Kortana: If you go below 15 meters for too long you blow up. Cap: *flies under 15 meters for too long and blows up* Also Cap: Ahh what killed me!? The SAM!?
@Kortana "... chances are the HARM will just fall, you know, HARMlessly somewhere half a mile away." 9:50 Gotta respect that pun game. I felt you deserved credit for this.
The Scud is indeed thrust vectored. Most large rockets and missiles steer using thrust vectoring during the boost phase, it allows them to remain in control even after climbing so high that there is almost no air for movable fins to act on. In the case of the Scud, all aiming is done via the thrust vectoring system, once the engine shuts down the missile is totally uncontrolled and just flies on a ballistic arc.
Hi guys ! The choice between the Gladiator and the Giant is made depending on the expected impact point of the Scud. If the impact point is close enough to the S-300VM site, then the Gladiator will be used. This is because both missiles have roughly the same max interception altitude, so if the threat is within 9M83ME range it isn't efficient to fire a 9M82ME volley at it. Another important detail: the S-300V/VM system is designed as an Army-level defense system. You will never see two or three of them at the same place, they're spead over the front line approximately 250km one from another. The layers used are also quite different from what you did. The S-300V/VM is the higher tiers system, while SA-17s and SA-15s are used for medium and short range protection respectively. Those systems are interconnected using a dedicated command post such as the Polyana-D4M. By contrast, the SA-10/20s are PVO systems, they are not used along the S-300V/VM. Glad to see you're having fun with the mod.
Great to know that bit about the Gladiator vs the Giant. I was never quite sure what would encourage it to fire one over the other. And lol, yeah, I took some liberties in the design of the defenses for the island, in part because I knew I was going to fire some scuds at it and I didn't want to trust it to the S-300 PMU-1 and -2 alone. Thanks again for your hard work!
Oh Cap, I think you fell afoul of the harddeck. I was watching the "You are too low!" msg and yelling "Pull up you pillock, pull up!" Great work Cap, Kortana and Simba, very entertaining.
That was majorly cool. Your guy's knowledge of all this is so impressive. I load DCS, get killed, turn it off and go back to my racing. I don't have a clue how to create scenarios so this is great fun to watch.
The Scud does have thrust vector control, same as the V-2 They have graphite vanes in the exhaust stream that can deflect the plume for control when the aerodynamic surfaces aren't effective.
Awesome!! I think that a couple flights of Mig-21s doing wild weasel with anti-radiation missiles as diversion, while a flight of Bombers throw some cruise missile types in a TOT attack in conjuction with that flight of scuds. TOT =Scuds are intercepted Weasles and anti radiation @ -10 seconds cruise missiles impact @ +10 seconds spit the defenses attention with weasels throwing harms 10 seconds before the scuds get fired upon, cruise missiles arrive 10 sec after the first shots at the scuds. all at once... sorta thing
Dear Cap & Grim Reapers, This video was fascinating, I'd love to see a full-scale, dedicated attempt to beat this IADS! Could you please make another video and try to engage this a second time with more players and AI? I'd love to see you try again with greater numbers! The entire video, I was trying to plan a way to beat the island, and I think you guys came really close! I think you'd have a better chance of winning if you combined both of the strategies you used in this video. If you'll permit me, I'll describe what I think the *ideal* strategy might be. It's going to be long, but I put lots of thought into this, so I'd love to see what you think! Le Plan: - Two waves of aircraft; one wave (ideally 20 planes) of AI-piloted Hornets, and a SECOND wave of 8-10 players. - AI planes would start at altitude, split into flights like you showed, and carry SLAM-ERs. - Player aircraft would start low, and carry a mix of weapons. - Player weapons can be anything, foreign or domestic, but ideal loadouts should have: *1.* Something for long range that exploits the altitude limits of the SAMs, and *2.* something to shoot at the Baddie Base once you're closer to the island. You want to avoid being shot by AAA, so A2G missiles or rockets may be best. *_From what I gathered, an ideal strat. may look like this:_* *Phase 1* - The attack starts with all 20 A.I. Hornets launching SLAM-ERs, totaling 80 missiles. *Staying in the fight,* the AI then descend to match the players at low-altitude, adding to the # of things OPFOR must keep track of. *Phase 2* - The players, staying as low as they can, enter from the northwest, on a line that runs diagonally between the two northern cities. This should (hopefully) reduce the number of SAMs & SPAAGs between them and the target. Once in range, they launch their long-range missiles. Phase 2 continues like we saw; players dodge SAMs and slowly slalom their way to the OBJ _P.S. please bring enough fuel this time, preferably without using any ordnance stations for drop pods. If there's an option for infinite fuel, please use it. I'd love to see you win, so I'll suspend my disbelief if it lets you maximise your weapon count!_ *Phase 3* - Ideally, the SAMs have fallen for our bait of LR missiles and brave A.I. sacrifices, and by now the players have gotten inside the SAM envelope. Now, gain just enough altitude for your weapons to clear the buildings as they approach, and engage the enemy. By putting your target between you and the AA, and using weapons with some range to them, you should be able to attack the base without exposing yourself to heavy AA or MANPADS fire. *Phase 4* - If all else fails, you know what to do - gun runs and faceplants. Do it for the glory! *Conclusion:* Sorry for the super long post, I just love dissecting tactical situations like this! I think you had a good plan going, just lacked the numbers to pull it off. You showed that it is _possible_ with your SLAM-ER attack, you just need *moooore!* Besides that, just _avoid_ triggering that enemy SRAA/CIWS as much as possible by using self-homing or saturation weapons (A2G missiles, Rockets, etc) and that should be all you need to beat this IADs! I look forward to hearing your thoughts! I'd love to see GR beat "Skynet 2.0"! Good hunting! ~Ravenna
Not fun fact: the gulf War patriots actually didn't kill many scuds, and it's actually debated if a single Iraqi scud was ever actually defeated by a patriot. This is generally attributed to patriots being proximity fused as they initially developed for anti-aircraft roles, and the dramatically lower effectiveness proximity fused interceptor missiles have against terminal missiles as opposed to hit-to-kill interceptors. To this day the efficacy of the Patriot systems on ballistic missiles remains controversial, even with the newest iterations in service.
Oh there very effective by the fact that a memoir of a weasel pilots they were initially skeptical of manufacturer claims of the patriots until the first couple of engagement in which the patriot intercepted the first couple of scud aimed at their base by the latter part of ODS they they basically did not even bother to react to the missile siren.
