Tower Controller reprimands pilots in Phoenix. Real ATC Audio
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2024
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My favorite part he kept being a dick with the next controller 😂
And that earned him a call for possible pilot deviation and the opportunity to meet the chief pilot.
Nah, the deviation was probably from approach. They were totally by the book with Tower, if a bit overwrought.
@@philmiller2465 I agree, but pretty sure the Tower controller enjoyed relaying the request from approach to the American pilot.
@@enriqueosuna The "I thinkkkk I know why youre frustrated..." was the best part of the video for sure.
@@enriqueosunaDo you believe this guy got to meet with the chief pilot? (I have it on good authority there are no snacks.)
Just about 4 hours ago I was landing at PHX and the approach controller cleared me to a lower altitude, assigned a heading, speed and cleared me for the visual for 26. I read it all back and forgot to say the runway assignment. She checked to verify my landing clearance. I apologized and read the clearance back properly. I didn't get all triggered and I didn't end up with a phone number. Hmm...
So you’re saying you’re a calm collected mature adult? ;)
@@SidewaysEightSix
I don't know if that is a true statement. When I cinch up my necktie and walk out my front door, I go into pilot mode. I get home, take the tie off and go back to being the goofball I've always been. Haha
Your mother is proud of you.
@@SpaceDad42
Yes, she is.
@@A.J.1656 So that was you unprofessionally reading back all of your approach clearances?
Pilot got all upset. But it was pilot error. The protocol is to read out callsign and repeat instructions.
The protocol on approach is to assign an approach and get a single read back containing the call sign, runway assigned, and specific approach in a single transmission. There is no such thing as progressive approach clearance.
@@BenjaminGattinobody is talking about a progressive approach clearance. Not sure what you mean.
Dunno man sounded like the pilot read back the callsign on the clearance then the controller didn’t acknowledge his call but rather read back the clearance again at which point the pilot was like wtf mate.
@@Lukeduke7773the last call the pilot did read back the callsign. The reason the controller repeated it was because even though the pilot read back the callsign, he never read back the runway assignment. You must readback everything with your callsign. You might be able to get away with abbreviated version at smaller airports, but if that pilot goes to runway 25 instead of 26 and the controller never checks the pilots readback, then that’s the controllers ass.
I’d love to force ATC to say PHX APP, after every transmission. It is a lie that you can’t recognize a voice after they have already given their call sign. Their voice after that point becomes their call sign. Government workers only care about one thing: keeping their jobs.
I also got a slight reprimand from Phoenix Approach back a few years ago for not acknowledging my call sign after read back. since then I have never forgotten my call sign after read back.
Phoenix controllers are a bit hard, but I'm glad for they keep us safe when in there control. Thank you PHX.
That is the bottom line, "Keep us safe"!
Does your callsign change with each flight? If so, I feel like it could get confusing having different call signs every flight.
"Delta 15....err oops that was my last flight, Delta 1725."
It's not really that difficult. I think being a dick on the radio is STUPID!@@Doitology
@@JC-wj5osno
The phone number to call was over the top....no need for that.... other than that, I think I ATC did ok.
There are some things that aren’t required but we all know runway assignments and callsign are. Come on, guys.
I’m a retired controller with 40 years in Tower, TRACON, and Center. I also hold an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Luckily these situations are very rare, I only had problems a few times with pilots. Proper phraseology is imperative to a safe ATC system.
Under what ARTCC were you providing radar service?
Thank you for reassuring the public.
I'm PPC holder (50 hours of instrument). I'm in the Controller's corner here. Pilots should be reading back their call signs to eliminate any ambiguity, it only takes an extra second.
In the pilot's defense though, he wasn't trying to be lazy. He was just trying to abbreviate his transmissions to keep the frequency clear. But his attitude upon being chided by ATC was unprofessional.
the one that doesn’t field stupid questions
What happens if the pilot has a speech impediment?
Controller wasn't wrong. Pilot took it personal and was being a dick about it.
Whether you feel like it or not, gotta read back. End of story.
More like I have a number for you to call. To be continued...
Especially with all the close calls and runway incursions recently. I swear I’ve heard this crybaby AA pilot arguing with co trollers in the past.
controller was not wrong...... just RUDE
@williamfrank7565
Rather be a Rude ATC than a polite ATC that has a fatal occurrence on his record.
