Proper way to Install backer board in Tub area
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- Опубликовано: 30 авг 2019
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Proper way to Install a cement backer board in Tub area, is not sit on top of the tub flange. When the bathtub is installed measure should be taken to insure that the backer board for the tile can be installed correctly to be in front of the tub flange and go down to the tub deck. Refer to these TCNA methods B412 specifically for cement board, and 3:53 B411, B440, B419, B425, B430, for other backing types. Before the cement board, or Hardie Backer board, or whatever tile backer you decide to use, if needed the studs should be shimmed or furred out so that the tile backer can be positioned to be placed on the tub deck so that the flange does not "Kick" out the bottom of the tile backer and can remain in a flat plane. A small gap should be left where the backer board meets the tub and it should be sealed with silicone or the appropriate sealer for the tile backer board that you are installing. Waterproofing, or vapor barriers or other systems to manage water is another aspect of the installation of the tile assembly in a wet area, I am only referring to the proper placement of the board in relation to the tub in this video.
All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
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Love the fact you showed the TCNA manual. Saying this isn't an opinion! Makes me feel much better after doing this for 20 years I always did it right.
I would go by experienced installers over any manual.
Was just having this discussion with a guy who owns a professional tile installation business. He said to rest the durock, kerdi, etc on top of the flange. I thought to myself, that doesn't sound right, let me see what Sal says. Yup, I'll be doing it the right way. Thank you for this video.
Your approach makes total sense to me and is worth the extra time. Out of the dozen videos I watched you and one other were the only ones to install the wall board this way. Thank you for stressing this point as it's the only way to insure a proper install.
Awesome, thank you!
Ive Watched fifty videos and they all say on top of the lip. I agree with you guys all the way to the tub
😊👍
Thank you! I have seen so many videos showing different techniques and as a home owner doing it the first time, this is a huge help!
Glad it was helpful!
Sal’s one of the best in the north east!
Wonderful information, thank you so much! Great videos!!
Thank you Sal. I plan on replacing my tub. Now I know how to set the board. 1/4" gap make total sense.
As always very useful .thank you
Thank you Sal, I've seen this done incorrectly in other RUclips videos. And it was done incorrectly on my shower that failed 6 months after it was put in. There was no vapor barrier or water proofing, just calk in the corners and between the cement board and the shower pan. I demolished the bottom 4 feet of my shower and had to replace most of the cement board. I used Mapei AquaDefense on the whole area and combined it with Nova-Fiber to cover the corners and the gap where the Hardy backer board doesn't fit inside the lip of the shower pan. I finished up the grouting yesterday, putting the doors back on today. Thank you very much for your videos and sharing your many years of experience. -Cheers!
Your shower fell apart because of no membrane. Vapour barrier is very important it creates moisture behind the wall loosens the tile in the grouts and the cement. This is an incorrect video
@@anthonywillems8449 My shower never "fell apart" it was just leaking water like a sieve. Tile was still firmly affixed, had to bust every one out. The problem was no waterproofing, you can't expect to just rely on grout to stop all that water so you need waterproofing behind the tile.
I'll
Sal, thanks for exactly answering my question. I'm sure I'll see you again between now and the end of the project.
If you put it directly on the tub the only thing keeping water from getting to the backerboard is the caulking around the tile and if that fails water will go under the tile and the backerboard will wick up the water. The gap eliminates the chance of the backerboard wicking up water incase water does gets passed the caulking
Finaly someone with brain
True bro. Caulking will
Never stop water getting to that board so low. So many misleads here so many tubs to rot in couple of years
This guy is a hack and doesn’t know what he’s talking about. You are 100 percent right
Hardie board is the only thing that you can't set directly on the tub. Durock, other pure cement boards, and foam boards don't wick up water.
@@Mike-yc7jcthey most definitely do, basic Google search reveals cement board wicks and needs to be waterproofed
Very informative thank you
Another question! If I decide to cut approximately 3/4” to 1” strip off the bottom of cement board that’s already installed around tub shower what would be the best way to cut this strip off? This would be to get rid of the overlapped hardibacker over the tub lip, so it will
relax cement board in several important areas in spite of shimming to get rid of the bow over the lip? Thank you for your assistance!
I put it on top. Because, when moisture gets in, the hardibacker doesn't allow moisture by capillary effect to travel into wall.
Someone with a brain
THat's what I have been reading. Most are saying if you put it in the lip, the water will wick up what ever backer you are using and ruin the wall. They are mostly saying 1/8" is proper. With the tape connecting the backer board to the tub. I am planing on putting a caulk filler between the tub and the board to fill that 1/8" gap. Would that be ok?
