Here's Why GAIA Is My Absolute Favourite Space Telescope
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- How exactly does Gaia operate? What should we expect from it in the near future? When and why will it come to an end? And what comes after Gaia? Finding out the answers with Dr Berry Holl.
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👉 Gaia Black Hole 3 discovery seminar at the Department of astronomy Geneva
mediaserver.unige.ch/play/218992
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00:00 Intro
02:48 Meet Dr Berry Holl
05:02 How Gaia works
12:56 Measuring the speed of stars
22:14 Limits of Gaia
32:10 Anomalies from Gaia
40:25 When will Gaia end
48:48 What comes next
01:01:33 Current obsessions
01:02:56 Final thoughts
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You are free to use my work for any purpose you like, just mention me as the source and link back to this video. 
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Gaia data works its way into so much science. It really has made a foundational contribution to astronomy.
Hear Here -- Preach on brother -- Thumbs' up
I use a free astronomy software called Cartes du Ciel. It uses no star catalogs other than GAIA DR3. I have nearly every star in the sky down to magnitude 21, with full astrometry on every star. Distance (parallax), spectral type, proper motion, radial velocity, and GAIA catalog number. No matter what telescope I use there's no star in my eyepiece that isn't in Cartes du Ciel with GAIA DR3. GAIA has constructed a 3D map of the Milky Way in motion to analyze star associations, origins and destinations.
GAIA discovered that several billion years ago, the Milky Way ate a smaller galaxy called Gaia Enceladus, whose stars are different than native Milky Way stars, both in motion and chemistry. By coincidence our solar neighborhood is particularly dense in nearby Gaia Enceladus stars. The sun, however, and our solar system are native Milky Way.
That is a fascinating piece of information. Are the Gaia Encelladus stars more or less metallic than the Milky Way stars. At an educated guess I would say less?
cool, then you should be able to tell us roughly how many yellow dwarf stars are within say 100 light years of us. We are told that red dwarfs are not likely to have habitable exoplanets due to flares, what I'd like to know is on the H.R. diagram of star types, what types are smaller than our sun but large enough to NOT be flare stars, that could host habitable exoplanets. To my way of thinking, these types are really the only targets we should be expending resources on, looking for life or capable of being inhabited in the future...
Do you happen to know something about the chemistry of the other stars?
@@ashleyobrien4937
Am with you there, but until we can learn to fold spacetime, speed of light travel for massive starships is a stumbling block. Detecting life is the more viable prospect.
Build the Milky Way Wall Damn immigrant stars taking our JUBS
Thanks for this amazing interview!
And greetings from the ESA Control Center in Darmstadt, Germany!
I actually started watching the video from the room where Gaia is operated. A colleague just send me this video in the moment I was investing an issue with the Mission Control System…
Anyways, in case you can’t get enough of Gaia - there is also a lot of interesting facts about operations of Gaia.
Just two examples:
To make a super-precise observation, you not only require crazy accuracy in both orbit and attitude - you also need perfect time stamping of your observations! Therefore Gaia even has an atomic clock onboard!
Also, there is periods of time during which the Galactic Plane enters Gaia’s field of view. As Gaia is tracking every single bright object, it generates much more data than usual which can be more than 60gb per day! To downlink all this data we require 24/7 groundstation coverage to somehow get all data downlinked to Earth.
I'm not sure if Gia would be able to see " I'm guessing " such a dim object. Mr. Holl said Gia can see magnitude 21 brightness and above. Again guessing - The objects in our solar system aren't bright enough to work out any outside gravitational forces acting on us. Do you member Mr. Holl talking aboot the Afro-Universe hole was discovered because the orbiting star was doing some break dancing orbits around it ? lol
Amazing! The more technical Dr Holl gets, the more amazing the engineering is revealed to be.
Fraser was soaking up his information instead of talking.
Fraser only got 2 -- Thats an interesting question -- out of him
@@RectalRooter and @richardmarkham8369 Hi yes, even though I really enjoy talking about all the details I was initially trying to avoid too much of it (not to get too technical), but indeed Fraser kept asking about more details, which was really fun to talk about! Great to hear you enjoyed that too. I really believe Gaia is a technical wonder so I am happy I got that across in this interview.
@@BerryHoll You did a good job by being able to explain how and why the telescope works. Keep up the good job and thank you for teaching us something new.
