@milanciga You get a number to call the tower, and you end up usually talking to a supervisor who asks you what happened to (in this case) make you enter the airspace (or whatever other rule you broke that caused the phone call). In this case, the pilot was kind of a dick instead of just saying sorry so that will also be taken into account. Then they file a report with the FAA You might get a black mark on your cert or you might not. Depends on what you did and how you handled it.
In some of these examples, ATC participates a lot in making a simple situation worse. Once they start yelling and acting entitled and childish about an infraction, the situation is bound to get worse. A lot of these controllers should be dropping fries rather than flaunting their perceived authority. In 30 years of flying, I've definitely come across my share of bad ones and your only defense is to shut up and say as little as possible as they have their little melt-downs.
Are you kidding me mate. Do you think the controller was nasty? Who gave this guy a twin endorsement, actually who gave him a licence? He is not at the bus station. Seriously
When you are responsible for the safety of thousands of lives each day, and an entitled douchebag, driven by sheer incompetence is unable to adhere to basic safety procedures, might cause an accident resulting in collateral damage to others in a high-risk operational area.It is understandable, they come off as pissed off and and fed up you. I find it astounding that, with your 30 years of flying experience, there seems to be a lack of respect for air traffic control (ATC). As, essentially, they hold your life in the palm of their hands, with as you put it "percieved ", authority.
Is it actually published anywhere a pilot not familiar with the airport would think to look? Quick check of ForeFlight revealed nothing about what the controller was going off about, obviously ForeFlight isn’t the be all end all resource but if this isn’t published as an official departure procedure I can’t imagine any reason for the controller to go off on a pilot like that for not knowing it. Even if it was a departure procedure those are generally only IFR, many VFR pilots probably aren’t checking for one and if they are they aren’t going out of their way in 99% of cases. Took me several minutes to find it knowing what I was looking for, nowhere on the page does it even have an FAA logo or anything to signify this is more official than a noise abatement procedure the county came up with. Like I am sorry but if I am departing from an unfamiliar airport I would not tolerate getting yelled at by the controller after admitting I am unfamiliar and requesting vectors all because I didn’t check the county website for a VFR departure procedure.
i agree with you. the controller could have been more polite in his tone.but when i fly out from an unfamiliar airport i get myself adequately briefed up about the SIDs and STARs atleast which i am expecting so that i do not waste the controller's precious time..
I flew commercial for 20 yrs and ATC has become less helpful and more authoritarian with a tendency unprofessionally quibble over everything. In my early days ATC and aircrew felt more like a team working together. Now it feels adversarial.
They're trying to juggle multiple aircraft of various types and sizes in a restricted/small traffic area. It's not the job of the ATC to research your flight plan and choose what vector you want to take on your way to your destination. THAT'S THE PILOT'S JOB. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, DON'T FLY.
Yeah good old times 20 years ago when we had much less safety regulations and planes were crashing left and right. But hey the ATC was more chill back then :^)
0:26 All of those procedures that ATC mentions are VOLUNTARY procedures not listed in any official FAA publication. The Airport Facility Directory only gives a number to call for information about noise abatement procedures. If they are that concerned about pilots following the voluntary noise abatement procedures, they could just put a note in the AFD directing the pilots to the airport website instead of suggesting that they call a phone number that probably would not even be answered after hours. The procure is voluntary and the pilot told him he wanted a 114 heading to Bakersfield. The only response from tower should have been "Fly 114 heading, cleared for takeoff" If that heading takes a VFR pilot into other airspace, the pilot himself is responsible for coordinating with the other facilities.
False. He mentioned bravo airspace which is absolutely controlled upwards of 10000ft down to surface. And they have named departure routes. If you are unable to look up your departures then you shouldn’t be flying.
@@aaronwalden5417he mentioned flying BELOW the bravo airspace. And no VFR departure procedures are published for San Carlos. The pilot was understandably confused because the controller was not clear as to what he was referring. He meant to say noise abatement procedures, but even those aren’t published where pilots can easily find them. The AFD simply says to contact the airport manager by phone to receive them. Controller was demanding that a pilot fly a VOLUNTARY procedure that isn’t published in the AFD, and then insults the pilot for not being able to find it. If I were the one paying $400+/hour for a twin Cessna to sit on the ground because of this horrible controller, I would be more than pissed.
@@aaronwalden5417 What is false? If the VFR pilot transits the nearby class B airspace, the pilot himself is responsible for the class B clearance. The tower is only responsible for his own class D. The tower in this case is not part of the nearby class B, it is under it. The named departure routes are not published in any official FAA publication. They might as well be written on the bathroom mirror in lipstick.
@@aaronwalden5417 KSQL is weird, they have their own departure name that not publish anywhere but their website. it's probably not the guy home airport, and wouldn't of know unless he's hanging out at the cafe.
I was never comfortable talking on the radio which is one reason I gave up getting my license. I was about 20 years old at the time. I got yelled at one time myself when I was on a solo VFR flight. This was back before GPS and the plane I learned on had nothing but the basics, not even a transponder. I was never able to get a good handle on exactly how to judge my distance from the airport when contacting the tower. For example do I say I'm 5 miles out or 8 miles out or what. I was afraid I would give the wrong distance. The mistake I made was I contacted the tower and instead of saying my distance from the airport I told them I was over a particular landmark. That got me a very nasty sounding "I don't know were that is" remark from the tower. So I just made a guess and said I'm 10 miles south which got me a radar contact response back. I don't blame the guy but I felt about 2 inches tall after that. I made it as far as passing the written test, but on my final check ride from the head instructor I got nervous and got yelled at the during landing. I never went back and that was that. Just as well, flying is too expensive for the average person, especially being it was just going to be a hobby for me and not a job. Now days I just enjoy flight sim 2020. At least I didn't get a phone number to call. lol
This is a perfect example of why I never pursued my dream as a pilot. I realize that I would have done much worse than you, and harmed myself or others. Good for you for being self-aware.
I feel ya, and it takes guts to put that out there for all to see and know. The radio was always a bit much for me as well. Some of us are great at doing one thing at a time, but making sense of what's going on spatially with the radio communication happening so quickly, yea, scared the crap out of me too.
I've never flown but I really feel you on this. Even flying sims with public lobbies I usually go into private ones just to make sure I'm not in anyone else's way. Sometimes I really wish there was a setting to like require a bit of simulated protocol in these games though; I feel like the sim environment would be perfect to build or restore confidence if only there were a way to practice it in there.
Honestly, that's too bad. We've all had moments of getting scolded on the radio as well as by a flight instructor and it's part of learning to fly. Not knowing how far you were exactly from an airport was also common back in the day before gps and is something you get better at judging with more time. You could have gotten past it if you continued to train. But being that you walked away , maybe it just wasn't for you.
>gets yelled at one time cuz too dumb to route study, bring paper maps. >quits for life. You were raised by a single mom or a sissy beta daddy. I wonder how all those pilots before gps and all the tech gadgets got around
Surprise, surprise... It's San Carlos ATC. (The same ATC that got in trouble for argung with a student pilot flying with an FAA pilot examiner.) Those controllers all seem to think they're the re-incarnation of JFK's controllers. And it's a contract ATC, you'd think they'd be nicer...
No they're all bitter at the low pay of a contract tower while having to live in a super high cost of living area, with none of the benefits of government employment (pension, promotional ability, protection from firing etc).
@kewkabe Man, I thought slavery was outlawed! How do they force them to work there? I'd freaking quit. Seriously, if no one will work, they'll have to pay more. And just fyi, I've lived in Silicon Valley 50 years, and EVERYONE is underpaid. (Just ask them.) But we aren't all acting like jerks...
San Carlos Airport pretty much killed my love for aviation about 20 yrs ago. Garbage controllers, crappy stuck up flight "instructors" at Diamond, outrageous fees, I just lost interest .
I got a stern talking to by the Chief Pilot of my flight school after I disregarded a tower instruction to extend my upwind for an arriving A/C, I basically cut in front of him. Lucky I did not receive the phone number but I got a serious talking to and further instruction on departure procedures. After this I was seriously focussed on doing everything well and professionally, aced my flight tests including my intense IFR check ride....went off to Africa to fly bush planes...came close to a job but didn't pan out....back home I went up north and worked ramp for a year and a half and decided that I did not want to earn minimum wage for a few more years while I build time (I was late 30's then) so I abandoned my short lived career and started a new career....yet...I dream about flying again! It was extremely rewarding! I loved it but not for a career! Flying is a bug...if you get the bug, you never want to leave because it never leaves you!
