Cessna C-182 VIOLATES RESTRICTED AIRSPACE | "You have an F-16 above"
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2021
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Check your Notams, please.
CORRECTION: AIRCRAFT LIKELY TO BE CESSNA C-182 MILITARY REGISTRATION 89-0265 AND NOT N90265 (RETIRED). SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE.
Joe could read out relevant NOTAMs during press conferences. People would pay attention then.
I was wondering...I was recording for my channel, when I saw the F-16 (and heard him) boogying down south FAST. So this is why.
FYI, the army aircraft is actually a C182. There’s also some additional audio for it on the Hudson advisory 123.05. Difficult to make out at some points but it’s there.
@@gmills5763 nobody would understand the gibberish
@@MoonRambo702 Gibberish, eh? You should hear me talk before I have my first cup of coffee….I am a hot mess. lol 😂😂😂😂😂
"They're not intercepting us, right?" LMAO IM DYING
Lol important information to include
"nonononononono" ded too haha
The best.
I know right. That was the best part of this recording.
Troy never fear
"He's not intercepting us, right?"
The absolute nervous sweat could be felt through the radio.
Imagine hearing “You have a jet flying above.” and “We have a number for you to call.” in the same day, F
"Uhhh, approach. Copy all that. Uhhhh, can you have someone meet my airplane with new underwear and pants? Or maybe just roll a firetruck and I'll get out and bend over.... in which case you could also send the FAA and Air Force out to do whatever they have planned for me."
@Echo Mirage Depends on the circumstances. The guard unit probably sent them a nice bottle of something.
And being callsign Target
The airplane below is an Army Pentagon plane. Generals personal flight. Imagine starting a war from within your F-16 aiming at your bosses boss.
@@medicchester i was thinking- someone somewhere did NOT get the memo. Scrambled a military jet on the military. 🤡
Heard about this on the news this morning and immediately said "oh I cannot wait for this to show up on VAS later today" haha.
Same lol
Same here. I just saw the Philly Interception video yesterday. As soon as this was on the news, I waited for this video.
VAS is ALWAYS quick with it.
For everyone wondering why the pilots had a hard time finding their TOI, its because their radars are not built for searching in a city environment. Fighters are also used to being directed by a air controller, either on land, airborne as well, or sea based. They then use their radars to acquire a target once its in their borescope. This assumes they have empty air or space for some distance beyond the target, which allows your operator to distinguish between real and fake. With a fighter at high speed, trying to acquire a target in NYC at low altitude, theyre just looking at a sea of false tracks. It would be very hard to do
Thanks for the analysis :-)
He coulda just opened Flightradar24 on his phone😂 multimillion dollar aircraft can’t even get adsb in.
Thankyou! Now when you say it, it is kind of obvious, but I wasn't aware of the limitations of high speed and radars in a city environment. Feeling educated. Thanks!
@@MoonRambo702 lots of VFR aircraft all squawk the same M3, it would still be hard to tell. This also assumes the aircraft in question has their M3 on, seeing as how they clearly cant follow notams i wouldnt be surprised
It must be incredibly nerve-wracking to fly directly through some of the busiest airspace in the world.
Rumors say Noble 12 is still waiting for a DME.
LOL
Fuckin’ viper guys…
All that tax dollars spent on NORAD & the Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) & the CAP pilots are still getting target intercept vectors from regular old ATC...
Atc was giving him the passive aggressive DME in tenths of a mile.
@@user-gq7kg4pc1u As a person who used to work as a controller in an air defense sector it is super frustrating to hear them asking for BRAA's from ATC.
Also, not important but NEADS is now simply EADS.
“We have found the enemy, and it is us.”
Preparing to engage us. We really wont know what hit us after we're through with ourselves
Pogo Possum would do a better job.. Much Adieu About Nothing.
This sounds like a line from Catch 22.
@@ridernotrunner nope-- it's the ever-loving blue-eyed possum, Pogo. You probably don't know the name, Walt Kelly.
Troy 194 is gonna need a new pair of underwear after thinking the intercept was for him
Troy 194 is a Homeland Security helicopter too😂😂
@@CodBoomer18 that makes it so much better 😂😂
Either noble 1 is a universal callsign or this guy has a busy career intercepting Cessnas/ pippers
it's a mission callsign. noble 1 as in operation Noble Eagle. i don't think they typically use pilot callsigns. i
@@Commissar0617 callsigns are rotated thru units in a bidding process
He was noble 01 on Philly intercept 3 weeks ago.