Some tub manufacturers recommended sitting the backer board on top of the flange.
It need to be sitting on top of it.
Who else could know better than manufacturer?
But I would put backing between the studs along the perimeter and just above the tub. Out of the same 2x4. To support the edge of the board from flexing.
Sal does not know what he is talking about
@@kennethconnors4325 He is a good tiler but believes he is an engineer.
Thank you. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Ive done a lot of tubs and showers and have never heard of setting it over over the lip. Even with concrete board water can wick right up the board.
Just because you have never heard of it, does not mean it is not a thing. Just look up the TCNA methods listed in both the video and description. Besides, have you ever cared to find out what the proper methods are, or do you rely on what others have told you that have also never cared to find out what the truth of the matter is.
I've done millions and millions over the years and have never seen durock or water gypsum board over the lip. I have seen curved walls after paint where people have rocked over the lip.
my house is old , they installed cement board over the lip(even though there really is no lip), its pretty much flat, cant change too late, my question is what should I use to seal it? caulking? also when Im taping my joints do I just leave that part open?
thanks for info. total novice here. what do I use to seal green board to tub? Whats the preferable product and method to use? ty!
Goes on top....according to Dreamline shower instructions.
Sal KUDOS to your knowledge...Its few and far between, that you find a person who cares about his work.You have so much pride in your jobs.
This video couldn't have come out at a better time for me. I just poured the self leveler for my basement bathroom and am about to get the fiberglass shower pan to start the shower walls. I haven't seen a video that describes the correct placement and the use of furring strips to kick the wall out when the pan sits directly on the studs (which my pan will). I was always confused by the durock or kerdi coming over the lip of the pan because of the "angle" that would create because the pan lip has a thickness.
I can't thank you enough Sal.
Getting informed before starting is always the best thing to do, however always check manufacturer recommendations, there can be some variations on what is allowed by specific manufacturers. In the specific case of Kerdi board, they do have a method for installing the "Wrong" way if it is not possible to fur studs.
Sal DiBlasi thank you very much sir !
Thank you!!!! Real s answers for real situation
Your method makes more sence I like to stay off lip 1/8 and 1/4 off deck then seal with corresponding chaulk
LOL keep up the good work I will be fixing your jobs for the rest of my life you got to love job security
Ha, check my channel, then sat that again.
What do you do with the gap between the tub and bottom of the cement board? Silicone it? Thin set and tape it?
Schluter recommends it sitting on top of the lip, then use 5" Kerdi band over the seam. Thinset on the board and Kerdi fix on the lip to bed the band in. I usually agree with you, but this time I don't. Besides furring out the studs creates its own issues.
I conclude with you
If you sit it on top then you have a ugly gap there where it sticks out 1/8-1/4 in some spots? Specially in my situation where I’m leaving the plastic shower pan itself but it had a surround on it with liquid nail and now that shiny white surface is ugly and horribly discolored so now I have to cover it up
@@JustinMentionedIt My comment was for the Kerdi board to sit on top the tub lip with the Kerdi band overlapping the lip. Your tile can then lay flat and can be set just shy of the tub top itself. Hope it makes sense. Schluter makes some great detailed videos of how to do tubs, I'd suggest taking a look at them to learn the proper way to install Kerdi products.
When you have a wall on the same plane that continues the length of the room, there is no way to fur out the backer board, thus you are stuck on top of the ledge.
There is always a way
Good one Sal. Thanks for all your tips !!
Thanks for this explanation! 👍 Just subscribed so we can easily find some of your other videos!
Awesome, thank you!
Hi thank you for the video very useful informative in very few words,straight to the point
hey sal been kiiking your vids more then four years always amazed by the work .... i have a question we bought a shower base tha has no flange on the side is there a way to instal those type a base or it the same for all shower bases
The manufacturers say do not overlap, they explain to put the cement board/Drywall on top the lip.
Thank you
Thank you for the information. This answered the exact question I had.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks I just did my bathroom and wondering where to sit dura rock and did put it over the lip and furred out the 2/4s thanks again for the tips
😊👍
And how did you deal with the rest of the wall? Furr the whole wall? Than move plugs and may be toilet? And how to deal with city inspection? Cuz here in north ca. Inspectors won't allow that, many times made us cut it above the lip
I've been doing tile for over ten years. It's supposed to be over the lip then sealed by various methods then the tile over the tubdeck with a slight gap. Then u caulk it n tile won't break unless set directly over tub. The durock over the tubdeck would get soaked n carry moisture into the studs. U r Def a professional beyond me I just never heard this before. If u do a slight grind on the back bottom edge it prevents contact with the tub to avoid cracking.
