"A Paul Harrell Production" - no doubt about it. Thank you for your entertaining videos. That being said I hesitate to point out - "ahem, uh, sir" - with your first ft/lb comparison, 63/56 is 1.125. A 12.5% increase in energy. That's a statistically significant difference. "Pardon my insolence, please."
I shot my 20 ga. shotgun and determined it's maximum effective range. I changed ammo and increased it's max effective range by 20% WOW! 20%! that's a lot! Except what that really meant was it went from 25 yards to 30 yards. Not that much. Sometimes the percentages don't mean a lot. 40 FPS added velocity is more relevant than 7 more EFP
@@PaulHarrell "Oh hell yeah! Paul Harrell spoke directly to me! Sure it was to chastise my insolence, and remind me that he's got a 20 gauge shotgun and I don't. But, still, he spoke to me!" My life is complete. I shall run out and grab a case of Pop Tarts. Seriously, I really enjoy your videos. I watch them all the way through. You remind me of my slightly irascible grandfather. He was born and raised in Louisiana ("Sportsman's Paradise") and took me shooting and hunting (along with fishing) since I was a young boy. I'm 62 this year, so naturally you're probably too young to be my grandfather, I guess. But, still the spirit of the "old-timers" is strong in you. Also, 10% is considered statistically significant. lol This is the part where my grandfather would send me to my grandmother, so I could pester her for awhile.
Percentages can be useful, but they can also be extremely misleading if not applied with proper context. for instance, if you sell a hundred units of a product and one of them happens to be defective, that's a 1% failure rate. However if you sell a million of them with a 1% failure rate, that means ten thousand units failed. with the 1/100 failure, that particular customer might be ensconced and never return, but most other people would probably write that it off as unfortunate fluke. However ten thousand people complaining about a defective product is absolutely going to make headlines and become a big problem for the manufacturer. Same percentage, drastically different result. Misused percentages are also a great tool for propagandists. _"Gun violence incidents doubled in Podunkville Wisconsin after the city approved a new gun range! Clearly that place is a bad influence and a training ground for villains. We should close it down right now!"_ Then you read the details and learn that one criminal was shot and killed during a robbery last year, and this year there were two hunting accidents. 200% is a legitimate number to apply, but it's not the significant data point that sensationalist twit would have you believe.
Technically that's not true. Running the individual EFP calculations for each shot using the chronograph numbers through a 2-Sample T-Test, with a 99% confidence interval and a resulting P-Value of 0.01, indicate that there is no statistically significant difference between the EFP numbers in the first chrono test. Likewise, analysis of the velocity numbers results in a P-Value of 0.03, also indicating that there was no statistically significant difference in the velocity numbers. Sorry for the nerdy stuff, but this is what I do for work and I enjoy figuring this stuff out. Edit: Statistical significance is determined based on a thorough analysis of multiple data points over a larger sample size using various hypothesis testing tools. It can never be accurately determined using a sample size of 1 and is never based on a flat arbitrary percentage such as 10%. That's not how statistics work. Edit 2: Fixed a typo.
The first murder trial I was ever able to sit in and observe, involved the .25 ACP. Person A was attacking person B with a crowbar. Person B shot person A in the chest twice at a range of about 3 feet. Person A staggered back a few feet, fell to the ground and expired. It was determined to be a case of self defense and person B was acquitted.
The first murder trial I observed was the murder of a law enforcement office on Christmas eve in the subway (not the sandwich shop). It was a sad event, but it does show that even the .22 LR can be fatal.
@@ayugoslav5554 Only 29ftlbs of energy need to punch a hole in the avg human skull, so you are correct. I always carry by backup .22lr with CCI Velocitors or Punch.
Great video. My dad (a WW2 US Navy frogman) carried a Beretta .25. It saved his life three times one of which also saved my daughter's life. Thanks for doing such informative content.
First instance. 1991 Portland, Oregon. Two individuals had broken into the trunk of his car outside a motel room. They popped it with a crowbar. The trunk lid squeaked loudly upon opening so he was alerted to the crime. He exited the room where he was confronted by the guy with the crowbar. They demanded his wallet he produced the Beretta instead. End of story. Second instance. 1995 Latrobe, Pennsylvania. My daughter was playing in a kiddie pool upon hearing screaming my Dad went outside to discover a gray fox attacking her viciously. He attempted to stop the attack but they both had been bitten several times. He used the .25 to shoot the fox hitting it twice out of three. My daughter was badly injured 19 stitches to left ankle and 21 in left hand. Pennsylvania state game commission sent the fox's head to a lab in Cresson PA. Rabid results. Both had been given the abdominal injections prior to receiving results. Third instance. 1997 Stahlstown, Pennsylvania While attempting to intervene in a domestic dispute at one of my folks rental properties he was approached by the male who had seriously beaten his spouse and was flailing a chain wrench. Dad was able to subdue the bastard and held him at gunpoint until PA state police arrived.
During my 33 year career in a NE urban wasteland Police Dept I saw quite a few homicide victims over the years shot with either a 22LR or a 25 ACP.. Killed just as dead as someone shot with a 45. They are not toys for sure and a pocket .22 or 25 sure beats the .45 you left home because it was too bulky to have with you at that particular moment..
I can’t even begin to tell you how many people got hit with a .380 in Birmingham, AL but .25 ACP was very common too. They seem to like the smaller calibers in the ghetto since they’re so much easier to hide.
Agree with everything you said!! Rule one in a gun fight...Have a gun.....But that is why we also call it "stopping power"...and not "killing power"....A drugged up scumbag coming at you with a knife will end up just as dead if shot with 22/25.....but you will end up fighting him until he drops....and maybe drops you too.....But any gun is better than no gun.....
Thanks for your comment! I'm retired from a full adventures street and outdoor life style. I worked in the college police dept., trained in the military, and outdoored in some tough dangerous places. In fact, it was either 22's or a 25 caliber I was carrying to defend my self when dangerous circumstances struke., and each in turn did their job. The 25 was what I had with me when I faced 3 street thugs, and they each belived their life was in danger when I pointed it at them. One 22 was used in a shoot out, and the other to kill a large German Shepard dog who was attacking me. I have had the necessary gun training, and shoot or pull out my guns in the proper motions and battery, with the will to use them, if necessary. The thugs or animals see and recognize those motions as bad news for them, and then knowing the gun is there for selfdefense, it;s time for them to hit the road. The Biggest Thing, is having a gun wity you!
My grandpa was a police officer in Nashville TN in the 1960's through the late 1980's. Believe it or not there were some really dangerous areas in the city back then. For most of that time his service weapon was a 4 inch 38 special but he also had a Beretta Jetfire in 25 acp in his front pocket everywhere he went. He used to tell me that the Beretta and a speed loader were almost the same size and weight. He died when I was young and I don't remember all of the stories he told me clearly but I do remember one about the Beretta stopping a snake that was going to bite him. There were some about the Jetfire protecting him from criminals as well. I have carried a Jetfire 25 many times and I used it to stop a pack of dogs from mauling me once. The little 25 pistols are tiny and can always be on your person. They also have way less recoil than small 380 pistols and can be fired very accurately and quickly. It would not be wise to underestimate them.
I might be wrong but Didn't Browning invent the 25 ACP vest pocket to protect himself from coyotes. I'm sure I heard it watching a documentary years ago.
The final ten minutes of the video speaking to us without an edit. Well done Sir. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Paul is a talented speaker even if he is too critical on himself.
Right? He calls the wrap-up at the end "the boring part where I talk" but that's what I come to his videos for! I appreciate that he records his testing methods and results (because a report without data is just a marketing gimmick) but I'm here for his analysis and opinions. I don't always agree, but I've gotten used to being wrong on occasion. (grin) I wonder, if I went to him to have my teeth cleaned, if he'd explain some point of ballistics to me while I'm in the chair for an extre $20.