Unless the pilot is flying IFR, he has no reason to look up published IFR departure routes. He is clearly flying VFR. This controller is way out of line in this situation.
I don't know Bakersfield, but I fly out of KRNT all the time. Due to all the Bravo (and other Delta) airspace all around us, there are clearly published procedures for VFR arrivals/departures. E.g. even if I ask to depart to the north (general direction), I'll get told to do either a Factoria or East Channel departure depending on which runway I'm departing on as the call back. I've heard a few times inbound aircraft reply with an "I'm not familiar with this airport" when given an approach (e.g. "make Kent arrival), though the controllers are pretty good about it when it happens. That said, I've never heard anyone try to depart and not understand a departure clearance.
@@mcrvids6860 You can Google "renton airport traffic patterns". This link will be there, or you can actually just go to www.rentonwa.gov/city_hall/public_works/renton_municipal_airport/information and click on "Click here for Pilot Information" cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_7922657/File/City%20Hall/Public%20Works/Transportation%20Systems/Renton%20Municipal%20Airport/Airport%20Noise%20Abatement%20Procedures/Renton%20Airport_Pilot%20Info%202021_WEB.pdf
I'm in flight training right now in South Africa and when we fly out of the international airport here (Dawid stuurman intl airport in Port Elizabeth/Gqeberha) We have a set of departure/arrival VFR procedures to follow. Fortunately it (the information) is readily available to us, so its not a huge deal. Was scary the first two times, but after that, it's pretty routine. Fortunately for us, our flight school has its own runway, so we don't really fly out of the airport that often.@@hefeibao
Some of these were just super unprofessional controllers. They have such an ego they don't realize they're actually endangering people by acting like that.
Which? All i hear is a pilot expecting a controller to babysit them instead of reading the requirements of the airport. He didn't make a mistake, he didn't even try. Then an aircraft not flying the normal speed through the airspace. Then a pilot feeling entitled to enter controlled airspace without waiting. Sometimes you get to an approach point and need to do an orbit while waiting for a clearance. Then a pilot not navigating correctly on the ground. Then a pilot taking off in the opposite direction. Do you think pilots are allowed to do whatever they want and it's up to controllers to sort everything out for them? Flying is really not that hard and there's absolutely no excuses here. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but expecting vectors because you can't be bothered reading information is not a mistake. Entering controlled airspace without clearance because the controller didn't answer you is not a mistake. Those are choices pilots made. Not being sure of where you're taxiing and taxiing anyway is not a mistake either. Would you ever make excuses for a truck driver behaving this way?
@@chrisnoname2725I feel bad about the pilot who accidentally made wrong turns. They didn’t deserve to be screamed at. They were respectful, apologized, and they tried asking specific questions to fix their mistakes. Yes the controller was frustrated, but there was no reason for the screaming. There’s been several catastrophic events related to people being belittled or humiliated.
@@JasmineS-gc6tg It is not respectful to be operating an aircraft when you are not in a fit state to be doing so or not competent. That pilot needed to be taxied to parking and his conduct investigated. If he is unable to safely navigate around an airport that's a concern. What if he then takes off and is incapable of flying the standard departure too? If he was unable to see the intersection markers he needed to stop and inform ground that he was unable to navigate around the airport. There is more to being respectful than just apologizing. Would you excuse a truck driver for going the wrong way in a one way street or going through a red light in fog, or would you think they're an idiot for not being able to safely do their job?
@chrisnoname2725 Or you dont snap at people who make mistakes and make the situation worse. The pilot is clearly turned around a bit already, as happens with everyone, and a person shouting in their ear isn't likely to help get them back on track; it'll just stress them out more and lead to more problems. Learn to talk to people and you'll get a better response. I've seen countless people that turn the wrong way on one way streets and they know they messed up. Getting out and shouting at them isn't going to solve anything quicker. It's just you being an asshole and shows you dont deserve any grace when you inevitability mess up.
@@chrisnoname2725 Yes actually, I would excuse a truck driver who made a wrong turn because last time I checked, nobody is perfect. But maybe you think you are based off the way you’re acting? I actually lost a family member due to a truck accidentally crossing the median and I understand that it was unintentional and the out of state driver apologized. Do you drive? Because I guarantee you everyone has made a wrong turn, or missed an exit at some point in their life. Would someone missing an exit make them incompetent? No. The only person who sounds incompetent here is you. There are reports every single day, all around the world of pilots making mistakes at airports, especially if the pilot is unfamiliar with the territory and some older designed airports can be very difficult to navigate. The pilot apologized and was respectful and that controller quite literally screamed at him. Yes the pilot was in the wrong but those actions from the controller could have made the situation worse. So technically the controller was in the wrong too. And I imagine if there was an accident, they both probably would have lost their jobs. There’s a right and wrong way to provide corrections. When they act like that, sometimes pilots refrain from asking questions because they don’t want to be humiliated. Sometimes signs are missed or misunderstood and rather than screaming in everyone’s ear, they could have said “sir you are going the wrong way please turn around and ask questions if you’re confused.” Have you heard about the near collision a few years back at JFK airport in NY? A plane accidentally missed a turn and both planes came within feet of each other. The controller noticed and they were thankfully able to prevent the collision but the controller knew the one plane accidentally made a wrong turn and he didn’t scold them. He respectfully asked them to copy a number from possible pilot deviation.
Me too :( he was so respectful and he apologized. He just made a mistake and he even made sure to ask specific questions about the turn so he didn’t cause any more issues.
If you hear the whole interaction, it makes sense. The ATC had to spend a lot of time talking to him when he was in the parking area just trying to get him to give a proper read back. The pilot was woefully under prepared for his departure. After he finally gets the proper read back he then struggles just to taxi and the ATC gets super frustrated at that point
57DA was at my home airpod KOWD. I was the one who sent this audio in originally haha! I recommend you watch this whole thing. Also this controller is a man, not a woman and gets very mad when people call him "ma'am" lol
Saw a different video on the incident with 601AD (shown at 3:33) and despite his assertion that no controller would give someone that heading, he VERY clearly did. So in this case, rather than “destroying an incompetent pilot”, he just looked like a jerk once you go back and listen to the whole incident.
I'm glad I checked the comments because I did not expect to see this. You get so used to ATCs being well on top of their game that they wouldn't make such a simple mistake like accidentally sending someone south instead of west and yet apparently it happened. Do you know where I can find the full video of this flight?
@@Flight_Follower Listening to the readback is part of ATCs job. Listening to the readback would also have helped (maybe he would have realized earlier and be more humble because he was the one fucking up, pilot did what he was directed to do by ATC).
What an arrogant controller the first one is. „Are you a Diamond“? „I expect more from a Cessna?“ Well, I fly Diamond aircraft and I always know my airspace. Though sometimes I also just state where I want to go so that ATC can choose how they want me to leave the CTR - as they sees fit. However, if they ask you for your departure route you should always know your preferred one. No matter if it‘s a Diamond, Cessna, Piper or an Airbus.
It's not arrogant. It's called being a competent pilot. FILE A FLIGHT PLAN with appropriate transitions and understand the airspace. The pilot should be reviewing charts and PLANNING his/her flight, not just "I'm going to Bakersfield, give me vectors". It is NOT ATC's responsibility to hold a pilot's hand (unless an emergency/mayday situation). It is the PILOT's responsibility to KNOW where he/she is going and how to get there. Departure? Transition? Altitude? etc It is ATC's responsibility to maintain aircraft separation and they don't have time to baby a pilot not adhering to standard operating procedures.
@@WingITFlightSim OK. And that has exactly WHAT to do with the kind of plane you fly? Why does the controller expect more from a Cessna? Try reading again: I fly Diamond aircraft (Dimona, DA20, DA40) and I always know my airspace. I expect more from any regardless of their type of plane.
The first example, N414TM, gets a pass. The "procedures" that San Carlos TWR mentions are voluntary procedures that aren't published publicly and are realistically only available to locals. The party that is actually incompetent here is San Carlos TWR for being an asshole to a transient who couldn't know better, and better yet, that tower has a track record of being brash to otherwise well-meaning pilots.
Yeah the pilot is admitting he needs assistance and is willing to do whichever route is easiest for the tower. Not sure what else he can do at that point, instead of solving the issue the tower got on some weird high horse
Hold my hand. I’m not capable of critical thinking for reading a chart. But I will throw him an olive branch. At least the pilot is being honest. Brutally honest. Lol.
