@@flipstylee270 its still there? i remember our original motto was gonna be "hit switches, bitches!" , that didnt fly tho. I think i was in ait class 08-01 or something like that. way back in the dark ages is chris haag or jeff wolff still working at the schoolhouse?
I operated the MIM-104 PATRIOT during Operation Desert Storm as aTCO, somewhere near the Saudi / Iraqi border. There was a radar fault that we were struggling to correct during a SCUD attack and my warrant officer walked into the Radar unit and found the faulty cable that was giving us a 11-RTG failure, therefore preventing the radar from radiating and tracking. He held that cable in place while we turned on the radar and engaged the incoming SCUDS. We awarded him the Army Bronze Star for his bravery and for putting his health at risk. He probably never fathered any children after that!
I was Zulu Foxtrot during the Gulf War aboard Mobile Bay when I reported SCUD launches to Zulu Whisky made by our SPY-1 radar. I then broke to the 2 PATRIOT batteries in my Link-11/16 data link who confirmed our SPY tracks and engaged. I DESPERATELY WISH TO KNOW WHAT THEIR CALLSIGNS WERE! Both were on the Saudi coast.
Not gonna lie, as a current master gunner with 10 years of experience I came into this skeptical. Really good job though, I could tell your expert was skirting around what he was allowed to tell you and he did a good job keeping it public friendly. It flies it dies!
@@UltimaPnemo good to hear. the badge looks cool, but id hate for it to come at the cost of the buckle! from one PMG to another, if you contact Cap on the grim reaper website or discord, he can send you a class I made on "Ducting" while I was in Kuwait with 4-5 AMD. Its all open source stuff, but helpful if you ever go to SWA. We were told values to input for refraction and how to watch out for ducting, but no one explained what that really was and why we needed to care, so I made a TacSem on it. You can contact me per email, and ill try to fill in any blanks (what I can remember from the 10 years since I made it!)
@@UltimaPnemo also, can you do me a solid favor, and point me to an unclass reference on procedure to slew radar to STL (if it is unclass). id really like to clarify why the radar would never slew during an air battle, but dont know if theres a publicly available reference for it
Same, but less "what I did" and more "what I was peripherally involved with" having been stuck in front of a computer at TOC during my time in Patriot Land.
@@bw33511 Sorry for that! MOPP4 sucked in the ECS, but i cant imagine doing reload in it..however, having to evaluate a number of reloads, you can really see the difference between a good crew aaannnndd a crew of loosely tethered "individuals"..but from a TCA point of view a sharp hot crew really made our lives easier. I remember breathing a sigh of relief when hearing certain crews on the other end of the radio!
The shot of the Ticongeroga launching Tomahawks brings another question to mind: are some of the newer missiles that work with the AEGIS system modeled in DCS? SM-2, SM-3, SM-6, etc.
Sweden has bought the Block 3+ variant which was an update thats just a few years old. It replaced most of the old 70s and 80s hardware that was still around like the screens. The next update in the works will get a completely new AESA radar. I know Sweden intends to pair the system with an AESA search radar letting the Patriot radar stay hidden and concentrate on fire control. There is also a nationwide air defence picture shared with the air force which is supposed to tell who is friendly and not
I worked on Aegis for our foreign military sales branch long ago and have experience on all Aegis baselines through 9 as well. Before that I was a Naval Tactical Data Sustem (NTDS) guy when it was all mainframe. In my experience with other naval combat systems, I wouldn’t leave the pier without Aegis.
As an Aegis guy, I share the same sentiments as your Patriot SME. My personal experience with the Patriot was during Gulf War I while I was Force Track Coordinator (FTC) aboard Mobile Bay with two Patriot batteries in Saudi Arabia in the datalink as callsign ZF. In Feb 1991 I reported two SCUD detections from the ships Spy-1 to ZW on AAWC&R and broke to two Patriot batteries. One of them (not sure of callsign s- but possibly “Mammal” ) responded “Valid skin. Engaging. Out.” That confirmed the Naval capability of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System we have today. I would really like to find those Patriot guys and thank them! Here for Aegis stuff if needed.