This is why I included the TCNA methods and a screen shot of one of them, to make it clear that this is what is called for by manufacturers, TCNA and proper standards, this is not my opinion.
@@SalDiBlasi tubs and shower pans have specific standards and specifications as well. For example if a contractor installs boards over the flange on a shower pan, they can have a huge problem because they build weep holes for a reason. But I'm not a kerdi pro n this is where this differentiates. But some manufacturers go out of business for a reason. I'm not a fan of kerdi boards unless the proper support system. I do use kerdi waterproofing system tho
I am intrigued as to how TCNA got the rights to certify installers....I mean some guys got together after deciding to retire and created this. It's always the installers fault even if they follow TCNA guidelines because they have clever excuses and lawyers
@@areare926 The TCNA is the recognized authority that sets methods of installation which are debated and approved by the manufacturers, and other interested parties to figure out what methods and standards will work to insure that any given installation will be successful and trouble free. The companies that make the products we use are the best equipped to determine the limitations and suitability of the products they make and how they should be used and combined. They are a non profit with the sole purpose of making the industry better and having reliable methods to have long lasting trouble free installations of tile products and all that goes with it. If an installation fails and goes to court, one of the most important texts that is used to determine if a proper method was used, is the TCNA, and the ANSI standards that go hand in hand with the TCNA. Tile certification by the TCNA is recognised by all the entities that require Certification.
@@SalDiBlasi non profit is a clever claim when the manufacturers are involved don't you think? I mean quite genius to say the least. Their primary goal then becomes liability concerns for their products and can care less about a proper installs not using their recommended products. Non profit then becomes insulting to the industry. I have seen entire walls go to plan b after inspectors. Expansion, contraction, moisture, soak, stud, mold.
The board goes on top and the tile goes on the bottom of the lip but neither oh them touch that’s what silicone is for so they both can move without cracking. The to.r will block the water from going over the lips as well as the silicone.
So the TCNA methods that I referenced at 3:48 in the video have no value, and should be ignored
@Sal DiBlasi Some say overlapping will cause the cement board to wick moisture. How much of this is true and what is the truth with the development of mold?
Thanks!!
When you have a guy like me that works in the plumbing industry and is just figuring out a simple tile job don't want to see videos like this giving the wrong information to people like me
Keep to plumbing, leave tile to the tile guys.
@@SalDiBlasi lol
@@SalDiBlasi 👍💜👍
@@SalDiBlasi sally your full of absolute shit. Completely wrong!!! Hang up the boots
My shower pan manufacturer recommends sitting it on the lip and sealing it to the lip with a silicone sealant.
That’s the right way to do it. There is no weak point......../
I agree, SAL is wrong on this one. If you build out from the tub the tile never sees the tub. The space between the tub and lip with the silicone move together.
@@7628739 yup Sal is definitely wrong on this, he sticks to his book but too stubborn to consider the manufacturer’s guidelines
@@peterjg001 we are human, born to make mistakes, I always say you learn from your mistakes
How about taking an electric planer cutting quarter inch slot into the vertical two-by-fours to allow the backer board 2 overhang the tub planned? Of course this would only be possible on a fresh install
99% of installs are done with the wallboard sitting ontop of the lip. Right or wrong it has worked over many years. I have yet to see an install where the wallboard sat infront the lip.
Darren R . Yes, but they do not exactly sit on the lip - I noticed about 1/8 inch space between lip and board in the few baths that I dismantled.
@@anonymousbyproxy8250 I keep finding those installs with the 1/8" to 1/4" space failing because of water wicking upward.
Depends what part of the world you're in. I deal with new construction and have never came across it on top of the lip
The instructions for the Sterling shower pan and tub I recently bout specify that the board sits inside like Sal has done in this video. Per the manufacturer's recommendation, this is correct.
Dansshield recommends on top of the lip.
Okay….makes sense when finishing with tile, regardless of size tiles. But, what is the process when installing large bath wall panels?
Thanks for the video, Mr. DiBlasi. I noticed in the TCNA reference that a moisture barrier was required between the framing and the backer board but I didn't notice this mentioned in your video or others. Please advise on that issue?
Depends on the type of backer board, A foam board does not need one as it is totally waterproof,, a cement board will require one, but if you apply a waterproofing membrane to the front, then you do not use the barrier on the back side. It is all very simple, until you dig in and and find out it is not.