733ZY busts the class D airspace , gets a controller who sounded like he would have let it go originally, then chews out the controller for not responding to him quick enough as a defense for busting said airspace.... lol... not surprising the controller got really quiet then told him to have a pen ready! Surprised he didn't tell him where to stick the pen...
yelling at someone when they have clearly made a mistake and are flustered does not help. Furthermore that guy lied his ass off about not having a pen. He could save the number in his phone or any other way.
That controller at San Carlos was full of himself. "ThEy'Re PuBlIsHeD pRoCeDuReS!" No they are not. Those were are noise abatement procedures which unless they're put in the AFD are VOLUNTARY. STILL, to his credit, it is a best practice for the PIC to understand LAO especially in complex airspaces.
Years ago, when I was way, way younger, even though I was afraid to fly, I decided I wanted to learn how to fly. On my day off I drove to my local small airport who offered flying lessons. The wind was really whipping around so the flight instructor who was going to take me up for a test flight cancelled and told me I'd have to reschedule. I got switched to graveyard shift a week later and decided not to pursue my flying dreams, plus I realized how expensive it would be even if I did get a pilot's license. This video makes me happier now that I didn't. I presume that the ATC is considered the "boss" in these types of situations, but some sure sound mean and angry. 😒
Some great examples of Controllers 'venting' on the frequency instead of just doing their jobs... Most of these issues need to be handled 'off line' with a phone call or just file a deviation and let that sort it out. The last thing a disoriented pilot needs is an argument/chastisement on the frequency. meh .
I disagree, that one guy was not paying attention during the taxi and blundered onto the runway and then went the wrong way AGAIN. Any ATC would go mad at that. Runway incursions are very serious and that pilot sounded completely lost and was a hazard. Next the pilot of the first incident is just so arrogant. Doesn't even know the published departure out of that airport. Just wants to point the plane 114 degrees and blast off! All while in that busy Bay Area airspace!
The first pilot is indian guy. I can tell that by his accent 😂 he is flying like how we drive car in india. Just show the dest address to a random guy on road and ask for directions 😂😂
Not a great number but there are pilots that forget that a controller can get maxed out as well, and they just don't have the capacity or time to do anything other than there primary task.
I don't know much about aviation yet but the 2nd one seemed like it escalated too fast on the ATC side unless there was dialog previously that wasn't part of this video
There was. Including the controller indeed giving the heading he says he would only give with a gun against his head. Unfortunately this video cuts that. (Maybe because then it would not pass as "destroying incompetent pilot")
Not surprisingly, the guy who takes off the wrong runway, doesn't know how to use his radio equipment, also doesn't have a writing instrument on board.
Reminds me of the 1st time I flew into the Pheonix area VFR 30 years ago from Texas. The controller told me to fly direct to Camelback and follow the road north to Scottsdale. I had no idea what a camelback was, and I told him I had a VFR chart but no roadmaps. He was such an irritable, put-out, & condescending ahole that I have never forgotten the guy. Locals later told me he was famous for being that way. Up until then, in the prior 20 years of my private pilot flying, all atc guys had been very helpful. I think it changed about then.
That one that begins at 5:30 - oh my, you missed the best parts of that recording! It was seriously, like 20 minutes of the absolutely hilarious buffoonery of that pilot trying to depart that airfield with him screwing up one thing after another after another! If he had any pilot’s introspection whatsoever then he would have turned his airplane around, returned to the ramp, and simply not flown that day. His flight absolutely fell apart before he ever even got into the air!
As a current ATC, it goes both ways. I will say that there a lot of ATC's that go 0-100 way too fast and for little reason. However I will also say that current ATC's are horrendously overworked, there are facilities all over America that are so severely understaffed that controllers aren't getting lunch or even piss breaks and the TMU (traffic management unit) is issuing delays due to staffing. Anyone is easily set off when they've been on position for hours and hours on end without so much as a piss break. On top of that, pilots are often not held accountable for their mistakes while ATC is. A perfect example is runway incursions. The pilot gets a pilot deviation and most likely never even hears from the FAA, while ATC sends in the tapes, the ATC gets questioned by the FAA and most likely their own facility QA and sometimes even blamed for the pilots mistake even though the ATC said to hold short and a pilot readback to hold short but still didn't. All this to say; it goes both ways
Somebody tell him non-pilot what it means when the ATC says “I have a number for you to copy” what’s that I assume he’s going to be in trouble but what is the number for
It means to call the air traffic controller (in this case tower controller) at the earliest opportunity. They are going to give you a stern lecture, and depending on the seriousness of the infraction, it may be reported to the FAA. It is mandatory that you call and have that conversation, even if they go out of their way to be polite and make it sound like a request. Failure to call will DEFINITELY get you reported to the FAA.
@@briancasey7693 Not sure if you can keep it a secret these days :) Planes have owners and plane renters have to have their papers checked! (insurance thing and FBOs not letting random characters fly planes)
I have a lot of respect for ATC. It's their job to keep traffic flowing WITHOUT incident or catastrophes. The first pilot is an example of an enabled, 'they'll do it for me' society today. Truly scary that he is allowed a pilot's license.
The problem is that flying in highly controlled airspace is very different than flying in almost non controlled airspace. If he flies somewhere in the Midwest on uncontrolled airports with one runway you don't do much of a departure planning. And unlike other pilots he was humble enough to admit that he didn't do his homework and asked.
You are aware that no one’s required to accept a departure procedure, right? He can absolutely say “they’ll do it for me” in this scenario if he wants. Not sure what you’re on about
He could load a SID from his FMS or have clearance give him a DP. Or tower could of just ran him out on altitudes and headings but that would get confusing for the guy controlling the next airspace.
Disagree. This "procedure" is not published in the AFD, so they are not OFFICIAL FAA procedures. All he had to do was say "departure to the south" and at best "I dont want to do any of those procedures and would like to fly on my own to the south please". The tower controller was quite unprofessional here.
Yes pilots make mistakes. They are not infallible. But these ATC examples show some controllers to be sanctimonious, unhelpful, confrontational, aggressive, impatient, and pointlessly dictatorial (never understood the "I have a number for you to copy" which is ridiculous and egotistical). Not wishing to bash US controllers as most of them are excellent, but this kind of confrontational controlling does not happen in Europe as ATCOs see themselves as helpers, not dictators.
You are wrong about "I have numbers for you to copy". It is not egotistical, it is required. When a controller notes an airspace deviation the FAA regulations require the controller to say "possible pilot deviation, I have a phone number for you to take down when you are able", and then give the pilot the number to the tower in order to have an initial conversation with the ATC supervisor once they have landed and can safely talk.
In India, it is well established that roads/traffic is chaotic with zero discipline and responsibility but on the contrary the airspace/RT discipline is amazing. Crisp Clear Concise. Its the other way around in US lol
Being held outside the delta for IFR traffic is the worst. Ya land and all you can do is 🤷♂️ when explaining to the chief pilot that you were held outside for 20 minutes messing up the rest of the schedule haha
I feel that the guy who was taxiing the wrong way. The situation was made worse by the controller. The pilot was already flustered and she just made it worse.
Listen to the whole recording of this. That guy crossed his assigned runway twice. Took him about a dozen transmissions to confirm his takeoff. This controller was a Saint.
Second one sounds more like an incompetent controller. Instead of ATC just saying what he needed the jetBlue plane to do he wastes time going on a long rant over the radio wasting both time and resources.
So, ATC wasting time being shocked and abusive, that they could have spent solving the problem? I understand that if you act like it's normal, pilots won't learn, but this is not the way.
I have been kind of situation in my early days of flying that I almost took off from the wrong runway. I realize before getting airborne and aborted takeoff I mentioned the situation that made it happen and ATC was so polite they didn’t make me write those phone numbers which I never wanted to hear in my piloting career.
You have good taste in planes. If you like the 310, you might want to have a look at the Piper Seneca and the Beechcraft Baron. In my opinion, they're both even easier on the eye than the 310.
4:50 man its a kid who never been through this before don't railroad him. I workat a Grocery store as a meat manager and butcher. People come up asking innocent questions but the b'ys in the meat room both being there all day and also answering the same question 50 times a day they get a bit short and crooked with the customers. The same principle applies to ATC. You get used to the way things work in thine airport and pity to those who don't already know. And then they get holier than thou for you not knowing what they only know because they see it 40 hours a week
The speed issue could have just been resolved by instructing the plane to maintain at least 230 and advise for future travel. Being smart or trying to be sarcastic on frequency just pollutes their airwaves and hurts everyones ability to focus on navigating
I feel bad about the pilot who accidentally made wrong turns. They didn’t deserve to be screamed at. They were respectful, apologized, and they tried asking specific questions to fix their mistakes. Yes the controller was frustrated, but there was no reason for the screaming. There’s been several catastrophic events related to people being belittled or humiliated.