These are Alpha Dogs so hurt feelings are for sissy’s
@@williamfrank7565well when you tell someone whos in the right that they arent doing their job right expect to hear something rude lol
Heard this audio awhile back, glad you have the longer version (with Tower's exchange). I can't imagine the other pilot working in the cockpit at that instance. Now they both have to file paper work and call the number...
The proper ATC radio communication is even longer than what is mentioned here. In the real world, a lot of abbreviations and non conformance exist to save time. But what the ATC is asking here is quite reasonable. 1) you don't want the wrong a/c reading back, especially if there are multiple a/c with similar call signs or flight numbers. 2) you don't want the correct a/c landing into the wrong parallel runway, which PHX has 3) no matter how righteous the pilot feels, they should be able to control their emotions and carry on their day.
And on top he was switched from 25 to 26 so the ATC needed to know for sure if they truly are going for 26...
one thing for sure, don't ever mess up with people who are meant to keep your safety in the air... i just remember atc - pilot conversation in new york (with aer lingus i believe), and the atc just made that plane turned in circle because that plane wanted to fly to direct waypoint, instead of the traffic at that time...
Agreed. Especially since PHX is an American hub there are going to be lots of company around.
I love how the young-sounding pilot in Skywest reads back better than the presumably experienced American dude.
"Do you need a phone number?" "Not gonna waste my time". Oh, well....in that case, yes.....yes you are LOL
The pilot’s unprofessional radio work and attitude shocked me.
Really???
@@RLTtizME really
@@Timothy_Texan OMG...shocked say you...don't have a breakdown....really.
@@RLTtizME I am an airline pilot and his attitude was petulant and unprofessional. So, I was shocked as well that his ego got the best of him and probably conceded him a meeting with the American Phoenix hub chief pilot.
@@enriqueosuna So did you start sweating and shaking with incredulity and shock? Tough crowd don't you agree.
"you seem nice and calm" that was so funny after the fact
Sarcastic. Unnecessary comms.
Passive aggressive...
Trying to use jealousy to bait the incompetent pilot. Not the correct use of radio. Gas lighting ATC baiting an incompetent pilot on frequency. Noone comes out this looking professional.
And it showed arrogance. No need to bring another pilot into the situation as if he wanted her to take sides!
Yeah that was a "richard" move by ATC
American 1479- you’re a highly paid professional flight crew! You know the rules and the proper phraseology which has been established with the blood of others that have crashed. Read back all ATC instructions and runway assignments with your call sign! Get with the program and stop being so snooty!
That’s why the other guy took over…not sure if it was the FO or Capt that was the original PM…
seems like the other guy had a younger voice, seemed like the FO but could be completely wrong@@BryanOliver-fc9jd
It was captain inflight, FO on gnd doing the coms. I bet the FO was so embarrassed 😂
Highly paid?
Highly paid, not sure... professional, nope...
If ATC corrects you, thank them, maybe even apologize and move forward. Drop the attitude, captains. It’s pointless when you’re the one who is wrong.
The proper response was “oops, sorry, AA1479” then do it correctly.
The second pilot was professional. The first pilot has the wrong temperament for airline flying.
@@08turboSS You sound like one yourself. Let me guess......Trump supporter.
@@rael5469what does any of this have to do with politics tf? Grow up
@@goonzmx Just as I thought, a foul mouthed, deplorable, racist, Trump supporter.
@@08turboSS You sound like Pilot 1 in this video - a dickhead...
@@08turboSS No foreigners on our fit decks? You are the definition of the words 'arrogant' and 'bigot'. Time to get off your high horse.
Holy crap when the second controller hits them with the deviation rofl.
Pilots at fault, also giving an attitude after the fact smh 🤦
Huh? What about the other pilot who was reading back correctly and without sass? Do you even know who was flying? I feel bad for the other pilot he got dragged into this stupid situation instead of just going home or to his next flight.
Seeing a lot of videos from various creators lately with pilots being extremely rude and unprofessional with controllers. As a pilot building hours toward my commercial, all I gotta say is: If you're that unhappy with your jobs, I'll trade you any day. You're flying an airplane for a living. Smile. You've got the coolest job in the world.
