AI Ghorst resurrects 100% after being defeated
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2023
- If you want to send me your disaster campaigns email it here. totalwarlegend@gmail.com
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Игры
CA: "Anti-player bias is a myth"
Helman Ghorst: "I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye."
Gonna cry Legend?
Look at little legend junior.
CA has never said anti-player is a myth.
I had ghorst being without any settlement, jsut his army and he kept attacking one of my settlements. I autoresolved it because I didnt want to be bothered and killed him 3 times. 4th time there were so many corpses in that province that he raised like 3 terrorgheists 2 bloodknights etc and I just lost xd then I had to move one of my armies for good 5 turns back to where he was so that I could deal with him properly.
@@ThePaciorr haha thats funny
I once saw Ghorst actually gain strength after a defeat. I had caught his army at about half health, and I attacked, auto resolving for a decisive victory. Not only did Ghorst and his army not die they all came back with full health. It was totally absurd.
Ahh the benefits of using undead they're better the more they come back
Actually that seems pretty lore friendly in regards to the undead. Incredibly annoying but I think thats what they had to put up with during the war with Von Carstein if I remember correctly, before they took his ring off.
to be fair, ghorst has a TON of bonuses for the dead rise again. Here he is lvl 43 so most bonuses should be unlocked. Yes it's super annoying, but you, as the player, get the same bonuses. Not from turn one obviously but around turn 40-50 you have entire armies of juiced up rank 9 zombies with some corpse carts resurrecting after defeats. It's quite fun as the player.
one thing i really hate is the fact that AI factions can besiege with minimal forces and prevent you from replenishing, like over the end turn if someone besieges you it should give you an option to sally out right there and initiate the battle, that way if you win you actually replenish troops when its your turn rather than just being fucked
Yeah and even if you had units being recruited you have to cancel and re recruit after you fight them off
Super annoying! Also they will almost never attack you so you're forced to sally out, negating the advantage of having walls.
The worst is when it's literally just one fucking lord thats besieging your entire settlement with an army in it 😂
I don't think it's possible, probably something to do with, if it was you initiating the siege, the AI would have to make a decision right there and then, and that programming probably isn't in the game at all.
@@mattandrews2594 ? It could just be disabled for AI then. It’s not a good strategy to use against AI anyway.
On the tabletop, blunderbuss's used to hit everything in a strait line, the same width as the unit, in front of them. Definitely managed to represent that fairly well with the friendly fire in total war.
The unit I’m happy about are the infernal guards ironsworn because holy shot these guys were garbadge on tabletop. Now the elit of the chaos dwarf is trully standing where it should.
these blunderbuss must be imported from the skavens
I think that blunderbuss pellets are just ferromagnetic and literally lock on cdwarf metal armors.
@@MrHappypenguin124 that doesn't make it balanced. It's damage is way too high and destroys SEMs as well.
Can't call it friendly fire if you don't consider those getting hit by it friends. I suspect the Chaos Dwarfs do not...
Vampire counts doing this, is the same energy as (in Rome 2 onwards titles) an almost dead army (possibly taking attrition) besieging a settlement and not attacking because the AI doesn't believe they can win. So the town/city stops construction, possibly looses public order and looses taxes.
But when you go to attack them with your garrison they f*** off because they know they'll loose, just to come back and besiege on their next turn xD
I’ve had Ghorst attack 3 times in the same end turn, being defeated in battle each time. It’s seriously a BS mechanic lol
Same it's truly agony and a slog each time I fight vampire factions
I personally think it's cool and it adds to each factions personality tbh. I like it when the factions show their full might through different means. I still remember the first time I saw the beast men in wh2 and it gave me thrills to see how'd handle such a mobile force.
@@Gonzakoable I agree with this guy, ALTHOUGH the resurrected army should allways be of worse quality and smaller than the original so they won't automatically win every attrition war
@@Gonzakoable I do agree it's a good concept and shouldn't be removed, but it needs a hefty nerf to balance it. I think one good way to do so is make it so you only get *one* SEM unit back from DRA. Only *one.* No "lol I just got back all my Terrorgheists" BS.