Noble is the callsign of the F-16's out of joint base Andrews in DC. So the F-16's all are most likely from Andrews and just flew to the TFR's and held there.
Its a noble job anyways.
That pilot’s day/week got very bad! I was laughing when the other guy asked ‘are they for me?’ I’d be a bit panicked if I heard a couple F-16 were near me too!
02:38 -> 02:55 TROY194, "Okay, they're not intercepting us, right?" right!?
That was the best, especially the ATC response "No, no, no, not you guys" 😂 should be made standard phraseology!
Ya, laughed out loud to that one! :)
👍👍👍👍
I bet the small lavatory on the plane was used after that chat, "Hey Stewardess.... Need more TP in here..." :D
Same energy as "are you mad at me, mom?"
I hope in my years of flying to come, I am not referred to as a "target"
Check for notams and tfrs each and every time you fly and should be good
Lol I hosted an air show at my airport two weeks ago on 9/11 and had coordinated a memorial flyby from a USAF C-130. Pilot called me right before taking off and advised “ToT of 12 noon”. I responded “Is it normal to feel a little uncomfortable when a C-130 gunship refers to me as a Target?” He laughed pretty hard.
To anyone with active warshots on board, I gather *everyone else* is a target. :-)
I was flying south along the coast over Virginia Beach, flight following with ATC.
Controller called out traffic to me as an F14 coming in from training over the ocean. When he told the F14 about me, the fighter replied, "Roger, I've been following that target for a while."
Yeah, being called a target is frightening.
Noble 12 : "Approach I need a bra".
Approach: "Roger. Fly direct MACYS"?
When did the USAF start using such stupid acronyms? jeez. (old navy guy).
@@KB4QAA Bearing Range Altitude (from the F16 to the TOI). It's a standard military intercept method and been in use for decades. Just clearly not something the controller in this case has used before.
"Better make it Victoria's Secret; I got a date!"
@@noisytwit In the navy it's called, "Bogey Dope", "Contact info/data" is even more clear and used as well. Nonetheless, using BRA jargon with ATC is silly.
@@KB4QAA Bogey Dope is the brevity call for all relevant (we'll call them targets for ease) targets and the intercept controller (GCI) provides that data using BRA, either direct from the fighter to the target or from a bullseye which is a pre defined location everyone knows about.
BRA is a cross service, universal radio call to create rapid situational awareness in combat aviation. And is used by every single modern air force and has been for decades. As I said before, the civilian controller clearly hadn't heard its used or understood it, or didn't hear what the F16 requested.
Eother way, its not a USAF only call, its not silly, it does work (when the other end understands) and its going to be around a long time.
He called it the Tappen Zee. That warmed my heart.
Yo right?!? ❤️
I know right?! Fucking awesome
TAP for life! Looks like Fredo is about to face the same consequences as his brother. Hopefully they will change it back. Victims of sexual assault and harassment shouldn't have to see the Coumo name on their daily commute regardless of which family member it's named after.
YES! :D
I don't exactly miss the Tappan Zee, but I do miss its name. Easily my favorite name for a bridge ever.
He’s not saying “active decent,” it’s “active air defense,” meaning I’m proceeding with or without your approval.
I was confused by that part. Thanks!
I thought Blackjack1 was saying active intercept.
This channel mis-subs a lot of stuff.
@@DinnerForkTongue tbf he said active decent in the audio
No, it was active decent
I live near the Tappan Zee Bridge and heard that F-16 and my wife and I were wondering what it was all about. Thanks for clearing it up!
the best thing about being in a cessna is that literally no rules apply to you. "whats a heading?" "cessna 172 clear to land, longest runway at LAX" "what frequency do I use?" "whats a localizer?" "just passing"
The […] at 5:55 is ‘skip it’ - military speak for disregard the target.
Cool thing to know, thanks for sharing mate!
"They're not intercepting US right?!?"
Lol, moment of terror
You and plNe might b shot out of space,ild fly in the right direction as fast as plane would go.last thing I would want to b downed by armt that's the last thing I'd remember perm
"he's not intercepting us is he?"
I gotta say man, that one had me snickering pretty good. I can imagine the feeling of the blood running out of your head for a moment...
Interesting to hear the difference in military vs civilian ATC procedures and training.
Its like listening to two different languages. Or two different accents.