@@SalDiBlasi Do you have a preferred moisture barrier/backer board combination? I've just learned of DensShield backer and may put Ames Blue Max over the seams--but still researching.
What fasteners should be used installing the Kerdi board over a Masonary wall with furring strips?
Thanks sal
depends but more are done with backer board to the lip and is proud of the lip slightly and tile then overlaps slightly and caulked in the lip area, should not be using grout for that edge anyway, right kind of caulk will be elastic and flex with any slight movement. if done right structurally should not have any noticeable movement.
Hi i want to tile my washroom that got jakuzi tub and if i use your method the tile that i am using is gonna be way inside the tub do I still have to use this method if i install it above the tub lips it looks ok is it gonna work if i use waterproofing membrane fabric and apply RedGard ? thanks
I boarded hundreds of showers and baths in new and reno projects with cement board. In new construction where the builder is selling faster than they can build, the board stops "above the top of lip regardless of water barrier issues or cracking issue" because 1. there was no one to shim out walls for cheap, 2. No inspection to meet code was ever done, 3. Was told the tile guy doesn't want to deal with slight bend of board if resting on tub. The tile guy applied the "fix" somehow and everybody got paid. In reno (at least the ones I did) the general contractors were always on the ball and followed code and best practice.
I wonder what that fix could have been, actually not, I have a pretty good idea what it was and it probably was not something that is approved.
Thats why im doing mine myself...LOL
Right on bro
So much misinformation around
Would this apply to installing a cast iron shower pan?
Yes thanks Sal that's how I was taught .
Thanks for watching my video.
Is it still suppose to sit over the lip when installing tiles?
Because of installers like you, I have to explain to my customers why their tile is horribly coming together in the corners and why their walls look more like a roller coaster than a tub wall...
Do you also show them the TCNA methods I point to, do you even know what the TCNA is.
Have some respect and you might learn something.Sal has laid more tile and has more jobs under his belt than anyone on RUclips.
He is the standard.Thats why other tile channels shout him out and seek his advice.
If your tile is coming together horribly in the corners and your walls look like rollercoasters that's your fault and yours alone. It's probably better that you explain to your customers why you are giving them their money back.
Thank you 🙏!!!! Just subscribed you!!!!!!!!
Thanks for subbing!
Sir. How do you install a tub to metal studs? Can you fur out metal studs?
thank very much for your video Sal, because lam having my tub/shower area done and l want it done right .B Hunter
Good luck!
Well i think Mr Sal and TCNA are wrong, otherwise inspectors wont make us cut those boards above the lip, if I do it like Sal recommend in this video, i never pass an inspection here in north Ca. It has to be to the edge no overlap
Good one Sal, I remember wavering a bit on this very issue doing my tub surround. I had a full tear-out of my old shower tile with a lot of uneven framing elements. I recall Schluter had indications for both options/methods. The overlap definitely made more sense to me, and I used your wet shimming method as well. I ended up cutting a very thin rabbit out of the back of the kerdi board so that it could both overlap the tub lip and not require extensive shimming or flare out at the bottom of the board. I also put in additional horizontal 2x4 blocking between studs around the perimeter just above the tub lip to help support that junction.
It is always hard to tell who is giving good info, one guy says do it this way, the other says no do it my way. That is why I included the method numbers and the picture of one of them in the video, to leave no doubt that this is not an opinion, but a recognized proper method of how it should be done. In the real world as you have discovered , sometimes steps have to be taken to make it work, but that does not mean you just ignore the proper standards and do whatever. Some modifications are acceptable, others are not, you made it work without compromising the integrity of the method.
To both of you : this is exactly the situation I am in. I do love the idea of rabetting the bottom . I think that it protects everything pretty well. I will be using the the Schluter transition moulding also. But i think that it is much more logic to overlap the whole system . I do not understand why Schlutter is not recommending that. I will put Kerdi fix behind the rabbet so it bonds to the lip and to the Kerdi board
Some say overlapping the lip causes mold. I think the guy said that water is absorbed by the board. What would cause the Mold to develop when overlapping?
I've heard it said that water can wick up if the backer sits on the tub which would be a huge problem if using drywall and I've HEARD this is a problem with hardibacker, I'm not so sure of that. Now any sort of foam board like Schluter's won't wick anything I expect and so trying to prevent it is unnecessary. I overlap and sit the backer on the tub itself with a big bead of silicone separating them@@stevenhalloway1736
how would you recommend transitioning from the firred out wall to drywall?