It seems that way when your working up. But it’s still a job at the end of the day. Usually the stuff around the getting to fly a plane is what drags on you over time. The “Getting to fly a plane for money” tends to undermine getting real QoL in the rest of the job.
Just a bus driver in the sky but even more boring. Travel straight lines for hrs
The co-pilot took over plane's comm on the ground. The ATC was frustrated with the pilot for not using proper comm procedures. I'm sure AA will hear about it and take measures to correct this pilot.
No, I don't think so. I think the "second" voice you hear IS the Captain. The culprit in this video making a mockery of proper radio etiquette is the First Officer.
@@marcusoreillius9966no, it’s the captain being the unprofessional dick on the radio in the air. The First Officer handles the radios on the ground.
There is a right way and a wrong way to communicate. This pilot is not king of the airways, he needs to be set down and get further training.
It's not a training issue it's an attitude issue.
And lose his obnoxious attitude!
Part of the ATC's job is guiding the flights properly and also verifying that the pilot understands the instructions and that is why they require a read-back. Controller was correct and pilot was triggered because he got called out for being lazy.
If I was in the other seat of American 1479 (Captain or FO) I would not fly with that pilot again. I would also report him to professional standards. "Pro Standards" is the union (APA) representative that avoids involvement of management.
Being 99% compliant in the cockpit is a recipe for disaster. Some supervisor needs to listen to this, then brace that pilot up against the wall for a career discussion.
As a retired controller I would say the controller was correct in wanting a full read back on the clearances HOWEVER….
This doesn’t really rise to the level of a pilot deviation. The reason controllers need full read backs is because sometimes parts of a transmission do get cut off. In this case there was one transmission by the controller that had the numbers but omitted the company identifier. If the pilots were smart they would just say they were giving their full call sign every time and for some reason it wasn’t coming through.
Either way I’m sure nothing came of this
i think the ATC advised possible pilot deviation because he was acting like a child and wanted to argue with the ATC over the radio...
@@insomnia20422yeah exactly. The controller was being a petty prick just like the pilot was.
Notes taken.
The way the pilot was sarcastically speaking once he was upset honestly is how all ATC communication should be if safety were properly respected by all involved.
Ding Ding Ding Ding!
Generally speaking, all pilots and all controllers blurt out words and phrases so abruptly and quickly I don’t see how anybody understand anything. (I’m just a “layman” not in the industry.)
@@mikebarker9187You get used to it. Especially because you know where the flow is going.
@@mikebarker9187 It sounds like a foreign language to someone not in the industry, but the pilots and controllers speak the language fluently!
If the controller in the tower was from Phoenix Arizona the pilot's lucky that controller graduated high school.. 'Nuff said!!!
@@dwightbernheimer331 So many people these days with an inflated ego who imagine themselves superior. Like this guy, they are now everywhere. And no, I'm not from Phoenix Arizona.
Very simple, you MUST use your callsign.
Last thing you need is a stress pilot on final.
Last thing you need is pilot landing on the wrong runway
Thank god this is in 4K!
I used to listen to YVR Tower all the time and I remember there was a local controller there who instead of (eg) "Time 1358 Vancouver Tower cleared downwind left for runway one-two, contact Vancouver Tower on 118.7 at the VOR" would say "Time 1358 VOR 18-7 for twelve". Good times.
Pilot needs to be grounded.
That's worrying.. if he is annoyed about having to use the the correct phrases. What else is he not doing in the cockpit that he should be..
When he started reading it back slowly on purpose - that was great - clear to understand, easy to spot mistakes. Every readback should be like that.
Yea but if you can’t be all terse and gravely, why bother even being on the radio?
Wrong answer…at busy airports you have to be efficient on the radio…ATC does not have the time to babysit!
How the hell this guy made it to a Part 121 seat is beyond me.
I have been looking for one of those for months.
Yes sir,I totaly agree with you! He sounded like a spoiled teen! What a shame!
He’s in the left seat too.
Some people just interview good.
Cutbacks must be causing psych tests to get dropped from interviews. Sad.
I love the way his whole attitude changed after hearing the words "possible pilot deviation".