The animation of how the CCD collector works, showing how the precise rotation rate allows for the operation of the telescope, and why it can’t continue science operations without refueling was a particularly interesting part of the conversation.
Indeed!
At the same time, sad. My simple, untrained mind was screaming "send it some fuel"!!
One of the best episodes. It's obvious your interest in the topic. What made this episode is you let him talk and discuss. Very well done Fraser. This was, in my opinion opinion, your best interview.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I really appreciate that Dr. Berry Holl, got super technical. I wish he would have kept talking. I'm not an expert in this area, but it's super interesting to me.
Berry was very informative! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Hey Berry, great talk. I enjoyed it 😁
Hi Kris! Thanks, it was a pleasure and honour to be interviewed by Fraser, I am happy you liked it.
Haven't seen you in awhile 😞 great to see Gaia mission flourishing and broadening it's potential
He looks like the mystery character in an old Superman movie, who you think is going to be a villain, but then in Act III he saves the day
hahaha Now that you mention it --- Totally right lol
McGruber!!1
He looks like the "most-European" European man ever.
Thank you so much for this beautiful interview, it is so nice to hear two persons speak with so much passion about what they love. Dankjewel Dr. Berry Holl
Aloha. Yep. GAIA rules. It helps so many astronomers from all corners of their subject.
Dr holl is so interesting i hope that he will comeback for another itw soon
Your interviews are great, Fraser and team. Thank you for your hard work.
I love GAIA too.
It's Gaia not GAIA :-)
That was great to also hear all these technical details, shows how much work goes into these missions to get out the best quality results. Just amazing
Yeah. He brings to life how streamlined Gia was able to be designed too and the build quality ended up helping extending it's working life
Summary:
Mission Overview:
- (0:00) Gaia is a space telescope mapping the Milky Way by observing the positions, motions, and properties of billions of stars.
- (0:18) It provides a comprehensive 3D map used for diverse astronomical discoveries.
How Gaia Works:
- (6:49) Located at the L2 Lagrange point, Gaia orbits the Sun alongside Earth, avoiding obstruction by the Earth and Moon.
- (7:07) It spins every six hours and uses two telescopes with a wide field of view, observing every part of the sky multiple times over its mission.
- (7:53) The resulting data is sparsely sampled, creating challenges for analysis but providing rich information.
Gaia's Capabilities:
- (11:28) Astrometry: Gaia precisely measures star positions and distances using parallax, achieving unprecedented accuracy.
- (13:00) Proper Motion: By observing stars over time, Gaia detects their movement across the sky.
- (16:42) Radial Velocity: A spectrometer measures the stars' motion towards or away from us (redshift).
- (18:49) Photometry and Spectroscopy: Two photometers provide data on star brightness and color, aiding in classification and rough chemical composition analysis.
Limits of Gaia:
- (22:28) Limited by its sensitivity, Gaia can only observe about 2 billion stars, representing 1% of the Milky Way.
- (23:48) Although capable of detecting exoplanets, its sensitivity limits discovery to larger planets like Jupiter and above.
- (40:41) Gaia's mission will end soon due to depleting thruster gas, expected in early 2024.
What Comes Next:
- (49:13) Gaia NIR: A proposed successor mission aims to perform similar observations in near-infrared wavelengths, enabling observations of stars hidden by dust and expanding the survey's reach.
- (55:09) Other Potential Missions: Future possibilities include even more sensitive astrometry missions and space-based interferometry to directly image exoplanets.
Surprising Discoveries:
- (33:02) Gaia has enabled the measurement of the Solar System's acceleration around the galactic center.
- (35:37) It has revealed stellar streams and groups, providing evidence of past mergers with the Milky Way.
- (34:24) Gaia data contributed to mass estimates of the Milky Way based on the velocity of stars on escape trajectories.
- (30:18) An unexpected discovery was the classification of many galaxies based on their variability as a function of Gaia's scanning angle.
Overall Impact:
- (38:25) Gaia has provided a wealth of data, democratizing astronomy by making it accessible to a wider range of researchers.
- (37:52) It has led to a deeper understanding of the Milky Way's structure, evolution, and stellar populations.