So if I do it the TCNA way instead of the manufacturer and it fails, then the manufacturer rejects my warranty claim because of it. Is TCNA going to pay for the repairs?
The tub manufacturer will not cover your tile installation, so if it fails they do not care. The TCNA Sets guidelines and methods that insure success, only thing that trumps the TCNA is the manufacturer recommendation on how to install their board. Schluter and other foam board manufacturers will allow your method installed their appropriate sealants and banding. Cement board has to be installed how I show in the video. Pick your poison.
Another awesome video Sal.
I don’t agree with this method even know it’s in the book.If anything you can notch the board on the bottom and apply sealant on tub flange and cap it.
I like to apply sealant to the tub flange a heavy amount and push board down into it. 100% sealed. Then come back thru and apply sealant along the board to tub deck void with sealant.
Wedi recommends notch the board and down over the flange like my first statement.
My tub lip is 3 inches high. Do I still put the board in front of it?
I always place the board (no matter what kind of backer) on the lip and fill the gap with sealer and thinset (while the sealer it still wet or tacky) and run the tile to the top of the tub. This way water never comes in contact with the backer board and you never get any wicking up the wall. Been doing it this way for over 30 years and never had a problem.
It would be wiser to follow TCNA methods and ANSI standards.
So what do you do when your new tub doesn't touch either end of the walls. by a quarter of an inch? Ferring strip all the way around the tub from top to bottom
Fur it out, sister in some studs, whatever needs to be done to get it right.
Hello Sal, question. when installing tile in a Tub, is it necessary to put tile or use bull nose after the open side border of tub? or can I just stop tile flushed with border of tub and use metal trimming. Thank you for your time..
Trim the tile edges any way you like and looks good.
Sal is it the same for an acrylic shower pan? Does the backer board go on the inside lip and not the top? Planning on using Wedi backer board with new shower pan.Thanks in advance.
same
Salute Sal ive learned learned a lot just by looking at your videos keep up the good work 👍🏾👍🏾
I appreciate that
0:56 Water will wick up the board if it gets through the tile grout. In addition the board will have to pull away from the wall to come out past the lip like that. Why not put a shim on top of the lip, then install the board on top of the shim, and caulk the gap before laying the tiles? That will take up for thermal expansion differences. Cement (in the wall board) and iron (in the tub) have approximately the same thermal expansion rates.
Exactly. Having 30 years experience tearing out tubs and showers and seeing first hand that placing the backer board on the tub or shower deck ALWAYS wicks and destroys the backer board and creates black mold. I have torn out dozens of showers and tubs that were tiled less than 5 years with extensive wicking damage with the backer board material placed on the tub or shower deck. A handbook can tell you whatever it wants, I can guarantee you those that wrote the handbook haven't torn out hundreds, if not thousands, of tubs and showers to see firsthand their method is incorrect.
If you fur the studs out in the tiled area, how do you address the transition from tile to existing drywall (that is not furred out) on walls that transition from tile to existing drywall?
I have the same question. After furring the tub wall out, how do I transition to the existing drywall in the bathroom. Cameron, How did you handle the transition?
Just don't do it like he says durorock or any other materials expose to water all the time is going to create moisture that's why you leave the durorock from the pan lips up
If you fur out the side walls there are several options to achieve a clean edge look and final result. Obviously furring out sides wont be flush with existing drywall so depending on the tile used will be what edge option you will want to go with. Schluter has a ton of edging that would work for this situation. Also there are bullnose and mudcap tiles, pencil liners, or mitering that all can make for a very classy and clean look.
@@joseangel4821
You are supposed to leave a 1/4 to 3/8 gap between the tub ledge ànd your cbu, shouldn't sit right on top of tub ledge, tile sits 1/8 above tub ledge. This is the recommended TCNA installation method .
Thank you so much Sal! So when you slide the Schluter foam board over the flange doesn't that create a bowed surface? What do you do then with the bowed surface?
The studs have been fired out to go over the lip and straight down
@@SalDiBlasi Hi Sal, our builder did not fir out from the studs. The alcove tub sits on an exterior wall and so we have the foam insulation and the studs and that's it....they screwed in the gypsum board straight to the studs that are not firred out. So if we go over a tub flange it's bowed at the bottom. if we bring the gypsum board straight down flush with the tub flange... isn't there some kind of waterproof ticking or tape we can run along the horizontal seam where the gypsum and the flange meet together?
I always fur out what I need to and install the backer board, so I can get it flat for tile. That is another reason I use foam board, very easy to wet shim and make the walls flat. Prep is key, letting the GC do the prep is never a good idea.
