"You cannot fly here! No excuse is good enough!". Real ATC Audio
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
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Boys and girls, this pilot is a perfect example of why flying cars will never become a reality.
Once we have self-driving cars that will produce only 10% or less of the injuries and deaths we have today, we WILL have flying cars and you will not have access to the controls.
You mean this is why flying cars will be fully automated?
Only way flying cars will happen is if you push a button to your destination and then an automated system flies your flying craft to your destination. It will be tied to ATC and ATC will control your aircraft. You will not be in control of your aircraft as it is now. Watch the Jetsons videos.
@@jp4163 In the Jetsons, the humans were in control of their flying cars.
It’s exactly why they will become a reality. Chumps like this won’t need to fly the airplane, the computer will do it, and the chaos of VHF voice comms will be unnecessary and obsolete.
How many would rather hear the PHONE CALL?!! 😮💨
I can't even imagine how many curse words the contoller spit at this dude during the call.
@@frankgrimesification Either controller. Tower would *love* to be part of that
It’d be great if at the end of the call the tower controller gives him another number to call because “someone else also wants to yell at you”.
@@yl0000 😂🤣🤣🤣
The call is so he can give the tower his pilot license info, current address, phone number, and a good time for a call from the FAA to contact him if need be. This all goes into a report that is filed to the FAA
Fun fact: He's 88 years old. I'm 77 and I just voluntarily surrendered my driver's license, because it's much better to stop driving too early than too late. Same with flying, evidently.
Brave move. I applaud you for thinking of others. I wish more people could do the same.
quitter
Hopefully the FAA takes that and the errors into account and grounds him... Hopefully.
@@RobAlpacaflip 😆
It almost seemed like he didn't want to land for the last time.
He’s a menace to himself and everything else in the air. Yes, birds too.
@@ustelephoneI am serious. And don’t call me Shirley
Birds too 🐦🕊️😂🤣😂🤣. I'm dying ovah Heeya, in my best jersey accent.
What’s your vector, Victor?
Picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
LOL...Very good ,sir
I lost count how many times he failed to ident on his transmissions.
I was thinking the same thing.
Without going back and counting, my closest guess would be..... about every time. 😃
Who signed him off - Charles Manson?
Wouldn't it be easier to count the times he DID identify?
Or, how many times he stepped on either the tower or other pilot transmissions.
Wasn't he supposed to call runway in site as well?
Bought my Cherokee from a senior citizen. Flight I did with him I offered to be on comms (he was a mess on the radio) and thankfully he agreed. At least he knew it was time to hang up flying.
Unfortunately a lot of old timers don’t know when to hang it up. They put EVERYONE at risk, I see it every day the airport I work at. We just shake our heads and say make it over the fence where we will not have to deal with the crash!
@@puddinjr1121 Not just aircraft. Boats too. Looked at a 53 foot motorsailer that a fellow in his 80s owned. The boat was in frightening condition. Ready to sink. He had been doing his own maintanence on it and had no clue what he was doing. He just couldnt give it up and waited until it was worthless before he tried to sell it. I told the broker that if it was floating in a farmyard duck pond, I would be sitting in the life raft wearing my survival suit.
@@puddinjr1121my work isn't as dire. But they put me under someone. This guy left ourntrade to do his own business but came back to pay his payroll. He was telling me how to put something in. Looked down at the prints he had in his hand. They were upside down.. 😂. Nothing I could do but follow orders.
@@kolsen6330 Not just aircraft and boats. Cars too. Anyone would see me and raise?
@@urbanturbine Motorcycles LOL
If you've never seen a senior citizen in skills decline, this can be hard to understand. It doesn't always happen gradually. I watched my grandmother go from a very competent, safe driver, to a careless, absent-minded disaster of a driver in a matter of months. Hearing this guy on the radio reminded me of her when we would tell her she ran red lights, pulled out in front of other cars, etc. She also claimed brake failure.
Yes, we’ve all seen a senior citizen in decline before our very eyes. One quite recently on a national tv debate.
That’s got to be terrible to stomach when it’s someone you love. I’m not at all prepared for that.
@@alexnutcasio936 look at their guy but not at your own. Typical of a certain ilk.
@@charlesfaure1189 My guy is fine. He hires his own pilots to fly his 757.
@@acmhfmggruAnything happen since then?
I find it hard to believe this guy has a pilots license, and if he does, he should be grounded indefinitely as its a disaster waiting to happen.
OMG.... 300 and 1500 and 300 and 1500 then left and right and left and right and so on. I find it hard to belive the Tower staff has the licens or competence to give instructions.
Or needs to have an instructor.
he does and it is still active
The directions weren't conflicting. The directions were changed to adjust for the pilot incorrectly following the previous instructions. E.g. after the male ATC instructed the pilot to turn left and fly over the midline of the airfield the pilot turned too flmuch and too early. The female ATC telling him to turn right is a direct response to the pilot's mistake. @vandpunktsverigevstpse1558
@@vandpunktsverigevstpse1558 yikes bro. The instructions were very clear - the pilot repeatedly failed to follow them, acknowledge them, use his call sign, etc. 100% his fault. Controllers had to change instructions to adapt because he kept failing. He should never be allowed to fly.
"Possible" pilot deviation. LOL
Or, ya know. seven of them.
It’s called the Brasher statement and we have to read it exactly or FISDO will just through the paper work in the trash and blame the controller for this idiot
Only seven?
This person needs to be reevaluated by FAA examiner.
That's probably what's going to happen. After he is contacted by the FSDO and they talk to him, they will probably have him evaluated by a DPE.
well the examinator only has to watch this video. reevaluation on a good day would give the wrong information
@@dowdyjackson5499I very seriously doubt any FSDO manager would let a DPE do it at this point. It’s gonna have to be a POI-level inspector or a national resource FAA inspector. This went way over the line. Just my $0.02 ✌️
Forget pilot deviation calls, someone like this should have had the Port Authority Police waiting for him with a breathalyzer…
I'm pretty sure that was the "99" he was talking to at the end
At the very least. This fellow put everyone in grave danger!