It was the other pilot at that point
Best part is he also didn't follow the taxi instructions
Not sure I would want the pilot of my airplane in an argument with the tower when he is supposed to be concentrating on landing the airplane
I have a feeling the tower isn't the last conversation he will have about this. The one with the chief pilot is the one that he may need to be really afraid of. He may want to call a union rep right after the tower.
That guy should not be in any cockpit
"WHEN ATC AND THE CAPTAIN HAVE THEIR PERIOD IN THE SAME WEEK"
DANGEROUS.... THERE, I FIXED THE TITLE
love the #2 having to step in because #1 is acting like a toddler having a hissy fit
Felt like the captain took off his headset to fume for a minute the first time the FO took over. Glad most of flying is automated now and not fully reliant on the emotions of an ill-tempered pilot.
I read it exactly opposite. No way mister happy I'm just here to chat was the Captain. I'm sure the Captain has put up with this F/O's shenagins for not just the duration of this flight, but for more before. After all, this could be day 3 of a 3-day trip and he's put up with it for a while. When you have a generational separation, actually disciplining small stuff like this will get you eye-rolls and complaints to the Chief Pilot of their base of operations.
@@marcusoreillius9966 Ok so i may have misinterpreted who was #1
i get that
but it's just not acceptable to mis-readback instructions (that's basic) and then throw your toys out of the pram when you're picked up on it by someone who's job it is to make sure it's done correctly
it's all on the tapes after all and a good controller would be picked up on it if he let that slide
you mentioned it could be day 3 of 3
WHO CARES ?
if you can't do the job correctly don't do it
and an 'eye roll' from a Chief Pilot at an Ops Base explains why these things happen way too often
Communication is Key
If you get it wrong then that's when accidents happen and after all these guys are bus drivers, it's about the passengers safety, not their ego
(20+ years of working on ATC Advanced Systems Research Projects & Training Students, Controllers and Instructors at Institutions across the world)
The decay of professional courtesy has even reached commercial aviation. That's what happens when standards are lowered.
That’s what happens when professionalism is expected from time clock punching fungible HR units.
Professionals run their own practices and get punished for being shit at it by going out of business.
There needs to be a different word than “professional” to describe behaving like a grownup employee.
@mzaite I think it is this sense of entitlement that permeates our society especially in social media.
These are white pilots..... they had full standards
Pilot shortages putting jerks in the cockpit is a recipe for disaster. Glad ATC holding the line.
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"Yup"
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"Sure thing"
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"What's your problem?!?!"
the last thing I want to hear as a flyer is an argument in the cockpit!
It's one thing when you're by yourself and the only guy in the pattern, but airliners at large airports need to be by the book.
These callouts are important if a mishap or accident occurs. Some airports are stickers about call sign callouts, but approach and runway confirmations are most important. This pilot was all over the place. ATC was pretty patient until the end.
Flying out of Phoenix, certain controllers have a tendency to escalate such situations simply by the tone of their voice. I recently flew the Bravo transition south, and missed adding my callsign. The approach controller became borderline hostile on frequency. Apologetic I reiterated with my callsign and moved on. Though I was definitely annoyed about the treatment.
That being said, the pilot was pretty childish and should have been more professional here.
The ATC here and in your case is right though. If you cant ignore a stressed tone of voice, pilot isnt the right profession.
@@insomnia20422 of course ATC was right, but he didn’t have to bite my head off about it. I don’t get belligerent with ATC, and there have been plenty of opportunities to do so. Professionalism is a two way street.
They've got plenty to sort out without needing to be confused on ANY detail. It is their responsibility to coordinate every craft full of human souls to arrive safely and orderly.
You’re flying a plane, not riding a bike, and need to adhere to the rules and regulations, otherwise there can be a serious miscommunication leave your ego out of it, especially when you have a plan full of passengers.
@@brycedenning130I'm ATC and we get regular proficiency checks where the supervisor is plugged in listening. If you let anything at all slide (like a readback without the callsign, even if it's clearly the same person), you get written up for it. No way am I going to have a failed check ride on my record just because a pilot is feeling lazy, so that's why you might get an attitude from ATC.
flight school 101, use your callsigns correctly. this pilot was clearly tired or undisciplined
Undisciplined, good discipline still holds up when tired. That’s why it’s discipline.
about 8 years ago i was based out of lax starting my airline career for compass as a copilot for an AA Regional carrier and there was some frustration in the tower because of language dialect issues for some intl carriers arriving not all but some which is understandable. Most of the errors were related to read backs. A buddy of mine works for new york center and he says they deal with the same issues occasionally.