It was probably two batteries from 2-7 ADA from the 11th ADA EAC Brigade, likely Bravo and Echo batteries. As a former TCO during Operation Desert Storm, we frequently received data links from the TICOs in the gulf which provided coverage to our flanks. From time to time, we'd see tracks fed to us from Aegis that had a designator that told us the aircraft were F117 stealth aircraft. Back then, PATRIOT used PADIL data format and I think Navy was on TADIL-J, so we had to use a translator between the two systems, and that created some latency in sharing track info. BTW, thank yo for your service
@@oscartorres628 thanks. I really wish I could remember the two call signs but only recall they were both along the Saudi coast and they evidently had a lock by my report. Also recall the symbology issues from USN refusal to adopt NATO 2525b standards…Exciting times!
This was really really cool!!! I really enjoyed listening to this for a hour. It’s too bad there’s dislikes already. :( Thanks to Nick for sharing his knowledge. Also the missile knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t and because it knows where it isn’t it knows where it is.
That's pretty neat to see the TVM system explained outside of my attempts to from someone who ran it. IRT the SM-3, that's similar to the PAC-3 in that it's what I would call a "kinetic kill" in which it punches through the target. AEGIS has to be modified in order to the the math required and the SM-3 had to be rushed to make it for the mission. It was used to shoot down a US spy sat. It was newly launched and there were concerns about it's full tank of frozen hydrazine (due to lack of control, they couldn't regulate temps) surviving the fall and landing in a populated area. So they targeted the tank in particular in order to shatter the frozen fuel. They managed to successfully hit that target. I could go into more detail about why it's called "Standard Missile" here if you want, I was thinking about saving that for the CG video though.
the ICC model looks like a generic FMTV-compatible equipment shelter. My section (electronic warfare maintenance) had one of those for use as a field office.
@30:00 where it says about the radar having more lines out to it, is that simply parallel feeds of the same type, or are they different types of power, ie AC supplies on one cable, and DC on another?
I was in a Patriot missile battery and Hawk missile battery. I started in the Army as a Hawk missle radar repairman. The generator can power 3 city blocks and there can be 2 or 3 generators on the vehicles. I was also a Stinger/Avenger crewman. Your expert didn't explain alot of information about how tactics about the Patriots are linked together. We would observe numerous firings at Ft. Bliss and White Sands Missile Range. We would often remote the launchers. I've probably seen about 100 missle firings. They would often use RQF-4 drones for target for both the Hawk and Patriots. Also, there are engagement parameters for launching missiles including corridors for aircraft that have lost Mode 2/3cand 4 IFF codes.
I’m pretty sure it’s because most of our tactics are classified. I’ve never seen an integrated hawk patriot fire. But I know the guys in 5-7 ADA recently integrated avenger and patriot during NAMFI 2018
Things have changed a lot since HAWK days. While i was at bliss, HAWK was really only being used by foreign nationals. I was working maintenance for 6th bde when bradley linebackers went away. the stinger trucks we had in germany (non-avenger, the ones with a couple missile cases on the back) were gone as far as i know by the time i left the army. when 3-4 adar received patriot, there was virtually no integration between the avenger guys and the patriot units. there was a bit of animosity when the unit had to leave the 82nd, but patriot is a corps asset, not a division one. After i left the army, i see most of the patriot units are located on their own "mini-posts" just outside of the regular base. hell, even the entire center of the air defense universe left bliss for ft sill....what im saying is much has changed since your experiences, a lot changed over my tenure, and i can only assume even more changed since then. Additionally, the hardest part of putting together all this info is the research. If there was something i knew, but couldnt find a reference in an open source, i had to assume it shouldnt be gone into detail. For that reason, i chose to leave a lot out, even things that seemed somewhat minor
@@bohica76 Our unit went from HAWK to Patriot. We had 3rd Gen. HAWK and the Marines still had the 4th Gen. Improved HAWK. Our unit's HAWK system was sold to Korea before we transitioned to Patriot. We had a couple of months without any system. But integrated HAWK/Patriot firings were common at WSMR. Since I was active duty in the NM Army Guard, the ADA BGDE units still had Chaparral missiles, Roland missiles, remnants of VADS, and had just gotten rid of the M-42 Dusters which the Koreans were using. Basically, at Ft. Bliss/White Sands you could watch the integrated ADA tactics and could observe everything working together during firings. The collapse of the Soviet Union basically made most of the air threats and the need for integrated ADA obsolete. I watched the first operation test firings of the Linebacker Bradleys. I was in one of the first Stinger sections to transition from 16 Sierra to 14 Mike Avenger. We also got to work on THAAD development/testing. Initially, THAAD was at risk of being canceled in the early 90'S due to numerous failures. Out of seven, or so, test firings I observed, THAAD was only able to hit 3 times. The joke was "It's only just rocket science.."
