Pilot CAN'T FLY IFR because his IPad has died. Martinsburg. REAL ATC
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- Due to the inability of the NAV approach instrument, the pilot performed an instrument approach to Runway 8 at Martinsburg Regional Airport (KMRB) using only an iPad, but it died. Therefore, the pilot had difficulty following ATC instructions, resulting in a difficult situation for both parties. The pilot encountered difficulties, but the professionalism of ATC was evident as they effectively managed the situation and gave effective instructions.
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Unbelievable professionalism on one end, unbridled shit-fuckery on the other.
LOL - well said.
Truth!
Unbridled. Do you think he's learned his lesson? I wonder if he's even IFR rated.
@@ZeedePlushes got an iPad dont he...
Can we use "shit fu"*kery" as a proprietary aviation term?
“Unable RNAV due equipment failure. Request vectors for the ILS”. That’s all he needed to say
Maybe he doesn't know how to fly an ILS.... as scary as that sounds. Maybe he doesn't even have an IFR rating.... if all he does is do approaches off an ipad... maybe I'm just confused and the guy knows IFR?
Maybe he was unable to even do that.
ATC tried offering that. He didn't seem to be able to.
Not everyone can be experienced as you mate coming out the womb
@@Towert7 if he wasn't instrument-rated, he wouldn't be able to even do IFR in the first place
The approach controller was the most helpful controller I have ever heard in a non emergency situation. He walked him in and the guy refused his help until the end. Bravo Mr. ATC.
NO the ATC guy was very arrogant and unprofessional
@@tritontransportYou must be one of those who tried to shoot an RNAV approach with an iPad huh?
@@09shadowjet no but the fact is the ATC guy was unprofessional. It’s not his duty to talk down to pilots or tell him iPads aren’t allowed. His job is just to help the guy land, keep his comments and condescending tone in check and then report the incident, That’s not the time and place to be discussing the legalities of an iPad because at that point it’s a bit too late for that. The pilot does share some responsibility as well for not being up front about his problem and I’m sure he didn’t want to say anything because he knows he’ll be in trouble but still doesn’t excuse the ATC snide remarks
@@tritontransport If you pay a little bit more attention, the ATC is questioning whether if solely relying on an iPad is legal for IFR or not was because the weather was marginal, pilot requested IFR cancelation but due to the struggles, ATC doesn't feel too comfortable to let him go and he was questioning IF it was still legal for him to issue IFR instructions knowing that the pilot rely heavily on his iPad for IFR.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can a controller deny an approach out of other reasons than than the controller responsibility areas? Or in other words: is it the controllers authority to judge the pilots and airplanes capabilities? Or is it the case, that the controller has to take the Pilots request without any doubt and the controller's doubts should be later filed in a completely separate procedure?
iPad was in Airplane Mode?
😁
Lol
Ha!
Nice one 😂
Controller: Flying RNAV with an iPad? Surely you can't be serious?
N7183V: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.
One of the most professional controllers I've ever seen on this channel combined with one of the most incompetent pilots I've ever seen on this channel. Good god. Give that controller a raise.
Rumour has it he’s still circling, waiting for a phone appointment with an Apple Genius
😂.
Seriously though, did he get on the ground safely?
"Can you bring it in to Ground at our nearest service station?"
That controller's tone of voice is screaming 'I am participating in the last moments of this pilot's life'.
I would say "I am participating in the last moments of YOUR life".
I usually fly my rnavs with my friend texting me the headings and altitudes
🤣
down a bit - left a bit - right a bit :)
🤣 That's the funniest comment in a while.
Hopefully not your girlfriend or wife texting you. Left a bit - right a bit. Noooooo the other left
You too? I though *I* invented that procedure...
The conversation changes greatly around 1:34 where the controller 's mindset goes from "you are not responding to instructions and screwing with me" to "this guy is executing a life ending procedure on himself and has just a few steps left to go".
the moment he realizes he is dealing with an actual emergency...
CFI/CFII here. That pilot needs a conversation with his instrument instructor. That controller… I'm in awe, he deserves a medal.