I am so glad you did a Video on these Cap, My GR mission I completed for us has these HighDigitSams protecting the chemical weapons bunker that needs destroying. You can emphasize how important team work will be to destroy these things. It has been sent to Tux last week for testing then going to Bendy. If all goes well, we should be flying it end of this month to beginning of next
Great job with death island Kortana! I wonder how death island 2.0 with the SAM sites spread out and defense in depth would stand up to a tomahawk barrage?
*mostly* intact. Iraq modified their SCUDs to extend their range, which caused the warhead to be unstable during reentry (not by design though) giving it a wonky unpredictable path, making it all the harder to hit and inflict fatal damage by the Patriots. Also there was this not so fun software bug, which would show only if the Patriot site went on for more then several hours without a restart, causing the track radar to loose track, it took them a while to get a software update out.
There was a really big problem with Patriot vs Scud in that the Scud was a far bigger target than the warhead. Most of the Patriots "killed" already-dead boosters.
Was it late model SA-11s or SA-17s that Finland received as debt payment in the mid 90s? They put them in storage over concerns of EW vulnerabilities and replaced them with NASAMS 2.
Its good when Cap dies early in these missions because then we get good cinematics for the rest of the mission instead of just the same view from his cockpit for the whole mission.
Since you can shoot missiles with missiles (Aim 9s), try 3-4 Hornets packed with Sidewinders and (try to) shoot a corridor to the baddies with a single bomb?
Can I just point out, 11:50 ish Saddam using the SCUD's wasn't meant as a strike weapon. It was ACTUALLY meant to aggravate the Israeli's into joining the Gulf War. Syria was allied with NATO back then. And Saddam knew if he could provoke Israel into joining the war against him, Syria having the greater numbers would never work along side the Israeli Armed Forces. Thus severely weakening NATO forces.
@@nevermindmyname9153 It wasn't far off working either. Patriot wasn't particularly successful as a SAM when it came to actually shooting down Scuds, but from a political and strategic point of view it did its job by persuading Israel that it was sufficiently well protected that it could stay out of the war.
The SCUDs are thrust vectored. Unlike how most conventional rocket engines "gimbal" (the engine bell (the cup looking thing) points in a direction), the SCUDs use the fins that are in that exhaust to direct the thrust.
This was great! Definitely a teaching moment for sure! Wonder what the cost of the defense verses the attackers cost in currency? Also for FYI soviet SCUDs (being an area weapon) would have been use in larger numbers against a target. Like 30+. This was an interest excise on a flat AO with no Masking available. It would be interesting to see the excise in DCS with terrain and masking. Where weapon toss tactics are required.
The SCUD is indeed thrust vectored. Those gray vanes in the exhaust are thrust vectoring vanes. It’s actually the same basic system as was used by the V2
IIRC a modern HARM will use the EM data to continuously compute & revise the emitters GPS coordinates and will revert to that location if it loses lock on the emitter. So they'll probably get pretty close to the radar if it remains stationary. Edit: the -E has the ability to remember where an emitter was if it shuts down AND a millimeter-band radar to look for targets. Nasty!
@@trolleriffic Its debatable whether or not any currently in service ground based surveillance radars are LPI. IIRC All FCR radars used by the S-300/S-400 family are PESA. The NEBO-M is an AESA radar but very low frequency, likely with quite large side-lobes.
In Israel, at the war in 1991, the Patriot missiles must of the time miss the Iraqi scuds and even hit City one time. My dad lived near one of the American sites in Central Israel. I believe it's because of the Patriot missile design for aircraft and not to shot down ballistic missiles. You can see something similar to that today when some incidents which Syrian S200 missiles launched towards Israel, and when our air defense tried to intercept them-must of the time they failed.
Hey Cap, I've a video suggestion. Did you ever play the game "Sharks and Minnows" on the playground as a kid? Why don't you do the same with a Skynet IADS? Put, say, a 30 mile radius around the IADS, throw all of GR into it, and see who's the last man/woman standing. No trying to kill the SAMs, infinite ammo for the SAMs, and exploding heads if you go outside the zone. As GR members are eliminated, they can respawn as either AAA or SHORAD SAMs.
Question.. could you do a "coffee campaign" style setup making use of this system? Perhaps even a new campaign idea with similar rules in that you get limited number of air frames and you have to work out the missions yourselves.
You could recreate the 1973 Arab Israeli war where Egypt had new Soviet kit (Kubs and ZSU-23-4S). Kubs forced Israeli jets to fly close to the deck and right into the ZSU-23-4s. Seems like all the kit required for that is in game. Other than the IADS in North Viet Nam near Hanoi and Haiphong, Egyptian IADS is probably the only other real world example of a large scale and effective use of a IADS.
Here's a valued viewer request. Put the names of all the airfields in DCS into a hat (or a random number generator) and pick one at random. The airbase which is chosen gets this SAM network installed there, with intelligent design choices by Evil SAMmaster Kortana. Then The Reapers must attack it, using the terrain to their advantage. The island is ideal circumstances for big SAMs. Genghis Khan himself would struggle to find a parcel of land flat enough that there wouldn't be at least some kind of cover. This video was the science. Now let's make it THE GAMES.
My wife and I only watch the Cortana episodes. But in fairness, if there were episodes without Cap then we'd probably only watch the ones with both of you guys.
Interesting. On the TALD launch, yes, the missiles killed 4 TALDs, but a second launch never happened to splash the other 4. Was that a Skynet thing, were the SAM sites smart enough to not shoot at the TALDs but the missiles themselves weren't? What went on there?
What about bombardment via naval guns? Could we not get some ships close enough to shell the baddies? Or is the scenario that this is a pop up meeting of the Legion of Doom and there’s no time to get ships close before they leave?
@@grimreapers I know that Counter Rocket Artillery And Mortar (C-RAM) is a thing... but there's a world of difference between a small man portable mortars shells and 18 inch naval shells. Surely there's a point where the shell itself could shrug off most C-RAM? I have learned so much watching you guys.
@@goodluckfox The biggest shells in western naval service are just 5" these days (I think), and the heavy 16" ones that the Iowa class used would take a lot to shoot them down but those guns had very short ranges compared to modern missiles.