Typical ameritard. POLICE!!!!!!!! POLICE FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@Failure_Is_An_Option he made multiple in air deviations that could have ended in loss of life and crossed an active runway without being cleared to do so. Yes the police need to investigate because if he's under the influence they need to take away is pilots license so he doesnt do it again.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option I'd typically agree with this reply. Some people will call the police for the most minor things. But I do think flying while drunk is dangerous enough to get police involved when there's good reason to suspect it. And I think that's not an unreasonable suspicion here given how this long time pilot was acting.
My father flew out of Lilydale in outer eastern Melbourne Australia and started taking us when I was about 9. He was a very careful and thorough man, and I never was afraid with him ever. I enjoyed those times with him so much, he was a very successful businessman and it was where he always felt completely free. He moved to Queensland when he was 63 (the age I am now) and bought himself another Cessna and flew out of Maroochydore on the border of New South Wales. At the age of 72, he started to have some heart issues and decided for himself that he would stop flying, he considered that he could be a risk to others. My darling dad died in December 2022 aged 87, having not flown for 15 yrs but he missed it until he died but at least he had done the ethical thing and ceased flying voluntarily. And he died of heart failure so he would have been a risk but his brain was still,as sharp as a tack. Boy, I miss him ♥️
What a sweet homage to your dad ❤
@@candywilliams3533 thank you so much, what a lovely thing to say. He was a great dad to us. I went to him for my problems, not my mum, we were so close for such a long time, I loved him so much. Always there for me all of my life 🩷
Lilydale is the airport I fly out of when I do flight sims when it's night in the Eastern USA and I don't feel like night flying in a simulator lol
Would move to Southern Australia if I had the gas money to get there 😂🙏🏼
So what .. we don't need your bloody life story ... Was he the pilot of that Cherokee .. ?? If not then how is this relevent to this video
Legend has it that Mr. Magoo is still sitting in his Ford Cherokee.
“Air hog!!”
4:33 he was begging you to let him land, I don't blame him, 14 years is one heck of a wait 🙄
😂 I can't with you!
Amazed he had enough fuel to stay aloft for 14 years. Most Cessnas won't last that long in the air without any fuel......
when someone wont accept the fact that they are to old to be flying.
Someone needs to take his keys away from him
Clarifying "ground .9" as "uh 121.9" was probably a smart choice by the controller.
*MY* blood pressure was rising listening to this.
Right there with you. I was SCREAMING at my monitor watching this pathetic excuse of airmanship.
Same here! EWR airline pilot here and I was getting anxious thinking about having to go around because of that numbnuts.
How do you hold?
Mine was incredibly reduced. All my atc "sins" seem pathetic after hearing this guy 😂
I am not a pilot. I have enormous respect for the pilots who communicate clearly and work with the pros of ATC. This guy is not safe to fly. He scared me to death. This is how a lot of people can die.
And his excuse is "I've been here for 14 years". If I had a dollar for every time I heard that stupidity.
14yrs. And just look how much he's learnt over that time.
He’s 87
And only had his ticket for 10 years.
@@KazKimura Maybe it's time for him to only go up if he's in the passenger seat. You dig?
To be honest, if I had been there for 14y, I wouldn’t wanted to finally land too😂
That guy needs to be grounded, like now. He is not fit to fly.
Everybody has off days.
@@Pfefferkuchenmanthe off days are every day for this guy
@@sgtjonzo unjustified
I heared this on a different channel with a pilot narating yesterday. After hearing this uninterupted i can hear how much of a disaster he is. For those who don't know this, the beeps you hear on the background is the pilot interupting the conversation. I don't know what this pilot was doing, but a redo on his pilot license to see if he is capable to continue flying solo is a smart idea. At least he was capable to land the plane.
No redo. Take it away permanently.
But everyone wants to blame ATC.
The owner of the Piper still has the airplane and his flying is really scary. You can look up the tail number on any of the flight tracker sites. He is all over the place, clearly exceeds Vne in decent and appears to do some low level flying that the FSDO would probably have issues with.
He's going to be an NTSB report eventually
@@lizzsszzy7800 "In the next episode of Air Crash Investigations...."
"He is disaster..."
Very, very unprofessional. If the FAA knew about this, the controller would be reprimanded.
@@drsudz the controller somehow kept everyone safe while Mr Magoo was about as sharp as a marble.
@@drsudzYou are not allowed to comment in this airspace
@@benvail6395You're not a pilot, are you?
@@drsudz You're not ATC, are you? He was no longer on the frequency when that comment was made. This happened in 2009. He crashed the plane in 2012. I'm pretty sure the FAA is already aware of what happened, schmuck.
This pilot was a mess...but the controllers did not help . I know he should probably not be flying but the fact is controllers need to keep their calm. It is ok to slightly raise tone of voice, but they took frustrations out on what looked like a confused pilot needing help. Once he lands...reprimand all day, but when the plane is in the air their job is to do everything possible to assure a safe outcome of the flight. They did not help him avoid future mistakes with all the threats. I can imagine he got very tensed up and nervous and thats why mistakes started snowballing.
They were as calm as the situation merited. They did not panic, they did not act unprofessionally, they gave urgent orders for the safety of everyone involved and their urgency and exasperation increased as the person continued to endanger multiple planes even after it had landed.
I don't understand how anyone can look at this and go, "B-b-b-b-b-b-but ATC sounded RUDE to me! How DARE they be RUDE to a man who is seemingly doing his best to run into other airplanes?????"
Have you never received an actual order in your life? That's what those are. Those aren't kind suggestions from a friend. Those are orders from your temporary superior, because when you are in their airspace you follow their rules. This is so that planes do not crash into each other. And if you do not follow them it is not the fault of the person giving the order that they didn't do it in a tone you cared for.
Agreed. That lady was just yelling at him when she needed to continue giving instructions.
He was flying across an active landing pattern at 600'... They needed him to do SOMETHING and he wasnt.. I wouldnt even had given him the phone number, I would've walked out of the tower and right to his plane and dealt with it right there lol.. Show him a pilot deviation..
