Explained: NATO SAM & AAA Systems 1934-1998 | DCS WORLD
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
- 0:00 Intro
1:14 WWII AAA
4:17 M-163 Vulcan
5:50 MIM-23B Hawk
10:10 Roland ADS
12:52 Flakpanzer Gepard
16:34 Avenger FIM-92
18:27 Stinger FIM-99
19:21 MIM-104 Patriot Pac-2
24:37 MIM-72G Chaparral
26:25 Rapier
29:11 M6 Linebacker
30:28 NASAMS
33:50 EVERYTHING
Russian SAMs Vid: • Explained: Russian SAM...
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Игры
I just realized how hard it is to fight real SAM sites that have human operators making real decisions like holding fire until a jet is in a bad spot
in reality you will have bombers going in while being covered by F16 with anti radiation missiles, and probably around +20-30 planes in the air, so turning radar on makes you a siting duck, just look at the bombing of Yugoslavia 99
Over 800 SAMs were fired by Yugoslav forces at NATO aircraft, including 477 SA-6s and 124 confirmed MANPADS, for the downing of only two aircraft and several more damaged.
now for this we could blame the crew of SAMs or NATO for not playing fair and using older planes in smaller numbers but reality is this
In Ukraine we can see that if you have a lot of SAMs it works, but even then SAMs can't shot down everything
If you watch the Linebacker again, you'll notice that it spun its turret and elevated the gun and launcher. At that position and elevation is the launcher pod reload position. IIRC, there are two guys in the back whose job is to pull the empties out of the launcher and put in new rounds. That's why the Linebacker didn't use its guns. It was reloading missles.
Also, the Gepard is built on a Leopard I hull chassis so it's a beefy boy.
wasn't the leopard 1 chassis an early cold war MBT built for speed & maneuverability with relatively thin armor?
i mean, i don't know what kind of ammo they've got in the flankers, but i'd imagine that there are ammo types with enough penetration to go through.
@@vukpsodorov5446 Thats a strong maybe; the leopard 1's armor was primarily to defeat autocannon rounds, and whether or not the flanker's gun would go through depends pretty heavily on exactly which ammo is loaded.
From what I can find the Leopard 1's armor was 70mm thick depending on location. To put that in perspective the M2A2 Bradley has about 14.5 mm of space laminate armor and that is supposed to be able to defend against 30mm autocannon fire.
@@qfinck It should be noted that all autocannon ammunition isn't the same, even for the same gun. For instance some soviet 30mm can easily peirce the front of an M2 Bradley but not the turret of the leopard.
Also angle of impact and piece or armor hit play a large role in penetration, however this does not appear to be modeled within DCS.
@@qfinck well yes, 70mm in certain places. mostly the front. the sides, real, and especially the top is a lot thinner.
that being said, while the bradley has thinner plates, it does use spaced & composite armor, whereas the leopard is made entirely of RHA.
still, after digging around i wasn't able to find all that much info regarding the penetration of the Gsh-30-1's AP rounds, and the info i did find was against heavily angled (around 60 degrees ) plates at 1000+ meters, with about 15-20mm of penetration.
I think the problem with the Patriot is less its capability and more its AI which blows its load at long range where the kill probability is low.
thats what I was thinking, because it is known to be a great site.
@@Minutemman No it isn’t. It’s notorious for underperforming. Only the most recent variants can be called decent.
lol. Lmao.
I approve of the Roland launcher at 12:48 exploding so hard, it briefly activated the switch window dialog and turned itself into the auto-cannon configuration.
12:00 the infantry guy with a Garand shooting too
bless his cotton socks
Stop telling them when it fires, especially with the IR ones. It’s supposed to be somewhat real and doing that makes it WAY easier to avoid
They just did what they did with Russian SAMs. Whether you like it or not the rule is to start dodging when the first bullet or missile is fired. If it was realistic, they would've used more Russian launchers instead of just one. Lol.
