft4012 I think you're confusing what the khartu does vs the swing from landing mode to flying mode the reliant does
Another fantastic video. Thank You Law. This was a very very good comparison video. Well thought out.
You the man. 👍
Nice summary. However, I cant say I'm a fan of where the Delta has gone looks wise versus the original concept.
man i liked this comparison i would have never thought of these two as similar but you really showed me they are similar
I really enjoy the comparison videos. Thank you for the great content
Great video on these two. I agree with how you evaluated them. I don't think I'll buy either but I do LOVE my Kore and I'm pretty confident I don't want to upgrade based on what I'd lose.
If you look beyond the size and visuals. And compare the ships soley on their combat effectiveness, cargo space, and other aneminities. There are cheaper just as good or better alternatives. Like the aurora LN and avenger titan. I like the reliant design, but when i compare side by side with my LN. The marginal difference just isn't worth the larger price gap. The LN is also more ship in a smaller profile.
Love this series of comparing ships.
Great idea for a video about two really interesting starter ships!
Thanks for the comparison. I wasn't particularly fond of the Tana as a concept, but this video has changed my opinion a bit.
I have to go with the tana myself. Some fun to be had with the copilot having access to turret weapons while having the same view as the pilot. If you put the two S2 mount turret your copilot can use it as a camera turret and shoot behind the ship if needs be. Thanks Law.
This was an interesting comparison, so thanks for that, LotW! The Delta's rocket pods give it better potential to terrorize ground targets. Between the two, I'll stick with the Delta, which I already own. If I decided to pledge for a Reliant, it would be the Mako.
I actually love the whole concept of the MAKO and am thinking of pledging for that ship as well.
Great video LawoftheWest. Nice comparison. As a few other commenters have mentioned, the Origin 300 series is also competitive in this price range. A 3 way face off would be great for the upcoming release of the 315 and 325. My guess would be that the 325 would stack up pretty favorably against the Tana and Delta.
It's good that the Tana can be an adequate performer, because for me that ship's sex appeal is undeniable.
I would kill to do a tour as a hired pilot of one at some far-off little outpost.
another fantastic vid man thanks for the hard work.
I like the Tana for its internal space
I know. I love the interior space inside the Tano. A perfect ship for 2 crew members.
Good timing for the vid. I'd held onto my Delta for a long time, but just ccu'd to a Tana.
I LOVED the smaller, angular look of the old Delta. Now, the Mustang is a rounded bloated thing; even the rocket pods changed from angled to a cylinder. And, if a ship has enough cockpit room for a 2nd seat, it either needs a 2nd seat or it needs to be reworked. If they rotated the landing gear 180 degrees, they could move the turret back and lop that extra space off.
Also, the nose turret on the Mustang is silly. You end up either having to run gimballed S1 guns on the wings or, if you run fixed S2 wing guns, your stuck with the turret in locked mode, but you're effectively penalized since you can't swap to a fixed turret with upsized guns.
The Delta might be better in a straight up fight, but I have other dedicated fighters. I'd held onto the Delta as something different.
Good vid.
Tana will wreck a delta in 1v1.
Hum, Planetside music in the background. Nice!
I like the look of the Reliant best and the cockpit and dual pilot configuration is really cool
If I wouldn't have a Titan already, I would pick the tana. Very nice vid!
As someone who is considering getting into star citizen here soon. I like the reliant but I want a Kore but I also want the living space. So I like the Tana a bit more.
Great video man! If you do another like this, I'd like to see an updated one on the avenger and the 325a.
See, I've stated this on other videos I've seen of the Tana, and the best way I can describe is it's an extremely well-priced war apartment.
Hear me out, because it's not a bad thing.
The Tana brings to the fight more missiles than any ship in the light-fighter class, carries decent armament that can be DAMN effective when totally gimbled, and has a SUPREMELY high shield count for something its size. The Tana, in all reality, is a highly versatile escort fighter for merchants, and a very solid escort for those who need to go planetside to procure less... reputable substances... As well as giving it's owner almost all of the amenities needed to live and survive on the go, and is capable of stowing a very small amount of "cargo", whether for courier missions, in the future to strap down emplaced manned turrets, smaller automated turrets, or larger handheld weaponry like missile launchers.