@@SalDiBlasi Hi Sal, so if we are using gypsum board/Fiberock...should that be placed on the tub deck or on top of the tub flange?
If you watch schluters video on tub prep it has the board ontop of the flange. Kerdi fix fills gap and thin set above it and kerdi band installed.
They do but the walls have been framed so the Kerdi Board and tub flange are flush. Kerdi Fix on the flange and thinset above on the board, then Kerdi Band bridges the joint. Sal is showing a method when the framing doesn't allow for flush installation to the flange. 👍
@@drummereef
The same method can be used if the board sits on the flange and the front of the board is not flush with flange. I would rather do this then shim the wall out and have to deal with the issue of the backer board being out farther then the drwall.
I have not done it but if using kerdi board you could probably just cut 3/16 off the back of the board so it slides over the lip.
@@mattwendorf1110 Yes, a rabbet on the back of the board would achieve the same result. Or teach the framers to read the drawings. Lol
I've had to do this both ways. On top and over. The new reno tubs can be 1 inch shorter in length. The old tubs a true 60 inches. The new 59.. Putting the board over the flange in certain situations causes huge issues with the outside edges where it meets the drywall. I've had installs where I've had to come up with solutions to make up over an inch tile edge finish after tile install. Using 1 inch L trim. Let me tell you It's not aesthecally pleasing. My solution is sealant filled in the tub edge area be itI schluter, wedi or prova. I have talked to the reps of all 3 products. That was there solutions. For tub installs where drywall was not required to be removed except the tub area and 3 inches past the tub.
Mangos as Weapons Totally agree. I did talk with them and they never mentioned the logic of rabbeting or shimming. I really like that logic.
Not important durock can sit on top of the flange, actually some prefer it so water doesn't wick up the durock once the caulk seam fails. If the durock is sitting on the flange and your tile goes down to within 1/8 of an inch of your tub or shower pan water will not rise up unless there is a flood to wick up the Durock.
I just did a tub install where the opening was wider about a half an inch than the tub, so what I did was stick backerboard behind the lip of the tub so that way it was flush with the drywall outside the tub area. That made the most sense to me in that situation.
Terrible idea...
What do you do if the tile backer board has to match up with existing sheetrock so you can't use furring strips to bring it in front of the tub flange? Thanks in advance!
I had to do some reframing to solve this problem
Trim the studs with a chisel so the tub lips can sit flush. That's by far the easiest solution.
good video Sal, question: do you have concern over wet shimming creating issues with expansion/contraction? As water content evaporates in the thin-set there is concern the mortar will shrink and therefore affect the entire span of the wet shimmed board. For this reason we prefer to sister studs or add 1/4" plywood to studs then add backer boards.
Home Repair Tutor I always asked my self that question. Great one. And great videos
Cousin Justin we consult with Schluter and on the last tub install used their approved method which was Kerdi-Fix between the tub and board then Kerdi-Band over that and on the board. We’re double checking with our Schluter rep to see if this recommendation has changed
Wet shimming works very well, approved and promoted by Schluter, and other foam board manufacturers, who am I to question it. I also have a video that shows just how well the thinset performs when used for wet shimming
It does not contradict my videos, I have always said to do it this way, you must be confusing me with someone else.
Specific manufacturers may have different methods allowed for the installation of their products, and a manufacturer recommendation will always supercede that of a TCNA method. This video is intended as a general guideline that follows TCNA Methods, which include several different tile backer panels, TCNA shows all the backer board installed as I described in this video. Schluter allows the installation of their Kerdi board both ways as long as you follow the recommendations they require, you will see that the installation requirements for schluter to be installed differ from one situation to the other.
What if tub dosen't have a lip like the sit down tub I'm going to install?
If you set on tub deck won’t water wick up then cause damage to walls if ever gets thru silicone on the tub?
I put tar paper behind the board.
Yep. Could do. Water does go uphill via capillary action. You create a narrow enough space and it'll wick up. Best defence would be a clear silicone bead around the upstand behind the board and a closed cell foam tile board. In the uk most of our shower trays don't even have an upstand.
Get a TCNA handbook, look up one of the methods I listed, read it, learn what all the details are and you will then understand why it is done that way
Hi I have a question please: a worker just installed a new shower wall with tiles up to the ceiling in my bathroom. However, the ceiling moves up if pushed (not properly attached to the tiled new wall). How can this be fixed please? Apparently he just realized that when he grouted the shower walls. He said he will try to screw to the wood stud (?) if not possible he will only use caulk. This is all I know. Any information on how to ensure the ceiling is properly secured to the wall (not moving) after the tiles are already installed will be much appreciated. Thank you!