@@Gonzakoable Should be limited to some extent.
For example: the strength of the resurrection should depend on the level of corruption. This way it's a great defensive tool and not an obnoxious offensive trait.
Could also look into limiting the number of rez at a given location like the unit dies twice in the same round, they are dead for good. Or change it to "raise the fallen" enemies which means you can only rez units depending on what you killed in the enemy army (you get units of similar quality/tier) instead of raising your own army that died thrice in a row.
The current mechanic is thematic but I believe it limits CA's balancing capabilities. They always have to consider this possibility before making units/regen/spells stronger.
amazing how this got green light and no one for a second in CA thought "wait a minute, maybe it's not a good idea"
Vampires are completely over the top with this one. They regen whole armies with no corruption or 10-30% corruption.. But more importantly. Only thing basic Chaos Dwarfs lack is that sweet sweet Frenzy. So they don't get terror/fear routed. I recently had battle when I just couldn't stop the terror units from pushing everything away and exposing my Blunderbusses. Oh I never got that Morrowind item!
Isn't frenzy one of the first upgrades from the manufactory for the ChaD melee units?
@@tsunamie1015 yes it is
@@tsunamie1015 Indeed. I have disabled it since I wanted to save armaments, just rolled with charge defense against all and 10% physical resistance..but that was a mistake!
How does the mechanic for revive work for the player?
Also u can give infantry fear making them immune to psychology outside of terror
At the same time, the player's units are resurrected with health values close to zero.
It could be way worse.
In my current Astagoth legendary campaign I took out the Lahmian sisterhood west of him, but their last lord fled before I could catch him.
He spent the next few turns going around doing nothing and taking massive attrition damage. Then just before he died he headed to one of my undefended settlements in the middle of my empire.
By this point he had 10 units with about 10 percent health remaining for each..
I saw it, recruited a lord and 5 regiments of renown just to be sure. Thought it was a done deal.
On the end turn, he attacked, and sure enough it was a decisive victory in auto resolve so I autoed.
The problem? He revived immediately with ALL OF HIS HIGH TIER UNITS in half health, and HAVING RECRUITED AN ENTIRE 20 STACK WORTH OF OTHER HIGH TIER UNITS!
He Attacked again on that same end turn and this time it was a decisive defeat for me and the loss of the settlement!
This bullshit is why I keep a backup of my legendary save.
You CAN NOT predict or respond to this!
Edit. For punctuations.
Is that really any different than Belakor being able to portal basically anywhere on the map with only 1 turn warning?
Holy shit hahaha
Yeah you can never assume you have beaten a vampire count faction, until they are fully wiped out. Their mechanics can be summed up as pure bullshit. I've never seen such a cockroach like faction in a total war game before.
@@mattandrews2594 yes. If I see a portal opening on one of my regions I will take it very seriously and take immediate action, it is Belakor after all.
Why should I be afraid of a 1/10 stack of nearly dead Vampire Counts the same way I am afraid of Belakor?
@@matthewsarson6934 well said!
They bring about the memories of those undying cockroaches to mind! 😂
Hi Legend, I love how your making more saving disaster battles/campaign videos again: they're so good :)
Kinda seems like he's in a worse position now even after that heroic effort on your part, hopefully he can recover still.
I know right but that battle wasn't optional. At least now he can get some backup to finish it off.
@@LegendofTotalWar you should do it for him
@@malachaimaloney2216 Yea! And then Legend can polish his shoes too!
@@malachaimaloney2216 Legend usually sends it back after defeating the current issue, even if there is a new one, to let the original player try to beat it. If they can't do it they can always send it back to Legend
@@Bluemangrupmost of the times yes, but sometimes when the odds are still horrible, he'll do the next battle too. However in this Szenario I agree with legend, this is possible to be solved by the person who sent in the file. Will just cost him his regiment of renowm and loads of money
Vampire Counts have been my favorite faction since WH1 but even I gotta to admit that they are brokenly good on the campaign map in 3.
Brokenly good and ridiculously one-note.
Yeah, same. The constant resurrecting is actually really, really thematic, but I think it should be tied way more heavily to Corruption and make it harder to spread. That way you only run that risk in highly infected areas and not everywhere.