@@Gabriel-se9el not really
military readbacks sound like shit
Tappan Zee Bridge. Hahaha, NO ONE calls it the Mario Cuomo Bridge...
As a New Yorker, I found that hilarious.
That’s how it is depicted on the charts
@@NBT2469 As a definitely not New Yorker but who goes that way, we still call it the Tappan Zee Bridge and probably will for quite a long time still. It'll be the next generation after my kids, who also call it TPZ, who will ask "why do you call it that Grandpa?"
The next step in its evolution will be "It's what used to be called the Tappan Zee Bridge." but still no mention of its new name. Just like the building that used to be called the Sears Tower in Chicago. ◡̈
I legit thought I made a wrong turn last time I drove through there. I don’t always go that route and I kept seeing signs for a Cuomo bridge and thought I was loosing my mind.
I believe Blackjack is saying he’s on active air defense, not active descent. Blackjack is the USCG call sign for Blackhawk intercepts of slower planes in that area.
Interesting tidbit: by Army regulations all deviations are supposed to be reported via the chain of command. As Army pilots, we were always taught that if tower wants you to call them or a FSDO, instead direct them to the unit. This is because if you do hold an FAA license (not all Army pilots do), the FAA isn't really supposed to be able to punish you if you were performing flight duty for the Army. Of course, you'll face punishment from your unit, but the FAA doesn't generally have jurisdiction over Army pilots on duty.
(At least this is how it was taught to me, thankfully I've never had to test this!)
and they should not have jurisdiction over Army pilots on duty.
Unless your an one to four star general or retired.
Probably had a general onboard flying it.
Generals can make the regulations within a wims notice or one second.
Generals aren't allowed or have the choice not to report themselves publically plus to report their where about is within their own choice.
So do I understand that the Air Force was deployed to intercept an Army airplane flying down the Hudson River?
Essentially, yes. It doesn't matter who you work for, if that part of the Hudson River is a current temporary presidential air space and you fly into it, you're going to get intercepted if you're not permitted to be there.
from what i understand it was a training flight out of west point
@@avi8tor131 which means it should've been allowed, but it's possible someone goofed the paperwork.
@@avi8tor131 seems like they need training to read the notams.
@@BillySugger1965 They may have been permitted but something got messed up in between getting everything ticked off and signed.
Yes, that is the Tappan Zee, always will be.
Flying along without a care in the world when a warning pops up on your flight instruments : "Current objective: survive"
I love that the controller calls out the bridge as the Tappan Zee, rather than the "official" name. He must be an old timer.
Nobody is ever going to call that thing anything but the Tappan Zee Bridge. I'm a lifelong hard-core Democrat, and it's the Tappan Zee Bridge. For one thing, you can't ever expect the reaction to a re-naming that comes from an initial naming. (I don't know if Reagan Airport is an exception, but still.) For another, it's called that because it spans a stretch of the Hudson River called The Tappan Zee. If they wanted to re-name a bridge, it would have been helpful to pick one not previously named for its geography.
@@CinemaDemocraticaalso, that's a Dutch name and is important to preserve as part of the history of New Netherlands.
Doh! Bet it will be a tense AF vs Army football game this year
Hahahaha!!!
Air Force will issue a NOTAM blocking entry into their end zone...
The chant will be something like "Hudson River corridor" lol
@@pistonburner6448 Unless the Army offer up that plot as the ball.
I live in a high rise by the Hudson, I could not believe the sound of that F16 going up the Hudson, not at 7000...also saw the target plane flying directly over the Hudson...I wondered what happened...P.S. and as a local here, thanks for calling it the Tappan Zee Bridge, not the gov cuomo bridge...
When Governor Andrew Cuomo (NY-D) resigned I jokingly said “Will the bridge be renamed ‘the new Tappan Zee Bridge’?”
@@ScottRothsroth0616 There was a call recently to change it back to the old name, which I prefer, as a New Yorker.
@@NBT2469 I didn’t know there was a call to official change it.
As a [in spirit] New Yorker (my family moved out of the state when I was young) I agree with the measure.
@@ScottRothsroth0616 do people think it's named after him? It's named after Mario Cuomo.
@@Rob-vy6zx The sins of the son must be visited on his long dead father. But I am not particularly wedded to the name change from Tappan Zee, either.
Noble 12 "Too close for missiles, I'm switching to guns!"
F-16 have a gun pod or built in guns? I surprised they not use A-10s and fly low and slow and has big Gatling gun.