Air controllers need to be like nurses; able to communicate clearly and be firm with their instructions but also be approachable. If someone has made a mistake, giving them attitude isn't going to help anyone.
Being asked to find out departure procedures from some guys at the cafe sounds really unprofessional to me... why arent they published somewhere obvious on a website somewhere?
I'm not a pilot but from what I have gathered watching pilots break these kinds of videos down they have to call and discuss what happened so it presumably does not happen again and can potentially receive some sort of punishment depending on the situation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
This isn't really air traffic controllers destroying incompetent pilots, it's douchebag air traffic controllers doing their best Cartman impression: "respect my authoritaaay!" Most of them are probably frustrated wannabe pilots who couldn't afford to pay for the training, and they want to throw out their power around like a mall cop.
ATCs are in absolutely no position to grade pilot's competencies. They are neither pilots nor CFIs. A lot of them wish to be able to fly, but never could and remain stocked on the ground dreaming the dream of flying when the others get to fly and live the dream. And as the old expression says, "it's easier said than done".
Theres actually a good amount of ATC's who do have their pilots license. Also, unlike the pilot, an ATC is juggling several aircraft instead of one. As you say, easier said than done. That said, as an ATC myself, most of the clips in this video make ATC look back
If you fly long enough and deal with ATC, This kind of SHIT is going to happen..... As sure as breathing air.... Most of the time, it is NO big Deal, just egos....I've 'called the number' twice and it wasn't shit. If you are a pilot, my best advise is to NOT be intimidated by ATC.. Don't be rude to them, but don't be intimidated. THEY do NOT have the final say.
I’m going to be honest. I’ve been flying a long time, but never in that San Carlos area. Out of curiosity, I looked for those “publications” of these routes the Tower controller told that Twin Cessna pilot about. I couldn’t find ANYTHING. Nothing on the sectional, VFR Flyway, A/FD, NOTHING. I even checked to see if it was a helicopter routing that they just expect fixed wing pilots to know about. If I were to fly there, not only would I not know these routes, either, but I wouldn’t even know I’m supposed to “talk to the pilots in the cafe” to get briefed on it. I would’ve just asked for a departure and expected to get departure instructions. Controller was a jerk on that one and I GUARANTEE I would’ve shut down and given him a call to tell him. I’ve done it before.
San Carlos controller refers to 'transitions' and 'departures', but these are more accurately: voluntary noise abatement procedures. Mentioned in audio recording as Coyote Hills, Woodside, and Hillsdale, the noise abatement procedures are described on flysmcfriendly, (under preferred-flight-procedures-san-carlos-airport). They are published on San Carlos airport's website, flysmcfriendly as, Preferred Flight Procedures. The Chart Supplement (A/FD) listing for SQL mentions these noise abatement procedures: NOISE: Noise sensitive areas south through northeast of arpt. For noise abatement procedures ctc arpt manager. Although local pilots (in the cafe) or the FBO might help with information about voluntary noise abatement procedures, the typical 'online' source is ... the airport's website. ATC could have offered, "If unfamiliar with local noise abatement procedures, they're published on the airport's website, flysmcfriendly." That might have been more consistent with the airport's tag line: "Taking a Friendly Approach to Our Airports’ Operations" -Maybe the controller does not know where San Carlos' noise abatement procedures are published online? (and by the way, as well as text descriptions, their video links are excellent e.g. Hillsdale departure rwy 30) -Also, it is unclear whether ATC is aware that noise abatement procedures remain, voluntary? These procedures show pilots how to be courteous, and mitigate aircraft noise disturbances for local residents. But ATC cannot insist that a VFR departure fly a 'voluntary' noise abatement procedure. ATC would need to know direction of flight/how the pilot would like to depart class D. As for how this pilot navigates complex airspace, VFR, after departing SQL class D, the concern appeared .. valid.
After committing a pilot deviation and laughing about it the pilot says he cannot write down the phone number because he does not have a pen. A pen is a basic tool for all pílots especially GA pilots. How disrespectful of this guy.
“I don’t have a pen”. I’m using that one lol
Haha that actually is a good excuse 😂
@@Flight_Follower good thing we don’t use our names in the plane. Was never in there anyways.
😂🙈
Takes off from the wrong runway
Gets scolded for possible pilot deviation
Doesn't have a pen to copy the phone number
Still flying today
I'll be back, that s*** is Gold!!!
I don't have a pen, I'll be back... 🤣🤣🤣
Calling ATC "buddy" is an easy way to find out the Tower's phone number
What does this mean? What happens when they give their phone number to you? I'm not a pilot
is that a deviation though
@milanciga
You get a number to call the tower, and you end up usually talking to a supervisor who asks you what happened to (in this case) make you enter the airspace (or whatever other rule you broke that caused the phone call).
In this case, the pilot was kind of a dick instead of just saying sorry so that will also be taken into account.
Then they file a report with the FAA
You might get a black mark on your cert or you might not. Depends on what you did and how you handled it.
@@wilthomas Yeah. Failure to follow... ANY flight plan is a deviation because youre already not Navigating. A flight plan is required to take off.
In some of these examples, ATC participates a lot in making a simple situation worse. Once they start yelling and acting entitled and childish about an infraction, the situation is bound to get worse. A lot of these controllers should be dropping fries rather than flaunting their perceived authority. In 30 years of flying, I've definitely come across my share of bad ones and your only defense is to shut up and say as little as possible as they have their little melt-downs.
Sometimes, stress gets the better of them i believe
That makes you an entitled brat congratulation. Pilots are not gods and it's a team effort with ATC.
Well said
Are you kidding me mate.
Do you think the controller was nasty?
Who gave this guy a twin endorsement, actually who gave him a licence?
He is not at the bus station.
Seriously
When you are responsible for the safety of thousands of lives each day, and an entitled douchebag, driven by sheer incompetence is unable to adhere to basic safety procedures, might cause an accident resulting in collateral damage to others in a high-risk operational area.It is understandable, they come off as pissed off and and fed up you.
I find it astounding that, with your 30 years of flying experience, there seems to be a lack of respect for air traffic control (ATC). As, essentially, they hold your life in the palm of their hands, with as you put it "percieved ", authority.
San Carlos tower has it's own departure names that do not appear on the normal FAA sheets. You have to go talk to the guys at the Cafe to find out.
Thanks for the information!
Is it actually published anywhere a pilot not familiar with the airport would think to look? Quick check of ForeFlight revealed nothing about what the controller was going off about, obviously ForeFlight isn’t the be all end all resource but if this isn’t published as an official departure procedure I can’t imagine any reason for the controller to go off on a pilot like that for not knowing it. Even if it was a departure procedure those are generally only IFR, many VFR pilots probably aren’t checking for one and if they are they aren’t going out of their way in 99% of cases. Took me several minutes to find it knowing what I was looking for, nowhere on the page does it even have an FAA logo or anything to signify this is more official than a noise abatement procedure the county came up with. Like I am sorry but if I am departing from an unfamiliar airport I would not tolerate getting yelled at by the controller after admitting I am unfamiliar and requesting vectors all because I didn’t check the county website for a VFR departure procedure.
i agree with you. the controller could have been more polite in his tone.but when i fly out from an unfamiliar airport i get myself adequately briefed up about the SIDs and STARs atleast which i am expecting so that i do not waste the controller's precious time..
that guy just wanted a VFR departure, ATC was being a douche
Radar vector for VFR departure? That doesn’t sound right
The controller’s wife had just left him for a twin Cessna pilot 👨✈️🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️😆😎
Ahahahah 😂😂😂
...and she met that twin Cessna pilot at the airport cafe.
To help him with the departure procedures right? 😂
@@Flight_Follower More like the arrival procedures for a different type of run--way
He paid for her $10 hamburger. Well maybe they are $20 with inflation, yanno?😛
I flew commercial for 20 yrs and ATC has become less helpful and more authoritarian with a tendency unprofessionally quibble over everything. In my early days ATC and aircrew felt more like a team working together. Now it feels adversarial.
Is that because of contract towers?
under paid over worked and seriously abused also
They're trying to juggle multiple aircraft of various types and sizes in a restricted/small traffic area. It's not the job of the ATC to research your flight plan and choose what vector you want to take on your way to your destination.
THAT'S THE PILOT'S JOB. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, DON'T FLY.
Yeah good old times 20 years ago when we had much less safety regulations and planes were crashing left and right. But hey the ATC was more chill back then :^)
@@sarahkragness7138doesnt change the fact that their job is to support the pilots and not the other way round. P E R I O D!