If you have two TANA's as an escort, both with two people each and your escorting lets say a Freelancer Max, both co-pilots can then disembark, set up any turrets for added protection that you might have brought with you, and gear up thanks to the weapon racks and armor carriers differently depending upon changing mission parameters as the TANA's circle around the dropzone for surveillance and reconnaissance.
The Delta, however, would be an amazing light strike craft, capable of strafing land and surface targets quickly with its complement of weapons, as well as larger ships with those rockets. Do NOT underestimate 2 or 3 Delta's and their rocket pods when attacking larger craft. The sheer volume of the rockets can make up for their smaller size and warheads and might be easier to replace down the line. However, the Delta is a very specific ship that is great on the attack but may not be able to cope as well for those same escort and long duration missions that the TANA can. West was right to point out the lack of versatility, and it corners you into very specific roles, though those roles can be effectively done with the small and cheap Delta as compared to other larger fighters. The one defensive role I can see the Delta excelling at is as a relatively cheap base defense fighter for a mid to large-sized org. Putting it further away from a base in a camouflaged or secluded hangar, the Delta can easily respond with it's higher speed to an attack, and engage ground personnel and vehicles with its rockets. An entire invasion halted by the eradication of limited ground forces by a squad of Deltas would be a piss off to any attacker.
But the versatility of the TANA is amazing. Not to mention the logistical aspect of being able to take on another person, whether willingly with a friend as your copilot, or taking on an extra person in the event of a forced retreat and rescue mission. The fact you can house, and arm that person comfortably gives TANA owners an extra way to help their org or their contractors.
Not to mention it has a LOT of personality. Avengers will most likely be everywhere, Hornets will be a staple go to, Cutlasses are affordable and easy to maintain according to lore, and Arrows and Gladius's, though effective, are very linear in their looks and profiles. TANA pilots can strike up conversations easily about their ships with people who are interested, giving you a better way to network and offer options and value to would-be contractors and organizations. Not to mention the changing variable of going vertical or horizontal will be able to be done not just for landing and fighting. They've already stated that horizontal will be faster but less maneuverable and be better for in-atmospheric flight, with vertical giving you dynamic movement in atmospheric and void-combat. Co-pilots will probably have a blast with this feature as it will be very different than co-piloting in other ships. I think once we can upgrade thrusters to different makes and models for better outputs in certain directions, this thing will be an absolute PAIN to knuckle down for other ships, especially in atmosphere. I mean, imagine a TANA that you're shooting from behind pivoting on you while vertical, then slamming horizontal on a moments notice to gain distance as it fires more size one or its size two missiles at you.
I love my TANA. I love MISC ships. Am I biased? Hell yeah I am, so take that into account. I can take my ship and go and do nearly everything, with my only future concerns needing to be to stop at a rest stop to get some grub and keep my character fed and refuel my ship. That's it. It's not the best ship, but my little war apartment will make for a great transportation vessel if I'm just cruising, and give me a better option when my Freelance MIS might be too much or too noticeable, or if I'm not making money with a Hull at the time.
Of all the starter ships, this one has my vote in just giving you soooo much in such a small package seeing as I will be typically more defensive than offensive. Of all the Reliants, this I find gives you the most for your dollar, other than the SEN which I put just below the TANA.
Plus... who can say no to that goofy bug-eyed look when you look at it head on??
I totally agree. I feel like this is the bounty hunter starter ship. And it has personality.
@@scottpresseault3959 haha no you're right. Mercenary that sometimes takes on a bounty job then. Reason is, I think that later on that one SCU can also be used for a single holding cell. Like the ones on the Stalker. They are modules of one SCU. And yeah escorting will be another job option. Especially when we get multiple star systems (might start somewhere next year?). Long distance travel, beds and room for supplies might become a thing, ruling out the single seat fighters.
@@fierox88 Hmmmm. See I hadn't thought of that seeing as the Avenger carries 8SCU and yet the Stalker carries 8 cells. Now wouldn't that be interesting? So long as it doesn't impact a mercs abilities (but I mean, who would need a missile launcher or an emplacement platform for a larger weapon for a bounty?) that would be pretty amazing.