@@ronniereams5334 F-16s have always carried an internal gun on the left side, behind the cockpit. You want to use a nimble and very fast fighter jet for intercept missions because the Target Of Intercept (TOI) might be far away, and the interceptor needs to reach them quickly. Additionally, A-10s do not have radar systems to find targets or use radar-guided missiles since they're only designed for ground attack missions. The only air-to-air missiles A-10s can carry are infrared guided (heat seeker) AIM-9 Sidewinders. In practice, the AIM-9s are a last resort for self-protection.
Army 265: "I'm going to hit the brakes - he'll fly right by"
@@ronniereams5334 They would have to admit that A10 is actually a needed platform.
They are actually always hot.
"The Cessna 182 is owned by the United States Military Academy at West Point and was being flown by an Army instructor pilot, the academy said in a statement." News article should say "former Army instructor pilot" now.
"The instructor has been reassigned to the Academy's Sanitation and Waste Disposal Department," an Army spokesman added.😁
what size pile of potatoes did he have to peel after that one?
I used to work with some guys who decided to do some weekend sightseeing of NYC in their Cessna. They got a call on the guard frequency that they were in Class B airspace and that the interceptor was on the way. Didn't hear much about them flying after that.
Best part was when they called the bridge Tappan Zee instead of Cuomo.
Everyone calls it the Tappan Zee. No one calls it the Cuomo bridge. Nothing new.
Tappen Zee sound sooo much cooler.
@@Nopenopenopenope28 now that he’s gone we should change it back
Pretty much the same way nobody called the original TZ bridge the Malcolm Wilson bridge or the road the Thomas Dewey Thruway. I wish they would ban roads, bridges, and tunnels from being named after politicians.
FUAC
F16 pilot trying to talk to a civilian ATC like it's an AWAC or controller LOL
Be advised: the A/C call sign was Army 90265 (R90265) not “N90265” in accordance with military flight regulations.
As soon as I heard about this on the news, I came here to see and hear what actually* happened. Keep it going!
LGA Tower...man when he came on I instantly thought about Sully.
The controller sounded like Patrick...
Troy 194 had the cleanest Mic Audio I’ve ever heard.
ARC radios have distinctly clear transmission and especially clear reception and tone (hint airplane spotters). ARC in Boonton, NJ had a lot of talent swap with Western Electric in Cherry Hill, NJ. Collectors now restore RT 328 models, but you need the tray and wiring.
Ouch interesting high level meeting afterwards when AirForce and US Army discuss restricted areas importance :) Interesting clip on how difficult New York airspace is and difficult for fighters with their speed to keep visual to their target over a city
Feel sorry for the F-16 pilot. Having to fly, run the radar, communicate and look for the target. As far as radar is concerned, pulse search would be nearly useless unless he can get below the TOI. Doppler would be just as useless, the TOI would be in the velocity notch or so close it would be hard to see on the display. He may have some luck with boresight auto lock mode, but usually is pulse frequency and clutter would cause maddening break locks. That's a weakness in our defense. I wish the DOD would have the ability to acquire or hire very high performance turboprop aircraft with good sensors to get into the weeds with some of the small planes that violate restricted areas in big cities.
But a turboprop plane doesn't quite have the same impact of a modern fighter showing up in visual range of your little puddlejumper.
@@dragsys That's the mistake of the offending pilot. IMO, having a high performance fighter doing intercepts within urban environments is asking for severe problems. A turboprop capable of 400kts top speed would be fine. Things will happen slower, the maneuverability at slow speeds is much better and smaller caliber weapons can be used. The possibility of collateral damage with M61A2 Vulcan cannon on low (3,500 rounds per minute) is immense. I don't know if the F-16 can select rpm or total rounds fired as in the Tomcat, but 20mm HE does alot of damage. The F-16, F-15 and F-22 is still overhead for high cover.
Now you're asking Guard units to inventory multiple airframes, which means doubling pilots on standby, increasing number of maintainers, etc. It's not going to happen.
@@cup_and_cone Why? You lease the airframes, which was done when I went through training (T-47s). No issues with up time, the T-47s actually had a better up rate than T-34Cs. I'm sure many pilots that are now, or will be, in commuter turboprops or instructor pilots currently in Super Tucanos/PC9s would like to get some extra hours. Why does it have to be Guard units? An active duty unit could be stood up to take on the duty. The only issue I see is logistics to get to all points in the US. The turboprops would have to preposition, as do many pieces of equipment (Limo for one), so it would be a long flight to the west coast/Alaska.