@@daveh7720 "On the left bicuspid I'm going to use Kolorz white box mint-flavored medium grit polishing compound. On the right bicuspid I'm going to use Gelato white box cherry-flavored extra coarse grit polishing compound. Is that enough of a difference to make a difference? You be the judge...."
as a non gun owner, I greatly appreciate these presentations. a consistent format with regularly repeated philosophy of facts, honesty and integrity. an opportunity to listen in on an expert's viewpoint and critical thought. and no BS personal politics or extreme egos.
I came to essentially the same conclusions back in the mid 80's. I was looking for a really small hideout gun in an employment setting where I simply could not be seen to be armed. I bought a Beretta 950 Jetfire in .25 ACP. I was working as a paramedic in the inner city projects, and felt that if I was going to have a fist fight with a junkie trying to attack me for my drug box, I'd rather fight a guy who had 8 quarter inch holes in him at the start. We wore flight suits at the time, and I carried the Beretta in the front chest flap pocket. Nobody ever "made me" as armed. The little Beretta was unfailingly reliable, and more accurate than it had any right to be. I decided in advance that if I had to shoot, my aiming point would be the face below the brow line. I'd seen enough handgun rounds strike the skull, and then skitter off the side of the head just under the skin to aim any higher. A trauma surgeon I worked with told me, "they don't call it the cranial vault for nothing." Even though my 950 technically could hold 9 rounds, I found it more reliable loaded with 8. I never had to shoot anyone with my little .25, but I did have to pull it once in the exact scenario I had envisioned. The sight of it changed my knife wielding attacker's mind and he ran away. I considered myself very lucky. I hated paying the price, even back then for .25 ammo, but figured it was a small price to pay for reliability. I got a Beretta 21 in .22 LR, reasoning that I could use it for cheap practice, using only the SA trigger and it would be "close enough" as a stand-in for my 950. While I did save the price of the gun in cheap practice, I had enough malfunctions with the 21 that I would never have trusted it enough to carry it. It would appear that not much has changed in 40 years. Like you, I get good reliability in my larger .22 autos. Today the smallest auto pistol I own is my Glock 42, which has been a very satisfactory handgun. There are times that I'd like to have another 950 for old times sake, but when you find them these days, they are a bit expensive.
Paul you are too cool to lose and just heard you have the C word and want you to know I love you and will be praying for you and keep on keeping on please
A story about me while serving in combat in the Vietnam theater, 1967 through1969. In 1967, I was wounded by an AK 7.62X39 and spent a couple of weeks recovery in Cameron Bay. I got back with my group in Thailand at a party, there was a beautiful Thai girl, There was a bounty on me. She wanted the bounty and pulled a Beretta Model 20 25 ACP pistol, I reached for the pistol and was shot in the abdomen, I had to be helped out of the house, and it took 3 weeks to recover. I have been shot 3 times and the 25 ACP was by fare the most painful.
Thank you for taking the time to re-hash the .22/.25 comparison. If my life was dependant on reliability, the .25 would be my choice. Most likely also would be used in very close "save your life" distances or "get off me" use. As you pointed out, nowadays the .380 is available in pistols almost the same size as .25's, so I would opt for the .380 for close encounters. As as an arthritic senior citizen, the recoil of a .380 would be substantial, I figure that if my life is in danger, that first shot may be all that is needed to reduce the threat. I can live with that. I enjoy your videos, even if they re-hash old stories. Makes my day.
Hi Tony, my wife is 72 and losing her grip strength. She recently switched to the S&W 9mm EZ. She says it recoils softly in her hand and it fits better than many other options. S&W also makes the EZ in .380 ACP. I can hold them both comfortably. They are both easy to rack, which was my wife's problem.
If you were in a life or death situation, I think that the adrenaline rush would overcome any fear you have despite your arthritis, of the recoil of even a 45 ACP. Of course Target shooting practice would be an issue. But you could use a smaller caliber gun I suppose for muscle memory. But any gun is better than no gun when you need it. One 22 round straight into the eyeball of a perpetrator will get the job done.
I have a Beretta bobcat in 22lr. If I’m going with a gun that small I see no problems with using 22lr for a self defense pocket gun. I’ve fired close to 1000 rounds through it with a handful of failures. However almost all of those failures came from bulk pack ammo. I only had two stove pipes from CCI mini mags of which is the last 800 rounds fired through the gun. However those last two failures were through a gun that hadn’t been cleaned in almost 500 rounds. I’d say as long as you keep it regularly maintained, a gun in 22lr will serve you just fine.
I got my father set up with 22Tcm doublestack 1911, as he has had both his wrists fused as he wore the joints completely out. Its all he can do to rack the slide and its only a 7lb spring. But I know he will have enought to protect himself in the event of an emergency. Its very low recoil so he should be OK there.
Another great video by the master himself. I work at a gun store in Kentucky, and I don’t see a lot of 25acp coming around. But history has shown that center fire rounds are much more reliable, and that’s a major factor. Having said that, for self defense I’d take either of these over a stick I picked up off the ground. Thank you sir!
History has also shown that cheaply loaded crap is cheaply loaded crap so take it all with a grain of salt. Most people buy 22s for plinking and therefore buy cheaply loaded crap. 25 is pretty hard to find, which leads to believe that often if you can find some it's probably cheaply loaded crap. I do believe there is a fair variety of very reliable 22s on the market and the availability of quality ammo probably puts the 22 above the 25 as far as an overall reliability rating when combining a pistol and ammo in today's real world...
@@beargillium2369 "puts the 22 above the 25 as far as an overall reliability" Except the 22 malfunctioned multiple time, the 25 not once. Not too reliable to me. When I pull the trigger, it is for a reason. Not firing could mean the difference between life and oh well.
@@beargillium2369I don’t get your logic. I’d assume the few .25’s out there would be better quality. And centerfire goes bang more reliably than rimfire
Always the best when it comes to offering information to your viewers. You have made many people much more responsible & knowledgeable gun owners. Thank you Paul, you have done your service thrice over.
Am I the only one that can watch Paul’s content as almost like a guided meditation? I learn something, perhaps even about myself, and feel confident and relaxed by the end. Thanks, Paul!
Another difference you didn't point out between this and your last version - the video / camera quality is much improved. Thank you for your dedication to the multiple crafts that go into making these presentations.
I had reliability issues with my Beretta 21A in .22 Long Rifle, i.e., failures to feed. What I did was to polish the feed ramp to an almost mirror finish, and also the lower half of the mouth of the chamber, careful not to bevel it, but just to do away with the roughness it had. It worked, and now the failures to feed are a thing of the past. I hope sharing my experience will help others. Thank you for your great presentations.
Paul, although the 22vs 25 debate is as old as the hills and has been beaten to death, the way you presented it, the way you compared them and the way in which you tested them was brilliant. BTW, I get a kick out of your mannerisms, way of speaking and expressing yourself - don't apologize for the way you are. I also believe that because of today's world when many people who never would have considered getting a gun before are now getting them, this comparison was very spot on. Just figured I'd give you my opinion - for what that's worth.
I can live with single take monologs. You are an intelligent, well spoken individual. You are not reading off a teleprompter. I appreciate the "fireside chat" endings. Well done.
I was about to comment about Gun Control Act 1968 having an effect of the decline in the 1970s of the .25acp so I'm glad you covered that. Always happy to see the baby Browning make an appearance, even in a non - firing role. I remember those, I'm old.
My ex-step grandmother had a Baby Browning. It was VERY accurate, despite its teeny sights, and reliable. I would have liked to have had it, but "ex" and all stopped that dream.
My elderly mother has one that rides in a specially designed pocket on the inside of her purse, and has since way way before the current "easy to carry' days.
I found this very insightful. The significantly better reliability of the .25 ACP justified why I would also pick it over a .22 LR. If the gun fails to fire when you need it, nothing else will matter.
