Ford Might Not Create Any New UAW Jobs; Stellantis Says EVs Already Profitable - Autoline Daily 3749
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- Autoline reports breaking global car news, with great insight and analysis. Also, top auto executive interviews. We cover electric vehicles (EV), autonomous vehicles (AV) and internal combustion engine technology (ICE), as well as car sales & financial earnings and new car reviews.
0:00 Ford Won’t Create Any New UAW Jobs
1:22 Barra Wishes Software Effort Started Earlier
2:11 Tavares Says Stella’s EVs Already Profitable
2:57 Stellantis To Cut Inventory & Incentives
3:40 Rivians Teases Peek-A-Boo Look at R2
4:40 Scout Motors Starts Building U.S. Assembly Plant
5:18 S. Korea EV Subsidies Help Hyundai, Hurt Tesla
6:13 EV Sales Shot Up 23% In December
7:13 Tesla Uses Battery Age for Range Estimates
8:00 What If We Don’t Need A Hydrogen Infrastructure?
Story Links:
- Ford Reconsiders Its Manufacturing Footprint: www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...
- Mary Barra Has EV & Software Regrets: www.freep.com/story/money/car...
- Stellantis Says Its EVs Are Already Profitable: www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/busine...
- Stellantis to Cuts U.S. Inventory & Incentives: www.wardsauto.com/dealers/ste...
- Rivian R2: rivian.com/r2
- Scout Motors Breaks Ground on U.S. Plant: www.scoutmotors.com/press/sco...
- South Korea Changes EV Incentive Policy: electrek.co/2024/02/15/koreas...
- U.S. EV Sales Shot Up in December: www.autonews.com/retail/us-ev...
- Tesla Updates Range Calculator: electrek.co/2024/02/15/tesla-...
- AAH with Larry Burns: www.autoline.tv/after-hours/a...
- To read the transcript for today's show click here: www.autoline.tv/daily/ad-3749...
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I don't think BYD and TESLA are worried about Hyundai EV pricing seeing as Hyundai's EV volume is nowhere near BYD's and Tesla's. Even at a multiple thousand dollar discount Hyundai has already stated that they will limit production of their EV's to retain resale value whereas BYD and Tesla are looking to bring down prices and increase volume production.
Instead of Amazon producing electricity at every fulfillment center, converting it to hydrogen, producing graphene lattice and imbibing with hydrogen, filling cartridges with over 700psi with this material, then delivering these highly-pressurized fuel containers to you so you can fill your car...
Imagine if you could just plug your car into the wall.
Yeah but you could take the containers with you on long trips instead of being a "sitting duck" at a charging station. wouldn't have to worry about going out of the way to find a charger, wouldn't worry if the charger was broken and wouldn't have to wait two hours to recharge during the holiday traffic rush.....
I know right? GENIUS! Steve Jobs level genius. And wait? Imagine if I told you with the right adapter you can magically just place your device over it and it will recharge itself? Abracadabra! My stars?! What a time to be alive!
Yea, imagine that! 😂 -- it's just amazing how many "experts" don't realize the car industry (and then trucking) will transition to EVs sooner than 95% of the population realizes.
Sadly, I don't think the, um, capital investment class, is gonna let this go.
There's too much money to be made by keeping a stranglehold on the energy.
From the point of view of the investment class, letting people power their cars on sunlight is giving up an enormous opportunity - not only for wealth but also influence and control. So, my suspicion, sadly, is that they're gonna keep hammering on BEVs until they just squash them out of existence, like they did with the EV1.
I think the rest of us are gonna have to put up a real fight if we hope to avoid that happening.
EVs may seem like a no brainer. But in some quarters they represent revolution. And that means war.
I don't mean to be alarmist or anything, this is just what it looks like to me, when I ask myself "why do they keep bringing this stuff that seems to make no sense?" It makes sense to someone.
What gives EVs a bad name are the owners who buy them without doing their homework and those going on trips without any planning ahead and getting into the issues you mention, people are hopeless. Governments
aren't any better, they mandate that there has to be EVs by a certain date but have they put in the infrastructure, are they ensuring the smooth transition to a new future? I have nothing against hydrogen but the thought of being able to charge my car at home is kind of nice. No-one solution fits all.@@davewhite113
They should have done more research before they went all in on electric.
How does Mary still have a job. Ridiculous
They need to dust off the Voltec system and start properly advertising it like they should have over a decade ago. Instead of taking a baby step like Toyota did they jumped in the BEV deep end and are slowly drowning.