This is some of the busiest airspace in the country. Controllers can be hold your hand out in Kansas, but when there's 3 international airports within 25 miles, you have to be on your A game.
As a commercial pilot im more confused by ATC and the 2 controllers giving him conflicting right and left turns to the heading. The runway incursion of course is an issue and his somewhat delayed radio responses.... but still ATC was not very good here.
He was failing to comply and the situation changed. He needed to react immediately not 30 seconds later.
@@BrokenAtari It was obvious from the first seconds of his approach that he was in trouble. Any responsible controller could see that. But rather than help the situation, she made it worse by screaming needlessly. She should have declared an emergency for the pilot.
Agreed. They were both disgusting. An emergency should have been declared for the pilot. The ATCs were negligent.
Truth to all of the above.
@@gringoloco8576 I am so glad I'm not the only one to notice this! Yes his phraseology was incorrect on the radio. That's inexcusable. But he was trying hard to comply and then constantly given contradictory instructions
Sounds like a case of cognitive decline. Old guy was confused. I’d be he had a recent traumatic event in his life. As we age, life’s struggles take a greater toll on our brains.
joey
@@Mtnmanmike62 I would be confused too if I had two angry controllers yelling contradictory instructions at me.
@@katanamd The instructions get contradictory when you've ignored all the good options and now they have to do anything possible to get you out of the way.
This guy clearly has no idea what he's doing. Don't even try.
@@katanamd Yeah, I noticed that too. He'd start to follow directions then the other controller would shout different ones.
Everyone think of how many idiots you deal with daily, on average. This is what they’re doing to you mentally!
*pilot crosses active runway* "oh tee hee I'm sorry" "NO EXCUSE IS GOOD ENOUGH" #facts
Are you serious ? You can't tell the pilot was in trouble ? He said the brakes didn't work. The idiot ATC who said "no excuse is good enough" is dead wrong and should be suspended for making a bad situation worse by not understanding it and then escalating it. There was no incoming traffic on that runway and the airport was not that busy. He should not have let him continue taxing but rather had the plane towed. Morons.
Am I the only one confused by the two ATCs?
Male ATC: Turn right 200
46AV: okay
Female ATC: Turn left 190 at 1500
Female ATC: Turn left 200 at 1500
46AV: okay
Male ATC: Turn right 200
Male ATC: Turn left fly over midfield
46AV: okay
Female ATC: Turn right 090
46AV: okay
Male ATC: Turn right at Echo (mind you no mention of hold short)
46AV: okay
They were just trying to get him to do something.. And they for sure told him to hold short of Rwy 24 (think it was 24) And dont think he ever responded to the climb instruction..
She kept incorrectly saying left when she meant right. That did not help.
@@jdshkolnik you are assuming she didn’t mean exactly what she said
Not responding to traffic controller, and being told many times to climb to 1500 while seemingly making turns back to the runway, with incoming traffic, all because he lived there for 14 years. A disaster waiting to happen I can see why the controller wasn't going to let people get killed on her runway.
@@jdshkolnik
Well there were two ATCs and one was saying left and the other one was saying right, so I'm not certain that they did not contribute to the problem.
Please tell me this guy lost his license.
Nope.
Ok, this guy lost his license.
@@trent3872 lol
In his defense (not saying he wasn't a little bit of a trainwreck) but there were two different TEB Tower controllers giving him what seemed like conflicting instructions Re: turn direction and heading.
Though it also sounds like he was the one stepping on tower as tower was trying to give him instructions.
And he couldn't follow either one.
The guy was getting OJT and she was the instructor. They said they could see him, so changing the direction of the turn, based on where he was at, at that moment, with the traffic he could be able to follow, is not unusual. If the pilot does not follow the initial instructions then the instructions will change based on where everyone is at.
@@peterrollinson-lorimer wouldn’t
That was entirely her fault.
Unless the video depiction is off she told him to turn left to 190 and 200 when right would have been the call unless there's an obstruction I'm not aware of.
Conflicting ATC requests confused me
Well, he never managed to turn either left or right to 190 or 200. So it's a moot point.
They could see him out the window. They initially told him right turn, but he turned left, so they told him to keep turning left
@MigglesworthCaptain/pilot flyes the plane. He/she has the controls and should know what he is doing.
@Migglesworth This 'disaster' was encroaching on their final. He was about to go head to head with inbounds. When he didn't answer the initial instructions, his further transgressions required different instructions. KTEB is no place for the meek. Radio needs to be crisp as well. He kept keying the mike at inopportune times, further messing up his arrival. I've only been to TEB about a thousand times. Head on a swivel and short, crisp radio please.
Terrible flying and radio protocol
I hope this guy reads the comments here, calling him pathetic is a compliment.
I hope you read my comment, don't be a d*** bro.
""You cannot fly here! No excuse is good enough!"
"6AV, declaring an emergency..."
ATC: (You little shit!)
Well for what it's worth, those are two out of context statements. The no excuses statement was after he was on the ground and not stopping when ordered.
Dear controllers. Don't scream into the radio. It achieves nothing. Raise your voice sure but screaming does nothing. This is becoming more common. Don't need extra narrative, don't need snotty comments, it achieves nothing. Now yes this pilot was an absolute disaster but the controllers weren't much better.
It's Jersey that's normal tone and volume for voice.
I agree. Just make things worse if you have a nervous pilot.Better sort it out on the ground.
exactly. This ATC female endangered flight safety by making things worse. She obviously doesn't understand her job-make planes land safely.
@@omerberner "this ATC female"
Holy shit that phrase is cringe.
Quite.....
Grandpa is probably too old to fly but the two controllers giving different directions sure didn’t help.
On top of all the other problems, what a bad time for the brakes to fail.
Old pilot here: As I was soiling my pants, I thought heard the male ATC give pilot of 6AV Left Turn Instructions and the female ATC give pilot of 6AV Right Turn instructions. Let me replay that.