I think there would be Chemtrail ops deploying metallic dust chems some hours ahead dragged by the wind so that it would jam up their radar screens with a big apple pie sauce rending the SAM's unable to lock. Only IR SAM systems like the Chineese one would work. The F-18's would then have to CBU the place, using Maverics too... Like the Brush tool in paint programs as a line, forward displaying the spread path, simulating a chemtrailing operatons hours ago.... For the Editor: Would be an interresting feature added to have for the mission editor, able to place radar fog dust zones that moves with the wind.
IRL SAMs have a very low percentage kill against cruise missiles. They have a very low RCS and are very tough to detect if the mission route is planned well. The overwhelming majority of the cruise missiles fired by the USN and USAF have never even been engaged by enemy SAM systems.
In the main they were engaging poor quality IADS that was badly run and not well integrated with other parts of the military such as utilising aircraft to provide additional cover as well as a look down/shoot down capability against targets like cruise missiles.
@@Brokkolesz There's contradicting claims regarding how many Tomahawks were intercepted in the 2018 strike on Syria but none of the 19 JASSM fired got shot at.
So, I just had a thought. Why don't we make stealth decoys similar to TALD? Use luneburg reflectors (like what are used on the F-35 in civilian airspace) to produce a radar return for the missile and retract them right after the missile launches. That way the missile looses track, possibly self destructs and frags the launcher, and one decoy can take out multiple missiles.
@@ryanpayne7707 If you bring explosives, you might as well have the decoy home in on the SAM radar. I think we just invented suicide drones, oh wait, they already exist...
@@torarne7796 Except then you'd need to place a seeker head and some sort of control system on it. I'm just thinking a simple 5lbs of C4 and a barometric fuse.
@@grimreapers I´m wondering if have a set of prepared answers if someone asks personal things? If yes I could maybe add one: Q: Whats her phone-number A: 1688, now run!
Great vid cap, wanted to ask if a pilot could notch this much and this long in real life because wouldn’t that much g force in a short period of time be too much for the body. Also i think you guys should try this with some the stealth aircraft mods ie; F-22 F-117 B-2 etc. plus is there an S-400 mod that could work with this?
Math, science, unlimited defense budgets, unlimited testing "faces" and relentless "hors d'oeuvres" and somehow my ADD/ADHD did not require any Adderall! Simply because it was pure ENTERTAINMENT!!!! Goodness I love watching Team GR and maybe one day, when I grow up, I can come fly with the Elite.... Elite professionals and comedic relief!
Well this is much better IADS test than first test. BUT still missing AWACS, QRF aircraft, patrolling naval AD assets and better IADS asset deployment i.e. IADS is designed for defense in depth
FYI.. in something like this you would run wo ecm until fired upon by the sams or really even another fighter in a long range engagement.. you switch the ecm on right before notching.. this makes the notch much more effective.. especially against big fast movers who lack agility.. You’re also too low.. wo being able to drop down and gain speed notching is pretty ineffective when you don’t have terrain to hide behind
@GrimReaper I'm trying to make a simulation on DCS about SAM patriot to be able to intercept the SCUD B Missile. but why does the Patriot always fail to intercept it?missiles launched too late to intercept it?
Going by conflicts over the last 30 years or so, I think a 'real life' attack would be saturation tomahawk, say 2 Tico's, 4 Arleigh Burke and a couple of subs all launching together? I'm not sure the DCS ships will salvo enough land attack cruise though? Maybe simulated with a 30-40 ship B-52 tomahawk launch?
Large numbers of air launched JASSM/JASSM-ER would be the best bet, similar to what occured in Syria in the last few years. The JASSM's are not only very low altitude flying but also rather stealthy.
I’d like to see a compilation of all the times when a bog died very hard Edit: Ultimate Grim Reapers challenge: how many bogs can you kill in an hour any plane any missile no mods
A great video would be you guys talking about yourselves by way of introduction for a couple of minutes each. You all seem to have a great deal of know how, would be interesting to hear how you each got it by way or service or SIM practice 👍🏼
Me: Kortana sounds so sweet and innocent... Also Kortana: Check out my island of death..!!!! Also how do you know that wasn't the real Jesus and his love of cows.....??
There is a MOD in the DCS download area which makes SCUD missiles accurate enough to hit points instead of cities, and then, it can strike on carrier group too
Missiles are programed to explode if they miss their target so if they loss track of a target or can't physically manouver to hit them then they will self-destruct to avoid damaging an unintended target. So that is what you are seeing in the game
I guess the effectiveness of these modern SAMs is the reason why stealth and hypersonics have become so important. So try attacking these with f35s. Or perhaps Russia's new hypersonic missile of you have them. Too bad the splash range of shrapnel after killing a high-velocity missile doesn't seem to be modeled. If it detonates on it's own it has splash damage, bit if you kill it it just disappears.
The missile kill thing is definitely an issue with ASMs like the P-700 (Shipwreck) which had a penetrating warhead that was in itself effectively quite heavily armoured. Hitting the missile at close range with a CIWS wouldn't stop what's left of it ploughing through the side of the ship and causing massive damage.
I'd actually love to see this same scenario, but with a couple team members in f-22's "wild-weaseling" and a third team member trying to stick damage in something closer to an f-35
Cortana 👍👍👍 I wanna see you kick some dudes ass in a dogfight, you have a channel? Ps Grim Reapers you bring happiness and laughs (I love flight sims (solo flight, Atari 800, 1982) and love watching RC get blown up, repeatedly. I love you guys.
Cap, you mentioned you’ve been at it for half a decade or so, have you got an estimate of how many hours of flight time that represents? This is to arm my patience… 😅
I think I started 6 years ago. So time spent on GR would be 300 days per years, that's 3000 hours per year, that's 18000 hours. Assuming about 20% of that is flight time = 3600 Virtual flight hours over 6 years and so far 0.1 hours of real life flight time :)
Can any ship launched weapons intercept these SAMs, as an example can a RIM shoot down a Gladiator? Just thinking if a single Aegis ship could assist the attacking aircraft.
I would have thought it was possible, but in reality the ships would be staying well away because going close to land is hazardous since it's so easy to hide missiles or have torpedoes and minefields waiting for you.
CBU 5000 SCUD ? Is there a Scud that would dispense above thousands of things like the CBU 99? Raining down on an area of about 5 KM. That could not be prevented by SAM's and AAA.... Would be interesting if a cyber programmer could edit the Scuds file adding the CBU program with 5000 / 8000 / 20000 anti tank droplets released in a about 20000ft.The scuds flight path had to be further stretched out, then parabolicly falling straight onto the site.
great attempt at a IADS but it still lacks something, for one is that DCS lacks stand alone jammers and decoys for land based SAMs (which are like your jammer pods, flares and chaff) which adds a new complexities. Right now in the game if you can fire off a HARM at one of them they are dead if they can't shoot it down. Game limitations aside, this is something that should be noted.