@@TB0321 yea, you go way back- i had a platoon sergeant in Germany who had been a chaparral crew member. Saw a whole bunch of cases of roland missiles stockpiled in a hangar @ Baghdad airport. In todays climate, i would say linebacker is really the only ground based role for stinger thats still relevant. I have yet to see an avenger mounted on an uparmored hummwv , and thats one of the shortcomings that killed SLAMRAAM...and a dismounted stinger team today? not likely! Perhaps C-RAM is the only segment of SHORAD thats of any relevance today. Regarding airspace integration, it was very much a part of things when i left 10 years ago with the individual line battery having even less authority than ever, but having a BCP onsite (partially spurred into existance to mitigate some of the mishaps in 2003- era), each firing battery has much more situational awareness than it ever did. Patriot was a very different beast when i left than when i started, between changes in equipment and TTPs. Im sure its continued to evolve to the point of what i remember may be partially obsolete. It sounds like the IADS you describe was an integration of shorad systems with patriot being the pinnacle. When i left, IADS was still very much a thing with HIMAD Patriot being considered lower tier, virtually the bottom rung of a larger system THAAD had a lot of growing pains, and i dont think they ever stood up a full battalion until after i left in 2011. I remember seeing a THAAD radar completely stripped to the bone at bliss over by the airfield. Every so often, thered be a call for volunteers to stand up a new thaad unit, but nothing would ever come of it
sorry to make you wait on the answer. often the batteries arent placed far enough apart for them to be necessary. part of unit deployment planning is generating a comms plan. Additionally, CRGs have to be co-located on other units sites (youre not going to simply place an amg,crg& generator out in middle of no where on their own). additionally, in more permanent emplacements, other forms of communication may be used
Jackson- how is it you want to move them around? Patriot is only mobile when jumping sites (which is a several hour process) . If you could be more clear on how youre trying to move them, i could shed some light on it
@@jacksonlam2877 unfortunately, not until ED models them on road March configuration ( only emplaced configuration is modelled, and even that has issues: ICC is wrong, epp has the wrong prime mover, AMG rear upper antenna is on backwards). It would be nice to model the firing units as a convoy - trust me, one battery makes for a long string of vehicles - and once they arrive on their new site, it takes about an hour from first truck rolling in till the system comes up as operational. There's a lot of animations ED would have to implement to make that happen
yes, you have to use a leap frog tactic where you need more than one PATRIOT battery to provide air defense while the other PATRIOT battery "jumps" to its new location. A well trained crew can "road-march" a unit in 20-30 minutes and "emplace" the unit once it arrives at its new location in 20 minutes to reach "minimum-engagement" capability
Point of concern, saying that we never turn these radars on on a specific day seems like intel that could be used against us. I don't really know, just a civilian, but .... I'd double check if that bit needs edited out.
it is a valid concern, and i was careful to not divulge anything that i felt was sensitive, there are a few notes to this comment in particular: the unit i was referring to- in germany(this was verifiable thru google maps for quite some time, so this is not new info)- left the area years ago and this referred to times when we were in garrison running the system in the motor pool. thats a completely different environment from a deployment situation- there is downtime then, but thats scheduled and downtold from higher levels. Running the system in the motorpool can be for training purposes or for maintenance& is commonplace throughout patriot units force-wide
Dialectic it’s not like every battery in the world shuts down at 11:59 Thursday night. Just that one specific unit in a low threat area possibly just a training unit. Like Nick said, they’re manned 24/7 and part of a much larger system in actual application.
@@ROTNReaper that’s why it defended the Saudi oil plants so well. It must also be why after the plants were attacked the Saudis signed a deal with Russia and the patriots were removed from Saudi Arabia.
perhaps, but not really. when the system is evaluating tracks its on a points based system depending on behaviors&adherence to air space classifications (imagine an air traffic controller, without the ability to control, but with a trigger). A fighter aircraft can do the job with the addition of being able to get a visual ID. Other countries using patriot may be willing to engage aircraft- i can only speak for the US at the time i left. Besides, an AMRAAM isnt much cheaper, especially when cost per flight hour of the aircraft is figured in
A very impressive system...too bad SO many people think it couldn't stop a fly(as far as the PAC-3 version is concerned)...From what I'm reading,systems like Patriot would be wholly ineffective against attacks from adversaries like North Korea.. Shit.