And see that's why I love the MISC line! I find MISC has really captured that longer range niche with ships like the Starfarer and larger Hulls for logistics in fuel and cargo support! Which makes sense seeing as in lore they're based in the Centauri region, so they'd have to develop ships that can contend with long-range mercantile endeavors. Hulls carrying large amounts of cargo, Starfarers to refuel the convoy, with Reliant TANA's and Freelancer MIS's capable of escort and combat support with their larger shields. The Prospector is also amazing for single miners, and the Razor is a nice, if not odd addition to MISC as a racer, or the stealth version for low impact and stealth reconnaissance for the convoy, with the Freelancer DUR scouting longer ranges, Freelancer MAX for planet-to-station runs. Hell, the Reliant SEN will be the first ship to give a player a true solo science lab. And if you really want to do EVERYTHING, the Endeavor... I literally have nothing else to say about the Endeavor lol. You can farm in space or take a peek at something on the opposite end of our system for fuck sakes haha xD.
I do like other ships here and there, like the Vanguard, Polaris, Vulture, Herald, Arrow, Orion, Avenger, Mustang Delta, and Eclipse; and I love the look of the Origin ships, but MISC will always be at the forefront of what I love, at least so far when it comes to how I like to play. When your largest "capital" ship, the Hull E, can be crewed by just 5 people, it says a lot about a company in lore and the practicality of it in the verse. The Reliant would be awesome to see in a purely MISC convoy for roleplay reasons and backed up by the Freelancer MIS as a big brother would be one hell of a sight.
The Delta seems like it would be a great inexpensive strike fighter for air to ground attacks with those rocket pods. I could see myself using the Delta even after I had better ships for that reason, but the Tana is just going to be outclassed by the freelancer and cutlass later on.
Split the difference in price, for $70 you get the 325A. Unless the rework ruins her, she kicks the ass of either of these ships. 1 size 4. 2 size 3s. Fast as hell, cargo, A bed, a kitchen, a toilet... And she's beautiful.
If the Hardpoint website is accurate (hardpoint.io) and up to date, I'm afraid the 325A has lost it's size 4 hardpoint, and is now all size 3...
Otherwise, yeah... It's probably the best of the 'civilian' fighters, and possibly also the best escort fighter.
(by which I mean, a fighter that can actually operate independently when the carrier mechanics are implemented, and thus can escort freighters and such without needing a carrier to help out.)
I'm a Tana fan too. Can't wait for the next update at the end of the month.
Great vid Law. I got a Mako, and now I am thinking maybe I should get the Tana as well.
There are advantages to having two ships with similar flight profiles and identical control layouts for different jobs.
I got my Tana, I do need to upgrade it's QT, but I'm loving what it brings to the table. I'm having plenty of fun!
The Tana looks like it'd be mediocre with just the pilot, but with an experienced gunner, I think things could be quite different.
When you have both a good gunner AND a good pilot, you'd likely find that a ship like the Tana can allow the pilot to focus on not getting hit, and getting into a position where the gunner can take shots at an enemy...
It shouldn't be underestimated what a split workload like this can mean in a fight...
But of course, that's only true if both of you are good at the role.
The Tana benefits from being small in this regard, because large ships with turrets tend to be hard to maneuver...
I have a suspicion that we'll end up seeing the Tana primarily used as a hybrid light fighter/small spec ops squad carrier. Could see these being the ship of choice for starter crews looking for a balance of space/air combat and small on foot operations.
splitting aim and movment is proofed not to be good in other games before ^^
And yet it works in real life.
What are games doing wrong, I wonder.
I mean, for a single person, with gimballed weapons you're talking trying to control 8 axes at the same time, which is a lot to keep track of. (that's assuming you can get a control scheme that let's you do that. But I know you can because I'm using one.)
You'd think having a second person taking care of some of that would help.
In general there's a reason in the real world why you split up tasks among multiple people.
Large aircraft have 2 pilots, because in a tense situation it would get overwhelming for one.
(They used to have 3, but automation took over most of the job of the 3rd pilot. You also used to have a dedicated navigator/radio operator. Another casualty of better tech.)
Keep in mind that Star Citizen does do full 6 DOF spaceflight, which very few other games do, and this challenges a lot of basic assumptions about how space combat works.
We'll have to wait and see though. Right now there's almost no incentive to multi-crew even a large ship, let alone something as small as a Reliant...
2xS3 + 2xS2 + 16 S2 missiles. It wrecks stuff in PvE and would wreck a mustang delta.