That's what I've heard. The pilot was following ATC instructions and at the end he had a brake failure.
Comment section is full of backlash but nobody explain where he got it wrong.
@@tomar81 everywhere
@@tomar81If he had a brake failure, he taxied pretty far before he stopped. And he continued to taxi after he announced that his brakes failed
@@estiar1956 he continued after he was told to do so at 8:56
That's what I thought. That controller woman making stupid threats telling him to get out of her space was annoying. Wasn't he going right and she told him he was making a left turn? I'm guessing her name is Karen.
Not unusual to have to deal with senior citizen pilots. Hate to take away their right to fly but they become a danger to everyone around them.
The _FAA_ is very clear that it is a _privilege_ and not a right. You learn that day 1 of ground school. If you can't meet the requirements, your privileges are gone. Simple as that. This dude should not ever be allowed to fly again.
@eeyore.official he could always get an ultralight then it's just all is fair
He did not sound like a "senior citizen", He sounded like he was in maybe his 30's
@@chilidog6727 You're 100% not a pilot, or you'd know what senior citizens sound like on the radio. The pilot of 6AV is very, _very_ obviously a senior citizen. You can hear it in his voice, and his claim that he's "been there for 14 years." He was most certainly a senior citizen who is clearly extremely incapable of safely flying anymore.
@@chilidog6727no, he’s 87.
"You need to turn right. No....Your other right".
The controllers were bad too. The right left right shit was out of control
I think people here started typing their comments from first second and didn't have a time to watch the video.
Noticed that nobody here can tell where the pilot went wrong
@@tomar81 The only thing I saw was failure to hold at the runway with what appeared to be partial incursion of the runway, possible mechanical failure? I mean, one controller saying turn right and then another butts in with a turn left.
The female controller needs a good talking to also. She seemed to have her left and right mixed up.
Turn left now! Turn right now! Turn left no right! No left! 😂
Yup. That's what I heard. Failing to brake ahead of runway was the responsibility of the pilot, but in the air he was given incredibly conflicted directions. I wish we could see his altitude, cause if the controllers don't understand left and right, maybe they don't understand up and down.
Yeah giving a plane that's flying ~180 the instruction to turn left into inbound traffic to turn to heading 200 was quite questionable.
It is also the first time I've seen that two different controllers controll the same airspacesector on the same frequency. Mental capacity certainly didn't help the guy, but the controllers were less than not helpfull too.
That's what I thought. She explicitly told him to turn left. She contributed to his confusion.
Yep, and the tone used definitely didn't help the mental state of the pilot. Not saying he didn't make any mistakes, but they were very clearly annoyed when he was confused by confusing (conflicting) instructions from different controllers
I'm a student ATCO... the female supervisor made that incident a thousand percent worse. Flustering a pilot who is rapidly loosing confidence is the worst thing you can do. You can tell she's never worked class G LARS... believe me when I say this - her actions should be on the report too. Classic human factors
Maybe the thought of lost souls was on her mind or maybe the old MAN should have listened the first time. Keep trying scooter.
@@Hope4all2 if you are qualified I would highly recommend you revisit Human Factors training
Wow thought the comments were out of line then I watched it finish. That seems like someone that should have been revoked medically.
Yes. My first guess was a medical crisis of some kind. ATC handled this horribly. The idiot ATC at the end hurling insults actually let him taxi AFTER it was obvious he couldn't AND the pilot said his brakes failed. He should have been told to shut down where he was and have the plane towed. Incompetent hot headed ATC.Both should lose their jobs.
Also I might be a neophyte here but weren't ATC giving him contradicting instructions while he was flying? One kept saying turn left and the other kept saying turn right.
@@RoadsideCookie Yes, the controllers were not making sense and were contradictory. Not to mention their pointless and petty screaming at the pilot. But the problems with the pilot started BEFORE the problems with the controllers did. He ignored instructions to turn and he ignored instructions to climb. There was clearly something wrong with the guy and instead of acknowledging and acting on it, the female controller wanted to kick him out of the airspace. Why ? So he could go to another airport and do the same thing ?....IF he even made it to another airport ?
@@Thinks-First Yeah for sure, I realise now that my message sounded like I was trying to shift the blame but I'm not, I think everyone did badly in this incident.
@@Thinks-First You violate D airspace, repeatedly, you are going to be insulted. The first jet was probably past missed approach, and you expect pilots to be competent, he started to turn, and then turned back. He didn't gain altitude as instructed. They got him cleared after the first jet, and then he fouled an active runway.
When you're in delta airspace where he was, you can't land from there. You can stop everybody else from landing. He would be a hazard to them if they did a go-around. With almost full flaps on, going low and slow, the jets really can't turn (TO/GA gives you full power, retracts your flaps, you then go to missed approach height THEN turn to heading. Deviate and you will crash). There's no fender-benders in planes. The ATCs are getting separation warnings from their systems, and probably a near-miss. It's an very urgent situation, the whole point being to turn away from the other plane approaching. You yell at a bear, even if he doesn't know what you're talking about.
It's like watching the debate all over again!
A mental 81-year-old vs a mental eight-year-old?
@@charlesfaure1189 Exactly... Every single eight year old I know has the intelligence, wits, and ability to be a successful multi-millionaire!
Funny how all the dems loved that guy until he ran for president on the republican ticket.
@@basketballjones6782 exactly!
I absolutely love how poorly these comments have aged. 2 weeks is a LONG time these days, huh?
Female controller also needs remedial training. Obviously the pilot was having an issue (possibly medical), screaming at him and giving conflicting directions helps nobody and is dangerous. Congratulations to the first controller who got him safely on the ground... There is never ever any reason to be unprofessional..
being a stupid idiot is not a medical condition
I was looking for this comment. 6AV was clearly struggling, and especially the female controller, she was not helpful at all. If they see that he is struggling, why not keep the instructions simple and try to maintain safety. Screaming at someone that is performing their max mental capacity, will not help.
spot on
diversity is our strength
@@farche2 And equity and inclusion, right?
did that woman think kicking him out of the airspace was going to solve the problem? she lost her cool 7 whole minutes before anybody else, what an amateur
She was being firm, and you dont have time to play in aviation, if this is someone ”losing their cool” for you then you must not get out much.