Do you honestly think this pilot ever took an IFR check ride? Or has any pilot certificate?
@@watashiandroid8314lol good point, this guy is relying on an ipad? Are you kidding me...
Is that even allowed as IFR?!
I honestly don't know but you would think that the FAA would force pilots who are required to know and use IFR with a system that is hardwired into the plane's avionics?
From my automation and advanced process control in a petrochemical and power plant background we are mandated to have two different systems both with backups for redundancy...
I would expect planes would require the same stringent rules and laws?
@@ajcook7777 short answer: no. longer answer: AC 91-78 advises on the use of EFBs in the cockpit as a replacement for paper charts. The pilot must have backup charts at all times. And the ipad is not allowed to replace any navigation equipment required by part 91. I’m a PPL student and even I know this.
No, he needs a conversation with the FAA. He’s past instructor world.
I wouldn't trust this guy to fly a ride on lawn mower.
Seriously.
This incident is terrifying.
ATC deserves a medal.
ANYBODY who can get a ride on mower to fly has some serious skills and I want to meet them! Wanna see video, too!
@@gano7297I could make one fly, but I doubt I could make it fly a second time.
man if i saw someone flying a lawnmower id trust them with everything
Referring to the nav nav points as, “…all this junk…” sums up this guys certificate factory ifr license.
I heard him say around 3:52 that he can't "identify this junction you are talking about". The caption in the video says junk, but i think it's an incorrect caption.
Or were you referring to another timestamp?
I doubt he even had an IFR license
I went back and listened again because I thought it was "junk", as well. It just sort of fit the entire mess! It was indeed "junction". The power of suggestion from the caption was strong on that one!
“An RNAV approach off an IPad … uhh sketchy” 😂 can’t believe that was said over the radio the first time I heard that.
Maybe the pilot meant he has no access to the approach plates because his iPad is dead? You can’t shoot approaches without approach plates… legally speaking..
@@j007taylor2 I'm a non-pilot, do pilots no longer get Jeppesen plates? I feel like if I were depending on an iPad, I'd print out the approach plates for 8 and 26 at MRB.
@@j007taylor2that’s exactly what he was trying to say, he was so nervous that he couldn’t even communicate straight. He was even willing to cancel IFR and risk descending through the clouds on his own just so ATC wouldn’t continue to be mad at him. That’s why It’s important to always have backups. I always fly with my ipad and 2 phones, they all have Foreflight.
@@ferpena Do you have a non electronic backup? Obviously it seems like you will never need them, but seems like instead of 2 phones having one phone and paper backups might be better? I'm not a pilot though. I was just curious.
@@3xceIIentyou can get paper plates and charts but in the digital age, most people don't because they change every couple of months and aren't cheap. I'd bet anything this guy didn't even have an IFR capable airplane, or if he did, he had zero clue how to use the onboard GPS system, which is 100 required for rnav approaches.
"He ain't on the ground yet. We'll see"😅
Some people have no business in the cockpit of an airplane. This guy has all the makings of being the subject of an Air Disasters episode.
that'd be a real short episode of Mayday.
That was painful.
Give that man a medal. That controller literally tried EVERYTHING short of getting up in the plane himself. That pilot scares me.
This controller gets an A++!!!!
CFI CFI-I MEI here, dumbing it down: any approach requires built in equipment into the aircraft. What I think the Mooney guy should’ve said( and what I would’ve said): My iPad is dead, I do not have access to approach plates, I need an ILS approach and a frequency of the ILS, vectors to final. on a day like this it would’ve been fine to fly that down at least to the ceilings then landed VFR.
That's giving the pilot way too much credit...
Came to post this. The plates were on the IPad and he couldn't access them. If he would have communicated that, he wouldn't be on RUclips right now.
@@Chris-de2qh yup, I was thinking that the whole time.
Except ATC offered him an ILS or VOR and he didn't seem to be able to do that... Who knows why. 🤷♀️ But that's how it sounded to me.