@@markfrost8745 this is why CBP/DHS helos are often used for point defense. It's a more better suited platform.
I live in Upper Manhattan and heard a very loud plane overhead yesterday....guessing this is the reason.
I mean, you live in Manhattan. It could have been any number of planes.
@@joeg5414 this was way louder than the airliners from LGA
It's ok, the F-16 won't hurt you.
It was an Army Cessna 182. Approach asked for the “type of aircraft” and he said “Cessna 182”
Great coordination from ATC
Uhmm, it did feel like he was lost when Noble requested basic info such as DME or BRA. It was a good job in the end, but there's definitely room for improvement
@@TFE6979 sure, but he might have been doing something else at that time. Definitely room for improvement, but he manages to separate other traffic from Noble and the TOI, while providing vector to Noble.
@@timotegregoire627 agreed!
DCS taught me how to give a pretty good Bearing Range Altitude(BRA) reading.
It give me a little buzz when i hear real pilots ask for it like "oh! OH! i know wha that means! I can do that!"
My first reaction :"As if ATCs don't have enough work ..."
After 9/11 I saw a video about atc and air force communications. They said it's all fixed. Sounds like they didn't fix everything
Considering some/most/all of that controllers airspace had been emptied out by the TFR... the controller probably had some spare brain cells.
I agree though... the 3rd and 4th vector/BRAA request from Noble began to annoy me. He is moving fast and has lots to do... but Sister Mary Franics... keep SA on the target once you have it visual...
@@jamescollier3 Nope. The ATC stated he could not switch to freq 123.05 WTH?
@Vienna Emmy I would guess 90% of TV is just wrong
@@xander395 he probably had it but saw the West Point markings on it and was like "are you shitting me?!"
This sent chills straight down my spine!, and I'm sitting in an office 200 miles away! Victor, this work of VASAviation deserves both an Emmy and Peabody Award!!
I listen to these intercepts hoping to hear the pilot getting intercepted realize they messed up so badly that they are getting intercepted by a fighter jet, but we don't seem to get there much.
By the time you've gotten to that point, you've already screwed up in multiple other grievous ways that 99% of pilots never do. Why expect such a person to react with appropriate regret and awareness?
The one from KPHL recently almost got there, the errant pilot switched from ctaf
Well they are also actively flying a plane. If they’ve messed up enough to get an F16 called on them, one can assume they’ve got their hands full. Step one is getting back on the ground safely. Exuding regret and woeful emotion is not too high up on the priority list at that time.
But don’t worry, it will hit once he’s back home and the adrenaline has worn off.
Am I right in thinking a fighter jet is both fast and nimble? Must be a bunch of fun for ATC to keep that weaving in and out of the traffic.
Always check the weather and NOTAMS before you fly anywhere. All the apps that are out there you should have no reason to get into bad weather or TFRs.
Interesting to see something out of the ordinary. I'm an instructor out of KHPN right next to the Tappan Zee and know all that area like the back of my hand. I wasn't working at the time this happened unfortunately.
who cares
@@palmdc8 I thought it was interesting. It's a RUclips comment not a blockbuster movie. The bar is pretty low, your "who cares" is the unneeded comment.
@@palmdc8 you cared to respond so clearly you do
Tapan Zee bridge….not Mario Cuomo. 😂😂😂😂😂
After listening to a lot of the 9/11 transmissions, and now this, I'm learning fighter jet radar capabilities aren't as Hollywood as they have been made out to be over the years.
Two words: ground clutter.
True. Also, airliners don't crash when the pilot can't get in contact with ATC. ;)
It’s also because you’re dealing with an F16
I've always been under the impression that all the advanced gear they have is highly capable but buggy to the point of being unreliable many times.
F-16s aren't designed to shoot down Cessnas at low speed and altitude. In combat, aircraft like that would be defended by a CIWS, SAM battery or a MANPADS system like Stinger or Starstreak.
The interception videos are by far my favorite lol
At 0:28, he read back his assigned altitude incorrectly and the controller didn't catch it.
Army 90265 is a Cessna 182, part of the West Point Aviation Program, not a Navy TC-45
OK, I still can't figure out exactly what happened, I know an aircraft breached the TFR zone, and an F-16 was dispatched to intercept it, but what was that last part with Army and the phone #? Was the army plane the one that breached the TFR?