I had a student who was from Taiwan and read-backs were his kryptonite. He had been in the states since early high school, but languages like Chinese have a tough time with “in-between” words.
He’s good now, but yea, some languages are shaped really different from english.
Kinda shocking to hear controllers enunciate well.
missing a runway assignment readback seems really major since if they land on the wrong runway, people could die
Could be worse, they could be CommutAir a couple years back and just miss the runway entirely.
As a frequent flyer the last thing I want to hear is ATC arguing with the pilot
Or an arrogant pilot getting all poopy pants at the controls of a multi million dollar jet, hundreds of lives in the back, and my precious unmentionables in the overhead.
F-5’s Sniper 11 and 22 were reprimanded by ZAB Tucson sector on 3/2 at ~19:34 for busting into R-2310A and then were notified of possible pilot deviation at KIWA ground at ~19:50
What?
The controllers were much nicer than I would have been with this incompetent pilot
Seems to be a new breed of controllers coming out of school however, it might be a good idea for more aircrews to visit some of the facilities and witness the atmosphere in the tower and IFR room, especially during a peak periods. Not including my military controlling years, I peronally had the opportunity to work the slowest to the busiest facilities the FAA had at the time. Each facility had it's own flavor of operation. The one ingredient that never changed was attention to detail. One of a controllers worst nightmares is miss identification or assuming an aircraft is going to do what you expect it to and it doesn't. My aircrew friends are also under pressure. Fatigue from some of the schedules they are faced with that many times includes sleep deprvation due to their schedules. Some crews having to take flights from out of town just to get to their assigned trip. We all want to vent. Not sure transmitting frustrations over the air is the best policy. Attention to detail however, must remain high on both sides. It is part of the job.
Including your call sign is 2nd nature, same goes with reading back the rwy, especially on a clearance.
I remember I once read back “holdshort on rwy 5”, ATC replied “No, holdshort rwy 5” and rightly so made me read back w/o the preposition.
Because on means your ON runway 5 and holding short. And that would be bad.
That’s my point, needs to be clear. In my mind, my “on” really meant “at”.
Yeah 2 parallel runways, gotta be real specific. Controller was in the right.
What app is this in the video? It looks good. I would like to use it.
How is this guy flying commercial if he can’t do a proper read back that everyone is required to do
That pilot clearly has had a bad day or some anger issues. But acting like a child is really not it.
If the ATC prefers you to make accurate callbacks you gotta do it. If there is an accident ATC is in the shit if you didnt read back the runway and crash into an airplane on 25...
The ATC just voiced his demands for the pilot to accurately callback. The pilot then mocked him by saying if there was an communication problem.
The ATC did everything very well and I think it should be standard to be more accurate on the radio to reduce confusion.
And even the pilot deviation, although not a huge one, might be possible because he didnt accurately callback and then started to argue with the ATC when he wanted accurate callbacks.
When i took my class for my private pilot license, it was preached over and again to follow all the instructions including my call sign.
Great to learn 😅
The big boys like to use alot of slang in their transmissions. They use " climbing to two five zero" which could be misunderstood as 2250 or what have you. Or they hop on the freq and use only thier flight number to accept a freq change or alt,speed,or crossing restriction. They most definitely have a more relaxed view on radio edict than others..
That same type of “slang” caused FTL 66 to crash years ago, while on approach.. In that case it was broken English. Controller said “Descend two four zero zero” , when he meant descend to 2400 ft. The FTL crew interpreted the transmission as “Descend TO 400 feet” while miles from the airport
True. I would be definitely asking for another read back after ATC telling me to decend and maintain 400ft though. That's way to low.
No one is ever given a clearance to 2250’. 😂
Never. Call. The. Number!
Sure if you’re a renter in a private plane. An airline, they just call your dispatch, dispatch tells ATC, FAA, and your boss who you are, and then things…escalate.
@@mzaiteNope 😂
IF I WAS CAPTAIN, I WOULD SAY UNABLE TO COPY PHONE NUMBER UNTIL PARKED AT GATE... ONCE AT THE GATE I WOULD TURN OFF THE RADIO
The Tower control really got his straight !! LOL
Lack of professionalism in the cockpit has doomed many.
the controllers were superb here !