@@Arturhsmrogna It's standard practice to blame the woman.
@@ninedaysjane2466 it does seem like standard practice for them to stop working and make other people take over as soon as it gets difficult
thank you for these videos.
Thank you for watching!
@@TheATCAudiothank you for telling him "thank you for watching!"
Should not get a number to call but be met by the cops with cuffs.
"Here's the number: 911, and tell them you've done."
I mean it was pretty bad but some guys here in the comments need to chill as well. He didnt even cause a go around or any avoidance manouvers. Guy possibly had deteriorating medical condition, it can happen especially to older people if they for example dont drink enough. Teterboro has 30+ degree temps these days.
Agree. 6AV should have faced more serious consequences. Just terrible.
Ridiculous. He was in a mental crisis. So easy to be a clueless armchair judge.
@@LunnarisLP Yep. Agreed. Some of the monday morning quarterbacks in this comment section are morons.
Guy was sitting in the middle of 24 and ATC is trying to give him a phone number.
It would be wise to have him clear the runway first and then give him the number :)
24 wasn’t the active rwy
That runway was not active and the traffic was light. But the pilot should have been told to shut down where he was and emergency crews should have gone out to tow the plan and give him a medical evaluation.
These controllers are garbage, all of them.
1:10 "verify flying 200, turn right" 200 is practially south.
Pilot proceeds to turn right and aligns himself to 200.
1:20 "climb and maintain 1500, immediately"
1:35 "you are making a left turn, we see you making a left turn"
All the while the pilot maintains heading 200 and is likely utterly confused at this point, because he is maintaining a heading and a traffic controller now tells him to continue "a left turn?" and maintain heading 190 when he is at 200 already? whaaa, so instructions here are to make almost a 360 turn the other direction?
2:00 Anyway the pilot complies with asinine instructions and starts making the 360 degree turn back to south.
2:37 a dum dum controller overrides the previous instructions and tells the guy to start turning right to align with 200 while he was in the middle of complying with previous instructions, which were to make a 360 turn left to heading 200. Turning right at this point puts on the collision course with traffic landing.
Overall the controllers messed this whole thing up. There should be one controller giving instructions. Not two controllers overriding each other every 60 seconds.
@@dmitrychernivetsky5876 oh yeah? .. and the pilot of the Cherokee played by the book did he? .. a true hero, real stand up guy who doesn't know what day it was .. is he your Dad/boyfriend or something?
@@dmitrychernivetsky5876 thank you, somebody said that at last, they confused the hell out of the guy and caused him to run straight into traffic!
As noted he was given shitty instructions initially. One guy telling him to turn right heading 200, then the lady stating they seem him turning left, but he was NOT turning left. ??? Then gets loud and obnoxious calling for him to CONTINUE his left turn (the one he wasn't making) all the way AROUND to 190. Seriously? The tower was as bad as the pilot. Either that male or the female were WAAAAY off on instructions...maybe need canned.
Now, the brake excuse, well, I'd say if you have just obtained a new plane (or car or truck or train or tractor) you should probably feel it out and test all that stuff BEFORE your first serious flight or ride or workday. If the brakes worked on the taxi out to take off, then your brakes didn't work on the taxi in from landing is...bogus.
I heard the same thing, but apparently only a few commenters did.
@@basketballjones6782 Very few got it.
Tower: 5:03 "Follow the guy who knows what he's doing, and land behind him".
I can't blame all of that on the pilot. He had two controllers yelling angrily at him with contradictory instructions. He followed one immediately and the other starts yelling. Then he apparently had a mechanical failure that he mentioned over the radio but controllers didn't acknowledge
Sure his altitude was off and his communication wasn't great. But if that's all that happened it probably would be much less an issue
This video is one that I might save. People need to understand this airspace is some of the most busy airspace in the world. I don't remember how many airports with operating control towers are in this airspace. Many years ago around 1990, I was about 6 months removed from my private check-ride. I wanted to fly into what was then just Atlanta Hartsfield Airport. The man who taught me to fly and who also owned the aircraft highly advised me to not fly there until I got some more experience and offered to fly with me when I was up to it. By the time I landed and headed to the FBO there, I was almost not functioning. My CFI went in with me and we sat down at a table and discussed the situation. One thing he pointed out to me was while it is legal for GA aircraft to use that airport unless it is an emergency you are better off using the other airports inside the Atlanta airspace. It's easy to blame some of this on the controllers, but they don't have time to nursemaid an obviously overwhelmed pilot and not cause a situation that could get somebody hurt and get them decertified as controllers. I understand that Teterboro is not JFK, but still that airspace is the problem, it is just so busy there is no margin of error!
I wish Live ATC kept archives of KCDW because I was working at the airport that day when he was talking to KCDW and Tower said "That is the worst maintaining of a heading I have ever seen."
I wonder if he had a bad gyro. If he had a bad HI it would explain the failure to keep on a heading. The brake failure at TEB would lead me to believe that the plane was poorly maintained, especially if it was just sold to this person.
@@traab007 At 87 or 88 years old, I have to wonder if he just didn't have enough strength to apply the brakes. . . or lift his feet up to them.
At 2:38 one of the controllers told 6AV to turn right heading 200 get clear of the final approach course. He should have said left to 200.
Fortunately 6AV got that instruction wrong also or he would have turned right into landing traffic.
Right to 200 when it was directed was the correct action to take. He failed to do that. So they wanted him to do a left 270 to avoid the conflict with the traffic on final. This was totally on the pilot. He should never fly again.
@@ImpendingJoker Right to 200 when it was directed was the correct action to take at the 1:35 mark when the lady controller gave it to him. One minute later he was much closer to the final and a right turn that was given to him by the guy controller would I think
been the wrong thing to do. This is all assuming that the video syncs up with the audio. Just speculating anyway.