GM was doing the right thing. Then California, Europe, China, and the US federal govt scared them into doing the wrong thing. Of course, GM never stopped working on gasoline trucks and SUVs. The CARB and CAFE credits for EVs were supposed to allow them to continue to build their profitable vehicles.
@@cccharlie1972Barra has already said their move to electric was substantially delayed by "internal discussion", i.e. internal foot dragging and disagreements.
It seems clear now that this impacted not only their time to market but also their ability to bring out fully and properly developed product.
Don’t worry Mary has the President in our pockets for her!!
No amount of research would help GM take on Tesla.
Tesla could build ICE more efficiently and undercut the current ICE industry too. Tesla picked EVs because it is better in every way. Not because they could not do ICE better.
GM can't EV but they're "leading the EV revolution" according to POTATUS.
As always, GM gets things right then cancels them. They had the Bolt sorted out and dropped it before they had a fully developed replacement for it. Ultium will eventually be great but by the time they get the software bugs worked out the damage to their reputation will already be done.
He knows even less about EVs than Mary does, but we should expect that. Not sure what GM's explanation is.
Rivian R2, when does the other half, the D2 happen?
You'll have to ask 3-CPO.
@8:38 Using *_electricity_* (holds up a wire, running from a solar farm) is _always_ going to be preferable to
using *_anything else_* (holds up a hose, running from a pump, in front of a fuel truck, on a dock where a tanker is docked with oil wells in the distance.)
In the long term, there are only two options:
1. 50% efficient (sulfur iodine process) nuclear hydrogen production X 60% efficient fuel cell at point of use = 30% overall efficiency.
2. 35% efficient nuke electricity plant. Nearly a wash. (differences in pipeline vs electricity distribution and compression vs charging efficiency are close to a wash as well)
Hydrogen's advantage is that the pipelines themselves store and release energy by varying pressure throughout the day. No need for grid scale batteries or peak plants. Currently, the US installed capacity, if run 24/7 would produce over 2.5 X total annual demand. So, we would need half as many plants if we ran hydrogen production 24/7 vs constantly turning on and off electricity production in a never ending struggle to match production to demand.
Plastic pipe is cheap and reliable - copper wires, transformers, and obscenely large battery installations are expensive junk.
Unfortunately, final demolition of our expensive, unreliable, complicated, and very ugly electrical grid is many decades away. But we will see this implemented successfully elsewhere first. And we will gradually watch our natural gas distribution pipelines get upgraded or replaced to handle hydrogen distribution.
You need to include the actual number of sales not just the % increase re Hyundai, BMW etc at 6:13. Those companies are coming from such a low base even a handful of additional sales looks like a bigger % increase. Lets see how they go year on year in future.
Yep. Tesla sold like 53k more cars and BMW sold 5k more cars. Numbers matter...
Oh... GM sold something like 17 less cars. :)
@@davidbeppler3032 Statistics are a way to tell the truth and lie at the same time.
@6:56 The problem with reporting percentages is that they hide the absolute numbers.
Guess what? It's the absolute numbers that matter.
I always keep my car battery set to %. I want to keep it above 20% state of charge at all times.
It really depends what you're tracking. Both are important.
Same thing I said! Tesla sold 53k more cars and BMW sold 5k more cars. Now how do those numbers look? lol
Sort of like the effectiveness of the jab.
The legacy bolts and screws manufacturers seem to be finding out what it takes to build a modern vehicle instead of farming every single thing out to supply chain partners. Should have started that 15 years ago.
Just this guys comment that delivering Hydrogen cartiges has not marginal cost "because Aamzon is already coming to your house" shows he has not even the MOST BASIC understanding of how businesses (Amazon and delivery) work. Furthermore, even if it is a breakthrough, Hydrogen is still SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive and because of PHYSICS will ALWAYS be more expensive than electricity - and pretty much ANY home in the US has electricity without the need of an Amazon truck 🤦♂
That guy from AAH has lots of great ideas... then hydrogen
In the long term, there are only two options:
1. 50% efficient (sulfur iodine process) nuclear hydrogen production X 60% efficient fuel cell at point of use = 30% overall efficiency.
2. 35% efficient nuke electricity plant. Nearly a wash. (differences in pipeline vs electricity distribution and compression vs charging efficiency are close to a wash as well)
Hydrogen's advantage is that the pipelines themselves store and release energy by varying pressure throughout the day. No need for grid scale batteries or peak plants. Currently, the US installed capacity, if run 24/7 would produce over 2.5 X total annual demand. So, we would need half as many plants if we ran hydrogen production 24/7 vs constantly turning on and off electricity production in a never ending struggle to match production to demand.
Plastic pipe is cheap and reliable - copper wires, transformers, and obscenely large battery installations are expensive junk.