@@flyinchick a VOR approach is impossible to do without a plate or GPS, an ILS is technically impossible but you can get a vector to final and fly it all the way to minimums (you’d ask what they are) if you are in a pickle.
Best call would be to somewhere that’s VFR
From what i remember, you can have charts on a ipad/tablet, provided you have a backup device or paper charts to navigate, for gps, you must use an onboard gps installed in the cockpit.
I think this pilot needs to have his license revoked, or at least forced training/upgrading. Why can't he use the aircraft's onboard equipment/electronics?? How did he get his license??
He got his license at Disneyland.
I think I get what's going on here. He had his paper charts loaded onto his iPad. He possibly had an IFR capable GPS in his aircraft but he didn't have it set up properly and possibly didn't know how to use it well enough to load the proper approach. Maybe he relied on the iPad charts to prompt him to find the correct approach in the GPS and didn't know how to do it otherwise. So when the controller issued him the waypoint JOSRU, he had no idea what that was, how to find it, probably even how to spell it. He didn't know what approach he was loading (RNAV RWY 8 @ MRB) and was overwhelmed both controlling the aircraft and trying to figure out the iPad problem and load an approach. He had become dependent on the iPad even though it perhaps wasn't technically the "primary" for navigation. So he froze and didn't know what to do, and didn't know how to ask for help properly or describe the problem properly. Yeah, poor preparation, definitely not up to date on his training is likely. I can't see any instructor putting up with that.
I'd give him a number to call. They find out if he is IFR-rated or if the plane is. Best ATC attitude!
I bet tower gave him a number once he got on the ground. No need to get him even more worked up.
Exactly. It’ll be a talk for the taxi in
Pretty sure he would have crashed during his attempt to write it down! 😅
1-800-douchebag
Best ATC I’ve ever heard. He deserves a raise.
What he was doing was illegal. Let’s hope he doesn’t lose his job.
“I’m gonna get in trouble if things don’t work out (like, say, if you auger straight into the ground)”
That's the problem it seems with a lot of private pilots these days. They like to have all these toys in the cockpit, but when they die they have no idea what the hell they're doing and never seem to have a backup. This controller was super patient with the guy and did an outstanding job. I just *really* hope this got followed up on by the FAA. I also hope that the pilot got scared enough to go back for more training that he obviously needs
Pilots are taught to use the iPad as a means of reference. We can not legally navigate with them regardless if it's vfr or ifr. We can use the iPad to pull up charts, maps and many other useful things but under no circumstances may we use it as a means of navigation. BTW on pilot check rides, at least mine - I was expected to have another means in case my iPad died. That could be another iPad or paper charts, my call but having only 1 means of reference does not fly
Seems like it might fly, but it doesn't do well at landing.
The capability and user-friendliness of consumer electronics makes it tempting to rely on them more than one should, and then when they die, you don't know what to do . . . this is why my EMT training required us to be able to navigate calls using old school printed street atlases, even though all of us were super early and aggressive adopters of navigation-capable smart phones.
@@dvpro12 is 1. 1is none! All this gadgetry is dumbing people down and they are substituting it for experience! I fully support carrying a stand along backup radio and gps using disposable type batteries. This is why I hate rechargeable batteries in certain things! You cant just pop a couple of AA energizers into an IPad and everything is suddenly good to go! Learn to use your instruments PROFICIENTLY and you may NEVER have to use an IPad in place of experience! Tech gets folks spoiled! Imagine what will happen if the government ever shuts off the gps signal to prevent terrorist attacks! There would be pandemonium!
It’s like TNFlygirl who died in dec and killed her dad as well when she was flying. In a lot of her videos she was using an iPad as well, but her situational awareness was always off and getting lost or going in circles. And she didn’t know how to properly work her autopilot system. Not even sure how she got her PPL.
I have no idea how the ATC stayed so calm and collected. Kudos to him
N7183 is a scary customer. If you're just buzzing about in the neighbor's cattle ranch or sheep pasture, maybe it's okay like go-karts in an abandoned garbage dump, but he doesn't seem to take flying seriously or that planes fall out of skies, etc. Just think if he were in fog or along a coastline... Plane might be good, but his brain is totally messed up.