Everyone wants to blame the pilot (rightly so) and no one wants to talk about how poorly ATC handled the whole thing. Everyone was wrong here
ATC is not required to handle pilots with kid gloves, and the expectation that overworked people doing their best to keep everyone in the air safe should never be curt or demanding is idiotic. This guy was an active danger in a very active airspace and was not correcting his actions. They snuck him into the landing pattern specifically so that he'd stop crossing in front of other planes in the pattern.
These are actions that get lots of people killed. They were right to use the tones they used, and the one controller was 100% correct to call him a disaster.
@@darwinism8181 ANY pilot who is trying to disseminate crappy and conflicting directions from psychopath ATCs like this guy had to deal with would be an "active danger". From what I heard, there was apparently no right answer for the female ATC in this video... I know her well... I was married to one just like it for way too many years.
@@basketballjones6782 So you're making things up in your head about a person you don't know because you're still hung up on an ex-wife.
@@basketballjones6782 If you can't handle the fact that safe headings change rapidly in a crowded airspace and have the innate lack of a grasp of basic geometry that means you can't understand that if you ignore an initial instruction then the followup will not be the exact same as the first because all involved parties have moved in the time between directions... then maybe you shouldn't be anywhere near a plane except as a passenger.
Like, seriously. This is a 'two cars are driving towards one another,' kind of problem just with angles. We did this stuff in high school at the latest - if one of the cars doesn't move when it's told to, it continues traveling. That travel distance, along with the distance other things are traveling, means that the direction to avoid a collision has changed.
People crying about 'conflicting' directions are just plain ignorant of the basic facts of physics that say that a safe heading given thirty seconds ago is NOT a safe heading right now.
I'm so glad I moved on from TEB to DCA Tower back in 1998. I dont ever miss my days at TEB. So many like this!
Time to take the keys away from Pa-paw
On a related note, my senior aged Grandmother was getting worse and it ripped me apart, thinking I was going to need her keys soon... She beat me to it, when she drove through the carport wall into the kitchen, shoving the refrigerator across the kitchen into the stove..
When I went over to check on her, she handed me her keys and said "I'm done"
(she was a Los Angeles Transit bus driver in the 50's-60's)
This guy is gonna end up on Pilot Debrief. Hopefully he takes this incident as a serious warning, so we don’t hear about him again.
This guy is going to end up on Air Crash Investigation if the FAA doesn't ground him.
Wow. What the hell was he doing? Tenant for 14 years, first flight since then? Was the plane even in annual?
I was also wondering if his altimeter may have been broken
The ATC was anal.
Pilot sounded intoxicated.
He’s 87
@@KazKimuraHe sounds 87, and intoxicated
@@VictoryAviation More like 87 and mental decline...
@@SeedlingNLshould run for Presidency. He's qualified.
@@scenepointjudge On the Democrap ticket. Yep, he'd fit right in.
At first listen seems 2 controllers were giving him conflicting directions, and turning him repeatedly in the path of traffic. The pilot has the right to disobey controllers in those circumstances. I'll listen again.
The male controller commands a right to 200 which he does. The woman controller is barking orders to him. Sharply commanding immediate climb to 1500. He doesn't catch the 6AV because she calls it too soon. Without the usual transmit button press a moment before the 6AV to alert pilots to be listening for a command. Then she tells him he's making a left turn. She says "We see you making a left turn". I see him having made a right turn.. When she tells him to turn left he does it heading into the path of the other plane. When it seems 6AV will pass behind the on coming traffic the male controller tells him to turn right again into the path of the on coming plane again. Then when the male sees his mistake he turns 6AV away into a circle. Then he turns him across the path in front of another plane. When he passes safely the woman barks at him. Turns him right to put him again in the path. He sees these planes coming at him. He's doing his best to comply. The controllers are playing "Pushing Tin" trying to slot him, a slow plane, in tight between fast jets. Since both controllers are screwing up they both start barking at him to rattle him, conceal their mistakes in a flurry of threats, and cover for each other. Then on the ground they turn him on Echo in front of another oncoming plane. He stops before crossing in front of the plane. They stop the other plane, and call him a disaster. He gets rattled, he doesn't throttle back enough for the brakes to hold. He enters the runway that has no traffic and now they can blame him for everything.
Very unprofessional controllers.
This is why we're talking about replacing controllers with computers.
I agree
For those of you not familiar with the geography and maps of the NYC metro area, the dark ribbon to the right of Teterboro is the Hudson River. The island on the right side of the river is Manhattan. Newark Airport is 13 air miles to the south. LaGuardia is 11 miles east. Kennedy is 20 miles southeast. Buy that pilot a tricycle with training wheels.
VERY busy airspace. No room for errors.
And Westchester County Airport is just a few miles to the north.
There is a metal bar just above the brakes pedals on the Piper. Sometimes, pilot will press on the metal bar instead of the brakes and this was why the plane could not stop. It happened with new student pilots but jeez.
There is no such metal bar on any Cherokee I've flown.
He did sound a lot like a guy who was new to the plane. Probably was overwhelmed by having to do things he would usually be able to just know by heart, and whups suddenly you lose altitude. Old plane you knew how to trim, how it reacted to certain changes in throttle, where to pull your flaps and of course how to break lol.. So yeah
@@LunnarisLPhe’s 87
@@KazKimura87? Is that hexadecimal?
Does that bar hold cocktails?
It sounded like he was getting conflicting instructions from two controllers.
That runway incursion was bad.
That's what caused the initial confusion. The woman told him to turn left after the guy told him to turn right. He was clearly confused by the conflicting instructions.
@@johnneiberger7311 I'm glad somebody mentioned this. Obviously this pilot is a problem, but having 2 different controllers talking to him -- AND giving conflicting instructions -- was also a problem.
So glad to finally find these comments. Most comments here feel unnecesarily antagonistc to the pilot.
@@johnneiberger7311 He could have responded with a simple "say again". They always called him by his callsign. No matter how you twist this about "initial confusion" there is absolutely no excuse. I cant count how many times he talked over ATC and causing distortion.