Unfortunately, final demolition of our expensive, unreliable, complicated, and very ugly electrical grid is many decades away. But we will see this implemented successfully elsewhere first. And we will gradually watch our natural gas distribution pipelines get upgraded or replaced to handle hydrogen distribution.
@@cccharlie1972 The solution to our energy needs, which would be most efficient and lowest in capital is a distributed grid using solar and wind. Granted, there might be areas that it would prove more challenigng (eg, Alask in the winter) but it is feasible and has been modeled by multiple organizations. Furthermore, if solar/wind is overbuilt to support production in the winter, you get free energy in the summer for industried that can benefit from it (e.g., metal production, and maybe even hydrogen for niche applications like airplanes etc where power/weight ration might be challending for batteries).
@@ranig2848 Not once you realize that for every dollar you spend on solar panels, you need to spend ten dollars on batteries.
Absorb hydrogen into a metal matrix ? Are you a f***ing comedian ? You need 20 Kg (at least) of metal to absorb 1 Kg H2 - result ? A lot of useless weight - unless you want to transport drugs as well ? (Which would suit cokecharlie here...)
No matter how your get hydrogen, it is still way more expensive than electricity.
H2 is a pipe dream for a lot of things, but it is a good way to store seasonal excesses of electricity in a form that can be used for aircraft, heating in extreme latitudes, ocean transport and heavy industry. Also it would be a good source of energy for emergency peaker plant power generation, especially if they found a way to store it long term. Some turquoise H2 production methods actually produce an ultra pure carbon solid that is used by some to make graphene relatively cheaply for anodes in small batteries.
Build a new supply network while every building is wired. More plugs, less pushback.
@@anydaynow01 Hydrogen has a low energy density and the strong pressurized tanks cannot go into the wings. Hydrogen would use up all the cargo space making it a complete joke as an aviation fuel.
20 years ago the EV battery energy density we have today was a dream.
Companies are spending billions to find a cheaper way to get hydrogen.
Solar energy can create hydrogen cheaply for certain needs
@@_PatrickO Not with metallic hydrogen @ 577 gigapasal. Very cheap when you fetch it from Jupiter.
The Rivian R2 will SELL LIKE CRAZY in SoCal!!!!
Or here in Alberta at that price? REALLY well!
No doubt about it.
@@stickynorthhahahah keep dreaming
Bay area also.
How? Did Rivian get another factory? 10 new lines building vehicles? Free labor? What will make it so they can build more? Does Rivian get to charge $200k per R2? That would help them build like crazy.
At a place like gm it's always someone else's fault no one in upper management says well I'm in charge it's my mistake.
It must be hard to stay employed at gm.
I thought I read the head person at gm was putting time into working on a book (something about All In) about the EV transition and autonomous vehicles this was a few years back.
Old saying about counting chickens before they hatch.
Yeah, something about the 'numerical significance' before chicken hatchlings can leave the egg.
8:24 Soon as he said scientists.. translation, "it's not happening in your lifetime" lol
Graphene is a magical material. It's always 5 years away... 😁
Well affordable graphene in large quantities is at least.
Lower pressure in a tank means more storage volume is needed, I would think. That's generally how it works.
That's an amazing property.
Its made inside of fusion reactors, which will be started in 2029. Fer sure!
Thank you for a great show today and for the week. Have a safe weekend.
The R2 is already out , as I see a few in Fresno, California.
Those are prototypes, so technically the are NOT out.
@@mag28 Cool.
Kicking it at the Fasoon Fair ?
I want visuals, baby! This is the vehicle to make or break Rivian...
It's the only way for Ford to stay in business. You can't have 20% higher labor costs and be competitive.
Unless you can woo politicians to your side
False. Ford needs to vertically integrate their production. Tesla builds their cars in San Francisco and Austin, not exactly lowest cost of labor areas, and makes huge profits on their EVs. Ford builds the Mach-E in Mexico and loses tens of thousands of dollars on each one they ship.
@@DarkBrandon1 We've already seen this before. Look how "less than" Detroit cars were before labor was restructured in 2009. Lower quality, less features. You can't compete when you labor costs are far higher than the competition. We've seen this show before. Wait and watch Detroit regress to pre-2008 decline.
@@KTPurdy what you’re saying is false. All automotive labor cost follows UAW wages in the US.
@@DarkBrandon1 According to Gemini, UAW workers receive about 40% higher base wages, plus a far more comprehensive benefits package. Non-union workers make extra through profit sharing, which varies year to year.
Detroit has already priced themselves out the sedan market. Look for Detroit manufacturing to continue to shrink as they give more of the market away to imports.