Usually the case with Flying. Rich people are able to do it and don't think laws, rules, or common sense things apply to them.
@@Nicklin30112 Were you born a moron? Or did it happen later on?
@@Nicklin30112 somebody using an iPad in lieu of proper navigational equipment obviously isn't rich and skimping on pragmatic essentials to get by. Somehow your nasty bigotry is showing. Somebody rich might be a lousy pilot, but will lay out money for good equipment plus accessories. My neighbors who had ocean-going fishing boats weren't exactly rich, either, but nobody in right mind plays chicken with Alaskan seas and weather.
sOmeHowyOuRnAsTYbIgOTRYiSshOwing🤓🤓🤓
Another case of affluenza.
At first I thought he just didn’t have access to his approach plates. I was shocked to find he planned to use the GPS on his iPad as his primary navigation source for an approach. Incredible
Negative. He had the approach plates on the iPad, that was the only problem.
@@MaxMustermann-nd4uy Without his iPad he would still be able to identify the fixes using his aircraft nav database. It's a requirement for an aircraft to be certified to fly RNAV approaches.
So when he is unable to identify a fix... we all know the aircraft and/or pilot is not safe to navigate using RNAV.
He should request vectors to allow a descent somewhere in VFR/VMC, or declare an emergency.
Not to be that "back in my day" guy, but when I first started flying IFR, we had the big book of paper Jeppeson plates. Before any flight, I would pull out the plates for my main and alternate and laminate them and keep those and my home airport in my kneeboard. But I'd always have the entire book in my flight bag just in case as well as a handheld GPS for backup. I can't imagine relying on just an iPad to shoot an approach...
You had a handheld GPS back in your day? You must be fairly new then.
@@samborlon It was back in 1999 -- it only had major landmarks like airports and georgraphic features. Nothing like fixes or approaches.
I was th8nki g the same thing. I haven't flown a plane since 1992, ut I could have flown that approach with only one or two radio calls to approach, check in and sign off to tower.
I can't imagine relying on an iPad without a $200 used iPad as a back up or any mobile chargers. i dont leave my fucking house without a back up mobile charger in my damn car
@@RadioStaring
I often move chargers out of one car, and into another for trips and such... then forget to put them back. Easily done...
But if I was a pilot and using an electronic device as any sort of reference during a flight, I'd be bolting stuff into the plane... USB socket mounted on the panel, cable left in it, spare cables kept within reach, and carry 2 devices with the software and data necessary (tablet AND phone for example).
That's what happens when you loose GPS. It's called old school. And anyone should be able to follow vectors if you have a compass.
Well said, sir...
Vectors can only help so far without some kind of aid to get you below the cloud.
He didn't seem to be competent in ILS etc either (or didn't have a aircraft with it equipped)
He is a Millennial, he has to have everything spelled out on a glass panel. He can not read a magnetic compass, Steam gauges, dials / clocks and so on. He has to have everything digital / Glass flight deck.
Atc guy is just as dumb as the pilot and doesn’t use common sense either. Just using his script lines he was told to follow from ATC school without using his own common sense
@@user-jh5fm7ci6opilot sounds a bit older than that
I suppose I could argue that, since I have my EFB loaded on my phone, I have a backup for my tablet. But this definitely exposes the vulnerability of using only an EFB for charts.
I'm a non-pilot and old school, but I feel like if I had a planned trip to MRB, I'd print out the charts for the ILS 26, and the RNAV 8 and RNAV 26 approaches and have them in my flight bag, just in case.
@@dave30076 I always print out the approach plates at my destination and alternate when flying IFR. But even that isn't enough of a backup because you might have to divert to a totally different airport. I carry a paper terminal procedures publication in my flight bag when going IFR.
I was flying with a guy that lost his iPad communication in a busy area (VFR). He spent 5 minutes trying to get the thing to work until I finally piped up and said "fly the airplane - you're going the wrong way!!!" Was the last time I flew with him.