26:39 dad was part of the RAF Squadron who operated these out in the Desert in Gulf 1 and 2. The killer thing with Rapier is that it is just so insanely manouevrable. The gunners on Rapier were also drilled in firing them extremely well, so hit and kill was highly probable if a target came in kill zone. Fortunately in the Gulf Wars Iraq never managed to sortie over British Bases and so Rapier was never needed.
It was used in the Falklands, but was hampered by poor crew skill (they hadn't done training on Rapier for a couple of months) and lack of spare parts, as well as difficulty tracking targets thanks to ground clutter around Falkland Sound.
The Jeep really makes these videos pop when watching, due to size comparison showing how big or small these systems are IRL.
Kortana Scott and Simba GG.
Change your YT name Scott??
DCS really must focus on the AI part of the “sim”. Sure the modules are great but without a proper AI it becomes so stale.
Great video though 😁
Every time I see the Avenger I always think about how incredibly hot it must get inside of the gunner's cabin with that giant window while sitting out in the baking desert sun.
Got to sit in one. Ya it was lol. There is an ac unit in it but it's only for the equipment.
I can see Cap hiding random Gepards in future matches, for that "Surprise" factor
YUP!
Funny lol I was the radar guy for the avengers and the m6 linebacker
Patriot too
This game seems to discount all US weapons. But the Gepard looked like something out of the Terminator movies, can't wait to see it in some of the missions you do.
@@TeenTeenFpv Why?
@@TeenTeenFpv even Europe,the best System there is Aster
@@TeenTeenFpv Yeah Aegis with Spy-6 Is the best
@@TeenTeenFpv We do use NASAMs but only in certain places like Washington DC
NATO bot mad that the game accurately shows USA air defense is lacking 🤣
This shows there is something weird with the patriot AI it is completely useless in DCS . I think it needs fixing
To be more accurate it should only target friendly aircraft.
The engagement range is just too far out. So it won't wait to get higher Pk shots.
This is reality, Sam systems very expensive with questionable effectiveness
It's an area control system, and was reacted to every time. A good chunk of it's mission is anti ballistic missile, and those didn't to react till very recently. If the system gets a firing solution on a target that doesn't react*, it will usually work (at least in theory).
Nato has always been more reliant on it's interceptors, so if the system delays an adversary it can be regarded as a success. Granted, it probably would still have been better to have fewer missiles in the air at a time for that role, but the low pk isn't necessarily ineffective.
*Down side to this is that non military aircraft are the ones unlikely to react.
@@vasiliymedvedev1532 Like all systems, it depends on operator proficiency. To name a cheesy example, there is this movie about the incident with US plane over Yugoslavia where the radar operator turns off the radar to give the intruding American plane a false sense of security. If the operator is a noob, they might fire everything they've got the moment they see a threat without knowing if they have a realistic hit probability.
anyone else remember an older flying "sim" called SU-27 Flanker that was on DOS, and what feels like forever ago? i noticed a few of these looked familiar and even though it took me a min, it hit me that i remember them from SU-27 Flanker. i used to love playing that "sim" and honestly, id love to get ahold of a copy of it and spend hours on it again.
yes!
Outside of Shilka, the Gepard is probably the coolest AAA unit.
***Cries in Sgt York***
@@johngezon1220 Woooow!!!! What a disaster that project was.🙄
Interesting and fun to watch! Thanks GR
Last rant lol, the AI grinds my gears for patriot being a 14 series because we’d never fire at a target we know we wouldn’t hit, that being said though Patriot has been tailored more towards TBM’s.
The patriot AI is retarded its the first thing they need to fix...
Hot damn that Gepard!
I love how there’s cows out in the fields with the SAMs. That way, once the SAMs are destroyed you can have a bbq.
The difference between this and the Russian sam's is astounding, the strongest sam battery is the patriot, which in DCS (and maybe in real life) is hardly a threat. Which is usually compared to an SA-10, just worse in every category. Makes the PVP servers super weird with SAM balance.
Just to quote my favorite line from the vid: "Warn me when there's an actual sam coming and not a Patriot."
why does patriot suck so much? I hope it doesn't suck irl lol
@@TeenTeenFpv When you own the air there isn't a big need for these systems. As Russia is showing currently the US really has no air threat.