@@johnneiberger7311 How could the ATC folks not realize they were giving him conflicting directions? How does that happen? And before you refuse to let someone land, don't you need to determine if they have fuel to make it anywhere else? Maybe put him in a holding pattern and use another channel to try determine the nature of his problem (compass, rudder or whatever)
His license should be revoked, that man is a hazard to public safety
Agreed. But the man had a problem. While he was in the air was not the time to chastise and berate him. Only morons would do that and you had two ATC morons in this video.
This happened in 2009. He had another incident in 2012. He's still flying to this day.
@@ninedaysjane2466 One incident in 2009 and one three years later in 2012 .Not bad. I know a pilot who owns a school and had that many incidents in a year and he's in his 40s.
@@ninedaysjane2466 that’s crazy
This chucklehead is making the rounds on *ALL* the aviation RUclips pages. Mentour, 74 Gear, Pilot Institutes.... they've all covered this dangerous idiocy in detail
09:14 First time I've heard them roll a truck for a deviation.
Airport ops / Security not a truck
I work in airfield Ops, we get rolled on every one that is an aircraft landing at our facility. We take a statement as the 3rd party and get all of their contact info for ATC to make their report.
We use it as part of our SMS (Safety Management) to try to improve our operation. Sometimes we learn something that might be confusing and then can make that easier to understand.
@@ParkerUAS Is that SOP at all fields or is that just how things are done at your facility?
@@alexhajnal107 , pretty close to SOP at any Class C or Class B airport. As you get smaller it is less likely just due to manpower constraints.
Turn left, turn right, turn left, turn right
Terrible ATC controllers
Did anyone consider the pilot might’ve been suffering from something unusual like disorientation and needed a little extra help to get to safety?
that's what vectors are for. when "turn left" doesn't work, "turn to this vector at this altitude" should. and if THAT doesn't work, "TURN LEFT HEADING 190 AND CLIMB TO 1500" removes the remaining excuses.
That's the first thing I thought. ATC screaming and berating him was horrible.
He was suffering from being old as dirt.
They let Sol Rosenberg fly planes now, got it. "I'm a tenant here, Jerky!".
Old bro had information overload. ATC with wildly conflicting information didn't help
It did appear from the audio that ATC was giving conflicting instructions to the pilot. Didn't help having others step on the frequency while the conversation was attempted with the pilot.
"You CANNOT land here if you can't follow my intructions! Leave the air space IMMEDIATELY!"
Pilot "...Damn bro I think she's into me"
Look he was a shit pilot, but the female controller was also awful. If someone is struggling to fly, for the love of god don't shout at them over the radio. That's a sure fire way to get them flustered and make more mistakes which could likely end with them killing themselves. Christ she needed to calm the fuck down.
She was not helpful at all.
@@johnl5525 She was horrid and unprofessional. She needs to be suspended and retrained. And that's being nice.
She was not helpful but we don’t see much of what was going on around him. So we need more info on her situation as the video is not making that clear from her perspective
@@leodouskyron5671 Huh ? You need more info on HER "perspective" ? Ok, I'll help: SHE was solidly and safely on the ground throwing an unnecessary and dangerous hissy fit which could only escalate an already bad situation.. HE was thousands of feet in the air, in obvious danger, and clearly confused. Does that help you? Tell me how HER "perspective" counts for anything here.
Are you a pilot ?
Why do clowns like you always get your panties in a bind when a female ATC yells at an idiot who's not following clear instructions? If the first thing you think is she's having a hissy fit instead of thinking" this ass hat pilot is putting other aviators at risk" then you truly are ignorant and need a reality check.
This was made infinitely worse by the attitude of the controllers. I know the guy was a danger in the air but you need to acknowledge that he was having a medical episode, and yelling at him and giving (I counted 3) contradictory orders in such an aggressive manner one after the other was sure to make things worse.
Also, why on earth was the right turn AWAY from the glide path superseded with a left turn direction that put an incompetent pilot on a collision course with jets on final?
She has no business being a controller, she can't stay calm and clear let alone direct traffic.
Given a 200 heading, she then directed a left turn to 190 when they were on a 130 heading,
Did she what to have them make a left 360 for spacing, how about tell them that.
Rude, Unprofessional, Unhelpful, borderline hysterical controller.
You're working really hard to get your sexist dogwhistles in on this one. Good job.
@@arryaxx263 That’s racist.
I completely agree. She was completely unprofessional. Likely a DEI hire.
The last controller was also unprofessional. He should not have allowed the pilot in distress to taxi the aircraft after it was obvious he was having problems and claimed his brakes failed. Stupid ATC.
@@arryaxx263 What dog whistles ? The female ATC was a disaster. She shouldn't be anywhere near aviation. Nothing to do with her sex. Put a lid on your inferiority complex.
@@Thinks-First I can tell who you voted for. 😂
The pilots of EJA549 were probably laughing their asses off watching him cross the runway 😭
time to revoke.
what an absolute menace, and his oblivious demeanor is just as scary
The woman said turn left? He sounds clueless but the ATC has a little bit of fault here
Agreed.
ATC (presumably the supervisor?) kept him in his left hand turn to get him heading southwest because they couldn't trust him to keep turning. Problem comes @ 2:37 when the controller told him to start turning right. Then they had no more plan for him and lost control again. The pilot absolutely made mistakes but ATC did no favors here either.
Yup, turn right, turn left. Tower even blocks the pilots reply, mid sentence. When the pilot is transmitting he can't hear the tower. So trying to cut him off mid sentence isn't going to help anyone.
He was told to turn right to 200. He started turning left instead, so the supervisor came on and basically said "fine, left turn".
Getting different turns is a routine part of flying, because things change from moment to moment, and if someone finds that confusing, they shouldn't be a pilot.
@@HiddenWindshield And if a controller can't tell what's left or right, they shouldn't be controllers either...
NOTE* Not a pilot (yet), not ATC trained.
Here’s the opinion from a layman on the outside looking in with in all honesty, not all of the information.