Sounds like that TnFlyGirl lady when she accidentally turned her GPS off. She didn't know east from west, and had no idea to look at the compass or the HSI.
This guy needs to go back to basics.. back to ground school.
Extremely patient and helpful controller.
“He’s not on the ground yet.” No matter how this turns out the end result willl be the pilot makes it to the ground.
Talking about him while he is still on frequency is awesome 😂 patience of a saint that controller has
the fact this guy did not end up in a spiral is already pretty amazing!
I think a lot of pilots today are so used to using I-pad mounted foreflight, they are no longer properly current on the IFR-equipment of the aircraft they are flying (that skill being so perishable)
We all want to know... did he land safely?
2nd lol. I'm sorry, but...WHAT?!?!
ATC did an amazing job here, he really really tried. The pilot was just...IDK.
That controller worked so hard to get the guy in safely. Stupid pilot refused to admit he had a problem and needed help. Just admit you have instrument problems and get the assistance needed. When you are on the ground, sort it out.
Single pilot IFR in a single-engine aircraft is by its nature a very high demand, low margin activity. A pilot must have mastery of their avionics, autopilot, and procedures before even attempting it. It’s not something you want to learn by trial and error. Self assess to identify what your weaknesses are, and work with a CFI and take additional courses to get better. Also, make sure that your panel-installed IFR certified GPS in the aircraft has the latest navigation database updates.
Practically speaking, you don’t ‘need’ approach plates to fly a GPS approach. Just press “procedure”, select the approach, and then select the initial approach fix. ATC is not going to give you an initial approach fix that is not on the published procedure, which is contained in your aircraft-installed GPS. Of course, you need to know the minimum altitudes, the DA or MDA, and the missed approach altitudes; but to laterally navigate on the approach, or if it is an LPV, the IFR GPS has everything you need.
If you’re the kind of person who can’t figure out how to get Netflix up and running on your TV or install a software application on your computer, then perhaps single-pilot IFR isn’t for you.
Know and master the tools that you have in your aircraft, so that you don’t kill yourself and potentially others. If you don’t know how to do something, or if don’t fully understand the “why” behind it, then work with someone to figure it out. Maintain proficiency, especially if you plan to fly IFR.
In order to comply with FAR 91.175, 91.103, and 91.1039, you must have current instrument approach plates to reference during the flight. If you’ve dropped your paper charts out the window, or if your iPad is dead, then you cannot continue to comply with the regulations from that point forward. The pilot should immediately and clearly communicate this to ATC. Preferably, the pilot should divert to the nearest airport where they are able to safely land VFR. If that’s not possible, then I would advise declaring an emergency. ATC will need to tell you what altitudes you can descend to on each part of the approach, as well as the DA or MDA. But if your aircraft-installed IFR GPS is still working fine, you should have no trouble navigating to the waypoints and along the approach course.
WHAT was that?? That was so uncomfortable to listen to.
Absolutely brutal. I wouldn't trust this guy on a ride on lawn mower. The ATC was incredibly patient.
Hope this incident gets the appropriate scrutiny and follow up.
How did this guy get his license?
I have an ATP with 14,000 flight hours; and have my approach plates on ForeFlight in my iPad. That being said, the FAA requires that I have a backup iPad or iPhone with ForeFlight in case my iPad fails. The iPad is used to bring up the approach plates but aircraft equipment is used to fly the approaches.
He’s what we call a “child of the magenta.”
Dude knows how to use his iPad but he doesn’t know how to load an approach in his onboard GPS equipment. His pilot’s certificate needs to be revoked!
Even children of the magenta line know how to load an RNAV approach. I seriously doubt this guy was Instrument rated.
@@ZeedePlus Yeah wouldn’t surprise me none.
@@ZeedePlus He didn’t have the approach plates therefore he couldn’t load anything into the GPS. Probably best if he had a backup charger or just asked
@@tomatosofficial1124 Approach plates are already loaded into your avionics assuming your databases are up to date. Depending on the capabilities of his avionics, he might not know the crossing altitudes, but at least he can get a course and usually an advisory glide slope.