It's a pretty big assumption that NK would have ICBMs capable of hitting mainland US, or even Japan with high enough accuracy. And even if they would interrupting ICBM is borderline impossible even with system like S-500 which is purpose built anti ICBM
@@TheGranicd well be because the radar was facing yeman not irag/iran. saudi arabia intercept more than 100 or 200 i forget the number ballistic missile launched from houthies usually scud and iranian modified scud
thanx cap, it was fun chatting with you guys!
You rock Nick!
Just saw your class placard for the course Class 001-11 at the school house :)
@@flipstylee270 its still there? i remember our original motto was gonna be "hit switches, bitches!" , that didnt fly tho. I think i was in ait class 08-01 or something like that. way back in the dark ages
is chris haag or jeff wolff still working at the schoolhouse?
@Nick Greenaway Mr Haag is now up at 30th working beside the BDE Commander
I operated the MIM-104 PATRIOT during Operation Desert Storm as aTCO, somewhere near the Saudi / Iraqi border. There was a radar fault that we were struggling to correct during a SCUD attack and my warrant officer walked into the Radar unit and found the faulty cable that was giving us a 11-RTG failure, therefore preventing the radar from radiating and tracking. He held that cable in place while we turned on the radar and engaged the incoming SCUDS. We awarded him the Army Bronze Star for his bravery and for putting his health at risk. He probably never fathered any children after that!
I was Zulu Foxtrot during the Gulf War aboard Mobile Bay when I reported SCUD launches to Zulu Whisky made by our SPY-1 radar. I then broke to the 2 PATRIOT batteries in my Link-11/16 data link who confirmed our SPY tracks and engaged. I DESPERATELY WISH TO KNOW WHAT THEIR CALLSIGNS WERE! Both were on the Saudi coast.
Not gonna lie, as a current master gunner with 10 years of experience I came into this skeptical. Really good job though, I could tell your expert was skirting around what he was allowed to tell you and he did a good job keeping it public friendly. It flies it dies!
thx
thanx! just a side note: i saw theres a generic "master gunner " badge these days. do PMGs still have the buckle, or did ya'll have to give that up?
Nick Greenaway we get both! So you still get your buckle when you graduate but you also put in a 4187 and you can get your badge orders as well
@@UltimaPnemo good to hear. the badge looks cool, but id hate for it to come at the cost of the buckle! from one PMG to another, if you contact Cap on the grim reaper website or discord, he can send you a class I made on "Ducting" while I was in Kuwait with 4-5 AMD. Its all open source stuff, but helpful if you ever go to SWA. We were told values to input for refraction and how to watch out for ducting, but no one explained what that really was and why we needed to care, so I made a TacSem on it. You can contact me per email, and ill try to fill in any blanks (what I can remember from the 10 years since I made it!)
@@UltimaPnemo also, can you do me a solid favor, and point me to an unclass reference on procedure to slew radar to STL (if it is unclass). id really like to clarify why the radar would never slew during an air battle, but dont know if theres a publicly available reference for it
Pretty cool seeing what I did in the Army being utilized in the game.
Same, but less "what I did" and more "what I was peripherally involved with" having been stuck in front of a computer at TOC during my time in Patriot Land.
@@Hardcover_Pilot I was a Launcher dawg, I did more missile reloads in mopp 4 than I care to remember. I did do a Live fire during roving sands in 95.
@@bw33511 Sorry for that! MOPP4 sucked in the ECS, but i cant imagine doing reload in it..however, having to evaluate a number of reloads, you can really see the difference between a good crew aaannnndd a crew of loosely tethered "individuals"..but from a TCA point of view a sharp hot crew really made our lives easier. I remember breathing a sigh of relief when hearing certain crews on the other end of the radio!
This was a very interesting episode, thanks to everyone involved for putting this together.
pleasure
Excellent video, Cap. Many thanks for the expert knowledge, Nick 👍🏻🇬🇧
As another fellow PMG, this was a great interview. "Forbidden to fire up the Radar on friday" was my favorite line.
The shot of the Ticongeroga launching Tomahawks brings another question to mind: are some of the newer missiles that work with the AEGIS system modeled in DCS? SM-2, SM-3, SM-6, etc.
Sweden has bought the Block 3+ variant which was an update thats just a few years old.
It replaced most of the old 70s and 80s hardware that was still around like the screens.