- (41:51) Gaia's legacy will continue to fuel astronomical discoveries for years to come.
i used gemini 1.5 pro
40:41 I think "beginning of next year" means early 2025, not 2024
Your interviews and content overwhelm me with joy.
LOVE GAIA, Loved this interview! Thanks guys!
Super interesting, especially the technical details.
Great episode, many thx
His hair is magnificent
This upload gets a big WOW! Good job Mr. Cain.
My favourite too.
GAIA, parallax is beyond imagination.
YESSS, Gaia is the absolute best!!!!
Gaia for president!
A president spinning around in circles yelling Yee yee Is that not trump ?
Thanks Berry. Thanks Fraser.
Very interesting, thank you !
Would be great to do a technical deep dive into the engineering (HW, SW & Mech) used to build and run GAIA. Just a few tantalising hints in this video!
Wow... the best interview ever. 👍
*SPACE EXPLORATION LEADERBOARD*
The telescope laypeople know about: Hubble, and now JWST
The telescope that gets mentioned in basically every astrophysics topic: GAIA
The telescope which is the most under-rated: Chandra XRO
The telescope which is the most hyped: JWST, and now Vera Rubin
The telescope which has surpassed its original mission objective by the largest margin: Voyager 1, Hubble, or Opportunity depending how you measure it
The shortest-lived telescope to collect groundbreaking data: Venera 7, Galileo Entry Probe, or Huygens
_I realize that I'm really stretching the definition of telescope at this point._
GAIA makes a beautiful spirograph
this interview was by a lot my favorite. from interesting and exotic findings to complex engineering and programming, Dr Holl explains it all
Eventually it was put in words. About 40% of all future papers will be written based on Gaia. There was the project leader in house of astronmy in Heidelberg some years ago ... somply great!
My ideal next generation GAIA has a reasonable cost by using starship and economy of scale. As you described, a wider parallax baseline (past Saturn orbit) using multiple Gaia telescopes and simultaneous measurements from 2 GAIAs. Larger mirrors to improve sensitivity by several magnitudes, infrared to look through dust. And make each GAIA a dual mirror interferometer telescope to greatly increase angular resolution of the telescope in the baseline direction.
High resolution spectrums could be done with a different telescope optimized for this purpose (I.e. larger mirror for more light to shorten shutter exposure times, wider range of wavelengths, precision spectrum sensors that process multiple stars simultaneously, L2 location).
Starship could launch these space telescopes at a low cost. Cost per telescope is greatly reduced by producing 6 of them instead of just one. Operating cost per telescope is the greatly reduced because one team is managing all 6 of them instead of just 1)
The benefits to Astronomy include understanding our galaxy, understanding stars, understanding dust. M6 favorite benefit is obtaining data that quantifies discrepancies in Newton’s law of gravity, thereby allowing correcting gravitational theory plus proving the corrected law of gravity.
Once again, great interview 👍. They are my favourite rock band 😬
Fraser only got 1 Thats a great question out of him lol
Shows how Fraser was soaking up the information instead of talking
What comes next? I like Dr. Holl's hope for an instrument that can get angles 100 times more precise than Gaia. If we can solve the highspeed data problem over distance, it might be good to have three or more identical probes at the Sun-Saturn L3, L4, and L5 points. This would let us get accurate parallax well beyond the distance of the Small Magellanic Cloud, and very accurate distances to stars on our side of the galaxy. We could probably get that together by 2060, with results around 2070. Longer term, if we could get similar instruments around Proxima Centauri, Barnard's Star, and Wolf 359, we'd be able to get accurate parallaxes to the nearer quasars and be able to highly refine our cosmological models.
he's fascinating. more !
When both share the screen at same time is better in my opinion.
Oh oh sounds like an internet stalker wanting to see more Fraser hahaha
Once it runs out of thruster fuel, can the optics be used in a lesser capacity until the craft stops functioning?
Hi Fraser
Classic legrange question here. Could we not divide the time taken for a future Tess-like survey by three if we stationed identical satellites at legrange points 3,4, and 5? For a mars size orbit it would be 229 days per survey, for Jupiter it would be 4 years.
What is more important with these kinds of mission? The extra parallax distance or the frequency of datapoints?
I was thinking two in Neptune's orbit. If you try for three, then if one doesn't make it, you still get something usable.
One of your best interviews, sointeresting. I too think Gaia is the grestest!