@@alf3071 incoming missiles dont dodge
@@TeenTeenFpv Welp. Vietnam was almost 60 years ago where pilot training and missile maintenance changed the scene. Guns changed nothing. Since that time aircraft and weapons have vastly improved and US pilots get all the flight time they can stomach. We are seeing in Ukraine right now that the Russian air force is dog shit and the planes aren't living up to the sales pitches and DCS reality.
For all the shit people give the US military, rightly so sometimes, it has shown that as far as air combat goes the US dominates and no air force can stand up to it.
If the US needed better ground based air defense they would have it.
@@TeenTeenFpv You have no idea what you are talking about! There was barely any US gun kills in Vietnam even after they added it back!
I am actually impressed that 50 cal MGs can reach 15k feet.
with the a hawk battery, it can guide any number of missiles to a single target per fire control radar, a normal site is 2 FCRs for six launchers.
Surprised they don't have the Nike sites.
MIM-3 Ajax was the worlds first operational and deployed sam, It's a wacky 2 stage much like the soviet S-75.
You really need to divide these into two types. Short range anti-helicopter "chopper poppers" and the strategic Sams.
Love the SAM videos!
Glad I found this channel, looks like a lot of prep work goes into these videos. Have you ever tried the flight described in the start of 'Where Eagles Dare'? Snow, darkness, over Swiss air space no light, it may be a challenge!
Cool idea
If you are talking about the flight that pilot says: "Some Messerschmidt is giving me a bad name on purpose by flying over the Swiss airspace" - then yeah it is based on real flights. Both sides "skirted" the Swiss Air border. Sometimes quite deeply. Of course they couldn't really protest if such plane was shot down by Swiss AA or CAP. Ans Swiss made so many protests that I thing papers would fill large room to the ceiling.
Great video. Fun to watch :)
Probably your best video series, man!
19:13 - Hahaha...I love how dude's like, "NOPE!! I'M OUT!!" 😆
As someone who served in a Gepard Battalion, I am very sad that they are no longer in service in the German Bundeswehr.
Stinger missile seeker has an IR and UV tracking abilities so it ignores counter measures and hits what's not admitting UV I.e a jet in the sky, however not sure when this seeker was put into service it could've been later then 89
thxx
Russians have caught up , DIRCM is implemented on the Su-57 ,not sure on other planes though.
IR/UV was the 1983 -92B model, Stinger POST. Followed by the 1989 -92C/RMP and the D and E.
+Grim Reapers I think the reason the Vulcan fired once and stopped at first was because it couldnt calculate the lead needed while kortana was flying directly overhead; would be a waste of ammo
Bless you and thank you very much!
Clam Shell, Low Blow and Square Pair all have CW antennas as a part of the system. Probably more do but I only looked up those three from the previous SAM overview video.
"Of course it was Kortana!"
I don’t have this game - but I’m a history nut. I can’t believe how much fun it is to watch you all playing this . The setups the detail everything! Well done ! I wish you all the best of 2022 and beyond
😢 0:24 8j 0:24 😢😮
Question, why do you give verbal warning of a missile being fired each time? Shouldn't they be relying on visual cues and their plane's systems?
agreed.
Its more that the soviets decided to make a lot of their SAM and RADAR posts mobile to adjust for the seasons, building a chain of fixed sites through Siberia (or the Ural mountains) would be a monumental task compared to driving crews out from artic bases to SAM posts
Cortana has some serious skills!! I like watching her in all the other videos. More display of her skills please
Yeh she did good.
Skip that, what's her phone number or email address???!!!
I love these Sam site videos they are the best
I would be interested in seeing one about Chinese SAMs. Great Vid Cap.
Hell yeah that would be awesome!
@@cassius_eu5970 agreed!
They are just Russian SAMs re-named to "HQ" series numbers.
@@grimreapers go figure, I would have thought they would have been using indigenous SAMs
Perfeito o vídeo ❤️
That was fun. There were a few surprises, in particular the Rapier. It did well against A4's 40 years ago but I'd assumed it was well past its sell by date. Even so it's going out of service this year.