In one of your previous vids, you said you don’t get launch warnings against S-300 or new line…well I worked on AH-1W’s, Russia gave Syria 300’s they tried using them against our AH-1W’ and UH-1N’s, when operating near the border, in Iraq, 08. They missed our birds, due to flares, and other countermeasures, and MWR, so yes, we know when Sams are targeting/shot and other guidance systems, I know, I worked on those systems as avionics, we worked on every electrical/electronic system and part on those…and no I won’t say how they do it, but rest assured, US birds know when someone is searching, tracking, locked, have fired. And we have great countermeasures, so chances are great the bird is getting home, as long as the pilots reacts fast and well. They couldn’t even knock down helos, in terrain that favored the Sam sites, yes we were still in Iraq, they were shooting from Syria, we heard our comms blowing up with targeting and lock, firing calls from the pilots, the sams shooting at them, all missed, no damage to our flight of two, one cobra, one Huey. They wanted to fire back, we’re denied permission. Everyone truly underestimates US technology, except those who have faced it, of they are lucky enough to survive and overstates soviet equipment, yes I still call them that, as they still act like the soviets, only the name has changed, not actions and beliefs. Or tactics, or technology for the most part. Their newest missile in 08 couldn’t even shoot down helicopters originally designed and fielded in the early to late 60’s, sore they’ve been vastly upgraded, but still just helos, unarmored at that, and yes, the squadron I was part of, half of our birds flew and fought in Vietnam, and upgraded since, the other half, made right after. As at first, they were UH-1’s, the the. AH-1 came about, because us US marines turned UH’s into gunships, the. The army learned from us, then the government was like wow, these are great and work, let’s make some dedicated gunships, that’s how it went down. So the first purpose built gunship was born. Then we spilt our birds, along with the other squadron, and got AH-1’s, and they stood up other squadrons with the extra UH and AH
@@rnash999if debris hit sams? Ofc. If there more than 1km to debris it's still possible to have some shadowing effect, but, it's incomparable to proper decoys, that can significantly block line of sight
How to install this mod any help ? Plz
ruclips.net/video/tX13C_XXuMo/видео.html
@@grimreapers thx
I like how Kortana brings an air of competence to these lovable goobers.
^^ I agree... ( to the top comment lol)
@Drew Smith sus
Right??? She had to pause to translate his questions and compile her response accordingly. Her comprehension level is up there.
Indeed 👍🏼
Kortana: If you go below 15 meters for too long you blow up.
Cap: *flies under 15 meters for too long and blows up*
Also Cap: Ahh what killed me!? The SAM!?
shut up grump!
everything about that mission was going to kill us hahah
@@simba1113 which means u can definitely blame kortana
@Kortana "... chances are the HARM will just fall, you know, HARMlessly somewhere half a mile away." 9:50 Gotta respect that pun game. I felt you deserved credit for this.
lol
lol
The Scud is indeed thrust vectored. Most large rockets and missiles steer using thrust vectoring during the boost phase, it allows them to remain in control even after climbing so high that there is almost no air for movable fins to act on. In the case of the Scud, all aiming is done via the thrust vectoring system, once the engine shuts down the missile is totally uncontrolled and just flies on a ballistic arc.
Hi guys !
The choice between the Gladiator and the Giant is made depending on the expected impact point of the Scud. If the impact point is close enough to the S-300VM site, then the Gladiator will be used. This is because both missiles have roughly the same max interception altitude, so if the threat is within 9M83ME range it isn't efficient to fire a 9M82ME volley at it.
Another important detail: the S-300V/VM system is designed as an Army-level defense system. You will never see two or three of them at the same place, they're spead over the front line approximately 250km one from another. The layers used are also quite different from what you did. The S-300V/VM is the higher tiers system, while SA-17s and SA-15s are used for medium and short range protection respectively. Those systems are interconnected using a dedicated command post such as the Polyana-D4M. By contrast, the SA-10/20s are PVO systems, they are not used along the S-300V/VM.
Glad to see you're having fun with the mod.
thx
Great to know that bit about the Gladiator vs the Giant. I was never quite sure what would encourage it to fire one over the other. And lol, yeah, I took some liberties in the design of the defenses for the island, in part because I knew I was going to fire some scuds at it and I didn't want to trust it to the S-300 PMU-1 and -2 alone. Thanks again for your hard work!
Hi9ttrtr
Oh Cap, I think you fell afoul of the harddeck. I was watching the "You are too low!" msg and yelling "Pull up you pillock, pull up!" Great work Cap, Kortana and Simba, very entertaining.
39:58 That tanker had a proper name. Quite speedy.
Is that Cap "Sum Ting Wong" or "We Tu Lo"? ruclips.net/video/gpP2S6c74Ts/видео.html
thx i can die with the best of them
That was majorly cool. Your guy's knowledge of all this is so impressive. I load DCS, get killed, turn it off and go back to my racing. I don't have a clue how to create scenarios so this is great fun to watch.
It seems like Kortana has become a real SAMologist., great work 👍
yup
The Scud does have thrust vector control, same as the V-2 They have graphite vanes in the exhaust stream that can deflect the plume for control when the aerodynamic surfaces aren't effective.
Then as the graphite burns away the conventional surface have enough airspeed to take over
Similar to Aim9X
TheGranicd I didn’t know that the sidewinder was thrust vectored
thxx
@@loganjefferies3927 They weren't until AIM-9X which was a huge upgrade to the Sidewinder.
Awesome!!
I think that a couple flights of Mig-21s doing wild weasel with anti-radiation missiles as diversion, while a flight of Bombers throw some cruise missile types in a TOT attack in conjuction with that flight of scuds.
TOT =Scuds are intercepted
Weasles and anti radiation @ -10 seconds
cruise missiles impact @ +10 seconds
spit the defenses attention with weasels throwing harms 10 seconds before the scuds get fired upon, cruise missiles arrive 10 sec after the first shots at the scuds.
all at once... sorta thing
Dear Cap & Grim Reapers,
This video was fascinating, I'd love to see a full-scale, dedicated attempt to beat this IADS! Could you please make another video and try to engage this a second time with more players and AI? I'd love to see you try again with greater numbers!