I own four Detroit vehicles, but I'm done. I'm not going to overpay for less when they're better options on the market.
I read on a forum that there is a recent February 5, 2024 fix
Bulletin: 23-NA-227 Referencing PIE0775
Build: W27E-172.5.1-M169-SQBR4-126.1
That has apparently fixed the issues with the existing sold Blazers that have gotten the update. I guess GM is waiting for more "field testing" before lifting the stop-sale.
Wow, that's good news. Let's hope it pans out.
One of these days, GM is gonna have to start actually making AND selling EVs in high volume.
Great show.
The rivian R2 will come with a Dual 2 motor setup option known as the R2 D2
Too late, it's already a meme
How much does it cost to not just produce Hydrogen, but using graphine tech. That is way out there in cost and time. BEV is the current solution and maybe, I like the ability to fuel at home without going to a gas station or waiting for a cartridge from amazon. Also what is the recycling plan for those cartridges.
Hybrids are the current solution, they are the bridge to ICE powered hydrogen.
The cartridges would be refillable and recyclable.
The same argument is made of batteries which are also recyclable.
Cost and time are issues though.
The delivered cartridge idea is pointless.
They'll be delivered by converted milk trucks.
Ha Ha haaaaaa!
The hydrogen bit is hilarious, dreaming of tech breakthrough and applications that don't even exist!
Don't worry layoffs at UAW plants will occur
Both GM and Ford wished they could have spent more time in planning and risk assessment versus getting pushed into full throttle EV transition by WashDC
Ford and GM spent their energy trying put EVs down instead pursuing new tech. The EV1 was a car once.
Tesla sales up 11% is 53k more cars sold in America, BMW sales up 86% is 5k more cars sold in America. Numbers matter. You want real numbers, not percentages. Percentages sound nice but they lie to you.
the R2 will be interesting to see.
It will not be interesting to buy. As they will not produce very many. Why? Because they are small. They can't produce 5 million cars a year. Currently Rivian produces like 5 models in small numbers. They are almost a boutique of cars. You order it, they build it. They have several paints, styles, options. Rivian is trying to do too much to ever produce volume.
I think Korea is right for trying to give their homegrown brand an advantage.
Are you and your dad gonna join us? On Father's Day in Muskegon, Michigan? We'd love to have you need a place to stay. We're buying Amor air mattresses. The Highlander❤😊
Showing % increase in EV registrations is not a true representation when comparing growth between manufacturers.. IMO, actual production numbers is better.
Yes. But saying Tesla is only up 11% and BMW is up 86% makes BMW sound better. If he said Tesla is only up 53k in sales in America, but BMW is up a whopping 5k sales! Nobody would understand how close BMW is to taking over Tesla sales.
The Taycan is nice, but they are charging $200k for a $90k car just because they put a Porsche badge on it.
Relative vs actual. They tried that nonsense with the jab.
I hope my 2013 Tesla Model S keeps going it’s got 172,000 miles. How cool would it be in a couple years to take out the original battery and pop in a solid state that would give me triple the range
Then you'd be "home on the range."
Even the current battery in your car would give it 50% more range.
The Unskilled Auto Workers will regret that strike. Most won't see much of that pay increase.
GM needs to fire 🔥 Mary Barra!! I’ve lost faith in her after SO MANY lies!! Hire someone who knows what they are doing!!!
The UAW biting the hand that feeds, who could have guessed that would come back to bite them. 🤔
The UAW strikes coming back to hurt the Union was so obvious that Ray Charles could have seen it coming.
Why does no one talk about cents per mile regarding hydrogen vs gasoline vs home charging w/electricity ?
I mean the extent that H2 proponent would go to describe its "feasibility" while the existing solution EVs are doing it so easily...is becoming more and more ridiculous. To start with, The graphene tech itself is not matured yet after 3 decades...even if it does, it will cost you an arm and a leg. So fueling using graphene rods soaked with H2 is just fantasy.. At this point, this has become psychological dissociation. These people, who are so habituated to "refill" their vehicle, they just can't let it go.
Liquid hydrogen LH2 or sLH2 is a better option for trucking, airplanes or marine applications.
OK we’ve all known the scout brand has been dead for decades. In 1979 I was selling leftover scouts that were years old.. these new scouts are going to have nothing to do with the originals other than the name!
I just viewed my first Tesla commercial on RUclips (Demo drive) an actual commercial from Tesla for 40 seconds.
Along with price cuts, it appears they have started to advertise to get demand up.
Next year's Superbowl a Tesla commercial?
I hope not. Either spend a billion and own the super bowl or spend nothing. Go big or go home.