@@MrParadux It also happens way too early in the campaign.
Surely it wasn't THAT bad in WH2? I remember they sometimes saved 3-5 units of theirs, but not everything, wtf?
@@LuzikArbuzik77 Nah, they definitely messed up something and hid it as a "feature". Someone put a decimal in the wrong place when calculating the resurrection chance.
Reviving units after a battle seems incredibly thematic for VC, but the issue is randomness. It completely takes away agency from the player and leaves everything to a roll of the dice, and rewards stacking crap units because you can't reliably revive units that you want. Some kind of targeted revive mechanic based on winds of magic strength in the region would be more interactive and easier to balance.
Winds of magic, corruption, research and lord skills. Maybe you're alloted a certain resource after battles.
Also no revive if you LOSE. If you win but lose a unit, sure that’s fine, it can come back
@@lylemata6672 I like this. Have winds of magic in the region set a base amount you can revive. Then make the amount of vampiric corruption act as a multiplier (more corruption, more revive points, other corruptions or untainted are negative multiplier). Then when you revive, you basically drain winds of magic from the region.
I would also allow revive even after you lose a battle, as it is thematic and opens up possibilities for roleplay and strategy. Basically you whittle down your enemies through multiple battles with hordes of units.
This system would force you to balance between reviving your units and saving winds of magic in the area for spells during combat. If balanced correctly, this would also allow you to choose if you want to swarm with hordes or go aggressive with 1 or 2 strong units as you know that you can revive them after the battle.
@@psyrebro you're talking from the players perspective tho, here the problem was ai. if ai enemy not only revived their units but also drained the region from winds of magic that i need to defeat them in the first place i'd be so mad. yes, it might be thematic, but i would make dealing with vc even more of a chore
@@limestone1709 No, it should happen regardless. However, it shouldn't happen if you kill the lord (and lords should flee, not crumble) since there is no character to do the resurrecting
I really enjoyed the campaign reviews but its so satisfying to see the Saving Disaster Battles videos again, and the swearing. Great stuff!
In one campaign I was killing Ghorst PLUS two other armies THREE TIMES. I defeated them fully, killed all Lords, all units vanished in front of my eyes on the battle map, and directly after the battle they were all still on the campaign map. O.o
"ROUND 2! FIGHT!"
vampire counts players be like: I can res 100% of my army after suffering a decisive defeat, totally balanced faction bro
I love my cheese faction but do want a rework when dlc do arrive
i mean generally speaking apart from blood knights all of their units are crap
@@effeee it dose not matter when you have to fight the same army four times in one turn, it will still kill you
I believe this is Legend's way of telling CA to fix the Vampire Counts
In my Drazoath campaign Ghorst became my biggest enemy, even greater than Grimgor because of exactly this. It took me about 40 turns (as I had other problems and just held him at the border for a while) and eventually two extremely high tier armament buffed armies to finally wipe him out. That mechanic may be lore accurate but I think it needs a cap, if you kill the lord for example, no resurrections, even if a new default lord replaces them.
Main thing they should debuff is how MUCH hp they gain back over their turn and over the end turn. If they just pop back to 1-10% hp and then take attrition from not being in Vampiric territory, well they aren't a threat, but if they pop back to 50%+ it just pops from a minor annoyance to an actual game ending threat at times.
I never fight vampires in open field nowadays, always sieging their settlements.
Have this currently in my Astragoth campaign with Vlad. The Vamps had Endgame crisis (still don't know why I kept it active) and when I made it to Zhufbar, I fought with Astragoth against like 6 Armies of Vlad and managed after like 20 Turns to finally take Castle Drakenhof and with the help of another army I was able within another 20 turns to push all the way to Averheim.
Well now I'm sitting there looking at Wurtbad where they currently have 10 armies and Kessler is sending another 5 my way. This is just such BS. I might be able to beat them at Wurtbad but they will just revive their forces and whipe my depleted force from the map as there is no way I'm able to hold Wurtbad with 2 depleted armies against at least 8 fully healed ones...