The next update in the works will get a completely new AESA radar.
I know Sweden intends to pair the system with an AESA search radar letting the Patriot radar stay hidden and concentrate on fire control.
There is also a nationwide air defence picture shared with the air force which is supposed to tell who is friendly and not
I worked on Aegis for our foreign military sales branch long ago and have experience on all Aegis baselines through 9 as well. Before that I was a Naval Tactical Data Sustem (NTDS) guy when it was all mainframe.
In my experience with other naval combat systems, I wouldn’t leave the pier without Aegis.
Awesome video. Thanks to all, especially Nick. Very informative and entertaining.
As an Aegis guy, I share the same sentiments as your Patriot SME. My personal experience with the Patriot was during Gulf War I while I was Force Track Coordinator (FTC) aboard Mobile Bay with two Patriot batteries in Saudi Arabia in the datalink as callsign ZF.
In Feb 1991 I reported two SCUD detections from the ships Spy-1 to ZW on AAWC&R and broke to two Patriot batteries. One of them (not sure of callsign s- but possibly “Mammal” ) responded “Valid skin. Engaging. Out.”
That confirmed the Naval capability of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System we have today. I would really like to find those Patriot guys and thank them!
Here for Aegis stuff if needed.
It was probably two batteries from 2-7 ADA from the 11th ADA EAC Brigade, likely Bravo and Echo batteries. As a former TCO during Operation Desert Storm, we frequently received data links from the TICOs in the gulf which provided coverage to our flanks. From time to time, we'd see tracks fed to us from Aegis that had a designator that told us the aircraft were F117 stealth aircraft. Back then, PATRIOT used PADIL data format and I think Navy was on TADIL-J, so we had to use a translator between the two systems, and that created some latency in sharing track info. BTW, thank yo for your service
@@oscartorres628 thanks. I really wish I could remember the two call signs but only recall they were both along the Saudi coast and they evidently had a lock by my report. Also recall the symbology issues from USN refusal to adopt NATO 2525b standards…Exciting times!
This was really really cool!!! I really enjoyed listening to this for a hour. It’s too bad there’s dislikes already. :(
Thanks to Nick for sharing his knowledge.
Also the missile knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t and because it knows where it isn’t it knows where it is.
lols rgr
The details you are geting into in this vid are impressive Cap , very interesting info !
Extremely well done done and interesting. Many thanks to Nick. Does sound like JD does not like to be upstaged though ;)
17:33 Sprint Missle: ruclips.net/video/kvZGaMt7UgQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/QiyldgYKy_U/видео.html
thx
@@grimreapers You're welcome.
classic missile porn!
Whew! Class dismissed! Great info for setting up the Patriot system.
That's pretty neat to see the TVM system explained outside of my attempts to from someone who ran it.
IRT the SM-3, that's similar to the PAC-3 in that it's what I would call a "kinetic kill" in which it punches through the target. AEGIS has to be modified in order to the the math required and the SM-3 had to be rushed to make it for the mission. It was used to shoot down a US spy sat. It was newly launched and there were concerns about it's full tank of frozen hydrazine (due to lack of control, they couldn't regulate temps) surviving the fall and landing in a populated area. So they targeted the tank in particular in order to shatter the frozen fuel. They managed to successfully hit that target.
I could go into more detail about why it's called "Standard Missile" here if you want, I was thinking about saving that for the CG video though.
Thx Fire! Whats CG?
@@grimreapers In US Naval parlance, it stands for Guided Missile Cruiser. I.E. Ticonderoga class.
The Patriot was not shooting at you at all, it was the short range Avenger you put beside it :)
Jan Hlavatý especially when close in
Man this is great. Thanks for the wonderful content!
33:40
"ribbed for her pleasure" fantastic
the ICC model looks like a generic FMTV-compatible equipment shelter. My section (electronic warfare maintenance) had one of those for use as a field office.
@30:00 where it says about the radar having more lines out to it, is that simply parallel feeds of the same type, or are they different types of power, ie AC supplies on one cable, and DC on another?
Parallel feeds, radar needs enty of juice& epp puts out only 3 phase 400 hz ac
@@bohica76 Thanks.
Kudos for downloading SAM simulator. I hope you'll do some videos of it. (aslo - first?)
wilco Igor
Good show and very informative topic.