Doubtful
Rivians r2 looks similarly to jeeps avenger ev in europe. I have a feeling that jeep will release its compact ev suv to the US market once Rivian does.
It's way bigger than the Avenger
Not shocked that Ford would be talking like this after last contract dispute with the UAW.
Agree, but I still have NO problem with the UAW workers getting a better deal. For 2023 Ford reported a GAAP Revenue increase of 11.5% and net income and margins were both up and their guidance for 2024 is up. So, the subtle whining about labor costs (not including executive compensation) by talking about footprint ring hollow to my ears. The numbers indicate that Ford can make money fine. Obviously, if Chinese manufacturers start dumping low cost, highly subsidized cars on the US market, that will be an issue, but that becomes a regulatory tussle and I know that Ford and the Automobile Manufacturers Association can find some lobbyists.
It’s a BS talking point. As soon as the UAW contract was signed, all the non-union companies gave their own employees a huge pay raise to keep pace.
Amazing how many people believe everything they hear from CEOs.
The whole growth based on percentages is something you can essily make sound better than it is.
If company A sold 5 EVs last year and sold 20 EVs this year, they can report 300% growth. Meanwhile company B sold 200,000 units last year and sells 250,000 this year only has a 25% growth. I will take 50,000 units of growth over 15 any day.
They tried that nonsense with the jab
Many companies are laying off employees in order to meet shareholder expectations for returns/profitability, more layoffs are predicted for March 2024 (one source ruclips.net/video/ovXaIFPy-ks/видео.html but similar things covered in this weeks and recent The All-in Pod covering Silicon Valley companies and the PBD podcast). Looking at the recent UPS layoffs post the significant pay increases they got, it seems completely naive for UAW employees to not face the same in 2024, following the significant increases to wages and benefits from 2023 'negotiations'... Especially if Chinese auto manufacturers find a way into the US market in a way that avoids tariffs... And I'm not referring to EVs, which legacy auto has failed on to compete with Tesla who manufacture in NA and managed to sell profitably for years now. If the Chinese EVs also make it into NA without tariffs, legacy auto will face huge challenges.
Agree less investments in US because of Unions.
It appears Rivian is using LFP batteries the lower-cost vehicle R2 could be popular across the whole county including cold regions.
They have to be able to make a profit on it.
They are going to be customers for Rivian, Tesla, and all the others (Ford, gm all the Asian and European manufacturers) it is going to be extremely fragmented and competitive in the lower-cost EVs (non-luxury).
I need some software development.
Your interpretation of what the Ford CEO said takes a hell of a lot of liberties.
Doing what you say means Ford has to forego a lot of tax and federal subsidy benefits under the CHIPS act and other recent Federal budget laws.
You are now off my list of RUclips sources.
Management and unions will force all car and trucks overseas again
The big three in Detroit will be one big in Texas before the end of the decade.
Was Ford's 1.7 billion just a paper loss?
Or did they make a poor decision not to settle earlier?
GM had 10 billion in cash to burn on stock buy back after the strike.
Ford gave up on cars years ago..
A surprising new study shows that electric vehicles create double the pothole damage to roads and bridges compared to gas powered cars. Before you get upset one way or the other - let’s take a deeper look at this study and what it says.
Analysis by The Telegraph in Britain has found that the average electric car more than doubles the wear on road surfaces, which in turn could increase the number of potholes. The country is suffering from a pothole crisis, with half as many filled last year compared to a decade ago amid an estimated $12 billion price tag to fill them all.
The study shows that, on a global basis, electric vehicles put 2.24 times more stress on roads as gas vehicles, potentially worsening the pothole crisis on all roads. The impact is even bigger with larger EVs, which can leave to up to 2.32 times more damage to road infrastructure.
15 popular EVs were compared to their gas and diesel counterparts, revealing an average weight difference of 689 pounds. The increased weight of EVs can be primarily attributed to their heavy batteries, as electric vehicles weigh more than their gas counterparts.
Scientists note that this heightened stress on roads results in the increased movement of asphalt, leading to the formation of small cracks that can eventually develop into problematic potholes. A previous report by the Asphalt Industry Alliance estimated that this cost could mean that nearly $80,000 in additional costs needed to be spent for every mile of a local road, this will lead to increased taxes and fees to cover the costs.
With half as many potholes filled last year compared to a decade ago amid an estimated $15 million price tag to fill them all. That is the cost in the UK imagine how many more roads and highways the USA has and the repair costs.
Civil and environmental engineering professor Kevin Heaslip, director of the University of Tennessee’s Center for Transportation Research, said EVs often weigh 30% more than gas-powered vehicles. The main reason is the weight of their batteries, which can add hundreds of pounds or more.