I've owned over the years, 3 21A's. So in a sample of 3, to a gun they all functioned extremely well with the CCI mini mags. Almost all other ammo I ran through them was a crap shoot. One thing I found in common with all of them was they were sensitive to dirty chambers.
You are a better shot than me. No way I would attempt to shoot that little tiny gun into a space that small from that distance. Keep up the good work bro!
My wife carries a 25 pocket pistol manufactured by Taurus. Some say junk. However, she is very proficient with it and very rarely a malfunction. Hers shoots a very good group to the right of the bull and as you said has overcome that by aiming left. She also shoots fmj ammo. She just won't carry anything else. Which is a lesson in, carry what's good for you. Not someone else.
I like how his videos are long and not crazy loud with distracting music. I often have them playing in the background when I'm trying to sleep. I don't sleep well and it and a fan helps drown out the tinnitus.
My wife just inherited a little .25 browning hooker gun. The same kind that were banned from import in the 60s. It's got the fake mother of pear grips and stainless slide. Her grandpa was a wild dude in his younger days and he won it in a poker game about 60 years ago when he was in the military.
I have an old antique prostitute dagger. It's pretty neat. It has a spike blade ( like a spike but triangular on all sides). It cannot cut. Very French
Thank you for the remake. This has sufficient information for making a choice between calibers 22 and 25 in pistols the size of your Beretta 21A. The meat target performance was better than I expected, and ten-yard accuracy demonstrated that neither cartridge fired in small pocket pistols is totally hopeless.
God Bless you Brother Paul! You take EXCELLENT care of us. This is a very good comparison and information we don’t deserve this much work! Thank you ❤️🖖🏼🇺🇸
Interesting subject as usual. For those who find the chronograph work tedious and skip ahead to the chart, you're missing some significant malfunctions in the ammo which could figure GREATLY in your choices!
Honestly, I was pissed by the flaws of your first video. I appreciate you recognizing the need to revisit. You regained my trust with the new fair comparison.
My 1908 .25 is wonderful concealed. I have a 1914 holster with a lock trigger thing that prevents the pistol from coming out accidentally. Made for a 1903 but will fit the 1908. It's all shot placement. 3-25ft average gun fight. I feel more than safe out with the family with a vest pocket. Cheers from Chicago. Rip paul
Bought a Jimenez Arms JA-25 .25acp pistol at a pawn shop for cheap. The gun is surprisingly reliable if you keep it maintained and lubricated. I carry it as a backup gun in a pocket holster along with my Makarov.
categorically so. There are tons of YT channels using clear ballistic gel. NONE of them seem to realize that this medium IS NOT comparable to ordnance gel. Guns & Cars has a channel where he demonstrates multiple times the differences, sometimes large, between bullet performance in organic ordnance gel and clear ballistics synthetic gel. in addition, the meat target shows the effect of energy; ballistic gel tends not to. Those who hunt with handguns know that higher power leads to quicker incapacitation and this fact is even codified in the laws that may prohibit hunting with certain cartridges like 9x19 entirely. most hunters would consider 9x19 inhumane to hunt with because of its slowness to incapacitate vis a vis a cartridge generating far more power even at the same bullet weight and bullet profile.
Damn Paul! I'm seriously regretting not buying tickets to fly up to meet you during this and other shows / events... IF I find out you are going to show up at any other, please let me and the rest of us know! This may sound somewhat silly but all the experience and info transcends (and will continue to do so) generations... Both my brother and I have run our kids through most of your videos.. We grew up with a combat Vietnam Vet father and were loading custom rounds with oversight from way back! (Even if we weren't allowed to shoot them at that time).. That being said, you sir have been a fountain of knowledge and testing.. THANK YOU, Paul!
I have 2 CZ 45, 25 ACP mouse guns, and they aren't as small as a browning baby or a colt vest pocket, but the fact that they are DAO and have never malfunctioned means if you have one stashed in a pocket you never have to wonder if it is cocked, or if it will function (at least going by the 2 I have) and that means a lot more to me than if I have a few more foot pounds of energy.
.25acp might not always solve a problem, but it's not a terrible way to introduce yourself to a problem. Bad guys often have considerably less fight in them, after they've had a few holes punched in them.
@Gieszkanne I'm 6'5". Most folk are shorter than I am by a bit, and angles matter. There's a big open hole in the scull behind the nose, and right behind that is the apricot sized doodly-doo that runs the basic CNS. I call it, "The Snot Locker". One round of damn near anything, right in the snot locker, will usually end a problem right freaking now. Great point you're making. I like it. A lot.
In my experience .22 caliber ammo is picky with the gun your using. You have to try different ammo and find what works best in that gun. Paul started out with the Remington Gold that did not work well. Next the CCI mini-mag which also had a few hick-ups. Then Paul used CCI Stinger which appeared to work flawlessly. Myself, I tried different ammo till I found what shoots best and consistently. For my Ruger LCP2 .22, I find that Armscor 36 grain HP runs great. Also, Aguila 38 grain HP runs great. My gun did not like the Aguila 40 grain RN. Also did not like the bulk Federal ammo RN. I think .22 is a great conceal carry option "once you know" what runs good in your particular gun. Keep them cleaned and oiled. Thanks for the comparison. Great video
It was great meeting Paul at the gun show. I had no idea he'd be there. I'd been at the hospital for days and was really tired but had to go. I'm very glad I did lots to learn. Just had to say, thanks!
Personally, I’d carry a .25 if I had too. I can get it easily in my location and I don’t mind the cost of the ammo if I’m just going to use it for carry with occasional range time. Plus, I just like the more obscure calibers. The “increased” reliability is nice too.
@@timt8029 If you want too, check out our channel. We shoot oddball stuff all the time. I’ve got 24 and 32 gauge shotguns, and we do stuff with 10, 16, and 28 quite a bit.
I own a Beretta 950 Jet Fire for 30+ years. It is still my back up pistol. It was referred to me by someone who used to worked for the highway patrol for reliability. The reason why I never used a .22 caliber pocket rocket is exactly what you have stated. The chance of a miss fire when it mattered the most. Thank you for showing the difference with these pocket pistols.
Thank you for being an informative individual providing presentations in this format. We have all determined that guns go bang and bullets tend to move rather quickly, but actually having the data presented in a professional and realistic format is fantastic
I owned and enjoyed both of these guns. I agree that the 25 was more reliable. I had a number of problems with the 22, failure to feed, failure to extract, stove pipe, failure to go into battery. A gunsmith friend of mine told me to lubricate it heavily for the first few hundred rounds. Worked like a charm. After that I shot it without incident though I still preferred the 25. The same pistol is also available in 32ACP
Leave to Paul Harrell to remake a video that he had previously put out because he found a way to improve upon it or provide us with additional details. The only thing I'm missing is the continuing educational credits after learning yet something new from his productions. The best part is the instructions and knowledge are free. Keep them coming!
One thing also about the .22: the bullets are not seated in the case as well as the .25 because the .22 is a heel based bullet. This makes it easier for oil to seep in and foul the powder charge. This is a consideration for a gun that will be carried a lot and only fired infrequently and likely neglected by most carriers.
I will carry what is available and train for malfunctions and so on and so forth. If it puts holes on the perp, then its better than a stick or cane that I walk with. Thank you Paul for a deep understanding of what small calibers can do.
I very much enjoy the ballistics analogies and perspective of your videos ( which I just discovered) and look hopefully will meet you in in your show in a few weeks. While you clearly noted this was not a recommendation of either caliber, I will just add a personal bias. That said and admitting that I am an old gun guy(75) … a few observations and admitted prejudices: - FTFs/stovepipes with rimfire cartridges were Identified and typical… I would not deliberately ‘carry a .22 as a defensive weapon in any situation - Exclusive of any comparison of calibers and stopping power whether a .25 ACP or .44 mag, or suitability as a carry CC sidearm , the prime directive remains shot placement - I was taught by one of the finest defensive shooters that I ever met that “ the best defensive handgun you can carry” … is the one you have when TSHTF. For many years I have dropped a Beretta Jetfire .25 semi auto in my picket when walking the dog or non event going’s on. One saved my life with a crackhead trying to pull me out of the car and my daughter had to shoot a pit bull that cornered her. Would a heavier caliber been preferred.. bell he’s, but it’s what I had.