Your iPad does not power your built-in avionics.
"I can't identify this junk that your talking about" 😮 i don't think this dude has use his onboard equipment since he got his rating.
I believe he said junction but cc typed junk
@@mrsaskridersjust watched it again. You are correct.
@@Farming-Technology thx
You are assuming he actually has a rating.
He's speaking so clearly I feel like I can almost understand what he's asking (I have 0 pilot/flight experience). If dude's flying and this confused that sounds mad dangerous.
Awesome voice. I felt like a scolded child just from listening.
Not only can you not legally use an IPad as primary navigation, but you are also required to have a back up to your IPad if you use is for charts. It can be another IPad, it can be a phone, it can be paper charts. But this is the exact reason they demand you keep a back up.
At my current experience level, and I had a bad/nonfunctional GPS unit (in other words, 100% of RNAV capability on the aircraft is inop), even if I had a good iPad, I'd feel i'd not be able to perform the RNAV approach regardless. KMRB does not have an ILS approach into RWY08 but it does into 26, and if weather is above minimums, one could elect a tight pattern aka a "circle to land."
I don't even have my IFR rating.
The controller did an excellent job
These two people see the gravity of this situation very differently. So many youtube accident videos show a lack of seriousness as a major cause of an accident.
Humility saves lives including your own!
"I have a number for you to call when you're ready to copy..."
Sorry can't copy a number, because my ipad died.
My iPhone is not making calls today. Something about a flat battery, whatever that is.
This is great inspiration for a new Sammy Hagar song.
"Well my iPad Died on the RNAV Approach"
"Well there's TOO much clouds, I can't fly, no {SLAMS YOKE}"
"give mew few hours so i can read docs how to fly. let the jet hang in the sky"
Way too many inexperienced weekend fliers in the USA, I'm am sure there would be way more GA incidents if it wasn't for helpful ATC like this.
This ATC was EXTREMELY patient and helpful 👍
Dear controller, as other comments all say, and as I'll pile in, you did a damned great job
As someone who flies around KMRB, their controllers are always the best. They handled this situation as best as they could!
This ATC is patient beyond belief.
Not a pilot, but I often listen to ATC recordings. This is the first time I've heard of such a thing
That controller needs an award.
This makes me think of the TnFlyGirl lady. A piece of non-attached hardware goes down, and she has no idea. This guy too. I'm a non-pilot, but do guys keep Jeppesen plates with them any more? Depending on the GPS, could he select ILS 26? I am guessing winds favored 8. Okay, if not 26, pull up the JOSRU waypoint in the GPS. It's a 078 heading into the runway from JOSRU.
I’m taking instructor classes and this has proved to be a valuable example we’ve been able to discuss in the context of required equipment and backups to EFB. Hope this guy gets some remedial training so he can be safe. This could have been really bad.
JOSRU is the new Fegelein.
lmao
FEGLIN
😂😂😂
Just wait until Martinsburg tower has the pleasure of dealing with him. Tower staffed by Air Guard. I once mistook the civilian hold short line for the military hold short and slammed on brakes as I crossed it and they were not pleased.
Someone is going to be getting a call from the FAA. Hard to deny this one.
Man that was uncomfortable to listen to
Wow 😮 he was actually in flight out there.
That was a bunch of hard work. Whatever license he may have had needs to be revoked 🙄 Get him in a sim where no one else would be at risk 🤨
What was the weather that day at the destination airport?
So keen for flight schools to use this as a “don’t trust technology” example for the next decade
I believe a 709 ride is in this guy's future.
ABC 123 UNME here, just want to say hi to all of the IFR ATP MULTI CFI CFII Type Rated Test Pilot Astronaut Starfleet Commanders in the chat. You guys are super cool 😂
'Most realistic session on flight sim ever!'
-the pilot
"Hey ATC, I am flying the approach on my tracfone and the battery just died, switching to my walmart burner, be back with you in a sec." OMG what an absolute disaster.
I want to buy that controller a beer!