Kelley Blue Book states a Ford F150, the gas truck weighs 4,060 pounds, while the electric truck weighs, 6,015 pounds. Hyundai their average gas-powered car is 2,899 pounds - electric 3,715 pounds and Volvo, their average gas-powered car is, 3,726 pounds - electric, 4,662 pounds
I still wonder why this guy at 0:26 installs a shotgun inside the car door?
I know I'm from Europe and not used with American traditions but shotguns can't be part of basic equipment on a car. Or can they...
😂
Hydrogen is a losing route to BEV.
Farley is something else, one strike in 40 years, that barely hit their bottom line, yet we're the problem... SMH
It's classic Ford to blame any issues on everyone but the management.
They need to check his math on the volume of a 50 bar hydrogen tank. You're looking at 1400 liters to store 5.6kg of hydrogen at 50 bar he's talking about it being a 1 liter bottle and storing the same amount as 700 bar tanks? That's going to require orders of magnitude more pressure. Maybe 50 KILOBAR would make sense
Mary Barra's excuse for not being prepared enough for EVs is a joke. They have real-world EV expertise going back to the Saturn EV-1, and R&D going back to the '60s with the electric Corvair.
No, EV manufacturers cant just flip flop between battery make up .
There are reasons why lfp batteries are ysed instead.
Price and availability
Thanks Daddy Sean
Rivian might just survive if they can make a more affordable product. People seem to like their Rivian products, but so far they have been super expensive.
That draws it more sales, much bigger vehicle sale numbers, but they will be burning through so much cash to bring it to market. Still losing something crazy like $30K per vehicle sold. This cannot be made up in volume, they have to be profitable and within 2 years.
R&D costs are often one time expenditures to make the software for some subsystem that can be shared across all vehicles. That is why volume is so important in manufacturing. If you spend $100 million making dashboard animations, and you only make 100- cars, you spent $1 million per car just on the software. Rivian needs much higher volume so that it can share the costs. When people say company XYZ is losing $20k/car they are not accurately relaying the physical parts cost per unit. that is almost alway profitable.@@whattheschmidt
Some random dude say nano particles of graphine can somehow store hydrogen at 50bar and that is that. Well the cost is goimg to be higher than electricity because you will need electricity to produce hydrogen and need the cost of transpo.
Ao the only markets that can support these higher than electriciity prices will be airlines and the military because batteries are not lite enough and do not have enough power and energy density. Not yet, and this is really the achiles heal of hydrogen, battery tech is still pushing the boundaries and getting better and cheaper and safer. Unless this stops hdrogen will need a breakthrough.
The hydrogen bs keeps getting more comical, and now Shell even announced that they're shutting down all their stations in California to boot, due to complexity of supporting it.
In the long term, there are only two options:
1. 50% efficient (sulfur iodine process) nuclear hydrogen production X 60% efficient fuel cell at point of use = 30% overall efficiency.
2. 35% efficient nuke electricity plant. Nearly a wash. (differences in pipeline vs electricity distribution and compression vs charging efficiency are close to a wash as well)
Hydrogen's advantage is that the pipelines themselves store and release energy by varying pressure throughout the day. No need for grid scale batteries or peak plants. Currently, the US installed capacity, if run 24/7 would produce over 2.5 X total annual demand. So, we would need half as many plants if we ran hydrogen production 24/7 vs constantly turning on and off electricity production in a never ending struggle to match production to demand.
Plastic pipe is cheap and reliable - copper wires, transformers, and obscenely large battery installations are expensive junk.
Unfortunately, final demolition of our expensive, unreliable, complicated, and very ugly electrical grid is many decades away. But we will see this implemented successfully elsewhere first. And we will gradually watch our natural gas distribution pipelines get upgraded or replaced to handle hydrogen distribution.
Shell continues to work on hydrogen. But the USA is only working on hydrogen 18 wheelers. Hydrogen is only economical when piped or made on site.
That will cost EV that Jim is talking about will probably never happen
So you're saying I might be able to buy a Ford in thefutere. As it is, NEVER will I buy a UAW product!!
Fain and the UAW won the battle, but will lose the war to the Detroit 2 and 1/2.
UAW must assist Mexican & Canadian Auto Unions and coordinate actions
Union played itself.
Mexico is going to the EV manufacturing hub for a while for many a reason including its ability to assemble cars at a price cheaper than China which is about $5.50 USD/hour especially when you've got BYD and Tesla opening Giga factories there design to mainline cheap EV's into the North American market... Union labor can't and shouldn't compete for that low-wage work... People can't even live on $15/USD per hour much less a third of that!