I’ve been a viewer for many years. I remember your earlier mentioned video on this topic, having watched it a few years ago. I think it’s important that you’ve covered this topic again. For one reason…there are thousands of people each year entering their retirement years, many of whom may decide to carry personal protection for the first time. And a percentage of these people may have limitations which preclude their ability to use higher caliber firearms. And I agree with you on your choice of the .25 after having many malfunctions using .22 in small handguns. Thanks, Paul.
Knowing that Paul could take you out with a .22 or a .25 just let's me know he is the wrong man to mess with. He is truly the definition of FAFO. Thanks as always Paul.
7 ft/lbs is 1/9th of 63, 1/8th of 56. That's 11.1%-12.5% more. You said that at the velocities you got, 40 fps was fairly significant, 40 of 800 is 1/20, or 5%, or 1/19 for the lower velocity, which is like 5.2% I think. Which is easily greater than 2 times (the % difference for velocity). Semper Fi, devil dog! Love the content
I live in Polk County, Florida (home of Sheriff Grady Judd (for those who don't know him, look him up. It's worth the effort.)) and every time you say you'll be in Polk County I get excited, and then you say Oregon. Have a good time and thanks for the great videos.
I'm glad this was a new vidoe not a re-hash of his previous (really old) 22 versus 25 videos. Both are better than a stick when used with proper ammo in well maintained and reliable firearms. The 25 auto will definitely be more reliable in general in pocket pistols due to being centerfire.
Great stuff. If I understand then it would appear that it was mostly a situation of not enough of a difference to make a difference between the two calibers until reliability came into play. And then 25 walked all over 22, at least in this demonstration. And that would tip the difference for me as well. Great presentation, as always.
I have found a pitted barrel in a Colt 1908 vs. one with a mint barrel that really impacts penetration. Yes, you could not test two guns that were better than your two identical firearms. Great review. I appreciate your professional dedicated work.
@@DinoNucci probably so worn out that the tolerances are opened up to where it doesn't build as much pressure in the case. It may just be enough to matter when you're talking about .25 acp.
Thank-you for continuing your excellent content, Paul! The fact that you've improved upon a previous video shows your respect for your audience and your dedication to your craft. 10+ years of videos, all created to inform, educate, enlighten and entertain those of us who prefer content quality over window-dressing and theatrics. Your experience and achievements speak for themselves; your refusal to use sensational and hyperbolic speech shows your seriousness; your pursuit of truth without jingoism or screaming obscenities shows your integrity, which has never faltered. People wiser than myself have called your channel "the thinking man's firearms channel" with good reason. Please keep it up!
Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say
I was looking at those guns at a gun show 25 years ago. I asked how much the ammo was and .25 was pretty pricy and I had a .22 rifle so I got the .22. Even if I wanted to carry it, I never truly trusted that Beretta. It jammed all the time, mostly failure to eject. I would clean it thoroughly, and try different ammo, but never found the perfect ammo. To me, the point of impact was a secondary issue and was never researched, but it was all over the place brand to brand. I always suspected the .25 would have been better, but when you are 20, dumb and cheap, lessons are plentiful! I finally sold it last year to get a .22 revolver that can chew up cheap .22. Thanks for the awesome content.
Back in 1982 I was just a kid. My uncle bought me an FIE Titan in .25 caliber. We never had a single jam over many years. That always impressed me, because the price of the Titan .25 plus a box of ammo was under $100 including tax back then.
Great comparison.👍 Old time vest pocket pistol wisdom used to be “own both, practice with the cheap .22, but carry then.25 for reliability.” Your test bears that out. I have a Phoenix that handles Stingers, but many mouse guns hate that extra length case. Anything I carry as a pocket backup is going to be tested for reliability, same as my primary .45.
I have a Ruger SR22 that I've fired a good bit, and it's never had a malfunction that I can remember. I also have a Phoenix in .25 acp and I can't remember having a malfunction with it, but I haven't fired it that much. A plus for the .25 is that it's reloadable, but is probably still cost prohibited at today's prices. The smallest caliber that I carry is a .32 acp and that's only in t-shirt weather. I carry a .380 Taurus TCP a lot that has a laser on it. As always, a very good presentation. Thanks.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
"A Paul Harrell Production" - no doubt about it. Thank you for your entertaining videos.
That being said I hesitate to point out - "ahem, uh, sir" - with your first ft/lb comparison, 63/56 is 1.125. A 12.5% increase in energy. That's a statistically significant difference. "Pardon my insolence, please."
I shot my 20 ga. shotgun and determined it's maximum effective range.
I changed ammo and increased it's max effective range by 20%
WOW! 20%! that's a lot!
Except what that really meant was it went from 25 yards to 30 yards. Not that much.
Sometimes the percentages don't mean a lot.
40 FPS added velocity is more relevant than 7 more EFP
@@PaulHarrell "Oh hell yeah! Paul Harrell spoke directly to me! Sure it was to chastise my insolence, and remind me that he's got a 20 gauge shotgun and I don't. But, still, he spoke to me!" My life is complete. I shall run out and grab a case of Pop Tarts.
Seriously, I really enjoy your videos. I watch them all the way through.
You remind me of my slightly irascible grandfather. He was born and raised in Louisiana ("Sportsman's Paradise") and took me shooting and hunting (along with fishing) since I was a young boy.
I'm 62 this year, so naturally you're probably too young to be my grandfather, I guess. But, still the spirit of the "old-timers" is strong in you.
Also, 10% is considered statistically significant. lol This is the part where my grandfather would send me to my grandmother, so I could pester her for awhile.
Percentages can be useful, but they can also be extremely misleading if not applied with proper context. for instance, if you sell a hundred units of a product and one of them happens to be defective, that's a 1% failure rate. However if you sell a million of them with a 1% failure rate, that means ten thousand units failed. with the 1/100 failure, that particular customer might be ensconced and never return, but most other people would probably write that it off as unfortunate fluke. However ten thousand people complaining about a defective product is absolutely going to make headlines and become a big problem for the manufacturer. Same percentage, drastically different result.
Misused percentages are also a great tool for propagandists. _"Gun violence incidents doubled in Podunkville Wisconsin after the city approved a new gun range! Clearly that place is a bad influence and a training ground for villains. We should close it down right now!"_ Then you read the details and learn that one criminal was shot and killed during a robbery last year, and this year there were two hunting accidents. 200% is a legitimate number to apply, but it's not the significant data point that sensationalist twit would have you believe.
Technically that's not true. Running the individual EFP calculations for each shot using the chronograph numbers through a 2-Sample T-Test, with a 99% confidence interval and a resulting P-Value of 0.01, indicate that there is no statistically significant difference between the EFP numbers in the first chrono test. Likewise, analysis of the velocity numbers results in a P-Value of 0.03, also indicating that there was no statistically significant difference in the velocity numbers.
Sorry for the nerdy stuff, but this is what I do for work and I enjoy figuring this stuff out.
Edit: Statistical significance is determined based on a thorough analysis of multiple data points over a larger sample size using various hypothesis testing tools. It can never be accurately determined using a sample size of 1 and is never based on a flat arbitrary percentage such as 10%. That's not how statistics work.
Edit 2: Fixed a typo.
Mark Twain had something to say about statistics. 😎
I already have a pocket gun. I just came here to spend some time with you, Paul. Miss you buddy!
Same
RIP Paul, you have taught this girl a ton of stuff about guns and ammo. You'll be missed!!!
The first murder trial I was ever able to sit in and observe, involved the .25 ACP. Person A was attacking person B with a crowbar. Person B shot person A in the chest twice at a range of about 3 feet. Person A staggered back a few feet, fell to the ground and expired. It was determined to be a case of self defense and person B was acquitted.