@@KuraIthys I'm a couple years late, but why would I let this stop me? So, it is true that some modern fighter platforms have a "weapons operator" on board; however, it has been a very long time since that station controlled a turret. In fact, the "gunner" position was becoming obsolete as early a WWI for fighter craft as soon as they were able to synchronize guns to the propeller rotation and allow fixed guns to be placed on the fuselage. There are exceptions, but these are almost always on large aircraft with the goal of deterring smaller, more nimble fighters.
I see many games adding a gunner's position to fighter craft, and forcing players to learn the lessons fighter pilots figured out a hundred years ago: it's really difficult to counter your own pilot's maneuvers with your aim. When the enemy craft maneuvers, even if they are pulling hard, they will only displace themselves by a few degrees-a-second relative to your aim at medium distance. If your pilot changes the orientation of your craft, even a small maneuver could displace your aim by ten's of degrees.
I think it's much more useful for games to focus on an actual weapon's officer role: focusing on launching missiles, countermeasures, checking the radar, distributing power, and plotting jump points. Don't take any of that from the pilot, but let the officer reduce the burden and increase awareness exactly as needed.
Great video! The old looks of the Delta was way better... new is just an Alpha with a paint job! I own Tana, and from the tests in PTU so far Im verry satisfied from it!
well put Law
Great comparison.
loved the music
delta looks good love that green
Personally if I were gonna own both, I'd use the Delta as a Carrier/Station Defense specialized snub fighter, and the Tana for Freelancing and long treks in the verse with the added ability to take a friend along for the ride
Great video! I prefer the Tana in every way. I'm waiting for November when it is for sale.
Great Video Thanks
Tana with 6 Scorpion GT-215s and 16 Rattler-II cluster missiles vs. Delta with 4 Scorpion GT-215s and 18 unguided rockets. I know which one I'm putting my money on.
(Actually, I'm putting scatterguns in the 2 fixed slots on my Tana. A fun surprise for anyone who thinks getting close to the "sluggish" ship is a winning strategy.)
i love the reliant! but i also like the mustang... and if you can look past the rockets you have the mustang beta, gets intérieur space and a bed,showet etc...
i can't wait for an Avenger VS The 325A!
LOL, that actually is on list of future Verses episodes. ; )
They really did a fantastic job refurbishing the Reliant variants trying to keep an interesting idea alive but its still just a bunch of gimmicky nonsense that doesnt do anything for performance that it couldn't do in landing mode. Takes up too much ramp space too for such a basic little thing.
dont forget the shield and enery management u can have with the Reliant!
The reliant series is like the Ford pinto of star citizen
thanks
I would put my money on the delta
Nice video, Johnny likey.
The Kore and it's ball turret as default still feels better that a tana in it's default. But having missiles really is a huge plus. I just wish other ships had at least 1 scu cargo pad like the tana.....like the hearld.
I think the TANA is a better multi use ship, can be used as a drop ship, using that 1SCU to store some weapons and ammo. Also you can do box missions with it, i think TANA wins here o/ the Delta fells more like a snub fighter than a stand alone ship.
I would think dealter great to have on a carrier and relient better for pure solo adventure or just two.
i want to add the rocket pods from the delta to the missile rack slots on the wings of my 325a some day
As a medium to large ship pilot, the rocket pods scare me. A bunch of Deltas could wreck a few medium or large ships with those rockets, depending on what the DPS of them ends up being at. On top of that, against medium ships, you could do a heavy distortion loadout to eat the shields and use the rockets for hull damage.
Still, I would say that a delta is a light fighter while the Tana is a multirole ship skewed towards combat.
Let's be honest. The survival mechanics wont matter
Yea it sounds like they will be more of an RP thing with a charisma bonus when talking to NPCs.
From my memory the Delta does have a small cargo capacity in the rear internal bit only accessible from the outside though
If it ever did, they got rid of it in the rework, only the Alpha has cargo now
it would be fun if you could delegate the gimbal turrets of the reliant to the copilot.. so you can focus on the fixed weapons. Is that possible?
I can't say on the tana, but the Cutlass can do that. If they're in gimbal mode, the RIO can fire off one weapon group while the pilot handles the other. Either can fire off missiles too
When you said 'short range' as far as the Delta was concerned, do you think mounting scatterguns on it would be viable? It does seem quick and nimble enough to get in to where they'd be most effective.