Expenses are less in Mexico. Ask Americans and Canadians who retire there!
Also allows BYD to avoid the tariff, assuming they use locally sourced parts.
@@darylfoster7944 sounds smart.
They want to punish unions, they hate paying good wages, if the CEO can't make it work, why do they get paid so much companies get so excited about cheap labor to their own detriment, I've seen tech support in India that does more harm than good, I've seen a smarter company move their tech support back to USA.
Heard of a CO that offered perks to keep out union, once they got voted out, all perks withdrawn.
Put a Volt propulsion system in an Equinox rwd vehicle and I'd buy it. Otherwise, I'm getting a diesel Tahoe for our trailer.
With a decent sized battery. 80km of EV range is all I need for > 95% of my driving. Until they can get a battery plant running they need to focus on a hybrid system like Voltec with a modern battery. The Volt battery and management was great and ahead of its time but there are cheaper and smaller solutions now. I would trade in my Gen 2 Volt for a Voltec Silverado work truck for towing, and had an 80 km EV range unladen for getting to work and around town. Maybe the new Ram Powercharger Rex will push them in that direction.
Hydrogen in Graphene😆 They can’t even make Graphene at scale yet.
To many hurdles for fool cells.
Solar cell up and plug in. BEV are not perfect but a lot easier than Hydrogen.
Bingo! Less is more and KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid... 110 and 220 outlets are standard in most homes... And you can easily install a 220 in most garages with no real hassles with the right electricians... After all this is what our stoves and dryers have used for decades... And L3's well? Leave that to the Road Trippers who need it...
@@stickynorth If you think the electric grid is simple, you are very very confused.
My family's easy to find. Just look for the clan tent in the bagpipes.
Hydrogen is nuts and more expensive than gas and way more expensive than electric
In the long term, there are only two options:
1. 50% efficient (sulfur iodine process) nuclear hydrogen production X 60% efficient fuel cell at point of use = 30% overall efficiency.
2. 35% efficient nuke electricity plant. Nearly a wash. (differences in pipeline vs electricity distribution and compression vs charging efficiency are close to a wash as well)
Hydrogen's advantage is that the pipelines themselves store and release energy by varying pressure throughout the day. No need for grid scale batteries or peak plants. Currently, the US installed capacity, if run 24/7 would produce over 2.5 X total annual demand. So, we would need half as many plants if we ran hydrogen production 24/7 vs constantly turning on and off electricity production in a never ending struggle to match production to demand.
Plastic pipe is cheap and reliable - copper wires, transformers, and obscenely large battery installations are expensive junk.
Unfortunately, final demolition of our expensive, unreliable, complicated, and very ugly electrical grid is many decades away. But we will see this implemented successfully elsewhere first. And we will gradually watch our natural gas distribution pipelines get upgraded or replaced to handle hydrogen distribution.
Hybrids baby...Hybrids.
So, basically, Mary admitted she has been incompetent.
EV manufacturers only need to stop lying about RANGE .... the hell with all of their sophisticated range estimation tools. 300 miles of range = @200. Period.
I'd like to know if those OEM who chose Hydrogen and FCV plan to provide Hydrogen infras,otherwise Hydrogen is dead as even Shell is has discontinued it's Hydrogen Filling stations for cars in California.Hydrogen is for fools, cost for that. " fuel"compared to Electricity is insane! .. Hydrogen will always be "The fuel of the future"!😂
Mary makes so much off of ice vehicles. She has no interest in making good quality EV’s
Bossman makes so much off of EV vehicles! He has no interest in making good quality EV’s! CybeRust! Wompy Wheels! No weep holes in Model X doors!
There's a significant regulatory penalty if they don't sell EVs. Mary said GM EVs would be profitable this year - I wouldn't bet on it.
If Ford is losing $30k per EV, I find it hard to believe that Stellantis is profitable making EVs.
You need to factor in volume since costs are amortized.
Stellantis can't move the Jeep EV's, and sales are down 34% over the past 5 years. I don't believe anything they say, they have proven to be tone deaf and clueless in the US.
NAFTA sounds just like "UAW jobs moving south of the Border!"
GM has built almost nothing but garbage since Mr Sloan departed. Today, socialised gm has already admitted they are a financial corporation; making cars is the side hustle.
Mark my words Legacy autos days are numbered...All bankrupt soon
Love the idea of not creating any UAW jobs, hoping that the Mob folds and goes away.