I didn’t understand the “pilot deviation” at the end and giving him the phone no.
I knew the AAL pilot was snarky, but did he actually mess up on landing to get a phone no.?
Probably not, that is why it is called "possible" pilot deviation. Just wanted to talk and make an impression.
its a formal notification to the FAA, YOUR COMPANY AIRLINE , AND FLIGHT CONTROL, THAT YOU THE PILOT MADE A SERIOUS POSSIBLY FATAL MISTAKE,, AND THEY WILL WANT SOME GOID ANSERS FROM THE PILOT
It was not because he was being snarky, it was because the correct readbacks are required. The problem for ATC was not that he simply *forgot* to do proper readbacks, like making an "honest mistake." It's that the ensuing conversation made it clear that the problem wasn't that he forgot to do them correctly, but that he didn't even know how to do them correctly, or didn't care. That makes it a reportable, safety-of-flight condition. That's a different problem than being snarky.
They followed the normal protocol... If you're getting pissy with the controller on approach, then asking you to copy a number will escalate into an argument on the air. So the approach guy did exactly the right thing. Hand the guy off to tower, and then have the ground controller be the one who breaks the news to him. Otherwise it's likely the pilot would have uncorked on the controller over the air.
Wow, so unprofessional 😮, the controller was just doing his job
What is interesting to note is the ATC guys did not let it go.Once the captain turned comms over to his copilot he thought he was in the clear.
Any diminishing of your mental capabilities will be challenged.
That “you seem nice and kind” killed me 😂
Blown way out of proportion on both ends.
Yep
Your the winner today
You answered correctly and
2 idiots don’t equal 1 solution
Uh, actually no. Controllers are required to get accurate readbacks; not to mention this is at an airport with 3 parallel runways. This pilot was failing BASIC pilot/controller communication skills.
@@paranoma87 So give him a number and be done with it, sparring over the frequency like a child isn't acceptable on either end, both acted like children on a playground.
@@sebrofc ATC didnt spar with him though. He gave him the reasons why he needed an immediate compliance with FAR's. If he didnt do that then he would have cancelled his approach clearance and that would have caused more delay so ATC did exactly what he should have. The pilot then got spiffy when he was clearly in the wrong. I am in full support of any controller giving a phone number to any pilot acting like a jerk when ATC was just doing their job. This system works because both parties agree to a set of standards that increase safety and decrease needless communication. This pilot was violating that pact.
@@paranoma87 This isn't important enough for me to read your paragraph, just my perception. Happy flying or controlling or whatever you do.
Vector to join the loc, altitude to maintain, then a visual approach clearance in the very next transmission....retired ATC here, that's a bit of a head scratcher.
Sounded to me like there were two pilots in AM 1479 responding. One screwing up and one trying to correct and everyone getting a bit annoyed.
Too many recent incidents to get ur panties in a wod because you decided to shorthand and they called you on it.
I hope that crews boss heard this tape.
I'll never understand why pilots don't get it that atc has strict procedures to follow and if they don't their supervisor, or worse yet the FAA will get on their ass about it.
How bizarre. ATC in the US cuts us a lot of slack, but some things just have to be read back, such as e.g. runway numbers. No idea why he got so defensive about his incomplete readbacks.
I can taste the salt from here😂😂😂
its literally required and easy to include your callsign
They even messed up the taxi read back. Ground controller missed it.
The controller was pissing me off too
Pilot was completely wrong on multiple calls, and I feel the controller's passive-aggressive approach to reprimanding the pilot further escalated the situation. Doing a full re-read of the instruction with added emphasis on the part he didn't read back was a bit pedantic, just tell him upfront what he needs to read back, next time he doesn't do it, tell him flat out it's a deviation. Just my two cents. End of the day though, pilot was wrong and doubled-down big time on being a man child in the cockpit of an A320 with probably around 150 souls in the back. Get this guy some damn counseling.
As a military instructor pilot, we emphasized the proper use of call signs. This pilot was not adhering to proper radio usage.