The entire video, I was trying to plan a way to beat the island, and I think you guys came really close! I think you'd have a better chance of winning if you combined both of the strategies you used in this video.
If you'll permit me, I'll describe what I think the *ideal* strategy might be. It's going to be long, but I put lots of thought into this, so I'd love to see what you think!
Le Plan:
- Two waves of aircraft; one wave (ideally 20 planes) of AI-piloted Hornets, and a SECOND wave of 8-10 players.
- AI planes would start at altitude, split into flights like you showed, and carry SLAM-ERs.
- Player aircraft would start low, and carry a mix of weapons.
- Player weapons can be anything, foreign or domestic, but ideal loadouts should have:
*1.* Something for long range that exploits the altitude limits of the SAMs, and *2.* something to shoot at the Baddie Base once you're closer to the island. You want to avoid being shot by AAA, so A2G missiles or rockets may be best.
*_From what I gathered, an ideal strat. may look like this:_*
*Phase 1* - The attack starts with all 20 A.I. Hornets launching SLAM-ERs, totaling 80 missiles. *Staying in the fight,* the AI then descend to match the players at low-altitude, adding to the # of things OPFOR must keep track of.
*Phase 2* - The players, staying as low as they can, enter from the northwest, on a line that runs diagonally between the two northern cities. This should (hopefully) reduce the number of SAMs & SPAAGs between them and the target. Once in range, they launch their long-range missiles. Phase 2 continues like we saw; players dodge SAMs and slowly slalom their way to the OBJ
_P.S. please bring enough fuel this time, preferably without using any ordnance stations for drop pods. If there's an option for infinite fuel, please use it. I'd love to see you win, so I'll suspend my disbelief if it lets you maximise your weapon count!_
*Phase 3* - Ideally, the SAMs have fallen for our bait of LR missiles and brave A.I. sacrifices, and by now the players have gotten inside the SAM envelope. Now, gain just enough altitude for your weapons to clear the buildings as they approach, and engage the enemy. By putting your target between you and the AA, and using weapons with some range to them, you should be able to attack the base without exposing yourself to heavy AA or MANPADS fire.
*Phase 4* - If all else fails, you know what to do - gun runs and faceplants. Do it for the glory!
*Conclusion:* Sorry for the super long post, I just love dissecting tactical situations like this! I think you had a good plan going, just lacked the numbers to pull it off. You showed that it is _possible_ with your SLAM-ER attack, you just need *moooore!*
Besides that, just _avoid_ triggering that enemy SRAA/CIWS as much as possible by using self-homing or saturation weapons (A2G missiles, Rockets, etc) and that should be all you need to beat this IADs!
I look forward to hearing your thoughts! I'd love to see GR beat "Skynet 2.0"! Good hunting!
~Ravenna
I never knew Cortana was so advanced and natural sounding. All this time I had her deactivated on my windies 10.
lol
Cortana sounds so stressed. I want to bring her a warm beverage. But that voice tho
I really need to get into the habit of taking an hour to wake up and have coffee before trying to speak extemporaneously, lol
Did this whole exercise on paper a while ago. This is really cool. Thank you!
I think 6am is already early enough...
i think you did really well
Well, that's me learned a new word.
Yay I learnt a new word I can not pronounce! Thanks Kortana :D
At 12:32, captain admiring the scenery from the perspective of an incoming missile was hilarious!!
lol
Not fun fact: the gulf War patriots actually didn't kill many scuds, and it's actually debated if a single Iraqi scud was ever actually defeated by a patriot. This is generally attributed to patriots being proximity fused as they initially developed for anti-aircraft roles, and the dramatically lower effectiveness proximity fused interceptor missiles have against terminal missiles as opposed to hit-to-kill interceptors. To this day the efficacy of the Patriot systems on ballistic missiles remains controversial, even with the newest iterations in service.
We have THAAD
@@blainesitter9110 That has absolutely nothing to do with his comment.
Oh there very effective by the fact that a memoir of a weasel pilots they were initially skeptical of manufacturer claims of the patriots until the first couple of engagement in which the patriot intercepted the first couple of scud aimed at their base by the latter part of ODS they they basically did not even bother to react to the missile siren.
I am so glad you did a Video on these Cap, My GR mission I completed for us has these HighDigitSams protecting the chemical weapons bunker that needs destroying. You can emphasize how important team work will be to destroy these things. It has been sent to Tux last week for testing then going to Bendy. If all goes well, we should be flying it end of this month to beginning of next
thxxx
Absolutely LOVE High Digit SAMS Mod.. It is a MUST have if you like building missions.
Great job with death island Kortana! I wonder how death island 2.0 with the SAM sites spread out and defense in depth would stand up to a tomahawk barrage?
1991- patriot didnt actually shoot the scuds down, they sprayed them with frag, but the warhead still landed intact.
thx
*mostly* intact. Iraq modified their SCUDs to extend their range, which caused the warhead to be unstable during reentry (not by design though) giving it a wonky unpredictable path, making it all the harder to hit and inflict fatal damage by the Patriots.
Also there was this not so fun software bug, which would show only if the Patriot site went on for more then several hours without a restart, causing the track radar to loose track, it took them a while to get a software update out.
There was a really big problem with Patriot vs Scud in that the Scud was a far bigger target than the warhead. Most of the Patriots "killed" already-dead boosters.
@@AKAtheA So Iraq ACCIDENTALLY Made dodge-capable warheads?
@@tetraxis3011 yes. It also caused 50+% of them to break up mid-flight and the rest to barely hit the cities.
Was it late model SA-11s or SA-17s that Finland received as debt payment in the mid 90s? They put them in storage over concerns of EW vulnerabilities and replaced them with NASAMS 2.
Can I just point out that developing an AI script to run SAM systems called SKYNET could be seen as tempting fate ?
Britains military satellites are part of a series called ‘SKYNET’ I think they are on SKYNET 6 at this point
Nice Livery on the Naval Hornets for the SLAM-ER attack.
Its good when Cap dies early in these missions because then we get good cinematics for the rest of the mission instead of just the same view from his cockpit for the whole mission.
lol yes everyone says this... bad for me :(
@@grimreapers yep, in the interests of higher video viewership you'll have to take one for the team in future videos :)
Or just add more B roll footage.
Since you can shoot missiles with missiles (Aim 9s), try 3-4 Hornets packed with Sidewinders and (try to) shoot a corridor to the baddies with a single bomb?