Not knowing how the ceiling was constructed and the details of the job, impossible to say how to fix it, however if this is a mistake the installer made, he should fix it to your satisfaction. If the mistake was not his, and should have been pointed out to him, then you should come to an arrangement to compensate him to fix it.
@@SalDiBlasi Thank you Sal for the feedback! A friend took a look at it yesterday and said the ceiling was most likely not properly secured prior to the worker job started. We don't know about that. I have done nothing to the ceiling or any other place around bathroom and attic since living in the house. However, the remaining of the ceiling transition to wall areas in the bathroom seem secured. My friend knocked with his hands the ceiling area but could not feel any studs. He said the ceiling should be secured with screws either from inside the bathroom or from the attic (if no studs then some should be added) before the worker caulk that area (wall/ceiling transition). Any further suggestion please let me know ok? Otherwise, thank you very much for taking the time to reply and for the feedback!
Excellent information and instruction, albeit a ‘hurky jerky’ video! Who are these people in the comments section that disagree with Sal? What are they smoking? Lol at ‘ The GG,’ but I concur. Water needs an avenue to shed over into the tub area, should there be any leaks or problems. Think about it! Thanks Sal
The people that disagree do not believe or know of manufacturer recommendation or TCNA guidelines. Guillines that were listed in the video.
My acrylic tub has a 1/2 flange... it would be impossible to drop the Hardibacker over the flange. I'd have to have 1/2 furing strips and somehow blend that with the neighboring drywall? Any tips on how to deal with that? (I'm assuming butt the backerboard on the flange and caulk? Do I still drop tile down on flange? How does the tile adhere to the flange?)
I have the same issue. I’m going to fur out the tub wall 1/2 and then add the 1/2 inch Wedi board. How did you handle this ?
in a thread above, a poster recommends using "transitioning" tiles to over that 1/2 inch at the drywall, such as a bullnose edge tile. Sure, that transitioning edge is going to show a thicker protrusion where it meets the drywall but that is the suggested solution. For my project, I'm putting hardy on top of the flange and using appropriate membrane material and red guard to over the ⅛ gap I plan to leave between the cement board the metal tub. I think Sal is following recommended procedures but it's more work and there are proven methods to do a professional job with your preferred backer board on top of the lip.
Hey sal are you familiar with Bituthene. I use it around my tub inserts. Drywall/duroc material stay up 1/8-1/4 inch up off of tub. And use 6” Bituthene to connect the two materials. With Bituthene rolling down tub at 1/2” no cuts in corners solid price all the way through. Would like your opinions. One professional to another. Thank you.
I would say that a roofing material is not suited to a wet area like a shower or a tub area, there are plenty of methods and materials specifically designed to be used for tile in a wet area. There is no reason to modify or adapt a product intended for a different purpose.
Sal DiBlasi thank you for your input! However not just a roofing product actually a waterproofing material meant for various applications!
@@cody8772 i've used it to waterproof metal and wood framing on concrete and flashing on doors and windows. i first used it about 3-4 years ago and never had to go back ,yet
If you want to avoid shinning could you rabbet cut the kerdi a bit?
This is more for cement board type materials, Kerdi board can go on top then sealed with Kerdi Fix and banding. I didn't have any cement board for the video.
So if you go down over the tub deck lip then the board flares out. How do you get your tile to lay flat at that point?
Do you have a video on that part?
Thats why you shim the wall out
@@DonRobertson82 What about where you are adjoining the regular wall sheetrock -- how do you make that connection if the tub shower substrate is shimmed out to go over the lip?
Even though I’ve placed 1/4” strips to push Hardi backer board out to better go over tub there are several areas that still have to flare-out to go over lip. If I added additional strips on 2x4 wall edges to push board out for those specific areas it would them through everything else off. So frustrating! I think the best way is to bring down and stop cement board at top of tub lip and seal with some sort of bonding or tape/cement material prior to application of water proof sealer. I’m probably going to end up having to cut off approximately 3/4 to 1” of hardi board at tub to relax these problematic areas. So frustrating!
Where the bump out (1/4”) occurs, this is where I plan on stopping my shower tile which I plan to cap/butt up with a tile trim that sort of looks like baseboard molding-but much smaller-maybe 2” to 2-1/2”. I have to ensure where tile ends it is level from floor to ceiling (tile will run from tub to ceiling (~2-1/2” strip of will run past tub (front and both sides). That’s my plan which is subject to change if for some reason it doesn’t work. Schluter makes all different kinds of trim that can help to cap trim. Or there’s pencil tile trim you can use to cap where shower tile ends.