I was in a Patriot missile battery and Hawk missile battery. I started in the Army as a Hawk missle radar repairman. The generator can power 3 city blocks and there can be 2 or 3 generators on the vehicles. I was also a Stinger/Avenger crewman. Your expert didn't explain alot of information about how tactics about the Patriots are linked together. We would observe numerous firings at Ft. Bliss and White Sands Missile Range. We would often remote the launchers. I've probably seen about 100 missle firings. They would often use RQF-4 drones for target for both the Hawk and Patriots. Also, there are engagement parameters for launching missiles including corridors for aircraft that have lost Mode 2/3cand 4 IFF codes.
Would you be interested in doing an interview on the Hawk?
I’m pretty sure it’s because most of our tactics are classified. I’ve never seen an integrated hawk patriot fire. But I know the guys in 5-7 ADA recently integrated avenger and patriot during NAMFI 2018
Things have changed a lot since HAWK days. While i was at bliss, HAWK was really only being used by foreign nationals. I was working maintenance for 6th bde when bradley linebackers went away. the stinger trucks we had in germany (non-avenger, the ones with a couple missile cases on the back) were gone as far as i know by the time i left the army. when 3-4 adar received patriot, there was virtually no integration between the avenger guys and the patriot units. there was a bit of animosity when the unit had to leave the 82nd, but patriot is a corps asset, not a division one. After i left the army, i see most of the patriot units are located on their own "mini-posts" just outside of the regular base. hell, even the entire center of the air defense universe left bliss for ft sill....what im saying is much has changed since your experiences, a lot changed over my tenure, and i can only assume even more changed since then.
Additionally, the hardest part of putting together all this info is the research. If there was something i knew, but couldnt find a reference in an open source, i had to assume it shouldnt be gone into detail. For that reason, i chose to leave a lot out, even things that seemed somewhat minor
@@bohica76 Our unit went from HAWK to Patriot. We had 3rd Gen. HAWK and the Marines still had the 4th Gen. Improved HAWK. Our unit's HAWK system was sold to Korea before we transitioned to Patriot. We had a couple of months without any system. But integrated HAWK/Patriot firings were common at WSMR.
Since I was active duty in the NM Army Guard, the ADA BGDE units still had Chaparral missiles, Roland missiles, remnants of VADS, and had just gotten rid of the M-42 Dusters which the Koreans were using. Basically, at Ft. Bliss/White Sands you could watch the integrated ADA tactics and could observe everything working together during firings. The collapse of the Soviet Union basically made most of the air threats and the need for integrated ADA obsolete.
I watched the first operation test firings of the Linebacker Bradleys. I was in one of the first Stinger sections to transition from 16 Sierra to 14 Mike Avenger. We also got to work on THAAD development/testing. Initially, THAAD was at risk of being canceled in the early 90'S due to numerous failures. Out of seven, or so, test firings I observed, THAAD was only able to hit 3 times. The joke was "It's only just rocket science.."
@@TB0321 yea, you go way back- i had a platoon sergeant in Germany who had been a chaparral crew member. Saw a whole bunch of cases of roland missiles stockpiled in a hangar @ Baghdad airport. In todays climate, i would say linebacker is really the only ground based role for stinger thats still relevant. I have yet to see an avenger mounted on an uparmored hummwv , and thats one of the shortcomings that killed SLAMRAAM...and a dismounted stinger team today? not likely! Perhaps C-RAM is the only segment of SHORAD thats of any relevance today. Regarding airspace integration, it was very much a part of things when i left 10 years ago with the individual line battery having even less authority than ever, but having a BCP onsite (partially spurred into existance to mitigate some of the mishaps in 2003- era), each firing battery has much more situational awareness than it ever did. Patriot was a very different beast when i left than when i started, between changes in equipment and TTPs. Im sure its continued to evolve to the point of what i remember may be partially obsolete.
It sounds like the IADS you describe was an integration of shorad systems with patriot being the pinnacle. When i left, IADS was still very much a thing with HIMAD Patriot being considered lower tier, virtually the bottom rung of a larger system
THAAD had a lot of growing pains, and i dont think they ever stood up a full battalion until after i left in 2011. I remember seeing a THAAD radar completely stripped to the bone at bliss over by the airfield. Every so often, thered be a call for volunteers to stand up a new thaad unit, but nothing would ever come of it
ED need to sort out missile ranges, because comparing the encyclopedia to the weapon ranges in the mission editor are no where near.