Can I just point out, 11:50 ish Saddam using the SCUD's wasn't meant as a strike weapon. It was ACTUALLY meant to aggravate the Israeli's into joining the Gulf War. Syria was allied with NATO back then. And Saddam knew if he could provoke Israel into joining the war against him, Syria having the greater numbers would never work along side the Israeli Armed Forces. Thus severely weakening NATO forces.
@Drew Smith When you think of it, it was a good plan, in theory.
thx
@@nevermindmyname9153 It wasn't far off working either. Patriot wasn't particularly successful as a SAM when it came to actually shooting down Scuds, but from a political and strategic point of view it did its job by persuading Israel that it was sufficiently well protected that it could stay out of the war.
@@trolleriffic True... As stated in the video, although the missiles were intercepted the fragments still had kinetic energy.
As you've learned from attacking the carriers: saturation is the key.
The SCUDs are thrust vectored. Unlike how most conventional rocket engines "gimbal" (the engine bell (the cup looking thing) points in a direction), the SCUDs use the fins that are in that exhaust to direct the thrust.
thx
This was great! Definitely a teaching moment for sure! Wonder what the cost of the defense verses the attackers cost in currency? Also for FYI soviet SCUDs (being an area weapon) would have been use in larger numbers against a target. Like 30+. This was an interest excise on a flat AO with no Masking available. It would be interesting to see the excise in DCS with terrain and masking. Where weapon toss tactics are required.
The SCUD is indeed thrust vectored. Those gray vanes in the exhaust are thrust vectoring vanes. It’s actually the same basic system as was used by the V2
Cap SCUDS are thrust vectored, similar to the old V2's were. Glad you guys did some promotion to the skynet script & high digit sams.
thx
What a great entertaining, and relaxing video. Fantastic GR! 🇨🇦 Veteran, 🥳 happy New Year
IIRC a modern HARM will use the EM data to continuously compute & revise the emitters GPS coordinates and will revert to that location if it loses lock on the emitter. So they'll probably get pretty close to the radar if it remains stationary.
Edit: the -E has the ability to remember where an emitter was if it shuts down AND a millimeter-band radar to look for targets. Nasty!
I wonder how it would do against AESA LPI radar that's almost impossible to pinpoint.
@@trolleriffic Its debatable whether or not any currently in service ground based surveillance radars are LPI. IIRC All FCR radars used by the S-300/S-400 family are PESA. The NEBO-M is an AESA radar but very low frequency, likely with quite large side-lobes.
In Israel, at the war in 1991, the Patriot missiles must of the time miss the Iraqi scuds and even hit City one time.
My dad lived near one of the American sites in Central Israel.
I believe it's because of the Patriot missile design for aircraft and not to shot down ballistic missiles.
You can see something similar to that today when some incidents which Syrian S200 missiles launched towards Israel, and when our air defense tried to intercept them-must of the time they failed.
Nice one, thanks Cortana.
Hey Cap, I've a video suggestion.
Did you ever play the game "Sharks and Minnows" on the playground as a kid? Why don't you do the same with a Skynet IADS? Put, say, a 30 mile radius around the IADS, throw all of GR into it, and see who's the last man/woman standing. No trying to kill the SAMs, infinite ammo for the SAMs, and exploding heads if you go outside the zone. As GR members are eliminated, they can respawn as either AAA or SHORAD SAMs.
Interesting, thx
Scud missiles are thrust vectored, though not with a gimballed engine but with fins sitting in the fixed engine nozzle.
Question.. could you do a "coffee campaign" style setup making use of this system? Perhaps even a new campaign idea with similar rules in that you get limited number of air frames and you have to work out the missions yourselves.
hmmmm that's a MAYBE. the mods involved to get this to work often aren't practical for MAS multiplayer but will investigate.
You could recreate the 1973 Arab Israeli war where Egypt had new Soviet kit (Kubs and ZSU-23-4S). Kubs forced Israeli jets to fly close to the deck and right into the ZSU-23-4s. Seems like all the kit required for that is in game. Other than the IADS in North Viet Nam near Hanoi and Haiphong, Egyptian IADS is probably the only other real world example of a large scale and effective use of a IADS.
Here's a valued viewer request. Put the names of all the airfields in DCS into a hat (or a random number generator) and pick one at random. The airbase which is chosen gets this SAM network installed there, with intelligent design choices by Evil SAMmaster Kortana. Then The Reapers must attack it, using the terrain to their advantage.
The island is ideal circumstances for big SAMs. Genghis Khan himself would struggle to find a parcel of land flat enough that there wouldn't be at least some kind of cover. This video was the science. Now let's make it THE GAMES.
will pass on to K
My wife and I only watch the Cortana episodes. But in fairness, if there were episodes without Cap then we'd probably only watch the ones with both of you guys.
Absolutely brill, thank you.
Interesting. On the TALD launch, yes, the missiles killed 4 TALDs, but a second launch never happened to splash the other 4. Was that a Skynet thing, were the SAM sites smart enough to not shoot at the TALDs but the missiles themselves weren't? What went on there?
What about bombardment via naval guns? Could we not get some ships close enough to shell the baddies? Or is the scenario that this is a pop up meeting of the Legion of Doom and there’s no time to get ships close before they leave?
I wonder if the ship shells could be shot down??
@@grimreapers I know that Counter Rocket Artillery And Mortar (C-RAM) is a thing... but there's a world of difference between a small man portable mortars shells and 18 inch naval shells. Surely there's a point where the shell itself could shrug off most C-RAM? I have learned so much watching you guys.
@@grimreapers Sea Wolf was able to shoot down 4.5 inch naval gun shells and that was 40 years ago.
@@goodluckfox The biggest shells in western naval service are just 5" these days (I think), and the heavy 16" ones that the Iowa class used would take a lot to shoot them down but those guns had very short ranges compared to modern missiles.
It'll be interesting to try this again once the Eurofighter Typhoon comes out
agree
I think there would be Chemtrail ops deploying metallic dust chems some hours ahead
dragged by the wind so that it would jam up their radar screens with a big apple pie sauce
rending the SAM's unable to lock.
Only IR SAM systems like the Chineese one would work.
The F-18's would then have to CBU the place, using Maverics too...
Like the Brush tool in paint programs as a line, forward displaying the spread path,
simulating a chemtrailing operatons hours ago....
For the Editor:
Would be an interresting feature added to have for the mission editor,
able to place radar fog dust zones that moves with the wind.
All the world baddies might be there but Klaus is on the beach.
I've seen the Intel photos.