The first murder trial I observed was the murder of a law enforcement office on Christmas eve in the subway (not the sandwich shop). It was a sad event, but it does show that even the .22 LR can be fatal.
@@k_enn Any gun with a power over 50ft/lbs is lethal if aimed at the heart or skull
@@ayugoslav5554 Only 29ftlbs of energy need to punch a hole in the avg human skull, so you are correct.
I always carry by backup .22lr with CCI Velocitors or Punch.
Vasily Blokhin executed 7000 people over the course of 28 days using exclusively Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistols.
Sounds like Person A died of natural causes to me. A couple of chest shots & you die seems natural.
I recall what an old guy once told me,,,'everyone laughs at a 25 acp,until one is pointed at them. I really enjoy your videos. Thanks.
I'll bet that applies to a 22 as well.
I keep watching his videos. I can't bear the fact that he won't make new ones. RIP Paul!
Roy is getting the hang of it. I miss Paul, too, but I've got Roy's back.
.25 auto carries Paul Harrell for personal protection
W.T.F. Are you taking about? You are not funny.
@@johnrobinson7242 who asked you? How pathetic can you be, bitching on a 1 year old comment lol get a life
L0l
Great video. My dad (a WW2 US Navy frogman) carried a Beretta .25. It saved his life three times one of which also saved my daughter's life. Thanks for doing such informative content.
Y'know, if you have the time, I'd be interested in hearing those stories.
@@vlogfriendsutopia same here ! I was USN.
Thx 4 commenting. I also would like to hear the stories
First instance. 1991 Portland, Oregon. Two individuals had broken into the trunk of his car outside a motel room. They popped it with a crowbar. The trunk lid squeaked loudly upon opening so he was alerted to the crime. He exited the room where he was confronted by the guy with the crowbar. They demanded his wallet he produced the Beretta instead. End of story.
Second instance. 1995 Latrobe, Pennsylvania.
My daughter was playing in a kiddie pool upon hearing screaming my Dad went outside to discover a gray fox attacking her viciously. He attempted to stop the attack but they both had been bitten several times. He used the .25 to shoot the fox hitting it twice out of three. My daughter was badly injured 19 stitches to left ankle and 21 in left hand. Pennsylvania state game commission sent the fox's head to a lab in Cresson PA. Rabid results. Both had been given the abdominal injections prior to receiving results.
Third instance. 1997 Stahlstown, Pennsylvania While attempting to intervene in a domestic dispute at one of my folks rental properties he was approached by the male who had seriously beaten his spouse and was flailing a chain wrench. Dad was able to subdue the bastard and held him at gunpoint until PA state police arrived.
👍👍I appreciate your videos
Back again to watch in 2024. One of my favorite videos on YT.
Godspeed to you Paul and family.
I find myself doing the same thing
Same with me. God bless Paul.
Really miss this guy! 🙏 R.I.P. Paul💐
During my 33 year career in a NE urban wasteland Police Dept I saw quite a few homicide victims over the years shot with either a 22LR or a 25 ACP.. Killed just as dead as someone shot with a 45. They are not toys for sure and a pocket .22 or 25 sure beats the .45 you left home because it was too bulky to have with you at that particular moment..
Very good point, sir.
I can’t even begin to tell you how many people got hit with a .380 in Birmingham, AL but .25 ACP was very common too. They seem to like the smaller calibers in the ghetto since they’re so much easier to hide.
Agree, but with the 21A .22LR you can only count on the gun to function on the first shot, maybe.
Agree with everything you said!! Rule one in a gun fight...Have a gun.....But that is why we also call it "stopping power"...and not "killing power"....A drugged up scumbag coming at you with a knife will end up just as dead if shot with 22/25.....but you will end up fighting him until he drops....and maybe drops you too.....But any gun is better than no gun.....
Thanks for your comment! I'm retired from a full adventures street and outdoor life style. I worked in the college police dept., trained in the military, and outdoored in some tough dangerous places. In fact, it was either 22's or a 25 caliber I was carrying to defend my self when dangerous circumstances struke., and each in turn did their job. The 25 was what I had with me when I faced 3 street thugs, and they each belived their life was in danger when I pointed it at them. One 22 was used in a shoot out, and the other to kill a large German Shepard dog who was attacking me. I have had the necessary gun training, and shoot or pull out my guns in the proper motions and battery, with the will to use them, if necessary. The thugs or animals see and recognize those motions as bad news for them, and then knowing the gun is there for selfdefense, it;s time for them to hit the road. The Biggest Thing, is having a gun wity you!
My grandpa was a police officer in Nashville TN in the 1960's through the late 1980's. Believe it or not there were some really dangerous areas in the city back then. For most of that time his service weapon was a 4 inch 38 special but he also had a Beretta Jetfire in 25 acp in his front pocket everywhere he went. He used to tell me that the Beretta and a speed loader were almost the same size and weight. He died when I was young and I don't remember all of the stories he told me clearly but I do remember one about the Beretta stopping a snake that was going to bite him. There were some about the Jetfire protecting him from criminals as well. I have carried a Jetfire 25 many times and I used it to stop a pack of dogs from mauling me once. The little 25 pistols are tiny and can always be on your person. They also have way less recoil than small 380 pistols and can be fired very accurately and quickly. It would not be wise to underestimate them.
God Bless his memory and his service.
Thank you vey much for sharing your memories of your Grandfather with us and your experiences based on what you did with what you learned from him!
The little Bichons didn't know who they were messing with!!😭🙃😉
I might be wrong but Didn't Browning invent the 25 ACP vest pocket to protect himself from coyotes. I'm sure I heard it watching a documentary years ago.
The final ten minutes of the video speaking to us without an edit. Well done Sir. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Paul is a talented speaker even if he is too critical on himself.
Right? He calls the wrap-up at the end "the boring part where I talk" but that's what I come to his videos for! I appreciate that he records his testing methods and results (because a report without data is just a marketing gimmick) but I'm here for his analysis and opinions. I don't always agree, but I've gotten used to being wrong on occasion. (grin)
I wonder, if I went to him to have my teeth cleaned, if he'd explain some point of ballistics to me while I'm in the chair for an extre $20.
My Daughter thinks he should be doing audio books.
I once saw Paul shirtless and now I’m gay.
@@daveh7720 "On the left bicuspid I'm going to use Kolorz white box mint-flavored medium grit polishing compound. On the right bicuspid I'm going to use Gelato white box cherry-flavored extra coarse grit polishing compound. Is that enough of a difference to make a difference? You be the judge...."
@@445supermag That would be incredible. Or have him narrate for a PBS documentary about the old west.
God Bless you Paul!
You and yours are in my Prayers. Love ya man!
as a non gun owner, I greatly appreciate these presentations. a consistent format with regularly repeated philosophy of facts, honesty and integrity. an opportunity to listen in on an expert's viewpoint and critical thought. and no BS personal politics or extreme egos.
Why don't you have a gun? If it is so distasteful, you can always oil it up, wrap it up and hoard it away in some dark, dry place...
Paul And Hickok 45 are the only firearm channels I’ll watch.
You should of least have a 22.
@@williamsporing1500 Kentucky Ballistics is a good channel for information and has great humor
Like none?
Heard the news today....Godspeed, Mr. Harrell. Every video I watched was excellent. Sad there will be no more.
Fortunately, his brother will probably continue making videos and he's very knowledgeable as well.
I came to essentially the same conclusions back in the mid 80's. I was looking for a really small hideout gun in an employment setting where I simply could not be seen to be armed. I bought a Beretta 950 Jetfire in .25 ACP. I was working as a paramedic in the inner city projects, and felt that if I was going to have a fist fight with a junkie trying to attack me for my drug box, I'd rather fight a guy who had 8 quarter inch holes in him at the start. We wore flight suits at the time, and I carried the Beretta in the front chest flap pocket. Nobody ever "made me" as armed.