I have a question. I've noticed that CRG are rarely used in real live patriot battery's why is that?.
sorry to make you wait on the answer. often the batteries arent placed far enough apart for them to be necessary. part of unit deployment planning is generating a comms plan. Additionally, CRGs have to be co-located on other units sites (youre not going to simply place an amg,crg& generator out in middle of no where on their own). additionally, in more permanent emplacements, other forms of communication may be used
Does anyone know if they are going to make more realistic explosions floor dcs
"Ribbed for your pleasure."🤣
Is there a way to move these units around in the mission?
Combined Arms I think allows you to move them
Jackson- how is it you want to move them around? Patriot is only mobile when jumping sites (which is a several hour process) . If you could be more clear on how youre trying to move them, i could shed some light on it
Nick Greenaway like moving them in the mission from one site to another?
@@jacksonlam2877 unfortunately, not until ED models them on road March configuration ( only emplaced configuration is modelled, and even that has issues: ICC is wrong, epp has the wrong prime mover, AMG rear upper antenna is on backwards). It would be nice to model the firing units as a convoy - trust me, one battery makes for a long string of vehicles - and once they arrive on their new site, it takes about an hour from first truck rolling in till the system comes up as operational. There's a lot of animations ED would have to implement to make that happen
yes, you have to use a leap frog tactic where you need more than one PATRIOT battery to provide air defense while the other PATRIOT battery "jumps" to its new location. A well trained crew can "road-march" a unit in 20-30 minutes and "emplace" the unit once it arrives at its new location in 20 minutes to reach "minimum-engagement" capability
Point of concern, saying that we never turn these radars on on a specific day seems like intel that could be used against us. I don't really know, just a civilian, but .... I'd double check if that bit needs edited out.
it is a valid concern, and i was careful to not divulge anything that i felt was sensitive, there are a few notes to this comment in particular: the unit i was referring to- in germany(this was verifiable thru google maps for quite some time, so this is not new info)- left the area years ago and this referred to times when we were in garrison running the system in the motor pool. thats a completely different environment from a deployment situation- there is downtime then, but thats scheduled and downtold from higher levels. Running the system in the motorpool can be for training purposes or for maintenance& is commonplace throughout patriot units force-wide
Dialectic it’s not like every battery in the world shuts down at 11:59 Thursday night. Just that one specific unit in a low threat area possibly just a training unit. Like Nick said, they’re manned 24/7 and part of a much larger system in actual application.
@@bohica76 thanks for the clarification
Patriot cannot hit a harm missile? What is the point of the system?
The DCS model is based on UNCLASS information. The Patriot system is extremely capable of defending against almost any airframe
@@ROTNReaper that’s why it defended the Saudi oil plants so well. It must also be why after the plants were attacked the Saudis signed a deal with Russia and the patriots were removed from Saudi Arabia.
@@TonyL-gw4qx lol where are you reading your news?
another reason to only engage only missile with patriot is each missile is 2-3 million per missile.
perhaps, but not really. when the system is evaluating tracks its on a points based system depending on behaviors&adherence to air space classifications (imagine an air traffic controller, without the ability to control, but with a trigger). A fighter aircraft can do the job with the addition of being able to get a visual ID. Other countries using patriot may be willing to engage aircraft- i can only speak for the US at the time i left. Besides, an AMRAAM isnt much cheaper, especially when cost per flight hour of the aircraft is figured in
nasa is very public with their info.
Dead sea scrolls ? rofl
A very impressive system...too bad SO many people think it couldn't stop a fly(as far as the PAC-3 version is concerned)...From what I'm reading,systems like Patriot would be wholly ineffective against attacks from adversaries like North Korea..
Shit.
It's a pretty big assumption that NK would have ICBMs capable of hitting mainland US, or even Japan with high enough accuracy. And even if they would interrupting ICBM is borderline impossible even with system like S-500 which is purpose built anti ICBM
Well it didn`t stop anything near Saudi refinery. In first gulf war it was found wanting. Spec on paper don`t mean anything if they dont work irl.
@@TheGranicd well be because the radar was facing yeman not irag/iran. saudi arabia intercept more than 100 or 200 i forget the number ballistic missile launched from houthies usually scud and iranian modified scud
DCS made it better than the real thing lol
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How about no
This game a very poor imitation of the real thing. Ask me how I know.
I tried to setup my own, but all the listed, did not show up in my list.
patriot did be destroyed by kinzhal 😈😈😈😈😈 in real life 😈😈😈 hohoho