What an amazing machine that telescope is.
Would it make sense to send up a Gaia satellite (or two) to Lagrange point(s) in Neptune's orbit to get a much wider arc to determine the position of stars?
Great video again Fraser...I had you wrong... I thought you were obsessed with DUST!!
Fraser is.. Maybe because he is at the age of starting to fart DUST
Dust is the enemy
We need 4x GAIAs put in solar orbit around Jupiter or Saturn distance for greater parallax. Or Pluto for multi generational studies. And I say 4x because we need to look perpendicular to the ecliptic as well.
Question: Hypothetically speaking, what's the best resolution image we could make of a terrestrial exoplanet, given all the photons from it that arrive at Earth over an entire year?
I like this Spaniard. He is humble and wants to give more info but knows he will suffer.
He will probably be running the Spanish Space Admin in the next 20 years.
He's Dutch
Hey, long time lurker.
Recently learned that the moon had an albedo like asphalt. What if it was as reflective as snow? How bright would the night get?
About 10 times brighter!
I know Gaia doesn't operate in the ideal frequencies, but were any observations of Oumuamua made by Gaia? Would a longer wavelength IR version of Gaia (GaiaIR+) be good for cataloging near Earth asteroids?
I'm guessing - No - Mr. Holl said magnitude 21 brightness and up. I think Obamamuamua would be too dim
re - 26:00
More time = better results.
I would have liked to have known if the improvement in results over time is a linear progression or an algebraic progression.
(removing question, it was answered late in the interview. Whoop! So here's a new one...)
To what extent have we run into the theoretical resolution limit (1/2 wavelength) for visible-spectrum light? With 2 meter telescopes (i.e. Hubble) at 500nm, that's the 60 milliarc-seconds mentioned.
ease - weight - money - time - unknowns. I agree aboot waiting for another L2
Wow, the deviation of the solar system from its obit is cool. But does it mean that it deviates 100 km per year in the direction AWAY from the center of our MW? And how come, is there a lot of mass there that tugs on the sun? Or is it because we are less bound to other stars because we are a little bit above the arm and therefore are a little less following the stream of motion of the stars in the arm? Or are we accelerating because we are on our way of diving into the arm?
❗️ @1:00:00 EXACTLY what I’ve been asking: constellation of satellites at L2, L4, L5 of BOTH Jupiter and Mars - that also have laser distance relay among themselves for precision, accuracy, AND as a super LIGO. Better parallax, better detail as a super constellation of cross-coordinated satellites, and as a virtual super large telescope resolution.
ALSO, launch TWO PAIRS (4 total) Gaia-class missions into a polar-Z directions BOTH ABOVE AND BELOW from the solar system plane (in 20 years, the parallax will be insanely detailed). Perhaps launch them in a train as a relay network. And laser based data transfers.
I CAN IMAGINE using several Space-X Starship as the central communications hub that each of these constellations use as the primary data relay to Earth.
I keep hearing about primordial black holes that are the size of atoms. If I got that right how does something that small have enough mass that light can’t escape? What happens if it runs into say a large iron asteroid does it swallow up the asteroid, or does the mass of the asteroid overwhelm the black hole and cause it to evaporate?
I understand what you mean. I member all the blackhole trendy titles aboot CERN. If others can chime in - if I'm wrong in my attempt of an explanation.
I personally doubt tiny Afro-Universe holes are a real thing. Have you seen shows that talk aboot what would happen if they are real and 1 entered a star or Earth ? I think the conscious is, we wouldn't know aboot it. Member Atoms are relatively full of empty space and Afro-Universe holes can only eat so fast and spit out jets of leftover matter shooting out from it's poles.
Didn't he say Gia has a brightness detection of 21 and higher ?
I wonder if seeing dimmer stars fill in the empty space more than near IR.
North Star or Pole Star. With an apparent magnitude that fluctuates around 1.98 Maybe those are different ways of measuring
@frasercain Just as the earth has periodic meteor showers due to its path around the sun, can the Gaia data tell us when in the solar system's galactic travel it might have experienced or will experience greater meteor collisions? The path around the black hole that is depicted and the discussion of the cluster passing through the milky way is suggestive that there may be points in our galactic orbit that may be more dangerous than others.