@ 8:02 are those sam's posted on the runway?
Fun video! Lethal but fun to watch.
26:18 sneaky addition by Kortana
IRL SAMs have a very low percentage kill against cruise missiles. They have a very low RCS and are very tough to detect if the mission route is planned well. The overwhelming majority of the cruise missiles fired by the USN and USAF have never even been engaged by enemy SAM systems.
Well that experience was based on the gulf War and the Iraqi invasion. With today's technology it shouldn't be a problem I think.
In the main they were engaging poor quality IADS that was badly run and not well integrated with other parts of the military such as utilising aircraft to provide additional cover as well as a look down/shoot down capability against targets like cruise missiles.
@@Brokkolesz There's contradicting claims regarding how many Tomahawks were intercepted in the 2018 strike on Syria but none of the 19 JASSM fired got shot at.
It can be hard to detect them since they fly close to the Earth, but these bad guys are placed on an island.
So, I just had a thought. Why don't we make stealth decoys similar to TALD? Use luneburg reflectors (like what are used on the F-35 in civilian airspace) to produce a radar return for the missile and retract them right after the missile launches. That way the missile looses track, possibly self destructs and frags the launcher, and one decoy can take out multiple missiles.
Maybe because you don't want stealth tech to fall down in enemy territory?
@@torarne7796 Put a few pounds of C4 in it, then.
@@ryanpayne7707 If you bring explosives, you might as well have the decoy home in on the SAM radar. I think we just invented suicide drones, oh wait, they already exist...
@@torarne7796 Except then you'd need to place a seeker head and some sort of control system on it. I'm just thinking a simple 5lbs of C4 and a barometric fuse.
They most likely have a pre-programmed abort sequence that makes sure the missile flies away from the launcher before self terminating.
Tell us Kortana's real-world story. She sounds like a real pro.
I prefer to imagine K is military test pilot, kicked out of the force for being too maverick... now she needs to get her flying kicks in DCS.
@@grimreapers Nope, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
@@grimreapers I´m wondering if have a set of prepared answers if someone asks personal things? If yes I could maybe add one: Q: Whats her phone-number A: 1688, now run!
Great vid cap, wanted to ask if a pilot could notch this much and this long in real life because wouldn’t that much g force in a short period of time be too much for the body.
Also i think you guys should try this with some the stealth aircraft mods ie; F-22 F-117 B-2 etc. plus is there an S-400 mod that could work with this?
What is the fastest rocket-powered or engine-powered thing in DCS?
Good question. errrm Guessing PL-15 which does something like mach 8-9 on a loft shot. Prob not realistic.
Math, science, unlimited defense budgets, unlimited testing "faces" and relentless "hors d'oeuvres" and somehow my ADD/ADHD did not require any Adderall!
Simply because it was pure ENTERTAINMENT!!!!
Goodness I love watching Team GR and maybe one day, when I grow up, I can come fly with the Elite....
Elite professionals and comedic relief!
:) :)
“Kortana went away, I’m happy with that result…” Hahahahahahahaha
Well this is much better IADS test than first test. BUT still missing AWACS, QRF aircraft, patrolling naval AD assets and better IADS asset deployment i.e. IADS is designed for defense in depth
FYI.. in something like this you would run wo ecm until fired upon by the sams or really even another fighter in a long range engagement.. you switch the ecm on right before notching.. this makes the notch much more effective.. especially against big fast movers who lack agility..
You’re also too low.. wo being able to drop down and gain speed notching is pretty ineffective when you don’t have terrain to hide behind
you can use sensor select down twice to swap SA and HSI. It's rather handy.
rgr always forget.
WELL DONE PLAYING AWAY FROM A HOME BASE , ADD MORE GOOD FRIDAY NIGHT .
What if a harrier hovered and approached at very slowly? Would that mess with the doppler radars?
I think that would actually work.
Can you use a B2 as a proxy for like 20 other aircraft
@GrimReaper I'm trying to make a simulation on DCS about SAM patriot to be able to intercept the SCUD B Missile. but why does the Patriot always fail to intercept it?missiles launched too late to intercept it?
that HAARM pun was awesome
Going by conflicts over the last 30 years or so, I think a 'real life' attack would be saturation tomahawk, say 2 Tico's, 4 Arleigh Burke and a couple of subs all launching together? I'm not sure the DCS ships will salvo enough land attack cruise though? Maybe simulated with a 30-40 ship B-52 tomahawk launch?
Large numbers of air launched JASSM/JASSM-ER would be the best bet, similar to what occured in Syria in the last few years. The JASSM's are not only very low altitude flying but also rather stealthy.
Can these SAMS be done solo? Want to practice SEAD and DEAD in sp
From Canada here... nice to see rcaf liveries!
Yep! I wanted something different from the default USN ones :)
what's "on the deck" ? is it the burn time ? (like the missile will go x miles before running out of fuel)
Sea level. Higher air pressure equals less range.
Assumption that S-300V4 does not perform well against planes would turn Deadly.
The HARM will fall “harmlessly” are we really going to just gloss over that ?? [9:52]
Sounds like part 3 is going to be a funday sunday challenge
oooOOOO
I notice you guys don't use any EW aircraft, Like the EA 18 Growler... Are they not available? ( I don't play DCS)
The type of EW that they use is not modelled in game, so they would just be expensive paperweights in game :(
Does Anti Ballistic Missile translate to Anti Blackbird? (Apologies if you've already tried them, so many letters/numbers to try and remember)
yes, covered earlier. Blackbird gets vaporised :(
I’d like to see a compilation of all the times when a bog died very hard
Edit: Ultimate Grim Reapers challenge: how many bogs can you kill in an hour any plane any missile no mods
^^^ my dream
Now let's see if a SR71 can do a proper recon of the island, both overflight and a side looking realistic flight
eek
A great video would be you guys talking about yourselves by way of introduction for a couple of minutes each. You all seem to have a great deal of know how, would be interesting to hear how you each got it by way or service or SIM practice 👍🏼
Me: Kortana sounds so sweet and innocent...
Also Kortana: Check out my island of death..!!!!
Also how do you know that wasn't the real Jesus and his love of cows.....??
The innocent appearance is a ploy to mask her desire to take over the world
@@siri9682 shhhh. You weren't supposed to tell anyone, lol
Kortana is not innocent. I learnt this early on. No idea why Jesus love scows so much.
Will IADSS fail under a very short range massive SLCM,, ie. Tomahawk attack?