"I don't have a pen"..... Riiiiiiiiiiiight......🤔
Yeah 😁
0:26 All of those procedures that ATC mentions are VOLUNTARY procedures not listed in any official FAA publication. The Airport Facility Directory only gives a number to call for information about noise abatement procedures. If they are that concerned about pilots following the voluntary noise abatement procedures, they could just put a note in the AFD directing the pilots to the airport website instead of suggesting that they call a phone number that probably would not even be answered after hours. The procure is voluntary and the pilot told him he wanted a 114 heading to Bakersfield. The only response from tower should have been "Fly 114 heading, cleared for takeoff" If that heading takes a VFR pilot into other airspace, the pilot himself is responsible for coordinating with the other facilities.
False. He mentioned bravo airspace which is absolutely controlled upwards of 10000ft down to surface. And they have named departure routes. If you are unable to look up your departures then you shouldn’t be flying.
@@aaronwalden5417he mentioned flying BELOW the bravo airspace. And no VFR departure procedures are published for San Carlos. The pilot was understandably confused because the controller was not clear as to what he was referring. He meant to say noise abatement procedures, but even those aren’t published where pilots can easily find them. The AFD simply says to contact the airport manager by phone to receive them. Controller was demanding that a pilot fly a VOLUNTARY procedure that isn’t published in the AFD, and then insults the pilot for not being able to find it. If I were the one paying $400+/hour for a twin Cessna to sit on the ground because of this horrible controller, I would be more than pissed.
@@aaronwalden5417MSL*
@@aaronwalden5417 What is false? If the VFR pilot transits the nearby class B airspace, the pilot himself is responsible for the class B clearance. The tower is only responsible for his own class D. The tower in this case is not part of the nearby class B, it is under it. The named departure routes are not published in any official FAA publication. They might as well be written on the bathroom mirror in lipstick.
@@aaronwalden5417 KSQL is weird, they have their own departure name that not publish anywhere but their website. it's probably not the guy home airport, and wouldn't of know unless he's hanging out at the cafe.
I was never comfortable talking on the radio which is one reason I gave up getting my license. I was about 20 years old at the time. I got yelled at one time myself when I was on a solo VFR flight. This was back before GPS and the plane I learned on had nothing but the basics, not even a transponder. I was never able to get a good handle on exactly how to judge my distance from the airport when contacting the tower. For example do I say I'm 5 miles out or 8 miles out or what. I was afraid I would give the wrong distance. The mistake I made was I contacted the tower and instead of saying my distance from the airport I told them I was over a particular landmark. That got me a very nasty sounding "I don't know were that is" remark from the tower. So I just made a guess and said I'm 10 miles south which got me a radar contact response back. I don't blame the guy but I felt about 2 inches tall after that. I made it as far as passing the written test, but on my final check ride from the head instructor I got nervous and got yelled at the during landing. I never went back and that was that. Just as well, flying is too expensive for the average person, especially being it was just going to be a hobby for me and not a job. Now days I just enjoy flight sim 2020. At least I didn't get a phone number to call. lol
This is a perfect example of why I never pursued my dream as a pilot. I realize that I would have done much worse than you, and harmed myself or others. Good for you for being self-aware.
I feel ya, and it takes guts to put that out there for all to see and know. The radio was always a bit much for me as well. Some of us are great at doing one thing at a time, but making sense of what's going on spatially with the radio communication happening so quickly, yea, scared the crap out of me too.
I've never flown but I really feel you on this. Even flying sims with public lobbies I usually go into private ones just to make sure I'm not in anyone else's way.
Sometimes I really wish there was a setting to like require a bit of simulated protocol in these games though; I feel like the sim environment would be perfect to build or restore confidence if only there were a way to practice it in there.
Honestly, that's too bad. We've all had moments of getting scolded on the radio as well as by a flight instructor and it's part of learning to fly. Not knowing how far you were exactly from an airport was also common back in the day before gps and is something you get better at judging with more time. You could have gotten past it if you continued to train. But being that you walked away , maybe it just wasn't for you.
>gets yelled at one time cuz too dumb to route study, bring paper maps.
>quits for life.
You were raised by a single mom or a sissy beta daddy.
I wonder how all those pilots before gps and all the tech gadgets got around
Surprise, surprise... It's San Carlos ATC. (The same ATC that got in trouble for argung with a student pilot flying with an FAA pilot examiner.) Those controllers all seem to think they're the re-incarnation of JFK's controllers. And it's a contract ATC, you'd think they'd be nicer...
No they're all bitter at the low pay of a contract tower while having to live in a super high cost of living area, with none of the benefits of government employment (pension, promotional ability, protection from firing etc).
@kewkabe Man, I thought slavery was outlawed! How do they force them to work there? I'd freaking quit. Seriously, if no one will work, they'll have to pay more. And just fyi, I've lived in Silicon Valley 50 years, and EVERYONE is underpaid. (Just ask them.) But we aren't all acting like jerks...
Actually everyone is overpaid, but your also taxed into oblivion. Hard to make headway when your net taxes exceed 50%.
San Carlos Airport pretty much killed my love for aviation about 20 yrs ago. Garbage controllers, crappy stuck up flight "instructors" at Diamond, outrageous fees, I just lost interest .
Nonsense how can someone who is rated to fly not know how to look up the departures. In this case at least, the ATC was correct.
I got a stern talking to by the Chief Pilot of my flight school after I disregarded a tower instruction to extend my upwind for an arriving A/C, I basically cut in front of him. Lucky I did not receive the phone number but I got a serious talking to and further instruction on departure procedures. After this I was seriously focussed on doing everything well and professionally, aced my flight tests including my intense IFR check ride....went off to Africa to fly bush planes...came close to a job but didn't pan out....back home I went up north and worked ramp for a year and a half and decided that I did not want to earn minimum wage for a few more years while I build time (I was late 30's then) so I abandoned my short lived career and started a new career....yet...I dream about flying again! It was extremely rewarding! I loved it but not for a career! Flying is a bug...if you get the bug, you never want to leave because it never leaves you!
Unless the pilot is flying IFR, he has no reason to look up published IFR departure routes. He is clearly flying VFR. This controller is way out of line in this situation.
Yeah!
I don't know Bakersfield, but I fly out of KRNT all the time. Due to all the Bravo (and other Delta) airspace all around us, there are clearly published procedures for VFR arrivals/departures. E.g. even if I ask to depart to the north (general direction), I'll get told to do either a Factoria or East Channel departure depending on which runway I'm departing on as the call back. I've heard a few times inbound aircraft reply with an "I'm not familiar with this airport" when given an approach (e.g. "make Kent arrival), though the controllers are pretty good about it when it happens. That said, I've never heard anyone try to depart and not understand a departure clearance.
@@hefeibao Where is that published? I've gone through every FAA resource I know and only see the instrument procedures.
@@mcrvids6860 You can Google "renton airport traffic patterns". This link will be there, or you can actually just go to www.rentonwa.gov/city_hall/public_works/renton_municipal_airport/information and click on "Click here for Pilot Information"
cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_7922657/File/City%20Hall/Public%20Works/Transportation%20Systems/Renton%20Municipal%20Airport/Airport%20Noise%20Abatement%20Procedures/Renton%20Airport_Pilot%20Info%202021_WEB.pdf
I'm in flight training right now in South Africa and when we fly out of the international airport here (Dawid stuurman intl airport in Port Elizabeth/Gqeberha) We have a set of departure/arrival VFR procedures to follow. Fortunately it (the information) is readily available to us, so its not a huge deal. Was scary the first two times, but after that, it's pretty routine. Fortunately for us, our flight school has its own runway, so we don't really fly out of the airport that often.@@hefeibao
"I don't have a pen," but I'll bet he had a phone with NOTES on it.
Some of these were just super unprofessional controllers. They have such an ego they don't realize they're actually endangering people by acting like that.
Which? All i hear is a pilot expecting a controller to babysit them instead of reading the requirements of the airport. He didn't make a mistake, he didn't even try.
Then an aircraft not flying the normal speed through the airspace. Then a pilot feeling entitled to enter controlled airspace without waiting. Sometimes you get to an approach point and need to do an orbit while waiting for a clearance.
Then a pilot not navigating correctly on the ground.
Then a pilot taking off in the opposite direction.
Do you think pilots are allowed to do whatever they want and it's up to controllers to sort everything out for them?
Flying is really not that hard and there's absolutely no excuses here.
Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but expecting vectors because you can't be bothered reading information is not a mistake. Entering controlled airspace without clearance because the controller didn't answer you is not a mistake. Those are choices pilots made.