I still think the Russian SAM's are scarier.
You'd be surprised what crew skill does. The emphasis with Rapier was on crew skill, much like Starstreak on the Stormer HVM (Army)
The operators are exceptionally skilled, as they have no proxy fuse, but their missiles are exceptionally fast and manouevrable. It's a tradeoff but the crews can afford to do that because they're trained exceptionally well.
@@firestarteronyoutube5542 crew skill is a good point, I hadn't thought of that in the context of SAM sites. Wonder how well trained russia's SAM crews are if their pilots are so inexperienced and how much of a difference that makes currently.
@@6105boe Well, they thought a cruising 777 was an enemy strike aircraft, so…
Rapier was basically redesigned in the 1990s. This was the Rapier FSC / 2k which is the 1990s model.
You guys thinking any country would model their top-notch equipment realistically in-game is toddler-naive.
It's a game for mass consumption. All you see is 20 years old tech (or more), with likely heavily modified real performance, managed by a VERY dumb AI.
This was great.. Exactly what I asked for.. I'm one of your loyal subscribers that doesn't play the game.. And I'm pretty disappointed that there are so few anti air from NATO and America... I thought it woulda been way more.
NATO is not very reliant on SAMS, hence why we don't really need many in game.
Good one!
For added comedy, they should put the Blowpipe MANPAD in the game : IIUC, no-one could ever hit anything with it.
The NASAMS is being upgraded with AIM-9X, IRIS-T and AMRAAM-ER missiles (basically Evolved Sea Sparrow with AMRAAM head). The upgrade will give both longer and short range improvements. Also keep in mind that the western systems have a very high degree of networking, which I believe the Russians lack. In other words, the NASAMS and the PATRIOT can network and automatically exchange tracking and firing data, together with data from airborne sensors like the E3 AWACS, E7 Wedgetail F22 and F35 (and basically every other NATO asset). This gives huge advantages.
Nike Hercules would be fun for a second.
agree
Gepard rules! Love the scary G. I. / cow hybrid centaur soldier at 15:00...
CONCLUSION? Use standoff weapons!! There is a reason why they attack with HARMs first.
Gepard
Krieger: "And the best part is he's learning." *Pats Gepard*
Great little educational experience. Have you done a TFR mission in a Tornado, like they started doing in Gulf War I against airfields? British stopped doing low level missions because they were too dangerous. Can the Grim Reapers step up to the plate and knock out the enemy runways?
No but hope to.
Rapier was pish in the falklands as well.
Much respect✊ from US definitely subscribing to our NATO Ally!
Next time add Spyder, Iron Dome and David's Sling systems :)
Great vid. Less kamikaze :)
The Gepard is built on a Leopard 1 chassis. Leo 1 is not a thick skinned tank but it can certainly withstand autocannon fire.
The standard man pad technique is to wait for the target to pass and shoot from the side and back
A video with the Chinese and European sam and aaa would be very welcome.
Awesome! Unfortunately, I think the best NATO SAMs are Naval, and thus, outside the scope of your video
Example: The Standard Missile series.
agree
@@cockatoo010 Yeah with Spy-6 Radar SM-6 and ESSM Too
Geez Cortana is a good pilot. Anyone would be lucky to have her on their team.
of note the chapparel has 8 spare missiles it carrys with it, reloading takes for ever do to the missiles needing to have there fins attached
thx
Com'on....taking out the VULCAN with a Kamikasi
The continuous wave radios to illuminate the target after it is being tracked. The receiver in the missile nose homes in on the reflected energy.
thx
Would be cool to see real tactics and not cheating like telling them where it’s firing or missiles away or kamikaze attacks.
Well in REAL scenario, they would jam on approach and launch HARMs until there were no radars left....THEN attack whatever target these systems were defending.
In my own testing, against large and small aircraft, varying speeds and altitudes, flat terrain (the ocean), the Patriot missile system was essentially useless. SHORADS (Avenger) were more effective. This just confirmed everything I had gamed out. I remember a couple of scenarios GR did against the Roland and just got blotted out of the sky!