The little Beretta was unfailingly reliable, and more accurate than it had any right to be. I decided in advance that if I had to shoot, my aiming point would be the face below the brow line. I'd seen enough handgun rounds strike the skull, and then skitter off the side of the head just under the skin to aim any higher. A trauma surgeon I worked with told me, "they don't call it the cranial vault for nothing." Even though my 950 technically could hold 9 rounds, I found it more reliable loaded with 8. I never had to shoot anyone with my little .25, but I did have to pull it once in the exact scenario I had envisioned. The sight of it changed my knife wielding attacker's mind and he ran away. I considered myself very lucky.
I hated paying the price, even back then for .25 ammo, but figured it was a small price to pay for reliability. I got a Beretta 21 in .22 LR, reasoning that I could use it for cheap practice, using only the SA trigger and it would be "close enough" as a stand-in for my 950. While I did save the price of the gun in cheap practice, I had enough malfunctions with the 21 that I would never have trusted it enough to carry it. It would appear that not much has changed in 40 years. Like you, I get good reliability in my larger .22 autos. Today the smallest auto pistol I own is my Glock 42, which has been a very satisfactory handgun. There are times that I'd like to have another 950 for old times sake, but when you find them these days, they are a bit expensive.
Thank you for your story. Very much enjoyed the lesson.
What a glorious day at the range that was, we miss you man!
Paul you are too cool to lose and just heard you have the C word and want you to know I love you and will be praying for you and keep on keeping on please
58 year old new gun owner here. I randomly came across this gentleman and am impressed. Will continue to follow.
Gun Fighting Rules
1. Have a gun.
The 25 acp satisfies that
A story about me while serving in combat in the Vietnam theater, 1967 through1969. In 1967, I was wounded by an AK 7.62X39 and spent a couple of weeks recovery in Cameron Bay. I got back with my group in Thailand at a party, there was a beautiful Thai girl, There was a bounty on me. She wanted the bounty and pulled a Beretta Model 20 25 ACP pistol, I reached for the pistol and was shot in the abdomen, I had to be helped out of the house, and it took 3 weeks to recover. I have been shot 3 times and the 25 ACP was by fare the most painful.
Thank you for taking the time to re-hash the .22/.25 comparison. If my life was dependant on reliability, the .25 would be my choice. Most likely also would be used in very close "save your life" distances or "get off me" use. As you pointed out, nowadays the .380 is available in pistols almost the same size as .25's, so I would opt for the .380 for close encounters. As as an arthritic senior citizen, the recoil of a .380 would be substantial, I figure that if my life is in danger, that first shot may be all that is needed to reduce the threat. I can live with that.
I enjoy your videos, even if they re-hash old stories. Makes my day.
Hi Tony, my wife is 72 and losing her grip strength. She recently switched to the S&W 9mm EZ. She says it recoils softly in her hand and it fits better than many other options. S&W also makes the EZ in .380 ACP. I can hold them both comfortably. They are both easy to rack, which was my wife's problem.
If you were in a life or death situation, I think that the adrenaline rush would overcome any fear you have despite your arthritis, of the recoil of even a 45 ACP. Of course Target shooting practice would be an issue. But you could use a smaller caliber gun I suppose for muscle memory. But any gun is better than no gun when you need it. One 22 round straight into the eyeball of a perpetrator will get the job done.
I have a Beretta bobcat in 22lr. If I’m going with a gun that small I see no problems with using 22lr for a self defense pocket gun. I’ve fired close to 1000 rounds through it with a handful of failures. However almost all of those failures came from bulk pack ammo. I only had two stove pipes from CCI mini mags of which is the last 800 rounds fired through the gun. However those last two failures were through a gun that hadn’t been cleaned in almost 500 rounds.
I’d say as long as you keep it regularly maintained, a gun in 22lr will serve you just fine.
I got my father set up with 22Tcm doublestack 1911, as he has had both his wrists fused as he wore the joints completely out. Its all he can do to rack the slide and its only a 7lb spring. But I know he will have enought to protect himself in the event of an emergency. Its very low recoil so he should be OK there.
Finding a rim fire cartridge that produces consistent results and being able to malfunction clearance sounds like a better plan.
Godspeed Brother… i identity as an RPG… Re-Play-Groupie. You made so many awesome videos. You will be missed forever.
Another great video by the master himself.
I work at a gun store in Kentucky, and I don’t see a lot of 25acp coming around. But history has shown that center fire rounds are much more reliable, and that’s a major factor.
Having said that, for self defense I’d take either of these over a stick I picked up off the ground.
Thank you sir!
History has also shown that cheaply loaded crap is cheaply loaded crap so take it all with a grain of salt. Most people buy 22s for plinking and therefore buy cheaply loaded crap.
25 is pretty hard to find, which leads to believe that often if you can find some it's probably cheaply loaded crap.
I do believe there is a fair variety of very reliable 22s on the market and the availability of quality ammo probably puts the 22 above the 25 as far as an overall reliability rating when combining a pistol and ammo in today's real world...
@@beargillium2369 "puts the 22 above the 25 as far as an overall reliability" Except the 22 malfunctioned multiple time, the 25 not once. Not too reliable to me. When I pull the trigger, it is for a reason. Not firing could mean the difference between life and oh well.
Facts
@@beargillium2369I don’t get your logic. I’d assume the few .25’s out there would be better quality. And centerfire goes bang more reliably than rimfire
@@BobC59 there's your problem: you're assuming.
Your video was accurate and non biased. The 25ACP wins the day and yes quality 50FMJ is the correct bullet.
Always the best when it comes to offering information to your viewers.
You have made many people much more responsible & knowledgeable gun owners.
Thank you Paul, you have done your service thrice over.
Yes sir, I agree & appreciate Paul’s efforts to educate me, as I try to be a responsible gun owner.
Am I the only one that can watch Paul’s content as almost like a guided meditation? I learn something, perhaps even about myself, and feel confident and relaxed by the end. Thanks, Paul!
Another difference you didn't point out between this and your last version - the video / camera quality is much improved. Thank you for your dedication to the multiple crafts that go into making these presentations.
I had reliability issues with my Beretta 21A in .22 Long Rifle, i.e., failures to feed. What I did was to polish the feed ramp to an almost mirror finish, and also the lower half of the mouth of the chamber, careful not to bevel it, but just to do away with the roughness it had. It worked, and now the failures to feed are a thing of the past. I hope sharing my experience will help others. Thank you for your great presentations.
Paul, although the 22vs 25 debate is as old as the hills and has been beaten to death, the way you presented it, the way you compared them and the way in which you tested them was brilliant. BTW, I get a kick out of your mannerisms, way of speaking and expressing yourself - don't apologize for the way you are. I also believe that because of today's world when many people who never would have considered getting a gun before are now getting them, this comparison was very spot on. Just figured I'd give you my opinion - for what that's worth.
2 cents I've heard 👍🇺🇸🦅
yeah his practical comparisons provide much more applicable information that data sheets on a forum
I can live with single take monologs. You are an intelligent, well spoken individual. You are not reading off a teleprompter. I appreciate the "fireside chat" endings. Well done.
I was about to comment about Gun Control Act 1968 having an effect of the decline in the 1970s of the .25acp so I'm glad you covered that. Always happy to see the baby Browning make an appearance, even in a non - firing role. I remember those, I'm old.
My ex-step grandmother had a Baby Browning. It was VERY accurate, despite its teeny sights, and reliable. I would have liked to have had it, but "ex" and all stopped that dream.
I own one, passed down from my grand dad, and an Ortges.... great firearms.
I got one of nthe stainless steel copies, a Fraiser. nice little gun
@@webwildcatting used to see tables full of those Ortges at gun shows.
My elderly mother has one that rides in a specially designed pocket on the inside of her purse, and has since way way before the current "easy to carry' days.