Great episode with more North American news. Nice to hear less coverage of all the new makes and models that come out of China. I really couldn't care less. It's like a broken record. Thanks :)
Shawn Fain is a pretty short-sighted and misguided guy. Criticizes Ford, that it should focus on American auto industry, yet that’s what Ford did with trucks and got bitten by Fain and crew for it.
Algoritmo... Fahrvergnügen...
That's smart of Stellantis being gung ho in EV's because they're ICE cars have always sucked big time, LOL!
If you close your eyes when autoline starts it sounds like the Beverley HillBillies is starting.
The UAW has just priced the American worker out of the market.
Lol Barra, the queen of chick think, is determined to run Government Motors into the ground again. Stay on that bandwagon, Mary!
So the UAW attacked automakers and the automakers now have to protect themselves by making sure they aren’t using UAW workers. Surprise surprise. Humans will never learn this simple lesson. Violence rarely gets you what you want in the long run.
This makes zero sense, collective bargaining has been effective throughout history. The only thing more effective is force or the threat of it.
As a long time Ford owner, he's going push me, and others like me, elsewhere.
GM sucks at software. No thanks. People want Google and Apple.
Storing hydrogen in tanks of hydride is NOT a new idea. Graphene may have important advantages for this, but it is NOT a "breakthrough." Enough already with the hype.
Please do not have hydrogen enthusiasts on an otherwise rational and informative show. To anyone with an ounce of a brain, who has done an ounce of research - hydrogen will always get promoted by the fossil fuel industry, and it's well paid lobbyists, but it makes zero sense for personal transport...reasons ? Expense, technical difficulty, danger, and did I mention it's expensive ?
In the long term, there are only two options:
1. 50% efficient (sulfur iodine process) nuclear hydrogen production X 60% efficient fuel cell at point of use = 30% overall efficiency.
2. 35% efficient nuke electricity plant. Nearly a wash. (differences in pipeline vs electricity distribution and compression vs charging efficiency are close to a wash as well)
Hydrogen's advantage is that the pipelines themselves store and release energy by varying pressure throughout the day. No need for grid scale batteries or peak plants. Currently, the US installed capacity, if run 24/7 would produce over 2.5 X total annual demand. So, we would need half as many plants if we ran hydrogen production 24/7 vs constantly turning on and off electricity production in a never ending struggle to match production to demand.
Plastic pipe is cheap and reliable - copper wires, transformers, and obscenely large battery installations are expensive junk.
Unfortunately, final demolition of our expensive, unreliable, complicated, and very ugly electrical grid is many decades away. But we will see this implemented successfully elsewhere first. And we will gradually watch our natural gas distribution pipelines get upgraded or replaced to handle hydrogen distribution.
This is a forty year long transition away from gasoline. Gonna be 20 years before they stop making gas cars and the last gasoline cars will be on the road 20 years beyond that.
300,000,000 cars X 12,000 miles per year / 25 mpg X $3 per gallon = $432 billion per year spent on gasoline.
That's $17 trillion dollars over the course of 40 years.
The goal is to instead spend that money or, hopefully, less on the infrastructure to produce and distribute reliable zero carbon energy.
150,000 hydrogen stations X $2,000,000 each = $300 billion - a drop in the bucket. (Note that no on site storage is required for a station tied into a pipeline)
Replacing all 150,000 miles of natural gas transmission piping with 36" hydrogen piping:
$230,000 X 36 X 150,000 miles = $1.3 trillion - "Industry group the Interstate Natural Gas Association of America last year estimated the average cost nationwide at $230,000 for each inch of pipeline diameter per mile, up by 46pc from the 2016 estimate." - argus media (This may be overkill but that much pipe at 500 psi stores enough hydrogen to run all 300,000,000 cars for 2 days)
Building 3 kw (thermal) of nuclear per car to produce (via steam electrolysis or sulfur iodine process) and compress 2/3 kg per car per day:
3 X $3,333 X 300,000,000 = $3 trillion
Total - $ 4.6 trillion.
That's $115 billon per year for 40 years.
That's $383 per car per year for 40 years.
Cheap as dirt.
@@cccharlie1972 cokecharlie - I want what your smokin' ! Reality altering mind f^^^ing drugs for sure...
TESLA RULES BUY ON THE DIP
Be afraid, be very afraid of BYD.
@@2cartalkers Be afraid of China - gradually they will push all imports and transplants out of the market.
Thumbs up! No CCP propaganda! Amen! 💉🇨🇳🩸💉🇨🇳🩸
Excuses, excuses. CEOs aren’t worth their paychecks. EVs are still the future.
Ayaya Autoshitt network Everybody knows that 10% increase of 1 000 000 cars sale is better than 52% of 40 000 cars sale Tesla always far away from the competition