That pilot should be suspended from flying for a period of time for his ignorance of not knowing what equipment he can, and cannot use for the type of flying he was doing. Go back and get a refresher course and then get rechecked. I’m surprised nobody mentioned fuel on board just so he could make sure he could get to the field or to an alternate field, but I guess that’s not the controllers problem
Holy crap, I'm pretty sure even I could follow simple instructions like "Left, heading 030" if instructed - and I'm not even a pilot.
Wow.,.. first time I've heard an atc call end with the word over! Any reason the controller did that? o.o
Why are people unable to turn to specific headings or hold an altitude?? does stuff like this just immediately get forgotten as soon as 'the computer does it all for me'?
REAL ATC ... you must finish the story. Did the aircraft land safely? This is where we are today. Pilots flying using an iPad. Yes, I am a pilot and I know pilots use iPads for charts and weather etc.etc. But it does sound like he was using the iPad for navigation. If he had the proper equipment on the airplane, he would have been able to pull the approach up, the waypoints etc.etc. and navigate to them. He would also see them on his display. That does not sound the case here. Sketchy. Dangerous.
There is a tiny piece of nuance here. You still need to brief the plate to shoot the approach, and if this guy is saying he can’t fly the approach because he doesn’t have a plate (I think he almost said that) then that’s rather different than him saying he’s flying the approach using iPad GUIDANCE. But still, pretty incompetent in both the comms department and the prep department. Not good.
Thanks how I interpreted it as well
Absolutely I was thinking the same thing and no one is saying it or mentioned it. I think he was just saying he didn’t have the approach chart to review it which is very important in doing an approach.
Don't fly now, got my PPL in 1981, my instructor would not even allow a calculator in case the batteries died ! Guess things have changed, and can still recall the fun of recovering from a full deliberate training stall.
But… not to excuse the pilot’s actions but, I am nearly certain that he is not trying to fly an RNAV approach using an iPad for navigation, he’s using it to see his approach plates. There’s nothing that’s not legal about that. It’s clear, however, that if you are going to do that you need a back up. I fly RNAV approaches all the time utilizing an iPad for the approach plates, but I also have the approach plates available on my two separate Avidyne navigators. I don’t know what navigation equipment this pilot has on board, but I doubt it is anything that has an approach plate display. As the saying goes, “two is one, and one is none.”
All too real. My favorite line as an instructor, when a student is stuck in their ipad. “Ok you see your ipad right?” Student: “yes got it!” Me: “now turn it off”
the pilot uses iPad to access his approach plates -- the IFR enabled (and installed) GPS does not provide the pilot with the detailed approach plate. That's what this pilot is trying to tell the ATC. Apparently the ATC does not understand (of course, without a paper backup approach plate is not a wised thing, but it is still legal).
Martinsburg is a regional airport that shares a runway with an ANG base flying C-17s. Depending on what's flying that day this pilot could have caused a lot of issues getting into the airspace unprepared. Martinsburg gets some neat stuff flying in from time to time. Often the smaller presidential 757's will practice here doing touch and goes since we are relatively close to DC.
Do they have C-17s now? They transitioned from C-130 to C-5 some time ago (that was a huge apron expansion, extension of 8-26, and decommissioning of 17-35). I did design on that airport when they still had the C-130s, flown in and out a lot (I'm a non-pilot). Heck, we've seen the VC-25 (747) do some approaches.
@dave30076 Yes, they mothballed the C-5s and converted to C-17s several years ago. They still have C-130s fly in every once in a while. Even the occasional C-5.
@@jkp41978 They had wanted to move directly from the C-130 to the C-17, but Robert Byrd (when he was alive) pulled the wrong strings and got them the C-5. They had to build a HUGE apron for those big boys. I think the apron is about 4 times the size it was (makes sense, about double the wingspan and double the length of the C-130). I think Charleston ANG still flies the C-130, and I bet they fly in some.