I found this very insightful. The significantly better reliability of the .25 ACP justified why I would also pick it over a .22 LR. If the gun fails to fire when you need it, nothing else will matter.
Its nice to see the 25 get a little love. I have a liliput from 1926 and that old girl is still a great shooter (for a nearly 100 year old pistol)
Though not a scientific metric, I noticed the meat target moved considerably more with the 25. Thanks for your videos.
Thanks Paul!
I've owned over the years, 3 21A's. So in a sample of 3, to a gun they all functioned extremely well with the CCI mini mags. Almost all other ammo I ran through them was a crap shoot. One thing I found in common with all of them was they were sensitive to dirty chambers.
You are a better shot than me. No way I would attempt to shoot that little tiny gun into a space that small from that distance. Keep up the good work bro!
Thank you for such a comprehensive comparison of theses tiny calibers.
My wife carries a 25 pocket pistol manufactured by Taurus. Some say junk. However, she is very proficient with it and very rarely a malfunction. Hers shoots a very good group to the right of the bull and as you said has overcome that by aiming left. She also shoots fmj ammo. She just won't carry anything else. Which is a lesson in, carry what's good for you. Not someone else.
I like how his videos are long and not crazy loud with distracting music. I often have them playing in the background when I'm trying to sleep. I don't sleep well and it and a fan helps drown out the tinnitus.
My wife just inherited a little .25 browning hooker gun. The same kind that were banned from import in the 60s. It's got the fake mother of pear grips and stainless slide. Her grandpa was a wild dude in his younger days and he won it in a poker game about 60 years ago when he was in the military.
That is a family heirloom now.
I have an old antique prostitute dagger. It's pretty neat. It has a spike blade ( like a spike but triangular on all sides). It cannot cut. Very French
Paul's approach to all of what he does is so practical it is hard to figure why he is not not at 1 million subs.
Thank you for the remake. This has sufficient information for making a choice between calibers 22 and 25 in pistols the size of your Beretta 21A. The meat target performance was better than I expected, and ten-yard accuracy demonstrated that neither cartridge fired in small pocket pistols is totally hopeless.
Aim for the face, they won't come back for seconds.....groin would also work, and could be done with out raising a thugs suspicion....
God Bless you Brother Paul! You take EXCELLENT care of us. This is a very good comparison and information we don’t deserve this much work! Thank you ❤️🖖🏼🇺🇸
Interesting subject as usual. For those who find the chronograph work tedious and skip ahead to the chart, you're missing some significant malfunctions in the ammo which could figure GREATLY in your choices!
The cronograph sections keep me thinking. I try to see how close I can come just doing the math in my head.
Honestly, I was pissed by the flaws of your first video. I appreciate you recognizing the need to revisit. You regained my trust with the new fair comparison.
Paul, I must say your presentations are next to none. You truly are a master of what you do. Thank you for the great informative content.
My 1908 .25 is wonderful concealed. I have a 1914 holster with a lock trigger thing that prevents the pistol from coming out accidentally. Made for a 1903 but will fit the 1908. It's all shot placement. 3-25ft average gun fight. I feel more than safe out with the family with a vest pocket. Cheers from Chicago. Rip paul
Great comparison!I have a Colt junior in 25acp that I use as a back up sometimes.I find that it is also just a fun little gun to shoot.
I often slip my colt 1908 vest pocket onto my jacket for something to have
@@imthatguy1878 so do I, only it's a Baby Browning .
Bought a Jimenez Arms JA-25 .25acp pistol at a pawn shop for cheap. The gun is surprisingly reliable if you keep it maintained and lubricated. I carry it as a backup gun in a pocket holster along with my Makarov.
I love your videos, Paul. Best comparisons out there. Your target mediums are better than other channels using ballistic gel
categorically so. There are tons of YT channels using clear ballistic gel. NONE of them seem to realize that this medium IS NOT comparable to ordnance gel. Guns & Cars has a channel where he demonstrates multiple times the differences, sometimes large, between bullet performance in organic ordnance gel and clear ballistics synthetic gel. in addition, the meat target shows the effect of energy; ballistic gel tends not to. Those who hunt with handguns know that higher power leads to quicker incapacitation and this fact is even codified in the laws that may prohibit hunting with certain cartridges like 9x19 entirely. most hunters would consider 9x19 inhumane to hunt with because of its slowness to incapacitate vis a vis a cartridge generating far more power even at the same bullet weight and bullet profile.
Damn Paul! I'm seriously regretting not buying tickets to fly up to meet you during this and other shows / events... IF I find out you are going to show up at any other, please let me and the rest of us know! This may sound somewhat silly but all the experience and info transcends (and will continue to do so) generations... Both my brother and I have run our kids through most of your videos.. We grew up with a combat Vietnam Vet father and were loading custom rounds with oversight from way back! (Even if we weren't allowed to shoot them at that time).. That being said, you sir have been a fountain of knowledge and testing.. THANK YOU, Paul!
I have 2 CZ 45, 25 ACP mouse guns, and they aren't as small as a browning baby or a colt vest pocket, but the fact that they are DAO and have never malfunctioned means if you have one stashed in a pocket you never have to wonder if it is cocked, or if it will function (at least going by the 2 I have) and that means a lot more to me than if I have a few more foot pounds of energy.
.25acp might not always solve a problem, but it's not a terrible way to introduce yourself to a problem. Bad guys often have considerably less fight in them, after they've had a few holes punched in them.
Just one to the head. There you dont need more than 25 acp.
@Gieszkanne I'm 6'5". Most folk are shorter than I am by a bit, and angles matter. There's a big open hole in the scull behind the nose, and right behind that is the apricot sized doodly-doo that runs the basic CNS. I call it, "The Snot Locker".
One round of damn near anything, right in the snot locker, will usually end a problem right freaking now.
Great point you're making. I like it. A lot.
I do love a Do-Over that makes a valid point. Thank you, Paul and company.
Thanks for leaving the chronograph.
Definitely worth watching.
I did not realize the gun act from the 1960s was as harmful as it was.
In my experience .22 caliber ammo is picky with the gun your using. You have to try different ammo and find what works best in that gun. Paul started out with the Remington Gold that did not work well. Next the CCI mini-mag which also had a few hick-ups. Then Paul used CCI Stinger which appeared to work flawlessly. Myself, I tried different ammo till I found what shoots best and consistently. For my Ruger LCP2 .22, I find that Armscor 36 grain HP runs great. Also, Aguila 38 grain HP runs great. My gun did not like the Aguila 40 grain RN. Also did not like the bulk Federal ammo RN. I think .22 is a great conceal carry option "once you know" what runs good in your particular gun. Keep them cleaned and oiled. Thanks for the comparison. Great video
Regarding your dramatic pauses poached from William Shatner, that's superior by far to the alternatives--"Um, ah, ooh, um, um, um, ah..."
Thanks for remaking the 22lr vs 25acp in Pocket Pistols video.
It was great meeting Paul at the gun show. I had no idea he'd be there. I'd been at the hospital for days and was really tired but had to go. I'm very glad I did lots to learn. Just had to say, thanks!
Personally, I’d carry a .25 if I had too. I can get it easily in my location and I don’t mind the cost of the ammo if I’m just going to use it for carry with occasional range time. Plus, I just like the more obscure calibers. The “increased” reliability is nice too.
My thoughts follow similar lines. It seems like an upgrade from 22 in significant ways and the price doesn't matter very much if used as you said.
I too like the obscure calibers. I have a .32 s&w revolver in layaway right now.
@@timt8029 If you want too, check out our channel. We shoot oddball stuff all the time. I’ve got 24 and 32 gauge shotguns, and we do stuff with 10, 16, and 28 quite a bit.
Written AND directed by Paul.