1. As pointed out many times, there were a few confusing directions given by the ATC. If heading 200 is SSW, the first controller was correct to tell him to turn right to heading 200. And if the graphics were to be believed, that was where he was heading at first.
2. At this point I will acknowledge that the pilot seems to be a bit slow to respond (especially since he’s been working with this ATC for 14 years and this airspace VERY busy), and frankly a bit lazy in his responses, ie not using his tail number first when responding to ATC.
3. The pilot seems to constantly step on the radio channel, whether it’s to ATC or any other planes in the area.
4. He’s then told to turn left and go around to 200, being heavily chastised.
5. OPINION* While it’s clear that the pilot is not responding quickly and clearly to the ATC, the ATC is also being very heavy handed with him. If this is a situation that is due to mental problems, whether they be medical, alcohol, sleep deprivation, or whatever, at this point it might be better to get the pilot on the ground and out of the airspace than berate him about his piloting skills.
6. After he finally gets on the ground, he makes a number of errors taxiing, all the while stepping on the other transmissions. He claims that his brakes didn’t work, which is why he rolled through the taxiway and the runway.
Truthfully, this appears to be an older person (someone said 88), and I’m sure they’ll want to do some testing with a CFI before he’s allowed to fly again. That said, certain members of the ATC didn’t look at the whole picture, and assume that someone having this much difficulty flying / taking direction / controlling his heading and altitude wasn’t having issues that were beyond his control, and not due to a lack of training and skill. This was a vectoring of problems from both sides.
Why is one controller telling him to turn right (which he started to do) and the other telling him to turn left from a SE heading to get to a SW heading, putting him head on with approach traffic? And it seems like there's something wrong with his heading indicator. She asks for his heading and he says 30.. when it's clearly more like 60 or 70.
Yes, I was struggling to understand some of those turn directions he was being given.
This guy needs his license revoked. He complied with almost none of the directions ATC gave. I am actually shocked he landed on 19 and not 24 with as bad as he was at following directions.
someday we'll look back on how we managed airport traffic and wonder what the heck we were thinking by using such a pretty sketchy and dangerous patchwork of systems and people.
well, they were higher quality people
Pretty sure after his third mistake he should have been escorted by the USAF
There are literally more competent pilots in FSX Steam Edition
Those FSX pilots are legends, I saw one land a Boeing 777 on an aircraft carrier!
no joke.!!!!!!!!!
Just wild to me how many people don't understand two basic facts
A) Safe headings in crowded airspaces change, and fast. I didn't hear conflicting instructions so much as I heard constant updates to instructions that weren't followed to try and achieve a new safe heading.
B) ATC is not colleague who is required by HR to never ever speak sternly to you because it may impact your ever so delicate feelings. They are a temporary superior when you are in their airspace. It's really nice when they have the free time and effort to be accomodating but in some of the busiest airspace in the US demanding that is silly. I want ATC to prioritize safety, not politeness. It's like a grunt complaining that their sergeant gave them an order but was mean about it.
This is a perfect example of why private a/c should not be allowed at major airpoprts
My heart goes out to this guy. I have many elderly friends related to my hobbies (amateur radio, model trains, ect) and many of them I have known since I was a kid. I have vivid memories of them being younger, extremely sharp and on top of whatever they were doing. I'm now 42 and many of them are retired (some well past retirement) and some have even passed. I am a witness to their decline as they get older and it's heartbreaking. HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, this guy needs to be grounded. It's bad enough that he could kill himself in a mishap, but he could also endanger others.
My dad is 83. Car racer, motorcycle racer, engineer. His decline came like a bolt out of the blue.. Recognizing it and having to take him away from everything he loved - guns, cars, motorcycles, his workshops.. - extraordinarily painful. Then to have to take him out of his home for an assisted living.. This is something I'm going through now. 100% the guy in this video won't be flying again, and it is going to devastate him.
My grandpa is 83 as well, we're farmers and his operating abilities have hit a roadblock the past few years. We haven't kicked him off the farm yet because he'd start to deteriorate within hours but it's going to be necessary soon. He can't be trusted to operate tractors or do most any of the other tasks he wants to do, but he still finds opportunities to do so, then breaks things and blames it on the equipment like this guy's momentary brake failure. It's incredibly sad to witness and deal with
@RobKaiser_SQuest it is hard to watch.. the key is abundant patience. When push comes to shove, I have to explain things in step by step logic.. calmly. When I took my dad's keys, I told him that he did nothing wrong, but his cognitive abilities are severely compromised.. and that is not something that he can possibly be aware of. That can only be an external observation. Therefore, it is in his best interest that I step in..
I forever have my temper severely tested, but it is imperative to remain empathetic and gentle. Now my dad isn't an old farm boy, so your milage may vary.
whoa...what a mess
That female traffic controller was so emotional. I could tell at one point she cut off her transmission to scream and shout, then the other guy comes in and calmly gives instructions.
Two different controllers, one professional, one almost as bad as the pilot.
The guy was yelling, too, but you didn't notice that part because the male-dominated field of aviation will always find a way to blame the woman.
There's a lot of what-not-to-do from ATC here. It's a miracle the man didn't crash
The pilot was a disaster but the ATCs especially the female ATC weren't any better.
There was no possible in pilot deviation
So how was it his fault, the two controllers were giving him opposite directions?
This guy should run for president.
he announced he's no longer running for re-election so should have much more time to fly now.
I feel for this guy. It's obvious he's experiencing age related cognitive decline and doesn't realize it. He must be so frustrated and confused. Fortunately for everyone else I'm sure this is his last time in the pilot seat.
As a private pilot I'm not sure who was worse - the pilot or the controllers.
The controllers. The pilot obviously had some mental impairment. It's obvious he wasn't doing it intentionally. The controllers were absolutely awful and both should lose their tickets.
@@NOsmoke24 Try and concentrate on your reading comprehension. I wrote both were at fault. When you become a pilot you might understand. For now, go back to your armchair.
There are actually two people in this video who shouldn't be doing what they are doing.