I love when they have 5 armies full of zombies beating warriors of chaos with great weapons that I need to fight at least 10 times.
I love the chaos dwarves its the only faction where I fear my own artillery which is both hilarious and testement to how strong the dreadquake mortar is lol
I only fear my own artillery if my frontline are actual ChaDs. If it's a bunch of orc "employees" then it's still very satisfying to watch. :D
@@tsunamie1015 goblin employee: we are not getting paid enougth for this.
Orc employee: we are not getting paid at all.
Skavens entered the chat....
Bombed everything....
Refused to elaborate....
Scurried away....
i had to take advantage of the fact that u can instaswap items across the map. I gave Astragoth a bunch of DR and regen from Skavor's bracers n pm blobbed Ghorst's armies to kill them all, it took 6 turns to kill them all permanently. (endgame crisis)
But ur genious in this game amazes me so much patience and planning knowing your army and your enemies, ur so skilled
CA really managed to make Ghorst into both annoying as hell and a hilarious meme at the same time😂
God I love chorf blunderbusses, the absolute GOAT ranged unit
"Are you winning son?"
"Well yes, but no."
In 1990 i played warhammer board games with my cousins , loved it , wish i got into it when in a pc but in too busy with good old warcraft online but damn they ruined thay now im a ps5 player but I really want to play this now , legend u are the man
Everyone Gansta - till Ghorst goes full White Walker mode...
Well, that explains why The Caravan of Blue Roses never seems to die out in the campaign on their own.
I find that Ghorst is the second most threating target to the Chaos Dwarfs right behind Grimgor.. he is such a pain to be at war with and is difficult to negotiate with.
It's like playing whack a mole, if the mole eats half of your mallet each time you swing
I killed him pretty quickly with Drazhoath, but I'm pretty sure I was lucky.
I seriously hate that the vc can do this, I had a vc crisis and ended up beating 4 stacks at once (just popped up and I attacked) for each one of them to go back to nearly 100% and just attack my settlements afterwards….
Hope you can continue and pull him out of this situation.
Tbh I don't even mind the fact that they revive their units, but WHY revive them at 50% health??? If it was 5-10% I think no1 would really mind, because you could autoresolve them.
I can recall one instance when playing Lokhir, some vampire count rebels were attacking my settlement for 20 CONSECUTIVE turns - I was winning every time, just wanted to check how ridiculous it can get XD
The vampire resurrection ability should be based on how many mortal enemies they kill during a battle. For example, say they kill a unit of your spearman and a sun dragon they should be able to summon a unit of zombified spearman and a zombie sun dragon. However, they should not just magically resurrect units that were obliterated in a battle that would be very fair because in a battle like this one where they got wrecked, they wouldn’t be able to resurrect basically anyone.
IT'S GHORSTIN' TIME
-My fucking brain every time while I shed endless tears upon seeing the absolute terror that is fucking Helman Ghorst in my campaign...
Holy smokes Ghorst. "You win, Which means i win too, check this revive mechanic!"
Yeah the revive dead mechanic was really frustrating to deal with. Had to wipe out Ghorst twice in one turn :/
True undeads at work my guy
This happens so much for me. I am currently playing a campaign as Greasus with a friend (Zhatan) and I was fighting Ghorst for 20 turns, because every time I wiped out his army, he just got it back and on top of that I had Kugath and Grimgor attacking me, it was a nightmare situation. I ended up pushing Ghorst to his Forest, but every time I ambushed him and wiped him out, he was ready on the next turn, full army and a half at his command ready to keep defending his city. I only managed to defeat Ghorst after backing off and he decided to attack Kugath's nearby army which allowed me to smash him and on the same turn take his city.
This is a great showcase of why there should be a mechanic allowing the defender to sally out the moment they get besieged instead of being crippled over their end turn. "Oh, there is an army of 2000 inside a fortress, that is mustering even more troops? Oh I know, I will lay siege to them with my 1 dude and stop them from recruiting anything and pause any construction in the settlement."
I wouldnt mind part 2 of this disaster situation.
"Why won't you die?"