Sal your videos are always packed full of information. Next time you do a cast iron tub, I'd like to see how you make that transition from the wall board to the drip edge.
Ok
Why not do it Sal's way but use an uncut edge to meet the pan that is slathered in redguard a few inches up on both sides assuring it wont wick moisture?
I has the installation from hardie backer board and it says to put it 1/4 from the top of tub, so now what?
yes, leave a gap between the tub deck and the board.
Thank you
I will also say that the method of choice depends on the type of tile as well. If you are installing large wall tiles than having the board on top of flange and sealing in the gap then riding your tile to the tub at bottom is fine. If youre installing mosaics on wall then youre going to want a very flat surface so it looks nice and clean. My two cents.
You're correct.. Backer Board should never hang over and rest on the tub lip.. only let tile hang over
hello sir i’m installing green board drywall do i need special screws? also does drywall go to floor behind shower pan and ends up with no drywall or does it just stop above lip??
Don't put drywall in a shower.
@@SalDiBlasi Use greeboard on your bathroom walls but never in a shower or as a tub surround. It's not going to last with the constant water hitting it. Use your preferred backer board and then tile it or use pre manufactured surrounds to protect the walls.
South Africa use aluminium channel at bottom of board and leave same gap size as for grout same gap for tile then seal especially board only is porous to seal directly against
What if existing bathroom width is consistent with width acquired by putting board on top of lip? To shim out to go over lip, you would need to shim out and re-sheetrock the whole bathroom to meet that width? In that case, why not use adhesive flashing down the stud and over the lip so water cannot get behind tub even if caulk line fails?
Most of the bathrooms that are remodeled are gutted, existing drywall is removed and all replaced, plan for the tub placement then. In other cases there is a corner near the tub on one end, easy to push the tub all the way to the other side and fur out that short wall. Not doing something correctly because it is inconvenient is a poor excuse.
At the bottom of the tub, how do you prevent the water from going under the edges of the boards to prevent it from being wet and swelling up? If the board is resting on the edge/lip of the tub and a person is taking a bath and splashing and water running on the edges, or water vapor dripping downward, eventually the moisture will go under the edges of the board and deteriorate the board.
Refer to these TCNA methods B412 specifically for cement board, at 3:53 and B411, B440, B419, B425, B430, for other backing types.
I concur with Ryan. Only follow manufacture of specific material not general recommendation or a book
Exactly what I needed to know. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
OMFG Sal I should have come to your channel right away. Been searching for this for months to finish my basement shower base with wedi board. I which you were in toronto so I could take advantage of your services. 🤨
hey sal ,great info , i'm working for an independant con artist , i should say i was because i quit today . this guy hangs up durock, rough side then rubs mortar in the joints and tells me to paint it with the water proofing material. i couldn't tell him i didn't think he was going about it the right way but ,i forgot to mention, he is a retired nypd officer, so he already knows everything , am i crazy?
I cut a rabbet inset on bottom inside edge of backer board, just as you would with wood, using a router. This allows backer edge to come in full contact with tub ledge, and doesn’t bow backer outward…
what is the best method to install HARD TO REACH close to bathroom ceiling backer-board WITHOUT putting ladder in the TUB itself?!!!?
Just how high is the ceiling? Most times stepping on the tub rim is enough. Of coarse the tub should be protected before you start doing anything.
I wish I would of seen your video first! Instead I watched 20 other “professional” videos telling me their opinion but you backed up your reason in how to do it. I know this video is a few years old but, Thank You!
Glad it was helpful!
To everyone crapping on Sal, especially those who keep saying that Schluter/Kerdi instructs to put their product/backerboard on top of the flange only, you are either incorrect or misinformed (or both). I have seen plenty of Kerdi how-to manuals (and other bath installation manuals such as Kohler) where they recommend both ways i.e. to either put the backerboard on top of the flange OR over it as Sal demonstrates. He's not the only one who says to do this. If you're concerned about water wicking into CBU, just seal the back of the board 6 inches up and on the edge where it meets the tub with redgard or something else. Problem solved. No wicking. If you want extra insurance (or assurance?) then put a Kerdi band along the bottom of the board where it meets the tub. They literally demonstrate this in Schluter-Kerdi videos such as the one at this link. ruclips.net/video/q_Nijf3ZNXg/видео.html