How would stealth work against this? Maybe try the F-117, Su-57, F-22A, etc?
Stealth isn't modelled well enough in DCS at the moment to make it worthwhile. You could do it but it wouldn't tell you anything useful.
There is a MOD in the DCS download area which makes SCUD missiles accurate enough to hit points instead of cities, and then, it can strike on carrier group too
thxx
Should’ll labelled this ‘Simba bankrupts the Russian Military in One Mission!’ Awesome skills! Beat 20+ SAMs. 😀
I may have missed the explanation but why do some of the SAMs explode on their own when they're tracking?
Missiles are programed to explode if they miss their target so if they loss track of a target or can't physically manouver to hit them then they will self-destruct to avoid damaging an unintended target. So that is what you are seeing in the game
@@Khornepop69 Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
For sure, any time!
they get close enuff to see my face and just blow themselves up. :)
I guess the effectiveness of these modern SAMs is the reason why stealth and hypersonics have become so important.
So try attacking these with f35s. Or perhaps Russia's new hypersonic missile of you have them.
Too bad the splash range of shrapnel after killing a high-velocity missile doesn't seem to be modeled. If it detonates on it's own it has splash damage, bit if you kill it it just disappears.
The missile kill thing is definitely an issue with ASMs like the P-700 (Shipwreck) which had a penetrating warhead that was in itself effectively quite heavily armoured. Hitting the missile at close range with a CIWS wouldn't stop what's left of it ploughing through the side of the ship and causing massive damage.
Since there was AAA I reckon you guys get to try again but with no altitude limit guys
agree
I'd actually love to see this same scenario, but with a couple team members in f-22's "wild-weaseling" and a third team member trying to stick damage in something closer to an f-35
Cortana 👍👍👍 I wanna see you kick some dudes ass in a dogfight, you have a channel? Ps Grim Reapers you bring happiness and laughs (I love flight sims (solo flight, Atari 800, 1982) and love watching RC get blown up, repeatedly. I love you guys.
Lol, well I do have a channel, though I don't typically do formal 1v1 dogfights outside of a practice setting.
I wonder if they have in real smaller Radar emission mocking emitters,
which emitt the same signal, as sort of decoy beams...
Please add Ghandi II to the list of baddies. Slimeballs!
How do I get the maple leaf on my plane like Kortana has?
Just a normal livery in base game.
Cap, you mentioned you’ve been at it for half a decade or so, have you got an estimate of how many hours of flight time that represents? This is to arm my patience… 😅
I think I started 6 years ago. So time spent on GR would be 300 days per years, that's 3000 hours per year, that's 18000 hours. Assuming about 20% of that is flight time = 3600 Virtual flight hours over 6 years and so far 0.1 hours of real life flight time :)
Can any ship launched weapons intercept these SAMs, as an example can a RIM shoot down a Gladiator? Just thinking if a single Aegis ship could assist the attacking aircraft.
Interseting...
I would have thought it was possible, but in reality the ships would be staying well away because going close to land is hazardous since it's so easy to hide missiles or have torpedoes and minefields waiting for you.
@@trolleriffic In reality? What part of this scenario bares any relation to reality ha ha ha
CBU 5000 SCUD ?
Is there a Scud that would dispense above thousands of things like the CBU 99?
Raining down on an area of about 5 KM.
That could not be prevented by SAM's and AAA....
Would be interesting if a cyber programmer could edit the Scuds file
adding the CBU program with 5000 / 8000 / 20000 anti tank droplets
released in a about 20000ft.The scuds flight path had to be further stretched out,
then parabolicly falling straight onto the site.
Yku should mimick Rust,s landing on red square.
Hi reapers could you test if s300 can hit patriots missile or patriot can hit s300 missile.
Interesting...
does it work if you block the SAM radar signal by positioning yourself so that the city with tall buildings is between you and the SAM?
that LOS is modelled correct.
great attempt at a IADS but it still lacks something, for one is that DCS lacks stand alone jammers and decoys for land based SAMs (which are like your jammer pods, flares and chaff) which adds a new complexities. Right now in the game if you can fire off a HARM at one of them they are dead if they can't shoot it down.
Game limitations aside, this is something that should be noted.
Yeah, DCS is currently very limited in this area. Also, building a complete IADS would have violated the rules of the challenge.
In one of your previous vids, you said you don’t get launch warnings against S-300 or new line…well I worked on AH-1W’s, Russia gave Syria 300’s they tried using them against our AH-1W’ and UH-1N’s, when operating near the border, in Iraq, 08. They missed our birds, due to flares, and other countermeasures, and MWR, so yes, we know when Sams are targeting/shot and other guidance systems, I know, I worked on those systems as avionics, we worked on every electrical/electronic system and part on those…and no I won’t say how they do it, but rest assured, US birds know when someone is searching, tracking, locked, have fired. And we have great countermeasures, so chances are great the bird is getting home, as long as the pilots reacts fast and well. They couldn’t even knock down helos, in terrain that favored the Sam sites, yes we were still in Iraq, they were shooting from Syria, we heard our comms blowing up with targeting and lock, firing calls from the pilots, the sams shooting at them, all missed, no damage to our flight of two, one cobra, one Huey. They wanted to fire back, we’re denied permission. Everyone truly underestimates US technology, except those who have faced it, of they are lucky enough to survive and overstates soviet equipment, yes I still call them that, as they still act like the soviets, only the name has changed, not actions and beliefs. Or tactics, or technology for the most part. Their newest missile in 08 couldn’t even shoot down helicopters originally designed and fielded in the early to late 60’s, sore they’ve been vastly upgraded, but still just helos, unarmored at that, and yes, the squadron I was part of, half of our birds flew and fought in Vietnam, and upgraded since, the other half, made right after. As at first, they were UH-1’s, the the. AH-1 came about, because us US marines turned UH’s into gunships, the. The army learned from us, then the government was like wow, these are great and work, let’s make some dedicated gunships, that’s how it went down. So the first purpose built gunship was born. Then we spilt our birds, along with the other squadron, and got AH-1’s, and they stood up other squadrons with the extra UH and AH
Wouldn't concussion and airborne debris from the SLAMs have interfered with surviving SAM systems?
Interesting Q. no idea.
They quickly lose speed, so Doppler radars easily separate them
@@Useless_One Even in very near field?
@@rnash999if debris hit sams? Ofc. If there more than 1km to debris it's still possible to have some shadowing effect, but, it's incomparable to proper decoys, that can significantly block line of sight