Yes, the Army plane was a pilot instructor from West Point involved in an engineering class. The plane is based out of Stewart in Newburgh, NY. The phone number was likely for a “possible” pilot deviation.
We have found the enemy....and they are us.
Being asked to take down a phone number is the FAAs nice way of having a “come to Jesus moment” with you.
@@evracer Sounds exactly like the America I'm living in.
@@INSIDEHARDWARE like when mom and dad say we need to talk and you think of everything you have done in the past and present life.
When that 182 pilot looked out the window and saw a fully armed F-16 he probably wished he had brought an extra set of underwear!
In military ,when fighter request “BRAA” (bearing,range,altitude,aspect) to the TOI , just simply give those four information
I was flying a Mooney from St. Petersburg, Florida to Myrtle Beach a week and a half ago on an IFR flight plan and must have had three close encounters with pairs of F-16s coming up the coast from JAX. ATC pointed out the traffic. It was cool to see them but also a bit disconcerting.
SPG is my homebase, lots of military activity up north especially the panhandle going thru MOA's. Had 6 F22's in front off me one day with ATC of course into MOA, didn't mind though.
JAX airport is fun to fly into. It is shared military and civil use. When I flew in there, there was a pair of F-15's on approach for the other runway ( Rwy 8 & 14) that I was following.
Though Florida lacks some landscape for scenic flying, it still has its fair share of points of interest for flying. If you're in the spacecoast area, I can recommend checking out the NASA shuttle landing facility. Friendly folks there, will usually let you land. Though if tower is closed but Orlando approach is in a good mood, they'll let you do a low approach over one of the world's longest runways which is what I did for my first flight after earning my private ticket.
@@publicmail2 Yep, SPG is mine as well. Our little towered aircraft carrier on the shores of the Tampa Bay.
@@CptDoge The Shuttle runway low approach is on my bucket list for sure!
All that technology…..and still an incredibly difficult intercept
no kidding - throw a little IMC in there and its a no-joy situation pretty quick
Unfortunately radar doesn’t work well at ground level against an urban background.
And hey, it should be pretty hard getting those Heat-seekers or radar-guided missiles to work in an environment like that against a plane like a Cessna...Sometimes the simplest aircraft will give you the most trouble
@@TFE6979 That's why North Korea still fields An-2 biplanes. The idea is to fly them over the DMZ too low and slow for fighters to intercept and drop dumb bombs in something of a terror campaign.
@@TFE6979 It was simple aircraft that doomed the battleship Bismarck.
We saw this from our roof in the heights. The fighter did a sharp turn at about 160th St.
"Real pilots don't check notams"
- Jim Inhofe, pilot and US senator
“notams are a bunch of garbage, that no one pays attention to”
- Robert Sumwalt Chair of the NTSB.
@@Watermalone119 yes, but Robert didn't say that after he had landed on a closed runway.
Army 90265 is not N90265... he reported his type as a C182 out of SWF.
Oh, my apologies if that's the situation. I was unable to find any other information regarding 90265
Yeah, this has been reported elsewhere as an Army Cessna 182 and that's what the intruding aircraft identified himself as when questioned by ATC.
Picture appeared to be USMC AC no wonder he caused confusion.
Hmmmmm... I did see a USMC PAT flight scoot through southern nj yesterday Heading that way.. but iirc that was a twin, not a high wing.
Right after 9/11 a pair of F-16's intercepted a Cessna near Washington DC and escorted him to KJYO. It was hilarious to watch from the ground because the F-16's couldn't fly that slow, so they kept shooting past him and making a holding loop back around behind him. Caused one heck of a racket having two F-16's circling at 2,000 feet over the suburbs.
That eight stacks map reference near Lawrence Point made me draw a total blank for a minute. NYPA. lol
That TOI (Army) would have been an exercise aircraft which is used to test intercept procedures. This routinely happens with NORAD.
The title is wrong. It was a Cessna 182, not a Beech TC-45.
Can confirm it was a Cessna. Recorded him getting escorted northbound
Did anyone notice the bad readback at 0:30? Controller gave him 3500 ft. not 3000.
Yeah. I guess the controller thought it wasn't worth arguing with an F-16 over 500 feet.
That communication at the end where Noble 12 was telling NY TRACON they were being instructed to hold in that position… am I correct in interpreting it as Andrews was instructing Noble 12 to hold and NY TRACON then had to warn them that there’s plenty of traffic in the area?