The controller decided to play the standard phraseology game while having no regard for standard phraseology himself. The pilot was in the wrong on the first two transmission by not ending with his callsign, but he fixed it and read back the third instruction without error. The controller continued to berate the pilot for no good reason. Then the tower controller had absolutely no regard for phraseology, intentionally antagonizing the pilot. ATC was completely in the wrong here.
I'm just curious, and I am not a pilot, what was the pilot deviation for?
Good observance. There would not be one. They would do better to call his chief pilot.
@@SpaceDad42Well said
iv seen quiet a few European pilots have this issue with reading back the details ....wonder if its a different training issue?
That pilot sounds like the same guy who was having readback issues at KJFK. Same voice, same accent, same airline, same exact issue and sarcastic "staccato" readback of flight number.
Be funny if it was the same trip!
I thought of the same thing!!
I'm siding with ATC on this. They're doing their job professionally while the pilot is being a real jerk. I mean, we all got to get along, and safely.
this guy should consider a career change, or at least a looong vacation
"Play your games at home. Be a professional at work."
The ATC handbook 7110.65 states that pilots may acknowledge clearances or instructions by simply saying "Wilco", "Roger", or other appropriate remarks. (FAA 7110.65, 2-4-3).
The pilot was unprofessional and the controller got snippy right back which escalated the issue. However it is not best practice and the AIM, while not regulatory, lists a few things as recommended readback. I have been a CFI for 40 years and highly recommend the AIM but again, it’s not regulatory. I know, 99% of us still use the AIM recommendation but believe it or not, it’s not required…
But the AIM *doesn't* say what 2-4-3 of the .65 claims it says. AIM 4-4-7, Pilot Responsibility upon Clearance Issuance says, and I will quote verbatim:
1. Include the aircraft identification in all readbacks and acknowledgments.
4. Initial read back of a taxi, departure or landing clearance should include the runway assignment
WILCO is appropriate for controller instructions like "extend your base" or "change to my frequency 123" but if the controller transmission contains the words "cleared to", it is a clearance and not simply an instruction, and I can't think of any situation I've been in where "WILCO" would be appropriate for a clearance.
First lesson in aviation: never let your emotions get in the way. Stay professional , if you want to talk about something you didn't like ,ask for initials and a phone number.
Richard Hayden: I can't hear you, you're trailing off and did I catch a niner in there? Were you calling from a walkie-talkie?
Tommy: No, it was cordless.
The rules are extremely important to avoid miscommunication. The pilot knows the rules but the ATC was the cause for the unnecessary escalation. It's not like there was anyone else talking to that ja.
The American pilot was so hostile because he just got a new contract and isnt happy about the weight of that new big bag of gold he now has to tote around.
He’s still making a Dime to his bosses Dollar.
Should be 9 cents to the dollar@@mzaite
This pilot needs to be fired for his childish and dangerous attitude!
ATC*
Unbelievable an alleged professional would behave like that. I feel sorry for the controller having to deal with the situation.
The problem is assigning the concept of Professional to a blue collar employment job typically done by someone with zero other transferable skills beyond saying “would you like fries with that?”
We like the Idea of Professional pilots, hell we NEED the idea that pilots are Professionals. But they’re just employees punching a time clock. And the more desperate airlines get for warm bodies with 1500 hours, the less it should be expected that “Professional” is just a given with the employees.
The problem is assigning the concept of Professional to a blue collar employment job typically done by someone with zero other transferable skills beyond saying “would you like fries with that?”
We like the Idea of Professional pilots, hell we NEED the idea that pilots are Professionals. But they’re just employees punching a time clock. And the more desperate airlines get for warm bodies with 1500 hours, the less it should be expected that “Professional” is just a given with the employees.
I think it goes both ways. Both sides of the radio communication are under pressure of some sort. The ATC got on to the pilot for not saying what he was supposed to say, And then the ATC controller gets an attitude because of the way he was spoken to by the pilot. I think if I would have been the pilot I probably would have told him "what difference should that make to you".
I disagree completely. I don't know why every conflict has to be excused as "both sides same," I guess it makes people feel better. There are times when there is clearly one party singularly at fault. I can assure you that if a controller tells you that you are violating a mandatory procedure, and you come back on the radio with "what difference should that make to you" then you are almost certainly going to be facing enforcement action. The controller was direct, but at no time was he unprofessional.
Is there a recording of the phone call? :D :D