@dave30076 I didn't realize that. I knew he pulled strings to keep the base open. It was slated to be closed during BRAC from what I remember. So instead of closing they rebuilt just about everything on base including the 3 hangers to fit the C-5s. I remember the hangers they had before didn't even fit the c-130s. The one hanger had a hole in the door that the tail stuck through.
OH MY!!!!!
Question, to get them below the ceiling why didn't they try an ASR approach? I know it is not optimal but with sketchy equipment, which is probably an understatement, it seems an ASR approach would have been safer. Not all the way to runway but to the point VFR could be established.
It needs to be a published approach. ASRs are relatively rare. If the guy declared an emergency, atc might give him vectors if the ceiling was safe enough.
@@chrisscott1547 not arguing. Just for info purposes. Is an ASR only used if the approach is published? Granted they are rare and something has gone bad if needed.
Unless it's an emergency, (where pretty much anything goes) I think so. I never flew an asr but I did do some PAR approaches - where specialized radar equipment and training was required.@@silverstacking1013
Amazing controller!!
"...my iPad died....I can't identify this junk that you're talking about." YIKES. That must have really raised the mental alarms of the ATC.
If your instruments revolve around an iPad, why wouldn't you have a portable charger?
I genuinely thought the title was "dad died"...glad that wasn't the case.
Amazing controller 👌
So atc said "we can pull up the ILS". Is ILS not always turned on? If not, why is it turned off?
Yea, an Ipad can help with SA, but it's not an approved IFR navigation device for doing an approach last I checked.
A little spooky if that's how he actually does approaches. Praying to God no one flies with him in bad weather and ends up dead thinking the pilot knows what he's doing.
So, the iPad and RNAV approaches. True, it is NOT legal, UNLESS you say one certain phrase. That phrase, "I am declaring and emergency". Then, FAR 91.3 comes into play. Now, there is no way to fly a precision approach on an iPad unless you have a Sentry or similar device. However, you CAN fly an LNAV, LOC, or VOR approach because the lateral flight path will be depicted on the map. You just need to fly the step downs. The weather was well above minimums for the LNAV for runway 8. I fly at least two of these types, with a safety pilot or in the sim, when I am doing my currency training. If my panel goes to hell, at least I know how, and that I CAN, get on the ground with my G5 to keep me upright, and the iPad to fly the approach.
If the iPad dies, as in this case, declare the emergency. ATC will help you with all of the tools that they have. Of course, I also have my iPhone that is synced to my iPad so it has all of the same information. In IFR, redundancy will save your life.
The controller is a star. The pilot, not so much.
He is flying IFR, and is unable to operate the airplane navigation equipment. It makes little difference if the malfunction is in the plain or the pilot, the result is the same.
How does someone get IFR rated if they are dependent on an IPad??? I’m truly curious
Hindsight is always 20:20, but some really good learnings in this one.... The problem here is the ipad and the associated apps (like ForeFlight) are very intuitive and this guy probably got into the habit to the point where he was using it as a crutch. Once it died he was completely lost in the brain... I know they are sexier than traditional charts and have great functionality but you can't try to navigate the plane using that thing. Plus just like an airplane, redundancy is key. If a pilot was going into IMC you don't think you'd have some kind of portable battery pack/charger as a back up for the ipad? Great job by ATC. Pilot should've immediately said ipad died, do not have access to approach plates or IFR charts, need vectors and the frequency for an ILS approach.
This sounds like a pilot that only flies IFR by staring at the little airplane on the iPad because they don’t know how to program his own aircraft. Whoever got this guy his rating or signed off his last IPC did him a complete disservice.
Excellent controller. FAA, please take that pilot’s certificate. Ridiculous.
It's hard to tell because most of the conversation is one-sided, but it sounds like he's using the iPad for the approach plate. The GPS can find the waypoints, but won't tell you what altitude you need.
Can someone help with the context please? Is ILS so uncommon in US, that the ATC is trying to get the guy on an RNAV approach for (presumably) over 30 minutes, even it is clear at some point, that he is unable? I cant imagine saying "unable RNAV" and still being forced to go to an RNAV fix in Europe, I would immediately get vectors to ILS