In other words, Andrews was directing Noble 12 to hold in crowded airspace and should’ve let N90 direct them out of NY airspace?
Noble 12: What's our vector, Victor?
You always do a great job on these vids, but I would humbly suggest getting some help with the transcript portion. I'm sure lots of people are in a position to help and would want to do so. "service" at the 25 sec mark (roughly) was "surface." Controller said, "stop the descent at 3500 if you'd be so kind for now." The pilot then reads back 3000 :)
I notice a lot of read-back errors on this channel and I almost never hear them corrected by ATC -- which is probably survivorship bias in reverse, but still.
On 9/22 (today) there was a pilot that got angry.
Another pilot said: patience is a virtue
Another pilot ( probably the first pilot) said: “my wife says I don’t have any. This was on PHX GND (South) at 7:55-7:57 PM
I love the difference in millitary and civilians comms. That viper basically had to beg for DME and BRAA lol.
At ~5:55 of the video, the audio is "NOBLE12, Yes. I've been instructed to [just skip it], looking for vectors and a climb back to the cap."
At ~6:22, what's actually said is ". . . maintain my current position, current altitude, essentially a holding position here . . ."
Army pilot screwed the pooch big time..
The admiral's pooch?
I hope he was wearing protection. LMAO!
I've heard the military pilots ask for BRA information (bearing, range, altitude), but I've never heard ATC use that format. Is this something civilian ATC is trained on?
Joint military/civilian airport controllers would use BRA calls frequently. Pure civilian controllers no, hence why they almost never give an actual BRA when requested by a military pilot.
ATC for 35 years and I had to look it up.
@@CRWTower that's about as clear as answer as I could have asked for! 😃
@@lukewalker3905 I would only give a BRA, if I worked at Victoria's Secret. LMAO!
maybe if they play DCS on their downtime
Someone is going to get blown away one of these days!
Imagine F-16 with a kill on the side of his plane of a picture of a Cessna 172
Imagine a plane full of Army officers getting intercepted by an F16 from the 113th FW. Wonder who's ass is getting chewed here.
Good thing he had no intentions of doing anything nefarious, because he had plenty of time to do it.
There's not much you can do to stop a plane in the air over a city. What are you going to do, shoot it down over the busy streets below? They send the jet out probably to escort the plane in case it was experiencing communication failure.
Just once I'd like one of these slow movers to get down low and slow, say down to ~80 knots or find a good headwind and basically just sit there stationary in the air, just as a giant "fvck you, stall boy" to the F16's etc.
Trevor Jacob has entered the chat.
A couple of 20 mm will make sure they are staying down
I love that it's one of their friends that busted.
Was that Citation Max taking off in White Plains towards the end? Hahaha
But the Cessna never actually violated the tfr. They intercepted ahead of time as a precaution. The Cessna was still several miles away from the tfr
The point is to intercept before the TFR, not after, in case the aircraft didn't know it was there or has some issue.
Now we know if the terrorist go old school on their aircraft the fighters can't find them
No wonder so many current restrictions on rc aircraft and drones.
It reminds me of how the PO-2, a Russian 1920s biplane, is the only biplane with a confirmed jet kill. A PO-2 in the Korean war was so slow that when an F-94 tried to intercept it, the F-94 stalled and crashed.
@@EriJ100 The old outdated biplanes that the Bismarck couldn't adjust for...
Who needs planes when you can use controlled demolition instead!!!!!! Never forget!
That was my first thought too. A BIG HOLE in our air defense system.
flying a fighter in NYC airspace must be a nightmare, super busy and you are the lowest priority for the controller who is also directing 10 airliners that need to get somewhere on time and safely.
Cessna Pilot was an Army Instructor from West Point.
Need to start teaching these controller BRAA. It's easy enough and it seems like more and more people are violating TFRs now.
BRAA?
@@FlightSimulatorXATC Bearing/Range/Altitude/Aspect. Is is how a military pilot receives information on a target. Always delivered the same way to minimize errors and speed up comms.
Civilian controllers do not usually have a need to deliver information that way...
Good. New York's class B needs a few bruises like a city cab, like it used to be.
@@xander395 IS BRAA common for fighter pilots in all branches of the military? Thanks. #LearnSomethingNew
@@NBT2469 Yep... BRAA is one of many brevity terms that is used throughout American (and NATO) forces. Other users would include non-NATO nations that are tend to do exercises with the U.S. (Japan, S. Korea, Australia, etc).