Not being sure of where you're taxiing and taxiing anyway is not a mistake either.
Would you ever make excuses for a truck driver behaving this way?
@@chrisnoname2725I feel bad about the pilot who accidentally made wrong turns. They didn’t deserve to be screamed at. They were respectful, apologized, and they tried asking specific questions to fix their mistakes. Yes the controller was frustrated, but there was no reason for the screaming. There’s been several catastrophic events related to people being belittled or humiliated.
@@JasmineS-gc6tg It is not respectful to be operating an aircraft when you are not in a fit state to be doing so or not competent.
That pilot needed to be taxied to parking and his conduct investigated. If he is unable to safely navigate around an airport that's a concern. What if he then takes off and is incapable of flying the standard departure too?
If he was unable to see the intersection markers he needed to stop and inform ground that he was unable to navigate around the airport.
There is more to being respectful than just apologizing.
Would you excuse a truck driver for going the wrong way in a one way street or going through a red light in fog, or would you think they're an idiot for not being able to safely do their job?
@chrisnoname2725 Or you dont snap at people who make mistakes and make the situation worse. The pilot is clearly turned around a bit already, as happens with everyone, and a person shouting in their ear isn't likely to help get them back on track; it'll just stress them out more and lead to more problems. Learn to talk to people and you'll get a better response.
I've seen countless people that turn the wrong way on one way streets and they know they messed up. Getting out and shouting at them isn't going to solve anything quicker. It's just you being an asshole and shows you dont deserve any grace when you inevitability mess up.
@@chrisnoname2725 Yes actually, I would excuse a truck driver who made a wrong turn because last time I checked, nobody is perfect. But maybe you think you are based off the way you’re acting? I actually lost a family member due to a truck accidentally crossing the median and I understand that it was unintentional and the out of state driver apologized. Do you drive? Because I guarantee you everyone has made a wrong turn, or missed an exit at some point in their life. Would someone missing an exit make them incompetent? No. The only person who sounds incompetent here is you. There are reports every single day, all around the world of pilots making mistakes at airports, especially if the pilot is unfamiliar with the territory and some older designed airports can be very difficult to navigate. The pilot apologized and was respectful and that controller quite literally screamed at him. Yes the pilot was in the wrong but those actions from the controller could have made the situation worse. So technically the controller was in the wrong too. And I imagine if there was an accident, they both probably would have lost their jobs. There’s a right and wrong way to provide corrections. When they act like that, sometimes pilots refrain from asking questions because they don’t want to be humiliated. Sometimes signs are missed or misunderstood and rather than screaming in everyone’s ear, they could have said “sir you are going the wrong way please turn around and ask questions if you’re confused.” Have you heard about the near collision a few years back at JFK airport in NY? A plane accidentally missed a turn and both planes came within feet of each other. The controller noticed and they were thankfully able to prevent the collision but the controller knew the one plane accidentally made a wrong turn and he didn’t scold them. He respectfully asked them to copy a number from possible pilot deviation.
judge judy yelling at 57 delta bravo, lol.
Is that a brooklyn 99 reference?!
haha, i've heard i show watch that show but no. i just thought that was the vibe given off by that controller! @@Flight_Follower
I am sure the pilot didn’t enjoy the vibe that much
I kind of felt bad for the guy getting yelled at for taxing the wrong way.
Me too :( he was so respectful and he apologized. He just made a mistake and he even made sure to ask specific questions about the turn so he didn’t cause any more issues.
When at a new airport I request progressive taxi instructions and they help turn by turn
When at a new airport I request progressive taxi instructions and they help turn by turn
If you hear the whole interaction, it makes sense. The ATC had to spend a lot of time talking to him when he was in the parking area just trying to get him to give a proper read back. The pilot was woefully under prepared for his departure. After he finally gets the proper read back he then struggles just to taxi and the ATC gets super frustrated at that point
57DA was at my home airpod KOWD. I was the one who sent this audio in originally haha! I recommend you watch this whole thing. Also this controller is a man, not a woman and gets very mad when people call him "ma'am" lol
Haha thats new information for us,sir
Thank you ☺️
U meant 57DB right?
yeah 57db @@Flight_Follower
That chick needed a spa day
We had a controller at our airport that was a woman that sounded like a man. She would get so mad when they called her sir. 😆
@@Flight_Follower oh oww, someone is getting a number to call :P
Saw a different video on the incident with 601AD (shown at 3:33) and despite his assertion that no controller would give someone that heading, he VERY clearly did. So in this case, rather than “destroying an incompetent pilot”, he just looked like a jerk once you go back and listen to the whole incident.
Yeah i know the controller did infact say the wrong heading.. but still lil situational awareness from the pilots would have helped
I'm glad I checked the comments because I did not expect to see this. You get so used to ATCs being well on top of their game that they wouldn't make such a simple mistake like accidentally sending someone south instead of west and yet apparently it happened. Do you know where I can find the full video of this flight?
@@Flight_Follower Yeah buddy that's a real far cry from dEsTrOyInG iNcOmPeTeNt PiLoTs
@@Flight_Follower Listening to the readback is part of ATCs job. Listening to the readback would also have helped (maybe he would have realized earlier and be more humble because he was the one fucking up, pilot did what he was directed to do by ATC).
What an arrogant controller the first one is. „Are you a Diamond“? „I expect more from a Cessna?“ Well, I fly Diamond aircraft and I always know my airspace. Though sometimes I also just state where I want to go so that ATC can choose how they want me to leave the CTR - as they sees fit. However, if they ask you for your departure route you should always know your preferred one. No matter if it‘s a Diamond, Cessna, Piper or an Airbus.
It's not arrogant. It's called being a competent pilot. FILE A FLIGHT PLAN with appropriate transitions and understand the airspace. The pilot should be reviewing charts and PLANNING his/her flight, not just "I'm going to Bakersfield, give me vectors". It is NOT ATC's responsibility to hold a pilot's hand (unless an emergency/mayday situation). It is the PILOT's responsibility to KNOW where he/she is going and how to get there. Departure? Transition? Altitude? etc It is ATC's responsibility to maintain aircraft separation and they don't have time to baby a pilot not adhering to standard operating procedures.
@@WingITFlightSim OK. And that has exactly WHAT to do with the kind of plane you fly? Why does the controller expect more from a Cessna? Try reading again: I fly Diamond aircraft (Dimona, DA20, DA40) and I always know my airspace. I expect more from any regardless of their type of plane.
You're butt hurt because he dissed Diamond pilots?? LMAO!! Get used to that buddy!
Tbh the guy didn't even prepare his charts...what do you expect...
The first example, N414TM, gets a pass. The "procedures" that San Carlos TWR mentions are voluntary procedures that aren't published publicly and are realistically only available to locals. The party that is actually incompetent here is San Carlos TWR for being an asshole to a transient who couldn't know better, and better yet, that tower has a track record of being brash to otherwise well-meaning pilots.
Totally agree
Yeah the pilot is admitting he needs assistance and is willing to do whichever route is easiest for the tower. Not sure what else he can do at that point, instead of solving the issue the tower got on some weird high horse
Hold my hand. I’m not capable of critical thinking for reading a chart. But I will throw him an olive branch. At least the pilot is being honest. Brutally honest. Lol.
@@PaulPilot-ke1if So you’re criticizing someone asking for help before entering an active airspace?
@@PaulPilot-ke1if did you even read the above comment?
733ZY busts the class D airspace , gets a controller who sounded like he would have let it go originally, then chews out the controller for not responding to him quick enough as a defense for busting said airspace.... lol... not surprising the controller got really quiet then told him to have a pen ready! Surprised he didn't tell him where to stick the pen...
This is what it sounds like when you have two potentially pretentious individuals trying to communicate.
Yeah can not be good for flight safety
This is what I heard from my background as a FSX Pilot: Roger Rodger, Whats your vector Victor, Over Oveur.
yelling at someone when they have clearly made a mistake and are flustered does not help. Furthermore that guy lied his ass off about not having a pen. He could save the number in his phone or any other way.
He didn't have a phone
@@LuizDahoraavida thats why i said any other way... i don't know anyone who doesn't fly with a pencil / pen and paper
@@spaghetti9845 he didn't have any other way either
@@spaghetti9845 Well now you have heard everything. Merry Xmas!
That controller at San Carlos was full of himself. "ThEy'Re PuBlIsHeD pRoCeDuReS!" No they are not. Those were are noise abatement procedures which unless they're put in the AFD are VOLUNTARY.