"Necromancy, son"
the first saving your disaster battle with a required part 2 xD
That sort of face palming nonsense is EXACTLY why I have not gotten TWW3 yet. CA needs about 2 extra years to "fix" all the "fixes" they've "fixed". Anyhoo, great vid Legend.
Helman Ghorst: I am Invincible and cannot be defeated 😂
There is an easy way to fix this, on CA's part.
If "The Dead Rise Again" could ONLY trigger on a VC victory, not on a defeat, this would no longer be a problem. For the player, it would allow you to keep trucking on, and if its the AI they can no longer cheat and have invincible armies just by losing.
In theory after beating a vampire faction you'd destroy the corpses so they couldn't raise them again, so they couldn't raise much.
I see everything is working as intended for the Vampire Counts
necromancer grindset if i ever seen one
Not gonna lie, i absolutely hate the new "dead rise again" mechanic. It requires 0 skill, doesnt really benefit the player, but makes battles vs VC AI incredibly tedious, as they would just resurrect all their army after battle, and god forbid they were the attacker, because then you gonna battle against pretty much 100% replenished troops again (by the way, if you managed to wipe some of their troops, VC's would just reanimate some shit to fill the gap). And Ghorst is not only a killing machine at low levels, but once he gets the access to unique line with zombie buffs, you gonna have a really bad time, especially as melee-focused faction.
It's just bullshit, and reminds me of Necropolis in heroes 3, where if Necro player survives till late game (or assembles the cloak of "balanced" king), then you are fucked
Hey hey people.
The AI has one main objective....and that is to annoy and piss of the player as much as possible while denying a fun fight
I been loving the Nurgle games. Its been hardest games i had. Trying to beat Ghorst feels like dark souls like game. You need right rng and rolls to be able to beat him. Often you can lose if any army survives the fight and get 1 turn to get new full stack of high tier units. You need some luck too to deal its start 4 armies he has. He has them on turn 7 when you get near him.
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!
Ghorst like "yeah but what about the second SYDB?"
ROFL "Cant have him in the air, THERE ARE TERRORGHEISTS OUT THERE" Dammit so true
I am literally about to go into this situation. Just finishing off gressus and the blue roses have just declared on me... just have to try not get caught in a settlement i guess.
I got lucky in my Drazhoath campaign, and Greasus and Kugath took care of Helman Ghorst for me.
in tww2 i nearly lost a tomb king campaign to a quest battle faction that somehow raised 4 armies of waywatchers after i won the quest battle. i could barely handle them and their insane recruitment rate at turn 30. it was the most epic jank ive ever experienced myself in total war
In my game, playing chaos dwarves, i was up to the empire territory laying waste while the damn vampire end game happened and holy shit was it a pain to deal with. I had this situation happen so many damn time. I started to wonder if they had like 20+ armies.
I have the same man. Attacked them with 2 forces, Astragoth and a random lord and managed to defeat them at Drakenhof and Templehof pushing them all the way back to Wurtbad. Well, now I'm stuck at Averheim defending hords of Vampires. They have like 10 forces at Wurtbad and Kemmler is sending another 5 there too. So no way I can attack considering their broken reviving mechanic and massive armies. Even if I take Wurtbad, they'll defeat me over the end turn and retake it. So I just have to wait for a mistake on their end
I’ve been having this problem where they would siege my settlement, I would wipe them out, then they would replenish leaving my army that much weaker until I couldn’t fight anymore.
Man just got a very similar situation, only Ghorst with a normal stack and another stack with 15 Terrorgheists... went for a ambush autoresolve on the Terrorgheist stack, 90% resurrected, retreated into settlement and was immediately back on 100% hp, my army on 10% due to corruption attrition. AI Terrorgheist doomstack, fml.
The ratio of resurrection is completely re-diculous. Love it the idea but the amount is just frustrating..
Loved the campaign review series. Love seeing disaster battles again.
I recently had this issue too, nightmarish early game with kugath. It was before chaos dwarf release. Very difficult to win a battle against Helman with kugath army, his multiple altar units are just un killable if they stack, they regen each other faster than you kill them, even with kugath + 1 hero on them, kugath army has 000000 pierce armor, doomed situation. Had to restart the campaign 2 times
Guess we can expect a month straight of Chaos Dwarf disasters...