Man of many hats 👒 👏
Paul, a lot of effort ,you put into this excellent video, including the ballistic math. Thanks. 🤠
I own a Beretta 950 Jet Fire for 30+ years. It is still my back up pistol. It was referred to me by someone who used to worked for the highway patrol for reliability. The reason why I never used a .22 caliber pocket rocket is exactly what you have stated. The chance of a miss fire when it mattered the most. Thank you for showing the difference with these pocket pistols.
Thank you for being an informative individual providing presentations in this format. We have all determined that guns go bang and bullets tend to move rather quickly, but actually having the data presented in a professional and realistic format is fantastic
Good to see your all still doing well and going strong
I owned and enjoyed both of these guns. I agree that the 25 was more reliable. I had a number of problems with the 22, failure to feed, failure to extract, stove pipe, failure to go into battery. A gunsmith friend of mine told me to lubricate it heavily for the first few hundred rounds. Worked like a charm. After that I shot it without incident though I still preferred the 25. The same pistol is also available in 32ACP
What make models?
Leave to Paul Harrell to remake a video that he had previously put out because he found a way to improve upon it or provide us with additional details. The only thing I'm missing is the continuing educational credits after learning yet something new from his productions. The best part is the instructions and knowledge are free. Keep them coming!
One thing also about the .22: the bullets are not seated in the case as well as the .25 because the .22 is a heel based bullet. This makes it easier for oil to seep in and foul the powder charge. This is a consideration for a gun that will be carried a lot and only fired infrequently and likely neglected by most carriers.
I will carry what is available and train for malfunctions and so on and so forth. If it puts holes on the perp, then its better than a stick or cane that I walk with. Thank you Paul for a deep understanding of what small calibers can do.
Thanks Paul! You are absolutely a staple in outdoors/ shooting world, never fail to learn something from your videos
Skip ahead in one of Paul's videos? Never! Every second is priceless.
Finally some more pocket pistol informative video 👍🏻
I very much enjoy the ballistics analogies and perspective of your videos ( which I just discovered) and look hopefully will meet you in in your show in a few weeks. While you clearly noted this was not a recommendation of either caliber, I will just add a personal bias. That said and admitting that I am an old gun guy(75) … a few observations and admitted prejudices:
- FTFs/stovepipes with rimfire cartridges were Identified and typical… I would not deliberately ‘carry a .22 as a defensive weapon in any situation
- Exclusive of any comparison of calibers and stopping power whether a .25 ACP or .44 mag, or suitability as a carry CC sidearm , the prime directive remains shot placement
- I was taught by one of the finest defensive shooters that I ever met that “ the best defensive handgun you can carry” … is the one you have when TSHTF. For many years I have dropped a Beretta Jetfire .25 semi auto in my picket when walking the dog or non event going’s on. One saved my life with a crackhead trying to pull me out of the car and my daughter had to shoot a pit bull that cornered her. Would a heavier caliber been preferred.. bell he’s, but it’s what I had.
Can you tell more about the pitbull incident? Was it immediately incapacitated or just wounded and stopped being agressive?
I’ve been a viewer for many years. I remember your earlier mentioned video on this topic, having watched it a few years ago. I think it’s important that you’ve covered this topic again. For one reason…there are thousands of people each year entering their retirement years, many of whom may decide to carry personal protection for the first time. And a percentage of these people may have limitations which preclude their ability to use higher caliber firearms. And I agree with you on your choice of the .25 after having many malfunctions using .22 in small handguns. Thanks, Paul.
Knowing that Paul could take you out with a .22 or a .25 just let's me know he is the wrong man to mess with. He is truly the definition of FAFO. Thanks as always Paul.
7 ft/lbs is 1/9th of 63, 1/8th of 56. That's 11.1%-12.5% more. You said that at the velocities you got, 40 fps was fairly significant, 40 of 800 is 1/20, or 5%, or 1/19 for the lower velocity, which is like 5.2% I think. Which is easily greater than 2 times (the % difference for velocity).
Semper Fi, devil dog! Love the content
Increasing velocity makes a lot more difference than increasing EFP.
The original video of .22vs.25 was the first video I saw on this channel several years ago. I don't own a .25 anymore but still interesting to watch.
Always the best, most informative firearm channel to be found. Thank you, and the crew, for the hard work.
I live in Polk County, Florida (home of Sheriff Grady Judd (for those who don't know him, look him up. It's worth the effort.)) and every time you say you'll be in Polk County I get excited, and then you say Oregon. Have a good time and thanks for the great videos.
I'm glad this was a new vidoe not a re-hash of his previous (really old) 22 versus 25 videos. Both are better than a stick when used with proper ammo in well maintained and reliable firearms. The 25 auto will definitely be more reliable in general in pocket pistols due to being centerfire.
Exactly the testing I was interested in. Thanks.
Great stuff. If I understand then it would appear that it was mostly a situation of not enough of a difference to make a difference between the two calibers until reliability came into play. And then 25 walked all over 22, at least in this demonstration. And that would tip the difference for me as well. Great presentation, as always.
Thanks Paul 👍
Great video. Thanks Paul !
I have found a pitted barrel in a Colt 1908 vs. one with a mint barrel that really impacts penetration. Yes, you could not test two guns that were better than your two identical firearms. Great review. I appreciate your professional dedicated work.
Wat
@@DinoNucci probably so worn out that the tolerances are opened up to where it doesn't build as much pressure in the case. It may just be enough to matter when you're talking about .25 acp.
@@andycraig6905 ty for translating to English
Yet another great presention, Paul. Thanks !
Thank-you for continuing your excellent content, Paul! The fact that you've improved upon a previous video shows your respect for your audience and your dedication to your craft. 10+ years of videos, all created to inform, educate, enlighten and entertain those of us who prefer content quality over window-dressing and theatrics. Your experience and achievements speak for themselves; your refusal to use sensational and hyperbolic speech shows your seriousness; your pursuit of truth without jingoism or screaming obscenities shows your integrity, which has never faltered.
People wiser than myself have called your channel "the thinking man's firearms channel" with good reason. Please keep it up!
Thanks for the video Paul
Great video Paul thank you for taking the time to make this good info 👍👍
Congrats on the gundie nomination! Best of luck
Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say
Thank you Professori Paul for such sharing of your knowledge and experience. We ALWAYS learn something interesting and useful.
I love these presentations so much. Always great info and interesting considerations.
I was looking at those guns at a gun show 25 years ago. I asked how much the ammo was and .25 was pretty pricy and I had a .22 rifle so I got the .22. Even if I wanted to carry it, I never truly trusted that Beretta. It jammed all the time, mostly failure to eject. I would clean it thoroughly, and try different ammo, but never found the perfect ammo. To me, the point of impact was a secondary issue and was never researched, but it was all over the place brand to brand. I always suspected the .25 would have been better, but when you are 20, dumb and cheap, lessons are plentiful! I finally sold it last year to get a .22 revolver that can chew up cheap .22.
Thanks for the awesome content.
As always, packed with accurate information. I always refer newbies or fellow enthusiasts to your channel for knowledgeable, unbiased info.
Thank you.
Back in 1982 I was just a kid. My uncle bought me an FIE Titan in .25 caliber. We never had a single jam over many years. That always impressed me, because the price of the Titan .25 plus a box of ammo was under $100 including tax back then.
Great comparison.👍 Old time vest pocket pistol wisdom used to be “own both, practice with the cheap .22, but carry then.25 for reliability.” Your test bears that out. I have a Phoenix that handles Stingers, but many mouse guns hate that extra length case. Anything I carry as a pocket backup is going to be tested for reliability, same as my primary .45.
I have a Ruger SR22 that I've fired a good bit, and it's never had a malfunction that I can remember. I also have a Phoenix in .25 acp and I can't remember having a malfunction with it, but I haven't fired it that much. A plus for the .25 is that it's reloadable, but is probably still cost prohibited at today's prices. The smallest caliber that I carry is a .32 acp and that's only in t-shirt weather. I carry a .380 Taurus TCP a lot that has a laser on it. As always, a very good presentation. Thanks.