STILL, to his credit, it is a best practice for the PIC to understand LAO especially in complex airspaces.
Years ago, when I was way, way younger, even though I was afraid to fly, I decided I wanted to learn how to fly. On my day off I drove to my local small airport who offered flying lessons. The wind was really whipping around so the flight instructor who was going to take me up for a test flight cancelled and told me I'd have to reschedule. I got switched to graveyard shift a week later and decided not to pursue my flying dreams, plus I realized how expensive it would be even if I did get a pilot's license. This video makes me happier now that I didn't. I presume that the ATC is considered the "boss" in these types of situations, but some sure sound mean and angry. 😒
Some great examples of Controllers 'venting' on the frequency instead of just doing their jobs... Most of these issues need to be handled 'off line' with a phone call or just file a deviation and let that sort it out. The last thing a disoriented pilot needs is an argument/chastisement on the frequency. meh .
Exactly
I disagree, that one guy was not paying attention during the taxi and blundered onto the runway and then went the wrong way AGAIN. Any ATC would go mad at that. Runway incursions are very serious and that pilot sounded completely lost and was a hazard.
Next the pilot of the first incident is just so arrogant. Doesn't even know the published departure out of that airport. Just wants to point the plane 114 degrees and blast off! All while in that busy Bay Area airspace!
The first pilot is indian guy. I can tell that by his accent 😂 he is flying like how we drive car in india. Just show the dest address to a random guy on road and ask for directions 😂😂
Oopooo... sophisticated airspace...
Not a great number but there are pilots that forget that a controller can get maxed out as well, and they just don't have the capacity or time to do anything other than there primary task.
Yeah its a very hectic and stressful job tbh
I don't have a pen, will be back in a couple of hours
These controllers don’t realize you can really hurt these pilots’ feelings 💀
So many passive aggressive pilots and ATC 😂
ATC can help or they can make it worse. Thank god most are great.
Yeah and extremely patient! ❤️❤️
I don't know much about aviation yet but the 2nd one seemed like it escalated too fast on the ATC side unless there was dialog previously that wasn't part of this video
Agreed
There was. Including the controller indeed giving the heading he says he would only give with a gun against his head. Unfortunately this video cuts that. (Maybe because then it would not pass as "destroying incompetent pilot")
Not surprisingly, the guy who takes off the wrong runway, doesn't know how to use his radio equipment, also doesn't have a writing instrument on board.
Not having a pen was probably an excuse
He also Doesnt know how to use his DG either.
Reminds me of the 1st time I flew into the Pheonix area VFR 30 years ago from Texas. The controller told me to fly direct to Camelback and follow the road north to Scottsdale. I had no idea what a camelback was, and I told him I had a VFR chart but no roadmaps. He was such an irritable, put-out, & condescending ahole that I have never forgotten the guy. Locals later told me he was famous for being that way. Up until then, in the prior 20 years of my private pilot flying, all atc guys had been very helpful. I think it changed about then.
Why do SO MANY incompetent pilots sound like the kind of pilot that would make controlled impact into tall metal structures?
Unable ! Oh and also unable to call the number too.
What's the phone number comment about? did the pilot get himself into trouble?
That one that begins at 5:30 - oh my, you missed the best parts of that recording! It was seriously, like 20 minutes of the absolutely hilarious buffoonery of that pilot trying to depart that airfield with him screwing up one thing after another after another! If he had any pilot’s introspection whatsoever then he would have turned his airplane around, returned to the ramp, and simply not flown that day. His flight absolutely fell apart before he ever even got into the air!
As a current ATC, it goes both ways. I will say that there a lot of ATC's that go 0-100 way too fast and for little reason. However I will also say that current ATC's are horrendously overworked, there are facilities all over America that are so severely understaffed that controllers aren't getting lunch or even piss breaks and the TMU (traffic management unit) is issuing delays due to staffing. Anyone is easily set off when they've been on position for hours and hours on end without so much as a piss break. On top of that, pilots are often not held accountable for their mistakes while ATC is. A perfect example is runway incursions. The pilot gets a pilot deviation and most likely never even hears from the FAA, while ATC sends in the tapes, the ATC gets questioned by the FAA and most likely their own facility QA and sometimes even blamed for the pilots mistake even though the ATC said to hold short and a pilot readback to hold short but still didn't. All this to say; it goes both ways
What happens if you don't call "the number"?
They know your plane's registration so I assume they would contact the owner and find out who was flying when the incident happened.
@@bitstream1thank you. :)
Somebody tell him non-pilot what it means when the ATC says “I have a number for you to copy” what’s that I assume he’s going to be in trouble but what is the number for
It means to call the air traffic controller (in this case tower controller) at the earliest opportunity. They are going to give you a stern lecture, and depending on the seriousness of the infraction, it may be reported to the FAA. It is mandatory that you call and have that conversation, even if they go out of their way to be polite and make it sound like a request. Failure to call will DEFINITELY get you reported to the FAA.
Point made, I haven’t been here in years, and then they’re gonna tell you to brush up
fair enough!
If I were the pilot in the second scenario, I would decline the offer for a phone number and be asking for his exact location for a conversation.
Thats a good way to lose your license i guess
If you don’t call they don’t KNOW who was flying the plane ,
@@briancasey7693 Not sure if you can keep it a secret these days :) Planes have owners and plane renters have to have their papers checked! (insurance thing and FBOs not letting random characters fly planes)
@@briancasey7693I feel like they could find out.
We're lucky in Australia, no Bravo airspace. We have A, C, D, E and G, but no B! Free style flying! 😊
I have a lot of respect for ATC. It's their job to keep traffic flowing WITHOUT incident or catastrophes. The first pilot is an example of an enabled, 'they'll do it for me' society today. Truly scary that he is allowed a pilot's license.
The problem is that flying in highly controlled airspace is very different than flying in almost non controlled airspace. If he flies somewhere in the Midwest on uncontrolled airports with one runway you don't do much of a departure planning. And unlike other pilots he was humble enough to admit that he didn't do his homework and asked.
You are aware that no one’s required to accept a departure procedure, right? He can absolutely say “they’ll do it for me” in this scenario if he wants. Not sure what you’re on about
He could load a SID from his FMS or have clearance give him a DP. Or tower could of just ran him out on altitudes and headings but that would get confusing for the guy controlling the next airspace.
Disagree. This "procedure" is not published in the AFD, so they are not OFFICIAL FAA procedures. All he had to do was say "departure to the south" and at best "I dont want to do any of those procedures and would like to fly on my own to the south please". The tower controller was quite unprofessional here.
@@MrXtachx That controller at San Carlos is a piece of work.
Why the controllers ask to copy the phone number?
So that the pilots can call after landing
@@Flight_Follower Thanks for your reply. But we they want to call?
@@szervoszto bitch about it over the phone
@@szervosz To go on a date!
lol IFR standard departure procedure. Guh. Guy has an MEL too.
😄
"I dont have a pen" So you dont have a phone or tablet either? sure thing buddy
“You wanna play games with me?” - sounds like a Jerky Boys call
Yes pilots make mistakes. They are not infallible. But these ATC examples show some controllers to be sanctimonious, unhelpful, confrontational, aggressive, impatient, and pointlessly dictatorial (never understood the "I have a number for you to copy" which is ridiculous and egotistical). Not wishing to bash US controllers as most of them are excellent, but this kind of confrontational controlling does not happen in Europe as ATCOs see themselves as helpers, not dictators.
I think their individual personality and ability to deal with with stress has a lot to do with it
You are wrong about "I have numbers for you to copy". It is not egotistical, it is required. When a controller notes an airspace deviation the FAA regulations require the controller to say "possible pilot deviation, I have a phone number for you to take down when you are able", and then give the pilot the number to the tower in order to have an initial conversation with the ATC supervisor once they have landed and can safely talk.
"XXX tower, inappropriate communication disregarded, YYY." Just keep saying that every time they are inappropriate. Let 'em pull the tapes.
In India, it is well established that roads/traffic is chaotic with zero discipline and responsibility but on the contrary the airspace/RT discipline is amazing. Crisp Clear Concise. Its the other way around in US lol
It seems like ATC telling pilots they have a phone number to call is the formal way of saying you're in deep shit buddy
Being held outside the delta for IFR traffic is the worst. Ya land and all you can do is 🤷♂️ when explaining to the chief pilot that you were held outside for 20 minutes messing up the rest of the schedule haha
Then file IFR
@@BillPalmer I’m not Instrument rated
@@justinsmarttv You have a chief pilot and are flying a schedule , but no instrument rating yet?
cant read a chart. has a twin engine license. allegedly
I feel that the guy who was taxiing the wrong way. The situation was made worse by the controller. The pilot was already flustered and she just made it worse.