I have a question:
I know that in order to determine the shape or the universe there are two ways; either draw a *giant* triangle and measure the sum of its angles or see if two parallel lines stay parallel. How on earth (pun intended) did we do that??
Surely I'm missing something. Can you please explain?
Has the universe's shape been figured out ? From what I member, there a many possibilities but nothing proven "" If it ever can be "".
I volunteer you to be shot out of the universe and tell us what you see lol
@@RectalRooter it's flat with 0,2% margin of accuracy
@@sadderwhiskeymann hahaha 👍
Given the extended mission length will the motion of the solar system within the Milky Way galaxy give a longer baseline than the 2 AU baseline formed by rotation about the sun?
Can you reword ? I'm not following
@@RectalRooter The sun is moving around the galaxy's core and over the length of Gaia's mission will the spacecraft have moved further away from its starting point than the 2 AUs that it moves when considering only its orbital movement about the sun.
@@chrisclark6154 Ok Ok.. Got it. It's a length vs width thing. We might be able to do the math from what is said in the video. The guy mentioned how fast our solar system is moving - So that times the 10 years in service and then subtract what 2 AU's are.. Right ?
Very nice guest. Good job Fraser!
Great, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I love telescopes. Wish we spent more on them.
I'm collecting funds for the Fraser Space Telescope. How much money can you send me ? lol
Please get Technical! :D
I was not sure if this is the right place to ask to get my question picked up but,
I just watched the Anton petrov video on glueon balls, could they account for part of dark matter?
So Gaia discovered a Black Hole with a star orbiting around it. Then the illustration shows the Black Hole orbiting around a "center of mass". Wouldn't the Black Hole itself, be the center of mass????
Where is this week's question show?
I'm traveling. I'll be doing a new show on Monday
GAIA is great and all… but so much better is possible.
GAIA is limited in that the parallax measurements take six months between shots. It’s like any of us closing one eye, memorizing the scene in front of us, then switching eyes. That humming bird that just flew by will seem gigantic and far away or teeny tiny and very close depending whether it’s flying left-to-right or right-to-left.
In the same vein that we use both eyes at the same time next-GAIA should have more than one eye open all the time. We need GAIA cameras at all the compass points around the solar system and off the solar system’s north & south poles. And it could get better all the time by having each travelling at escape velocity outward so the parallax baseline keeps getting longer. Multiple cameras measuring parallax continuously means catching short-lived wobbles in real-time.
What is the Gaia estimate of the mass of the Milky Way?
Love GAIA! There's an animation of the stars moving around near our solar system, made using the GAIA data - nearly gave me an anxiety attack.
I remember that animation. I like the idea that it will get better and more precise with every data set
With such a finely-detailed, wide angle general survey; is anyone looking out for "Planet X", or other solar-system objects? Surely their images must be captured too.
I have no understanding of how 3d cameras work. But it makes me think, is a 3d telescope possible?
Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to send refueling missions to rendezvous with our multi-billion dollar spacecraft (presuming we would design them to accommodate such missions), doubling or tripling their effective mission lives?
📍 Astrometrics lab (like Seven of Nine or Data’s labs in Star Trek) will be great. Overlay of all types of data from the glass plate photos, Hubble, etc. for query and hypotheses. Even raw data and alternate noise reduction models from Gaia. Artificial Intelligence , etc.
❓ I’m curious how various standard candles are used to maintain calibration. If distant galaxies are stable in color and position, then correlate the data capture on Gaia’s angle of data collection…
If a singularity is an infinitesimal point, why doesn’t it have infinite spin after a star collapses to form it? You know, with the conservation of angular momentum and all… ?
Gaia rotates 60 arc seconds per second, so I guess that the stellar images on the detector are not points but lines, right?
The star images are moved across the CCD at the same rate that the spacecraft rotates - so they stay as points :)
I think we should make another guy to send out because it is an awesome satellite observer
Your favorite until Vera Rubin comes on line next year. No disrespect to Gaia it’s amazing too.
It blows my mind how much data Gaia has collected over the time of it's mission. I can't help but imagine AI programmes finding new discoveries where humans wouldn't have the time to process all the data.
is this a record time for someone to mention A.I in the comments hahaha Couldn't help myself
Russell's Tea Cup?
We really should put telescopes to L4 & L5 of Jupiter for a good parallax
The parking fee's are too expensive - making the mission uneconomical
How was your trip to Japan?