The biggest problem with patriot is that the AI handles the system way differently then how it is IRL. That being said Patriot has a far better track record against ballistic missiles
@@vulgar_potato4992 👍👍
You should try this with three Stinger guys and without telling jets missile have fired.Telling jets Fox Two missiles are out removes one of their best strengths. (I also think the games Ai limits the utility of the patriots).
VERY GOOD VIDEO AND THE Flakpanzer Gepard IS MY PERSONAL FAV OF NATO AAA AND SAM SYSTEMS. NO ONE CAN BEAT THE MIGHT GEPARD. ALSO IT MEANS cheetah its French.
Love the idea of using a Jeep for tooling around and getting a sense of scale. But I'm a VR user, and the DCS Store says that Combined Arms doesn't support VR. Is that true that driving a jeep wouldn't be in VR? I've ejected and walked around aircraft to get a proper sense of their size using VR, would welcome being faster than the walking pilot.
feature request: rollerskates for ejected pilots
16:00 the Gepard is glitched
gepard even op in DCS, war thunder it can kill, good maneuver, and it can kill planes so good.
No dodging dodgy person. Your vocabulary is legendary Cap. From yours truly, valued viewington uington (spelling?)
Performance of Rapier,Roland,Gepard and Nasam was Sweet beautiful European Systems ❤️.(Also Chaparral In-game model needs update 🤢).
Oh my god. The Gepard is my new hero.
Mine too! I couldn't believe the beating it took and kept fighting. Definitely going to bring S-24's for it next time
@Cap. I don't know how to get video requests to you, so do it here.
Would like to see A-10 flying low past various SAM sites to attack a target a few miles away. Maybe an adjust to your highway of death, but with a local SAM network.
Flakpanzer Gepard: wow...
I want the Gepard guns mounted to the side of a Leopard 2 turret.
agree
Good stuff as always. Does Cortana have a channel?
yes
Yep! 😊
Mooooooo! Thank you!
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 68
agreed
The Patriot ECS should be placed behind the Radar and rhe epp should be off to the right side of the two if you're going for accuracy
Those US soldiers are brave, standing close to the launchers not afraid of the blast.
Dcs IA knows no fear.
@@PaletoB yes amazing not even go prone when fired upon.
Thanks!
Thanks Sir
"Wow! That's hard". That's what Cap said!
Thanks
Thanks Henry
so for a future redo go the full iads route and put multiple gepards in.
Gotta test a BOMARC missile Cap ;)
Is it possible to do a naval version of this? Might be interesting.
I did think this but TBH the actual naval SAMS in game are very sparse.
The fact you are telling them who is targeted ruins the whole experiment.
So if you didn't tell them the IR missles are coming, how would they do? Usually I get hit from the side when I can't see it coming.
the Vulcan gun is what we Americans call accuracy by volumes i..e put up a very dense and very large wall of rounds that is not so easily dodged. look clips of ciws or animations of the you'll know what I mean when I say a wall of lead is more cost effective than a missile 5:28 is when it actually starts working
I started out in a Linebacker
nice
It's funny that here in Germany the military said the Gepard is outdated so we had the tanks but no ammo, Brazil got tanks and ammo and now everyone sees what a beast the gepard is in use in the Ukraine
14:05 wow the soldier with the bolt action rifle shot down the jet!!!111!1!!1!!
Can you do another fly through the ha noi sam alley again? But this time using the most modern AA and AAA
Cool idea
The russian sams do not need to be as mobile as they wage war via roads on the asian continent so sizeis not amajor factor.
The americans wage war on foreign shores so have developed systems to be more mobile and a smaller size so they can transport enough in volume to make enough of a dent to be effective... geography of the usa has so much influence on its systems its unbelievable
Though yeah that’s the bane of a patriot battery, we have no short range air defense too cover the gap
I haven't played around with the campaign stuff yet but is the newer stuff like the C-Ram or the THAAD in game?
Not yet.
Actually all IR missiles are best fired from behind and short range ground based side winders would hide until passing and shoot the engine from behind
Cortana telling Simba to bury his face in it hahaha