Exactly
@@Flight_Follower you say "exactly", yet you named the title "Controllers Destroy INCOMPETENT Pilots" doen't make sense, now does it..?
Hahaha the title of our videos doesn’t necessarily express our opinions!
And there are literally two creators who work on this channel.. so you understand.. we are not always on the same page 😂
Listen to the whole recording of this. That guy crossed his assigned runway twice. Took him about a dozen transmissions to confirm his takeoff. This controller was a Saint.
I see harrison ford bought a Cirrus 57DB !
When a 7/11 employee flies
hahahahha 2:08 is my airport. If you need more content let me know.
'I dont have a pen!!"
Second one sounds more like an incompetent controller. Instead of ATC just saying what he needed the jetBlue plane to do he wastes time going on a long rant over the radio wasting both time and resources.
So, ATC wasting time being shocked and abusive, that they could have spent solving the problem? I understand that if you act like it's normal, pilots won't learn, but this is not the way.
4:48 hell is quagmire saying
Just once I would like to hear,"tower,contact speedbird 1234 for a possible ATC violation,copy when ready to take down the number."
I have been kind of situation in my early days of flying that I almost took off from the wrong runway. I realize before getting airborne and aborted takeoff I mentioned the situation that made it happen and ATC was so polite they didn’t make me write those phone numbers which I never wanted to hear in my piloting career.
That twin engine prop plane is gorgeous, although I don't know what make and model it is.
Cessna 310
You have good taste in planes. If you like the 310, you might want to have a look at the Piper Seneca and the Beechcraft Baron. In my opinion, they're both even easier on the eye than the 310.
@@davidbrayshaw3529]😊
@davidbrayshaw3529 I agree and I think the Baron is the best looking airplane ever made.
@@thejerseyj5479 Well, you started it! The DC 3 is the best looking plane ever made!
This could be an SNL skit, lol.
True 😄
4:50 man its a kid who never been through this before don't railroad him. I workat a Grocery store as a meat manager and butcher. People come up asking innocent questions but the b'ys in the meat room both being there all day and also answering the same question 50 times a day they get a bit short and crooked with the customers.
The same principle applies to ATC. You get used to the way things work in thine airport and pity to those who don't already know. And then they get holier than thou for you not knowing what they only know because they see it 40 hours a week
The speed issue could have just been resolved by instructing the plane to maintain at least 230 and advise for future travel. Being smart or trying to be sarcastic on frequency just pollutes their airwaves and hurts everyones ability to focus on navigating
Was that first ATC being a dink to the Twin Cessna pilot?
I feel bad about the pilot who accidentally made wrong turns. They didn’t deserve to be screamed at. They were respectful, apologized, and they tried asking specific questions to fix their mistakes. Yes the controller was frustrated, but there was no reason for the screaming. There’s been several catastrophic events related to people being belittled or humiliated.
Air controllers need to be like nurses; able to communicate clearly and be firm with their instructions but also be approachable. If someone has made a mistake, giving them attitude isn't going to help anyone.
Being asked to find out departure procedures from some guys at the cafe sounds really unprofessional to me... why arent they published somewhere obvious on a website somewhere?
Being a controller is one shitty job. Can’t pay me enough to be one.
Can't agree
What does it mean when an ATC tells a pilot to take down a phone number (after they've screwed up something)?
Just a regulation in case of violation
I'm not a pilot but from what I have gathered watching pilots break these kinds of videos down they have to call and discuss what happened so it presumably does not happen again and can potentially receive some sort of punishment depending on the situation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
Yeah spot on!
last one is my home airport lol
you can take off from the wrong runway as often as you'd like as long as you leave your pen at home!
Easiest thing to do is just get in the truck and go. We could have been there by now
Yeah the truck is a great alternative to keep in mind if the IMSAFE check doesn;t work out (fit to fly self test)
What's the chances that the last one is 310 Pilot's old plane?
Good on You Air Controller 🤜🤛. They depend on you & you all do a great JoB. 🤙
This isn't really air traffic controllers destroying incompetent pilots, it's douchebag air traffic controllers doing their best Cartman impression: "respect my authoritaaay!" Most of them are probably frustrated wannabe pilots who couldn't afford to pay for the training, and they want to throw out their power around like a mall cop.
Do you know, I feel a bit sorry for the first guy. He’s only asking the ATC for help and I don’t know why that ATC is being so rude.
What kinda dipsh flies with no ink pen or pencil?
ATCs are in absolutely no position to grade pilot's competencies. They are neither pilots nor CFIs. A lot of them wish to be able to fly, but never could and remain stocked on the ground dreaming the dream of flying when the others get to fly and live the dream. And as the old expression says, "it's easier said than done".
Theres actually a good amount of ATC's who do have their pilots license. Also, unlike the pilot, an ATC is juggling several aircraft instead of one. As you say, easier said than done. That said, as an ATC myself, most of the clips in this video make ATC look back
If you fly long enough and deal with ATC, This kind of SHIT is going to happen..... As sure as breathing air.... Most of the time, it is NO big Deal, just egos....I've 'called the number' twice and it wasn't shit. If you are a pilot, my best advise is to NOT be intimidated by ATC.. Don't be rude to them, but don't be intimidated. THEY do NOT have the final say.
The second one the incompetent is the atc. just tell the speed you want them to go. simple...
More like jackass controllers being obnoxious
I’m going to be honest. I’ve been flying a long time, but never in that San Carlos area. Out of curiosity, I looked for those “publications” of these routes the Tower controller told that Twin Cessna pilot about. I couldn’t find ANYTHING. Nothing on the sectional, VFR Flyway, A/FD, NOTHING. I even checked to see if it was a helicopter routing that they just expect fixed wing pilots to know about. If I were to fly there, not only would I not know these routes, either, but I wouldn’t even know I’m supposed to “talk to the pilots in the cafe” to get briefed on it. I would’ve just asked for a departure and expected to get departure instructions. Controller was a jerk on that one and I GUARANTEE I would’ve shut down and given him a call to tell him. I’ve done it before.
San Carlos controller refers to 'transitions' and 'departures', but these are more accurately: voluntary noise abatement procedures.
Mentioned in audio recording as Coyote Hills, Woodside, and Hillsdale, the noise abatement procedures are described on flysmcfriendly,
(under preferred-flight-procedures-san-carlos-airport).
They are published on San Carlos airport's website, flysmcfriendly as, Preferred Flight Procedures.
The Chart Supplement (A/FD) listing for SQL mentions these noise abatement procedures:
NOISE: Noise sensitive areas south through northeast of arpt. For noise abatement procedures ctc arpt manager.
Although local pilots (in the cafe) or the FBO might help with information about voluntary noise abatement procedures, the typical 'online' source is ... the airport's website.
ATC could have offered, "If unfamiliar with local noise abatement procedures, they're published on the airport's website, flysmcfriendly."
That might have been more consistent with the airport's tag line: "Taking a Friendly Approach to Our Airports’ Operations"
-Maybe the controller does not know where San Carlos' noise abatement procedures are published online?
(and by the way, as well as text descriptions, their video links are excellent e.g. Hillsdale departure rwy 30)
-Also, it is unclear whether ATC is aware that noise abatement procedures remain, voluntary?
These procedures show pilots how to be courteous, and mitigate aircraft noise disturbances for local residents.
But ATC cannot insist that a VFR departure fly a 'voluntary' noise abatement procedure.
ATC would need to know direction of flight/how the pilot would like to depart class D.
As for how this pilot navigates complex airspace, VFR, after departing SQL class D, the concern appeared .. valid.
If atc talks to a cute sounding female pilot is it okay to give her a number to call
...and these people are actually intelligent to get through flight school???
American ATC in a nutshell
A pilot doesn't have a pen in the cockpit? Should be grounded for good.
Or maybe it was just an excuse to get away with it
A driver didn’t have a pen in the car. They should lose their license. (Sounds stupid right)
Pilots losing their pens in the cockpit is quite common. Ask anyone scratching on an old VFR chart 🙂
those phone numbers ai ai ai i dont like to hear that line if i would be an pilot
I mean, you would expect pilots to be the best group of individuals navigating themselves on the ground or in the air. I guess I am wrong then.
These are very rare incidents
After committing a pilot deviation and laughing about it the pilot says he cannot write down the phone number because he does not have a pen. A pen is a basic tool for all pílots especially GA pilots. How disrespectful of this guy.
they never get better,,,,i can guarantee.