What I meant by short range was that it only had two small fuel tanks and it no longer has a fuel scoop, so it's going to be more limited in the physical distances that it can travel. But it's definitely nimble enough to use a scatter gun, and it's mass reduction armor is going to help give it an extra layer of protect against close quarters enemy fire.
I think the Tana would make the best bounty hunting ship for me, it's long range and great firepower would allow me to hunt down anyone anywhere in the galaxy unlike the short range Delta.
I love my Reliant TANA.
This is a great comparison. But what if my play style is more akin to Leroy Jenkins?
Go anvil then, all the way ; )
Is the music used during the ships' introduction from Halo? :)) Thank you in advance!
All of the music I use for these videos comes from the Star Citizen sound track.
@@lawofthewestgaming Awesome, thank you! :))
LotW reminds me of Dyslexi from Arma
I think the entire Reliant line is just too spongy and too sluggish. Given the rather large cross section for a small ship, I would expect the Reliants (especially the Tana) to be a lot tougher given its lack of agility. Until CIG addresses this, I simply won't feel safe in any of the Reliant series.
Maybe this will be addressed when they implement physical armour
The Delta seem more like a good scramble fighter for a larger ship. Not self sufficient by any means.
you should revisit this since the tana got its update
What song do u use when the topic changes?
I didn't even know rockets exist ^^
They need to make the tana a bit more powerfull!
Can you compare a reliant with a 300?
Tana reminds me of Jango Fetts ship so much
it definitely has that kind of vibe to it.
will the tana ever be on the pledge store again? Cause I'm really wanting one
It is right now!
Im not hatin on the Reliant series when i say this but those ships are VERY weak in most aspects at this stage. They need some serious love buffs or price reduction atleast, cuse in the end the ONLY place a reliant beats the Mustang would be that it can carry stuff for courier missions and such.
Make a rereview on the arrow on the nfm? :D
Yeah I think it would actually be interesting to tie the arrow and Gladius into this particular comparison, and focus on the potential role differences in the respective ships. At the end of the day, the arrow and Gladius are similar price-points and are much stronger candidates for space superiority ships, but don't have the versatility or specialized equipment (rocket pods, armor) that allow the delta and tana to fill other roles.
The Reliant series is starting to grow on me, I still don't like the whole vertical thingy and wish you could retract the landing gear and operate as a horizontal wing. The mustang still have my vote but wish you could swap out the rocket pods for a missile rack or another gun mount.
relatively bad performing ships like the R. Tana are too costly
No in 3.5 scatter guns are somewhat the mate: guess who looses even more: yes! its the 'Reliant'
A rework should give the Reliant variants more hull points to compensate for the sheer size - the good misc thrusters could give more boost than standard ones and compensate for the extra weight and hull points it gets
I will stick to the Avenger Titan
How do I purchase the Tana in the pledge store?
You have to wait till it goes on sale. Normally this happens every November in the Anniversary sale. Every ship will be available for like 1-2 weeks. Sometimes they have some sales in between bundled with other ships.
It's avaiable right now because of the recent changes the Reliants got in 3.9!
But the MUSTANG will be all mine (cuz I like the FORD MUSTANG)
Beutiful
325a?
Exactly what I'm saying. For $70 you get a MUCH better ship with a size 4, 2 size 3, cargo, and a bed. It's freaky fast, and beautiful.
I guess we have yet to see it's rework in action, but...
@@LordTiberius52 Indeed. But on second thought this video is about comparing these 2 ships for people who haven't heard about 325a or prefer these 2 over that. To each their own i guess. Either way i wont melt my 325 for these 2 for sure.
@@cyphereternal5298 and that's why I'm mentioning the 325A. I would not want somebody to buy one of these having "not heard" how much better the 325 is.
Same thing happened after the Arrow release. There were all kinds of "arrow vs Gladius" and even vs hornet Videos.
The poor 325 gets left out. And I would have left it out too, except that I recently found out it has a size 4 hard point. and THAT changes the game. So I upgraded a ship to a 325A and hell yeah! (later I had to upgrade out of it. But I'll get another one soon)
@LAWoftheWEST Gaming - Ok I am wondering if you have noticed what I have noticed in this video?