Are there some mods that are fine when submitting a campagin? Stuff like better camera or tastrful lvlups idk how modded games work wheb loading save files
Same thing happened to be on Zhatan lol the Sisters to the left of the starting providence came through with 3 groups, I fended them off twice and the third where they just revived and crushed me lol. I have limited experience with most of the races, especially Vampire Counts and had no idea what was going on. Is this normal? Or a bug? Can they just keep coming back?
Ghorst " Ahhh... Legend... our battles will be legendary."
This seems extremely winnable
That's rage quit worthy
With that Dweomer Item I thought about the Drizzt books instead. Dweomer this, Dweomer that constantly.
Since you covered all the lords, maybe you should make an IE LL tier list. Pretty please?
Alright, so it’s not just me! Ghorst is a roach that just refuses to be smashed.
Any faction: "ahah we killed all the enemies, this was a total victory"
Helman Ghorst: "Bet"
I think Vampire Counts have surpassed Skaven as the most insufferable AI enemy to fight against
Reminds me of when me in Realms of Chaos taking out Valkia the Bloody in a very high-casualty siege battle... only for the bitch to respawn with a new army on the other side of the province ONE FUCKING TURN LATER and basically destroying my entire strategy.
Every single Creative member of CA changed workplace, now only Assembly people remained.
I enjoy the relentless undead seems fitting but I understand the frustration, enjoyed watching this one!
The vampire’s bullshit of just getting everything back at full health is the least fun and most infuriating mechanic in the game. What, you just barely won a fight against a vampiric doom stack? Well here they are again, only your like 70% dead.
Then they can attack a 2nd and 3rd time with no consequence
I missed Legend imitating us :D
This is more Skaven than Skaven can dream of
Similar situation: I was playing Skarbrand trying to squash endgame crisis Sylvania, max crisis strenght. So basically the above but on steroids.
I killed so. many. stacks.
Good thing endgame Khorne armies are hilariously good especially vs undead, it was pretty cool seeing Chosen and Exalted Bloodletters maw thousands upon thousands of undead, but it was such a slog.
I remember Enticity This is total war run, where this happens 1000000times xD
Woooooow, a faction which you can't defeat strategically and can keep hurting you; very cool CA!
sydb is the best series, theres always a little trick i learn in each video
Why i lose defending city ať victory point when I got there units and crush almost all enemy ?
I sometimes even Frontline with blunderbusses especially when you get suppressing fire
i thought the infinite winds of magic was patched?
is there a way to still get it with lore of metal wizards?
Had something similar happen with the Lhamian Sisterhood. Took the silver pinnacle and didnt see a lord that was out raiding. I moved on and over the next 6 turns that raiding lord attacked over and over raisibg better dead after each battle until he took a settlement. Freaking annoying.
If they can’t kill you , they will kill you in second attempt.
Vampire counts OP as hell. High army regen post battle plus fighting any battle causes undead corruption in the area...which increases regen and raise dead...which means you fight again and again and again.... you almost literally can't lose
"dweomer" is basically just another word for spell or cantrip. comes up in things like D&D
Glad save my disasters are back.
I've lost an army to ghorst in the same way thankfully i was in a position it didnt matter much but i got a laugh out of it
I had this happen to me, four times he attacked me in one turn. every time i wiped his army it came back and on the fourth time I didn't have the troops to defend
had the same thing happen many times. this is way i hate all undead factions and always wipe them out
When the AI outcheeses the cheesemaster
I would 100% go find a trainer or cheat engine table if this happened to me lol holy crap that is some top tier BS!
Ugh yeah fighting ghorst is such a blast. Recently had the pleasure of fighting him as ogre kingdoms and I was forced to fight same army 3 times in a row to wipe it off -.-
This is why ghorst is my 3rd target after tretch and imrik in my legion of azgorh campaigns. Gotta take him out fast when he is still entangled with kugath.
This same vampire mechanic happened in my campaign also. I killed the same army multiple times, I thought it was a bug.