I heard he's turning Japanese lol
Still on it. Fly home tonight
@@frasercain Nice
Sooooo, james Web can't be refueled?
Nope
@@frasercain seems like a design flaw.
Add some quick discounts and hope for a future mission. . . Meh
@@pilotnamealreadytaken6035Remember when James Webb’s design was finalized there was no realistic way to reach it with a crewed spacecraft and robotic spacecraft that could repair or refuel it don’t even exist now. And before anyone mentions Starship, which still isn’t operational yet, this was before SpaceX had been founded.
In addition, I don’t have to remind anyone how the costs for JWST ballooned. Adding repairing and refueling capability would have further added to the costs and the time needed to complete it. The Hubble Space Telescope is the exception not the rule because it’s in an orbit that could be reached by the shuttle, unlike JWST. So, they made the right decision at that time and it wasn’t a design flaw.
It does still have the docking ring that it has as attached to the upper stage. So in theory, a spacecraft could fly out, dock with it and provide thrust
@frasercain oh That is a fantastic idea... bring it back in for MX and refurb. 🔥🔥🤜🤛 2045ish.
GAIA
Your right Fraser i think Gaia is incredible. Do you ever watch The Sky At Night the BBC astronomy show they did great episodes 1 before Gaias launch and another in 2018.
Thumbs up The Sky ate Night is still enjoyable to watch for the 60 some years it has been going
I've been watch old episodes on the RUclips channel of Martin Mobberley who has uploaded every episode from 1980 until Patrick Moores last episode.
If we were going to plan to populate the galaxy, where should we head with our von Neumann probes after the nearest stars? Inwards along the galactic arm or hop over towards the next arm?
Doesn't Area 51 still have the Interstellar Roswell drive ?
Gaia is such a success we should create a better version.
Stereotypical 90s action movie German bad guy.
Do black holes eat dark matter (seems like they should since gravity is a dark matter clue) and if so why can't we learn more about it by studying this?
Simple short answer -- Maybe ? ... I don't think we have enough information to come close in answering that question. It's still called dark Matter / Energy because we don't really know anything aboot it. We still have so few ways of being able to observe any of it's interactions with what we can see.
Hell .. We don't even know if Dark Energy / Matter is a real thing or just observations we are not understanding
Where are the 30k exoplanets that were promised to us?
He admitted the Gia team withholds information.
I'm starting a rumor that the Gia team is withholding the discovery of a Cryogenic Rouge Planet is heading to an Earth Collison
Paralex of 2 AU, not 1
lol I didn't notice that until you said it. Everything is so easy when somebody else does the work hahaha
If it were left up to me, I would already be setting up a telescope the size of mars to the earth so it's Fraser Cain doable.
Smiles Thats a big asperation - Some people are glad your not the Earth Emperor - Forcing a 3rd of the earth to live in 24 - 7 darkness lol
Does your fiancé watch your video? When you say I can afford to lose it, she is help with that comment.
Noticed things are moving back up in you office. 😀
Does the phrase "black hole" inspire the same kind of jokes in Russia that the name of the planet Uranus does in the English-speaking world?
Black hole is not PC acceptable anymore. They want to be called Afro-Universe holes -Grinning -
It's designed to attempt to find the gender pay gap.
Sorry. Hubble is undisputed to me.
Not everything is a competition, Hubble opened our eyes to the true scope of the universe a true marvel and undisputed yes! Gaia is opening our eyes to what is immediately around us focusing on our Galaxy the Milky Way... we are still taking baby steps but in the RIGHT DIECTION! Gaia is a revolutionary in its own right! To the exploration and the understanding of our home within the Milky Way - both are incredible marvels opening our eyes to different things... don't be so small minded as to say which is better, BOTH are key to understanding our place within the universe!
I gotta say the conspiracy theory aboot the Soviet mission that accidently ended up flinging cosmonauts into outer space is the undisputed best mission. I think there was a radio transmission intercepted by armature radio people
HST B OG.
@@bertpasquale5616 Technically -- The OG space telescope is the
American Orbiting Astronomical Observatory (OAO-2)
Everyone stand for the American national Anthem
@@RectalRooterThat was debunked decades ago. There are a lot of sources online where you can get more information.