Its so everyone can understand everyone else. You can google NATO brevity terms for a list (kinda long... some are actually pretty funny. You can tell someone had a tad bit of fun with it...)
Why do the Nobles have such a hard time finding these errant aircraft, needing constant ATC vectoring? Is their cockpit workload too high? Does the US Airforce need to revert to two seaters with a RIO? I'm glad they aren't intercepting truly hostile targets like MIG's or Sukov's...
Even in the real world they have constant vectoring from a military air controller (thats what i do) The radars are built for lock on and intercept, not search. They can search but have a incredibly hard time in a coastal or cluttered area, which NYc would be. Every single building would come up as a target
And isn’t NYC one of the busiest airspace’s in the world?
1. How would he know who is and isn’t a target?
2. If there were less aircrafts, I feel like there wouldn’t be need for all the formalities. Fly faster, change altitude… as desired without needing to tippy toe
Would I be correct in assuming the Noble aircraft don't have ADS-B receive capability? So far all the aircraft intercepted by the Nobles over the US have been benign idiots not following the rules so their ADS-B should have been functioning. Maybe equpping the Noble aircraft with ADS-B receiving and plotting capabilities would make everyone's life easier, except the target of course.
Time they start putting an E3 up when there's a TFR like this.
@@TheNapalmFTW honestly surprised there isnt already one
1100 directly over the Hudson is normally uncontrolled, was there a temporary flight restriction over new york?
Wow. An Army aircraft caused this mess? Also curious what type of aircraft Blackjack1 is, and why they can't switch their transponder?
Some googling suggests Blackjack1 is USCG ... maybe a Eurocopter HH-65
Also, N90265 appears to be owned by a museum - maybe a sightseeing flight.
Military aircraft on intercept are assigned specific IFF codes. Blackjack 1 was also a fighter by the sounds of their comms.
@@RoadhouseDeluxe Blackjack callsigns are Coast Guard helicopters.
God Damn Army.
"That is the Tappan Zee bridge." Best thing I've heard my entire lifetime. Cuomo bridge be damned.
Right on dude. I know how you feel. I fly in and out of Washington National Airport all the time. 😂
Probably a stupid question, but I was wondering if anybody could help out.... What do the military pilots mean when they say BRA? Or what is BRA?
Bearing, range, altitude. So the target might be bearing 140 degrees from the F-16, 7 miles, 1200 feet.
Nice to hear them say Tappan Zee Bridge. lol
Phraseology is very lacking in these restricted airspace intercepts, they need a mil fighter controller onsite in the centre walking the floor plugged in for vectoring the intercept. Civvy controllers also don't appreciate the closure rates of a fast intercept that could even end up going supersonic, complicated by the lower RCS of civil light aircraft expecially in lookdown clutter.
I have a bad feeling about this and sooner or later there could be a midair or worse.
3:12 Blackjack-1 stated he's on "active air defense", not active descent.
Cure worse than the disease. F-16 at 250-200 kts with a sky full of 100kt traffic (that he can not see) at low altitudes, what could go wrong. Just an uhhhh eats a mile. Air defense is not equipped for the white nationals that are supposedly THE existential threat? Very sad all around. Flying an instrument practice approach in ORD airspace on a VFR day is tough enough for me.
ATC has the ADS-B code, they know exactly who they are dealing with.
No Factor, no factor.
TFRs are so useless. It's just security theater. I've seen so many videos where if there was was an actual hostile aircraft, they could strike the target before interceptors arrived.
The TFR and ADIZ situation is out of control since 9/11. Absurdity for the convenience of security officials, with major interference for average pilots.
Well, a lot of the videos I've seen regard Cessnas which aren't very big or fast lol. Though you obviously could drop something out of it. But I would assume if something like an airliner violated a TFR we might see a much different story...
@@bigblue207 The other concern is "Threat Level". The US is not at war. There is no hourly threat that requires airborne fighter or AWACS for immediate response.
They're typically single engine, civilian aircraft not foreign fighters armed to the teeth with missiles. I'm sure heading and altitude play a major part in determining how quickly a target needs intercepted. It's pretty easy to differentiate between an aircraft accidently skirting across the edge of a TFR at a constant cruising altitude and one heading directly towards the center that's losing altitude.
“Noble 12, clear to fire at your discretion🤣”
@ 5:19 - Just wondering why does the video show a Beechcraft D18?
Here we go again